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Rahm on This Week:
STEPHANOPOLOUS: The President has ruled out prosecutions of CIA officials who believed they were following the law. Does he believe the officials who devised the policies should be immune from prosecution?
RAHM: Yeah, what he believes is, look, as you saw in that statement he wrote. And I think, just take a step back. That he came up with this, and he worked on this for four weeks. Wrote that statement Wednesday night, after he made his decision, and dictated what he wanted to see and then Thursday morning I saw him in the office, he was still editing it. He believes that people in good faith were operating with the guidance they were provided. They shouldn’t be prosecuted.
STEPHANOPOLOUS: But what bout those who devised the policies?
RAHM: But those who devised the policies –he believes that they were — should not be prosecuted either. And it’s not the place that we go — as he said in that letter, and I really recommend that people look at that full statement. Not the letter, the statement. In that second paragraph: This is not a time for retribution. It’s a time for reflection. It is not a time to use our energy and our time in looking back, and in a sense of anger and retribution. We have a lot to do to protect America. What people need to know, this practice and technique, we don’t useany more. He banned it.
Is that truly what the administration thinks? That people who want to see those who illegally led the country down the road of torture held to account are simply "looking back" in "anger" and "retribution"? Fifty percent of the country favor such investigations, including 69% of Democrats and a majority of independents. Is Rahm saying that President Obama believes they’re nothing more than an angry, vindictive mob, and that nobody could possibly have a rational basis for believing that our laws should be enforced?
Manfred Nowak, the United Nations top torture investigator, says that treaties entered into by the United States require criminal investigations:
The United States, like all other states that are part of the U.N. convention against torture, is committed to conducting criminal investigations of torture and to bringing all persons against whom there is sound evidence to court.
How does Rahm rationalize the President’s stated goal to "restore our moral standing" in the world with thumbing our noses at the international agreements we’ve entered into? Is there an "except when we don’t feel like it" clause?
The United States has 5% of the world’s population, but nearly 25% of its prisoners. There is something terribly inconsistent about a Senior Administration official like Rahm Emanuel insisting that an elite few should not be subject to our laws, and that people who take issue with this have no higher motive than counterproductive rage.
Sign the petition telling Attorney General Eric Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate torture here.
179 Comments
DIGG IS OPEN – and commented there.
Here is my comment at the DIGG:
pup34
Thank you.
Dugg.
Pups, if you leave a comment at the DIGG, even a one-liner, it adds one to the total. (and a thumbs-up at other comments adds another…hint,hint)
dugg and added a comment:
Sign the FireDogLake petition to Attorney General Eric Holder to appoint a Special Prosecutor to investigate.
http://action.firedoglake.com/page/s/Prosecutor
Thanks, greenwarrior! 9 comments now, and lots of thumbs-up for each.
I added thumbs-up for everybody.
i stayed up all last night reading all the torture posts. it doesn’t happen often.
the last time was to see if franken was going to win on election night and the time before that was many, many years ago when someone told me about pnac and i stayed up all night researching it on the computer.
so what’s the real reason that the current den of foxes are trying to protect the monsters that came before them?
There’s lots more to this than we know and we’d better start figuring it out if we’re going to have any country left.
Hell the wingnuts took Clinton to the mat over a bl*wjob! And now we can’t touch them for torture.
It doesn’t compute.
1. Wingnuts will fight to win at all costs even over a blowjob.
2. Many people think “Protecting the country is good, even if it involves torture.”
3. Plenty of Democrats and most of the media supported torture.
“There is something terribly inconsistent about a Senior Administration official like Rahm Emanuel insisting that an elite few should not be subject to our laws, and that people who take issue with this have no higher motive than counterproductive rage.”
I think it’s entirely consistent with the neo-aristocratic theory of governance. Does Obama agree? Harder to say. Krawk!
Now, we make him do it.
Now, we make him do it.
Ladies and gentlemen, we have a winner. “Now is not the time” doesn’t mean “never, ever.” I’d like to see DoJ cleaned up a bit before rolling out the arrest warrants for Rove, Yoo, Cheney, Bush, et al. There’s room enough on the ranch down in Paraguay for all of them if the word got out, and right now the word would get out right quick.
Yes, let us MAKE him do it. This is far from the final word, more likely it is just the beginning.
No, this is a time for restoring the rule of law and restoring us as a nation of laws that we abide by. That “reflection” is not “retribution,” Mr. President and Rahm Emanuel, it is necessary contrition and justice.
We do have a lot to do to protect America. We now have even more to do to protect America due to our past actions by a select few. Movement towards addressing historical missteps of justice will “possibly” begin to build protection. Moving forward within the context of justice in regards to torture is an act of national security.
The reason we signed on to such international treaties was that we realized it protected our military. Addressing the historical crimes will protect our nation. Finally, we must ask, are we going to be a nation that leads in the form of denial of justice or a nation that leads through an intervention of justice?
Think I need to study up on how the Allies came to the decision to hold the Nuremberg Trials. Of course, that was when the world leaders were sane (and were leaders, not dictators).
Obama is impressed with the world’s opinion of him…let’s appeal to that. I just am still baffled by his clearly illegal decision.
If it took Obama a whole month to write that statement, he had lots of time to put in a sentence saying that those who wrote the orders are not going to be charged, either. Whether he means that, or not, I don’t believe that he has the last word on whether charges will be laid if a special prosecutor gets appointed and decides that yes there will be?
Rahm’s scripted question and answer show does illustrate something important. The petitions, phone calls, etc. are having an effect. I don’t doubt that this coming week is the one in which you all must increase your demands for a special prosecutor. Rahm will be watching to see if he managed to persuade people to give up. Under stress, he was. Did you notice the tense body language and the avoidance of eye contact?
Why not send a petition to the Spanish judge? Support the efforts of the one who is trying hard to bring about charges. He must be under extreme pressure and a show of support from Americans saying thank you for your courage and determination would give him much needed positive feedback.
Research on Nuremberg will show you some things that will shock you. You know you can trust me on that..’g’. Resisting sending you links. Sane..no, not really. You only think so because history has been revised. To understand Nuremberg, you have to understand the years before WW2 and that is a long and winding road. Not a one day project! Start with when the Jews declared war on Germany in 1933. Resistance is futile..only one link today..I promise..’g’. At all times remember CR 76.
http://www.jewsagainstzionism……ishwar.cfm
Thanks for the link, bluebutterfly. It’s bookmarked for return and study of resources. That is an amazing story (reported a year before I was born). Wish I had the skills to do a diary (after lots more background work) because therein lies the deep roots of today’s and future conflicts in Palestine. It also emphasizes the very important distinction between Jews and Zionist Jews, a much neglected issue in most of the current arguments.
[Per reports, Rahm Emanuel’s father was a member of the Irgon Zionist organization - the most fanatical arm.] I have always been strongly against putting anyone in a certain category because of their bloodlines, but there is no denying that our familial conditioning greatly influences our conduct as adults. I would evaluate Rahm on the basis of his own actions – and that’s beginning to worry me…
I would not want anyone else ‘explaining’ me to others, either selling or condemning. I don’t need Rahm to explain to me something Obama wrote or said. For that matter, Rahm needs to explain himself for me. I tolerate no manipulation of my mind, either soft-sell or hard-sell.
my 2 cents.
Amazing how history goes down the memory hole, isn’t it? In this link pay attention to the number 600,000 when you find it.
***********
http://www.wintersonnenwende.c…..ecwar.html
http://archive.timesonline.co……3-08-26-07
Thanks, blue. I’m on another thread right now, will get back to you.
Thanks for all your comments at the DIGG and the thumbs-up.
Straight from the White House Chief of Staff’s mouth. America allows its leaders to get away with torture because, well, they’re the elite. It doesn’t matter that a majority of Democrats, independents and the country as a whole want investigations – they just don’t care.
Right now, I almost feel like the U.S. could do with a bit of “red flag flying here”, power-for-the-people outrage of the Bastille storming kind to shake that elite out of its complacency and arrogant belief that they’re better than us, should have different laws from us. Trouble is, you only end up swapping one elite for anotrher that way. Real revolutionary change is gradual, not the “hope from above” which Obama played on to win and which the wingnut conspiracy believers think is a prelude to a socialist takeover.
Regards, Steve
Rahm Emanuel is a dual citizen of USrael who served as a volunteer in the Israeli Defense Force. His father was a member of the Zionist Irgun terrorist cell, a predecessor of the Likud. He no doubt considers the torture of those declared to be enemies of USrael to be of the highest form of patriotism.
Right on…that is where this crap is coming from! Emanuel should be shitcanned…he is a danger to this country for his loyalty to Israeli interests over American interests!!
Future murderers, embezzlers, and rapists will be very happy with RahmObama Justice: No more looking back in anger, no more retribution, no more punishment. What’s Bernie Madoff doing in prison, anyway?
If these guys don’t get how far off course they are taking our country, they are idiots. I mean really, at what point does their covering, excusing, and declining to prosecute war criminals make them war criminals themselves?
It’s not too far a slide, Rahm. Better watch yourself.
i’m sure you will be glad to read this, via twitter today:
Is Obama essentially daring the American People to force this issue?
Is it because he’s between several rocks and hard places with regard to CIA, Military Industrial Congressional Complex, Political Donor class, etc??
Maybe even the physical threat engendered by these forces if he were to actually act upon his conscience? Or DOES he have a conscience?
Vulcan Chess doesn’t work on this one.
They did not only torture but murdered at least a million Iraqis. Jeebus, how much crime must they commit before being tried?
Putting on my rose colored glasses, if such an act is possible when dealing with a topic this vile and sordid, I see that Obama might be trying to draw a distinction between what his administration does and what a special prosecutor might decide to do.
In terms of politics, as opposed to morality, this gambit would have a lot to offer Obama.
BINGO! If Obama comes out for prosecution the Republicans will have a perfect platform for what they do best- portraying the Democrats as purely partisan in their pursuit of Bush and his cronies. It MUST come from the people. It must come from the CONGRESS! Let the courts do their job. Let the Congress do their job.
we have to hold the Ds to the same standard if we want to avoid the charge of partisanship
We have to hold them all to the fire. Let’s get a special prosecutor and start piling up the evidence. Drip-Drip Deluge.
amen!
May I suggest Marjorie Cohn. If you haven’t heard of her now is the time to find out. She represents an invaluable resource in understanding the legal aspects of what has transpired AND in could easily help form a truly effective coalition to legally pursue justice in this entire matter. Atty Cohn has extensive background on this very matter and could prove to be the resource we are all seeking to insure that law prevails over power.
Jane, is it possible to check w/ her and have a live blog on this topic?
http://www.tjsl.edu/faculty_m_cohn
Republicans will have a perfect platform for what they do best-
And you think they are not doing it now or won’t do it later, no matter what?
Certainly they will. We all know that, but the case will have been made by the Congress and the Special Prosecutor… not Obama. He can’t sacrifice the rest of our agenda on the altar of prosecuting the Bush Torturers.
Maybe if we weren’t all standing in a smoking crater where the economy used to be it would be different, but here we are. We the people have to make this happen.
LetMAKE the courts do their job.LetMAKE the Congress do their job.There isn’t that better??
We all know how to use the Internet so DO send the petition to each and every person on your email list. Post on your facebook page, do what every it takes to tell every citizen what has been done in “Their” name by Bush and company.
I could not agree more.
The Republicans will come out and say crazy shit regardless. We should not allow that fact to serve as a wall that protects them from all accountability.
I hear what you’re saying, though… but a Republican would never call for prosecution for torture, and if one did, he would be instantly smeared by his own party as “pro-terrorist.”
If it’s going to come from anywhere, it’s going to come from progressives, which almost certainly means Democrats.
steal money? go to jail
torture people? go free
Re: Comment 18
steal money? go to jail
Well, yes, for the little people. Not for the Big Bankster Boiz.
We need to promote the petition to friends and fellow citizens. the damn thing should go viral like no other… let’s go for a million or more sigs!
Sign the petition telling Attorney General Eric Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate torture here.
Already signed twice! How many more times can I sign… I have more email addys to use??
Facebook, twitter, church groups, PTA, Don’t renew your insurance unless the agent signs the petition for his/her freedom /s… EVERYWHERE!
I guess Obama has “scandal fatigue,” that infamous malady which both Congressional Dems either had, or feared getting, and MCMers* wrote and tut-tutted about over and over, that going after the miscreants of the Reagan administration would just be so unproductive and really not necessary and in, you see, really, really bad taste and the public just didn’t want to see any more scandals after Watergate….
(Well, until the Repubs went apeshit over Whitewater.)
Since Poppy Bush pardoned so many who actually should have paid for their attacks on the Constitution and the existing laws, and then the Dems just didn’t want to make any waves about it, we got the same lawbreakers as part of BushCo. Oh, and Dems standing against these people? Oh, no, no, no. Wouldn’t be “nice,” and the MCMers would attack them as being too partisan, you know. Plus, a president deserves to have the people he wants as part of his administration….
How’d that work out, eh?
Now, Obama is playing that tired and dangerous tune. Alluring, in that he won’t have to take stands for what’s right and wrong, for the Constitution, for laws. Only really little people have to follow letter and spirit of the law, right?
Craptacular.
*MCMers–Members of the Mainstream Corporate Media
There is one point on which I very strongly disagree with Rahm, and by extension, Obama: I do not, for one second, think any of the people in the highest levels of the Bush Administration who devised these policies were working “in good faith”. They wanted to follow Cheney to “the dark side”, as he announced we would have to do, and they constructed their legal house of cards to create the appearance of legality.
Question Stephanopoulus should have asked:
“And if it can be shown that these officials were not acting in good faith, what then? Should they be prosecuted?”
Who will ask this question for us?
Not only do I think that high ranking Bush officials were not acting in good faith, I most certainly am looking back in anger and I do want retribution. These monsters simply will not stop what they are doing until they are in jail. Their interpretation of a desire to “look ahead” will be that they were right and to simply bide their time until they are in power again to re-start the same atrocities and worse.
The only way to make it less likely new monsters will try the same things in our government is if the current set of monsters faces hard jail time for their crimes.
I see nothing wrong with anger and a desire for retribution, given the heinous nature of these acts. If anger is not justified for these barbarous acts, then it will never be justified.
digby says: “…One thing to keep in mind here: the president does not actually have the power to decide who gets prosecuted in this country and neither does his chief of staff. We have an independent justice department that is supposed to operate outside of politics. Holder’s job is to “look back” and see if crimes were committed. Just because Bush’s Attorneys General were all toadies doesn’t mean that’s the way it’s supposed to be.
A special prosecutor would solve this whole problem for Obama and Holder. The best way to get the hot potato off their desks is to give it to an independent, career prosecutor.”
I say: http://www.usdoj.gov/ Push HERE.
What colossal hubris. Why do not the COURTS get to decide whether the law was broken and if and when retribution is to be meted out.
Why can’t we trust the law? Why can’t we let the judicial branch be the judicial branch. Why are Obama and Rahm asserting their OPINIONS about “retribution”. They are NOT the law in this country. As Professor Turley said, let the courts and that branch do its job! Let them have their job.
So, because Obama is seemingly more “benign” as “dictator” but branded as not, he gets to wear the same powerful but illegitimate crown?
DUGG!
One word for all this: BULLSHIT! Pure and Simple Bullshit!
This cannot stand we the people must continue to raise hell to make sure each and every person who was involved in this in any way is brought to JUSTICE! Anything less and you might as well throw out all laws and open all the prison gates, let our people FREE! If it good enough for the tortures it is good enough for every other criminal in the country.
Nuremberg never happened, the Nazi’s never put one single Jew to death in the gas chambers! But shit I visited one of those camps in the 60’s and the feeling there was intense!!
OBAMA ADMINISTRATION IS MAKING THE SAME ARGUMENT TO IGNORE OUR LAWS THAT BUSH AND CHENEY MADE TO VIOLATE THEM
It is not “looking to the past” to ENFORCE the LAW. Since WHEN is NOT enforcing the law an acceptable option in AMERICA? It is “ignoring the law” to choose to ALLOW LAWBREAKERS TO GO UNPROSECUTED FOR THEIR CRIMES. Since WHEN is the POLITICAL ramifications of prosecution an acceptable/relevant argument?
WHERE does President Obama draw the line when it comes to IGNORING illegal acts? Is it EVERYONE in AMERICA who broke the law during Bush’s/Cheney’s reign; or is it ONLY those who were active participants in AIDING and or ABETTING Bush and Cheney? Since WHEN is someone who aids and abets a crime not subject to CRIMINAL prosecution?
The precedents that President Obama would set in failing to hold Bush administration appointees and or employees legally accountable for their illegal actions if FAR MORE DANGEROUS TO AMERICA’S FUTURE than whatever POLITICAL COST we might pay.
How can a Constitutional Law Professor advocate IGNORING the reasons that America was founded as a NATION OF LAWS instead of a NATION OF MEN?!
President Obama is WRONG to PREVENT the prescribed enforcement of our laws. In making the argument that “we have more pressing matters to consider”, he is making the SAME ARGUMENT to IGNORE our laws that the Bush administration made to VIOLATE them. The ends DO NOT justify the means!
I don’t know where the quote is but I am pretty certain obama told us if there were crimes they WOULD be prosecuted
where the HELL is that man?
Until Emanuel or the President responds to this, we (as a nation) are just twisting in the wind with no moral compass. As others say, how can we be respected by other nations, at least the majority of civilized nations, when we blow past an agreement we have signed in good faith that that signature represents the best intentions of the people of the US?
I’m looking for someone in the trad media to summon up the courage to ask this. Where is Tim Russert (R.I.P) when we need him?
This is pathetic, Rahm Emanuel!
OR Walter Cronkite. There is no “floor” for illegality if this is put aside.
This is NOT a political question. It is a legal one. A question that goes to the heart of what kind of country we are going to be. Are we going to be nation who’s chief executive takes seriously his oath to “preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States”? Are we going to uphold and affirm the rule of law or let the political and oligarchic establishment use one set of rules for themselves and another for their constituency?
If Obama does not change course on this issue, he will immeasurably compound through his inaction the vast damage Bush caused through his deliberate action. Are we once again going to have the liberal values of tolerance, fairness, and equanimity misapplied to a situation that screams out for an accounting under the law? It is one thing to toil in ignorance in the bowels of the Bush administration torturing the word of the law to the breaking point to accommodate the actions of a an overreaching President. It is quite another for his successor to NOT act with full knowledge of the horror that was performed in our names. If this plays out as currently scripted, it will be an open question for me which one of these Presidents will have caused the greater lasting damage to this country’s ideals.
Sure looks as if there will be no prosecutions.
I was thinking about this issue while reading a dual biography of Lincoln and Douglass. Lincoln resisted the emancipation proclamation with every fibre of his being. His “moderate” personality and political sense all fought against it. Eventually, his hand was forced- and he may have paid with his life.
Obama’s hand could also be forced by scenarios that hide in the future- but he clearly doesn’t want to do this- for political reasons one would guess.
Eventually Lincoln asked to meet with Douglass. Following the meeting, Douglass fell in love with the president that he had attacked vehemently and gained an understanding of the political trap Lincoln was in.
Like Lincoln, Obama is playing with fire on this issue.
I can’t tell whether it’s that he doesn’t want to do this, or that he can’t afford to be seen as wanting to do this. The choice seems to be either that Obama has committed a massive and foolish mistake, or else that he has carefully created through provocation an irresistible ‘make me do it’ situation. So far I don’t see enough info to decide which it is.
Considering how few really know the details.. I take Obama’s Chief of Staff’s words at face value. Why should we pretend otherwise?
From this post:
He doesn’t want prosecutions.
it’s also consistent with other decisions obama is making:
financial crisis? bailout the banksters first.
health care crisis? bailout the insurance companies first.
has obama done one thing for ordinary people that challenged in the slightest way the status quo powers?
Are you saying that Obama is bailing out the campaign contributors, rather than the voters?
not in this case. more that he seems, so far (and it’s still early days), to represent the interests of the elite as opposed to the interests of ordinary people in a very in our face kind of way.
but then, i just listened to an interview with sibel edmonds and that’s got me extra pissed off at the Ds.
thanks for the link. i’ve been wondering what she’d have to say. going to listen now.
nothing new and breaking, but a nice round up. it was what the Ds in congress did to her that pissed me off.
I have no doubt Rahm sincerely doesn’t want prosecutions, since any significant investigation up the chain of approvals leads in part to D congresscritters in sufficient numbers and at sufficiently high seniority levels to seriously impact D control. But Rahm doesn’t get to make the DoJ’s prosecution decisions, and if there is sufficient groundswell then it will become politically impossible to prevent their going forward. Now we sign the petitions and write LTE’s and watch and wait to see whether said sufficient groundswell actually materializes.
That excerpt had me throwing things at the teevee this morning.
Petition has been signed and check is written and will be posted tomorrow. This is the cause; now is the time.
Rahm and the Israeli lobby …. all hooked up to military industrial network and its branches and secret operations and huge money allotments …. all hooked up to a dangerous, dangerous cronyism of mutual wide scope cover-upping past, present and future …. and they are bonding over Gaza horror, for example. One big tub of compromise? Mutual back scratching? But really, get down with dogs, everyone gets up with fleas.
So …. once again, THE ACCOUNTABILITY COMA IN AMERICA CONTINUES …. another blank check and pr spin to talk the talk but NOT walk the walk in terms of change and reform and simple STRAIGHTFORWARD enforcement of laws that have been on the books since forever. I mean, even habaes corpus. How old was that when that got DELETED?
3 kinds of people. 1) people who make things happen, 2) people who watch things happen, 3) people who ask, “Whaaaaa happened?” Majority of Americans still in category 3!
if the republicans were smart, (but they’re not), they would blame all their problems on the false republican named bush, they would call him a criminal, they would call obama a criminal along side bush
that would give them a chance for the next president
So why was Holder so quick to save Sen. Stevens, but say Don Seigelman can continue to twist in the wind? Why not right the WRONG-headed accountability done on that frameup?
Thanks, Jane, for writing this. The issue will split the Democrats (and that may not be a bad thing, if a good portion of them are soft on torture).
Axelrod said almost the same thing today on Face The Nation, after saying “if” some were found to operate outside the law. The administration still doesn’t know?
IMO, the administration is trying to preempt the prosecutions issue before an even bigger firestorm breaks after Levin releases the SASC report (due out very soon now), or the OPR report is declassified (or the CIA OIG report leaks, or we get a look at those pesky unseen Abu Ghraib photos).
It’s marching orders to the Democratic Party establishment, and to Levin in particular, as well as the mainstream media that services the political party in power. Don’t call for prosecutions (at least not in any serious way, i.e., don’t make real moves on this).
Atten-HUT!
SASC?
i googled it: Senate Armed Services Committee
Thank you.
As a country, in 1974, we let the prosecution of Nixon slide; in 1987 we let the prosecution of (at least) Cap Weinberger slide over Iran – Contra. A line can be drawn between those events and this country’s torturing people it captured since 2001.
In both ‘74 and ‘87, Emanuel’s arguments were used — “look ahead, not back”, “mindless retribution should be avoided”, “time for healing”, blah blah blah.
Every time the country — and the Democratic Party — caved to these arguments, the right – wing radicals (Cheney, et. al.) saw only one thing: weakness to be ruthlessly exploited.
And as a result we’ve now arrived at this point — the President we all worked for in 2008 is violating his oath of office in 2009 by refusing to uphold the statutes on the books.
If there are sitting Democrats involved, so be it — they are just as subject to investigation and indictment as anyone else. If they believe they have mitigating circumstances, they can raise them. That goes for the CIA operatives (and everyone else for that matter) as well. But the determination of guilt and mitigation are two very different things.
We really are reachng a gut – check moment here. If we allow this to happen in our name, we are all accessories.
very related — the NSA helped convict Fujimori of Peru on human rights atrocities —
Keith Olbermann said it all so well:
Amen.
Obama is looking more and more like the firewall to torture prosecution.
Every single person that is being prosecuted in this “Rule Of Law” country no matter the charges needs to claim the Obama Defense and have all charges immediately dismissed on grounds of Moving Forward. Presidential Precedence.
Just like the shrub.
Obama’s decision, as president of the US is Imperial Case Law.
Constitutional Republic? Ha Ha Ha…
The world is not laughing.
http://www.barackobama.com/200…..y_betr.php
How can this opinion and outlook possibly square with Rahm’s statements? Are the alternatives that we either “put it behind us” or accountability may come in a different forum?
Talking the torture talk, but he’s not going to walk the walk. So that one lone guard from Abu Ghraib is probably still in prison, as being one bad, lone apple, and the “psycho torture deciders” like Rummy are free, free, free, never to be even threatened with the HORROR of what they have begat. Welcome to America, boys and girls. What is wrong with this picture? I keep wondering if Obama’s daddylessness has seduced him into giving away the store to the oliogarch patriarchy … of the political and military castes. Popularity he is riding on over principle. When will the populace catch up? Bush had an 8 year run. Glacial rallying time for us… and the light at the end of the tunnel…. wasn’t to consitutional security and justice.
http://blog.wired.com/27bstrok…..eases.html
I can mostly understand that. It’s the higher ups,those who wrote the memos, gave the orders, wanted the policy. Are we going to pay their legal costs as well? Hit the streets.
We find ourselves at a fascinating crossroads especially in light of Obama’s FISA renewal reversals so ardently opposed here.
Obama’s calculus with regard to torture, the hand maiden of tyranny so inherently perverse to a Constitutional order, must in some respects include an assessment of the organizational damage the national security structure would suffer with prosecutions. The irony is that he his left protecting an organization that is abusive and totalitarian holding the moral capacity of it operatives as negligible. The sacrifice of the rule of law however seems an ironic and terrible price to pay for a sense of continuity in the face of counter-revolution that has brought a structural tyranny into the Constitutional provenance. If the body of the government must be held in tact, it is only logical from a Constitutional perspective to bring the policy makers to account, not that Congress or Obama either have this will.
That these security matters ultimately are inextricably linked to issues of economic fairness, where the body of the people is traditionally discounted through workers’ compensation compromises, more recently through tort reform and the upswing of police violence, now through the “theater of cruelty” that is permeating our public discourse underscores the logical result of the coercive method. In the context of a media saturated with messages of fear perhaps social mechanization so long the unattainable method of the tyrant, though diluted in oligarchy, does indeed become viable.
Interestingly and so well said.
So let’s see. We let the Wall Street banksters group clean up their mess.
We let the sado-masochistic torture architects clean up their mess.
But, let’s celebrate change. NOT.
Yes, let’s institute the “honor system” and trust those who have been without honor. With the added non-incentive of “no accountability” and if challenged by the court, further tax dollars to defend the morally indefensible! Get your blank checks c/o U.S. taxpayer, delivered by BO, himself.
The Bushes are a powerful and connected family with long CIA and weapons running ties. I think there have been warnings and threats to Obama from day one to be very careful not to prosecute. The President is in a very difficult place, plus if he comes out strong for prosecutions the Republicans will scream about a witch hunt. I believe that a special prosecutor needs to be appointed with hands off from the executive branch. The right think it is liberals and Democrats who have lost the moral compass? Who engineered the torture, who justified it in memos, who doesn’t care what it means to our country’s identity?
We cannot see what is going on behind the scenes but Obama is up against a lot and that is just within our own country. We need to help him fight for the programs and policies we want. I do believe he is a chess player and the pieces are being put into place. You cannot just ram these policies through and expect it to happen overnight. There is more danger to America from within than from without. It helps big money to build the wedges and stoke the differences. If we only had more Republicans who believed in law and order it would help us to stand up and do what’s right. They even knew when to pull the plug on Nixon as painful as it was to them. There are no Republicans like that today.
I continue to think this is a possibility as well. If it is, the chess analogy applies. A syndicate that tortures, uses white phosphorus on children, and sends poison valentines to senators is playing for keeps. All the more reason to hire a SP.
Suppose once Obama got into office he was threatened in a way that prevents him from prosecuting torture. How do we deal with this possibility and still give him the support he would need to do the right thing?
I am going to pray and hope he sees the way of truth and courage. I am almost too old to withstand what we are watching. I am of the generation who never recovered from the death of Kennedy, then Bobby. In many ways my heart and vision are still right there…still waiting for the dream that would never die.
The more recent legacy, however, is that of a phony and stolen election that ushered in a malevolent, idiot, boy Dictator. A wayward, bully child is a dangerous thing at any age….just watch almost any alcoholic.
me, too. I am 59. Too much unexplained and unnecessary violence and death.
Thank you. Where has our country gone?
It was taken in full view. The towers came down and the manipulation, lies, and blundering began. Shock Doctrine full blown. There is no other conclusion to come to.
bingo!
That was one delayed bingo!
no kidding!
I agree, I believe Kennedy was our last chance at true Democracy and they killed him for it.
Everybody tries to re-write the 60’s and 70’s but we scared the pants off them…hence, I believe, the rush toward dictatorship and steady erosion of our civil rights and living standards.
It really IS heartbreaking. I’m just glad my mother didn;t live to see what’s become of her beloved country (and her neo con son for that matter)
How tragic if you are right about the whole narrative for Kennedy. They will have been darker days than we knew. A condemnation of the whole American enterprise.
Baloney, Kennedy got us into Vietnam and the idea that he was going to get us out when he was killed is nothing but speculation.
I see very dark times ahead indeed….
How does Rahm rationalize the President’s stated goal to “restore our moral standing” in the world by thumbing our noses at the international agreements we’ve entered into?
Moreover, how the hell does Obama rationalize that our moral standing in the world could ever be restored without holding those criminals who dreamed up the policy and authorized it be held to account?
I need music
Cotton Jones Basket Ride – Gotta Cheer Up
Reddit this post.
selise, you mean you’re not pacified with $400.?
i might be if it came with a special prosecutor for torture, a pecora commission for the banksters, and single payer health care reform for us. *g*
Add a living wage.. and I’m with you…)
good point.
OK. HOW do we know that the US isn’t still torturing? Isn’t that what Bush said countless times “the US does Not torture?”
Frankly, I suspect their still doing it.
Certainly, not prosecuting… insures we will again, at best.
My guess is that is a main incentive not to prosecute. The cronyism, yes, but also the self-protection from future prosecution for ongoing SOP. Let’s not get rid of this option or tool secretly being played out as we speak. What America doesn’t know, won’t hurt them. Status quo continues. SOP and of course, SNAFU!
” “Little Guantanamo”–Secretive “CMU” Prisons Designed to Restrict Communication of Jailed Muslims and Activists with Outside World
AMY GOODMAN: We turn right now to an issue of prisons here at home. While President Obama has pledged to close Guantanamo and the secret overseas CIA prisons, calls are increasing for him to reexamine the treatment of prisoners detained as part of the so-called war on terror being held inside the United States.
With little public scrutiny, the Bush administration opened two secretive prisons in Indiana and Illinois, known as Communication Management Units, or CMUs, that are designed to severely restrict prisoner communication with family members, the media and the outside world. Dozens of Muslim men are still being held at the CMUs, as well as other prisoners, including environmental and animal rights activists. “
http://www.guantanamovoices.org/
Yes, how many times did Bush angrily slam his fists on the lecturn, looking straight into the camera, swearing that ‘THE UNITED STATES DOES NOT TORTURE’?
As long as Obama continues to obstruct justice, I will therefore assume he, like Bush, is lying.
Let’s throw them all in jail. Let’s start with the members of Congress that were briefed on everything that went on, and approved it all.
Jane, Ijust wnat to say
F*ck Rahm Emanuel. He’s not the president, he’s not even the president’s press secretary, and he should not be making statements for the president.
I want the @#$%^&*(s who authorized torture, from the WH down to the senior officers, investigated and prosecuted for these illegal, immoral, unconstitutional acts.
(Give the victims US citizenship; they’ve earned it, and more.)
My respect for Obama continues to diminish with his decision about FISA, her handling of the banking failures namely the false stress tests, and finally not holding the perpetrators of torture accountable.
Of the three, the allowing of torture, the enabling of it by our gov’t, the lack of accountability for the most heinous of crimes, makes it very hard for me to respect my current president. In my eyes there is no more serious issue than this.
hmmmm should say “his handling of the banking failures….”
OT-Ahmadinejad is asking the prosecutors to reconsider Roxana’s conviction.
Keep an eye on writings of Andrew Sullivan….he was hot and vocal about this topic today on the Matthews show. I don’t know what that will get us…but certainly a voice.
Glenn Greenwald also is a voice to be heeded.
Look. I’ve been cuttin’ this guy a break since Day one. Ya know? People were wiggin’ out about some of his cabinet picks – like Holder, and others – and I was saying, “C’mon, let’s give him a chance.” “C’mon, he said he was going to pick a ‘team of rivals’ which meant there would be some scumbags, so it shouldn’t be surprising we’re not happy with everybody.” And stuff like that. Even last week. I took a wait and see attitude. I figured, ok, he got the memos out, he deserves credit for that. OK, he let the torturers off, but the big guys aren’t in the clear.
Now they are.
And it fucking sucks.
“retribution.” I don’t wanna hear it. It’s called punishment, assholes. And if that means you Obama, then so be it.
hey, i gotta question….
what?
Yeah, we’re waiting, BF!
My 105.
We could have a special prosecutor for torture same as we had Fitz for the Plame-Wilson smear.
Getting the right prosecutor would be paramount.
Right. My only question was whether it’s a “special counsel” rather than a “special prosecutor.” I seem to recall Fitz kind of emphasizing the distinction. Probably picking nits.
My 2nd query is at 113.
Yeah, well, that didn’t work too well either, did it?
All these last 8, now 9 years when we thought something was going to finally break Bush’s iron grip, it would fade away.
I think the press had something to do with it.
It infuriates me when I think of all the uncovered protests against Iraq and then the microscopic focus on those idiot sheep “teabaggers”. GAH!
Fitz did his job, and I thought that Waxman would follow up, but nada. Sad.
….. and here it is.
The petition calls for appointment of a special prosecutor. Is that the right term?
Am I picking nits here? I don’t think. The special prosecutor statute expired, no? Like, Starr was a special prosecutor. Fitz was a special counsel. Am I right?
How dare our President, through Emanual, accuse the citizens of this nation who voted for him in good faith of, in effect, being “poor sports” who just want to look back in anger and not “move ahead”. Of course we’re angry. We have every right to be angry. Bush, et al not only lied to get us into a war/occupation, but illegally tortured in our name, and spied on us to boot – who knows what else. What the hell?!
News flash – this demand for the rule of law to apply to everyone is not going to go away. Resolutions for investigation and criminal prosecutions where evidence warrants, origininating in precincts across the country have been adopted at county Democratic Party conventions. We the people want justice, not an attitude of “too bad, so sad; let’s try and do better” from our leaders. We need to know we have not been duped yet again. We want responsive and responsible action and accountability.
Rahm and President Obama are not the independent justice department thank God.
Holder is up to up to the plate so concentrate your fire on him doing his independent service for our country.
I am warming to the idea of making a stink here by example:
- Act of basic civil-disobedience.
- Arrest and prosecution.
- Obama Defense and media circus.
More than likely lose, but if a relatively benign offense with relatively benign penalties were available (there have to be plenty of these on the books everywhere), and any kind of storm could be created; well it could certainly be worth it.
you might be interested in checking out what these good folks are planning for april 30:
http://www.100dayscampaign.org/
Hmm… interesting. I could get behind it, but I’m not sure about the theatrics. That’s one of the things I think undercuts the efficacy of protests in today’s society. It’s just much too easy to paint people as fringe radicals, and doing everything in your power to not give the media the ability to do just that is critical to a message; in my underdeveloped opinion.
I’m a 30-year old single white male business-owner, middle-class upbringing, college educated, nondescript, respected by my peers and colleagues, living a modest metropolitan life. No criminal record. It just seems like the simpler the better. No ranting. Nothing off message. Just clear articulation of the fact-pattern.
Could it be done?
Probably not.. It can and should be peaceful, but colorless, I doubt it.
ImperialFlow, I’m totally with you.
History has been whitewashed, peaceful hippy protests really don’t work. Don’t forget that Ghandi helped India get “The Bomb”.
Consider the Irish, that vandalized the computers of the Builders of Flechette bombs (Raytheon?) used by Isreal on the lebanese.
http://amerikanbeat.net/2009/01/27/385/
An Interesting and effective protest happened recently when some Tibetans shut down the airport by squatting on it.
Imagine if these congressmen couln’t get home, if the roads to the airports/terminals became a parking lots..
I can dream…
no. not with our current media.
you will always be painted as a fringe radical, and there will always be agent provocateurs.
if your idea of a “successful” protest is a sympathetic treatment by fox news, then my advice is stay home and leave it to people who have a different idea of “success.”
This whole idea of lawful investigations being called “retribution” sounds like a Rahm Emmanuel kind of idea. I think Rahm needs to go and Obama has to be reminded of our legal obligations and just what the world learned from Nuremburg.
Why is Obama protecting Bushco?!?
http://blog.wired.com/27bstrok…..ilemm.html
So the last round of our tax dollars will in part go to defend these reptiles? Oy vey.
I would like to hear what else Mr. Balin has to say.
‘nother question. What’s with this shit about the wall being soft when we were banging people’s heads on them in a controlled way? I haven’t read the memos but I seem to remember reading somewhere that that wasn’t always the case. at least not at first (and don’t get me wrong, the whole idea of bustin’ somebody’s head in a “controlled manner” strikes me as kinda ludicrous.
It can certainly cause brain damage. Sort of like the kind the troops are sustaining in Iraq. Traumatic brain injuries are the kind that are subjective.
that’s what I figure, too.
FYI, emptywheel is upstairs.
The CIA IG Report: Is Waterboarding KSM 183 Times Really Effective?
That is a really good link…is that some of the cover he’s looking for? You would think he would know….
i think Zubaydah was first smashed into a hard wall and it was only later that the slammed him into the “soft wall”. and the “soft wall” was the old hard wall with plywood on it. that’’s soft?
http://www.salon.com/opinion/g…..index.html
Greenwald gives Obama points for bravely releasing the memos but goes on about prosecution:
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
[snip]
RahmObama are criminals. They have failed to fulfill the oath taken to get their current jobs. When will the recall of RahmObama begin?
If Obama is not going to prosecute why did he release the memos? He has gotten himself into a pickle. Or is he telling us loud and clear that we don’t matter?
The left is furious and the right is furious. Draw your own conclusions on who “WE” are.
Raven ! Waddup ?
Nattin, just thinkin that the idea that these memo’s REALLY tell the story of what happened is pretty far fetched. Maybe I’m not as shocked because I assumed it was way way worse.
Mary made that point some days ago over at Marcy’s place … a list of what we do not know and it was more chilling than the info. in these memos.
Yea, it’s all fucked but it’s pretty hard to surprise this old cynic.
I can’t read his mind but whatever Obama’s intentions are by releasing the memos, we must unite and pressure them to appoint an independent Prosecutor to investigate this. More than undermining the Constitution, this will leave an indelible scar on America’s already reduced image around the World.
Or, is he provoking everyone in the world to an outrage that will make prosecutions unavoidable? It’s not yet clear.
And why did he release them so soon? He could have waited since the entire government must be reconstructed. His strategy sucks or I don’t understand it.
It’s a legal question in another way: does the administration have a legal obligation to prosecute violators of the Geneva conventions under the Geneva conventions or other international law? Bet they do.
Rahm Emanuel is a stay behind for Bush/Cheney, just like John Brennan and Robert Gates.
New Lieberman, same as the old Lieberman.
As it is, Obama has implied without subtlety that Bush, Cheney et al. are guilty, guilty, guilty, which is what ‘not going to prosecute’ means, as opposed to, say, ‘mistakes were made’. That’s unprecedented, they’re not even ‘unindicted co-conspirators’ yet.
It would be nice if everyone revoked the honorary degrees they conferred on Bush, Cheney, et al.
“That people who want to see those who illegally led the country down the road of torture held to account are simply “looking back” in “anger” and “retribution…There is something terribly inconsistent about a Senior Administration official like Rahm Emanuel insisting that an elite few should not be subject to our laws, and that people who take issue with this have no higher motive than counterproductive rage”
Thank you Jane. I was immediately offended by the President’s use of the term “retribution” and in a slow seethe since that he would so demean the people who want to see the rule of law equally applied.
DITTO! I couldn’t agree more.
U.S. citizens must hold all branches of our government fully accountable for actions taken on behalf of the public in all matters both domestic and foreign. We must take action now to insure that justice is not only done, but is seen to be done. If we don’t prosecute blatant criminality and conduct by ANY member of our government or military in regards to these issues we are forever dooming our form of governance and the capacity to maintain any semblance of a constitutional republic. If we fail to face this and deal with it under the rule of law the disease will not only fester and remain but be destined to reoccur.
Under Department of Justice regulations, the Attorney General must appoint a special counsel when (1) a “criminal investigation of a person or matter is warranted,” (2) the investigation “by a United States Attorney Office or litigating Division of the Department of Justice would present a conflict of interest for the Department,” and (3) “it would be in the public interest to appoint an outside Special Counsel to assume responsibility for the matter.” All three requirements have been met.
There can be no doubt that the public interest will be best served through an independent investigation into both the allegations of abuse at U.S. detention sites as well as the role of high-ranking officials in authorizing and allowing these abuses. A special counsel is required not only because high-ranking Bush Administration officials and Cabinet members are implicated, but also because the Department of Justice itself may have participated in the conspiracy to violate the War Crimes Act.
In the absence of the will to seek justice and defend the rule of law, the constraints on the national security state are removed & we as citizens have no effective means by which to insure the very essence of our governmental system is protected.
Thank you, tx49holdem, for all your comments. All your points are important but here is the one that stands out for me:
I’ve signed the petition to Holder, but am considering sending him a separate letter which focuses on your point in above quote. (after searching for the specific Reg/Law authorizing it).
We must impress upon Holder that he has no right to arbitrarily choose whether to invoke the Law or not; it is his sworn obligation to invoke the Law in every case with no respect of persons, whether mighty or small.
I excerpted your paragraph on the Regulation which requires the AG to appoint a Special Counsel and its 3 requirements being met and included it in a comment at the DIGG, where it will be seen by a much wider readership.
Seems clear to me that Holder either abides by the Regulation or becomes derelict in his duty to do so.
Misprision of Felony:
“Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.”
United States Code, Title 18, Part I, Chapter I, Section 4
obama and emanuel,
Unlike repugly presidents, you have to earn our respect. You are currently failing miserably in that regard. Adios, dogs, until you do those things that command that respect, I will look to elsewhere for leadership. You do not get that respect automatically. I will fight you until you begin measuring up.
and may I add this twisted fuck’s congressional district included Skokie you know, the retributive one.
note to the inside babeball types – don’t think it’s just wishful thinking to think they are gonna get their asses handed to them politically on this – the atmospherics are so much like Daschle
Maybe the optics will change Monday, as the NY Times (h/t MadDog and several commenters for noticing) is now running a front page story (on their website at least) repeating the 183 number of drownings of KSM.
(okay, drownings was my word).
Marcy Wheeler is credited several paragraphs in for noticing the number. The Times website includes a link to Marcy’s post at emptywheel/FDL. Fortuitously it includes the Holder petition. Maybe there will be more signatures this coming week.
I have a comment over at Emptywheel’s place that attempts to catalog most (?) of the main Internet kudos to EW for her “183″ post. Feel free to add more if you can.
Bob in HI
” Rep. Jane Harman , the California Democrat with a longtime involvement in intelligence issues, was overheard on an NSA wiretap telling a suspected Israeli agent that she would lobby the Justice Department reduce espionage-related charges against two officials of the American Israeli Public Affairs Committee, the most powerful pro-Israel organization in Washington.
Harman was recorded saying she would “waddle into” the AIPAC case “if you think it’ll make a difference,” according to two former senior national security officials familiar with the NSA transcript.
In exchange for Harman’s help, the sources said, the suspected Israeli agent pledged to help lobby Nancy Pelosi , D-Calif., then-House minority leader, to appoint Harman chair of the Intelligence Committee after the 2006 elections, which the Democrats were heavily favored to win.
Seemingly wary of what she had just agreed to, according to an official who read the NSA transcript, Harman hung up after saying, “This conversation doesn’t exist.”
Harman declined to discuss the wiretap allegations, instead issuing an angry denial through a spokesman.
“These claims are an outrageous and recycled canard, and have no basis in fact,” Harman said in a prepared statement. “I never engaged in any such activity. Those who are peddling these false accusations should be ashamed of themselves.”
It’s true that allegations of pro-Israel lobbyists trying to help Harman get the chairmanship of the intelligence panel by lobbying and raising money for Pelosi aren’t new.
They were widely reported in 2006, along with allegations that the FBI launched an investigation of Harman that was eventually dropped for a “lack of evidence.”
What is new is that Harman is said to have been picked up on a court-approved NSA tap directed at alleged Israel covert action operations in Washington.
And that, contrary to reports that the Harman investigation was dropped for “lack of evidence,” it was Alberto R. Gonzales, President Bush’s top counsel and then attorney general, who intervened to stop the Harman probe.
Why? Because, according to three top former national security officials, Gonzales wanted Harman to be able to help defend the administration’s warrantless wiretapping program, which was about break in The New York Times and engulf the White House. “
http://www.cqpolitics.com/wmsp…..ost_Viewed
Yes, appointing a special prosecutor to investigate the former president is not donuts with spreckles to tasteful tongue.
No one said the President’s job was easy. Even Biden said Obama would be tested early. He just didn’t consider it would be on torture crimes of the Bush Adm and strongly implored by his own supportors.
It sicken me to see this get the wave of dismissal.
If I become a serial killer killer. That I can thwart and fight the evil serial killers. Does that make it legal for me because I am fighting evil?
Nixon instructed the nation that hif the president does something illegal. It is the president that makes it legal.
His Vice President showed us that a resignation shields one from prison.
Gerald Ford prove that by giving a tax rebate, Americans can forgive it all.
Jimmy Carter showwed Americans by taking on the oil industry we will pay and they will destroy that president in front of our eyes and make us hate him.
Reagan proved that a actor can sell snake oil in a reality show where he has the leading role and the producers and directors do as they pleased.
Bush Sr explained to us that Americans know nothing about a “New World Order”. And American’s still under the influence of a lethal dose of Reagan’s snake oil can make more bad decisions.
Clinton made us think that we really had something different. And that difference was NAFTA, as well as explaining to us that girls can stay a virgin by performing BJ’s because it isn’t sex.
Bush JR and Bush Jr. Got America in touch with their most inner self that happens to be masocistic. That Americans can be made to fear their own shadow, That he as an American president won’t lift a finger to help other Americans. Your on your own. Should have been born welathy. This was a very prolific instructing president.
Now Obama, So far displaying his Constitutional educated mind by passing on prior presidential crimes. Thinking they will not happen again. At least until Jeb Bush runs for office.
The Bush crime family is here to stay. Politicians aren’t leaders. They are corporate slaves. Our country, right now is over with. We cannot allow these people to dictate policy to us. Democracy dies as soon as we elect the president? The vote is our only power? Our power is too infrequent. Power to the people my foot! We can’t look foward without rectifying the past. The Bush crime family has millions of peoples blood on their hands and we sit back an allow these people to tell us we can’t walk and chew gum at the same time? How dare Rahm tell me that we will let this stand. Is this what we do because extremists hate us because we dominate everyone in the world with our brand of justice. We have no right anymore to judge anyone when we have lost our way!
I can’t believe that we punished the Nazis for war crimes but when we are up to bat we get away with war crimes. Oh yeah we are the corporate rich guys of america. Might makes right. Micheal Ruppert said that the while on DEA investigations during his 18 year career,”the CIA would flood the poor streets of LA,Detroit,and other so called minority areas, With crack cocain back in the 80’s”. The same guys are running the show today. Infact our economy needs war,drugs,god,oil to work. Thats why we rot!
Kurt Waldheim must be a little pissed now.
Jane, makes me wonder what would Hilliary have done? Hmmm…
Jane, the only way to get any kind of prosecution is through a criminal prosecution not a federal one. I don’t know why this still isn’t clear to so many progressives. But that fight is over,America. This administration has decided to go rogue as well when it comes to rule of law. We have been ethered by unconstitutional. The Obama administration is not for constitutional values. That dispute is over.
It’s not torture what we should be after. That is just a diversion. It’s murder of our soldiers in every district of the country where they reside from. We are a movement spread out across the country. And if you think this is just emotional rhetoric it isn’t. We don’t just talk the walk we walk the walk as well.
Our movement sent over 2,000 copies to every D.A. in the country of Vincent Bugliosi’s book “The Trial of George W Bush for Murder” We raised the money from one radio show in a matter of weeks. 18 thousand dollars (count em) were spent purchasing the books and the shipping to every D.A. in the country. Let us be clear “EVERY District Attorney has a copy of Vincent Bugliosi’s book. Our funddrive is over and now the next step begins.
There will be no federal prosecutor to serve justice,firedoglakers. That leaves only this option and it’s not going to be for torture it’s going to be for murder of our american soldiers in these districts. Most of the progressive media has ignored us and didn’t think this was going to go anywhere. We assure you, that is not the case. We will fight like never before to let people know it’s not torture but MURDER that is the crime of the century for our country.
Any comments or questions? If interested please visit, Prosecute George Bush
sincerely,
ProsecuteGeorgeBush movement
P.S. We are expecting a response shortly from a D.A.’s office in May for our efforts. We hope this energizes some who are reading this message.
Obama cannot say that he doesn’t support torture when he allows it to go unprosecuted and unpunished. The message is clear: we torture and we will torture because we do nothing to discourage it. Obama is a monster.
” National Union chairman Ya’acov “Ketzele” Katz sent a letter to White House chief-of-staff Rahm Emanuel last week admonishing him not to forget his Jewish and Israeli origins.
Katz claims that in a private meeting with the unnamed leader, Emanuel said, “In the next four years, there will be a peace agreement with the Palestinians on the basis of two states for two peoples, and it does not matter to us who is the prime minister.”
Katz went on to compare Emanuel to the biblical Esther, who ended up at using her influence with Persian King Ahashverosh to intervene on behalf of the Jews of the Persian Empire.
“For if you remain silent at this time, relief and deliverance for the Jews will arise from another place, but you and your father’s family will perish. And who knows but that you have come to royal position for such a time as this?” Katz wrote, quoting from the Book of Esther (4:14). “
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/S…..2FShowFull
This sounds so much like “toxic cronyism” in the first degree. Keep the status quo of our covert operation systems. Obama is playing cronyism … to win “crony” status with the long time cronies in charge. Why can’t he walk the walk on this issue? Once again, amorality prevails on profoundly moral issues. Politics rules, not justice.
Interesting that Emanuel used the word “dictated” in describing Obama’s action. Obama most certainly seems to see himself as above the law. He is giving dispensations to torturers and murderers as if he were a dictator, a tyrant. He condones torture and murder by refusing to prosecute its perpetrators and by that makes it certain we will have more of the same. For American belief in the value of the rule of law he is a fucking monster, worse than W, in part because he gives good speech and is likable. A likable fucking monster, then.