It’s not clear what Judge William Alsup was fishing for on August 7 when he ordered both Google and Oracle to submit lists of authors they had paid to “report and comment” on their Clash of the Titans copyright infringement case.
What is clear is that Alsup was not amused when Google decided it would flout his order, and he smacked them pretty hard with an Order to Supplement on Monday:
Google suggests that it has paid so many commenters that it is impossible to list them all. Please simply do your best but the impossible is not required. Oracle managed to do it.
Oracle did comply as Alsup notes, and in the process oh-so helpfully ratted out both Ed Black, President of the Computer and Communications Industry Association and Jonathan Band, an adjunct professor at the Georgetown University Law Center as two of Google’s “paid influencers” in its own filing.
They seem to have a pretty big bug up their collective ass about it, too:
Oracle notes that Google maintains a network of direct and indirect “influencers” to advance Google’s intellectual property agenda. This network is extensive, including attorneys, lobbyists, trade associations, academics, and bloggers, and its focus extend beyond pure intellectual property issues to competition/antitrust issues. Oracle notes that Googles extensive network of influencers has been the subject of recent press coverage.
As Oracle points out, Google cited Band’s work — with no acknowledgment of their financial connection — in an April 3, 2012 copyright brief to the court.
Venkat Balasubramani argues that Judge Alsup’s August 7 order is overly broad, and could be interpreted to include anyone with AdSense ads running on their site. Which prompted Eric Goldman to assert that there was no way Google could comply with the order in the allotted time — precisely the position Google took. Which Judge Alsup did not exactly find funny ha-ha.
Alsup clarified that AdSense participants need not be listed in his Order to Supplement.
While most of the press has focused on dirty hippy “paid bloggers” aspect, it’s clear that the people who are really worried about Alsup’s somewhat unprecedented order are the elite crowd of academics and professional journalists who may not have disclosed that they are on the Google dole, and have been presenting themselves as objective commentators. (Don’t worry, guys. It doesn’t seem to have hurt Jonathan Gruber’s career.)
Dan Levine wonders if Alsup’s order was prompted by a July 27 column in the San Jose Mercury News by Chris O’Brien, which outlines the way that tech giants funnel money to their respective experts to churn out friendly policy prose.
But it’s also possible that over the course of the trial, Alsup wound up on the business end of one of the PR “war rooms” that vendors set up on behalf of corporations (and political campaigns) to flood social media channels with chatter. Alsup seems to be a tech-savy guy who learned to code in Java for the trial. Judges read their own press, and it doesn’t take a Hawking-level IQ to spot a boiler room full of over-caffeinated Twitter trolls with multiple ID software and an IP anonymizer repeating bullet points off an oppo sheet (viz, HBGary, Leonie Enterprises).
Judge Alsup may just be curious to know how deep Google’s propaganda machine goes, especially now that the trial is over. I am too, for that matter. He has ordered them to try harder and come up with a legitimate list of paid commentators by noon on Friday. If Google has decided that judge baiting is a fun new sport, I may just get my wish.
You can find court documents from the Oracle vs. Google case here.




64 Comments

Maybe Google can switch to the NSA argument that revealing the list, or even counting how many paid hacks are on it, would invade their privacy.
This stuff is above my pay grade. What exactly where the ‘influencers’ doing,and who were they trying to influence?
It would be nice to see some academics caught out. Even nicer if they were censured by their institutions (not very likely, but one lives in hope).
Thank you. Something to keep in mind when I am running around treating all comments as the genuine thing.
Jonathon Gruber… golly those were good times, eh? ; )
I think the paid troll-o-sphere is something that needs to be called out at every available opportunity. {Thanks Jane!}
I recently had a chat with a friend who was despondent over comments left on a news report of some sort at the NYT or maybe WaPo. I mentioned that some were undoubtedly left by those paid to do so and she was stunned. It had never occurred to her that everyone commenting isn’t just an average human with something to say. I suspect a lot of people don’t know.
Jane, I’m wondering what this might mean for FDL.
I’m guessing that there might be rippling affects. I’m prolly wrong, I but I figure there’s a reasone for this thread that I’m not getting.
And, the comments aren’t helping me.
I think I’d be a better person if there was a Dance Machine playing.
Ever your supporter…
To paraphrase Dr. Johnson, Jane Hamsher is not the greatest of Internet writers simply because she is not the first.
“an adjunct professor at the Georgetown University Law Center”
translation: outsourced, non-tenured faculty; a temp.
What?
Sorry, I don’t know what you are trying to say.
Help.
In his Lives Of The English Poets, about John Milton’s Paradise Lost, Samuel Johnson wrote: “… and his work is not the greatest of heroic poems, only because it is not the first.”
I have sorely missed Jane’s great reportage and greater writing.
The ‘adjunct’ quip ain’t related, it’s just to de-mystify the impressive-sounding lingo.
“I have sorely missed Jane’s great reportage and greater writing.”
You and me both. And today we got a two-fer : ) Nice to see you back in action Jane : )
Hola! Good to be back.
I’ve been trying to get someone to write about the IP wars for a while but couldn’t, so I decided to do it myself.
Our future is being shaped in these wild-west policy battles, but it’s so complex nobody understands it, particularly on the political side of things. I’m looking forward to staking out that space here at FDL.
There is just so much that I don’t understand.
Thank you for trying to help me.
Sounds like banking. Way too complicated to be regulated or investigated.
Like morality or being nice. It’s not able to be enforeced.
Hi, Mare.
The justice department did step in with the Microsoft anti trust case, but now a lot of it is being decided in these court battles where they sue each other. Unlike the banks, the tech companies often have competing interests, and what is good for one sucks for another (as in the case with the Java Copyright, which Oracle claims is proprietary whereas Google claims fair use.)
The samsung-apple case is also worth watching. These battles have consequences that will reverberate for decades and dramatically reshape our future.
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/05/google-nsa-secrecy-upheld/
http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2012/03/dugan-darpa-google/
https://www.eff.org/issues/nsa-spying/
http://www.salon.com/topic/cass_sunstein/
Awesome! I can’t wait : )
The paid hackster thing though interests me particularly because of the parallels with the crap ExxonMobil has pulled for years regarding climate policy debates. It appears that the rest of the corporate realm has caught a clue and now they are engaging in the same sort of opinion-for-hire bs, where those hired pretend they are disinterested observers rather than hired guns. Expose. Them. All.
They are destroying the credibility of academics everywhere.
And there’s always Soviet Russia. Hell, we’ve already got a media worthy of Pravda.
Ugh, that article on Cass Sunstein written by Glenn Greenwald was one of the scariest things ever. He is definitely the spiritual forefather of the Leonie Enterprises travesty, which for my money is the biggest non-covered story of the year. Truly horrifying to think the government paid them 120 million to smear journalists who criticized private defense contractors. We are ruled by dangerous crooks.
Jane, it is truly great to see you “back in action”, just a phred says. Your wisdom and insights have been sorely missed.
I hope that you may stay very active on this topic, as one of the most tech savvy people whom I have ever encountered has alluded to precisely what you are addressing here, today.
Just a phred said, many people do not realize or understand that there are paid “opinion shapers” whose function is essentially psychological warfare … and they succeed, often, primarily because they “fly” under the radar of most people’s awareness.
Your return, on both “fronts”, is very much appreciated.
DW
Thanks, DW! Katie is doing really well, leaping around like a pup, so I’m easing back in. Happiest possible outcome!
Sunstein!!!
Gah!
My greatest worry about another four-year Obama “term”, Jane, is that Sunstein might be appointed to SCOTUS.
There are mornings when I awaken thinking, “How much worse could this “effective” destruction become?” … and then my mind thinks, “Sunstein”, and I ponder the implications …
DW
Agreed. We are in big trouble with a media that functions like a giant corporate PR firm and now with government backing to try to shut down any lingering vestiges of an independent 4th estate. Not just Pravda, we get the KGB and the Stasi, too.
I never thought I would miss the ’70s when the Soviets were still the bad guys ; )
Woot! Great news about Katie — give her a good scratch behind the ears from me : )
That is great news!
I have been wondering how Katie was doing and knowing that you have been carrying many things as well as the concern and worry about a near and dear being.
I was thinking about how daughter’s wee YorkiePoo has wormed his way into mine heart … in relation to your Katie, and also realizing that Fuerae is now thirteen and quite venerable, for a cat. I thought he was failing last week and spent considerable time encouraging him to eat … which he finally did, but I was worried about Feline Leukemia, even though that is unlikely in a cat his age … I have lost several very special cats to that disease and they are all still much in my thoughts.
The very best to you and Katie!
DW
Dude, pondering Sunstein is never a good idea… but first thing in the morning??? How do you manage to get out of bed? ; )
The justice department did step in with the Microsoft anti trust case, but now a lot of it is being decided in these court battles where they sue each other. Unlike the banks, the tech companies often have competing interests, and what is good for one sucks for another (as in the case with the Java Copyright, which Oracle claims is proprietary whereas Google claims fair use.)
I can tell you Larry E does not like to lose on anything and he recently canned one his top dogs for public comments about SUN and the hiring of Mark Hurd…Larry will just turn around and by google just to spite them!
Brindle says W00t to Katie. Special licks coming at her.
Nice to hear Good News, Jane.
The dog and cats INSIST upon it … then I’m up, I feed them, turn on “Lakeside Diner” … and …
Always wonderful to “see” you, phred, btw.
DW
One thing that is curious about this:
Is connected to the number of commentators that is too “numerous” for Google to catalogue.
Because of algorithms and scripting available to turn one person in that war room, “flooding social media channels with chatter” into 100 or 1,000 “persons.”
Hell, we run HTML scripting at work to automate 10s of thousands of users hitting our systems at once, and each of them has a different profile, which we set up with scripts too.
It’s literally astounding the amount of “fake people” out there on the internet.
Hey, I think there’s fake people in the real world too.
Hi, Kelly.
I’ve been tubing less and watching news less, just because it’s too depressing. Fakes. Who needs that?
The “too many to name” made my warning bells go off too. But they also could have been talking about Adsense publishers. I think it was a deliberate misreading of the judge’s order, in order to evade its intent. I didn’t have any problem understanding what the judge meant, and I think that’s why Judge Alsup got his snark on in response to Google’s smarty-pants answer.
While you’re an interested party as a blog owner, the rest of us lost that war in the 1980s when everyone (am I leaving anyone out?) acquiesced to private law created by the software and pc manufacturers, by agreeing to their licensing terms for use (in only one computer or device, as it was then).
It’s not an urban legend that Microsoft embedded invisible code. It was used to discover breaches of the TOS license. (Many?) unwitting Fortune 500 companies were caught and agreed to multi-multi million dollar long-term contracts with MS in exchange for silence and avoiding embarrassment for something like ‘stealing cable’.
Don’t assume it can’t get worse.
We’re getting there.
Astounding maybe but not really surprising, at least to me. It’s an old and obvious avenue to pursue when somebody is pushing an agenda. The internet makes it possible for one person to be multiple people though, raising the level of fraud by orders of magnitude.
Great to see you back in action Jane.
Always good to see you, too, DW : )
Thank goodness for pets and other loved ones, eh? : )
On my screen, it looks like there’s still room on the FDL banner menu for one more supported blog, maybe for IP News (or will that also cost like $3,000?)?
Hi phred! WB stranger! :)
One notes that Judge Alsup was law clerk to William O. Douglas …
Apparently, the wisdom at Goggle have not grasped the sort of person they are attempting to toy with … perhaps, everyone at Goggle is simply too young to realize that smart-ass crap doesn’t impress certain people?
Alups’s first love was mathematics … he has a mind that likely perceives certain conceptual “things” with broad and profoundly deep ease, one imagines …
DW
I met with a vice-president for investments (so her card reads) at my bank (not one of the TBTFs but a recipient of TARP funds), she never heard of Spiro Agnew, couldn’t even relate to the historical context I placed him in, just drew a blank.
Yeah. VP from 69 to 73. That was a long time ago.
And, people even a lot older than her have bizarre ideas about a lot of stuff. Like how a woman’s body works.
I know that’s a strange combination of ideas. Sorry.
Hiya Margaret : ) Been workin’ too much, I’m hoping it will pass so I can get back to kibbitzing with on-line chums ; ) How’s things?
no idea how he is as a jurist, but he has presided over numerous tech cases and he is not intimidated by these guys who are accustomed to bulldozing everyone. He takes no shit, which I respect.
You never know!
Now there’s MERS replacing property law.
Same as you: always at work but I’m not tired of it yet!
I’ll contribute $$ for the R&D/Implementation as soon as you send me a Donate Now button to click …
A person doesn’t properly appreciate work until they haven’t had it for awhile ; ) I’m delighted to hear that you remain among the ranks of the over-employed ; )
Wonder what that sheister Sunstein would say about the ideological amplification of the 1%.
Keep thinking Gaza when IP is mentioned.
But spell it out a bit more and you get something like IntProp… could serve a variety of meanings as a blog name…
Ian Welsh had a link to this Big Deal up not long ago. “The best news this year is the Court of Justice of the European Union upholding doctrine of first sale.”
(Not that Americans don’t loathe going European in matters of law…)
;o)
Jane, I’m pretty surprised and impressed that you’re picking up this topic! I am eagerly awaiting your coverage. I hope it will be broad enough to include the “pipe” element of this battle including things like net neutrality and telecom / big content mergers and collusion (Comcast and NBC being a primary recent example)…
Jane, so good to hear that Katie is acting like a pup again! Thanks for the post.
“Inside Job” is another piece that shows the paid-shill element, particularly in the realm of academe.
Good topic, looking forward to more!
PS, am becoming a repeat offender in the arrested category. . .
Probably hurt himself patting himself on the back.
Wow, B! Gonna have to knit you some jailbird socks. They like to turn down the heat & freeze you here in DC jails just for sport.
Thanks, Matthew. It’ll be one piece at a time. Hard to come to grips with all of it but I’m looking forward to the journey.
Thanks, Aitch! will do.
Once again a topic about which I knew and know very little; thank you for educating me, Jane. And many thanks for doing the same with respect to TPP. It’s very good to see you, but at the same time I hope that you will continue to ‘scout around the edges’ and find the informative subjects most of us miss. Many good, dedicated contributors here that I know have stayed through thick and thin, so this goes to all of you as well.
The incident I read about at macintouch.com (mid- or late 1990′s) didn’t involve any reselling of the software product, which was MS Office or MS Word. The company’s CEO’s assistant or staff person unwittingly installed the latest version of the lawfully obtained software, although the software was not purchased as part of a multiple-use license, only single use, and installed on one computer device only. The Terms of Agreement of the software license — once opened and agreed to upon installation — permitted the licensee to uninstall the software from the computer/device and install it in another device, i.e., the software could not be installed and used on more than one computer at a time.
The staff assistant had not uninstalled the software from the first computer, and used the original discs to install the product on the CEO’s office computer. This violated the TOA and TOS that were agreed to (at least two times). Microsoft discovered the violation, confronted the company’s Board of Trustees, the Board understood the ramifications of its CEO being accused of software theft or piracy (but not counterfeiting), and in exchange for Microsoft’s silence agreed to a long-term contract. I recall the amount as $50 million.
(Obviously Microsoft hadn’t discovered Monsanto’s patented trick of making the original software infertile.) ;o)
IP (intellectual property) rights is (are?) an integral part of the TPP negotiations. President Obama seldom makes a statement about trade, international relations, or the economy without mentioning “intellectual property”.
Even the best judges are confounded by the intersection of potentially competing legal issues, and even the best lawyers get outsmarted. Two instances (from memory, sorry):
A case about the privacy rights of software code (the code was private and essentially secret) was halted when the defendant (being sued for sharing the code he had created) showed up wearing a t-shirt with the code printed on it as an expression of free speech. The judge stood up and cursed, walked back and forth cursing, and adjourned the hearing until he could figure out what to do next.
In another incident, three software engineers had written a paper which spelled out code that would override or disable the copy-protection code that was part of a lot of new commercial entertainment products (music CDs and the then-new DVDs). These software engineers were scheduled to present their paper at an academic conference at the University of Pittsburgh. Lawyers on behalf of the RIAA (entertainment industry watchdogs) threatened the three software engineers with lawsuits if they presented their paper. Even though the engineers knew well that they would win any such suit if it even went to court, they also understood that they would probably lose all their money ‘defending’ themselves. (What you don’t know makes lawyers rich.) They were successfully chilled and withdrew their paper from the conference.
However, the next day they published it (anonymously) on the Internet with impunity. ;o)
pun time:
The elites really do believe that they own all of creation.
OT, but I thought Feingold was on the short list for SC.
;)
Yes, indeed. I got interested because of the impact it would have on my native land, New Zealand, but the ramifications are frighteningly broad.