Tweet
Free Gaza issued this press statement today…
Today, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu hailed the peaceful outcome to the operation when they seized our ship in international waters in direct violation of maritime law. Through his speech writer, he said:
"We saw today the difference between a ship of peace activists, with whom we don’t agree but respect their right to a different opinion from ours, and between a ship of hate organised by violent Turkish terror extremists,"
So we’d like to remind Mr. Netanyahu that the only hate evidenced on board all six boats on Monday morning came from the Israeli attackers. Israeli soldiers violently boarded the entire flotilla, beating, shooting and hooding passengers as though they were in Abu Ghraib
"People had been shot in the arms, legs, in the head – everywhere. We had so many injured. It was a bloodbath," said Laura Stuart on board the Marmara, a British housewife and rescue worker.
Therefore, we are putting Mr. Netanyahu on notice that we are returning in the next couple of months with another flotilla, that his actions and the actions of his soldiers have energized thousands of people who have stepped forward with offers to help and participate on the next voyage. We’d also like to remind Mr. Netanyahu that seizing our ship, the Rachel Corrie, is yet another violent act from a long series of violent acts against civilians that Israel has committed this week.(emphasis added)
To add insult to injury for the flotilla participants, the IDF continued their abusive behavior…
Gaza activist ‘beaten in Israeli jail’
…An Irish-American activist(and former US Marine) has been hospitalised after allegedly suffering beatings at the hands of Israeli security forces.In an email Kenneth O’Keefe’s partner writes: "Having already been complaining of dizziness following his first beating by Israeli police, Ken was beaten again last night in his cell.
"He has been taken to hospital where he is receiving treatment for his injuries. I am unsure as to whether he was taken against his will."
That’s not the only example…
Flotilla Activists Interviewed: "Beaten on the ship and at the airport"
PM: What happened to you during the detention?
Luppichini: I was beaten because I asked to call my family and my embassy.
Luppichini, who is still recovering from a rib contusion and several and haematomas, was also detained in an isolation cell for 12 hours because he reacted to defend a Palestinian activist, Osama Qashoo, while he was being beaten in prison. During the isolation, by knocking on the door of his cell, Luppichini succeeded in drawing the attention of Greek activists whilst they were being visited by their consul: only after that did he manage to get in contact with the Italian Consulate.
Here’s several accounts of the brutality…
Gaza activist ‘shot every minute’
Israeli commandos shot passengers at the rate of one a minute during the bloody raid on an aid flotilla bound for Gaza, a Briton on board the main vessel said.
Ismail Patel, chairman of Leicester-based Palestinian rights group Friends of Al Aqsa, said one of the nine people killed during the assault was shot just two feet in front of him.
He claimed the commandos had a "shoot to kill" policy during the initial phase of the attack on the Mavi Marmara, with live rounds being fired on the vessel from a helicopter hovering above.
Mr Patel, who returned to the UK after attending the funerals of his shipmates in Turkey, told a press conference in Westminster the gunfire on the vessel last around an hour. Despite Israeli claims of armed resistance, Mr Patel said those on board acted in self-defence using whatever was at hand.
Mr Patel said: "We now can calculate that they shot one person every minute. One person was shot every minute. There were nine fatalities, over 48 people with gunshot wounds, six are unaccounted for."
From the Guardian…
Gaza flotilla attack: Autopsies reveal intensity of Israeli military force
• Victims found with up to six gunshot wounds
• Israel ‘about to lose a friend’ warns Turkey’s US envoyThe autopsy results released today by the Turkish authorities after the Israeli attack on the Gaza flotilla reveal in chilling detail the intensity of the military force unleashed on the multinational convoy.
Each of the nine victims on the Mavi Marmara in international waters off the coast of Israel in the early hours of Monday morning was shot at least once and some five or six times with 9mm rounds.
The results also reveal how close the fighting was. Dr Haluk Ince, chair of Turkey’s council of forensic medicine (ATK), said: "Approximately 20cm away was the closest. In only one case was there only one entrance wound. The other eight have multiple entrance wounds. [The man killed by a single shot] was shot just in the middle of the forehead with a distant shot."
Israeli MP tells of her terror on aid ship
Haneen Zoubi said Israeli naval vessels had surrounded the flotilla’s flagship, the Mavi Marmara, and fired on it a few minutes before commandos abseiled from a helicopter directly above them.
Terrified passengers had been forced off the deck when water was sprayed at them. She said she was not aware of any provocation or resistance by the passengers, who were all unarmed.
She added that within minutes of the raid beginning, three bodies had been brought to the main room on the upper deck in which she and most other passengers were confined. Two had gunshot wounds to the head, in what she suggested had been executions.
Two other passengers slowly bled to death in the room after Israeli soldiers ignored messages in Hebrew she had held up at the window calling for medical help to save them. She said she saw seven other passengers seriously wounded.
“Israel had days to plan this military operation,” she told a press conference in Nazareth. “They wanted many deaths to terrorise us and to send a message that no future aid convoys should try to break the siege of Gaza.”
Yet another glaring contradiction in Israeli account of flotilla massacre.
…Days before the illegal attack on the Freedom Flotilla in international waters, the Israeli daily Maariv published a detailed account of the IDF’s plans for dealing with this nonviolent political action. The plan included the use of force if the boats would not voluntarily comply.
A senior IDF officer explained:
“We have very good reason to suspect an act of terrorism from the boats. It is impossible to know at this stage whether terrorists boarded the ship or whether there is intent to use live ammunition against our forces. Therefore, we will act with full seriousness and caution.”
This is sensationalism, pure and simple. The ships were inspected by Turkish customs prior to departure and every passenger was searched with x-ray machines to ensure they did not bring weapons with them, a fact confirmed by the Israeli army after they seized and searched the cargo, despite their hysterical insistence after the fact that kitchen knives, screwdrivers, and bullet proof vests constitute weapons.
81 Comments
Thanks Tuttle. Rec’d.
State must be scrambling like mad.
Tragically, their paranoia seems to know no bounds…
*gah*
I am unsure whether to be partially comforted by the possibility that their paranoia is real, or disquieted that it is largely for domestic political consumption/beast-feeding.
We have our crazies, they have their crazies.
Their’s are in charge…! 8-(
Dayam… Only to emphasis the point…
Activists: Israeli boat raiders had ‘assassination list’
recommended ct — thanks for the update
I needed to pick up the slack from Siun and ET…! They earned some much needed rest…! ;-)
it’s rather a good idea not to believe the Israeli claims, but while this is interesting stuff, Tuttle, it’s mostly sound and fury.
that thing you’re quoting in #5 is most, most interesting for what it says about the less than one-sided nature of the battle if three commandoes where beaten, dragged off, disarmed and searched.
the thing about an assassination list is very intriguing. interesting to see a copy of that, particularly want to see that it’s titled “Assassination LIst”. as bad as the Israelis fucked this thing up, that would still take it to another level of surreal.
Funny thing tho… The Israelis confiscated everything… Did I mention everything…? Anyways, the Mossad most definitely had dossiers on each and every ‘activist’ aboard, each and every ship, dontcha think…? ;-)
I think that if they didn’t have dossiers, they would be even dumber than they repeatedly show themselves to be, Tut, but the stuff you’ve put up here is more emotionally justifiable than it is reasonable.
The idiot Israelis thought that they were going to board and slap down any opposition and steer that ship into port. That it ended up being a bloody fight was something that they should have expected, but inexplicably didn’t.
Assassination List ….. is about as dogass dumb as the shit that Netanyahu is spewing.
This was one ugly, ugly thing and is being exploited with ugly, ugly lies.
Ok, Mac, you do accept the premise that the Mossad had dossiers on all, yet, then argue they wouldn’t pass that knowledge on to Flotilla 13(the assaulting force)…? Huh…?
To refresh your memory…
Good update. I am disgusted by the whole Israeli-Palestinian mess. Israel’s leaders, who are far rightwingnuts, are paranoid and out for revenge. They are in a karmic circle – violence begets violence, distrust gets distrust, revenge gets revenge.
Before embarking on a journey of revenge, dig two graves. Confucius
An eye for an eye makes the whole world blind. Gandhi
And if you wonder about the depth read a few of their leaders quotes, dating back to the 60s. The current Israelis appear to be following their early leaders’ ideas.
I wonder though, if there is a difference in the thinking between Middle East Jews, who have lived with Arabs and Palestinians for over a thousand years, and European and American Jews, who have only just moved in?
The more you hate, the more you are hated.
Most excellent point, Pel…! *g*
As you will no doubt have noticed by now, as stoopid as the first assault was, the second was less so in some ways. They did not lower commandos down ropes from helicopters to the deck of the ship, though the commandos were armed and masked same as last time. This second Israeli take over of the ship happened only 20 miles out, but still in international waters. The Gaza aid passengers on the MV Rachel Corrie had already announced they would not fight back, and they didn’t, but Israeli news still boasts that this take over was better.
The Gazan Palestinians are nearly broken by the siege that Israel has carried on. They agreed to give Palestinians some land on which to live, but have done everything in their power to deny the Palestinians Life. I am disgusted with them. And I am sorry to feel that way -
I argue that they wouldn’t pass the list onto the people boarding the boat so that those people could use to locate, select and assassinate, Tuttle.
But if you think that people on the boats who captured Israelis found such lists and that those people where able to read that the lists said “find the following people and assassinate them” please say so, because unless you do, I refuse to believe that you could think it to be the case.
If anyone thinks that the list wouldn’t be “locate, separate, hold for interrogation” I gotta read it plainly.
lotta people in Israel used to talk about the difference in the 70s and 80s, with the European and American wing being the liberal/peaceniks.
some other folks talk about the latecomers from Russia being heavily into the dark side.
it’s not just the siege that’s dragging them down, it’s also their own lousy leadership that’s helped in digging those graves.
Bullshit…! Having worked extensively with 10th SFG, I know they’d be carrying photos and/or hit lists on their missions…! D’uh…!
I had not read/heard that specifically, but I have heard that the European Jews that moved in are more right-wing and militant and are carrying their grudges to extraordinary lengths.
I admit that I don’t understand how the Palestinians thought that voting the power to Hamas was going to lead to anything but violence. However, just take a look at the U.S. and one could say the same thing here. The Palestinians may have thought that Hamas was strong enough to fight back against Israel. They needed some strength in their leadership, given that Israel has always acted to eradicate the Palestinians (see my previous link at #15). I see many of the same kinds of attitudes in this country, and, until recently, we voted in the same kinds of messes that come with war-is-good-keep-the-country-safe leaders. We need to vote in more level-headed-less-militaristic leaders to really make any meaningful headway in our effort to change the path of the country.
Because Israel/US oppose their democratically-elected leadership…? How about leveling the playing field and allow 100% of just the UN aid to get through and not the current 20% level…! Hmmm…?
tuttle, i don’t care to make historical comparisons. I think Israel is wrong on a tremendous number of things, but this IS Hamas. They are not exactly about civic responsibility.
The Israelis for sure don’t want any success in Gaza. And a good portion of the World have not supported the U.N. in changing the way Israel is acting – which has led to the disaster that is Palestine Gaza.
There are similarities to Afghanistan too – the people will vote for leaders who bring about better conditions – like schools, hospitals, infrastructure, economy – and accept the violent tendencies as a byproduct, and probably hope that all-out war is not inevitable. But as I said, those same leaders who use war to be safe only bring violence and war down upon them all – violence being waged by other countries and peoples who are war-mongers and intolerant of other Peoples and other Ways of Being.
“I admit that I don’t understand how the Palestinians thought that voting the power to Hamas was going to lead to anything but violence. However, just take a look at the U.S. and one could say the same thing here. The Palestinians may have thought that Hamas was strong enough to fight back against Israel.”—for elucidation sake, Hamas won the general Palestinian election because of the corruption in the PA/PLO and their lack of progress in bettering Palestinian lives as well as rapprochement with Israel.
“We have very good reason to suspect an act of terrorism from the boats. It is impossible to know at this stage whether terrorists boarded the ship or whether there is intent to use live ammunition against our forces. Therefore, we will act with full seriousness and caution.”; damn if this doesn’t remind me of swat teams doing a drug bust.
Anyone got an answer as towards what kind of weapon one can make out of concrete?
horseshit yourself, Tut. They elected a group of overtly racist terrorist killers, they get to carry the responsibility for that. There’s not a sane reason on this Earth that the US and Israel or any one else shouldn’t oppose that elected bunch.
I hadn’t realized that winning an election washed away your crimes.
But it’s not just Hamas that I was talking about. The people representing the Palestinians have been making all the wrong calls for 75 years and more.
Now, rant aside … it’s long past time to cobble something together that’ll lighten the siege on the people. The shit about restricting all the food aid that the US and Britain gives to the UN for Gaza has to stop.
If the goddamned schools in Gaza stop teaching some of the miserable things that they teach, it would certainly be great, but even still school supplies have to be released.
Be nice to start releasing small lots of construction supplies, and if they get used to build buildings, keep releasing more.
And it’s long past due that someone repairs and upgrades the water works in Gaza that were lousy when the British were there and are quite the worse for wear now.
Shrub was justified in invading Iraq…? To put a little perspective on it…! 8-(
I addressed that point in my following comment because I missed saying it in the one you saw and couldn’t edit it.
The choice the Palestinians had was *total corruption and intransigence with regard to Israel or *general help for all Palestinians in Gaza and possible violence/war with Israel because of the deep hatred between Hamas and Israel. I wonder if the Palestinians thought that Hamas would be stronger against Israel.
The photos I see of the Palestinians in Gaza break my heart. The conditions are beyond deplorable. By stopping almost all aid and goods into Gaza, on the grounds that weapons could be made, Israel has brought disaster on the Palestinians and everlasting shame on Israel, in my opinion.
Now whom would be responsible for that…? Oh yeah, that group of overtly racist terrorist killers, the IDF…! 8-(
No, and the US is responsible for having elected him and allowinf ourselves to be badly led.
As are the Palestinians. They’ve chosen war too many times and for too long to be able to say that everything that’s gone wrong is all the other guy’s fault.
In 2006 they had two lousy slates of candidates to choose from, to be sure.
But it being more than four years since that last election, I kinda wonder how come they haven’t yet gotten to choose another democratically elected government.
~~~ Let’s cool the attacking style, please. Perhaps it’s time for a walk around the block.~~~
This shame is not only for Israel to bear, in my opinion. (I missed the edit window again). It can be borne by countries and people unwilling to *make* the changes in the conditions happen. I think of the U.S. for sure.
No Tuttle, the Israelis are only partially responsible for the siege. That democratically-elected Hamas government doesn’t recognize that it’s not at war with Israel and refuses to honor the agreements with Israel that the Palestinian Authority negotiated and ratified.
Those in Power do not give it up easily, in Gaza, or anywhere else. But in places with *flexible* voting rules, it takes a real push by the People to get a new vote. And the Palestinians of Gaza are busy trying to survive.
thanks, just knowing that you’re there, shall bring tranquility and that extra measure of comity we all so desire.
CNN continues to say that 9 Turks were killed; on TV and their internet pages. Americans who use CNN as their ‘news’ source would have no idea that the Israelis murdered an American.
*************
“The incident contrasted with drama in international waters on Monday, when nine Turkish citizens were killed after violence erupted on one of six ships in a flotilla carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza.”
http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/06/05/gaza.flotilla/index.html?npt=NP1
Israel brags about how America defends its criminal behavior.
*************
“The U.N. issued a presidential statement condemning the events leading up to the incident, which some have interpreted as a criticism of Israel.
* It would have been preferable if the U.N. and Obama administration had blocked any action implying criticism of Israel for defending itself. Nonetheless, intervention by the United States prevented passage of a Security Council resolution condemning Israel.
* The administration continues to express its confidence in Israel’s ability to conduct its own investigation of the incident despite calls for an international inquiry.
* During the Security Council deliberations, Alejandro Wolff, deputy U.S. representative to the U.N., said the “direct delivery by sea [of humanitarian supplies] is neither appropriate nor responsible” and criticized Hamas’ “continued arms smuggling and commitment to terrorism.”
* The United States must now maintain its longstanding position not to allow the Security Council and other U.N. organs such as the U.N. Human Rights Council to exploit unfortunate incidents by passing biased, anti-Israel resolutions that obscure the truth and accomplish nothing.”
http://www.aipac.org/The_Issues/index_36194.asp
and of course there is also that little thing about the reconciliation agreement between Hamas and the PA that the Egyptians and Gulf States got them to hammer out about a year ago that Hamas has since repeatedly put off signing. Can’t have any new elections as long Hamas refuses to participate or allow anyone else in Gaza to participate in.
In a nutshell. Sadly, true.
Whoa…! Dood, you’re sorely misinformed…!
If you read any contemporary history, Israel and Shrub, never negotiated and ratified in good faith and kept moving the goal posts on Arafat and his successors…! Spare me the rhetoric…!
Again, Israel and Shrub had no desire for Palestinians to succeed in establishing a country. To a large extent, a fair number of *leaders in the U.S. still don’t want any success in Gaza. I always hope for a shift here in this country that will allow Gaza to become more stable and more productive so that the Palestinians can Live, not at the expense of Israel. But Israel does not have the *right to prosper at the expense of others in the region, in my opinion, which is how I view the situation now.
A simple example and the the primary basis for Fatah and/or Hamas negotiations is the freeze of settlements in Palestinian territory, be it West Bank or Gaza…! It hasn’t even slowed down…! 8-(
That would be a waste of time for several reasons, and collecting pistols for evidence rather than for use doesn’t fit well with “trying to defend their lives by all available means.”
Pistols? What happened to the “machine guns” and “fully automatic weapons” we keep hearing about?
Several things I’ve read about the forensic exams done by Turkey are troubling (why is it supposed to take a month for the full report, btw?), but I never heard this. Is there any corroboration?
Check out some of the first hand testimony…!
I’ve read lots of first hand testimony. Now I’d like to hear from “CSI, Turkey” what weapons fired the 9mm bullets, and what bullet and weapons damage the ship has.
Robert Mackay…
From the Guardian…
Per the Wikipedia:
And five of the nine were shot in the back or back of the head.
Turkey has the bodies and said 9mm, which could be either pistol or submachine gun. Which they haven’t said yet. Where’s the ship?
You might be right. Time will tell.
Edited to add: How about the wounded? What’s the forensic evidence there?
*heh* Sorry that I edited out the CSI Turkey part…
Aloha, ww…! ;-)
Ain’t that some shirt…! My, my, how we weave a wicked web…!
Hey CT. I think that I remember from reading Tom Clancy’s Rainbow Six that it’s supposed to be one to the chest and three to the head. WTF? Maybe the Isreali commandos wear both suspenders and a belt.
I’ve got one even better:
Don’t you love the way clever people come up with the tactic of setting up “countervailing forces”: the lowland scots in Northern Ireland, the Jews in Palestine, Hamas in the occupied territories, etc. And it always blows up in their face.
I was trained to make the headshot first, assess, and ensure expiration with a double tap and/or chest shot…! They certainly followed a similar playbook…! 8-(
I read Rainbow Six in 1998, so I guess I got that backward. I’ve not had practice. Sigh!
Witness what the Brits did with the ‘Durand line’, and, how they sliced and diced the Kurds…! 8-(
Twenty to thirty years ago, I noticed that almost every hot spot in the world had been deliberately set up by the Brits to be a hot spot so that they could leverage their forces. (It’s impressive that such a small country could rule so much of the world for that long.)
* Cyprus (Turks vs Greeks)
* South Africa (Boers vs Bantus)
* Ireland (imported lowland Scots vs Irish, so I’m told)
* Israel/Palestine
* India v. Pakistan
BTW: check this from Max Blumental: http://maxblumenthal.com/2010/06/idf-admits-it-doctored-flotilla-audio-clip-washington-posts-kessler-must-retract/
I saw that earlier today, to which the IDF responded to, and, in an ironic twist it’s been headlining at Memeorandum…!
Hey CT. Thanks. That’s a hoot.
I’ve got to shutdown not. Great talking to you again.
Sounds like what happened to Tillman.
Great job keeping this front and center, thanks.
Hey mac. If you were a prisoner in Gaza would you vote for the Quislings or the Resistance?
IIRC, when Hamas won the election polls at the time indicated that it was a result of domestic issues. In a nutshell the Palestinian voters were fed up with the corruption of Fatah and were hoping Hamas would deliver on promises for improving the domestic quality of life.
This is entirely similar to what polls here show, that voters tend to vote based on domestic issues, the economy more so than other issues.
As a result I find arguments that Palestinian voters cast their ballots strictly on the basis of screwing Israel unpersuasive.
I also wonder how many alternatives Palestinians have? Do they have two useless choices as we do? I’ve been voting to end the wars for years and yet no matter who wins our government keeps escalating our involvement, spending money we don’t have, and expanding our empire abroad. I guess then, it is my fault that trigger happy morons in some nice cozy little cubicles out west somewhere keep blowing up children remotely. I guess that puts me in the “overtly racist terrorist killers” support camp. Nonetheless, I would feel more responsible for that fact if anything that I ever did made one iota of difference.
Thanks phred. You have articulated why blaming voters for shit is so dumb. In the case of Americans, voting (in national elections at least) has become a meaningless ritual. What can we say of voters in Gaza? Gaza is a fucking prison for Christ’s sake. I hear people saying that these powerless starving retched people brought their trouble on themselves by electing Hamas. Utter Bull Shit.
Video of a bloody O’Keefe.
Can’t tell when this was taken. Between beatings? After them?
Has he been released from hospital of did he refuse treatment?
Anyone know?
LINK
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEGX7qEyHmc
We will be back! Very cool news :)
The people in Gaza have been screwed by both parties, workingclass, as well as the Israelis, but in 2006 they chose Hamas, the party not of Resistance, but which is pledged to a war of Total Victory and to the removal of every Jew.
They didn’t have a good choice, but Hamas is what they chose. They voted for war, even if understandably, and war is what they have.
The Israelis voted for Netanyahu (or opted for his government of scum) so that is what they have. You or anybody else want to excuse them from responsibility for what they’re doing on the ground that Netanyahu has to contend with Hamas?
No Tut, I’m not that severely misinformed. There has been no good faith since 2001 and neither Bush nor the Israeli government have shown any, but Hamas transcends that. It refuses to honor the agreements from the 1990s and says that Israel doesn’t have right to exist and peace with Israel can never be permanent.
It may someday change that , but until then, they are what they say they are.
If American history tells us anything, it’s understanding the CIA. They’re nothing more than the button men for Wall St. They have nothing to do with national security. A massive criminal outlaw organization.
Democratically elected leaders that want to work in the best interests of their own people are demonized and destroyed by US politicians and other Western governments, US propaganda, covert ops, and CIA anti labor agitators.
1953 Iran, 1972 Chile, 1976 Austrailia, and the long list of the horrors throughout Central America. We’re just doing what we do.
We’ve killed millions of people in the process before they aren’t about to give one whit the millions more we’re about to kill now.
When Gaza voted for Hamas they already had war. Peace through victory is probably impossible but peace through groveling is equally impossible while being humiliating and repugnant.
I believe it is true that permanent peace with Israel is impossible. So Hamas is merely speaking the truth.
I defend the Israelis who did not vote for Netanyahu. Consider the people who did not vote for Bush. They were the majority! Will you hold them responsible for the crimes of that Administration?
Voting can be a pretty big deal in the abstract spaces of the mind. In the real world it often don’t mean shit.
I served in the U.S. Army under Johnson and Nixon. It ain’t just the CIA that works for the global monopolists. What I call the First Republic died at Appomattox. In this layman’s opinion we have been in pursuit of empire ever since. I hope to live to see the death of American empire if not the birth of the Second Republic.
Israel rejects UN call for international inquiry into flotilla raids. Ambassador to US dismisses Ban Ki-moon’s suggestion but says Israel is willing to work with Washington.
Maybe the first problem is that Israel thinks they can *reject* an international investigation by the U.N. and the rejection will hold. This should be allowed, and if they then refuse to cooperate, some strong penalties should be enforced.
Maybe the second problem is Israel shopping for *friendly investigator… a lot like shopping for a judge… and it is not at all surprising that Israel thinks the U.S. would be the best investigator of their actions, since AIPAC says they run the U.S. government – they think the fix is in… time will tell. Personally, I think President Obama should refuse to be the sole investigator.
Israel and AIPAC are continuing to co-opt the U.S. and endangering us even more than they already have, and everyday I get further away from supporting those who support and enable Israel and its U.S. government wing AIPAC.
Enough.
I meant to say *This should NOT be allowed*
I agree. And, I too hope I live to see tha demise of this cesspool of morally bankrupt merchants of death.
There’s a good deal of truth in that. It’s very easy to view the situation as being one long war since 1948.
Hamas’ position is that the war must not ever end until the last inch of land is ruled by followers of the Prophet.
I that’s the truth that you think that they’re speaking, fine, but the implications of the view are pretty damn grim.
If the Israelis accept that, then they’re not fighting hard enough.
Thanks for this diary, CT. I took yesterday off, after the illegal seizure of the MV Rachel Corrie, to do roof repairs and tidy up my gardens. Now I’m trying to hook up two completely different ocean adventurers who have been more successful than the flotillas (so far): Roz Savage and erin & hig.
Hamas’ position is that the war must not ever end until the last inch of land is ruled by followers of the Prophet.
That’s their opening position. I wonder how Hamas would respond if they got a credible counter offer.
If the people of Gaza were offered a just and lasting peace, guaranteed by a coalition with the power to enforce the Israeli side of the agreement, perhaps Hamas would lose the next election.
There will be a resolution when all the Gazans are dead or when outside forces prevent that outcome.
Their charter also says that it’s a crime against God to directly negotiate and it’s justifiable to punish anybody who does.
That said, I agree with you…… the fuckheads are all sides here are so dug in that they aren’t going to be able to reach a peace agreement, let alone making the agreement work, on their own.
It’s going to take half the world to settle this into a something decent and near-peaceful instead of what it is now.
strafing from the air, just like they did against the US Navy personnel on the USS Liberty.
what an insane, deranged, murderous rogue state.
Israel is acting like a psychotic serial killer under the protection of a ruling mob boss, and just pushing at the boundaries of what it can get away with, and finding people will make excuses for every depravity.
… likely untruth.
if he’s saying that it was bullets before boots on the deck.
Sound grenades and tear.
Bullets shot from the air into the midst of a melee
If so, there will be forensic evidence.