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One of the realities of life appears to be that economic bad times bring out the vultures, AKA, Debt Collectors. Now, the debt collectors are around, even in good times, but they multiply in bad.
Unfortunately, it appears that one of our previous Congresses decided to help things get that much worse. To no one’s surprise, it was a Republican controlled Congress, the 109th, that decided state level district attorney’s offices could out-source collections of bad checks. And with the extra fillip in some states (like Florida) that the collection firm can require the bad check writer to attend and pay for mandatory "money-management" classes.
As bad as that is, however, it pales in comparison to a collections trick the NY Times reports on for today, March 4:
Dead people are the newest frontier in debt collecting, and one of the healthiest parts of the industry. Those who dun the living say that people are so scared and so broke it is difficult to get them to cough up even token payments.
Collecting from the dead, however, is expanding. Improved database technology is making it easier to discover when estates are opened in the country’s 3,000 probate courts, giving collectors an opportunity to file timely claims. But if there is no formal estate and thus nothing to file against, the human touch comes into play.
Now think about this for a minute. Your loved one; parent, brother sister, child has died with outstanding debts and this company is calling you to assume the debt.
For some relatives, paying is pragmatic. The law varies from state to state, but generally survivors are not required to pay a dead relative’s bills from their own assets. In theory, however, collection agencies could go after any property inherited from the deceased.
Over the years, I have had some dealings with collections agencies. When it was my debt, I made arrangements and paid the debt as soon as I could. I’ve also had to deal with collectors when I had the same name as the person they were trying to collect from (that was fun as I had all the proof on my side and the firm that was actually owed the money knew I was not the person the lawyer/collector was after). Firms need to be able to collect monies owed to them.
But going after folks for bouncing checks and forcing them to pay more for "money-management" classes when things are already bad for them?
Going after survivors of the recently deceased because it is easier to prey on their feelings than it is to collect from the living?
Truly, if there is a Hell, then these vultures will have their own special levels.
Update: And please check out Christy’s post this morning on the former executives from Countrywide and their vulture tricks as well.
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The Digg is open
While it is just one piece of the puzzle that is our economic disaster, it shows that those that created it have not been reformed or chastened by the experience but continue to act in exactly the same amoral and immoral way that got us to where we are now.
BTW Newsweek had a brainless semi-defense of bonuses. You see if they are made in stock it aligns managers’ interests with investors which no doubt explains how the financial meltdown didn’t happen. Like I said brainless.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/187632
Well, of course, Newsweek is going to defend bonuses. I would have been surprised if they didn’t defend them.
They’re just some more of the clueless who really have no understanding at all of reality outside their cocktail circuit.
Hospitals are among the vultures trying to collect from relatives who did not sign as guarantors for the “care” that was being rendered when the patient died. Heinous.
I hope some of these dead people are haunting the vultures…
And who the passes laws enabling this kind of meanness?
That “token” payment is a loaded gun for debtors heavily in debt for a long time.
A suffering debtor in chronic debt owing to job loss, divorce or sickness might go years without paying debts other than rent, for example. Longer if he or she lives rough or with friends. Debts become legally uncollectable after a term of years, often varying from two to six years. (As long as twenty if a forceful creditor obtains a court judgment.) After that time, a creditor cannot legally force the debtor to pay, though the non-payment continues to affect the debtor’s credit rating.
Make that “token” payment, however, and that term of years starts running all over again. In that sense, it’s not a token, but a substantial inadvertent commitment.
Naturally, getting that token payment is a big deal among the collections “fraternity”. They work hard to set the hook in the jaw, pull hard and reel in. The stock dialogue they learn is embarrassing. But they get credit for setting the hook, even if they don’t land the fish.
And most collections organizations really are persistent in the negative ways. I’ve moved a lot over the years and a couple of times (besides the one I mentioned), I’ve gotten a new phone number that had previously belonged to someone who wound up with debt problems.
So I then spend the next year or two, getting phone calls from the collections groups and no matter how many times you tell them that it was a new listing as of XX date, they still call because your number is the last number and connection they had to the debtor.
Hospitals and funeral homes should be required to notify survivors of the law in their state. Survivors should not be preyed upon in their time of grief.
Yeah, that was the one that got to me the most. The company in the Times article is literally preying on people during their bereavement. They use empathy and pretend to care but all they are doing is running as much of a scam as the Nigerian e-mails crap.
“You don’t want to have the world remember your mother/father/brother as a deadbeat, do you?”
And read about how they describe the process: ending one relationship while starting up an entirely new one.
It is sick and wrong. Lying to people about the money their loved one owed at the end of their lives is just horrible. Wait til the stories emerge about creditor agencies seizing people’s cars or jewelry to “settle” dead loved ones’ debts.
To be honest, I want my family and friends to remember me as someone who cared for them and tried to help as much as I could.
And if I die with a few thousand dollars of credit card debt, then the stipulation will be to cut up the cards and hoist an extra shot of bourbon at my wake that I was able to get over on folks.
Excellent idea!
Gotta keep Digging this one, OxPups!
Did someone say “vultures”?
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/…..refer=home
Vulture Funds.
Totally
i have dealt with this issue on this board previously.
all those with a claim against an estate must file their claim in probate court. that is the way it works.
never let a purported creditor of a decedent brow-beat you into paying in advance of that purported creditor filing with the probate court. make him[them] come into court and establish their claim.
if their is a legitimate claim, and the estate has enough cash to settle that claim, the probate court will issue an order that the executor must settle that claim.
on the other hand, if the estate has no resources, the creditor loses. the executor is not required to pay the decedent’s claim from his/her pocket. because the executor/executrix did not create the debt.
as a rule, that is the law. never be browbeaten by a decedent’s creditor to pay any decedent’s debts out of your pocket.
Another word to anyone facing debt collectors. Refuse to discuss the debt with anyone other than the original company. It doesn’t matter that they have ‘turned over the debt’ to a collection agency. The money (or at least 50% of it) does go back to the original company. So only discuss it with them.
If you dispute the debt or the terms of it – Send them a letter with the reasons for the dispute – make copies, send it return receipt requested, with the demand that they cease and desist all further efforts at collection under the Fair Credit Reporting Act until the dispute is settled.
Do not make a token payment unless you intend to continue making payments.
If you do decide to make some sort of payment, send it to the original company. They can figure out if they want to give half to the collection agency, but you then have a direct record of your payment to the original company.
If you are feeling particularly harassed by a collection agency, contact the CCCS (Consumer Credit Counseling Services). They can help get this stopped and also provide tools and information to deal with the debt as well. Many of their services are free.
CNN did a piece on this “industry” too. Hmm, I smell a PR firm kissing a lot of butt. Pathetic.