Tell your parents not to muddy the waters around us;
We may have to drink it someday …
- old folk tune
First, some history, from a personal perspective.
Sometime in eternity, the Veterans Administration hit an iceberg known as Agent Orange. They seemed to the public a mite slow in recognizing the results of dumping millions of gallons with dioxin on the jungles of Vietnam and the troops living there. The firestorm in the seventies brought the VA up short. America, is this correct? You want we should spend more of your funds quicker?
When the first inkling of an emotional reaction to war came down the pike, they were ready. Conceding the principle that vets might no longer trust the feds, the "storefront" counseling centers were established in the communities, with peer counselors paid by but showing no badges from the VA. A large portion of Veterans Services in every Regional Office was set aside for meeting and greeting questions on PTSD, and Adjudication and the Rating Board sections were staffed and trained likewise. Fee-basis counseling was authorized, so that vets might seek help from private providers. And then came the PTSD Centers, VA facilities in the neighborhoods primarily for the treatment of the hidden ravages of war.
Now, PTSD was called "shell shock" in WWI and "combat fatigue" in WWII. You would see guys in old photos in sanitariums hiding under bunks, or on film moving about with head-bobs like chickens. There were no questions about those diagnoses. But an explosion of the finding of these emotional reactions to war came about when the boomers came home from Vietnam, although earlier wars had more troops under fire for longer.
At this time, the VA was losing its largest client load, WWII vets, at the rate of some 1,500 per diem. The PTSD industry became a mission to replace census rarther than return to Congress any budget savings due to loss of business. Bureaus of any government act like that.
Notes:
(1) There is absolutely no measure of national service which compares with the courage and grit of wearing the colors into combat, and no national responsibility like caring for the one who has bourne the battle. Beside the veteran, the frilly little quasi-patriotic flagwavers are cheerleaders, with about that much effect on the game.
(2) A decent respect for the warrior would show in the cleansing of barnacles from the hull of the Veterans Administration. You do not honor the wounded by simply allowing any claimant into the fold.
(3) The offer of around two thousand dollars a month, tax free, appealed to many who were not by any measure suffering from any known ailment. The symptoms of PTSD were well known, as was the process:
(1) make a claim of sleep disturbance, hyperalertness, flashbacks, poor work history, anti-social and violent behavior (extra points for reactions to Asian personnel encountered at a VAH), substance abuse, and demand a hearing at the VA Regional Office and flip out during it,
(2) join a VA-sponsored conseling group while your claims is processed,
(3) cash in your "counseling" whenever the money rolls in and head out for more pleasant climates.
Jerry Blackburn never came back. Lee did, but he’s lost his teeth to night grinding over the years since. He was aboard a Huey flying relief mission under fire for over a hundred hours. Merle was a jovial sort, but you watch him and he’ll at some point evince a reaction from all the shrapnel he still carries. It started early for Duncan, who had to go outside his tent at Camp Eagle, Ft Sill, OK, to see what the noise was, even though he knew he was spending his last few months on an artillery range, training troops to go where he had been. Bobby will stop while shopping, leave his cart with all the goods there, walk out of the store and never return. Darron I heard about from another who served in his unit. There was a firefight more vicious and surreal than anything in video games, I heard. Darron did not file a claim. He was one of the early storefront peer counselors.
Mitch had an arrangement with his wife. When she told him to go to his room, which was when it was bad, he would. They are in the office now, and he says, "We saw them across the paddy and we fired." Simply, without elaboration.
"Why did you fire at them?" asked his incredulous wife.
Mitch shrugged. "Because they were running."
I call them the 20%ers, which is my rough approximation, not serious, of the number of claims for PTSD which came through an office where I worked for nearly 26 years I rated legitimate. The other 80% included the Basic Training bolos dumped after two weeks in service who came around when the PTSD word was on the street. They had seen a war movie, you see, and then came the flashbacks of a mean DI who yelled at them. And the loader of the cargo planes at Guam, who was distressed because he couldn’t sleep in his hutch near the runway and besides he knew he was aiding and abetting violations of the Geneva Convention. Peacetime vets who produced war stories of North Korean sorties against troop trains in Seol. These claims were denied, as was the one from Daniel, who spent his entire tour in the Long Bihn jail, after his final appeal.
But sailors in calm seas, or "the waters adjacent thereto," they only had to present the well-thumbed list of symptoms. And vets who may have been in country, but made up their war stories. To all of them I say, you are muddying the waters around us.



13 Comments







Provocative write, Clovis.
There is the pressure to not be a sissy and seek out support for victims. PTSD, some of the characteristics I have read about: 1) sudden regression to feeling as if you are a helpless child and back in a highly threatening situation, 2) survival guilt, 3) psychic numbing, … darn, I am forgetting the fourth … is it isometric tension? will come back and add it if I can recall.
The reality is that US forces are more like concentration camp guards than real soldiers. When your objective is genocide and you slaughter people by the million including, yes, thousands of babies, then you’re not a soldier, you’re just a thug of the vilest kind.
Agent orange’s real victims were the utterly defenceless civilian populations exposed to it by how did you put it? Those with, “courage and grit of wearing the colors into combat”.
How about crack whores?
Crack whores do more of a service for the country than the soldiers do and they don’t have to butcher people while doing it. I bet it takes more courage too.
Courage and grit? I was drafted during the Korean business, and I went reluctantly, but without a thought of refusing. It would have taken more courage and grit to refuse, but I didn’t know any better at the time. It took courage and grit for those who refused the draft in the Vietnam business, who knew they would face ostracism and criminal charges. During that “war”, it would have taken more courage and grit for soldiers and airmen to refuse orders to gun down unarmed civilians, or to drop all sorts of deadly devices from the air. And although there are many decent and sincere people in our armed forces today, I don’t applaud them as a group for “courage and grit.”
Let me see, I went to work at Veterans Services in the summer of 1974, just as Vietnam was ending and twenty years after Korea. I saw so few Korean vets in the next 25 + years, and so many from Vietnam. I want someone smarter than me to link up the first teevee generation with the free and open personal expression which the publicity of and filing a claim under benefits such as PTSD meant. If there is indeed a connection.
But, you must admit, two similar casualty lists … although one war lasted way longer than the other, the duration of service was shorter in Vietnam.
Comaints, in general, exploded with the boomers.
And while Magoo made a joke about being tied up during Woodstock, it would have been a great service to the country and the universe had he and all other troops gone there instead.
Indeed. About five million people died in both wars.
clovis: PTSD symptoms — 1) regression to childlike state of primitive fear; 2) psychic numbing; 3) hypervigilance (with isometric tension); 4) survivor guilt
am just watching tv about the tragedy at Ft. Hood.
I notice you don’t mention those whose service-connected disability rating was rescinded after review. That was, and is, the fate of many of the vets with personality disorders who initially were rated as having an SC rating based on their claim of PTSD. Re-examinations weeded out many of the frauds but that is not to say that there aren’t those who have escaped notice throughout the years. No system is perfect and having treated vets in locked inpatient psychiatric units at VA Denver and Bay Pines, FL for 16 years I have to wonder what your beef is. VA has a number of areas which need improvement more important than PTSD claims. I was also involved in the development of the original treatment regimen for PTSD at VA Denver in partnership with the University of Colorado Medical School, Psychiatry Department.
Good to know we have such fine folks working at the old VA, figuring everybody must be a fraud or how did you put it, a barnacle? The kind of guy that gave the VA its sterling reputation of denying claims, no matter how valid. Everyone is a stealing sleazebag looking for a free ride, right? You think it has no effect on a sailor cutting down the kid who hung himself in an escape trunk? How about the main space fire that roasted a few of his shipmates to a crisp? Bagging those guy’s remains off of the melted deck plates shouldn’t/wouldn’t/couldn’t bother anyone. You know where they put a body underway? In the Meat Locker (walk-in freezer).
David, you seem to know a lot about crack whores. Do you speak from direct personal experience or are you talking out of your ass? What makes you feel you have earned the right to judge us? How old are you? Where were you when all this was happening?
It is good to be judged and be found an opportunistic lowlife scum, worse than a crack whore, a thug of the vilest kind. Apparently, I live only to rip off the taxpayers, but then, what would you expect from a baby slaughtering coward, a member of a generation that fraudulently claims mental issues to just get out of participating in society and interacting with nice people like David and Clovis on a daily basis, a person who was less than a real soldier.
I feel obligated to point out the obvious. As a murderous thug capable of the terrible deeds which David attributes to me, I obviously have deeply rooted mental problems, real or sham, and there is no question that individuals such as David would certainly inflame the deranged thuggish killer which may or may not exist within me.
Well said.
This is Manichean Mania, of the sort you might find on Pox Noise. If there be fraud, then that means everybody is a crack whore, and everybody not in my corner is the enemy. This is insanity.
A movie to watch isone of those longcoat westerns set just after the Civil War. This scene is inside a stage coach, and one young guy is very aggressive, most pugnatious. There are a couple ladies and a tired older gent.
They are held up by the Long Riders, who ask the older gent if he by chance served in the later rebellion. Yes, as a matter of fact, with Longstreet’s Division, from First Manassas to Cold Harbor. The riders honor him, pass by to the punatious punk, who is strangely nervous. And where were you during the last war? they ask. He mutters … ” …Cold Harbor …”
The old man is disgusted, utterly. You’re a fraud, he says, and he sets in to assist the Riders in fleeching the now passive punk.
I have always found those who had earned a place in any grouping to resent imposters. I remember Jessie asking me about one of those who actually joined a Vets Group of former combatants. This happens more than you might imagine. One claims to have been there who wasn’t. Jessie wants him out. It’s only natural. For what group is enhanced by pretenders?
A question, clovis.
Are you and timus one and the same? Your comment yesterday combined some of the information from the DKos diary into it.
If so, after 10 years what brings this issue to the fore? A hidden agenda, perhaps?
Here we go with the Crybaby Glen response – everybody who says anything which rattles my holy place setting must have a “hidden agenda.”
My agenda is the truth, as observed over a number of years. If you claim all claimants are righteous and holy, then you are less an advocate than an utter fool.
Yes, I write as Timus on KOS and by different names other places, such as my own in a letter published in the Scientific Review of Alternative Medicine, which ran an inquiry on PTSD by Dr Peter Barglow, MD. I remember also the Director of Mental Health Services for the VAMC in Northern California sitting in my office one day, and asking, “Do you know what totally disabled by mental illness means?”
I did, because our region was full to overflowing with them. The police were called to our office, more than once. And yet when a counsellor in that office known as The PTSD Queen retired, all the guys came around, and they sat waiting in the lobby for the party like a church choir.
You will be happy to know the Queen agrees with you utterly. She sees PTSD everywhere, and she and another anti-war crusader up in Fairfield were responsible for 40% of the PTSD claims to the Oakland VARO in those years, according to the CDVA director at the time. Her position was, war is awful, and just look what it has done to my boys. Her position, in reality, was that of the traffic director I observed down at Market and 2nd in San Francisco once. He was flailing and waving his arms and prancing about like a drum major, and the traffic was moving, and you were a couple of minutes noticing the intersection was controlled by a stop light, and nobody driving by was paying any attention to this particular controller.
Our consellor loved PTSD claims because her part was simple and they always came back in months approved and by golly how the boys loved her. She was taking credit for gravity.
Again, every professional on the scene, the counselors with the service divisions and the VSDs at VARO and all the CVSOs and even the psychs in the various VAMC clinics knew there was a game afoot. None of us doubted the effects of war service, and symptoms obviously resulted from that, but we had lots of experience with the effect of making two tax-free grand a month easily available to guys who had no other resources at that level.