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Did you hear the one about the Ex Democratic Party Chairman and the peace activist walking into the coffee shop?
That was Tim Kaine and me on Saturday.
He’s the former governor of Virginia, former DNC Chair, and current candidate for the US Senate.
He arrived nearly an hour late for his event here in Charlottesville at a local coffee shop. I met him outside and walked in with him to ask him a question on the way, knowing I’d have to leave before he got around to taking questions as part of the event itself.
I pointed out to him that the US Conference of Mayors was expected to vote on Monday to ask Congress to end its unpopular wars in order to direct the spending to something useful. Would you, if elected, I asked him, vote to continue funding these wars?
One possible answer, a democratic if not Democratic one, would have been this: “No.”
Another would have been: “That depends . . . . ”
Instead, Kaine said he wanted me to ask him that question during the event. Whether he would have taken my question, I don’t know, but I couldn’t stick around. A friend who did told me that Kaine did not say one word about our wars in Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Yemen, etc., or about the military budget.
Other than his cheering for the killing of Osama bin Laden, I can’t find any mention of wars or the military on Kaine’s campaign website either.
Kaine began his speech (I was there for part of it) by claiming to be Christian and religious and to care about values and to want to look out for everybody including the least of these and to follow the example of the Good Samaritan.
One has to wonder who Jesus would bomb.
Kaine talked up investment in education, but did not specify whether he went along with the Obama-Duncan privatizing model.
He talked up fiscal responsibility without privatizing Social Security or Medicare, but he did not say what it was he WOULD cut.
This was all by way of arguing that Virginia is relatively successful economically. My friend, Dave Shreve, said he asked Kaine whether Virginia’s vicinity to Washington, D.C., and all its government contracts didn’t play a big role. Kaine reportedly admitted as much. Of course, most of that spending is for the military, “homeland security,” and related fields.
Where does Kaine stand?
His record and his relentless praise for President Obama suggest that he stands where he’s told to stand.
That doesn’t inspire me.
Our former congressman, Tom Perriello, told the local newspaper, the Daily Progress, today that he would have backed war in Libya, unlike his Republican replacement.
Republicans deserve all the scorn that Kaine and other Democrats devote so much of their stump speeches to, but if all it gets us is greater militarism, don’t you know that you can count me out?
59 Comments
Perriello was always a bit of a hawk. He’s been endorsed by the NRA in the past.
Kaine is a prick, tho.
Tim who?
Nice you had a question and you checked to see if he talked about any topics the Left cares about Tim is a fake Dem we are better off without him.
Really. Ditto on that.
That the Democrats are against Wars is an Urban Myth. Jimmy Carter even had some secret ones.
And the Democrats plan to join with the Republicans in having everyday Americans pick up the tab for the trillion dollars a year “War Party” and the trillion dollars a year “Bush Tax Cuts Party” by taking Americans’ Social Security monies and and Medicare monies.
We have another month of the debt/deficit games to watch. It will be hard for any of them to walk past getting hit in the face with it. I already see how the repugs followers are all upset and find it hilarious that their own creation is causing them so much harm. People are stupid, but when it comes down to taking away from the least of us to give to corporations and warring, look out! They have set themselves up another trap to stick up in.
Please don’t feed…
Carter was an Annapolis alum.
;-)
Nah. It should get it’s libral goings on at Fox nooze. They have the untarnished lies on everything.
This one can’t even fuckin’ read. Typical.
Excuse me for a minute. I’ve got to step outside on the deck to get the fly swatter.
Good Morning….Angela and I miss you already. Have a good family visit.
Promises, promises….I am sure you can find your own link if you were interested.
Goodbye then
Defense-related expenditure↓ 2012 Budget request & Mandatory spending[18][19]↓ Calculation[20][21]↓
DOD spending $707.5 billion Base budget + “Overseas Contingency Operations”
FBI counter-terrorism $2.7 billion At least one-third FBI budget.
International Affairs $5.6–$63.0 billion At minimum, foreign arms sales. At most, entire State budget
Energy Department, defense-related $21.8 billion
Veterans Affairs $70.0 billion
Homeland Security $46.9 billion
NASA, satellites $3.5–$8.7 billion Between 20% and 50% of NASA’s total budget
Veterans pensions $54.6 billion
Other defense-related mandatory spending $8.2 billion
Interest on debt incurred in past wars $109.1–$431.5 billion Between 23% and 91% of total interest
Total Spending $1.030–$1.415 trillion
Kaine really disappointed a lot of people. Of course, the disappointment of him is nothing in comparison to The Great Pretender.
SD! Enjoying your visit with your bro?
Margaret, You are a gift. Do these numbers include the windfall for private contractors doing their dirty work?
Nope Rev, just the “offical”, (and therefore incomplete), spending.
You are too darned good! Hey, he/she already knew that. Besides, there are black budgets in every single category which will increase all those numbers by at least two!
Thank you, thank you, thank you . . . of course, trolls never keep their promises. You’re a wiz, Margaret.
David
Why are you hanging around with Democrat sleaze? What else do you expect? What’s the point?
Just move on, ignore them and move your attention to something other than the Uniparty – any of them – there are no good ones amongst them.
They are not your friends.
Wonder what sort of bump up the contractors, et al would add? Just more shocking, Im sure.
I think it’s still worth hanging around with them sometimes to help expose them to those who are still unaware of their true nature.
Wow! Look at that. My fly swatter missed. It looks like a flag when I wave it around.
People, trolls ignored dry up and vanish–it’s a known fact. Don’t let this one continue to hijack every thread it enters, that’s just what it wants.
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Nope gesneri, I knew it would weasel out of that, (or any other), promise. Being conservative and being a troll means that reality is malleable but now everybody on this post will know spidermonkey for what s/he is and thus it will be easier to just
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Tim Kaine was a disaster for the DNC and therefore he did exactly what he was told to do and he did it very well. No doubt his next gig will be lucrative and fat.
Wonder how long the mods will leave this one alone….a real jerk and not informed.
Because it’s his JOB to do that kind of thing.
Yep. Aren’t they all? If it is not a large corporate head position, then it is a cushy Lobby stint where they never actually leave Washington.
Kaine is a steaming heap of shit. Don’t step in it.
Republicans love lefty third parties precisely because they peel off votes that would otherwise go to the Democrats. That’s why they’ve given them millions, in cash and paid TV and radio and other ads, over the years. (Hell, at one point the Pennsylvania Green Party was run and funded almost totally by Republicans!)
But when it comes to righty third parties like the original Tea Partiers, the Republican attitude is hostile in the extreme, as they know they’re a threat to GOP hegemony. This is shown by the speed at which the Republicans moved, with the Koch brothers and Dick Armey tasked to do so, to co-opt and reabsorb the original, largely secular, TEA Party
back into the GOP fold:
The question remains: What’s the best way to project one’s power?
This could be bunk:
http://nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/International/18-Jun-2011/US-orders-news-blackout-over-crippled-Nebraska-Nuclear-Plant-report
http://goo.gl/LrH8Y
But then again it may not be. Today it’s unclear we can know.
But I support a sunshine / freedom of speech / freedom from
fear wing of the party. A more cohesive group can circle
the wagons.
Al Franken is a natural choice for organizing that.
Ralph Nader can opt-in for a dual-party role even intermittently.
If it’s simply these basic cornerstones that we care about then
we can care less about lesser issues when necessary to do so.
The DoD annual budget doesn’t include the (huge) debt and interest on all the wars, or the government money that is spent on all our broken soldiers.
Excellent–thank you, Margaret!
This jerk was the worst DNC chair in the history of the party. The party actively chose not to campaign in a number of crucial states, Ohio, Wisconsin, Florida. The Ohio governor Strickland was defeated by Obama’s new golf partner Kasich by 2 points. No National campaign efforts. No speeches or support for Strickland or the other Democrats running. The only campaigns funded were conservadems. I would like to see how much money was taken into the DNC for 2010 and how much of that was held back for the 2012 Obama campaign. Kaine supported the idea of ceding the House to the Repubs for a 2012 governing foil.
Heh, you mean “Jim I vote for FISA Webb’s choice” Tim Kaine? You mean Mr. “I have a say what goes on with your uterus” Kaine? Meh. I sure hope the Democratic party get’s used to losing seats because I’m darn tired of being asked to vote for GOP lite. I’m done with it actually.
As DNC chair, Kaine supported public employees in Wisconsin, but as governor of Virginia, he refused to discuss the topic with Virginia’s public employees. We have never had the right to collective bargaining, a condition codified by a Democratic governor in the early ’90s.
Add that to the topics Kaine won’t discuss.
I once thought, years ago, Tim was a decent guy. Hanging around the Dems has sucked every bit of decency out of him.
18 BILLION INTO CHENY BUSH,RICE COFFERS
http://english.aljazeera.net/news/middleeast/2011/06/201161962910765678.html
Jeez Louise…No wonder that they want to go and start all those little wars…
Basil Fawlty
“One has to wonder who Jesus would bomb.”
Edit:
One has to wonder who Jesus would bomb, drone attack or torture.
Fixed it.
Carter aided genocide of the East Timorese among other war crimes. Breaks a heart to learn what America and it’s politicians have done for a dollar.
Really, smonkey? Defender of wasted dollars on “defense” and defender of the banks? We both know you are quite teh stickler for the “facts”, so yeah, a trillion may be an exaggeration but how far is it really off?
I like that idea but if we don’t beat the nonsense out of the hecklers, then who will? If we ignore them they just go away to continue the bad behavior elsewhere. I’m for taking responsibility and basically just using them for inspirational purposes. Helps us sharpen our responses too because what reasonable push back opportunities are we going to get to discuss these things. They are rare. Then there is the audience. Someone casually observes the discussion and sees the nonsense unchecked and because no one challenges it, maybe it is even reinforced.
I consider it like a performance and if there existed a heckler, you either get the staff to remove them, but it’s likely they were being careful enough that they didn’t cross a blatant line. So, treat them the way a good comic would treat an unruly audience member. I think less troll, more heckler. We can’t know if the person is a blatant troll any way, just a very strong suspicion and that really isn’t good enough.
I get it how some don’t want to respond. They may on occasion or may never. Maybe they prefer no one else engage. Maybe they believe they are being more highly evolved. Maybe they fear any distraction would hurt the discussion or FDL. All those things may be real, but I don’t have to agree.
So, treat them how they deserve. If they speak nonsense and don’t want to have a conversation, present them with ridicule and derision. That is how I deal with climate change deniers now. I’m done explaining to the morons, even the well intentioned, ignorant and misled ones. It takes all sorts of responses from all different people. For some, ignoring works, that’s cool, just not ALWAYS anyone’s style.
Smonkey has made a habit of these types of remarks. And he or she is right. He or she is a force of darkness by own admission. Maybe not always or everywhere, but here, yes indeed.
I would hate to be Tim Kaine running next year. A former DNC chairman, with Obummer at the head of the ticket, in this economy, after four years of The Clown™ and his monstrously awful handling of the economy, jobs, the debt, ObamaCare™, and foreign affairs.
I pity any Democrat running next year, and Tim Kaine running in Virginia is going to be all the bloodier for him and his ilk.
“We have never had the right to collective bargaining…”
Because there is NO RIGHT to “collective bargaining.” It is a POWER, given by the government if it so wishes.
A right is something you are born with that cannot be taken away, i.e., the right to life without due process of law.
Collective bargaining can exist in some states, and not exist in others. That is a power, not a right.
Understand the difference, and perhaps you won’t keep yelling out that shopworn mantra, “Collective bargaining rights!”
You mean to say that he was WORSE than Howard “AAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG” Dean?
Worse than him? Worse than Debbie Wasserman-Shithead? Is that possible?
You’re missing the point, spidermonkey. It doesn’t matter if we’re actually spending $1T per year on wars as was claimed and questioned. This is about finding like-minded people.
Suppose I claimed that the Federal government spends $3.69T per year (the entire Federal budget) taking criminal advantage of other people around the world or that the American public wastes on average more than $38,000 per person per year (the difference between the US per capita GDP and the world GDP)… does the fact that these are absurd hurt my argument in any way? Not in the least. When the goal is to find like-minded people (who think the Federal government is oppressive to other nations or who think Americans are wasteful) facts are superfluous.
Sure, Margaret’s analysis wouldn’t convince any objective person with a 5th grade education, but who has received more support and love in this debate? You with all your fact-based, reasoned, “that’s not accurate” bulls***? She listed NUMBERS. And the audience liked the numbers she listed. You lose.
I’ve seen beat downs, not hijacks so much, although I am sure to have missed some.
Some trolls get paid to disrupt so ignore and vanish may work when it’s not a paid per post or especially demented troll.
Treat em as hecklers. There’s an audience for the pushback too. Many of us can learn from the exchanges as well. Hell, there are times my elected Dems spout the same nonsense as trolls. Ignoring an idea doesn’t mean it goes away, even if the particular troll does.
Problem with that is that they hijack any meaningful thread into nothing more than people debating their nonsense. I’ve had to leave some threads without finishing reading because the shit level was just too high.
Strongly agree.
I don’t have the patience or the brain-files to respond to conservatives/trolls, but I do think they are invaluable. They give one an opportunity to practice one’s arguments, so that when one encounters an actual human with a soul, one might win over that human.
I would like to love you in a special way…
You get that my post was sarcastic, right? Maybe not.
I was a contributor to Tim’s 2005 gubernatorial race and sought support for him among out of state contacts.
Only later did I learn that Tim had endorsed Lieberman for President in 2004.
His pro-war foreign policy and ‘pro-Medicare’ privatization subterfuges are the policies of the Obama Administration & Lieberman–that is where the money is– but his mouth may go elsewhere.
This Virginia Democrat n longer believes Tim’s mouth.
I was a contributor to Tim’s 2005 gubernatorial race and sought support for him among out of state contacts.
Only later did I learn that Tim had endorsed Lieberman for President in 2004.
His pro-war foreign policy and ‘pro-Medicare’ privatization subterfuges are the policies of the Obama Administration & Lieberman–that is where the money is– but his mouth may go elsewhere.
This Virginia Democrat no longer believes Tim’s mouth.
Dean was killed by the media the day after he said he’d get rid of the media monopoly and the reason his scream seemed so loud was because the media killed all the sound except his. But you knew that.