Religion and politics have gone hand in hand in the western world for as long as one can historically count. Indeed the Religious leaders of Israel were also the political leaders of the time, so it’s not surprise that when Rome fell leaving a political vacuum, the early Christian church took up the role.
What I think is too often missed is that the story of Jesus was as much political as it was religious. Maybe even more so. As an atheist this view makes perfect sense to me since the shrouding of political rhetoric in religious terms was quite common at the time. One could more easily speak aloud religiously when to criticize the politics could get you very dead very quickly. In the middle east at that time speaking out against Rome would make you a galley slave if you were lucky. Much worse if you were not.
I had given up on religion by the time I was 18 or so. But when I first heard Murray Head’s Jesus Christ Superstar my reaction was that this is a very different approach. After I bought the album and listened to it and the lyrics, the message there in seemed more a call to appose Rome and the current Jewish leadership of the time than a purely religious one. No wonder the leadership wanted him out of the way.
Murray Head’s interpretation of this was quite evident.
This message was also not lost on the Roman slaves, where they used the teachings as a call to resist Rome. The early black Christian church rallied for the same reasons.
Which brings up the total irony of this. That the story of Jesus was as much about throwing off the chains of Roman repression and the Jewish leaders who supported them, as it was about religion. But since then the Religious followings that came afterwards were some of the most repressive and horrendously tyrannical the western world has ever known. The Christian Church aligning itself time and again with dictators, despots and oppressors of the worst kind.



14 Comments

The conversion of Constantine was the historical turning point for Wesrern civilization.
What I have never understood and still don’t is all of the killing and hate that goes on in the name of religion. Taking Christianity just for random example, before Constantine’s conversion, people were executed for refusing to worship the designated pagan gods- it was a state requirement- notable in history are the martyrs who refused and were tortured and executed. Call it religious intolerance to the extreme. Well, as I see it, things are headed back in that direction, with the hate and intolerance going on today. The irony is that Jesus, who was executed for treason, taught and lived just exactly the opposite. It is offensive to hate on other people in Jesus’ name.
Au contraire CS, the church – which ever one it maybe – has been at the for front of authoritarian rule and intolerance from the get go.
The epitome of hypocrisy. Believe as we say or your dead. Religion and dictatorial rule has been the case historically for thousands of years.
“The irony is that Jesus, who was executed for treason, taught and lived just exactly the opposite. It is offensive to hate on other people in Jesus’ name.”
Nice to see that the present reincarnations of the myths of Horus and Mithra are still alive and well in the 21st century.
Civilizations come and go, but myths are eternal.
Especially when they serve the rich and powerful.
As a practicing, apatheistic, militant cynic, the only thing that keeps me up at night howling at the moon is hypothesizing on what state of affairs existed before cause and effect orchestrated the laws of interaction in the universe.
Any howls you would care to share?
Thanks and recommended.
I’m sorry, cmaukonen, but you are incorrect. The religious leaders of Israel were never also its political leaders. Nor even were the early Christian leaders of the Church its political leaders, not even in the time of Constantine. There may indeed have been times in which the two collaborated, church and state, but mostly, as in the time of Christ, they were either in opposition to one another, as were the Jewish prophets, or occupying significantly separate spheres of influence. When the waters get muddied is when we have problems.
Jesus was not executed for treason. The Jewish religious leaders of the time accused him of blasphemy; that’s far different. He challenged the religious leaders of the community, not the state. Pontius Pilate, representing Roman rule, did not even want to crucify him.
Please, people, get your facts straight.
I figured at least one person would come to the defense of “religion” being a passive accomplice.
Horse Hockey !
I don’t know what you mean by ‘passive accomplice’, cmaukonen. Seems to me I am being active in opposing your version of the dance between the statesman and the religious leader in the context you have put forward. I’d like to give two examples of the healthy tension keeping politics and religion in separate spheres we have recently witnessed.
The first is of course Martin Luther King. I realize his son is now in politics, but his father never was.
The second – and you may quarrel with me that this is a religious force – is Occupy. I think that movement matters to us because our moral and spiritual aspirations have been dumbed down by the muddying of religion into politics and politics into religion. Our youth recognize the falsity and the need, and they bore witness to that by confronting both politics and greed all over the country at great risk to their persons – they lost, but that doesn’t mean they were wrong. We do have a side of us that isn’t political but spiritual. That side is concerned with a justice which isn’t merely what the state says is justice but something higher.
And that’s worth dying for.
“Please, people, get your facts straight.”
“The Jewish religious leaders of the time accused him of blasphemy; that’s far different. He challenged the religious leaders of the community, not the state. Pontius Pilate, representing Roman rule, did not even want to crucify him.”
Since you present yourself as a truth teller, perhaps you need to get your facts straight.
I hesitate to tell you at this late stage of matters, but everything you stated is an anti-Jewish myth, and there is no factual basis whatsoever to your portrayal of either the Jews or Romans of the year 60 C.E., give or take.
Just good old fashioned lies to inspire the ignorant, superstitious, and gullible among us to commit acts of genocide.
Hint: Try reading books other than a ‘Bible’, unless, of course, you have limited your reading agenda to pure fantasy and fiction.
Sorry to be late replying to you, doremus, and it is true that I get my facts from the Bible. It is my understanding that there are few other sources from which to draw with certitude, so I would appreciate it if you can enlighten me. The Old Testament is certainly not anti-Jewish, and there the record is clear – prophets and other religious leaders always operated as I said in opposition to the chosen kings of early Israel, and their writings were the polemics of the day when that kingship failed to live up to the ideals of good governance.
I don’t believe I have ever sought to ‘inspire the ignorant, superstitious, and gullible among us to commit acts of genocide’ – you can check my postings – nor have a huge number of my fellow religious. To lump us in with the pseudo-religious neocons and neoliberals is pretty plain – well, sorry to say this, but it’s stupid.
I read very little fantasy but I do read fiction. I was trained in the liberal arts and taught by very good teachers to think for myself and not to malign others but to listen to what they have to say and present arguments in rebuttal. It’s worth trying.
I strongly recommend your hint. My recent list included Plato’s ‘Meno’, Pasternak’s ‘Dr. Zhivago’, Henry A. Giroux’s latest article on the abuse of the next generation, Solzhenitsyn’s ‘The First Circle’, historians on our Founding Fathers. My favorite part of FDL is the book salons. Reading freed me from my parents’ mindset when I was no more than six years old. I still remember that first solo trip to the library, coming back home clutching a book about dinosaurs (to my mother’s horror.) It only got worse after that. Reading is a passion with me, from Plato to Dostoievski.
I’m afraid you do not have any other records on what Christ’s crucifixion represented than the records of the four evangelists. What I have told you is their account, not mine and not that of any authoritarian body of malignant overseers of my internal cogitations. It’s just me thinking here, me alone. You will have to accept my word on that, but there it is.
Sorry again to be late. Here’s my most recent reading from St. Paul’s second letter to the Corinthians this morning:
“…I think that God has exhibited us apostles as last of all, like men sentenced to death; because we have become a spectacle to the world, to angels and to men….To the present hour we hunger and thirst; we are ill-clad and buffeted and homeless, and we labor, working with our own hands. When reviled, we bless; when persecuted, we endure; when slandered, we try to conciliate; we have become, and are now, as the refuse of the world, the offscourings of all things.”
This is why you won’t find Christ or his followers in the annals of history written by the elite of the day (or of this day). They were poor and humble and they lived and died anonymously except for the writings of their followers. They were like the anonymous of Occupy, scattered and persisting in anonymity to survive, and they practised nonviolence. Their ideals were identical; it’s just for the Christian that Christ embodies the ideals, and for humanity at large it is very difficult to find such an embodiment outside of his example. I said Martin Luther King, and I said Occupy. Gandhi would be another, and the Dalai Lama. And wow, I was watching PBS last night, gotta put in Pete Seeger and Peter, Paul and Mary.
We very much need them all – as they are, not as others would wish them to be or to dumb them down. Don’t you think you just might be being played by the PTB? It is very likely they don’t wish you to think of Christians the way I do, or even to tolerate my form of freethought. Think about it.
Totally agree with you here, we are on the same page, in terms of how things used to be with state-sanctioned religion. Worship the pagan gods of the state or else. The ‘or else’ meant execution.
Constantine’s conversion ended or turned the page on that chapter of history.
I am idealistic, but I really envision a nice world where people are free to believe what they want to or not…and where these personal beliefs are separated from governing bodies. I guess it would be a society where freedom of religion is truly that.
Oops, even though the page on that chapter was turned does not mean that the next page wasn’t equally problematic in terms of restricting religious freedom.
Sorry, I am not an expert in this part of history. I got the information from a course I listened to titled From Jesus to Constantine: A History of Early Christianity.
I am sure this is just one of many viewpoints and historical accounts. I am no expert. I simply wish that people would not hate each other in the name of religion, any religion.
Ok, let’s start with a very basic question: Who first comes to your mind given the following description?
‘Born on December 25th
Born of a virgin
A star announced his birth
On birth adored by 3 kings
Prodigal teacher at 12
Baptized at 30
Performed miracles and healing
Described as the “Lamb of God”, “The Light”
Crucified after being betrayed
Dead for three days
Resurrected’
Chances are you immediately thought of Jesus Christ after the first few descriptive lines.
However, you would only be partly correct.
For the exact, and I don’t mean sort of, but the exact same set of attributes and circumstances were also attributed to:
Horus- Egyptian 3000 B.C.E
Mithra- Persia 1200 B.C.E.
Attis- Greece 1200 B.C.E.
Krishna- India 900 B.C.E.
Dionysus- Greece 500 B.C.E.
And this is what Thomas Paine (1737-1809) had to say about the similarities between Horus and Jesus:
“The Christian religion is a parody on the worship of the sun, in which they put a man called Christ in the place of the sun, and pay him the adoration originally payed to the sun.”
How you incorporate the above factual history or challenge the givens in your present belief system, whatever they might be, is now completely in your hands.
But, the above information is factual and should be rather disconcerting to some.
Present books I am wading through simultaneously:
‘The Collected What if? Eminent Historians Imagine What Might Have Been’ Edited by Robert Cowley
‘A History of Warfare’ John Keegan
‘A History of the Ancient World’ Chester G. Starr
‘Copernicus’ Secret’ Jack Repcheck
‘1421 The year China Discovered American’ Second time. Gavin Menzies
‘American Theocracy’ Kevin Phillips
Have a splendid day.