According to the Huffington Post, “President Barack Obama’s reelection campaign and Democratic political groups have been eager for Romney to pick Ryan, the architect of plans to slash government spending and overhaul entitlement programs that Democrats believe are political losers.” ABC agrees: “The selection of Ryan as running mate makes it far more likely that Medicare, Social Security, and dramatic spending cuts will be as central to the campaign conversation this fall as jobs and the economy. Adding some of those famed political third rails into the mix is not just a potential risk Romney is willing to take, it is also clearly a potential risk he felt he had to take.”
So, cutting Medicare and Social Security are unpopular, and Obama benefits from Romney’s risky move in picking a runningmate willing to cut them. That’s the story.
Now, however, read this from the New York Times: “The news media have played a crucial role in Mr. Obama’s career, helping to make him a national star not long after he had been an anonymous state legislator. As president, however, he has come to believe the news media have had a role in frustrating his ambitions to change the terms of the country’s political discussion. He particularly believes that Democrats do not receive enough credit for their willingness to accept cuts in Medicare and Social Security, while Republicans oppose almost any tax increase to reduce the deficit.”
So Obama too is willing to take the political risk of cutting the popular programs called Medicare and Social Security. In fact, what Obama wants is not to protect these programs from cuts, but rather to receive appropriate credit from the media corporations for his willingness to cut them. This, we are about to be told endlessly, is in stark contrast to Romney-Ryan’s willingness to cut Medicare and Social Security. But the biggest contrast seems to be that the media gives Romney and Ryan the credit that Obama covets.
Oh no, Obama supporters will reply, there’s a big difference. Romney wants to cut these programs, while Obama is willing to cut them. Romney is evil, while Obama is noble and gracious in his appeasing of evil. I’m sorry, but won’t the catfood that grandma lives on taste as bitter regardless of whether her income was removed maliciously or accommodatingly?
Oh, but Romney-and-Ryan want to cut more than Obama wants to cut.
Are you sure? RR need only triple their demand for Obama to double his. The longer the debate goes on, the more old people Obama wants to starve to demonstrate his willingness to accommodate. In fact, exactly how many old people starve — whether Iranians living under sanctions or Americans living under austerity — is hardly relevant. The important thing is to have gone further toward meeting RR’s demand than RR went toward meeting yours.
But what about the demand of the majority of the country that Social Security and Medicare be expanded rather than cut? What about the popularity of lifting the cap on payroll taxes, lowering the retirement age, and expanding Medicare to include us all? Will that agenda be advanced by cheering for a compromiser over an unapologetic crapitalist?
Of course not. What would move both of these reprehensible candidates away from deeper cuts to decent programs, and toward deeper cuts in the war machine, the fossil fuel funding, the bankster bailouts, and the “Bush” tax cuts is an independent movement that makes its minimum demand an absolute bar on any cuts to Social Security or Medicare whatsoever.
If you don’t soon see progressive groups advancing that demand, expect bad times ahead, regardless of who wins the world’s worst reality drama.




109 Comments

Nice sum up David. The GOPVP spot going to any of the R Stars in the GOP is hardly earthshaking and Paul Ryan has been a marquee name for the Rs long enough to not present much in the way of The Palin Effect which refueled John McCains On Empty WH bid during 2008.
Paul Ryan is wonkish in ways that allow him to run out the odd ideas or odder still means to power those odd ideas. The guy is from WI so there is that component which plays in how the archaic Electoral College numbers may tumble or be “adjusted” by the UniParty gamers. As for the charm factor Paul Ryan comes across like a frustrated man who would have maybe liked being a Jesuit or doing the good work of a zealous moral problem solving Inquisition. While Ryan perhaps could be described as being handsome without great risk of getting vegetables thrown at one for saying so it is doubtful Paul Ryan even cares much about any of that part of the American vote.
Paul Ryan has won a seat in Congress and has been in WashingtonDC long enough to know it is where politics are done by the $ and results are calibrated by those who are comfortable with doing the R vs. D junk while serving the post WW2 American UniParty and its goals. For ever upward spiraling quanities of $$ being thrown at or around by global goaled American militarism . For $$ and EasyPayFine and DriveThruJustice being served to Wall St. crookeds and perps to keep the Big Casino Players pump and dump grifting schemes going for another cycle.
Does Barack Obama want to be a Eisenhower/Reagan R? Does Barack Obama intend to politically sabotage,maim or severely cripple SS and MC? Based on Obamas post Jan.20,2009 WH record lets go with Yes X 2.
I think the UniParty fixers want this WH election to go to BHO and are working the rules and tableplay to bring that about. Mitt Romney is a bit of a tired and has been POTUS candidate all things viewed objectively and putting a WashingtonDC known player like Paul Ryan in to tag team with Mitt Romney seems intended to fall short on purpose.
Barack Obama will do and can do more easily what no R POTUS could or can do without the UniParty managers having to crank up the Kabuki routines to surreal levels to make the Ds look like they are not pulling the same ropes as the Rs. Much easier for the UniParty to just put BHO back in for four more years while the Rs get to sandbag and go Full Kooky and suffer little for doing so.
Picking Paul Ryan for the VP slot seems calculated to do little for Mitt Romney other than allow Paul Ryan to lead lame/gamed American political media away from Mitts banana peel slip-ups with Ryans wonky “out there” political/fiscal stand-up acts and theatre.
Likely missing will be 2008′s Sarah Palin Drama/Creepy Reality Show.
The plan seems to be to put up a Doofus/Goofus R tag team for Obama to do a Bugs Bunny routine around to get Obama four more years in the WH to serve the same interests giving us Doofus/Goofus. Will likely work out OK. For them. For us? Nearest Exits may be behind us.
It’s all a sick joke on the American public.
How grotesque the con becomes as we watch the hack camps for $ bark out their blitherings about how great the carny show showdown will be between the “opponents.”
Sick.
Which is precisely why now is the best time to make that demand.
Romney went with Ryan because he fears losing his base. It would be nice if Obama feared losing what’s supposed to be his base so much that he took SS and Medicare cuts off the table. Let’s see if we can make him fear us more than he fears losing the campaign contributions of Wall Street.
Well said. The Ryan Romney positions just give the Great Compromiser more room to push to the right. But then letting the Republicans purge the poor and emerging poor from the voter ranks assures them all there will be little or no limits placed on their powers to prey on the poor and vulnerable.
Does the PTB actually orchestrate the rightward move of both parties so that the voters have no real choice, or is this just happening “by itself” as a result of the influence of big money? Don’t know the answer.
He doesn’t fear us at all. Nor does he fear losing. He’ll be well paid after his return to private life (Clinton redux). His job is to gut SS and Medicare.
Either way, that’s going to happen, and there isn’t a goddamn thing we can do about it.
This is a shore up your base choice. After all this time Romney still has not locked up the base. Pathetic but not surprising.
At least when the really scandalous stuff about Mitt comes out and they have to dump him they will have their Obama, their JFK all teed up and ready to take over.
Precisely.
We are witnessing sublime manipulation of the body politic.
This is, “Be completely AFRAID!!! kubuki.
Time to run screaming (or squawking) into the arms of Obama.
Those who still “believe” that the legacy, the money, parties are in opposition, are being fooled, in their vast numbers, once again.
The breathless chant will now be, “We have no choice but to vote for the guy with the knife ready to stab us in the back … look! the other guy has an atom bomb! Let us tussle with the drone guy, he’ll only kill us a little!! Eek! Eek!”
Meanwhile, Very Serious People will intone, “Well yes, these entitlement programs can no longer be afforded … and we will all have to sacrifice, the wealthy will have to give up the rule of law, and everyone will have to give up everything, fair being fair, you know? And that is what it is all about, being fair, since we are all equally to blame for the sad and dangerous state of affairs which afflicts this great nation of opportunity and freedom. Remember, we are hated for our fairness and manifold freedoms … but (sigh) that is the price of greatness, of being number one …”
Thank you, DDay, for not leading the shrieking and selling head-in-the-sand homilies.
Better the truth than more damnable lies.
When might it dawn that having only lousy “choices” is proof that the masters manipulate the fear and distrust of the people, not for some idiotic notion of a democracy which the masters loathe and detest, but for their own despicable ends?
It is simply too bad that “the people” are afraid to make THEIR OWN choices, being unwilling to dare to consider other options, but then, that is the whole damned idea … isn’t it?
Convince the people that there ARE no choices … and then let the people prove it to themselves and to their descendants.
For the “choices” we “make” now, will have dire and long lasting consequence.
It were wiser, if requiring far more courage and conscience, to vote for conscience and courage, than to acquiesce to being fooled by deliberately manipulated fear.
One does not imagine that wisdom will prevail … as Mencken pointed out … the political class has NEVER been disappointed by overestimating the public’s gullibility (or whatever “it” is …).
DW
Excellent analysis, David, but what do you mean by this vague statement?
Details?
Yet another “not a dimes worth of difference” analysis.
A few on the far left still buy into it, but nobody else.
Excuse, me, that should be, Thank you, David Swanson!!!”
DW
My only decision in the voting booth will be whether to write in Bradley Manning or Julian Assange.
ptb and money are the same thing. Their only restraint is the vote and the GOP is taking care of that by disenfranchising the prey.
Let’s not forget the clip of Clinton telling Ryan to keep up the good work when he first presented his plans for distributing wealth to the already rich
I am certain that you HOPE so, oldgold.
However, just last evening, a long-time Democratic voter, who said he could not, in good conscience and in consideration of the threat which Obama poses to this voter, to his children, and to his grandchildren and was prepared to not vote at all, was very much interested to hear that Jill Stein was arrested for sitting-in at a bank to protest foreclosures.
This voter knew precisely what that meant having actually engaged, himself, in that tactic many moons ago in another struggle for justice.
Go on with your hoping, oldgold, the times they are a-changin’ … and so are the people.
DW
Randall Kohn–
Spot on.
I agree with PW that we still should make demands, but I am not naive enough to believe that it will actually make a difference.
Blue
The greediest and least patriotic among the wealthy, to whose interests Obama and the Republican caucus are slavishly devoted, want to get rid of social security and medicare for two reasons:
1. The wealthy don’t need those programs.
2. Getting rid of them would reduce taxes on the wealthy, especially now that medicare taxes are no longer capped at a level of income.
caleb36–
It’s not occurring in a vacuum. Nor is it an accident, “happening by itself.”
Blue
HOPE-fully someone comes up some kick ass ideas, cuz, I sure as hell don’t have any. I’ll be voting … “medicareforall” or … “itsy bitsy spider”
my ONLY promises this election:
not a penny or a dime, not a second of time, not a vote for ANY of these diaper pissing pathetics, or their yuppie scum string pullers.
we had a primary in WA. and it looks like about 37% of registered bothered voting. Susan DelBene, the corp-0-RAT favorite of the Democratic establishment beat Darcy Burner 26 to 14 … or whatever. The corp-0-rat$ are feeling smug that their rich girl is gonna buy herself a congressional seat, since it shows that their phake as moderates are more electable than liberals … ha ha ha.
so, if appx. 80% are registered to vote, and 37% show up to vote, well, 1 – (.80 * .37) = appx 70% couldn’t be bothered to participate in the charade. while it sucks that a decent candidate like Darcy can’t break through the soundtrack of ‘moderate GOOD liberal BAD’ – part of the lyrics are – decent policy is labeled ‘liberal’ and sell out policy is labeled ‘moderate’ —
I HOPE the sell outs mislabled as ‘moderate’ are smug with their dinky slice of 30% who showed up. as long as The Biggest product they can peddle is ennui and apathy and indifference, they’ll merit their 6 figure a year sinecures.
rmm
Assange is not an American citizen and Manning is not at least 35 years old. If you are going to vote, your vote might get some notice if you vote for a third party candidate. Otherwise, who is going to see it and is that worth your trouble?
My reaction to the news was that the selection of Ryan ensures Obama’s victory. The Ryan budget now becomes the Romney-Ryan budget and we will hear a lot about three thing over the next 12 weeks: Romney’s income taxes, Bain Capital, and Ryan’s plan to destroy medicare.
Obama can now do what he did in 2008: ride traditional Democratic themes to victory. Following that, he will do what he’s done for the last 42 months: abandon those themes and promote the Republican agenda.
In NY, where I live, there is zero chance that Mitt will win and zero chance that an extra vote for a Green or whoever will be noticed by the powers that be.
By the way, the problem is not just with the man at the top of the ticket. Look around at the issues pages on the web sites of former progressive favorites, like Jon Tester. Nada about protecting Social Security and Medicare. We’re doomed.
What put social security and medicare in the cross-hairs of the Real Owners of the Country was lifting the cap on medicare taxes and proposing that we lift the cap on SS taxes. For an explanation for why, see my post #17.
Slight correction. Tester’s site does say
“Jon has always supported Social Security and Medicare, and he opposes all plans to privatize them.”
but that’s compared to 6 paragraphs about cutting taxes.
First demand: No lame duck session.
Second demand: Hands off my Social Security. You are not going to embezzle $3 trillion of federal bonds held by the Social Security Trust Fund
Third demand: Tell where you stand relative to Pete Peterson attempt to steal our Social Security funds for Black Rock.
Fourth demand: Medicare for All
Fifth demand: No more kabuki.
Let’s make this election a referendum on the lame duck session, putting Democrats on the defensive.
This is going to be a social media struggle because the corporate media won’t touch it.
OK. I don’t expect major changes from this tactic, but is inexpensive, risk-free, and can shape the conversation if it goes viral.
Just these five points, over and over, until they go viral.
Anyone got any better ideas except the old instructions for what to do in case of a nuclear war.
grandma eating catfood
New York. Good delis and good pizza. Enjoy one or the other on election day and you will feel better about life. :)
Have you checked the price of Friskies lately? You are being optimistic.
Yes, to deal with the “deficit” (which doesn’t actually exist), the “Democrats” are willing to make people suffer by losing the basic necessities of life, in some cases life itself. Whereas the Republicans are asked to pay a slightly larger portion of their wealth. What a wonderfully equivalent program of shared sacrifice!
Yet, instead of rejecting this devil’s bargain, The Obama is upset that the Republicans aren’t making their token tax contributions while he is gleefully killing old people for the sake of his “legacy”. Oh, no, my bad…he’s not upset that “increased taxes” and “suffer and die, common rabble!” are being considered equivalent, and he’s not upset that the Republicans aren’t working equally towards the oh-so-important goal of making interest payments on “debt” owed to private bankers to accumulate mineral reserves (which are completely necessary, lest Americans suddenly start demanding payment in “specie” instead of dollars…remember, just because something hasn’t been legal since 1907 and no living human has ever done it, that doesn’t mean it isn’t a real danger, nuh-uh!), no, no.
What The Obama is creased about is that he isn’t getting enough blowjobs from the Money Media for his
murders of American citizensdevotion to fiscal responsibility. Praise him more, Serious People! The Obama demands RESPECT!Respect *this*, motherfucker.
Paul Ryan’s Medicare vouchers. If the Democrats are at all competent, they can ensure Obama’s re-election on that issue alone.
good idea.
good idea to keep it simple, keep
hammering away at these key points.
Good thing Obama and his Dims have our backs, right?
Clap louder!
Your second paragraph is a perfect summation of the results of LOTE voting. Rosanne Barr and Cindy Sheehan are running on the Peace and Freedom Party ticket. Lots of 3rd party choices, IMHO. Pick one.
Maybe Vice President Ryan will hand out catfood vouchers to seniors.
shootthatarrow:
You say: “Barack Obama will do and can do more easily what no R POTUS could or can do without the UniParty managers having to crank up the Kabuki routines to surreal levels to make the Ds look like they are not pulling the same ropes as the Rs. Much easier for the UniParty to just put BHO back in for four more years while the Rs get to sandbag and go Full Kooky and suffer little for doing so.”
You nailed it.
However, do not forget that the Paul Ryan’s of the Republican Party won in 2010 scaring folks about the massive Medicare cuts of approx $800 billion dollars. Paul Ryan was one of the architects of this strategy. His type of demogoguery may still have a great deal of appeal in the rust belt, among conservative Dems. Remember, Obama spent a full year trying to slash the social safety net (Grand Bargain), and the only thing that stood in his way was a Republican House Leader Boehner. By the end of that fiasco, his polls were dismal, so he pivoted into the pseudo-populist reelection campaign rhetoric that we’ve heard since late last summer. Pretty transparent. Don’t believe that it will fool too many people (at least not those who are paying attention).
oldgold–If you’ll take time to read my comments, you’ll see scores of videos and articles referring to the Obama administration (Obama himself, Nancy Pelosi–just posted that one a couple of days ago here, etc.) endorsing Bowles-Simpson, Gang of Six proposal (which is B-S in legislative language), etc. I will again put link to B-S. Just wish that people would take time to read it.
Bowles-Simpson IS what Romney and Ryan repeatedly endorse (just like Obama and the Dem Party establishment). If there is “proof” more convincing than videos, please tell me what that is. Please.
(All this talk about the Bush tax cuts, and raising the marginal tax rate back to 39.6 is just EMPTY CAMPAIGN RHETORIC. I will try to find the time to AGAIN post the video of the kickoff of the “Campaign to Fix the Debt.” At the conclusion, Judd Gregg tells reporters that the “Bush tax cuts” are a moot point. Both parties already agree on tax reform, and guess what? That tax reform (simplifying the tax code to broaden the tax base–translatlion: tax the poor and middle classes while lowering the tax brackets on the wealthy) IS ONE OF THE SIX PILLARS OF BOWLES-SIMPSON!!!
Blue
Here’s link to the Campaign to Fix the Debt. At the end of this press conference, Judd Gregg tells reporters that the talk of extending the Bush tax cuts are a “moot point,” since everyone agrees that we need tax reform (which they will do in the lame duck session).
Here’s the link:
http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/307098-1
The Moment of Truth (PDF), B-S, December 2010:
http://www.fiscalcommission.gov/sites/fiscalcommission.gov/files/documents/TheMomentofTruth12_1_2010.pdf
(Please excuse typos–in a push.)
Which of the four socialist candidates on the ballot (and the fifth write-in) do we vote for?
Do you not see the strategic problem there with regards to elections?
tammanytiger–
Ever heard of the Rivlin-Ryan Medicare Reform Plan? Here’s a link to the CBO analysis of their plan.
http://cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/ftpdocs/119xx/doc11966/11-17-rivlin-ryan_preliminary_analysis.pdf
Dems sold out on that one, too. Not to mention that the faux liberal Dem Ron Wyden has signed into Ryan’s plan, for Pete’s sake.
The Democratic Party repeatedly takes the same (or near identical stances), then duck and cover, as though they didn’t.
All this is “hidden in plain sight,” however, for anyone who wants to know the truth.
Blue
Well,Obama already won the 2012 election,it’s only a matter of time,Romney made it easy with this no one Ryan.
And make no mistake, Obama will cut Medicare and SS in his 2nd term,you’ll see.
Unless there is divine intervention or intervention by a superior alien civilization the cuts are coming no matter who wins.
allan–
Sorry, but Jon Tester has never been a true progressive. (Which is part of the problem. It appears that there is not even agreement anymore on “what” a progressive is?) That is not to say that he doesn’t have maybe “a” progressive stance, but have we lowered the bar so far, that that’s all that we require?
Heaven help us all, if pseudo populist characters like Ed Schultz (media) and politicians Tester, Wyden, B Schweitzer (Montana), Patty Murray, etc., pass as progressives. These are NEW DEMOCRATS, or corporatist Dems, at best. And some people (not necessarily you, allan) wonder how the Dem Party has kept drifting to the “right.”
Hold on to your seats for this one!! I can remember listening to Air America Radio when Claire McCaskill and Amy Klobuchar were trotted out as “liberals.”
I’ve about decided that members of the Dem Party must be among the most feeble-minded folks anywhere. And, yes, at one time, I would have included myself, in that category. But, for goodness sake, at some point, one must start reading and discerning the truth, instead of absorbing and regurgitating “talking points,” or all will be lost.
Blue
Do you think the election can be close enough so we can get Obama and the Democrats to take Social Security cuts off the table?
I know, a promise from these guys is just about worthless, still it might be useful to have Obama promise during a debate not to cut Social Security- in particular if the Democrats get control of the house or remain in charge of the Senate.
So then, we must rule out the possibility that “the people” will find the courage and the voice to say “ENOUGH!”?
We must rule out the possibility of “the people” fully understanding and INSISTING upon meaningful change from endless war and endless class war?
At some point, the feeble excuse, “we have no choice, but … to vote for the lesser evil”, will be seen and despised as complacent rationalization by the children and grandchildren of a “public” too lazy and too filled with “exceptional” hubris to seek the truth and then to find the courage to live that truth …
Stupidity can be blamed for just so much, beyond that only abject cowardice lurks …
If the down-trodden cannot bestir themselves sufficiently to struggle against their bondage, Bluetoe2, then it is not pity which they deserve … but something else.
And, as Mencken once said, “they” are going to get it “… good and hard.”
DW
Good retrieve from the memory hole. It is interesting that most of the major concerns about this are not dealt with through analysis but excluded from the analysis in the caveats and assumptions section.
Rivlin was a deficit concern-troller in the Clinton administration. He lowered the deficit, and you see what it got us. A $6 trillion explosion in debt in eight years. Now the debt is over triple what Al Gore promised to cut in half in ten years. With Social Security in a “lockbox”.
A lot of the so-called progressives like Tester and Kissell excited the blogosphere because they were populists and running to replace Republicans. At a point (2006) when we thought that a Democratic majority in the House and Senate actually would change the public conversation. We now know that conservatives and billionaires are going to spend as much as $3 billion this year in campaign and PAC contributions alone just to make sure the conversation doesn’t change. That’s the smell of fear. Of what would happen if people actually knew what was going on.
You know, that may have been a bit strong (even though I included myself in the description, at one time). So, I apologize if my words hurt anyone’s feelings.
I have come to this forum, prepared, willing and able to provide link after link of articles, studies, white papers, and videos, to make various policy points.
Yet, day after day, I observe that scores of folks seem not to realize what the Obama administration’s policies are.
What am I missing? When proof is no longer meaningful or pertinent, where does one go?
I truly would like any serious and well-intended suggestions, please.
Blue
Does Occupy qualify as a “superior alien civilization”? ;)
Vote Dr Jill Stein, we already know both parties only serve the 0.01 percenters and corporate-hood.
As always, TD, you and Blue Onyx are making superb, perceptive, and easily understood comments.
My great appreciation to both of you.
DW
I disagree with those who say that the choice of Ryan has made the election a cakewalk. Ryan talks smooth deficit-hawk gobbledegook that makes establishment talking heads glaze over, nod, and claim he’s smart and serious.
Republican strategists and writers will defuse the Medicare issue by getting out in front and claiming Obama is the real enemy of Medicare. Doesn’t matter what the evidence is; at that point it becomes claim/counterclaim, allowing the media to abdicate genuine reportorial responsibility. Problem solved.
(And yes, Obama is an enemy of Medicare, but I’m not going there right now.)
And one should not underestimate Joe Biden’s capacity to fuck up a debate with this guy. I’m not holding my breath for any Godzilla vs Bambi moments like we saw with Bentsen vs Quayle.
polls say both dems and gop supporters do not favor cuts to SS or Medicare..MR and PR’s base is Wallst/right wing clowns. I am with you and think this is a great opportunity to force Obama’s hand on his view of cuts to SS and Medicare I think what BO/Dems will try to spin this as Rysn is an extremtist and BO is maintstream w/o giving any details. We should all we can to force him to give an answer and I think Dems/GOP and Indie voters would pull together on this!
sorry fot not proof reading my comments Multi tasking :)
To make Obama fear losing his base, his base would have to threaten not to vote for him. More likely is the prospect that Obama’s base will change its opinion to agree with Obama. This has already happened in foreign policy.
http://www.salon.com/2012/02/08/repulsive_progressive_hypocrisy/
To some significant extent Obama has succeeded in doing what Dukakis, Clinton, Gore, and Kerry failed to do — turn “liberals” into neoliberals.
Go (+6, +6)! Down with (+7, +6.5)!!
http://www.politicalcompass.org/uselection2012
The people are in fact becoming good neoliberals like their pal Barack — what you’re describing is the joyous occasion of someone not changing.
The only way that true progressives (or any other group, for that matter, will get the attention of the D party is to take part in electoral activities that result in the loss of a Democratic seat
and be able to take credit for it .
The strong effect of the Tea Party on the Republicans dates precisely to the 2009 special election in NY-23, which resulted in the GOP losing a seat that it had held for decades. The TP didn’t give a shit – they were happy to take credit for the loss, and, as a matter of long term electoral strategy,
they were right.
Just as the selection of Dan Quayle assured Dukakis’ victory in ’88?
Well said, DW; my only quibble is that many in this nation really *are* unaware, as in: they haven’t connected the dots yet about the march of neoliberalism, both domestically, globally, and at the core of our foreign policy and Empire; that ‘free trade’ only helps multinationals; that Democracy is not the same thing as ‘free-market capitalism’, and so on.
While every revenue stream is being hijacked to the .001 or whatever %, it’s hard for me to understand that the social safety net cuts alleged by the *two* parties is The One that receives all the juice. It’s just another puzzle piece in the entire social contract, civil rights, personal privacy, education, are being hijacked. That our goddam rights to free speech are being mooted: no: found illegal…by this administration…says we must face the necessity of extra-electoral methods to stop it.
And by the way, David, you might want to come say Many Happy Returns to our dear juliania; another feisty and inconvenient woman. ;o)
And…September looks like a good month to challenge the Machine.
Wouldn’t it be a kick to see Stein actually win some electoral votes?
Maybe Obama can impress us all with his talk initiative before the post-election about-face.
Nero is once again fiddling while Rome burns.
Difficult as it may be to take an objective look at our elective choices, it seems like the rest of the world must be shaking their heads in disbelief. We look like a country largely populated by idiots.
If Obama lets this become a contest between Bowles and Ryan on who can cut the most, he likely will lose. So if we want to save the safety net, it is time to force this issue on Obama.
I really really doubt that. To me it is something like magical thinking. Nice lady but….
Magic does, occasionally, occur though. Just not very often.
America is in dire, desperate need of a second party.
Often, indeed very often, I agree fully with your perspectives, cassiodorus, but what I saw in the reaction of a genuine human being, last evening, compels me to disagree with you and, thus, seek to “set” you aright. What I saw was someone realizing that there are other choices, that he need not abstain from the often meaningless “process” of voting but might, instead, seek to vote for what his conscience and humanity honestly embrace, that his voice be not silenced in manipulated, intended despair.
To realize that life and “choice” is NOT meaningless, despite the culturally pounded-in notions of “winning” and that most of us are “losers” and “effing retards” is not to be unchanged and unchanging, it is to come to realize that there ARE options and reasons, beyond one’s self, for choosing to live with both meaning and purpose.
It may be but a “baby step” which my friend has taken. However, EVERY journey of worth must begin with that first, often tenuous and difficult, step …
As I am very certain that your own experience and journey in understanding and courage will allow you to agree.
Namaste
DW
A third party a few months out from the election is truly magical thinking.
Start one up right after this election ?
You got a single seat you figure it is ok to lose just now?
Thank you, DW.
I appreciate the many (and always) incisive and astute observations that you make, on a daily basis. So, thank you for your contribution, to this discussion.
Blue
It is with great pleasure, indeed, that I wish dear juliannia, “Happy Launch Day!!!”. And, may many be her journeys around ole Sol, for her stellar contributions to humanity’s understanding are profound and, selfishly speaking, always a genuine pleasure and privilege to encounter and behold.
I hope she may see this and that you might pass it along, until I get “over there” to say something more fitting.
I also note, and fully appreciated, wendy, your most-excellent comment at Yves Smith’s place the other day.
;~DW
Of course, it’s now too late for the 2012 election,
but if I had a time machine and could go back a year or so:
Just about anybody in the current or recent House leadership, like
Steny Ho’, Louise Slaughter (who is in a tough fight and would definitely lose if even a small amount of her support were carved off from the left), and Blue Dogs like Jim Cooper or Mike Ross.
Well OK. I’m sure you saw something which I didn’t. My experience is one of talking to liberal Democrats whose “principles” (as they have proclaimed them pre-2009) have been revealed in full glory when defending Barack Obama’s right-wing talking points. The “deficit reduction” meme is a prime example.
Good question!
Do the PTB actually orchestrate the rightward move of both parties so that the voters have no real choice, or is this just happening “by itself” as a result of the influence of big money? Don’t know the answer.
Do you think the timing of the financial meltdown of their casino “just happened by itself?” That the way to tap into the national debt bank in order to continue their game “just happened?” The stock market spiraling drop saved by O’s stimulus (offering a new buy-in opportunity) “just happened?” Obama’s PHarMA capitulation of single payer “just happened?”
IMO the greatest heist in mankind’s history was well planned, ie, before the newly arraigned Democratic ‘fall guy’ administration had their feet on the ground. Having pulled the heist off without consequence to their pockets, (except the EU at this point is still on their own pity party playing field) the shift of the American political equilibrium’s center to the ‘austerity’ right, has preserved the life supporter (our economy) of the FED (the house) to assume the losses while the financier players keep the winnings.
We are being played. We’re watching the continuation of the same old game, (most of the old toxic asset poker chips are stacked in a corner) while they look for the next asset class to inflate for next influx of fresh chips.
The blue dog dem Obama is fine with them, he’ll win. Romney/Ryan just cemented the decision.
Thanks, TD (about the “retrieve.”) It’s not hard for me to remember things about (Dr.) Alice Rivlin. I had a fairly long conversation with her (close to 4 minutes, I believe) on Washington Journal, C-Span last Spring (2011).
I definitely “hit on a few sore spots with her,” (BTW, I was very respectful, not confrontational, but direct)–she began to “gulp down water” as I laid out my problems with Bowles-Simpson’s cuts to Social Security, the only part of the entire 45-minute segment, that she did so.). LOL!
Blue
Well there had to be a meltdown some time. Ponzi schemes aren’t meant to last forever!
I do not disagree with the thrust of this comment.
My friend, cassiodorus, has been disenchanted for more than a while, and welcomed the possibility of making a “statement” with a vote that is neither meaningless or futile, but the beginning of something that will build and strengthen over the coming years of privation and pain.
The “magic” will become manifest … as inevitable and unstoppable.
And the willingness of however many may, now, dare will encourage those who, as yet, do not dare think beyond the fright which has manipulated this nation especially since Bush v. Gore … and 911 both of which ushered in full-blown tyranny and undeniable treason.
DW
bluedot12–
You are certainly entitled to believe “I really really doubt that. To me it is something like magical thinking. Nice lady but….”
But, are you not aware that it is just this kind of thinking that has foiled attempts to form a “viable” third party in this country?
And are you serious when you suggest: “A third party a few months out from the election is truly magical thinking.” and “Start one up right after this election ?”
In the first place, there are numerous third parties already formed.
And secondly, I have observed, especially on the news side of FDL, that you seem to be distressed over the evisceration of the social safety net (and rightfully so, IMHO).
Why on earth would you want to wait until AFTER the election, to attempt to forestall the election of a corporatist tool (O or R), who according to your own words (in other posts that you’ve written) will likely slash social safety net programs?
Could this be a case of “learned helplessness?” Just asking. (And, listen, I have no bone to pick with you, okay. I agree with much of what you write. But I have to ask, ’cause I sincerely fail to see the logic in your thinking process).
Blue
It wasn’t that hard. It’s the Scoop Jackson wing of the party come back to life.
Yeah, the curtain was drawn back for a moment.
We saw it. We saw the truth of the “two” parties.
Winning electoral votes is the only way that third parties ever affected the conversation. Compare Wallace’s 1968 third party run and the Nixon moves to co-opt the voters who were leaving the Democratic Party in the South. Even with Nixon’s Southern Strategy, Wallace still took Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia. Which the Republicans picked up in 1972 with ease, also bringing Jesse Helms into the Senate.
Yes, it would be a kick. Wins in four states–two blue and two red — could set the conversation on end. But in what state do you see that happening? Wallace had a state base as Governor of Alabama. Where do the Greens have elected officials already in office?
Even without an officeholder, it might be possible to win some of the smaller states. Hawaii, Delaware, and DC are automatically out. That leaves Wyoming, North Dakota, Alaska, South Dakota, Montana, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, Maine, Idaho, Nebraska, and West Virginia among the 15 smallest states. In which one of these are Greens strong enough to win?
My sense is that the Green Party always rushes in a the last minute with a spoiler strategy that is too little-too late. And if anything, results in a more rightward move in public sentiment. That ain’t the way you win policy.
The frogs have been in the pot far too long. Personally I’m voting for Stein. Far too many Americans have become accustomed to their manacles and fear being free of them. I see little evidence to the contrary. including the so called “Occupy” movement.
There are some big differences. Bush was running as the successor of a popular incumbent. Romney is running against an incumbent who is leading him in the polls.
Romney is trailing because of the perception that he is a rich guy who got that way by gaming the system and hurting working people. Ryan is the guy who will worsen that perception because he is the guy that wants to kill medicare and social security. Ryan’s history is a bigger deficit than Quayle’s inexperience.
Well they’ve certainly got the initiative now.
The idea that the Green Party could catalyze a rightwing turn in popular sentiment appears to me to be quite laughable, something along the lines of the “blame Nader” mythology pushed by some on this board. When most of those who identify as “liberal Democrats” approve of Obama’s incursions on civil rights and his foreign policy, there’s an obvious, clearly identifiable agent responsible for rightwing turn in popular sentiment.
Rather, it would take a great awakening toward “Left” sentiment this year even to put the Green Party on the map. Something along the lines of “we’d prefer survival to the slow mass suicide we’re supporting now” would have to occur, at which point people would also begin to notice that the Green Party is too ambivalent about its relation to capitalism. There needs to be some sort of transition out of the capitalist system, and as far as I can tell the Greens do not recognize that yet.
But Romney’s fundamental appeal (for that minority who votes for Romney because he’s Romney, and not because he’s not Obama) is also Ryan’s. They’re both guys who have been gaming the system, and their pitch is that “you should like us for that.” In short, nobody is going to care.
Bluetoe2–
Noticed that you told DW that you’d be voting for Stein. Maybe you should disregard my comment #76, addressed to you. I read (or misread) your previous comments to mean that any consideration of a third party candidate (in this election cycle) was unacceptable, in your opinion.
My bad. I apologize.
Blue
cassiodorus–
x2
Blue
x infinity
Lather, rinse, repeat
I live in Bellingham. It was disgusting watching this primary for the 1st Congressional District. Susan DelBene, the establishment Democrat candidate precisely because she is the corporatist, that is she worked for the biggest corporation in the state before she transferred to politics, had loads of money. How did she spend this money she got from the corporations? By tricking the base into thinking she’s a progressive, filling up the airwaves with images of people who look like the typical western Washington leftie, an aging hippie, all insisting she’s one of us. But like those other corporatists, Rick Larsen and Maria Cantwell, if she gets to D.C. she’ll be a reliable vote for the Neo-LIberal economy and the Empire.
But now in WA we only get two choices in November and the other is the right-wing nutcase Kostner who has a two word solution for everything: “cut taxes.” arrghhh.
will be interesting to watch Ryan from now on and see how Obama, the owners all play the “script.”
such a “wonderful” life. lol. America in Weimar Germany times
Those who believe in judging by verifiable actions buy it. Those who are going by their gut and believe in emotions only do not.
For verification see:
Civil Rights – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/09/civil-rights-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Economy – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/10/economy-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Economic Graphs – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/03/02/economic-graphs
Education – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/01/14/education-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Environment – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/08/environment-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Health Care – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/04/03/health-care-under-democraticrepublican-uniparty
Transparency – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/02/27/transparency-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Unions – http://newprogs.org/blog/2012/02/05/unions-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
War – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/11/wars-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
Whistleblowers – http://newprogs.org/blog/2011/11/09/whistleblowers-under-democraticrepublican-uni-party
The selection of Ryan will move the Republicans even further to the right and Obama will move to the right as well. It’s really a win win for the plutocracy.
I agree with you although that might not have been the way you read what I wrote.
But I don’t see Obama as the agent of this sentiment; he’s a reflection of where the center of public sentiment is. And that public sentiment is shaped by billions of dollars of saturation radio and TV propaganda and a campaign of peer pressure organized through conservative religious groups. And million of gullible people who believe as gospel the chain emails their friends, relatives, co-workers, and neigbors send them. And the spammed Facebook posts from these same people.
Obama has chosen to play against the “socialist” and “muslim” stereotypes by amping up his neoliberal and Christian creds. Had he plowed on through with a progressive program (what he wants is immaterial: he’s a politician) it would have been risky politically to party unity and to his personal security. So it’s the Congress that Obama seems to use to judge where the political center is–validated by the movements of Congressional sentiment that result from one of his trips pushing the agenda of the moment.
I suspect that you are right about the Green Party chances this year, even if everyone responded to diary comments and voted for Stein. The progressive base is concentrated in certain locations because for 40 years progressives have voluntarily self-segregated from conservative areas. And conservatives, for the most part, have self-segregated from progressive areas. And the environmental “green movement” (lower-case G) money seems to have been slotted into “green capitalism”.
Two thoughts:
1) I find it hard to believe that media saturation turned the massive (if ineffectual) antiwar protests of 2003 into the acquiescence to Obama militarism that we see today. I find it easier to believe that the Democratic Party rank-and-file has gotten swept up in Obama tribalism and that Left criticism of Obama provokes support for Obama policy regardless of what sort of policy it is.
2) My recent post on capitalist environmentalism: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/07/31/1114581/-The-Allure-of-Selling-Out — the problem is that the authentic environmentalists have no traction right now.
Please. All non-balloon-juice dot commers understand that there IS a dime’s worth of difference, whereas what is required is at least a trillion dollars’ worth of difference — or more.
(1) Which Congressional Districts did those massive (if ineffectual) antiwar protesters come from and what political weight did they have with the Democratic Party in those districts. It seems to me that Kerry in 2004 was seen by progressives as a foothold to get back into a fixed game.
The media that I am talking about is the saturation talk radio in rural areas of religious (which now tends to be political) radio and the growth in the same areas with invasion of the suburbs of Rush Limbaugh and his imitators. And the billion-dollar Fox News operation, which gets beamed into almost every fitness center and auto repair shop in America. Not to mention the cable narrowcasting of the Falwell and Pat Robertson cable channels (plural). That has affected the Democratic Party rank-and-file, sucking in union voters and some black churches. Left criticism of Obama is irrelevant because of small number of Democratic voters exposed to it.
The party rank-and-file always gets swept up in tribalism during campaign season. And then go to sleep until the next campaign. But the rank-and-file party members in a lot of districts are running against the tide of the sentiment reinforced by the conservative media in their communities. If you haven’t experienced the zombiefication of your friends by Fox News and Rush Limbaugh yet, it is hard to grasp what I am saying. Most rank-and-file Democrats responded to it by hunkering down–until the 2004 election. But their basic instinct is to still hunker down because they have not found a way to break the zombie enthrallment of otherwise intelligent and caring people. So mostly in elections, the get the votes out of anyone who says they support the Democratic candidate. And because local lawyers and business owners who are also Democrats are heavily involved in the vetting of candidates, all candidates come to the race having sold out.
(2) The progressive movement in general and the authentic environmentalists in particular have no traction because they’ve no good way to engage people in a serious conversation or get people other than the very young and very old involved. The middle demographic is loaded down with kids and work and don’t do meetings and actions anymore.
Nonetheless, the Occupy movement by networking actions and protests have brought some new life. There have been anti-fracking actions in Pennsylvania and protests against mountain-top removal in West Virginia, that the Occupy network has fed more participants into. And they are getting local support and creds from local folks affected by fracking or mountaintop removal.
Solid analysis, David. Truthful and highly recc’d.
Hey Blue Onyx#76.everything you said was correct ,but more importantly ,it should be a lesson for progs that Bluedot represents mainsream dems ,and they are not psychologically equipped to ever consider a third party .You might consider the class-averse nature of identity politics that comprises the rank and file .They have no use for OWS because 99% victimhood trespasses on their victim turf .Every dem media voice that griped about OWS was a privileged benefactor of identity politics .
Yes David ,it was an excellent post.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/February_15,_2003_anti-war_protest
Ah yes, highly recommended to the conscience and consideration of everyone at FDL.
Well done, David, thank you.
DW
How many electoral votes could you have delivered off those numbers?
Remember that Presidential elections must persuade north of 60 million voters, distributed across enough states to generate 270 electoral votes. In that Wikipedia article, I saw New York (29 electoral votes), California (55 votes), Colorado (9 votes), Washington (12 votes), Pennsylvania (20 votes), Illinois (20 votes), Florida (29 votes), and Puerto Rico (O votes). Even if you had the popular vote totals to carry those states, you would have only 174 electoral votes.
But in Chicago, you had a turnout of 10,000 in a city of 3 million. It is not likely that you could even carry those states with the national turnout.
Can you turn out 8.2 million progressives in California, 4.8 million in New York State, 3.2 million in Pennsylvania, 3.4 million in Illinois, 1.7 million in Washington, 1.2 million in Colorado, or 4.2 million in Florida? Those are rounding of Obama’s totals in those states.
If progressives can turn out those numbers, then where are they re: anti-war demonstrations, Occupy, or support for Jill Stein? My argument is that you have to have the numbers and know what they are before you can claim to be a base, command attention from one of the two parties, or build a third party. Too many progressives assume an America more progressive than it is.
This proves Obromney is one team!
This is a brilliant article. Here we have a so-called Democratic president who’s worried that he’s not getting enough credit for his willingness to cut Medicare and Social Security.
Zero.
The problem is that antiwar protests may once have been popular among progressives — but when it comes to voting for candidates, they’re mostly Democrat tribalists, and so when John Kerry pledged to win the war in Iraq they all opted to suck in their tongues and do nothing while Kerry spent a few months boasting of how he’d do what Bush did, only smarter.
Fast forward to 2008 and the world post-SOFA agreement in Iraq. The Iraq cause is gone, the tribalists are roped in.
Third parties?
Wake me up when you want to talk about workers taking over.
So who exactly is it who are starting to bail?
You seem somewhat obsessed with the immediate winning of elections.
The point of building a political structure now is, for the most part, educational. You want to create something for future leaders to join. When life in America starts to look like something out of a dystopian science-fiction novel (and it will), your future leaders will gain traction.
I briefly met Malik Rahim in 2002. It seemed at that time that he had a number of good ideas for inspiring radicalism in the impoverished Black populations of New Orleans, but no traction.
Now he’s got Common Ground.
http://www.commongroundrelief.org/
Sometimes disaster makes good things possible — check out Rebecca Solnit’s book “A Paradise Built In Hell”
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/06/20/1098931/-A-look-back-at-Solnit-s-Paradise-Built-In-Hell
Plan-b is the primary reason everyone I know is getting involved with third parties .I don’t know anyone who doesn’t accept two axioms : the two-party structure is based upon a system tapestried with fraud and cannot be reformed.Secondly ,economic collapse is on the near-horizon .As Milton Friedman said ,”"never let a crisis go to waste ,because this creates a great opportunity for those with good ideas laying around ” .As a strong Nader supporter and Green ,I have never heard anyone speak of winning ,only attaining spoiler leverage to influence change or create a new vision as the parties go into antiquity .
The two parties are destroying themselves , as evidenced by growth in independents and other defectors ,so it would be incorrect to believe in a 4-way race .a progressive movement could soar in populist appeal and be positioned for the global blowout .
It should also be noted that the millions of protesters against the Iraq war were mostly just good citizens trying to prevent a horrific intervention that was clearly not about WMD or national security .Most Americans were against this fraud until ,as always ,it started and many felt compelled to support the troops .Sure progressives were all over it ,but this one time when tens of millions showed up for all the right reasons .