Time magazine’s Rania Abouzeid, from within Syria’s Idlib Province, recently painted a bleak picture…
Going Rogue: Bandits and Criminal Gangs Threaten Syria’s Rebellion
“They (the FSA) get more support than we do, but our support is delivered to us, theirs doesn’t make it to them. That’s the truth,” he says. “Their support stays in Turkey, it doesn’t make it to the revolutionaries here. If our supporters send us 100 lira, we get 100 lira. This is the reality.” He wouldn’t say who his supporters were, if they were state sponsors or individuals. “Whether it is official or unofficial doesn’t matter to me,” he said. “We have enough.”
It’s a statement many of the FSA units operating around these parts can only aspire to utter. Most blame the so-called commanders in exile for their situation, for not providing them with the weapons, ammunition and funds they need, leaving them to scrounge for supplies, and some units to resort to criminal means to secure them. {…}
…Some FSA units are snatching loyalist soldiers from military buses and demanding a ransom from their families for their return. The amount varies, and can be anywhere between 100,000 Syrian pounds ($1,550) to 200,000 SYP ($3,100) for a regular soldier, although the family of a lieutenant colonel reportedly recently paid one million SYP for his release…
“Some people have reasons for not defecting, they should not be punished for protecting their families,” one man said, referring to the fact that retribution by loyalist troops is sometimes exacted on a defector’s family or property. “If they are going to their hometown on leave, they can defect,” countered an FSA member, “and we need the money.” The consensus was that if a loyalist was picked up on leave, on his way home it was wrong, because he may be using his leave to defect. If he was heading back to his barracks, however, it was a different story, the men said. “It means he’s coming back to kill us,” said Abu Amjad, whose son Amjad heads a rebel FSA unit, “so he has to be stopped.”
The ever intrepid, Pepe Escobar, raises the very same concerns that I have of the Kurdish Question…
Welcome to the Kurdish Spring
…Follow the oil
This Swedish report [1](PDF!) contains arguably the best breakdown of the hyper-fragmented Syrian opposition. The “rebels” are dominated by the exile-heavy Syrian National Council (SNC) and its Hydra-style militias, the over 100 gangs that compose the Not Exactly Free Syrian Army (FSA).But there are many other parties as well, including socialists; Marxists; secular nationalists; Islamists; the Kurdish National Council (KNC) – an 11-party coalition very close to the Iraqi Kurdistan government; and the PYD. {…}
Show me your terrorist ID
Iraqi Kurdistan President Massoud Barzani told al-Jazeera [2] that yes – they are training Syrian Kurds who defected from the Syrian Army to defend their de facto enclave. It was Barzani who supervised the key deal sealed in Irbil on July 11 that led to Assad forces retreating from Syrian Kurdistan.What is being described as “liberated cities” [3] is now being “jointly ruled” by the PYD and the KNC. They have formed what is known as a Supreme Kurdish Body.
One can never underestimate the Kurdish capacity to shoot themselves in the foot (and elsewhere). Yet one can also imagine all this cross-country Kurdish frenzy terrifying quite a few souls in Istanbul and Ankara. This [4] columnist for the daily newspaper Hurriyet got it right; “Arabs are fighting, Kurds are winning.” The Kurdish Spring is at hand. And it is already hitting Turkey’s borders. {…}
…Especially when you start itching to kill “terrorists” living in your neighbor’s territory – even though your Western allies may view them as “freedom fighters”. Meanwhile you actively support Salafi-jihadis – “insurgents” formerly known as terrorists – back and forth across your borders.
An increasingly erratic Erdogan has invoked a “natural right” [5] to fight “terrorists”. But first they must produce an ID; if they are Sunni Arab, they get away with it. If they are Kurdish, they eat lead…
Now, I’d like to delve into some of the inner-most thoughts of a true Neocon under Shrub…
Rumsfeld’s Intel Chief: Iraq War ‘Greatest Decision of the Century’
There’s a broad consensus in the U.S. defense establishment today that the choice to invade Iraq was ill-considered and that the initial plan to stabilize the country was even worse. But for Donald Rumsfeld’s one-time intelligence chief, the Iraq war wasn’t just the right call at the time. It was “one of the great strategic decisions of the first half of the 21st century, if it proves not to be the greatest.”
Stephen Cambone, who served as the Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence from 2003 until 2007, surprised the audience at the Aspen Security Forum this weekend when he hailed the Iraq war as an alloyed triumph that paved the way for the rebellions now sweeping the Middle East. “It will be one of the greatest strategic victories of the United States because…. of the aftershocks that you see flowing through the region, whether it be in Libya, or in Egypt, or now in Syria,” he said…
“There was a preponderance of evidence that led one to believe that it was reasonable to suppose that there was in fact weapons of mass destruction in that country,” he told the Forum (where, full disclosure, I served as a panel moderator). “The conclusion was mistaken. To draw the conclusion might not have been a mistake… You only know what you know at the time and you have to fill in the rest. So was it reasonable to draw that judgement at the time? I think the answer — based on what people, the judgement they did draw — yeah it probably was. In retrospect, was it accurate? No.’”
Cambone also offered a prediction: that the wave of unrest unleashed by the Iraq war would soon hit American allies in Saudi Arabia and Jordan. This was an extremely positive thing, Cambone added: “After Syria comes Lebanon and after Lebanon come Jordan, and after those come Saudi Arabia; this place is in motion in a way that it hasn’t been for a century — and we have an opportunity to shape that.”
Well, f*ck me and the entire ME, Cambone…!
Here’s a great Intel update on Syria… The Syrian Intelligence War: A Tale of Two Security Headquarters… And, here’s more sober analysis… Shias and Sunnis battle it out for Mideast control… Btw, Adana is ground zero of F/U(c)K/US-GCC…
Exclusive: Secret Turkish nerve center leads aid to Syria rebels
…Turkey has set up a secret base with allies Saudi Arabia and Qatar to direct vital military and communications aid to Syria’s rebels from a city near the border, Gulf sources have told Reuters.
News of the clandestine Middle East-run “nerve centre” working to topple Syrian President Bashar al-Assad underlines the extent to which Western powers – who played a key role in unseating Muammar Gaddafi in Libya – have avoided military involvement so far in Syria.
“It’s the Turks who are militarily controlling it. Turkey is the main co-ordinator/facilitator. Think of a triangle, with Turkey at the top and Saudi Arabia and Qatar at the bottom,” said a Doha-based source.
“The Americans are very hands-off on this. U.S. intel(ligence) are working through middlemen. Middlemen are controlling access to weapons and routes.”
The centre in Adana, a city in southern Turkey about 100 km (60 miles) from the Syrian border, was set up after Saudi Deputy Foreign Minister Prince Abdulaziz bin Abdullah al-Saud visited Turkey and requested it, a source in the Gulf said. The Turks liked the idea of having the base in Adana so that they could supervise its operations, he added…
Now, Angry Arab, in an excellent Al Akhbar Op-Ed, completely eviscerated our Western Lame Stream Media reporting on Syria…
Syria: Shameful Performance of Western Media
The performance of the Western media (American, British, French and others) regarding the Syrian conflict has been quite shameful. One does not expect much from American media. Ill-informed foreign editors and correspondents and political cowardice turn American media into tools of US foreign policy.
This is especially true when it comes to coverage of the Middle East, where extra political courage and uncharacteristic level of knowledge and expertise are rather rare, even though they are essential to challenging US foreign policy. But when it comes to Syria, British media – including the liberal Guardian which has often been brave in challenging Western foreign policies and wars – have been indistinguishable from American media…
He goes on to list 22 specific reasons, and, it’s quite the litany…!
In winding down, Philip Giraldi penned another must-read…
The Mouse That Roared
Iran is again front-page news, on this occasion for threatening the United States Navy. A lengthy featured article in the Washington Post describes how Iran has obtained new sophisticated anti-ship missiles and has added fast attack boats and submarines. It has also adopted new tactics involving swarming attacks that would put US vessels in a 360-degree battle environment, testing the ability of the conventional warships to maintain effective defense in all directions simultaneously.
None of this is really new. Wargames in 2002 and Pentagon studies in 2009 and again earlier this year confirmed that the US Navy would have considerable difficulty in dealing with the Iranian tactics. I reported the same in April of this year in my Deep Background column in the print edition of The American Conservative. Not surprisingly, the Post and I are viewing the same development in slightly different ways. For me, Iran’s capabilities are just one more reason why a war with all its unintended and unanticipated consequences would have the potential to turn catastrophic with one or more US Navy ships going to the bottom and oil going past $200 a barrel. {…}
…Actually, it is naïve to believe that Iran is some kind of Islamic superpower able to project itself worldwide. If Iran’s capabilities were as described by Warrick and Pletka it would be a good reason to be hesitant about going to war. Warrick clearly wants to promote and not spoil the more favorable narrative that Tehran threatens all of us. In reality, Iran is far behind Israeli and US military capabilities in every significant area and its sponsorship of terrorism is far from proven. Washington’s right to have a massive military and naval presence in the Middle East is unquestioned by the Post as is Israel’s right to attack Iran preemptively. But defensive measures by Iran in the face of five years of increasingly specific threats from Washington and Tel Aviv are somehow sinister.
I’d only add that Congress and the Oily Bomber, have just upped the ante on Iran… Obama’s New Sanctions Target Banks that Help Iran
President Barack Obama announces new U.S. sanctions against foreign banks that help Iran sell its oil.
*gah*



114 Comments

Quite an array of interesting quotes, CTuttle. It’ll take quite a while to digest all of it. Two immediate reactions: Cambone can apply lipstick to a pig like no other, and from where did Iran get all those fancy war things?
Many thanks for the heads up about your post tonight. Verrrry interesting.
I think I’ll go pull my ancient Mouse that Roared video and watch it, in an effort to divert my thoughts from all the children being terrorized tonight in the mid-East.
Gah, indeed.
Ugh. Well, this is anticlimactic but should be reviewed. From Arabology, a radio program “showcasing (alternative) music from the Arab world” on KZSU @ Stanford: an interview with an exchange student returning Syria, recorded 4/26/12.
Not very precise, but likely not propaganda either. If word got around that those demonstrations were mandatory, was that for foreign consumption?
Despite the confessions of rejection of Assad, and accounting for Harmon’s being a student there for only half a year, this does not sound like a revolutionary situation, does it?
But, you can rest assured though that… Panetta in Israel but not to discuss Iran ‘attack plan’… ;-)
It really isn’t, Ludwig, I’ve been reading all the press and in filtering through all the obvious biases, there’s no real groundswell for ousting Assad…! Ironically, I’d almost liken it to the tepidness of OWS here…! What totally bites is the fact that the Saudis/Qataris are actually arming their TeaHadists with RPGs and SAMs…! 8-(
About those new sanctions…
China hits back at new US sanctions over Iran…
Beijing reacted furiously Wednesday to new US sanctions imposed on a Chinese bank over transactions with Iran, urging Washington to revoke them and saying it would lodge an official protest.
China’s foreign ministry urged the United States to lift the sanctions on the Bank of Kunlun and stop “damaging China’s interests and Sino-US relations”. {…}
In a brief statement, China’s foreign ministry expressed “strong dissatisfaction and firm opposition” to the US move and said it would officially protest the decision.
“China has regular relations with Iran in the energy and trade fields, which have no connection with Iran’s nuclear plans,” the statement said.
Btw, I did try to cite every one of Donkeytale’s fave Lefties and Paleo-Conservatives…! I think I only omitted Press tv and Tarpley…! ;-)
So, without further ado… UN reduced to tool for attacks on Syria: Webster Tarpley…
“Donkeytale”, chicken-hawk info-warrior, propagandizing for select People’s Revolutions across Israel’s neighborhood!
Poor soldier, I don’t think he’s won his vacation to Qatar, yet. He’d just idolizes Eric Prince and would love to see Eric’s digs there.
Here’s a presstv panel of four on Syria. I like the part about O on charm offensive with Erdogan.
From this link, in ref to your comment yesterday about Bandar’s earlier disappearance.
From same link as above, an intellectual victory lap for me. I just read for the fifth time about the 1953 CIA overthrow of Mossadeg, once in The Prize, twice in Overthrow and Killing Hope. Yesterday I made exactly this point.
You meant to say a few ersatz lefties and paleo conservatives, don’t you, King Tuttle? Anyway, its good to see you and “Ludwig” always reacting to me. I’m under your skin and inside your brains.
Good, something needs to fulfill you guys…man cannot live on self-delusion alone…he needs other deluders to support him….
You never disappoint in your thoroughgoing dependency on clowns like Pepe “Infowars” Escobar.
http://planet.infowars.com/video/pepe-escobar-lavrov-in-geneve-was-talking-for-all-the-sco-herman-morris
And to the guy adding Webster Tarpley into the counter-revolutionary mix, what more needs to be said, except to ask: what’s your username at InfoWars?
Are you guys simple shills for Alex Jones? That would at least be slightly less buffoonic than your current pose.
For those wishing to read some counter-factuals to the paranoid conservative fantasists on display in this thread:
http://www.marxist.com/in-defence-of-the-syrian-revolution-the-marxist-perspective.htm
http://www.marxist.com/in-defence-of-the-syrian-revolution-the-marxist-perspective-2.htm
Recommended!
And from this you would think O’Bummer would be supporting Assad! Maybe he’s a crypto-Trotskyist.
Donkeytale, tsk, tsk, tsk
How can you be an imperialist and a Trotskyist?
Tarpley knows all!
RIOTOUS!
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/108876/Webster_Tarpley_The_Syrian_WMD_Lies_InfoWars/
I’ve found Russ Baker pretty trustworthy, and non-hyperboic on Libya and especially the Goldman Sachs connection as per Matt Taibbi.
And I certainly no longer trust NATO, AFRICOM, or the ‘human rights’ organizations that on one hand, decry abuses about US ‘enemies’ on one hand, but offer pleas ‘in the name of women’, etc. to extend our presence in Afghanistan on the other hand.
I saw an article at counterpunch.org that accurately described the term “humanitarian intervention” as the “lubricant for war”.
My vocabulary for that has been: progressives want to bomb them for humanitarian reasons too.
Pepe Escobar, Obamabot!
From the infowars video link above in comment #11:
“If we have Mitt Romney in November we are all doomed. There’s going to be a war with Iranin 2013. If we have Obama II, there is a possibility that we get some kind of agreement.”
Pepe on board with LOTE!!
Big time LOTE..
RIOTOUS!
*wow* Donkeytale, once again you fail to grasp what I’ve said…! First, I don’t follow Alex Jones or infowars, I follow the real facts on the ground…! Are you capable of setting aside your personal biases and actually read what is said from a variety of sources…? Are you aware that I abhor all the violence and needless bloodshed in Syria, and elsewhere for that matter, that nobody’s hands are clean, and, that is exactly what I strive to point out…! 8-(
I’m glad that the Syrian WMDs angle seems to have been set aside for the moment…!
The Neolibs are just as bloodthirsty as the Neocons…! 8-(
Here’s another article… Inside Syria: Aleppo’s Christians arm against Islamists
As foreign and local radicals rise amid the chaos of Syria’s civil war, Christians are taking arms from the Assad regime.
Another sober analysis… The fog of war in Syria…
“Real facts on the ground” = “Webster Tarpley” “Pepe Escobar” and “As’ad Abukhalil”?
Nonsense. At best, they are straining interpreters singing to a targeted audience of info consumers. Tarpley and Escobar are purely Conspiracy Theory infotainers who regularly shop their CT schtick on infowars, which my links verify (IE, real facts on the ground).
OK, so, you don’t follow Alex Jones, but you follow his contributors. What’s the substantive difference?
AbuKhalil hasn’t been anywhere near the “factual ground” of Syria at all that I have seen. He’s been a US academic for the last 30 years. He cherry picks his presentation from unknown and anonymous persons. All unverified, mostly unsourced rumours possibly fictionalised. Who can tell from him what are “real facts on the ground”?
And then, he offers media criticism. The easiest target around. Practice what you preach, Perfesser.
I appreciate your wishing us all to ride the “peace” train….but is peace really all that matters in life? If that’s the case, lets all just submit now to whatever authority wants to do with us and have peace…
Problem is, however, Assad seemed to have precluded even peaceful submission after he began warring on peaceful demonstrators and shelling his own neighbourhoods….who really is responsible for the lack of peace in Syria?
It seems you wish to confront only certain of the “real facts on the ground”, and often your facts on closer inspection arent all that factual….I’m offering other views.
Together, perhaps, we are painting a more complete, if more complex and painful, picture of what is really going on in the world.
The destruction of the old postwar political power structures, including that of our very own USA.
Sober, Ctut?
Clearly propaganda. A former representative of the UN recommending to go with might and not with right … once again we must succumb to the inevitable.
I always regarded the Neocons as the military wing while the Neolibs covered were the economic wing of Imperialism. I’m unfamiliar with donkeytale, is it a megaphone?
Assad is the only protection they have from the Sunni thug forces backed by the US/NATO/Saudi/Israel regime change/death machine.
I’d be afraid to address “donkeytale” directly too, if all I had to offer a discussion was:
Even Pepe Escobar isn’t offering such scattered blanket thinking foolishness masquerading as “real facts on the ground.”
Assad is protecting his own interests first, second and third. If “they” are among his interest group then “they” were once well protected by the might of the repressive, but not any longer, as the state falls apart from within, which is the necessary ingredient for any successful revolution.
If I were “them” I’d be screaming about the Sunni thug forces backed by the “US/NATO/Saudi/Israel regime change death machine”, too.
And praying that the Assad death machine that put me in this life/death predicament would somehow save my [formerly] privileged bourgeois ass, too.
I guess you are one of “them?”
He usually confines his obtuse sarcasm and insult to his occasional diary visits. He’s been branching out when his name is used. Probably a mercenary Pentagonian or Hasbarian. Bashes us “paleo-conservatives” with editorials from the International Marxist Tendency advocating regime overthrow – clever wanker.
After reading your comments, I determined that addressing someone with your lack of objectivity and intelligence to be an exercise in futility. Be assured that this is the only time I will do so.
Heres a quote from his most precious source, In Defence of Marxism, Eyewitness account from a left activist recently in Syria:
Yet our dishonest schmuck is always bashing us for anti-imperialism. You’ve made a wise choice, except that it might be a good idea to discredit him every once in a while to reduce his effectiveness (not that he is making headway – he’s already bitter and probably sufficiently self-defeating).
Col. Lang penned a great post today… When hope was a policy…
It might be nice if you could enter what you think the facts are, with links. Your comments seem to be mostly criticisms of what others have written.
S’ok.
His description of the neocons is naive. It could very well be said that their ideologues are more like two sides of the same coin. They both promote a devastating replacement for ancient “surface illusions”.
After this effective admission that “everything in American foreign policy is secretly about” economics, he pans without argument the idea that the economics are neo-colonialist looting.
Not convincing.
… their ideologies …
This one is a pretty good summary:
http://my.firedoglake.com/donkeytale/2012/07/28/on-the-paleo-conservative-reaction-to-the-syrian-rebellion-by-supposed-leftists/
I would urge you to read the linked article inside, also (h/t “Ludwig”):
http://www.isj.org.uk/index.php4?id=824&issue=135
The two links in comment # 11 to marxists.com are very good, too.
Yes, the interview with Pepe Escobar at #11 is good, too.
The one with Webster Hubley in #14 is pure garbage, however.
Mind you, I have no problem with escobar or angry arab, except that they should be read with grains of salt and as only part of a well-balanced diet rather than about 2/3 as appears frequently to be the case.
This by Robert Fisk is very excellent:
http://www.independent.co.uk/opinion/commentators/fisk/robert-fisk-if-alawites-are-turning-against-assad-then-his-fate-is-sealed-7965154.html
And this by Richard Seymour:
http://www.leninology.com/2012/07/the-syrian-revolt-enters-new-phase.html
Correction: Webster Tarpley at 14.
This should work out well.
Been trying to get in shape by swimming, so somewhat tired. Will come back tomorrow to respond to some comments I see were added.
This snippet from “on the ground” in Syria, out from behind harper’s paywall, courtesy of unrepentant marxist:
http://louisproyect.wordpress.com/2012/08/01/welcome-to-free-syria/
“Buffoonic”?!
Question: Why do you take Alex Jones seriously?
WD, in light of your comment, you may like these:
“African Feminism” http://www.amazon.com/African-Feminism-Politics-Survival-Sub-Saharan/dp/081221580X/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343874517&sr=1-1&keywords=african+feminism
and
“African Gender Studies” http://www.amazon.com/African-Gender-Studies-A-Reader/dp/1403962839/ref=pd_sim_b_1
The Empire has given the phrase a bad name.
Goddam, CT, you are doing a bang up job on this topic!
DT, I think you are my man. And a link @ 36 to Fisk, one of the few journalist what I respect? Indeed.
Here is what I propose: You and I go to Syria and asses the facts on the ground with our own pairs of eyes. How else can we get a handle on this righteously? I can be in Beirut in 4 weeks (my job won’t permit an earlier departure and it appears that one can’t go straight to Damascus from the US). What do you say?
That would of course be “assess.” :) Whether or nor we are asses is yet to be determined.
The mass amount of disinformation is astounding. It seems like when Obama gets busted they beat the news cycle by releasing damaging info first.
If it was a secret, it sure wouldn’t be printed on msnbc. Their has been support anyway but it’s been filtered through a few agencies to cover the tracks.
Mehdi al-Harati is from Irland, has a Libyan father and and Irish mom. He’s a sunni. He’s been in Libya, on the Gaza Flotilla Mavi Marmara and is now in Syria. He’s in pictures all over if you search his name.
Mehdi Harati, “I received € 200,000 from U.S. secret services”
I have a few suspicions, Irish travellers and Israeli soldiers can get the best of this guy? I wonder if he had anything to with the sabotage of some other ships on the flotilla.
I take the perversion of political language and ideas seriously. The conservative memes, conspiracy theories, rightwing political causes and candidates that Alex Jones supports are becoming adopted on a growing scale by ostensibly leftist bloggers such as Ctuttle and “fair” “left”, both of whom I consider in fact to be paleo-conservative isolationists, like Jones, reacting to the neo-conservative war mongers since GW Bush admin who merely self-identify as letfists or progressive.
Whether they are intentional agents or useful idiots is beside the point. But the point is, I am interested in countering their propaganda with other perspectives that are actually leftist in nature.
At the risk of sounding the Godwin’s alert, no one took Hitler (or his media factotoum Goebbels) seriously in the beginning either. Mussolini was a self-described socialist. Both found early bases of popular support among disgruntled leftists.
I take all propaganda seriously, not for its actual content as much as for its ability to gain hold and sway in popular consciousness. I’m fascinated in the ways in which false flags are planted and spread across the internet. There was a clearly staged internet propaganda campaign by Ghaddafi during the Libya crisis and of course Assad has done so even more nakedly.
I find it fascinating that these planted memes have been adopted and spread across the lefty blogosphere, in support of authoritarian, right-wing regimes that could be considered fascistic.
46 was in reply to Otto Grendel at 40.
Here’s a good one, rather than Bandar bin Bush being assassinated by Iran, which was apparently disinfo being pushed by the Syrian Assad State TV
Syrian rebels say they carried out Damascus attack on July 18, then the US/Israel/KSA reported that some Iranian Republican Guard was killed in the attack. There has been no proof.
The next day It’s reported that Omar Suleiman, the Egyptian head spy/torturer/Israeli favorite Egyptian is dead. He was supposed to be working with the Syrians to secure the Chemicals for Israel’s sake. (all that matters)
CNN:
Dated July 24- from al-monitor
There are a lot of rumors in Egypt that Suleiman the torturer was killed in Syria, not an IRG.
Your attribution of paleoconservative ideology being adopted by the left is wrong.
Real progressives were always anti war, and the anarchist/left has always been anti war.
http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/minute/merchants_of_death.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_M._La_Follette,_Sr.
heh.
Of course, as the rebellion has seized control of a large part of rural Syria, along the borders, more journalists and observers are able to slip into the country and provide reports that render the Syrian government narrative insupportable.
A bigger more complicated picture can be derived if people focus more on the first hand reporting than the CT narratives spun by infotainers like Tarpley and Escobar and the rumours spread by Hezbulloh sympathizers like AbuKhalil. Each has their place in the meta media narrative (well, except that Tarpley is a bad joke) but each is not on the scene, each has his own preset agenda and theirs is far from having a monopoly on the “real facts”on the ground.
Yes, this is true, but you are accepting the idea that Syrian Rebellion is an imperialist’s war. I say this is the false idea that Assad and his sympathasizers have laboured to inculcate into the public consciousness, successfully so, in uhhm, certain quarters, but its been a narrative increasingly countered by mountains of evidence showing that in fact a protest movement started peacefully 1 1/2 years ago turned violent only when the authoritarian state trained its relatively massive firepower on unarmed protestors.
Its easy for us in our comfy armchairs to commit ourselves to non-violence when government forces are not pulverising our neighborhoods with tanks, helicopters and now airplanes and seeking to detain, torture and murder us.
I don’t think we have any right to judge people fighting back against an historically repressive govt in much more difficult circumstances than we have ever faced. In fact, we should be in support of those people against state power, if we are considering ourselves leftists.
This is actually the big lie. Hitler didn’t invent it. Goebells learned from contemporaries of his day and in school. Generally the elite class knows methods to control the masses, but Machiavelli has written some how to books already.
Freuds Nephew, Edward Bernays was giving classes on PR while Goebells attending Journalism school. He was not notable. “Goebbels rose to power in 1933 along with Hitler and the Nazi Party and he was appointed Propaganda Minister.”
He was in college during (WW I 1914-18)
How to Brainwash a Nation, Sigmund Freud Style.
Mythologizing Goebells and Hitler,(and white washing the west & zionism) has turned them into evil geniuses, which they weren’t. They didn’t invent anything, save a few gas chambers.
The big advantage of that appearing on NBC is that we can now definitively call what’s going on in Syria as the U.S. war on Syria.
I’d forgotten about Suleiman’s mysterious death. Thanks for the reminder.
Here’s an interesting review article on Syria reminding us that the-surge-is-working Petreaus is doing his worst as head of CIA.
I favor Assad handling rebels the same way Lincoln & Sherman did.
I don’t find your arguments convincing that Libya and Syria weren’t both planned by larger powers ahead of time. Prostests were overthrown by armed salafists, and I was paying attention from the beginning.
And your entreaties to drum up support from progressives or the left for imperialist intervention to save what you are terming a grass roots internal uprising is ridiculous. Empire doesn’t free people, it enslaves them in the system. If you haven’t noticed I’ve never made any excuses for Assad. It’s possible to take the position of support for the people without choosing between the US or Assad, in fact I’m against them both.
The US is already there anyway. They are trying to pick who they’d like the winner to be.
Record of U.S. intervention is in Killing Hope by William Blum. In 50 U.S. CIA/military international interventions post-WWII, they all left the 99ers on the intervenee much worse off.
Besides, why is it up to outsiders to pick winners & losers?
Don’t tell me. It’s right on the tip of my tongue…
Got it! White man’s burden.
You’ve totally discredited yourself. You know not of whom you speak.
presstv doing report on Blackwater participation in various U.S. international interventions. Just another was of
plausiblelaughable deniability.Yeah. Well. All they understand is violence. /s That’s why after reading three cups of tea, we built a few schools and distributed elementary school books that contained pictures of guns and tanks to learn how to count with. /s not.
There was a good interview by Scott Horton on antiwar.com about how HRW, ICC, other ‘humanitarian’ orgs pick & choose who is the good guy & who is the bad guy. RT just did small item on how same is going on in Lebanon. Only refugees who claim to be anti-Assad are granted relief. Since Horton got downsized from antiwar & started his own website, I can’t find the interview.
And that’s BEFORE they testify in front of congress that Saddam Hussein pulled the plug on premies.
AbuKhalil is clearly a supporter of Hezbulloh. Increasingly critical of their support for Assad, yes. In that, he is more realistic than many of the progressive left.
But still in sympathy with Hez’s broad regional goals and still portraying the Syrian Rebellion contradictorily both as a “Regional War” propelled by Western initiatives while at the same time expressing sympathy for the Syrian people in their struggle.
Nice sentiments in half measure, but to what practical effect?
Read here:
http://english.al-akhbar.com/blogs/angry-corner/another-nasrallah-speech
http://english.al-akhbar.com/blogs/angry-corner/nasrallah-syria
Do Nasrallah’s speeches have as much meaning as O’s?
Pure straw man argument you put forward.
I didnt say Hitler and Goebbels invented propaganda. I said they used it very effectively to hoodwink masses of disgruntled leftists into following an extremist rightwing agenda during times of acute economic dislocation.
Yes, no doubt that you do favour the regime’s destruction of the rebellion.
Thanks for making yourself clear.
I don’t find your assertions convincing without citation.
facts, please!
Huh?
You should have put something like “Fact” for your unsupported claim that As’ad “AbuKhalil is clearly a supporter of Hezbulloh.”, so that everyone could know that it’s true.
He’s a supporter of Palestine. His analysis is critically objective towards Hezbollah but supports the movement as regards to Israel.
Go ahead and pick a quote out that says he supports Hezbollah wrongly, and copy it here. I’m not leaving this site to read two articles, when I read him all the time.
He’s well known, and no one has ever asserted what you’ve said. Asa Wintsanley said he was coming underfire for not supporting the SNC, which he has been proved right (see aCAHN above. Link Here
He’s part of a roundtable here:
Obama 2.0
“Empire discusses the failures and successes of Barack Obama’s presidency
Joining us as our guests: Roger Hodge, the author of Mendacity of Hope: Barack Obama and the Betrayal of American Liberalism; Dr Stefan Halper, the former foreign policy advisor to the Nixon, Ford and Reagan administrations; Ralph Nader, an independent presidential candidate; As’ad Abu Khalil, the founder of the Angry Arab news blog.
Interviewees: Jeremy Scahill, the national security correspondent at The Nation; and Matt Hoh, a former Marine Captain.”
You’re going to have to be more specific.
WRT Lincoln/Sherman, just pointing out that U.S. has, and would again, do far worse than Assad at putting down rebellion. For example, U.S. police use full riot gear to put down pipsqueak Occupy movement.
So I don’t know why anyone living in the U.S., where Lincoln is lionized, has any moral authority to criticize Assad.
WRT Nasrallah’s speeches, O usually says one thing but does the opposite. As I am not familiar with Nasrallah’s speeches, and not that familiar with his actions, I’m wondering if his actions are consistent with his speeches.
He’s not a progressive. He’s a marxist. If you were familiar you would know that.
This is “ends justify the means” liberal pragmatism. The onus is on you to find the moral means to a moral end, not the person that decries the amoral or immoral means.
This type of pragmatism, the same that is prevalent with liberals and the democrats fail Kant’s categorical imperative test. It’s evil.
I have to step out, but here’s two amusing posts:
Evidence: CSI Pentagon
“Pentagon: Bulgaria terror attack bears hallmarks of Hezbollah”. So he refused to identify the hallmarks of Hizbullah attack but said that the bomber left behind 1) a poster for Hasan Nasrallah; 2) a TV turned in to Al-Manar; 3) a variety of Hizbullah literature; 4) a copy of a Hizbullah’s mouthpiece. 5) and a scribbled note in which the attacker said: by the way, I belong to Hizbullah, in case you are wondering.
Posted by As’ad AbuKhalil at 2:25 PM”
Hizbullah attacks Al-Akhbar
“According to this article, a source in Hizbullah attacks Al-Akhbar newspaper for its criticisms and attacks on the Asad regime. It said that they were upset with the Wikileaks documents (published in Al-Akhbar) that were embarrassing for the Asad regime. It also talks about articles by Ibrahim Al-Amin that displeased the Syrian regime. (thanks Mirvat)
PS This came days after my article in Al-Akhbar which criticized the stance of Hizbullah toward the Syrian crisis.
Posted by As’ad AbuKhalil at 11:15 AM”
Thought of a more communicative way to express my thought. Should have asked it as a Q: Do you think Assad should have as much authority in Syria as Lincoln had in the U.S.?
The way I originally phrased it was a rhetorical device which obviously didn’t work the way I intended.
In fact, I have great intuitive problems with Lincoln, so much so that I don’t read anything about him bc the literature is so biased.
O’Donkeytale’s “revolution” (or rather devolution) is supported by the Institute for the Study of War, a DC propaganda tank with Liz Cheney, William Kristol, and Kimberly Kagan on the board. Liz O’Bagy, a student at GW’s Center for Contemporary Arab Studies and “Research Analyst” @ISW cynically promotes a collapsed state as “revolution”.
Suppose Americans were given a choice between a Obama/Romney and a collapsed federal government? O’Donkeytale, the character, would side with the happy libertarians and Southern secessionists. What would progressives resort to in this situation? Would options would they have?
It’s likely this is not a rhetorical question.
July 26th, from Kelly McEvers, foreign correspondent based in Beirut, in Syria:
That’s an O’Donkeytale “revolution”.
Sorry, I should learn to read more closely..
Do tell.. What are Hezbollah’s broad regional goals?
And you haven’t really offered any arguments about what is wrong is with Hezbollah.
I don’t agree with the State Dept’s determination that anyone who resists Israeli attacks and occupations on their own country are a terrorist group.
The EU rejected Israel’s request to classify them as a terrorist group in response to the bombing in bulgaria that is likely to be a mafia attack, but they are also a political party.
Tzi Lipny thought it was awful they would demand more than Israel’s say-so, forgetting her own terrorist ass was protected from entering GB because is/was in a government position.
For the record, the shia are from the area. They’ve always lived there. It was the failure of the Lebanese Army to protect the south from Israel incursion that lead to the formation of the Hezbollah militia. They are not an Iranian implantation as is so dishonestly portrayed.
Hamas, who is a sunni Palestinian group is also supported by Iran, they used to be supported by Iraq, Kuwait, and KSA too.
July 25th, Kelly McEvers, from In Syria’s North, A Shadow State Emerges:
The “revolutionary” model: suprastate informational elite in the sky, populist theocracies below.
There’s a lot of information out there about HRW being selective. They get a big chunk of their budget from the State Dept., so they don’t hardly ever criticize us. This came up a lot when we’d have those arguments over Venezuela before Macaquerman got banned.
AngryArab (PBUH) hammers on them all the time.
July 25th, Kelly McEvers, from In Syria’s North, A Shadow State Emerges:
Most unusual that donkeytale doesn’t have crisp talking points if that’s where s/he’s coming from.
so, what’s the problem?
There are a lot of things wrong with our own country, before we start pointing things out we ought to pluck some logs out of our own eyes.
Saudi Arabia, our client, is one a most brutal and backward countries, and they export it to the others. We ought to close the barn door. And an honorable mention should go to another recipient of American Largess: You can visit Uzbekistan for a CIA torture holiday destination, they boil people alive.
a) O’Donkeytale, whoever he is, likely doesn’t “come from” there. He supposedly comes from some uber-left position which has an affinity with a Cheney shop. Of course he’s got to do a lot of dancing.
I have a hard time figuring out what dl’s point is. Gonna give up trying.
Yeah. But this is the neo-conservative revolution for the homeland as well.
My only favorable comment vis-a-vis the U.S. is that chances are, any other country with as much power as the U.S. would be just as bad.
Some small powerless countries, though, like Equatorial Guinea under Macais Nguema, would give the U.S. a run for its money as The Worst.
O’Dt’s objective is to define a neocon uber-left position for despondent progressives.
Lotsa lefties open to this. r2p
So, do you want to go?
“Lefties”, yeah. Brand “lefty” compradors.
I’m being just as specific as you are. Moreso in fact!
You are just winging it.
Here is AbuKahlil for the third post writng from a Hez perspective. I’m not claiming he is wrong but in spots he’s purely theorising or repeating rumours, and he’s entirely in sympathy with Hez.
http://english.al-akhbar.com/node/7768
Fair enough. If I ever start sounding like Jones, please point it out.
. . . ? I’m quite serious.
“Goebells and Hitler . . . didn’t invent anything”
Indeed. Not lebensraum. Not anti-semitism. Not the Treaty of Versailles. Not the Great Depression. Not the decline of sea powers and the rise of land powers occasioned by the advent of rail travel.
While wildly popular due to its simplifying narrative appeal, the Big Man theory of how the world works is, to be kind, lacking in explanatory powers.
*wow* I’m sorry that I’d sleep through all this excellent repartee, folks…! *g*
Trotsky’s chicken hawk would like us to think this diary is off to oblivion.
*heh* Ditto that, otto…! ;-)
Donkeytale, I’ve finally figured out what ails ya in your analysis…! You seem to have no working knowledge of Islam, nor any of the multitude of religions, that do in fact reside in the ME…! You also fail to grasp any knowledge of their long histories therein…!
That is a very good article that showing Abukhalil writing from a historical perspective, and it’s neutral, or perhaps from a perspective of a palestinian lived in lebanon.
I asked you for specifics about my comments that you disagreed with.
Here is that exchange.
DT at 66
SKF at 69
DT at 90
This is not debate, it’s the intellectual equivalent of “I know you are, so what am I”
As for your assertion that I am just winging it, you’re full of shit. I want truth and it doesn’t matter what side of the line that it comes down on.
I also asked you for citations and links for the assertions you have made. I’m not interested in coming out on top of an exchange based on sarcasm or the best put down.
I am not interested in counter propaganda or simply other perspectives.
Everyone has an opinion. In this age of much noise and an incredible amount of propaganda.
I put very hight value on provenance of videos and pictures, and I weigh an author or source on a my own scale of trustworthiness or jurisprudence, and then cross reference.
I try to make it a point to keep an open mind and to own or wed myself to one position- in that if I am proven wrong Its not going to hurt my ego.
If I have become a victim of a trite thought stopping cliche or hold a belief and can’t explain why I hold that opinion, if you ask me why or ask me for a reference then we both can gain from that. I am not criticizing you personally. Truisms should be challenged.
Now, I see that you make many of these assumptions- some of them are your own hubris about what you think you know, for instance that I am a victim of Assad’s propaganda.
Let’s give this a “fer instance”.
DT 51:
Assumption #1: more journalists and observers are able to slip into the country and provide reports
Statement #2: to provide reports that render the Syrian government narrative insupportable
As to #1, getting reputable journalists in and out of the country has been a problem.
and getting observers into Syria who aren’t naive, can speak and understand the language, are familiar with the culture, and are objective is also a problem.
If reporters are embedded with the rebels they are led up the garden path, as can be seen in Ludwig’s copy of your post at #75- which resonate as truth.
or in one case the rebels try to make martyrs of the reporters to gain support.
Syrian rebels tried to get me killed, says Channel 4 correspondent
Statement #2: provide reports that render the Syrian government narrative insupportable
Firstly, I trust that what comes out of the Syrian government to be disinformation or self interested, likewise the KSA funded media like Al Arabiyya,or Al Aswat, and even Al monitor, likewise AJ should be heavily corroborated and the autor of the piece is important. Also, a reputable author might be censored.
Secondly, this statement exposes you as a partisan, not being objective and having your own agenda.
Thirdly, I am not interested in a narrative, which is synthesis. It’s forging a story from incomplete parts. Have you ever written or edited a controversial wiki page?
There are many perspectives for each event. Not one of them is the right one unless it’s made up of lies.
Setting aside your ad homs against Tarpley and Escobar, and your repeated call to focus on “first hand reporting” from reporters or ” by mountains of evidence” most of which has no provenance (date, location, description, photographer, context), or a trusted chain of custody, you want to limit that information or perspective, by engaging in a dishonest character assassination of As’ad AbuKhalil by discrediting his analysis or sources i.e. “each is not on the scene,” , ” He cherry picks his presentation from unknown and anonymous persons. All unverified, mostly unsourced rumours possibly fictionalised. Who can tell from him what are “real facts on the ground”?”
Here’s is just one piece of out of that mountain of evidence:
Let me give you an expample of a piece of the mountain of evidence that ought to give everyone to be judicious.
Who can tell from him what are the real facts on the ground? In some of these countries exposing your identity is deadly, his sources are local. He does give the reason for anonymity unlike the MSM who protect the identities of government mouthpieces who many times are leakers of disinfo. There is no danger to them at all by going on the record.
As far as cherry picking, most of AA blog posts are quick points. His longer analysis are not cherry picked, and you ought to show specifically what he has left out – as in citations.
Besides having read him for about three years, I trust him, Hes also trusted by many people whose reporting I also trust. (Jeremy Scahill, Glenn Greenwald, Nir Rosen). He is sought out by authors of books on the Middle east, and to do book translations.
He has history of admitting when he’s reported information incorrectly. He doesn’t change blog posts to correct.
You have made some mischaracterizations here.
I certainly have not expressed that I think that Syrians or Palestinians or Lebanese should engage in non violent protests against an oppressive or violent regime nor is it my place to rule out using violence to throw them off.
It’s not my place to decide for them what is best for them.
But is that exactly what you are doing when you talk disparagingly someone who supports or might support Hezbollah? Are you not implicitly denying them the right of itself agency to free themselves, or guarantee their own freedom from an oppressive violent state regime?
Ironically you call some “useful idiots”, or water carriers for Assad, but you advocate for a historically repressive state power to step in and take out a historically repressive state power which happens to be weaker, and would replace it with a tinpot dictator or a puppet.
This effectively makes you: A) a useful idiot, or B) a cruise missile liberal and not a leftists.
Humanitarian sympathies don’t make you a leftist.
I’ve also noticed a sin of omission on your part, where you have never mentioned the minorities who are rightfully afraid of what the salafists will do to them, and that Assad still has supporters.
Why do you deny the reality that this uprising has become a proxy war for hegemony and paint it as an Assad plot?
Brava, Shek, Brava…! *g*
Sorry for all the punctuation errors. I wasn’t wearing my glasses and i was moving things around a bit,
” I try to make it a point to keep an open mind and to NOT own or wed myself to one position- in that if I am proven wrong Its not going to hurt my ego.”
I am not criticizing you personally, if you are engaging honestly with some humility. I think you cross that line.
*heh* Ya should make it a myfdl post, M’dear…! ;-)
:)
Thanks for the diary. Maybe I’ll write a different one though- on the bulgarian bombing.
I’ve already said the stuff in the comment once to try to get donkey-tales to be more objectively critical. I don’t want to repeat it.
Boy, if donkeytales doesn’t ring like a freudian slip for a codename, none of them do.
You’ve just been kissed, O’Donkeytale. Are you a prince or a frog?
none of them do.
Ain’t that the truth…? ;-)
I’d really look forward to your take on the Bulgarian bombing and some of the ramifications…! I’ve only followed it loosely…!
CT: Congratulations for this post. This is, without a doubt~!, one of the most interesting and informative threads I’ve read here at FDL. I’ll be chewing on it, reading links, thinking and assessing and trying to learn for days to come. This is the stuff that I enjoy at FDL…… in addition to visiting at LLN, of course!
I’m totally stoked with how this post has evolved, M’dear…! I’m so appreciative of what the Lake has become, especially at the depth and width it’s grown, and, I truly consider it my duty to assist it any manner that I can…! *g*
I wear my bleeding heart proudly on my sleeve…! ;-)
This is my last comment to you.
CTuttle @ 22:
holeybuybull @ 27 re CTuttle 22:
donkeytale @ 28 re holeybuybull @ 27
Bullying and calling people names is how you disagree with viewpoints or observation.
According to you.. it’s Assad’s fault that Salafists are killing minorities.
I guess you didn’t realize that if they didn’t have guns, they weren’t fighting the rebels..
Yet, in your fetid imagination minority christians were privileged bourgeios, therefore killing them for sectarian reasons is justified.
NIce George Bush imitation- you’re with us or against us.
Let me go ahead and bring up the nazi’s here. yuck.
Wow. So, in your opinion, Lincoln had no moral authority to put down the confederate rebellion?
Or, are you equating Assad with Lincoln? The Syrian rebellion with the US Civil War?
You sure you wish to pursue this simile?
Actually, no. I present ideas and information to counter vague nonsense.
Yes, the US is covertly involved. I said so in the first sentence of my diary, which I’m sure you read fairly and grasped, even if you disagreed with it.
No this isnt a “proxy war,” as one is historically defined. To call it such is to belittle the sacrifice of a historically repressed people in the process of throwing off their chains.
Yes, it has been difficult getting reporters into and out of Syria. Why? Because the Syrian government doesn’t tolerate journalism they don’t own.
No, your opinion of the quality of the journalists who did manage to slip in (some of whom were killed in the process) is not a fact, its an assertion.
I also value AbuKhalil’s viewpoints, however he is slanted and not factually based much of the time he is at least as guilty of the same dishonesty he claims for the MSM. He is not a reporter, merely another blogger offering his slanted viewpoint.
Tarpley is a joke. Escobar is a joke, although entertaining and occasionally credible (in the same sense a broken clock is also credible twice per day).
The point is simply because you trust a blogger or receive confirmation of the blogger’s point of view from other bloggers whose points of view you trust doesn’t automatically qualify them (or you) as oracles of truth. In fact, its the “automatic” or “reflexive” “belief” in anything that we should all constantly question.
Otherwise we become no more than dogmatists, which I am sure we wish never to be.
No, I am not advocating for a repressive state power to step in and take out a repressive state power. I’m advocating for individuals to understand and support a rebellion against a repressive state power that is surely receiving aid from the US/West and Arab countries, rather than withholding their support for popular resistance against a repressive state power under any circumstances, but especially against one that has an incredibly rich history of repression and brutality against its own people.
If you wish to say that the US is such a repressive state and should be equally resisted, I won’t argue, although I wouldn’t agree that the level of repression is at all equivalent. Certainly, the courage and the force of whatever resistance exists in the US isn’t equivalent with that in Syria, either.
And if and when the resistance in the US reaches the stage of murderous reaction by the state on the level of the Assadian response, I will be quite happy to accept the assistance of outside forces wishing to offer support for the rebellion.
The first sentence of my “most recent” diary, meant to specify.
dada
Indigestible chunks of corn in shit.
O’Donkeytale:
The Pentagon won’t be helping you out there, doofus.
Hard kernels of truth can be difficult for the self-deceived to digest.
Thanks for the intelligent, mature dialogue.
[;o)