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Jon Stewart had David Gregory, acolyte of conventional insider wisdom, on his show the other night. Stewart gently prodded Gregory to acknowledge the level of insane, unbridled, irrational rage directed at President Obama by the birthers and others. Gregory tried to change the subject, saying that this is “bigger than Obama”, that the charge that “the president is illegitimate” was also made against Clinton and Bush.
Stewart was too polite to point out Gregory’s intellectual laziness. Gregory desperately wants to fit the right wing fury against Obama into the comfortable template of “balance”. Unfortunately, reality doesn’t always cooperate. At least 17 Republican members of Congress have either supported or enabled the transparently racist “birther” fantasy that Obama, the nation’s first black president, isn’t a real American. Republican members of Congress have stood side by side with unhinged extremists who accuse Obama of being a terrorist and a Nazi. They have spoken at the “How to Take Back America” conference, which featured a workshop incoherently entitled “How to Recognize Living Under Nazis and Communists“.
Gregory correctly remembers that many people were upset about the 2000 election and were outraged by a 5-4 Supreme Court decision that effectively awarded an incredibly close, hotly disputed election to George W. Bush. But he’s missing some important differences: (1) there was some objective basis for people to be upset about the election in 2000–it was incredibly close and only came to an end following a Supreme Court decision in which the justices voted along ideological lines. The birther/Nazi/terrorist accusations made against Obama are “rooted” only in fevered nonsense ; (2) elected Democrats did not question Bush’s legitimacy months after his election, and they certainly did not appear at rallies accusing Bush of instituting a totalitarian state or colluding with terrorists and (3) the level of extremism on the right, including among elected Republicans, is of a different order than anything we saw on the left. One elected Republican member of Congress “joked” about lynching Democrats. Another praised a self-described “right wing terrorist” as a “great American”. Republican leaders are irresponsibly spreading the “death panels” lie, telling paranoid people that they have every right to fear government coming to “pull the plug on grandma.”
Gregory surely feels more comfortable being able to say “on the one hand people hate Obama, but, on the other hand, they also hated Bush,” but he’s failing to observe reality. There are important differences between the criticisms that were made against Bush and those made against Obama–both in terms of the type of criticisms and in terms of who is making and enabling them. To me, the most important difference is that a significant number of elected Republicans are egging on the right-wing crazies. To Gregory, it’s nothing new, just the same old right-left back and forth. That may feel comfortable, but it’s simply not accurate.
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Gregory is right in one sense: The right-wing fury is bigger than Obama and his policies. It’s about a segment of the population that can’t accept the fact that the nation is changing and that the deep-seated system of white privilige is finally being dismantled. This anger has been building for years, but it has now found a focus in the first African-American president.
The left’s anger toward Bush, on the other hand, was completely about him and his miserably failed policies.
that’s a good point, Jim. I think the rightwing segment you describe is a distinct minority, but they have an out-sized fury and rage. They also have excellent megaphones in Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck and powerful friends/enablers in Jim DeMint, Charles Grassley and a number of other elected Republicans. They have managed to amplify their voice–much as the religious right has done for decades.
I think it’s a bigger slice of the country than we might expect. The majority may not be shouting at town halls, but they share much of the sentiment. I have heard people that are otherwise sane and responsible wish for Obama’s assassination when they assumed they were in like-minded company.
that’s pretty disturbing to hear
Gregory and his stupid “two sides to every question” frame are beneath contempt.
Jim, sorry, I live in flyover land, and think it’s a smaller faction than they imagine. The extreme right wing types get a ridiculous amount of lipservice from the politicians who thrive on it, and collect donations from the fringe, but don’t expect the sympathies expressed by those who are using the violent survivalist types actually to support atrocities with anything but talk. Much like the secession threats, it’s not rational and not meant to be taken seriously, in my experience. Faced with actually crossing a line that separates big talk from disassociation from society, not many go over the top.
Gregory isn’t intellectually equipped to understand that balance does not mean equating lies with truth. It’s the lack of seeing that difference that is destroying the credibility of the media.
I agree Gregory is a twit and this bizarre notion that balance is finding someone to represent the flat earth theories has a lot to do with giving the RWNs credibility. However I am not so certain as to the percentage of the population in the southern and middle of the country who live in the TV/movies versions of life and politics. The holding onto the electoral college and states rights does also empower them politically beyond their numbers. Someone the other day asked What has happened to Oklahoma? I have some ideas and may try to do a diary on it. But a lot of what happened to Oklahoma is what happened to the south when racist yellow dog Democrats replaced the minority liberal republicans and claimed the Republican Party. Those who held the designation Dem became the Reagan Democrats in the south. Rham Emanuel strategy has managed to pretty much eliminate the influence of liberal Democrats by empowering the the RDs, now known as Blue Dogs. It’s still mostly about race.
yes, it’s really not a useful way to do journalism.
general mc-last-head-joint-chiefs says the Peace Prize is about convincing our allies to send 40k troops to afghanistan.
brilliant man.
I don’t think you understand what a yellow dog Democrat is. Has nothing to do with racism.
all good responses this morning; gregory is such an intellectual lightweight and gop pimp, the only good ratings come when r. maddow is on. he and c. matthews are just so happy to be included in the “inside-the-beltway” echo chamber.
Rep. Grayson illustrates how the knuckle draggers need to be ignored and marginalized along with those who are hoping to capitalize on the insanity. It reminds me of the author of “Crazy for God” when he stated we just need to go “by” these people. Progressive/Liberals/Free Thinkers/Sane people are in the vast majority …. we all just have to realize and not give so much weight to the crazy or the village.
How many people with guns openly strapped to their legs appeared outside of events where BushCo was speaking?
How many people with “inappropriate” BO-hating t-shirts and bumper stickers have been arrested at events where BO or Biden were speaking?
Yes, the outrage, the balance. I get it.
The genesis of the Obama hate mongering is racism. The small minority who cannot believe that “their” America is being run by a black man will say anything to try to distract reality. They are idiotic, but they are assisted by the media right wing and several members of Congress. When people are allowed to carry guns at Obama speeches is not only evidence of how far these wingnuts will, it is also shows how dangerous these cretans can be if allowed to continue their lying campaigns. .
oh my Chris, most excellent
don’t have much to add, . . . but I did stay at a driftglass Inn Express last night :D
Observation from Georgia. Most people don’t give a shit.
You’ve failed to mention what I consider most important: Elected Democrats didn’t go abroad specifically to undermine US foreign policy under Bush. Ever. Didn’t happen. As for Gregory: there is a reason why people don’t watch him unless Maddow is on. He is the ultimate Villager. Being counted among that group is far more important to him than journalism or integrity and that is just so ostentatiously on display that it taints everything he says, valid or otherwise.
Say, then. Does it have something to do with cowardice?
didn’t see Maddow today, but it’s great she is on the Sunday morning shows…she rejects the phony “balance” approach
Aside from all that, he is the most boring person I have ever seen as a host. He even looks boring – no personality, no nothing.
That’s correct. The term comes from a saying during the days of the “solid south”, that someone would vote for a yellow dog, if it was a Democrat. The saying applies to me.
It’s a saying that I remember hearing as a child
“I would rather vote for a yellow dog than a Republican”. It was very well known and used throughout the south and maybe other places, too.
it sounds like it would, but I think it comes from someone saying “I’d even vote for a yellow dog if it was running as a Democrat for President”. And, of course, that would often be a preferable choice to the Republican nominee
We can graciously agree to disagree and negotiate semantics. Yes there are still in the south some New Deal, Jimmy Carter liberal Democrats who also call themselves Yellow Dogs. But as recently as a year ago in my district Eugene Talmadge was among those celebrated and honored in meeting programs. How racist can it get? My larger point is in the white majority areas of the South, whether Blue Dog, Yellow Dog or Republican racists are not rejected. In my view that’s what all this garbage about states rights and federalism is all about. I don’t like for it to be there but, sadly I find that it is.
Gregory really is lackluster–your description rings true
It may be a minority Chris but maybe not as distinct as you seem to feel. My father was never a racist and he was a member of Gulf Coast Mensa so he wasn’t a stupid man. Yet, toward the end of his life, he began to deny science and embrace the extreme rhetoric of the right wing. He even became a Limbaugh fan after spending decades dismissing him as a “clown”. In the end, I didn’t recognize the man my father became and it led to some extremely awkward moments between us. He died of cancer, twisted and bitter with the hate the right wing fed him. He went from an enlightened, very intelligent person to a screaming winger. If it can happen to him, it’s more widespread than makes me comfortable.
Understanding David Gregory involves knowing that it is about him.
Yes, he is the poster boy for the plastic, talking head.
Fine post, Chris. One other factor you didn’t mention is that the 2000 election was preceded by a multi-year, multi-million-dollar Whitewater investigation, culminating in impeachment of a twice elected president, over a matter having nothing to do with conduct of the office or high crimes and misdemeanors.
Regarding the number of truly dangerous nutcases, Oklahoma City, Martin Luther King, Bobby Kennedy, John Kennedy didn’t involve great numbers of psychopaths and they didn’t even have much vocal encouragement.
I can’t figure out what you are saying. Are you implying that Carter is a racist? Are you from the south? Yellow Dogs are people who would never vote for a Republican – which would most likely include a lot of people here at the Lake.
yeah, I have heard of examples like that–I know someone who I think is smart who recently parroted back the phony “czar” concern that right wingers have been spreading. It made me realize–if this person uncritically accepts the czar garbage, how many other people do the same? He’s not a right winger, and not an extremist. sorry to hear that about your father, and I agree, this embrace of extreme right wing rhetoric more widespread than I am comfortable with
Media hosts and anchors are compromised by ratings. They cannot afford to offend any significant interest groups; therefore, the requirement for “balance” is economically determined. As a result, the “news” and commentary on it is inevitably biased by economics also. Of course, this inherent bias has to be disguised as cleverly as possible to keep up appearances. So why do we care what the media ho’s say anyway?
The exception to this rule is found in the hosts and commentators that serve a biased audience, whether right (Fox) or left (KO, Rachel), and they tend to reflect the expectations of their respective audiences. Here it’s take your pick.
General Bill Bennett declares that President Obama is a dithering Hamlet because he hasn’t listened to Prime Minister McCain on troop escalation in Afghanistan.
I wonder how much dough Bennett has riding on this?
-G
thanks very much CT. you’re absolutely right, the right wing went after Clinton from day one and didn’t let up. I still remember Bob Dole, then minority leader of the Senate, saying right after the 1992 election that he represented the people who didn’t vote for Clinton. While they and national media were focusing the nation’s attention on Monica Lewinsky, there was little time left to talk about a mysterious Saudi who was behind attacks against U.S. embassies and military
McVeigh was apparently influenced by right wing fantasies depicted in a book called the Turner Diaries http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/turner_diaries.asp and I think you can argue the MLK assassination has links to racism, but I agree that not every dangerous person needs rhetoric to spur them on. I do think it’s dangerous for Republicans today to egg on the crazies, given that we have seen rhetoric turned to violence e.g. with the Dr. Tiller murder, murder at Holocaust museum, murders of police officers in Pittsburgh by a man convinced Obama was coming for his guns
Respectfully, the Solid South was racist. Before the Civil Rights laws, the prevailing party was Democratic. They on whole opposed the New Deal policies, calling them socialist and Communist. African Americans and a smattering of white citizens were liberal Republicans. The Nixon/Reagan Southern Strategy exploited southern racism, leading to the preeminence of the Republicans in the south. Indeed moat went to the GOP but racism still lives among the Blue Dogs.
Much the same happened to my mother, when she had a mental breakdown to the extent she had to be ‘put away’ – turned to religion and was pulled into the right wing maelstrom it became, as what was racism became GOP.
As to yellow dog Dems, originally it was a reaction against reconstruction, when Republicans were the occupiers and a yellow dog was associated with shacks and sharecroppers…and a southern descendant would vote for that lowest form of life before voting for an occupier. Actually, there was a racist element then, but in my lifetime I saw the Yellow Dog Democrat become associated with enlightenment and tolerance, instead.
please see; #36
Also thanks for your discussion yesterday at “shibboleth”, at seminal.firedoglake.com. I just got back online and have a wrap there, which would appreciate comment on.
I suggest that it would be a good idea not to say that these days Yellow Dog Democrats are racists. Might cause a problem.
Don’t forget what happened when LBJ pushed the civil Rights act. Many in the south saw this as a slap and jumped.
I didn’t say that a major element of the “solid south” wasn’t racist, I said the term “yellow dog” meant one who was an inveterate Democrat. However, the south did not oppose the New Deal. FDR was uniformly elected in the south four times. Opposition to FDR came more from the midwest and New England. The current term “Blue Dog”, I believe, was developed to distinguish less inveterate Democrats and to improve on the more derogatory “Boll Weevil.” Since many of us who are liberal southerners consider ourselves to be Yellow Dog Democrats (we didn’t switch in the 80′s), using the term in condemnation seems to me to be a mistake.
right–Krauthammer made a stupid Hamlet comparison too…essentially they’re saying that the last thing we want is for the president to take any time to think before he makes a major decision about Afghanistan. We’ve seen that approach before with the proudly unreflective GW Bush. Having a president who doesn’t rush into decisions isn’t necessarily a bad thing, no matter how many times his critics casually compare him with Hamlet. When Hamlet ended up finally taking action, there was quite a body count, and he ended up killing at least one person who had nothing to do with his father’s death. I’m not sure the lesson of Hamlet is that thinking things through is a bad thing.
thanks very much–I appreciate the kind words
Also; the Southern Democrats were split when the Dixiecrats (which formed in 1948 when Truman supported a civil rights plank) split from the party and eventually supported George Wallace in the 60′s – after that they had left the Democrats, and liberals became dominant.
There’s a lot of intellectual laziness going around. Not to mention moral laziness.
ESPECIALLY WHEN IT COMES TO TEH GHEY!!!!!
The silence in here is deafening.
Wow, very revealing. I feel like I know you better.
My experience with my father was the exact opposite. Republican all his life. Nixon voter. Fought with him about racism when I was in college. In his later years, he became much more accepting. Even voted Democratic. It was always there, but his move towards death, mortality, brought him to a diverse acceptance and more openly tolerant state.
Thanks for sharing.
No I am not saying Carter is a racist. Please understand my views are personal and come from living in the deep south for many years. I obviously should have avoided the term Yellow Dog because some still like to use it. I apologize for sloppiness and offense suffered. I was just hoping to remind folks that the Solid South was predicated on preserving Jim Crow and states rights.
My larger points are 1. the Liberals who support Carter and have roots in the New Deal and Civil Rights movement are being shouted out and undermined by DLC and later Rham Emmanuel political strategy; and 2. racism remains a huge factor in the politics of much of the country. That is not to say that I believe the majority of citizens in the red states are racist..
I hear you on equality for LGBT people. Our current legal system, which makes LGBT people second class citizens under the law, is a disgrace, to put it mildly.
Not completely
Fierce Advocate Omits Maine, Washington, Marriage at HRC
Put up a diary right here, great way to keep the discussion going.
The MSM stars frequently mistake a kind of jaded cynicism for insight: it’s the same old-same old, both parties do it, nothing ever changes in Washington, that’s politics for ya, etc. Comfortable and lazy.
Beyond that, their default assumptions about reality are based on how they imagine the most ignorant citizens think: e.g. if a conservative says something stupid, that’s not news because they are not pretending to be smart, but if a Dem says something stupid that’s news because they are pretending to know better than everyone else. If a Republican says something partisan that’s not news, but if a Dem does it’s news because they promise to be bi-partisan. and on and on….
David Gregory is one of the many highly placed emptyheaded gasbags that typifies the Age of Stupid in which we live.
Mine were always republican except when I convinced them to vote for LBJ. in their latter years they became extremely rigid and adopted the party line without question.
Cellar,
I hear that you are frustrated and angry. If you really want to make a point that people will hear, it might be better if didn’t insult people by saying folks here are intellectually lazy.
The silence? There are many posts about the plight of teh gheys here, but you are most welcome to post something at The Seminal, and I’m pretty sure you would get a lot of sympathetic, if not empathetic comments.
BTW, this is not a strictly Gay Site. I see it as a Human Right’s site.
I’m only saying this to you because you have an issue that you are very passionate about and I thought you might benefit from my purview.
Confusing yellow dogs with Strom’s Dixiecrats, methinks.
Media whores such as David Gregory are too often treated as people of importance in journalism. That’s the main problem here.
You may find the discussion yesterday on the subject interesting, at –
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/8865# -
demi has a good point, you may want to write a diary here, too.
I am commenting based on some observation and also a good bit of reading of the history of Eugene Talmadge and the Southern state governments of that time. There was a lot of FDR hating going on in the state parties.
Bingo, Ruth!! It’s just like the “Going Galt” talk. Has anyone you know actually done it? Probably not. Especially not any of those Republicans in D.C.(meaning politicians .. right-wing talkers .. think tankers).
Hey, Rat. Did Bob do the dishes?
Oh, I just hate it when Bob make Rat do the dishes, ’cause I have so much fun sharing with the Rat.
Bob! Leave him aloooone. :)
Nope, he is completely incorrigible on that front. Eats all day and has never washed a dish.
Our media reality is one in which comedians present more intelligent versions of the news than do corporate newscasters.
AND while writing this, I just overheard Rick Steves on his TV travel show presenting a brief political history of Iran with more context and truth than we ever hear on the MSM news!
I used to come home from work, full time, raising three kids and look at the dog and cat just laying there or lying there, and ask them if they found a job today. Or, mowed the lawn or did the laundry. I always got the same reply. Grin, drool, purr. And, still, I fed them, pet them, took them to the vet.
Next time, it’s dog or cat for this soul.
Bob loves me, probably thinks he’s helping by making food disappear and shredding paper or cardboard. He appears to have an oral fixation, thank goodness he never started started smoking cigarettes.
Ha! Razzle Dazzle ‘em.
Of course. But southern states went for Roosevelt each of his four elections. The elections were more about jobs and internationalism vs. isolationism than about race. FDR has been criticised by historians for lack of civil rights action. Farm states tended to oppose the New Deal while enjoying new subsidies, New England states retained an old style “neither a borrower or a lender be” conservatism, and isolationism was fairly strong in both regions.
My dog, Brindle, is my pre-wash cycle. I was washing windows yesterday and left the roll of paper towels out. Guess who decided that was a chew toy? Oh, well, he had fun, and we all laughed. Loves me some cheap entertainment. Like I’ve said before, I’m a cheap date.
PS, ’cause I value your opinion, when I make comments like at #52, is it a total waste of my time?
Nice thing about dogs is they will clean dishes, the floor, anything that has food on it. Rub some sirloin on your windows and he’ll probably do those too. “g”
A Ton and a half more than the Hate Crimes ammendment is involved. I’m talking about the entire spectrum of LGBT life.
Do you really want to eat mice and sniff fire hydrants? :) :)
Not a waste of time. You were on the mark. I was less offended by the accusation of being intellectually lazy (’cause I am sometimes) than the one about being morally lazy (which I am not). Nothing in a comment thread is worth getting worked up about, though. When I don’t like the atmosphere I mosey someplace else.
I don’t know. If it worked for me, maybe? Ha!
You are a very wise boy. Love you.
I’m putting up a big pot of soup. Got a beef soup bone the other day and this am I purchased a ton of fresh veggies.
Guess who gets the bone?
Maybe I’ll put up a loaf of bread too. I just love this cool weather. Makes me want to stay in the kitchen. Not barefoot or pregnant, thank Gawd. There are so many benefits to getting older.
And the lucky people in Washington State may get Steves for a Congressman in 2010 if all goes well. Imagine, another person in Congress that actually knows something about the world.
Enjoy your soup, I’m certain Brindle will like his bone. I like all the seasons but Fall is my favorite.
When I was raising my kids we would no sooner leave the driveway than the question would arise “are we there yet” The answer then was the same as now. I think you would receive nearly universal support that we have a long way to go on LGBT issues. Some of us recognize that there is lots going on that needs to be dealt with. But when we are discussing something else it is rude to insist that everything else be dropped to deal with your sole issue.
I’ll bring you and Bob a couple of bowls later.
Take care today.
Geez. That would make 2 of them- Steves and Franken.
Muchas gracias, you too.
I was surprised that Stewart gave Gregory a pass on the typical Villager false equivalency of the 2000 election. I was more upset, however, that Jon failed to give David Gregory the skewering that he richly deserves for the Rappin’ wi’ Rove episode, a bit of racism-under-a thin-candy-shell that should be dredged up EVERY time David Gregory shows his face outside the Beltway.
I AM NOT A CHILD I AM 62 YEARS OLD. THE LGBT COMMUNITY IS NOT MADE UP OF CHILDREN. STOP TALKING TO US AS IF WE WERE CHILDREN!
Stewart is oddly intimidated by David Gregory. I was looking forward to a wonderful woodshed moment, but it didn’t happen. Perhaps it’s his height?
There is nothing but fluffy between Gregory’s ears.
Rick Steves is excellent–I’ve noticed he includes some interesting substantive information along those lines in his tours of European countries
That’s David “It’s not our role” Gregory.
http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwald/2008/12/29/gregory/
“I think there are a lot of critics who think that . . . . if we did not stand up and say this is bogus, and you’re a liar, and why are you doing this, that we didn’t do our job. I respectfully disagree. It’s not our role.”
yep, that’s a classic Gregory moment
David Gregory frequently misses the point. And when he is not doing that, he is avoiding it. He is a less than satisfactory follow-up act to his predecessor.
In high school we had a substitute teacher, an old-style laser-eyed disciplinarian who looked to be about a hundred years old, who was asked about her politics. “I’m a yellow-dog Democrat, she said. ” I don’t vote for the man, I vote for the party.” Still seems valid.
She had retired from full-time the year before I got there. The first day of school the principal was giving his announcements and at the end he mentioned that she had retired. All the juniors and seniors in the building erupted in cheers.
Hopefully better late than never…in response to Margaret at 8:03AM
Margaret in describing your father’s metamorphosis from Mensa to a Limbaugh Wingnut…I truly feel your pain.
“He died of cancer, twisted and bitter with the hate the right wing fed him. He went from an enlightened, very intelligent person to a screaming winger. If it can happen to him, it’s more widespread than makes me comfortable.”
You describe my biggest frustration/hostility/fear..whatever with Fox/Beck/Hannity et al. My 84 year old mother has morphed from an FDR acolyte to a brainwashed Faux News nut. The fear and anger they have brought to her life make it hard for an enlightened man to not wish a slow horrible death for Roger Ailes. I know I shouldn’t…but damn these people by and large are fing with and frightening millions of seniors who don’t really know any better. The irony to me is that those screaming loudest about patriotism are literally some of the worst traitors this country has ever seen…selling their souls for ratings and gold.
I try to limit my intake of the media with: Fareed Zakari, Christine Armanpour, Rachel and sometimes Keith. Democracy NOW has credibility. I blame the pandora’s box of racist worms opening up via John McCain. He started it with the nomination of Sarah Palin. Put McCain, Leiberman, Palin, Lumbaugh, Savage and a few others in a bag and shake them up. They are not even insidious–they are blatant with their hatred and mean-spirited energy, As for David Gregory, sadly I lost interest when Tim Russet pass away,
Gregory isn’t intellectually equipped to understand that balance does not mean equating lies with truth. It’s the lack of seeing that difference that is destroying the credibility of the media.
Ruth:
Your observation pasted above is one definite possiblility for Gregory’s position. He may be dim and he cannot help being the way he is. If so, I pity him.
Another posibility, and I believe more likely, is that he and others like him do not see it as their responsibility to question what is told to them. Their job is to just pass it on and the listeners can decide for themselves. For a “journalist” that is the height of irresponsibility and incompetence. They should critically question all that is said to them. You and I rarely, if ever,have direct access to the folks he interviews and thus he should be asking questions that we would ask. I for one would never just accept some nonesensical self-serving drivel from anyone, not the pres or anyone else and I doubt many would. It is a professional failing on his part of the highest order and he should be fired or retrained.