Standing just behind President Obama in the Oval Office, I watched last week as the new President signed his name to three Executive Orders that will put our country in a stronger position to fight Al Qaeda.
I was one of 16 retired Generals and Admirals the White House invited to a signing ceremony of orders that ban torture, close the Guantanamo Bay detention facility, and end the CIA’s use of secret prisons.
Just before the signing ceremony, sitting in the Roosevelt Room, our group spoke to President Obama and Vice President Biden about the impact his action would have on national security. The President spoke – without notes – for several minutes about why he thought that signing these orders was the right thing to do.
As Rear Admiral John Hutson told the New York Times afterwards, "President Obama gets it." He had an impressive understanding of the nuance and arguments (on both sides) relating to interrogation policy.
He noted that he would be criticized if the United States faced another terrorist attack. Yet, he said he was convinced that a clear anti-torture policy would make us safer. General Paul Kern – a four-star General who co-led an investigation into abuses at Abu Ghraib – told the President that our group of Generals and Admirals was there to support him precisely because humane interrogation tactics will put us in a stronger position to achieve our national security objectives.
When I first learned of the abuses at Abu Ghraib I never thought it would take a new administration and several executive orders to put a stop to practices that were so obviously wrong and not in the United States’ interest.
In 2004, I started to talk to other military officers about abuses – not just at Abu Ghraib but in Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and other parts of Iraq too. The officers I spoke to were universally opposed to the use of Gestapo tactics to get detainees to talk.
History has shown repeatedly that torture does not work. It produces poor information; it weakens the morale of the forces that employ it; and it turns local populations against you.
Though we were united in our opposition, we did not have a forum to express our concerns.
In December of 2004, Human Rights First, a New York City-based human rights group, organized an extraordinary, closed-door meeting of retired Generals and Admirals to discuss the use of torture. The meeting brought together dozens of retired officers including a former chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, four star generals and other prominent military leaders.
In my 27-year career, I had only met once with another four-star General. Now I was sitting in a room with several of them and all of us were opposed to the use of torture.
In the years that followed we worked with Human Rights First, lobbying the administration and Congress. We expanded our group as we encountered more and more Generals and Admirals who were willing to be outspoken about the need to ban torture.
During the 2008 Presidential primaries we offered to meet with every candidate for an off-the-record discussion of the issue. When we met with Senator Biden, he joked, "as someone who lived through the 60′s I never thought I would see the day when a group of Generals was working closely with a human rights group!"
On the day of the signing of the Executive Orders, Vice President Biden told us that both he and the President had discussed the meetings they had with our group and concluded that they were among the most "memorable" and "important" meetings of the primary campaign.
Just before we left the Roosevelt Room – where the long oval shaped table is shiny but pock-marked from the nervous scratching of generations of White House staffers – President Obama spoke to us about the awesome responsibility he felt as Commander-in-Chief in making decisions that could affect the lives of millions of Americans. General Kern told him that as military officers we understood what it was like to have to make decisions when lives hung in the balance.
We walked a few feet from the windowless Roosevelt Room to the Oval Office where the President sat down behind his desk as the press was ushered into the room. As the press snapped pictures and cameras rolled, the President explained to the press who we were.
"The individuals who are standing behind me represent flag officers who came to both Joe and myself, and all the candidates, and made a passionate plea that we restore the standards of due process and the core constitutional values that have made this country great, even in the midst of war, even in dealing with terrorism," the President said. "They’ve made an extraordinary impression on me. They are outstanding Americans, who have fought and defended this country, and for them to fight on behalf of our constitutional ideals and values, I think, is exceptional, so I wanted to make sure that they were here to witness the signing of this executive order."
He took out his pen, signed the document before him and said, "there you go." Like that the President undid some of the worst excesses of the Bush administration.
There will be grumblings in some quarters but I, like so many of my fellow military officers, am confident that the move will help restore the United States stature in the world. And I am certain this day will be remembered as a turning point in the struggle with Al Qaeda.
I am proud to have been there.
James P. Cullen is a retired Brigadier General in the United States Army Reserve Judge Advocate General’s Corps and last served as the Chief Judge (IMA) of the U.S. Army Court of Criminal Appeals. He currently practices law in New York City.



120 Comments




Thank you, Sir, for providing the background for this. We rejoiced that he signed the order, but I didn’t realize your part in it. I had read that there were a number of Generals protesting Bush’s policies. I’m so glad you were there. :)
Welcome, and thanks so much for posting this and reaching out to our community, General.
Thank you, Sir, for your courage.
I think I speak for the majority of us here at Firedoglake when I thank you from the bottom of my heart for your patriotism, courage and service. Bless you!
Welcome to the Lake, General. Thank you for supporting the proud traditions of not only the US military but the US itself.
Bravo Sir! Thank you for your service and courage in speaking out.
DIGG is open, please exercise your constitutional right to speak up and share the love.
“Though we were united in our opposition, we did not have a forum to express our concerns.”
Sir, you have a forum now. Here. While we will not agree on evrything, we will not silence you, and will agree to disagree.
We have the same objective, the protection of the United States and its people. We will sometime disagree on the means; that is the nature of the free speech and democracy we all cherish.
Please write here frequently. What we respect is your Honour.
Diggs aren’t registering here or at Oxdown, but the digg is definitely open.
What do you think of a South Africa style Truth Commission for the little fish? And War Crimes Trials after we got the information from the little fish we try and fry the Big Fish?
You have to tell everything to the truth commission if you leave something out you could be prosecuted.
Plus even if you did not torture but have information that could be included in the public record.
Thank you for your clear call to do what is right.
I am glad to welcome you here today.
If torture does not work why was Bush so hot to try it? I assume that you and your friends the Commanders on the Ground that Bush says he listens to must have said something.
Why did he think he knew best?
this is one very welcome post, and honor to read your writings here general and though it might be cliché to you I MUST thank you for your on going service!
I WISH there were more voices like your own and I wish those voices would take to TASK those people who actually believe there can be possible results from torture
through policies of torture we get less information not more, we get actionable information not actionable, we waste assets, we waste time
information is lost and assets are used researching wild goose chases, security events are not prevented they are facilitated from our policies condoning torture
those are the obvious practical implications, there are other obvious implications but they don’t become obvious till told, then once told they are clear as day;
if my brother, friend, son, friends friend is ever tortured that body turns me and all my friends into terrorists
that is something that I cannot believe is not pointed out in the corporate propaganda while it tries to defend Cheney and his actions against our country and Constitution.
each person tortured breads legions more terrorists, each action of torture will create another attempt at terrorism in retaliation and retribution
our policies of touter turn advocates into enemies, moderates into radicals, radicals into terrorists, terrorists into heroes.
a person who might have been sympathetic to our cause will NEVER volunteer information for fear of that torture
and there will be NO willing surrenders, each person will fight to the death rather then face the prospect of torture.
here’s the real travesty;
the administration was informed of those very results, that they would incite terrorism not prevent it, that they would create terrorists not disabuse them, that they would cause events not eliminate them, that they would create insurgency.
they knew the results of these policies, they were informed what would happen before the initiated their policy
it becomes brutally clear they did not want to “win the hearts and minds” of the middle east, it becomes clear they wanted unending unrest
so to prove that last paragraph is not hyperbole, we have the record of cheney who invented data that undermined Nixon’s treaty of détente, way back then he proved to us he did not want peace and would do whatever it might take to prevent it
Thank you once again general for a terrific post
Thank you for your courage. It is inspiring to see military officers band together to defend the constitution.
We truly live in a very great country where military leaders, instead of using their power to seize more power and subjugate citizens, actually defend civil liberties and the rule of law.
So very inspriring! The founders would be so proud of your group!
Thank you General Cullen.
Please allow me to join the others here in thanking you, sir.
Does Bush view himself as a Roman style Patriarch and the rest of us as Plebes to be entertained by Bread and Circuses, oh and reruns of “24″ and other TV propaganda that justifies torture?
I neglected to mention a very important fact that cannot be ignored yet it isn’t spoken at all;
the policies against torture PROTECT our soldiers and having policies that endorse torture put them at far greater peril
this fact was told to theese sociopaths known as rumsfeld and cheney and they just….did….not….care.
Oh what a brave new world that has folks such as these in it!
Sure, they were always there. Thank you, General, for the service you have given to this point. Thank you, again and again, for participating in and reporting this fantastic occasion. There are many more trials for our President to overcome, to be sure; but, the fact that people such as yourself have seen President Obama in action, spoken with him and found him intelligent and well versed with the nuance of such delicate situations…it bodes well. It gives me joy.
There’s a long way to go and a short time to get there…but this bodes well!
Thank you, General. Your courage is our example.
Thank you, sir.
Man I sure hope General Cullen is here or stops by to chat, this is a very important issue
What can you tell us about the School For the Americas lots of stories that they teach people to torture there.
I rarely comment during the day, but I wanted to express my gratitude. Thank you for your work in restoring constitutional values to our great country.
We torture but I have not seen any news stories about Iraq’s or Muslims torturing us are there any cases reported?
I would think the Media would trumpet stories like that but I have heard none?
Digg seems to be working for me at least so Digg!
thank you, general cullen.
one of the most disgraceful aspects to this entire ‘debate’ is how the media enlists political hacks to yammer — instead of former military and human rights activists — who actually have thought long and hard about this issue. and the consequences to this nation when torture is advocated and employed.
hopefully, this country is on the long road to recovery of its values and rights.
I believe we have heads cut off, burned bodies and hangings from bridges
to be sure our men are tortured, more so that we do it to them
Thank you for allowing for allowing us a reminder that opposition to cruelty is a tradition.
Thank you. Thank you very much.
Just who would try Bush for War Crimes?
Congress impeaches a President but Bush is no longer President.
War crimes in the past were I believe judged by the military as Commander and Chief Would Bush then be judged by Generals?
Or by the Supreme Court where he and his Dad picked many of the members?
Cutting a Head off is execution, as long as the body is burned after its dead its desecrating a Corpse sure its sick and a crime.
But its not the same as doing it to a person when they are alive.
Also why isn’t the Media filled with stories about how they torture are troops then?
Decency? Bush lied about WMD to start the war I see no reason why he would not push a torture story if it was true.
Citizen BrigGenJamesCullen:
I am an old enlisted veteran and I confess to a certain amount of incredulity toward field grade officers that rises proportionate to the increase in rank …until this moment! You and your fellow officers who have stood behind our new President on the issue of torture and have worked so hard since 2004 on this issue, deserve the highest praise and thanks of your fellow citizens. I just hope that your attitude reflected in these actions is shared by the majority of the active duty brass.
Again, thank you, SIR!! And may the spirits of those we left behind lift your burden and put a hitch in your step.
Although extremely unlikely, impeachment does not require the person being impeached to still be in office as there is punishment beyond removal from office associated with it.
They apparently behead WSJ reporters.
I find I can’t get through this post without tears. So much has happened.
So much trauma in the world that simply did not have to be.
A change and a new beginning, with hope for the future. Thank you for inviting us in to witness that momentous action by our new President.
Deep thanks to you Sir. I am sure the door marked “Welcome” will always be open for you at the Firedoglake communitiy.
Thank you for your service to our country both in the military and out
Thank you, sir.
That reporter in Pakistan? They probably thought he was a CIA spy you catch a spy in war time well they are often executed I’m not sure its a warcrime.
The CIA has Masqueraded as reporters before.
Thank you, General. It’s an honor to hear from you.
Welcome, General! Thank you for your extreme service to our country and our servicemen with your resignation. The fact that so many of you resigned in the face of outrageous policy is a tribute to the oath you all swore tot he Constitution. You have earned my highest respect.
Please come back often – no doubt you have more contributions to make.
I’m talking about Daniel Pearl. Very well known WSJ reporter. Doubt he did CIA work on the side.
Sir, may I say WOW. Just wow. I’m not sure you can imagine (but maybe you can) how deeply grateful I am, we are, that there are people like you in service to this country — individuals who take seriously the matter of protecting and defending not only the people but the Constitution, and who have Barack Obama’s ear. This is enormous. Thank you so much.
If you don’t mind my asking General how did FireDogLake get so Lucky to have you here?
Thanks for being here I’ll check back later I hope you answer a few of my questions.
:)
Al Quieda didn’t know that
Thank you, Gen. Cullen. In the coming months, I hope to see more of you and your comrades-in-arms batting down the cruel, clueless, sadistic assertions of those armchair “warriors” on the Beltway (Richard Cohen, Ruth Marcus, David Ignatius, David Broder, Fred Hiatt, etc. ad nauseam), when they claim that Bush administration officials should not be prosecuted for war crimes.
I think the general isn’t here live. Think he just posted the diary.
I believe the president missed a very important opportunity right there;
I believe he should have said;
“we know there is less information obtained with torture and we create more instances against us, it is not only the right thing to do morally, it is the best thing to do for national security”
man, that would have been the smack down proponents of torture needed
Citizen SouthernDragon:
BooYah Brother Dragonman…this is indeed a different kind of brass that will step up and put it out there in front of his troops instead of behind ‘em…where do ya think our erstwhile leader Gen Wastemoreland woulda come down on torutre? Never mind, we all know because he was in fron tof it, behind it on top of it and all over it!
Good ta hear from ya bro…oh, by the way I go in for an angiogram and a stent on Monday, maybe they ken clean out what’s left of the stink from the cordite and blood of another generation. Keep the faith bro and maybe we will see a change.
Thank you, General Cullen, not only for this article which warms our hearts but also for sharing with us the knowledge that many of your colleages joined you in actively supporting human rights and the rule of law after retirement from active duty as well as during your career.
Please join us often and share your views of past, present and proposed future events which so vitally effect our country.
We have several fine veterans here at Firedoglake; you can be proud of them.
Oh one last thing A book club discussion of the “Art of War” and mistakes made in Iraq with a General would be incredible!
as I have said many times, torture does work for the purpose it is intended
that purpose is not to gain information, that purpose is imposing fear and fueling unrest and insurgency
this was deliberate
ya, there were beheadings alive tcu
And, General, I’m very proud of the JAG and their honor in the Guantanamo investigations. You all have faced down a monstrous thing.
Could be my theory is that Darth Really Really likes watching.
Ok I got to go.
Norske! Having just done a wee stint (vs. stent) in the cardio unit, I have a greater appreciation of your health situation. Hope the procedure leaves you feeling peachy when you recover from it! :-) Yup, peachy.
Norske, dear heart – best wishes!
Although I agree with your stance on torture, Obama’s order has too many holes in it. It was just a political show and nothing else.
Whats worse a quick death or torture and be sexually humiliated by photos that all your friends see anyone held by the Americans is assumed to have been tortured and worse.
Give me a quick death anyday.
Heh. OT. Someone who had previously served time for financial fraud, somehow managed to set up a $370 million Ponzi scheme. Sucker born every minute.
Yes, thank you. I still have two questions as to whether 1)the EO still permits the CIA to use interrogation methods not covered by the Army Field Manual which could amount to torture or 2)if even used in series the techniques permitted in the AFM could also constitute torture (this was in part the finding of Convening Authority Crawford recently).
Thank you, General.
Speaking as a former officer (a not-so-good lieutenant) and a current civilian lawyer, I cannot tell you how ashamed I felt over my service over twenty years ago in the same uniform, when the reports of the conduct of soldiers – not just at Abu Ghraib, but at Gitmo, Bagram, and elsewhere – started coming to light. I knew, in the way people who have been in the military know, that what we were seeing then was both the tip of the iceberg and not an accident or mistake. It’s been said there are two places where things like Abu Ghraib don’t “just happen” and those are in the military and in a jail. Things like that don’t “just happen” there because the structures and organizations are such that the inertia of the chain of command (if nothing else) prevents them or stops them before they get too big. It was immediately clear to me that it was bigger – that the chain of command had been perverted – because crimes like those don’t just happen and continue unless the chain of command tolerates it.
It turned out my intuition was right. A friend of a friend was the media person whose mouse click let the Abu Ghraib pictures out and, from talking to this person at that time, it was clear to me that their coming out was a very near-run thing. DoD’s civilian hierarchy was working the media very hard to keep them under wraps and, as it turned out, the media outlet’s email packed up and this person went with the last one received, which said “let them out”.
In that conversation, this person asked me “you’re a lawyer and you were in the Army, so you might know. Are we committing war crimes?” I almost wept when I responded “it’s long since gone past that.”
Thanks so much, to you and your fellow flag officers. Now, can we ask you and your colleagues to work on the President about the misuse of the NSA and warrantless wiretapping? If you’ve been following this site, you know that the bunch of very smart people here have figured out it’s probably worse than the torture. It just hasn’t come to the surface yet, and we cannot seem to get the President’s attention to it.
And someone who failed to pay their taxes is now the Treasury Secretary. Suckers.
I’m less concerned about Geithner’s tax situation than I am about the fact that he had regulatory authority over investment banks and did nothing. Even after his speech wherein he identified the problem.
The meltdown is flushing out many of the cockroaches but I still maintain the biggest Ponzi scheme of all is the house of cards we call our financial system. Even Madoff was a piker compared to those who headed the big commercial and investment banks, umm such as Paulson.
When I was in the hospital recently, I heard a dainty little version of “Twinkle Twinkle Little Star” played over the intercom from time to time. Turns out they played it each time a baby was born. Once there were two playings, close together. Twins. Sucker born every minute. You know what? It’s up to us to protect those babies now that they’re out in the world. Republicans had ‘em in utero, I guess. But now they’re ours.
Wishing you all the best with the procedures Norske. We want you here for a long time to come raising hell.
Thank you, James. Seems Obama and Biden are the real deal: we be thanking our lucky stars, huh. So great that Obama acted so quickly on this and wonderful to hear your story. We need to completely stamp out this cancer on our country.
The day before Maher Arar was picked (illegally) up in NY and (later illegally) rendered to Syria for torture, Omar Khadr ”identified” him as a visitor to an al Qaeda safe house in Pakistan, from a black and white photograph. Omar Khadr was a teenager at the time. Omar Khadr was tortured in Afghanistan and at GitMo. Maher Arar is completely innocent and has never even been to Afghanistan or Pakistan. This is just one single story of how the fight against extremism is harmed by these methods and the innocent are suppressed by stupidity and cruelty.
And the vets at the ’lake are my favorites! yo, Raven: come home!
Yep on all counts. The only thing that made this particular Ponzi scheme tickle my funny bone is that the perp had been convicted of financial fraud.
echan, you have mail
Oh, I agree, just pointing out the irony of another current event.
In response to Hugh, technically speaking Social Security is actually a ponzi scheme (by definition), new investors paying out old investors. So that is the biggest of all.
Yep. Pretty weak regulators when a convicted financial fraudster is able to set up a fund to steal OPM.
Thanks. Great quotes.
Is Raven gone again?
Citizen barbara:
Has there been a Raven siting lately?
Thank you, sir, so very much for posting this information. I am appalled that our country is one that discusses “pros” and “cons” of torture as though it were ever an option. I share your shock at the need for a new administration to uphold the Geneva convention treaty.
last time I saw Raven, he was put off by the discussion ######### at the inaugural. he’ll come back when he’s ready, I suppose. I hope so!
I haven’t seen him, but my comings and going here are more random than usual lately.
barbara @ 74: … unless he’s showed up in the last couple of days … yeah, it looks like it. but you say ”again” so i do hope it’s only a matter of time! he got flustered with the ”objectivity” about Obama, i think, but i find his short, pithy comments help me keep my sanity often!
Come Home Raven!!!!
Scribe! this is a diary post in and of itself. (((scribe)))
If you are talking about his September 2006 Hong Kong speech (http://www.newyorkfed.org/newsevents/speeches/2006/gei060914.html), he really didn’t. I wrote an oxdown diary on that back in November. He basically said in that speech that there could be some shocks to the system but the real economy would always be there to bail them out and the diversity of players (hedge funds for example) and instruments (like derivatives) would mitigate any negative effects. It is to laugh. Still he was at the New York Fed since 2003 and had a ringside seat to the rise of the housing and oil bubbles and the deregulation driven nuttiness that was going on and I agree he did nothing. And then there is his role in the Bear Stearns, AIG, and Lehman decisions.
wow, obama does an interview and comes up with some keepers;
that comes from Yesterday, President Obama sat down with Dubai-based Al-Arabiya television for his first formal interview in office.
The Constitution provides not merely for removal from office upon conviction for an impeachable offense, but also disqualification to hold and enjoy any office of honor, trust, or profit under the United States.
While it is obviously too late to effect removal from office by the impeachment process, it is not too late to ensure that key figures from the Bush administration do not reappear in future ones, as Cheney and Rumsfeld, for example, were recycled from prior Republican administrations.
The unanimous impeachment of Sec of War William Belknap for profiteering during the Civil War establishes that civil officers can be impeached even after they have left office. Congress should therefore impeach Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Gonzales (at minimum) so that “[their] infamy might be rendered conspicuous, historic, eternal, in order to prevent the occurrence of like offenses in the future.”
In addition to all else, would impeachment nullify their retirement benefits? Because I gotta tell you, that really agitates my colon.
Norske,
The force is width ya. Peace,now and always.
perris: Obama’s demeanor in that interview was amazing!!!! he has a great way (i am learning) on inhabiting his efforts fully: his face was incredibly open in a very ”unpolitical” way and he spoke softly tho’ emphatically. it was quite different from his other appearances, even the personal interviews with Michelle! i am in awe of his courage to take this on with his whole being. one arab cnn commentater said he was ”giddy” about the effect this would have on the landscape of the fight against terrorism! Obama is communicating on an emotional as well as diplomatic level.
Well only to an extent. The surpluses are a scam because they are just a regressive tax on the lower and middle classes in lieu of an increase in the income tax on them. That is because the surpluses aren’t kept or invested but spent as other revenue. From 2017 to 2040, shortfalls in SS are supposed to come from the government paying back the surpluses (it spent) out of general revenues. So basically taxpayers shelled out trillions for these mythical surpluses which the government spent and will still have the commitments for shortfalls between 2017 and 2040 that they would have anyway, even if there had not been a single cent of surplus. The payback from general revenues will put a cramp on government spending during this period.
Where the comparison fails however is that from 2040 to something like 2080, SS could even without changes still pay 74% of its commitments. If you take caps off FICA, you could solve the SS funding situation indefinitely into the future.
Medicare is the fiscal bomb in entitlements and is why we really need to move to single payer universal healthcare.
I never said it was going to crumble anytime soon, I said it is structured exactly the same as a ponzi scheme.
If medicare is so mismanaged what makes you think that the government would be able to handle universal care efficiently?
Medicare isn’t mismanaged. Its overhead is only about 7% versus some 25-30% in private plans. Its problem is that it is underfunded in relation to its needs. It is a classic case of cherrypicking. Private plans pick up mostly younger healthier people who are cheaper to insure whereas Medicare picks up older and iller Americans who are more expensive to cover.
Thank you sir, for your stand on this issue, and for your honorable service to this country.
bingo, great post
medicare is proof government does things FAR more efficiently then private business
Thank you Sir. Recently, I received an ACLU survey asking me to rate what I thought was important: e.g., stopping torture, closing Gitmo, stopping warrentless surveillance, restoring habeus corpus, etc. I honestly could not rate any of these things because they’re all important and part and parcel of the same thing. A lot of damage has been done at home and abroad, and I don’t know how long it will take to fix it. Please, please keep up the good work.
Thank you General Cullen for your work on this important issue and for taking the time to write this diary. I hope to read more from you here at Oxdown.
There are reliable reports that Pfc. Kristian Menchaca, Pfc. Thomas L. Tucker, were tortured befored being put to death by their captors.
Your reference to decapitation I presume is to Pfcs. Menchaca and Tucker.
Burned bodies and hangings from bridges is a reference to the mercenaries killed in Fallujah. Their bodies were set alight and hung after they were killed.
How’s Thursday?
Thank you, General Cullen! I have to believe the repudiation of torture will go a long way toward restoring the greatness of this country.
Thank you Sir for standing up against Torture. Our country has never condoned torture and it never should. Again thank you and the other officers for being so brave to stand up to the last Administration and voice your opinions!
The problem is, even though a majority of the citizens of the US do not condone torture, those in power in Washington for the last 8 years do not follow that same belief and have condoned torture in our names.
So whether we like it or not, we have condoned torture by allowing them to stay in power.
Whoa whoa whoa, those numbers are unbelievebly skewed and twisted. You really think the government is efficient? Are you nuts?
sorry to disabuse the myth but government rendering of “the commons” is ALWAYS more efficient then private industry
the commons are services that everyone needs, for instance roads, bridges, money, health care.
one thing most people don’t realise is that when it comes to private industry, “supply vs demand” does NOT dicatate price, nor does the cost of producing a good or serice, price is dicated only by what people will pay…if cost or supply dictated price niles would go for about ten dollars and baseball tickets would mpt be cheaper then football tickets
services that fall into “the commons” cannot be run efficiently by private industry, they have a profit model, run by government (no matter how inefficient) has a cost vs price model, even with courruption it’s cheaper to do it by government in just about every case
the only time private industry is going to be cheaper then government is if that private industry has to compete against government, then they have to price attractively to seduce consumers from the government service
no matter how “inneficient” corporate media portrays government excess, (ie the 500 dollar hammer and corruption) private industries profit model makes up that efficiency and adds exponential dividends such as golden parachutes, shipping jobs overseas, destroying public water and air.
In NYC, there’s a courthouse at 52 Chambers St that might cause you to rethink ALWAYS.
“always” was a bad choice, however imagine if that same courthouse were private same players
worse
I happen to agree with you, but suffer from poor impulse control. Treatment for which is not covered under my plan.
General Cullen, thank you for what you have done. please don’t stop now, there is still much to be done:
from Allan Nairn: The torture ban that doesn’t ban torture
I don’t think that Obama has the authority to issue a world-wide ban on torture.
I’m unsure that there is any good reason to distrust Obama on this, as Allen Naim seems to do, The position of the new administration seems clear, and absent any evidence, what’s the point to Naim’s statement?
Thanks for answering
Then your going Wednesday.
I’m already pretty far gone.
..and to cases like this
****************
” Prosecutors said the two judges worked with those who ran the Pennsylvania Child Care Facility to get it open, keep it in operational and keep juvenile defenders filling the beds there in exchange for $2.6 million in kickbacks. Court documents show the judges even sent young people to the detention center who should not have been in custody. “
http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=9731655
it’s exactly what he says. that if we want to say that we’ve stopped torturing then then we have to stop paying, training and protecting from justice people who torture on our behalf.
I understand the sense of his words. What I don’t understand is how he can reasonably expect Obama to have done more than he has within the time frame or on what basis can he doubt Obama’s words that we are out of the torture business.
Does he have any reason to think that Obama has had or will have people tortured by anyone in the world?
did you read the article at the link? if not, may i suggest you do? if you still have questions after that i’d be happy to answer them, but i think the article is clear that he never stated any such expectation.
Yes I had read it and I understand what he’s saying and he is pretty much in accord with what I know and believe to be true.
What I don’t understand is what does he think that Obama could have done during this past week to change the last 50 years. Does he think that all of the people who are in some way allied with us or supported by us can simply be told to immediately stop the things that we don’t like?
he doesn’t say that we should tell them to stop, he say that we could tell them we will stop supporting the use of torture. he says that the EO should not have been unnecessarily narrow.
please don’t put words or ideas in the piece that just aren’t there.
Selise, the portion of the order quoted, as I read it, is very broad.
Keep in mind that the order is issued as a repeal of guidelines from the last administration.
Saying that it doesn’t cover torture by Americans outside of armed conflicts, as he notes, is quite true. However, there is no reason why it should. Such conduct is already outlawed.
So what is it that Obama has failed to do?
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General Cullum,
Oh my god. Thank you so much for speaking out and supporting our new president. He has had so much popular support, but the military support of the rank and file has been missing. Please use your influence to allow the kids to see television other than FOX news. (faux snooze)
Dugg and recommended