After an attempt to cap the leaking oil well in the Gulf of Mexico proved unsuccessful this weekend, officials are scrambling to come up with another solution to stop the hundreds of thousands of gallons of oil that flood our coastal waters each day.
But whether it’s a product of mounting public pressure or an actually valid plan, BP’s latest solution is guaranteed to raise some eyebrows.
Using a method known as "junk shot," BP plans to clog the pipe with large quantities of plastic and rubber trash items, such as tires and golf balls. Has this ever been done before? Yes, in fact, unlike the dome method, oil companies have plugged leaks using the "junk shot" method before.
But has it ever been done at a depth of 5,000 ft? No, and scientists are warning that employing such a method in a situation ‘beyond experience’ could actually make things worse, causing crews to lose control of the well and spill even more of its contents into the Gulf.
I came across this Google Maps mashup that takes the Gulf slick and allows you to compare its size with different places or landmarks in the world. I tried a couple just to put the size of the slick in perspective, and imagine a) how bad things are now and b) how bad things could potentially become.
1. The Slick
This is a close up of the slick where it presently sits, just outside the Mississippi Delta.
2. Long Island
I live in New York, so I wanted to bring the slick closer to home in order try and really understand the size of this mess. To my surprise, I found the spill to be larger than Long Island.
3. San Fransisco
That got me thinking about other cities, like San Fransisco. I wanted to see how far the spill would stretch between locales, as well as compared to some land marks like the San Fransisco bay.
4. Crawford, TX

Then, for kicks, there’s Crawford, TX, home to the infamous Bush family ranch– which some might call a landmark, too. Here’s what the spill would look like if the Deepwater Horizon was sitting in Bush’s backyard.
5. The Grand Canyon
But the most obvious landmark in the US in terms of size would be the Grand Canyon (highlighted roughly in yellow).
6. Israel
Finally, I started thinking about the slick compared to the size of other countries; I thought this comparison, showing the slick to be about a third the size of Israel, was particularly striking.
Nevermind the fact, for a moment, that we’re having a serious conversation about pumping tons of high-pressured garbage into a pipe a mile below the surface of the ocean– that idea alone may strike you as you please.
More importantly, the huge consequences that belie this quirky plan are what leaves us with an unfortunate catch-22: Do we use a practically unproven method to quickly staunch the flow of oil into the Gulf, despite the fact that failure could mean an even greater catastrophe? Or do we spend precious time trying to formulate a better idea, while the the slick continues to grow and begins to make landfall in some of our most fragile coastal areas?
I personally don’t know the answer. It could be naivete on the subject of offshore drilling that leads me to believe every idea for stopping the leaks so far has seemed far-fetched. From talk of actually nuking the seabed to setting the ocean on fire, I wouldn’t be all that surprised if BP advocated duct tape next.
But either way, before we judge future risks, we should consider our present disaster.
I’d love to hear your thoughts on the Gulf crisis and BP’s newest plan to use the "junk shot" method; please share your thoughts (and even your own comparison images) in the comments!



108 Comments

I can’t make myself comment anymore.
There’s just top much anger floating thru my bloodstream. Anger at the oil companies for getting away with it again. Anger at Obama for letting them not only get away with it now, but allowing them to continue doing it in the future. Anger at congress for letting money dictate thier actions.
All I have is anger and hate anymore about this situation. I wait for my revolution.
The revolution may be a lifeless gulf, followed by a lifeless earth.
The revolution would be nature shaking off mankind to live.
A situation like this is difficult, particularly because the ‘revolution’ (no matter its form) will have to take place after it’s already ‘too late.’ The damage will be done and we’ll already be paying the price.
Let’s at least hope this revolution will finally bring a fundamental change to the ways in which we pursue and fulfill our energy needs.
At this point, I would be rooting for nature. We have proven ourselves to be a catastrophe as a species.
Thanks Brian, the visuals are VERY helpful.
fwiw, I thought this was a really workable solution put forth on a recent David Dayen thread: BP Mulls Its Next Move As Oil Gusher Persists
Thanks for the pics. Maybe BP can fill up the Grand Canyon!!! Get rid of one of those big ditches in real america that bother christian fundamentalists because it brings up too many unnecessary questions about geology.
Did you know that if every single person on earth was put in a pine coffin 18x18x72 inches and stacked in the Grand Canyon, there would still be room to spare??!?!?!
One thing for sure is that the regulators and law MUST require an acoustic blowout valve for every existing offshore well and any new ones.
I have only one thing to add to this photographic display of scale.
;>)
This is scary as hell: Natural New.com
Can someone tell me if this is possible? Is this junk science? I could read the entire article cause I got too angry.
That’s an exaggeration.
The gulf will recover, although it will take time.
It won’t kill all life on earth, either.
Brian, thanks. Want you and FDL to know how much I appreciate the fact you’re writing about this, featuring this, and trying to at least do something positive (articles and media ad, which I donated to).
I continue to shower the area with Love. Sending so much Love there.
Thanks again for the care you put into your post.
Boo, there is no f*cking way that they can pump concrete into anything that’s five thousand feet down.
For one thing, the concrete will set long before it can get there.
For another, the technology to pump concrete 5000 feet doesn’t exist.
Wow, just wow!
Okay this “junk shot” is a really stupid idea for several reasons but the one that leaps to my mind is that this oil is already overcoming the pressure of a MILE OF WATER so how in the world do they expect to inject garbage under enough pressure to cap a leak that’s already overcoming that kind of pressure? This is stupid and it’s just going to make things worse by creating tons of floating, oil slicked insoluble objects. Not only stupid but f***ing stupid.
Link?
“Junk shot”?
Well I can think of some [Edited by Moderator] that could be used as “junk” to cram down this well.
[Mods, this isn't over the line, is it?]
[Mod Note: Yes]
Okay. I’ll be better.
Heavens knows I am clueless on offshore drilling but has anyone thought about blowing this sucker up? The oil is 18000 feet below the ocean floor. Can’t you plant a charge like 10000 feet down the side of the pipe and blow it to heavens?? BP may not be the best ones to ask as they have a lot invested in this well and excuse me but I don’t think they give a tinkers damn about the ocean around it.
Don’t wow him he’s right.
This one spill won’t permanetly destroy the gulf nor destroy the earth.
What it is is a symptom of a much alrger sickness that will do both of those things.
when you put it that way it just proves how silly BP really is.
Did I misread this Halliburton Presentation May Explain Horizon Oil Rig Explosion and Fire?
I thought Haliburton poured the concrete casing at this depth?
Doesn’t work like that, you’d just end up making it worse. There’s pressure coming up from the well so it’s not going to collapse in on itself like that.
And fracture the surrounding rock so instead of leaking out one place, it’s leaking out of thousands? Because I think that would be the more likely result. Remember, oil isn’t in some huge cavern, it’s in porous rock.
I don’t think that is true. They already put cement around the well head when they finish drilling. I think. someone check this. In fact one of the potential causes is Halliburton’s cementing may have been faulty. They have had problems before. But then I’m not an engineer, ya know.
Bullshit.
Neither he nor you have any clue as to how much damage it will cause, when it will end, and how long it will take to recover. Virtually all of your information is from BP or infected with BP lies.
Nothing — repeat NOTHING — like this has been confronted before. We may be looking at 2 EVs every other day for months.
A statement like “The Gulf will recover; it will just take time” is not only factually unfounded, it is fucking immoral — especially coming from folks supposedly interested in protecting the environment.
You may be right but you may recall that scene in “There will be blood” where they blew up an out of control well. That is one of the techniques they use. I think they did that in Kuwait after Saddam set the wells on fire there too.
I am not sure anyone knows.
Another real nightmare scenario is a huge release of methane, which is a much more lethal GHG than CO2.
How about instead of jamming the so called “junk shot” into the well head we try jamming it up the butt of whomever had this stupid fucking idea to start with.
I think that the Gulf of Mexico will eventually recover, though it may take centuries. That doesn’t make what econobuzz said invalid though. It is entirely correct to state that this looks like it will turn into something we have never faced before as a species. And it’s not just the Gulf. This oil is going to circulate globally, it’s only a matter of time. It has the potential to affect the global climate by retarding evaporation, heat absorption, circulation, water density, etc. I don’t think it will be apocolyptic but let’s keep in mind that the environment and climate patterns were already very stressed before this leak.
This one is 18000 feet below the ocean floor. That’s three plus miles. Bet the geologists have an idea if there is any in those three miles. Maybe we should just wait until the oil just leaks out between now and August, when they drill another well. I don’t know. But if the junk shot doesn’t work then what? Let’re leak?
That technique works by blowing out the oxygen to stop the fires. No oxygen = no combustion. After that, they moved in to cap the well. This is an entirely different problem.
It’s already overcoming enough pressure to crush a vessel made of several inches of steel. Blowing up the rock isn’t going to do anything. The oil will just push the fractured rock out of the way.
No one wants to mention this, but I think they won’t be able to stop this and it will continue to leak until it’s all out. They really have no idea what they are doing and the country has no experience with a “leak” of this magnitude.
One point of detail with regards to the drawings: this “slick”, ominously shown in solid black, is almost entirely sheen about one molecule thick.
Yep. It’s more likely to stop itself when the pressure from the ocean equalizes the pressure in the well. That could be months. Even years.
PJ Evans, Sure they can pump cement down 5,000 feet. They do far more than that on almost every oil well drilled. Setting time can be adjusted as needs dictate.
However, I can’t see any way to just set forms and concrete over it. When the level of cement reaches the leak itself., it would be blown away by the oil outflow.
I don’t know that an acoustical control for the BOP would have made any difference. It seems that the BOP is just not closing, even when given a nudge from the submersibles. All the acoustical thing does is give another signal for the BOP to close. The idea has bee floated that there may be a drill collar or a sub or packer stuck in the path of the rams that is too stout for the BOP to cut.
( BOPs have three sets of rams (the actual closers of the valve), one for if there is no drill pipe in the hole, one to close around a piece of drill pipe, and a third that can cut through a piece of drill pipe).
I heard that they may be considering a hot tap into the BOP somewhere, or maybe into the casing just below the BOP. I like that idea
One piece of information I’ve never heard mention of is what the bottom hole pressure was when they reached TD. Whatever that number is, he well will continue to flow out until it drops to a level below the surrounding pressures. At 23,000 feet (18,000 drilled + 5,000 ocean depth, the pressure of the column of water will be around 11,000 psi. once the formation pressure drops below that the oil won’t be forced out, the seawater wil force its way into the formation. It’d be nice to hear more about the formation that is being drained. How big is the pay sand, how tight it is, production of any other wells in this formation, not much useful news out there.
Oh, THAT makes it better! I didn’t know BP trolled the blogs….
And, pray tell, what conclusion are we to draw from that? How would like that sheen on your family’s drinking water for 3-4 months?
What are you asking me for? I’m not an engineer. I don’t believe it will work. I think it’s a stupid idea. I’ve made that clear. Why do you then imply that I think that they should just throw up their hands and do nothing? I said or implied nothing about letting it leak.
Much appreciated.
I would like to see them *solve* the floating spill problem with some methodical, continuous, effective cleanup protocol before they try something stupid at 5,000 ft.
They seem to have only two approaches. Wipe the stuff off the beaches AND stop the gusher.
Again it’s a false choice. If they could figure out how to collect the oil at the source of the gusher, on the surface, we would be in better shape. THEN figure out how to stop the gusher.
Collecting the gushing oil is the ONLY SURE solution at this point.
We need a solution we can depend on. NOT more risky wild ass guessing.
Oh, and I don’t give a rat’s ass how many tankers it takes or how much it costs. Fuck BP. Fuck MMS.
How thick is too much, say one sixteenth of an inch? The leak is estimated at 210,000 gallons per day, which is about 28,000 cubic feet. At 1/16 of an inch this would cover 450,000 square feet, about ten acres per day. At one thousandth of an inch, it would spread over just abou one square mile.
No point to this, no judgement, just some math to amuse myself
Agreed. They made this mess, I don’t care what it costs to clean it up, as long as they are the ones paying. If it drives them into bankruptcy, so much the better. Think of where we could be if the money they are now spending to try stupid ideas, buy congress and judges and so forth had been invested in alternative energy research. There are none so blind as those who will not see.
By the time it gets through a mile of ocean to the surface, it is already too spread out to corral up. Catching it at the end of the BOP is the better plan.
The scenarios that depend on estimates of the pressures in the well are complicated by the indications that BP was drilling well below the authorized depth of 18,000. We have seen estimates of 35,000. This may be the deepest well drilled. We may not have the technology to deal with the pressures. What if the “relief” wells blow out too????
Actually we are already in the midst of a Global Extinction Wave. It’s called the sixth mass extinction and along with climate change prediction models is rather troubling for those planning for the future as they remember the past.
The BP/Transocean/Halliburton oil disaster is horrifying on many different levels, but given our general arrogance towards the planetary environment it is just one more in a series of dangerous insults. Nature bats last, as they say, and for us to believe that our governments or our armies (or navies {and btw wtf is DARPA doing about this, they have billions of our tax $$ wtf are they doing with it???}) will or can do anything to mitigate a disaster they are complicit in creating is just wishful thinking. time to get off the grid as much as you possibly can.
Yes. We are in the first and possibly only, anthropogenic mass extinction event before this latest disaster. Is there going to be anybody left to shake their heads over our folly?
thanks Brian.
I would like to see a similar shot of Exxon Valdez side by side with this – and where is the Washington DC overlay ??
our own OFG did a post on this latest, um, approach. I was far too heartsick at the time to read it – guess I’ll mosey on over to see – although I already have a damn good idea as to it’s chances for success X~o
Oh, really? According to this news story:
So much for your “one molecule thick” crap. Which oil company do you shill for?
Only the cockroaches.
Fine. Let them figure out how to do that and funnel it up to the surface. But I don’t see how anything they do is not going to be subject to the icing problems.
How about a tanker that scoops up the slick and ejects water out the bottom. I know agitation is a problem. So let them work on these problems. Let’s see some engineering solutions AT THE SURFACE where we understand the dynamics. Where the dynamics are workable.
Think gravy boats on the Thanksgiving dinner table. Oil floats to the top. Siphon off the water out the bottom.
Um, how do you “siphon off” the ocean?
Won’t the oil then sink to the bottom and lie there for 1000 years?
I watched a video this morning of two farmers demonstrating how hay can be used to grab and contain the oil. It’s simple, inexpensive & non-toxic. I do not know if this might be the perfect solution. but at the very least bales of hay could be stacked up along coastlines to protect environmentally sensitive areas like the Florida Everglades. I liken it to stacking bags of sand to protect against flooding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLXg_5Mclqs
An article I read this afternoon stated that there are only 16-18 miles of containment booms currently available to protect around 2000 miles of coastland. And, that’s not accounting for the possibility that this spill could be carried up along the east coast and into Newfoundland & Labrador. It’s just another huge indication of how unprepared the US is to respond to disasters of this nature.
I think it is a little bit exaggerated.
Sorry guys.
What I mean is collect the contaminated seawater off the surface in tankers and separate the water from the oil. Actually this is probably not possible so just scoop up the contaminated seawater and set up a disposal field somewhere to dump it. I imagine a parade of tankers collecting the slick.
It’s better than just letting it float around and land on the beaches … whenever. That’s just STUPID. While they play their boys with toys games at 5,000 ft.
The trash pumped into the well would be 500 ft, with 500 to 1000 ft of mud on top of the mud about 1000 ft of cement (probably hydraulic cement that expands on curing) on top of the mud. All pushed down the pipe with more mud.
The trash is not really “pumped” all the way down to the sea floor and deeper. The mud is pumped into the pipe and then gravity takes over.
Mud is heavier than water and heavier than oil.
There is a potentially very risky step, and that’s removing the current bent pipe from the top of the BOP and attaching the new trash/mud/cement/mud pipe to the BOP.
All all this assumes that the cement collar around the BOP is intact. The methane hydrates are concentrated in sediment in the ocean, and I wonder about the source of them the the “dome” that caused it to fail.
Unless there is more than one place on the BOP to attach all these pipes and the original pipe can be left untouched.
And I have another question. If there are so many methane (natural gas) hydrates available in the sediment in the ocean floor, why are we drilling for oil and not using this apparently readily available methane?
“how in the world do they expect to inject garbage under enough pressure to cap a leak that’s already overcoming that kind of pressure?”
Attach Obama’s mouth and then let him speak
Won’t work. Hot air rises.
Exactly. This is another example of the kind of DEPENDABLE actions that will have an impact that should be part of the response, NOW. It may not solve the problem, but it will mitigate it, and if an effort was made this might make a substantial impact.
And yeah, there aren’t enough booms.
They are also making sand berms on the beach in one parish. That stikes me as a good approach too.
The feds should be creating an action center/clearninghouse for these ideas reporting on what people are doing and what is working or not. But they won’t of course.
You mean make the hole it is squirting out of even bigger? I don’t think that is a very good idea.
I think they should just put a bigger pipe around the old broken pipe, attach a huge hydrostatic hose to it and go ahead and passively bring the oil on up that way, in a biologically contained manner, to the surface to be pumped into waiting tankers.
Water and oil can be separated it happens all the time. I think you have made a very good and valid point. I have called it the ShopVac approach. You hire freigters to vacuum up as much oil as they can.
The problem is that BP cannot make any money paying people to do that.
My point is POTTERY BARN rules, BP broke it, BP owns all the oil floating in the Gulf. It is their job to get it out.
Yes you can separate oil & water. It requires laminar flow of the oil/water fluid, not turbulent flow, and has to be absent wave action.
My husband, a geologist, not an oil geologist, told me years ago that the depositional environment of the gulf was just terrific for making oil and gas. There are going to be vast deposits at deep depths, and the deeper they are, the more they are under pressure.
My own judgement from watching this unfold, especially the huge amounts of “unexpected” crystalized gas they have encountered, is that the potential amount of explosive power could be huge. I would be very careful to not make that hole bigger. I think they should put more effort into making their collecting can work, cut the top off and put a bigger pipe on it so it doesn’t jam up with crystalized gas.
Do whatever it takes to make the oil and gas go up the pipe instead of out into the water. I am losing all patience with their slowness and incompetence.
Was the Gulf Oil Spill an Act of War? You Betcha
http://www.truthout.org/was-gulf-oil-spill-act-war-you-betcha59224
“The feds should be creating an action center/clearninghouse for these ideas reporting on what people are doing and what is working or not. But they won’t of course.”
Too busy on the cocktail circuit to let things like major disasters get in the way.
“Water and oil can be separated it happens all the time. I think you have made a very good and valid point. I have called it the ShopVac approach. You hire freigters to vacuum up as much oil as they can.
The problem is that BP cannot make any money paying people to do that.”
Actually I think BP still could make money because the oil industry uses that technology now. They are called oil coalescers these pieces of equipment are designed to do that. I got a first hand introduction to them when I got a job working on an oil rig in California. It turns out that the oil is very poor quality because it is thick and gunky, so in order to get it up to the surface steam is sent down to loosen it up. Then once the oil has been brought up the water is separated from it in the oil coalescer. The same thing could be done on a larger scale with the Gulf of Mexico where not only is the oil cleaned up, but it could then be sold.
Thanks.
I hope you are right.
I’m glad to see that Holiday Inn Express had so many customers last night. Maybe the economy will recover.
The sand traps are layers of mud, sand and organic matter that eventually, under heat and high pressure, ‘cook’ all that dead organic material, with the oil and gas rising to the ‘top’, where it is contained underground by a layer of rock. Punch a hole in that rock and the lightweight oil and gas are going to come squirting out. With this explosive pressure and so much gas, the idea of just capping it is probably ridiculous.
The only other option is to contain it.
Obviously they have not been forced to spend enough money on planning or preparing for that part of the endeavor. Like did you see this? Don’t miss the woman with cancer crying about her daughter and the dead chickens in “Crude.” Heart breaking.
Peter Maass on “Crude World: The Violent Twilight of Oil”
http://www.democracynow.org/
Did you bother to read the article that you linked to? It says:
Calm down. Take a deep breath…
Health Effects and the Nuclear Age
http://www.reachingcriticalwill.org/technical/factsheets/health.html
Actually I think anthropomorphic extinction events have followed people around the globe, but you are right, this one is massive. In two or three hundred years a lot of species are going to be gone. We very well might be one of them.
Thank you for recognizing the solution may be more simple than the government/BP proposed solutions.
Should have said earlier, thanks for the great post. The pictures are very revealing especially since I live south of SF.
Paddle boat skimmers could have easily been built that are designed for the task, along with a floating containment wall surrounding the general oil surfacing area.
Was it all just too much bother to think about spill containment plans ahead of time, or to actually be prepared for it? I think this is gross negligence.
BP is now into the HAIL MARY stage.
it hasn’t a clue as to how to proceed so as to shut the door to this “gushing” reservoir.
you understand what this means, don’t you? if you don’t, it means that neither BP nor Transocean ever conducted a “WHAT IF?” conference prior to initiating the drilling of this very deep submarine well into one of the most important, yet fragile, saltwater bodies of water on this planet.
do you think a small “sombrero” will work any better than the top hat?
what do you think happens to golf balls and other “junk” at depths of 5,000 ft?
crushed is the word, i think.
BP wants the hoi polloi to think that they are making legitimately intelligent efforts to plug this gusher.
but i think that all of this is salad dressing on a bowl of ignorance.
Thanks, that’s an overlooked detail I’d not heard of or considered in full.
If we can agree there’s 6 Billions of oil/gas in the Tiber Field, and it’s under HUGE pressure, and we’ve drilled an outlet for its escape . . . . I don’t see plugging that outlet to be within the means of our technology (not when you consider what BP is doing so far, it’s pretty obvious that NONE of their ideas will work, including drilling a SECONDARY outlet!).
So, what’s a billion. or more gallons of gushered oil and gas gonna do to The Gulf, the Gulf Streams, and the rest of our oceans?
I say to our naysay commenters here, tell me, just indulge me, what would a billion gallons of oil and gas do to our oceans? Two billion? 3 billion? Tell me, where’s the bar you set where you accept a cataclysmic impact on our oceans begins?
Thanks, I’m eager to hear your comments. How much oil/gas will it take to kill our oceans, or just The Gulf? Over what period of time?
Are you kidding, we are as good as it gets. Sad, but way too true.
Considering the pressure at 18K/22K or 309K foot down in rock is HUGE compared to the pressure at 5K at ocean floor, I’d guess that equalizing theory would take about as much as at least HALF of what’s in the Tiber Field (assuming the Field is somewhat fully interconnected pressure wise) to be evacuated before pressure stabilizes?
THAT might be, if you believe Skytruth.com, about 3 Billion Fuckin . . . dang, forgot, is it barrels or gallons they used as a unit of measure? Let’s assume the smaller, gallons. 3 Billion Gallons . . . . if that don’t kill The Gulf and severely damage the world’s oceans I don’t know what will . . . .
Love your background and such that you bring to FDL and share with us your thoughts, thanks for all your posting and comments, Ma’am.
CORRECTION
My figures are in error, by a factor of 12. At 1/16 inch it will cover about 120 acres. At 1/1000, about 12 square miles.
Apologies.
Another way to visualize this. The large gasoline trucks that supply the neighborhood gas station carry around 10,000 gallons, so this leak is about 20 of those. Or, the volums inside a 3000 square foot house, including the attic.
I like to raise issues.
You don’t have to worry about me calming down. I have already accepted the fact that we are living in a mass extinction period. I am full into grieving our mass death, having recently ended a seven year push to save the world.
I had a plan, but I give up.
They want to kill everyone and I can’t do a darn thing to stop it.
Now THAT’S an informed comment full of stuff I’ve not heard discussed!!!!!
I’m an engineer, nor have expertise in this matter, but it sounds like you are well versed!
So I’ll accept at face value your posits and thoughts, and offer a RIGOROUS thank you for doing so!!!!!!!!
Heh, I don’t know that what the commenter said is true. Also. You betcha Maggie!!! ;-)
Yeah, that was a HOSS of a comment, wasn’t it. Bookmarked in this thread immediately.
Remember – this is the amount EACH day, so it’s accumulating at that same rate now for how long? And how many more of these going forward?
I’ve said this about cap and surface extraction methods.,
I’m a LAYMAN, with no expertise in this field or this matter, other than what I’ve been educated to from the INCREDIBLE sources FDL Pups and FDL.
But if BP/TransOcean/Halliburton fucked up 5K of sea piping, 18K or more of pipe drilling, and can’t contain it now?
It was a gas bubble, flowing up with and thru the mud (why wasn’t that mud monitored? Was it monitored? Would mud monitoring have offered a potential different outcome?) that blew to the surface of the rig, fed the air intakes of the diesel generators that caused the explosion on the rig, sinking the rig, and causing the pipe crimping and blowing the well head cement job that wasn’t settled (or wasn’t monitored properly, or just wasn’t enough to contain the pressure).
So, given that, anyone telling me that let’s cap the mothuh, pipe it up and store it in a ship . . . one spark, one burst of pressure that’s not expected . . . . one spark. BOOM!!!!
Color me skeptical at this point.
Yer idle math ramblings are tearing holes in the fabric of nonsensical and unscientific posturings.
Ramble some more, hoss, love your comments so far!
That’s presuming they can drill that deep at all and contain it as they go.
Yer in MY area of beliefs, fully. The relief ‘hole’ is as dangerous if not worse (given what we now know) than the original drilling and well head. Now there’s two or more gushers.
A simple DUH should suffice you’d think . . . . . . ;-)
A history of criminal activity
“Far from being a ‘good corporate citizen,’ BP is a corporation that has made its huge profits through a history of crimes around the globe. Originally named the Anglo-Persian Oil Company, the company was founded in 1908, as the first company plundering the oil reserves of the Middle East. Anglo-Persian was renamed Anglo-Iranian Oil Company in 1935 and was subsequently renamed the British Petroleum Company in 1954.
The British government owned a majority share of the company and what little revenue was handed to the Iranian government was paid back to British and other European creditors. In 1947, for example, AIOC reported after-tax profits of £40 million, while giving Iran a mere £7 million.
The company subjected Iranian workers to deplorable working conditions, paying Iranians considerably less than foreigners. The following passage is how the director of Iran’s Petroleum Institute described those conditions…”
http://www.uruknet.de/?p=m65808&hd=&size=1&l=e
P.S. This article also goes into how BP (which used to be Anglo-Iranian Oil) was buddies with the CIA…and how that relationship ended up delivering the goods for them in Iran circa the 1953 coup. And if that ain’t enough: Wanna guess which company has grabbed most of the goods in Iraq after our little imperialist sanctions-bombing-warring stint?
From this same article:
“BP has just gained virtual control of the Rumaila oil field in Iraq, possibly the second largest oil field in the world.”
As the title of the movie says “There Will Be Blood”. Let it be the blood of the plutocrats and their enablers in the MSM.
The Givens:
The Perhapses (countless, here are three):
The Definites:
OK, that last one just slipped out; Tough day.
more games with numbers, from http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2010/may/09/oil-spill-ecological-review-environment
I take the average slick thickness as being 5 microns. This means one liter of oil will cover 2000 square meters of ocean. Presuming they can’t cap it until the oil reaches equilibrium with the pressure of the ocean, or drains about half the field or 3 billion barrels of oil, this would correlate to covering more than TWO TIMES the entire surface of the earth.
Yup, we could release enough oil in this one event to coat two earth sized planets. The entire ocean covered with more than twice the amount of oil necessary to qualify as an oil slick.
Lovely, eh?
It’s happened before in the Gulf:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ixtoc_I
http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/spill-111690-brings-fears.html
http://invertebrates.si.edu/mms/reports/IXTOC_exec.pdf
And, yes, let’s see an overlay of Washington D. C.
Thanks, Boo! And they should be MADE to do the necessary things at this point NOT *just* the profitable things. But they won’t be made to do anything. It’s unbelievable. And so stupid, stupid, stupid. [I have just about decided to stop working with male engineers at all ~ there's been way too many of them in my life .......... I have had "enough." Come to think of if that may be WHAT is wrong with my life!!!! :-D]
Interesting comment. This is the very bad feeling I am getting about this too. Perhaps they could make the big box work. Even if 50% of the flow escaped and they captured that on the surface, it could add up to a workable scheme. But this ongoing dirty mess is NOT acceptable. Start controlling the damn mess, you BP assholes.
You are hired!
Thanks, Larue. It’s just assemble the facts and apply some logic. If you want to get all fancy and such, hell, do some math. There are some big dangers very apparent.
And then there’s the beaches, too. And the sealife. And the wildlife.
What a mess.
Please excuse the length of this comment- it did not seem possible to shorten it without leaving something out.
Disclaimer- I’m not an engineer, and I don’t work in the energy industry.
Some information about methane:
Some discussion has gone on concerning the methane hydrates that are apparently present in the vicinity of the leaking Gulf of Mexico oil well.
This information is provided not knowing whether it in any way is related to the causes of the accident. The information is provided because methane hydrates apparently may have contributed to the failure of the containment box tried recently.
From MSNBC a typical recent report:
‘Top hat’ is up next in bid to contain Gulf oil
Smaller siphon system in works; BP sprays deep dispersants in meantime
Some information on methane hydrates may be found at this US Department of Energy link: Methane Hydrate -The Gas Resource of the Future
An expansion ratio of 164 to 1 is just the beginning. Some additional information on flammable and explosive gases: LINK
From that link for methane the LEL/LFL is 5% and the UEL/UFL is 15%.
The next thing that might be considered is how easily a combustible ( for methane between 5% and 15% concentration ignites.
That information may be found at this LINK:
Differing flashpoints are reported for methane ranging from -188 degrees C. to -221 degrees C. As the flashpoint classification of “Extreme Hazard” (the highest level of hazard classification) applies for all flashpoints below -18 degrees C. the difference in reported flashpoints matters little.
It appears that in attempting to collect oil from the area surrounding the well, significant amounts of methane hydrates were also collected. Other than the clogging issue, and possibly the hydrates causing a buoyancy issue with the containment box, there is the issue of an explosion hazard.
If there are any significant amounts of methane from any source mixed in with collected oil and water, there may be a risk of fire or explosion.
One cubic foot of methane hydrate contains 164 cubic feet of methane gas at atmospheric pressure and 68 degrees F. (See USDOE link above)
As the minimum concentration for ignition for explosion (LEL/LFL) is 5%, the 164 cubic feet of methane gas can produce 3280 cubic feet of combustible air/ methane mixture.
For safety purposes one source states: LINK
This may not be the standard of safety that applies here.
3280 cubic feet of a 5% methane/air mixture may be made safe (by the above standard) by diluting it to 13120 cubic feet with air.
13120 cubic feet could be held in box 82 feet by sixteen feet by 10 feet.
In summary 1 cubic foot of Methane hydrate (solid) could produce an easily ignitable mixture in a volume of 3280 cubic feet of air, or a volume of 10 feet by 16 feet by 20 feet. Add an additional 9820 cubic feet of air to make the mixture safe by the referenced standard.
Considering the above, there may be some additional difficulties in collecting the leakage from the well and transporting it to the surface for separation and transportation.
Lord.
Great comment, thank you.
In answer to your question about what is DARPA doing, according to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DARPA
they’ve spent an awful lot of time changing their name. [eyeroll]
Remarkable work you’ve done here, qweryous. I hope you’re watching the Senate hearings right now. You might want to look at some of the publications of the Dr. Beck who is testifying at the moment (along with the fellow from MMS).
I’m coming back here after the hearings are over so I can more thoughtfully study the results of your considerable research on this methane problem which seems to be key to the blow-out and has now defied all attempts to contain the disaster.
Very nice work, qweryous.
This may also be of interest …
On CNN last evening, they did a little lecture on the methane dynamics of the blowout and the current efforts to stop the gushing.
Thanks for that link.
Searching for the following:
testimony in the spill hearing, also recent public statements by either the 3 companies or named IYO qualified experts concerning either the methane, the ice, or the buoyancy of the containment structure that was tried and failed.
Requesting that if someone finds a link to a transcript or clip ( providing the time where the applicable discussion occurs if the clip is long would be even better)to any discussion of the previously mentioned,
posting that link here would be appreciated.
Some time this evening a seminal diary will be posted with significant additional information on this general topic.
And as to the the discussion in the transcript- generally yes with some qualification.
THis is not what you seek, but it is very interesting (I think Papantino is a very sharp guy).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQq1RINZUnM&feature=related
Opening statements at the hearing today are here (including Dr. Beck’s). See bottom of article.
Thanks for both.
Brian:
I hope you update the pics with the oil slick.
I think that it was an eye opening presentation about the size of the spill.