(also available at Voices on the Square and at DailyKos.com)
This post is prompted by yesterday’s piece in the Guardian titled “Doha climate talks: what to expect” — today is the beginning of a UN-sponsored conference in Doha, in Qatar, on climate change. I guess this is being celebrated as a breakthrough because it’s a climate change conference in an oil-producing country or something like that.
The Guardian author’s apology for the talks is as follows:
But without them, what mechanism would there be to enjoin all countries, developed and developing, to take the action needed?
This despite the fact that:
the best governments are now hoping for is to draw up an agreement in the next three years that would not come into force until 2020.
But if all the political class is going to do is talk about it, then what’s the point of such a conference? Maybe there ought to be some wholesale changes in the composition and social status of the political class, then. You can do that — you’re activists! At any rate, you can look at the agenda on the UN page — it doesn’t really say much about what-all they’re going to do, but it would seem that repeat mention of the “Kyoto Protocol” would mean that they’re going to try to do something with that piece of legislation. Too bad cap and trade is no longer really of interest here in the US, never mind that it’s ineffective.
I suppose they’re going to talk about giving the “poor nations” money to develop “clean energy” projects. Or maybe it’s just loans or something. Of course the “poor nations” are “poor” because they’re sitting atop resources, both in terms of labor and nature, that multinational corporations exploit. So whatev. But here’s a list of what you shouldn’t expect.
1) A multinational pledge to “keep the grease in the ground.” If we want to mitigate global warming, at some point we’re going to have to abandon coal mines and oil wells. Their commodity value will have to be zero. Conversely, if we pump the oil and mine the coal, we will eventually burn it, with catastrophic results for the climate. “Clean coal” is a joke because carbon sequestration won’t save us. So we can’t pretend to continue to produce carbon while at the same time mitigating global warming.
2) A multinational pledge to transition out of the capitalist system. Since our system of political economy, capitalism, is the main reason we burn 74 million bbls./day (about 3.1 billion gallons) of oil and an equal carbon equivalent of coal, it’s really time we started to think about what will come after capitalism.
Capitalism is the foundation for all this energy consumption — when production is oriented toward markets (or in the Stalinist case, toward “five-year plans” designed to imitate market growth), businesses view the world (both society and nature) as an aggregate of objects for the taking, with the goal in mind of creating “sales.” There is no upper limit to the fetish and the fantasy that is “sales” — unless, of course, the planetary ecosystem shrivels up, thanks to all of this wanton taking, and dies and shuts down the players of the game. A world in which society and nature were respected, then, would not be a capitalist world.
Moreover, capitalism (as a system of political economy) rests upon a world of cheap resources. Cheap resources allow the capitalists to profit; expensive resources may satisfy human needs, but what is at stake with capitalism is not human need but rather capital accumulation. Alternative energy, specifically energies such as wind, solar, and geothermal, will grant planet Earth an indefinite continuance of human civilization. But alternative energies will not provide planet Earth with the sort of cheap energy necessary for an indefinite continuance of the capitalist system. Instead, energy hype these days (as measured by the discussion in The Oil Drum) is about the PR initiative behind US shale oil. Should we wonder why? It’s another hit for the collective global fossil fuel addict: the capitalists, and their lovely system.
This need for a fossil fuel hit also points to what’s wrong with the activists’ solution to abrupt climate change — a carbon tax. Why are the business interests who control the world’s governments going to allow them to tax the cheap energy that keeps them in business?
But don’t expect the political classes to do any of this thinking at Doha.
3) Basic guarantees of fundamental human need. As Duncan Green pointed out this year in The Guardian, “Providing the additional calories needed by the 13% of the world’s population facing hunger would require just 1% of the current global food supply.”
The reasoning is this: once you have everyone’s basic needs taken care of, there really is no longer an excuse. If large portions of the world’s population are no longer obliged to spend their lives eking out a basic subsistence, their energies can be redirected to the problem of how to deal proactively with a future in which some form of catastrophic global warming is inevitable. Since impending climate change doom would be a prospect too important to be left up to a few political representatives in a room, we might also argue, maybe the people as a whole should be involved in the decision-making. The next step, of course, will be in the actual mitigation of global warming, directed by the world’s people as a whole.
**********
At any rate, this is the short list of things you can expect not to see at Doha this week. Want to do something about it? You could start by creating an organization of climate change activists that doesn’t pussyfoot around the issue of fundamental change in the area of political economy (as a prerequisite to real action on climate change) like 350.org does. As long as the politicians are mere handmaidens of the 1% and their lovely capitalist system, things will get worse. Why, the folks are probably having a meeting in Doha this week for the mere purpose of insulating themselves from criticism — so they can say “look! We had a meeting!” when an outraged global public finally realizes that planet Earth is transitioning to something along the lines of planet Venus.
I guess you might as well joint 350.org anyway, though. Maybe it can be changed from within. It is, after all, something to do on the way to the abrupt climate change disaster. There is, however, a very nice blog you should check out on the way to said disaster: Climate & Capitalism. Ian Angus knows the score.



47 Comments

Your guardian link didn’t work for those of us not on Facebook (or at least for moi). This one should.
I’d been saving links for a discussion on Doha, and I hope it’s okay to just drop links and…run. It’s a busy day, sorry. ;o)
Time is running out (Guardian)
Infographic: the politics of climate change (AJE)
OBomba under pressure (Guardian)
And from Patrick Bond, a piece about the need for a counter-summit to the BRICS summit in Durban, much as the alternative summit at Rio G-20, especially given that the US won’t do anything since the BRICS won’t, yada, yada…
Not a great post at the Guardian, but ‘…soul-searching on capitalism’ might interest you a bit.
Anyway, good on you for the post, cassiodorus. I’ll check back to read more later on in the day. ;o)
That the meetings are being held in Qatar deligitimizes man made global warming idea.
Thank you wendydavis!
I’m sure that more than a century of research on the greenhouse effect will remain untarnished.
Aubrey McClendon and the rest of the frackers can’t thank you enough. You should bill them for not mentioning fracking for natural gas. The elites are moving to natural gas as a hedge against the eventual demise of coal and oil.
Sloppy reporting does a disservice to greens.
People I trust are excited about this. World’s Largest Power-to-Gas Plant for Methane Production goes into Operation
It’s not perfect. It’s an intermediary storage step. It’s storage, however that’s critical to making renewables more competitive.
Could you provide me with a link to the literature review on the science? Thanks.
Methane is how many more times powerful than CO2 as a greenhouse gas again? And how much of that stuff is going to leak into the atmosphere as part of the processes of production and consumption?
An Oil sheikdom is a strange place for a Climate conference.
I would also like to read your century of notes on that subject as well, “Greenhouse Gases produced by Humans and their Cows, and how it’s bad for Ice and the future of Capitalism.”
Specifically I would like to see that cross rationalized with science that has grown in the subject of the entire solar system heating up, not just Earth. Maybe the fact that the sun is the most active it has been in the last 8,000 years or so?
Also, can you point to any reports that includes weather modification and its effects on the environment and humans as well? Geo-engineering and such?
Not my century of notes. I’m asking for a link to the literature. It’s the author, cassiodorus, who asserted that a century of research pointed in only one direction.
Qatar has been on the vile side of every issue (al Jaz turned into the Emir’s mouthpiece over terriss invasion of Syria, wh Emir is financing).
I saw the mention of solar system heating up.
Sorry, that was me “echoing” your voice in the direction toward a link of said “research.”
And I also love how we’re so simple in accepting how it’s us that’s causing all the warmth on Earth to “speed” up without looking out toward the heavens and stars as a whole, as an entire energy field.
Random thoughts….but ya, just a mere echo….
Man made global warming has not been my schtick.
No doubt that the climate has warmed during my lifetime (60-something), but I don’t know if it’s a short run cycle, medium run one, long run one, or irreversible unidirectional change.
Not interested enough to figure out which it is unless someone provides the science lit & then I’ll spend some time on it. I have done some giggling to see what I could find about cui bono. Spent only a couple of hours on it, so findings are not definitive.
350.org (McKibben) has an annual budget of $4 million (pdf; form 990 & takes awhile to find what you are looking for). Two of his contributors are Rockefeller Brother foundation & Rockefeller Family foundation (scroll down to Rs). Hmmmm. Oil & banking. I didn’t recognize others.
I’ve got a few other bits & pieces, like French nuke power firm is going into windmills.
Only time Gore rose from the dead is in 2006 to produce film. One could argue that, though Rahm tried his best to lose the election, but failed, Inconvenient Truth was released to draw attention off of dire near term economic circumstances to long run perhaps maybes.
I have no idea, but I’ve not seen the case for man made unidirectional global warming made rigorously.
I’m still waiting for the alternative explanation, that either 1) a 40% increase in global atmospheric carbon dioxide levels was NOT caused by human industry, or 2) that a 40% increase in global atmospheric carbon dioxide (due to human industry) is supposed to have some OTHER effect upon the climate than that predicted by the climate change scientists.
I’m also still waiting for a list of all of those peer-reviewed papers in mainstream scientific journals that show that there really is no link between abrupt climate change as currently occurring, and increased atmospheric carbon dioxide levels since the beginning of the first Industrial Revolution. So far as I’ve observed the debate about abrupt climate change, nobody’s been able to point to even one such piece.
Our understanding of how carbon dioxide molecules create a “greenhouse effect” is more than a century old, having been calculated mathematically by Svante Arrhenius in a quotient that still holds up today. You are all capable of doing the research on this yourselves; you don’t need me holding your hands while you do it.
something like, if the world is going to change its ways, that being in the way of human behavior, it isn’t going to be along the lines and scenario of the old minds and ruling elite who have orchestrated a perfect “shock doctrine” and continue to do so. The way forward is not with old minds and new programs, but with new minds and no programs…..said Daniel Quinn. I resonate more with this avenue, and my heart says something like it as well.
You can look into where exactly global warming came about and where it breached the news scene, which is an interesting story all together, but it’s toeing the line with the “conspiracy theory” avenue, and to this it’s so easy to be shoved aside with all the other “crazies” as another voice is singing out.
Not to go too in depth here, but that’s my “schtick” with science. I’ve always believed that science can be the next religion and in a way it is its own religion. A way of seeing your environment, understanding your environment, interpreting your environment, dictating your environment, and like all those before us, or most of the ones still alive today….”controlling your environment.”
That’s why I always ask where their “graphs” are of influential data that adds in geo-engineering….something that has been underway since at least the early 90s. Weather modification, intensifying storms here….sucking water from another region of Earth etc. Nobody calculates the effects of these phenomenons due to their hush hush nature and the growing public can’t be made aware that the g.o.v. is actually spending money and energy into this kind of control…..
But that’s a whole new rant. It’s a conversation ender, with someone who cries about global warming etc. Asking them, do you know the effects of geo-engineering? What happens when you lace the air with particles such as aluminum, barium and strontium? What about blasting a huge powerful microwave into the ionosphere? and on and on and on.
Anyways, I’ve heard through the grapevine that we shouldn’t worry about anything, and that we are here for a reason, and once we find that reason / door upon our path that we’ll know exactly what to do and even what not to do…..sometimes inaction is also a form of action.
all the love lake dog fires.
I don’t know you or your scientific acumen, wh is why I asked for a link to literature review.
Bef econ, my field was science. Lab science. Simple stuff. Climate is incredibly complicated. I know enough science to avoid accepting hypotheses until a lot of evidence accumulates. A single chart is insufficient.
Saw an internet article a couple of days ago that raised all the kinds of Qs I would ask, but didn’t save the link bc who knows what one finds on the internet.
Kind of Q one might ask: Does the causality go in the opposite direction, i.e. does warming owing to other causes (sunspots or solar activity, for example) cause an increase in HCs in atmosphere. Evidence to support that, i.e., CO2 is released from oceans at higher temps.
Another popular conspiracy is that man made global warming is the austerity program of lefties. Ditto anti-consumerism.
We have observed who benefits from austerity…
So if these understandings are more than a century old…..why didn’t any one “do” anything about it, say in 1912? Oh wait, someone called Tesla did discover as well as invent many different avenues toward energy transfer….but wait, the best part, his funding was pulled and he was cast as a crazy….which seems to be going on these days.
If I created a monetary system where people were rewarded for things that I deemed in my best interest to continue my control over said system….would you call that un-biased science? Would you even call that science? Even if I bought all the Harvard papers and all the bs they pump out?
Me thinks the problem of science is that it’s been corrupted just like the political / judicial / any kind of human made system. When money is involved and decides what button you push, then my friend, it’s not science anymore, it’s propaganda. How’s that Nobel Peace Prize doing? Is it still upholding its foundational values? Constitution?
My point is, when the shadows control monetary and fiscal policy, it’s not hard to extrapolate that the science that pushes the current society is flawed and can be seen as yet another fear tactic to freeze the masses. It’s like saying you still believe the current unemployment numbers, or the “housing recovery” or the S&P is above 1200…..
Keep on “waiting” for those papers, I’m sure they’ll show up in your inbox sooner or later, as long as you open up your arms to other avenues you’ll also raise that little red flag on your mailbox and say, hey, I need some other views.
We should be able to hold hands regardless.
Funny econ example. Survey lost in a pile of papers somewhere took a survey of AEA members. 97% reported they did not adhere to neolibrealism. Author of article reviewing the survey results chastised the 97ers for being so backward.
The 3%ers are in charge of econ policy, or part of the deep govt as some would put it.
There’s an agenda therein.
Here’s the overview:
http://grist.org/series/skeptics/
I did not see a review of the scientific literature in that link. Did I miss it?
I’m not interested in arguments against arguments. I want to evaluate the original literature for myself.
Nobody’s stoppin’ ya. I’m sure a brief run through the scientific journals — Nature, or Science, or PNAS, will tell you all you need to know.
On the plus side, you’re too ignorant on the issues to be a troll.
Natural gas is a naturally occurring hydrocarbon gas mixture consisting primarily of methane, with other hydrocarbons, carbon dioxide, nitrogen and hydrogen sulfide.
When you burn them, the only thing that gets released is CO2.
Our climate deficit is the one that really matters. More than our trade deficit, which is a lot more harmful than our fiscal deficit.
From this year.
Bombshell: Koch-Funded Study Finds ‘Global Warming Is Real’, ‘On The High End’ And ‘Essentially All’ Due To Carbon Pollution
This doesn’t isolate the cause, but imho it reveals the trend and the economic consequences. Doubled Trouble
More Midwestern Extreme Storms
Are green house gasses the only cause? I don’t know. I did take chemistry classes, however, and I had to balance equations. When for centuries you pull GHG’s out of the ground and pour them into the atmosphere, the conclusions on the “green house” effect are reasonable.
As I write this, pretty much all of the lower 48 that’s not on or near either coast is in a hellacious long-term drought. It’s lasted the better part of a decade in Texas, and nearly as long in Kansas and Nebraska; it’s got so bad that when Hurricane Isaac came through earlier this year, the storm was welcomed as a way to save this year’s crops (where there were still crops that could be saved) or recharge the ground moisture and hope for better luck next year.
Because of this decade-long lack of rain, the Mississippi is so low right now that if it drops any further it will be impossible to get barges up or down on it. That will be devastating to farmers and grain traders and all the others who rely on barges as a low-cost way to move thousands of tons of goods.
One of the reasons that China is selling more wind and solar power products domestically than they have in the past is to keep price supports in place for these items; another reason is that they are seeing most of the Himalayan glaciers, the lifeblood for both China and India, shrinking (the sole exception being the Karakoram), and they realize that their addiction to coal, the dirtiest fuel of all, is a contributing factor thereto.
More on the Himalayan glacier situation:
You clearly don’t understand the urgency.
You can’t grow crops without a steady growing seasons, a long interval between the last frost of Spring and the first frost of Fall. Those intervals are diminishing, along with increased frequency of droughts and floods.
We’re passed the point where we can just conserve, or switch to renewable (which we aren’t doing anyway). In all likelihood we’ll have to affirmatively go to carbon negative (carbon sequestration) solutions. Although it’s counter-intuitive, biochar has gotten a lot of press.
The wars of the future will be fought over CLEAN fresh water, electricity/energy and food.
I’m afraid we are about to find ourselves on a very fast escalator ride taking us into a new Climate state, from which there will be no easy nor fast way back out of. When that day arrives our society will be long gone from a very different planet Earth. Sadly, it doesn’t look like were going to do anything serious in the way of stopping this ride. I have some tough days looking at my children in their 20′s knowing what they’re going to have to face.
In real life you don’t know ANYTHING about what I know and about what I don’t know.
Back in the 1980s, James Burke narrated a predictive fictional account of humankind’s response to human-caused global climate change. The plot line was that nothing happened until 2015 when a catastrophic event hit Japan, and the Japanese government led the international community to a very restrictive limitation of carbon emissions. I guess the premise in Burke’s future history was the “not until the shit hits the fan” model.
The strongest effort in the US at the moment is the EPA’s greenhouse gas regulation process, which is putting out for public review industry-by-industry drafts of regulations for reducing greenhouse gases.
IMO, that makes more sense than the pseudo-market legislation that was framed to be easy to pass — carbon tax and cap-and-trade.
What not to expect out of Doha is serious consideration of an international response to the anticipated changes that are now unpreventable. What does seem likely is the usual jockeying for advantage the cost of exports produced in a country, and which might change to the disadvantage of some countries.
I like the fact that you do a lot of diaries. It keeps the site going. If you could marginally improve the quality, that would be even better.
This isn’t personal.
I’m the furthest thing from an expert on these things. I’m always looking to learn. You can look at your diaries as working documents from which you can help others get smarter and from which you can get smarter. That leads to better diaries from you and everyone else. No one is expecting you to be a climate expert. You can ask readers for help, clarifying your understanding, or for links. Maybe they respond, maybe they don’t.
AFAIK, the carbon foot print of fracking and refining natural gas is much larger/higher than creating methane from (hydrogen from electrolysis) from renewable sources. Also, afaik a lot of UNBURNED methane escapes during fracking and as you noted that’s a lot worse than the same amount of carbon. Additionally, fracking also poses serious dangers to aquifers and the water table. Methane from renewable sources does not.
What I’d like to see is a way to take the carbon and other soot harvested from smokestacks and sequester it into things like carbon-fiber products and perhaps electronic gear.
My harmonic resonance with this issue is along the lines of….wait for it……dreaming of a different world and not being “sucked” in to whatever you want to call reality because to me, your idea of what is and what can be is already controlled by your unseen masters who dictate policy and “social concerns.”
Droughts…..you and phoenix woman should look into weather modification and see what happens as well as the RESULT. Droughts etc, so maybe what I was clawing at above was that it’s hard to point the finger at human carbon use as the sole purpose of droughts and “extreme weather.” This line of thought also misses the fact that Earth is a living being and may be regulating as she sees fit, without your input? Oh wait, that’s geo-engineers who have many programs already being implemented throughout the world without your input….due to….due to…..climate change. Which is simply the sun heating up as well as maybe a massive energy output from the center of the universe.
I wonder if your scientists and those that dictate your thoughts, I wonder if they added these variables and possibilities into their calculations?
Urgency. I also don’t believe there will be wars in the future. I know…crazy right?!!?
No one is blaming human carbon use as the “sole,” cause. Even cassiodorus is ahead of you on this. They’re called “green house,” gases for a reason.
Please, who are our “unseen masters?”
Is it Aubrey McClendon at Chesapeake? Obviously not, since he’s 100% invested in natural gas and tracking?
Is it the Koch brothers? Again, obviously not.
Fossil fuels are a commodity and those who control the reserves are among the oligarchs.
So what happens if some evidence shows up on your desk that the entire solar system as a whole is heating up. The sun’s activity is again the highest it’s been in 8,000 years….all the other planets in the solar system are going through dramatic heating up phases in the last 30-40 years….and yet all of this evidence, where is it in the talks about global warming? Should we forget about the sun and the other 99.9999% of space that surrounds us?
I’m all for curbing emissions and protecting the planet, but I think the monetary system that creates such a scenario through materialism should be put on trial before we start all barking about climate change and our role in it.
I shouldn’t call them masters, because that implies that I am giving my power to others, what I should call them are sticks in the road of human evolution, both spiritually and technologically. They give you detours that shuttles you off into a non-harmonic wave with that of Earth. They can be better described as the global central banking cartel, a system designed to confuse with three letter acronyms and modern financial tools, that is never questioned in terms of resources used or influence on our own daily lives.
Where do Koch and McClendon get their loans to start huge ass projects? IMF / World Bank, all of these entities designed by the banking family for the banking family and if you question what is money and who controls it….then you’re asking too big of a question, instead deal with your gas consumption and your taxes.
What if there were no “problems?” I dunno, but I fail to jump when the corporate media pumps out doom and fear so that we can all hurl this mumbo jumbo back and forth at each other without even first questioning why we’re here on Earth in the first place and what our role is to help humanity get forward. Thousands of years of social conditioning isn’t an easy thing to drop at a moments notice.
I do have faith though, in these forums and avenues where the truth and other such remedies toward soulful enlightening is an outcome.
Maybe our oil consumption was meant to happen to quicken our understanding of why we are in fact truly here and what for? Dream for humanity and don’t let the little chickens on tv curb your dreams or what you view as the limitation of humanity.
Love. It actually has scientifically beneficial influences on DNA, and is said to “repair” it. I wonder what fear does?
Of course this diary isn’t about that. This diary is about what would actually be needed to do something about the problem.
Part of the problem is the public framing of the problem by the scientists: they’ve made it a technical problem, and opened the door for the legions of technophiles who come out arguing that “all we need is this special technology and the abrupt climate change problem will be solved.” The techno-conversation then serves as a distraction from the process of our lovely capitalist system grinding ecosystems in planet Earth into little bits.
It’s not personal, but you’re too ignorant on the issues to be a troll.
Well then by all means educate me. Start off with the issue upon which I am most ignorant.
“but I think the monetary system that creates such a scenario through materialism should be put on trial before we start all barking about climate change and our role in it.”
So are you willing to join forces with Ron Paul to fight Wall Street?
“…..I dunno, but I fail to jump when the corporate media pumps out doom and fear…..”
You have to pick and choose. They were right about cigarettes and DDT. The holocaust wasn’t a hoax……
God/higher power/science/……, grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change, the courage to change the things I can, and the wisdom to know the difference…..”
From IPS News ‘Another conference of polluters’:
This isn’t religion. Stop “believing” things, and educate yourself a little bit.
“A new NASA study underscores the fact that greenhouse gases generated by human activity — not changes in solar activity — are the primary force driving global warming.
The study offers an updated calculation of the Earth’s energy imbalance, the difference between the amount of solar energy absorbed by Earth’s surface and the amount returned to space as heat. The researchers’ calculations show that, despite unusually low solar activity between 2005 and 2010, the planet continued to absorb more energy than it returned to space.”
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2012/02/05/419064/nasa-human-activity-not-solar-activity-drives-global-warming-350-ppm/
Education today is built on telling people what to think, not how to think….as for NASA, being a governmental agency, I’m sure they have our best interests in mind in providing cutting edge technology to present to the people, for the people.
I wonder if NASA runs the same type of science NIST did in their 9.11 investigations?
Here’s probably more than you want to read about some of the things I was touching on.
http://www.enterprisemission.com/_articles/05-14-2004/Interplanetary_1.htm
For the last few years I’ve been donating $20/month to FDL. It’s not tax deductible. How much do you donate a month?
Also, if you think America is so screwed up, have you considered filing, but not paying your FEDERAL income taxes?
Really? A democratic society of comments, shooting back and forth, and it comes down to the “monetary” issue once again, but not on a “big picture” scale i.e. the Federal Reserve and how it creates its fake money, but on a personal level…..wow……how much do you pay a month in this fiat currency? This is how you respond to my above comments? Really Boo? Really? Are you so scared by yourself that you must project to all on this forum, for all of those people down below, let them know, let it be known, echoing in the stone halls of Cambridge, how much, exactly, how much I pay FDL a month. I don’t really have much else to say, as I think silence probably would have been the better answer here…..but alas, silent and listen have the same words in them…..
I never said anything about America being screwed up. This isn’t about what flag you fly. My only issue as I noted above was with the way the US gov. science department works, just like their accounting skills etc. It isn’t my beef to try and change all that is unsustainable. My light comes from the change that is happening now at greater speeds, for there will come a time when everything you thought you knew, gets turned on its proverbial head.
Thank you for providing me this electronic space to spew my thoughts, I’m pretty sure your 20 just paid the rent for my comments. And will you be upping your monthly rate to deal with inflation?
Also, is it true the IRS is a 3rd party debt collector administered by the IMF? Just thought I’d ask you since you brought taxes mumbo jumbo into the hot tub.
First off, if you wish to persuade people, stop acting like an asshole.