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I am sorry. But, after the past decade of lies, distortions, obfuscations, and out and out deception surrounding 9/11 and every other damn issue under the sun, I don’t believe anything they say about anything anymore. (And, I know this shite ain’t new, but as the brazeness elevates due to our unquestioning acceptance of information that is tenuous at best, and out and out provable lies at worst, it gets more surreal by the day).
So, when I heard there was a unexpected press conference about national security and knowing that they never tell any truth about REAL issues that threaten our national security, my gut reaction?…
‘Don’t tell me, they got Bin Laden. What a way to kick off Obama in 2012 corporate campaign’!
I choked on my grapes when the NYT pre-released the story.
And, I don’t buy their official story. Let me get this straight. The most wanted enemy of the United States was killed in a firefight and the body was unceremoniously dumped into the sea before any independent source could verify its authenticity. All of the sudden, the US which wages war and routinely tortures brown people to justify their criminal operations against humanity overseas is vested in following proper burial protocol for the most wanted man in the world. They were content with a photo id.
Right.
And, why the hell wouldn’t they take him alive? Wouldn’t that go against national security issue interests, if Osama is masterminding covert plots to terrorize the entire globe? With the entire US military at our fingertips, and him in a known location and compound, we couldn’t manage to even TRY to take him alive? You would think that would be the orders, if national security was the true issue. Get him alive at all possible. And, given that there is an entire movement to bring about the truth of what really happened on 9/11, don’t you think they would want to at the VERY least produce a body to put any doubts to rest AND bring closure to the families and relatives of 9/11 victims?
Logic and consistency seem to always fray when we go near the subject of 9/11 and its supposed mastermind. The American people were content to just gulp up a ‘independent’ commissions report that was riddled with inconsistencies and holes the size of the grand canyon along with outright fallacies, so this must have seemed small theatre compared to the years long dodge, obfusication, and cover-up of truth to the true events of that day.
I d-o-n-o-t-b-e-l-i-e-v-e t-h-e-m
I don’t trust known liars. I don’t trust a government that launched a middle-east strategy based on a boogeyman and fabricated connections to a terrorist organization with a leader whom the US trained. I don’t believe it is all a coincidence that high level officials were warned to not fly that day, or that Norad didn’t scramble planes, and flight tapes were crushed and destroyed and thrown in garbage cans
And, I am sick of being called a ‘conspiracy theorist’ when the evidence contradicts their own claims and bolsters the case for logical scrutiny and a truly independent investigation. The killing of Osama Bin Laden has not been proven, and if we had him in our custody, that would have been very simple to do.
Why the hell didn’t we?
121 Comments
I do-not-believe-them either.
I don’t know all the stuff that went around about the NYC Trade Center’s attack, the actual 9-11. I barely remember the official story and I didn’t really pay attention to the conspiracy theorists on the subject.
I believe that 9-11 happened because of a breakdown in communication within our security apparatus. It was a failure within the GWB administration. That was the cover-up.
As you say, I don’t trust known liars, for example, WMD. Obama chose not to prosecute the GWB administration as known war criminals. It’s a slippery slope. I don’t think it’s a stretch he could choose to mastermind this bullshit.
I recommended your diary, but I don’t know if it worked. There was some message about “…Super Cache … broken.”
I have no idea what did or did not happen. But I am absolutely certain that the story the government is telling is a lie. That’s what they do.
oh
Right, ulterior motives.
Here’s the last two paragraphs from Glenn Greenwald on Osama bin Laden (via lawyers guns money blog.com)
“In sum, a murderous religious extremist was killed. The U.S. has erupted in a collective orgy of national pride and renewed faith in the efficacy and righteousness of military force. Other than that, the repercussions are likely to be far greater in terms of domestic politics — it’s going to be a huge boost to Obama’s re-election prospects and will be exploited for that end — than anything else.
UPDATE: Recall what happened in 2003 when Howard Dean interrupted the national celebratory ritual triggered by Saddam Hussein’s capture when he suggested that that event would likely not make us safer. He was demonized by political leaders in both parties, with Joe Lieberman finally equating him with Saddam by accusing Dean of being in a “spider hole of denial.” That will be the same demonizing reaction targeted at anyone who deviates from today’s ritualistic script.”
Yeah, lies. That’s about it. It’s not that OBL was or wasn’t somehow involved with a terrorist network. The big lie is that said network was an indepentent actor capable of pulling off 911 all on it’s own.
One thing that has me worried, over the past couple decades the lies have been growing at an exponential pace. What happens when the pile of lies starts to fall down of it’s own dead weight? How will our establishment respond?
debbierlus:
Well said; I too feel your frustration. Maybe this is the true face of who we are? Remember the lynch mobs in the south who had a picnic while hanging black people?
When I consider the amateurish cover stories they put forth after 911; why we had to have TARP; and now “killed Osama, but we can’t show you the body” , I fear even they must realize it is over. With the total capture and control of the corporate media the powers that be no longer see a need to sugar coat their crimes. Murder without a trial has become the norm. Most American may think, “that’s fine, they will never come after white, middle class christian me.
Our corporate leaders have no intentions of leaving the region which means the millions of people for generations to come will live under the boot of a “new and improved ” class of dictators.
Millions more little brown people and their children will probably be taken by our awesome tax payer funded killing machine.
I believe he was killed yesterday.
I’m still not voting for O. Third Party in 2012.
Excellent diary … I feel the exact same way.
I don’t believe them either. They got several wars out of using him as a symbol. It was clear that he could no longer be used this way to support the “war on terror.” The war on terror was losing steam, around the world, as people slowly learned that none of the wars were ever part of an anti-terror campaign. Anti-terror work would be more like police work than war.
I believe that the war on terror needed a victory like Trenton was for Washington. That is how the celebrations and media started framing the end of brand Bin Laden. The war on terror is supposedly vindicated.
We have a permanent corporate military machine that needs to be fed. If people think that the permanent occupation of Afghanistan will end, they should remember the promises of a peace dividend when the Soviet Union collapsed. Afghanistan was always about a pipeline and a trillion dollars of minerals that were given to corporations by God. That was why Afghanistan was invaded using brand Bin Laden. Afghanistan needs permanent bases and puppet warlords because a single dictator like Mubarak won’t work there.
I don’t buy the 911 lie.
Stay Strong Brothers and Sisters we are not alone, nor are we crazy!
I have some questions. What possible proof do you have that they faked Osama bin Laden’s death? Did it not occur to you that he refused to be taken alive and died the martyr’s death he always wanted?
And as for the wacko 9/11 conspiracy theories, this site blows them all out of the water.
http://www.debunking911.com
Maybe if you could show proof that stands up to scrutiny, your claims would not be dismissed so easily. Pretending to be an expert in structural engineering and selling DVDs does not a credible source make, and the guy selling them so he can make a fast buck off of wounded and gullible people is a sick bastard who should be in jail for ripping you all off.
I have avoided all news coverage for the reasons given in the diary – and David Dayen has some comments about the changing story as well. I did however, in all of my muting to try to select out weather reports, see a number of times a photo of folk clustered about what seemed to be a 1950′s tv gazing intently, and I could not escape the vision of a very small Obama in their midst looking like a frightened rabbit. All those folk intently watching a small screen, and I am wondering, are they spectators or are they manipulators? (‘Let’s tweak this bit..’no, look, that is in there, can’t have that…’)Of course, all we are quite deliberately left with is speculation.
I’ll put forward a conspiracy theory – how about supposing that Bin Laden wasn’t killed at all but spirited away to our 9/11 friends, his own family in Saudi Arabia? That’s as reasonable a theory as any at this point, borne out by Bush’s response to our tragedy, shutting down everything but getting those precious Bin Ladens safely on their way back home.
After all, this is the third Bush term.
When I say ‘avoided all news coverage’ – excepting here of course. Thank you, firedoglake.
Here’s a great resource for documentaries & videos (free) that may be of interest to some:
http://www.911docs.net/
If you’re really interested in the truth, I suggest you read this:
http://www.amazon.com/Debunking-11-Mechanics-Defenders-Conspiracy/dp/156656686X/ref=sr_1_6?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1304434384&sr=1-6
Or any other of Dr. David Ray Griffin’s books on the 9/11 problem.
Some of the things here might also be helpful to you:
http://www.markdotzler.com/Mark_Dotzler/split.html
debbierlus
I’m with you 100%.
Streaming lies 24/7. That’s all we get.
I will not watch or read another sentence of the
“Bin Laden, Part Two” screenplay.
A total news blackout is in order.
We live in such a corrupt country,
that a free press blackout is
imperative.
I will get my news from more
reliable sources.
Thanks debbierlus, this diary speaks for me too.
Good one. Again I say that many people that called w a liar about everything and dismissed condie as simply supporting w were very quick to accept this very flawed commission inquiry and hold it as sacred truth. The work of David Ray Griffin, especially 9/11 Contradictions is a good place to start because it is not about engineering, but simply a look at what went on that day and in the buildup. There are, as Griffin’s book shows many, many more problems than just the technical aspect.
I will have to take a look at these other links given here. I appreciate the fact that so many people recognize that we are not alone, but there is a major attempt to marginalize us.
This evening at 6:30, on WBAI radio, there is a program scheduled that will include the owner of the blog What Really Happened discussing from a skeptical point of view the whole reported event of obl’s death.
3rd Party! Me, too!
Sucks to be “Dr.” Griffin, because his book was completely discredited by the facts presented on the site I linked to.
There was no grand conspiracy to bring down the WTC towers. Bin Laden came from a family that got rich off of construction, he had education in civil engineering, access to billions in wealth, and CIA training from back in the 80′s when we were undermining the Soviets in Afghanistan. Yes, Virginia, Osama did have the organization and the knowledge to pull off 9/11.
http://www.debunking911.com/osama.htm
Read it and weep.
Okay think about the following:
1. When Saddam Hussein was captured, they didn’t just quickly “bury away his body at sea“, did they?
2. There is no “Sea” anywhere near Pakistan. Hmmm….
3. With over 70% of the Country now opposed to the endless Foreign Occupation of Afghanistan, even more against the Iraq War, and pressure mounting against the endless Pakistan and Libya operations from both Parties, what better way to prop-up brand new pro-War fervor than to announce that this 6-and-a-half-foot, 70-year-old man with a cane, and dialysis machine that nobody could find before (with a Trillion dollar Military budget?) is now “dead”. Whoopie! Mission Accomplished! Meanwhile we’re still wasting away Trillions of dollars overseas, the value of the dollar is shrinking, and we’re going Bankrupt. Some victory.
Sorry, I ain’t buying it.
I claim this is more manufactured CIA-Pentagon-WhiteHouse propaganda to boost up their unpopular expanded and obviously endless Warfare policies.
For if we were to actually receive honest news about Foreign Policy, it would then have to be said that Osama Bin Laden was actually a recruit and trained employee of the American CIA. How does it feel then to be attacked/killed by CIA operatives? Should they exist from our tax dollars in the first place? The anger would have properly been directed at the CIA itself, and not one man. We would have to also hear that Osama himself had stated that it was the U.S. violence, and its Middle-East Bombings, Military Installations, and U.S. sponsoring of repressive and murderous regimes in Saudi Arabia which was the motivation for retaliation against the United States.
It’s hard to imagine that Americans would not also want similar retaliation — if some other Country did to us what we’ve been doing to these poor third-world Middle East Nations for years and years and years.
Either way you look at it, The United States has systematically killed, slaughtered, mamed, burned, jailed, and tortured far, far more innocent people (numbering in the Millions) than any alleged “terrorist” ever has, ever will, or ever could even dream of.
The real terrorsts are still at large.
And until The United States is finally uprooted and drowned in the Atlantic Ocean, The King of Death and Terror…..will not have been “buried at sea”.
Thank you, you speak for me! I don’t believe them, either. They didn’t even try to take bin Laden alive, so obviously they didn’t want him alive. Otherwise, they would have made an effort, and if he had killed himself to evade capture, they would have had a dead bin Laden. Which is what they had, anyway, but with less criticism from those who object to murder. Assuming the corpse was actually that of bin Laden, which we have no way of knowing.
I am blown away by the idea that they would fly this corpse hundreds of miles to the closest ocean in order to dump it at sea out of RESPECT for Muslim custom. Muslim custom accepts burial at sea when someone has DIED at sea. This “respect” for Muslim custom, from the same gang that urinates on the Koran and defiles it in other creative ways in order to upset the prisoners in the gulag, is a fairy tale. I don’t buy it.
“What possible proof do you have that they faked Osama bin Laden’s death?”
El Duderino:
One might ask you the same question: what prroof do you have other than the official story Obama gave to the corporate media?
Where is your Corpus delicti?
I stopped subscribing to cable TV news after it spent 72 hours of nonstop coverage of Anna Nicole Smith’s death. Remember that? The coverage was the final straw for me. I feel great knowing I’m not spending $80 a month on cable TV to fund the nonstop “orgy” of bin Laden coverage today. It’s obscene. I’ve seen a little of it via MSNBC on the internet. Had to turn it off. I’m stunned my nation isn’t demanding proof of bin Laden’s death.
Maybe you should look at the collapse of Bldg. 7 again:
http://www.911docs.net/collapse_of_wtc7.php
You might also what to review again the 100+ eyewitnesses reporting bombs going off around them, that was strangely not even mentioned in the (reluctant) BushCo “investigation” that was under the complete control of Philip Zelikow.
Why do you so vehemently trust the Bush Administration on this important matter, when the whole world (and you) knows that they lied us into a WAR of aggression?
As I think about it, the dna results and the body dumped in the sea “out of respect for Muslim custom” reminds me of colin powell’s tire tracks that were obviously made by mobile biological labs in Iraq.
Meanwhile, back in the Homeland, block parties have become a national security threat.
Careful you don’t get your head bashed in while you’re flipping the burgers. The SWAT boys might think that spatula in your hand is a bomb.
Freedom of Tyranny. Shocking video riot police and the fancy gear going after innocent kids at their year end block party at Western Illinois.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufKv-5t0t4E&feature=player_embedded#at=185
I don’t have it handy, but I know that Philip Zelikow (in addition to writing a book with C. Rice) wrote a paper on how large populations react to catastrophic events before to joining BushCo.
I find it quite interesting and somewhat odd, that someone studying and writing about the psychological effects of catastrophic events on large populations, would soon end up as the Director of the 9/11 Commission.
Exactly!!!!
I made a new policy for myself; I dismiss official/unofficial government news UNTIL there is irrefutable evidence.
I therefore, have dismissed this as a propaganda stunt. There will never be evidence now (if there was any possibility of it anyways) since they dumped his body in the ocean, claiming they were observing Muslim burial practices, of all things.
If they had Osama why not take him to the Hague where we can find out how he pulled it all off? We could find out how he circumvented the biggest National Security system in the world, and how he located and used thermite. I would also like to find out many other things. We could have found out where all the “rumors” came from about his death, which seems to have occurred several times over the last 10 years.
If I were the Government and I wanted to put to rest all the “conspiracy theories” I would make it an exception (like they really give a darn about Muslim Practices and burial laws!!) to provide the body for extensive scrutiny and testing by international teams of independent as well as government agencies.
Since they have no qualms about lighting up peoples homes with drone bombing campaigns I find it very odd that they would think to worry about Muslim burial practices.
Its bull….
Another factor in this, is that on Sunday night I went into Yahoo news and watched for an hour while they censored comments, throwing out anyone that was questioning it too much. My browser kept refreshing itself without me hitting a key.
There is an interesting article on this, that is actually related because it sheds light on all those depressing comments like “God bless them for killing him”…”I’m proud of Obama”…and other goo like that..at the Guardian:
Revealed: US spy operation that manipulates social media
http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/2011/mar/17/us-spy-operation-social-networks
Check the last paragraph. Centcom “corrected” them on an issue but otherwise did not deny.
Dang! I was so hoping he’d be brought in for questioning, so he could explain how his people managed to put this dang thing onto the bottom of the fuselage of UAL Flight #175.
(I made this comment in the thread about the official story changing, but since the comments here can’t be edited and I can’t correct a link to it if I get it wrong, I’ll just include the comment again here. It’s relevant because there’s the notion of not believing government actors when they’re talking about something – but it’s essential to be able to understand what they *are* unknowingly revealing.)
…
For those who understand the value of knowing about projection – where we attribute to others behaviors and characteristics which we don’t yet see or can’t yet accept about ourselves – this line from Obama’s Deputy National Security Adviser John Brennan ought to be revealing:
“I think it really just speaks to just how false his narrative has been over the years.”
http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2011/05/administration_backs_off_tale_of_osama_bin_laden_using_wife_as_human_shield.php
For those want evidence of how projection is always active, and of the value of knowing to interpret it, listen to this 2008 radio ad from then-candidate Obama in which he talks about what he believes is the character of Hillary Clinton (but he’s really talking about himself):
“She’ll say anything. And change nothing.”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbKMMlhkgOs
Obama sums up his whole Presidency for us before he’s even elected – if we knew how to listen to him.
Brennan’s statement about “how false his narrative has been over the years” is particularly relevant given the temporal connection of the bin Laden event to the recent inquiry into Obama’s shadowy past – not that Obama isn’t American, but like the story of “George W. Bush, successful businessman and heroic military pilot” the mythic story of “Barack Obama” is a fabrication, and isn’t what he claimed it was.
Thank you for that link; very interesting and creepy. Like Israel, the U.S. is “trolling” comment sites to post lies.
The claim that this U.S. military propaganda effort is directed only outside the U.S. is not believable.
Agreed. I first heard about the “killing” on a tech news site of all places. My first though was who the heck is OBL? I mean some of us have moved on from all of that crap. But then as the day progressed every site i went to was all about this crap. Of course didnt W claim this as well. Which was then refuted. Ive actually heard that he had died years ago but his body was put on ice or something until it because politically opportune to “kill” him. Besides the fact that he was supposedly on dialysis and had no place to go. Plus Obama knew where he was for 6 months.
Really difficult to kill him there Obama you fraud! I was concerned actually this meant that Obama would get reelected however this wont change anything i dont think as people will come back to reality soon when gas keeps going up and up and the economy doesnt get any better.
The one odd thing is that some dem senators have apparently found their spines and have calles for the end to the afganistan occupation. Which wont happen. But its suprising.
Wow! Polarizing issue. I find myself of two minds… While I agree with you on some of what you say Debbierless, in at least as far as I’ve always been skeptical about the official story, largely because of the lack of evidence-that Osama, or KSM, Al Qeida, et al-were behind 9/11 on the other hand whatever has happened here with Osama on Sunday-really there are 3 possibilities, either he’s not really dead, he was dead already dead or he was in fact killed-I am pleased if it benefits Obama and it will hopefully for the long term. As far as voting for a third party that’s just a vote for the Republicans. You can see the presidency as half full or half empty, I think he’s achieved enough for it to be half full-for starters a national health care bill, a stimulus bill that has been reponsible for 20 straight months of economic growth and 24 months of growth in the manuacturing sector, a important arms control with the Russians and the end of DADT. This list is not exhaustive (he is now planning to ramp up immigration reform) and he has recently had some court victories in protecting and enhancing stem cell research.
I know a lot of people felt he ddn’t go far enough on healthcare but remember the most important thing is precedent and mandate-Democratic administrations since FDR had tried and failed to get a mandate for the government to do something for the uninsured Obama got it done. While I myself wanted more-a public opotion or at least a real fight for it-the precedent,that we now have a health care law is more important than the particlars of a frist draft.
In time it will be strenghtened if we get Obama another term. So look, whatever happened or didn’t happen on 9/11 or on Sunday-and look I’ve read David Ray Griffin-if Obama is going to ge credit for it I’m for it as his reelecion is in our benefit.
Having said that, however, does anyone know what Ray Griffin has said since the news on Osama on Sunday? He published a book in 2009 which was-vey aptly for this discussion-entitled “Osama Bin Laden: Dead or Alive”
I’m with you 100% debbierlus, with one very minor addition to your post. The word you chose, “utter,” is so loaded. The way this government dissiminates information is almost demonic. They’re students of Goebbels and have elevated his strategies through revolutions in communications, computing and networking in ways that make my skin crawl. Liars indeed – crafty, conniving, corporate MIC serving, fabricators of their “own reality.” Only the names and faces have changed, the methods and goals remain the same.
David Ray Griffin’s last book was “Cognitive Infiltration” in response to Cass Sunstein’s bone-chilling paper and proposals for dealing with people who buy the BushCo Story.
A short passage from that book is here (along with some artwork): http://www.markdotzler.com/Mark_Dotzler/split.html
Just after that book came out, he became ill and was in the hospital for quite awhile and is still recovering now.
….that was don’t buy…….of course
You answer mine first. The fact that you have not done it yet says alot. Remember, you are the one tossing out the accusation. It is up to you to prove your case.
It is impossible to prove a negative. The burden of proof falls on this who committed the act and have, or could have evidence. The burden of disproof does no lie with the onlooker.
Did you ever take a science or math course? If so then the quality of your eduction is very suspect. You do not appear to be capable of logic.
Wow. 100+ witnesses seeing bombs going off? Who are these people and why have they not come forward by now?
http://www.debunking911.com/pull.htm
Really, you are grasping. There are no witness who saw bombs go off because no bombs went off. I trust nothing Bush-Cheney say. What I do trust are the facts we have, and those facts do not conform to your claims. A friend of mine holds the opinion that it was simply much easier to let Osama’s people carry out their mission rather than go to all the trouble of planting explosives. The WTC collapsed because of the airplanes hitting them, which tore away much of the support structure and caused fires that weakened the remaining ones to the point that they could not hold the weight above them. That is why they collapsed. WTC7 fell because it was hit by debris from the collapsing towers. Go and take a civil engineering class. Please.
OK, thanks Public, if he’s not been well maybe he hasn’t commented on the latest. In his 2009 Bin Laden book he says whle it’s possible Bin Laden is alive, he was leaning towards dead and according to him there’s been no credble proof he was alive since Tora Bora, December 2001.
My reaction to: Osama Bin Laden killed.
What? Again!!?
Hussein was hanged and buried shortly after. It was an execution following a guilty verdict in a sham show trial concocted to give legitimacy to the Iraq invasion.
Glenn Greenwald is writing today that initial accounts of bin Laden’s death were falsified after all. He was probably unarmed and therefore executed.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2011/05/03/propaganda_bin_laden/index.html
This is probably why his body was disposed of so quickly. The military and the Obama government wanted to make it look like Osama died resisting capture, when in actuality he was executed. The fact that this manner of execution is in contrast to Obama’s stated preference of taking him alive to stand trial might be the reason for the lies in the first place. After all, Obama claims the power to execute anyone he wants without charge or trial. Me, I would have liked a trial, see the motherfucker boast about his crimes, describe how he did it, and then watch his execution. No torture, no prolonged isolation or other mistreatment, just the damn facts–which, by the way, include his confession to the crimes.
It’s like any other monster movie – the creature always has to come back to life.
Think Glenn Close in the bathtub in “Fatal Attraction.”
it’s disgusting to see people i respect
gulping down these facts.
can’t they even reserve judgement? We’re a dying culture, IMHO
That’s what the birthers said.
There are major connections between the Saudis, the Bushes, UBL, Afghanistan, Iraq and the near big prize Iran. There is oil in them dar hills. However, the real and true prize is China and Russia, because when Hillary Clinton says we don’t give up she means total domination of the world. Just look at a map and see the way we are encircling them slowly buy surely. A modern version of the Romans.
On topic, Chris Floyd really out does himself today.
Satire du jour.
Enjoy.
http://www.chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2124-what-if-bush-did-it-a-nation-celebrates-what-it-is-told.html#disqus_thread
Agree with your post and thanks.
I tend to believe that ObL is dead but where/why/when/how he died is up for grabs. I feel pretty certain that the reports about his ill health – requiring dialysis & regular med attention – is accurate and not exaggerated.
Like many, I heard that ObL died years ago of natural causes (and then possibly was “kept on ice” and/or they just said he was still alive somewhere). Benazir Bhutto claimed around 2007 that ObL had been killed “years ago”:
http://www.ibtimes.com/articles/140408/20110502/benazir-bhutto-osama-bin-laden-pakistan.htm
And then Bhutto was assassinated.
It’s all a web of lies, and given the vast great sucking lie of the WMD in Iraq – which has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt (but resulted in the outing of CIA agent Valerie Plame by KKKarl Rove) to be false – and an unending stream of lies about so many other issues… well, whyever should I *believe* this fable wholesale without question?? That would be, frankly, stupid.
I do think ObL is dead but the timing and circumstances are not as they are being reported at this time. There are rumors that the Saudi’s wanted to “kill” the ObL “story/myth” at this time bc of the unrest and instability currently in the ME. Frankly that makes some sense to me, so that could account for the timing.
The media’s lock-step (goose-step?) style of “reporting” on this event is also suspect. My local newspaper had this rather large, full-color insert today loaded with “info” about ObL. WHY? Whatever for? Plus the last 2 days featured GIGANTIC font headlines deliriously *trumpeting* the fabulous news of ObL death by shooting with no real attempt to bring him in for trial.
Citizens are *directed* by ham-fisted “nooz” anchors to “celebrate” this “great victory.” What is this? The Nazi fatherland? We are directed to believe the alleged execution of ObL represents some form of “justice.” Whether it happened recently or not, NO, this does NOT represent “justice.” It represents authoritarian revenge & vengence. It’s really disgusting.
I have no desire to *celebrate* the stone-cold shooting of ObL, if it even happpened. ObL should have been brought to trial, but that’s not going to happen. I don’t *celebrate* criminal actions with criminal intent wrought by criminals to force their will both citizens of the USA and other foreign countries.
Finally, if the purported killing of ObL did actually happen in Pakistan recently, NOW WHAT? Are we going to repeal the Patriot Act? Are we going to stop having TSA personnel send innocent citizens through Micheal Chertoff’s expensive and useless porno-rape machines that do no good? Are we now “done” with the so-called War on Terror? Have we ceased being at Code Red on the Terror Alert scale? Are we going to return to the Rule of Law?
No? Didn’t think so. So even IF ObL was killed recently, so effen what? This is yet another media *circus* that’s disgusting and has no real value other than to possibly give Obama boost for 2012.
Disgusting.
Glad you said national health care bill not national health care. The problem remains — a jingoistic outrageously expensive foreign policy, inadequate taxation of those who can afford to pay, and health, retirement, and other social quality of life insfrastructure threatened in a way that Bin Laden could never threaten it.
NO, we aren’t done with the GWOT.
Headlines around here all screamed,
Bin Laden dead, We Remain Target or something similar.
Definitely way more war, prolly another fity years per Gates,
and PNAC.
The statements being made by “officials and insiders” are alarming in their certainty of an attack.
The crazy Keystone Cops wouldn’t have a clue if a serious threat is out there because in their spook minds, everyone in the world including every man, woman, and child in America is a suspect. There’s no way a government in possession of collective psychosis is capable of discerning a real problem.
An inside job would be more likely. Obama is such a craven,
vengeful, sociopath, I am certain that he would do anything to win a second term. Nothing is beneath him.
descern the real from their paranoia, so
I haven’t believed most of what my government has told me since the Viet Nam war. I’ll never forget the earnest statesmen assuring me that if we didn’t win there, all the dominoes would fall. Well, I waited while my friends died, and we finally left without winning and guess what–the dominoes never fell. I never got over that.
Clapping!
I don’t know if this is funny or sad.
Common sense people.
If Bin Laden was already dead he would have been a martyr the day he died.
I have never seen a case where this group of Muslims has faked a death or kept it secret.
If they did not get Bin Laden they would be the first to tell us because it would be an embarrassment of historic reverence.
If their was any sign it was not him the Republicans would be screaming it from the top of their lungs.
I understand the government is not to be trusted but you guys are entering the birhther stage.
Matter of fact most of them agree with you.
Like I said though if anyone is gonna beat back the threat you speak of it will be a second term of Obama and hopefully a reverse of 2010. Again a third party=a President Romney or Huckabee-or Trump-along with a now Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell and the “Couragous One”-Ryan’s budget- threatening this very social quality of life infrastructure you speak of.
My point is OBL and 9/11 aside for a moment, looking at it cynically-but realistically-that Obama is getting so much credit is all to the good as it will strenghthen him to fight this threat. If Obama were to lose this country is truly over. If he’s re-elected-and hopefully the Congressional Dems will come back-there is some hope.
I realize the government has not been honest with us and I agree that they have been caught in many lies. Therefore if my cousin was not one of the navy seals that actually went in and got the bastard I would also not believe Bin Laden to be dead. According to my cousin that had strict orders to take him alive if at all possible. The trouble was that Usama came out shooting like crazy and if the navy guys were not wearing bullet proof equipment and were not quick to kill him they would have been killed themselves. My cousins vest was destroyed and he has a surface wound on his arm from a bullet that glazed him. I’m not sure why they dumped the body, my cousin just said it was orders but prior to dumping the body they took pictures and hair samples and later performed DNA testing of those samples.
Killing Usama doesn’t really change much as he was just one man in a much larger network of terrorists.
I was thinking of Ronald Reagan, Dick Cheney, Donald Rumsfeld, Oliver North, et al.
El Duderino (below)……here’s a few of the 100+ eyewitnesses reporting bombs and secondary explosions. These brave people HAVE been speaking out continuously since that day, but many people like you, just don’t want to listen.
http://www.911docs.net/firefighters_reveal_explosions.php
http://www.911docs.net/william_rodriguez.php
http://www.911docs.net/john_schroeder_interview.php
Um, the latest official story is that bin Laden was unarmed, so he didn’t come out shooting, as you claim.
I killed a 72 point moose! It was such an incredible specimen. Afterwards, I determined that it didn’t deserve to be eaten or displayed as a trophy. So I gave it a respectable burial in a never-to-be-disclosed location. I have pictures, but they’re pretty gruesome and would likely inflame animal rights activists, so I have yet to determine whether I will release them or not.
Newsflash:
Osama Bin Laden was found in the Texas School Book Depository, quickly buried at Sea, and is now resting comfortably at the bottom of the Gulf of Tonkin.
___
“We know it’s him, because we found three boxcutters in the Texas School Book Depository”, said a joyous President Obama.
“Thank God for Human Torture, Jesus, and the American Way. Now lets’ blow up a bunch of Iranians.”, replied Senator Lindsey Graham.
“It’s pretty well been confirmed that Bin Laden has visited the Texas School Book Depository. We wouldn’t have known any of this if we hadn’t have Tortured those four nuns along several hundred peace activists, so there is no doubt that Human Torture is essential to our existence.”, stated Dick Cheney.
“I told you we were gonna smoke ‘em out. Heh…heh…heh…heh..”, stated George W. Bush.
Joe Lieberman has filed an Amendment to the U.S. Constitution to formally delcare the right of the U.S. Government to routinely Torture all U.S. Citizens prior to the age of 21 to ensure that they are not ‘terrorists’. The legislation is expected to easily pass the U.S. Senate by a vote of 99 – 1.
“Hey Rocky! Watch me pull Osama outta my hat!”
“Again? That trick *never* works!”
“This time for sure!”
***BANG*** *thump* ***BANG***
Well, one could also note that OBL being an “alive” boogyman has benefited the powers that be for a very long time. Now, it benefits them that he is “dayed”. I don’t know if he died awhile ago or now or is still alive, but it is the “perception” that is used to control people that is the problem. No one is suggesting that “this group of Muslims has faked a death”..but the way perception has been carefully manipulated is what is really suspect. If you believe in “cartoon” evidence (which was also used by Powell to gain support for the invasion of Iraq”, then that really borders on the “birther” thinking..if you think about it.
FLASH ! MyFDL Becomes the Jeff Rense program. Film and special commentary by Jeff at 11:00.
A fitting visual for the occasion –
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-53Cx4nHUFdM/TZSAEHZSHKI/AAAAAAAAAP4/9rAH-qXvP4A/s400/gulliblepublic.jpg
First time I’ve laughed since my *west coast time* Amazing Race was interrupted for the joy of a nation killing one man that probably died years ago but we will never know for sure because our government lies for a living.
Thanks! (but whattabout the boxcutters on the grassy knoll huh?)
And people wonder WHY I prefer reality teevee to politics. It’s more truthy.
Right on, Debbie!!
I’ve also been wondering about the ramifications of the U.S. introducing Kill and Dump as a legitimate tactic in foreign policy. Will we be as willing to do bland news coverage if the Iraqi’s decide to send an ops team into Texas to Kill and Dump George Bush?
I have questions.
p.s. Question #1: Why was there a training drill going on at Norad that involved jets flying into buildings of importance at the same time? Coincidence or adding to the chaos factor ?
Question #2: How much would it have cost to remove the Twin Towers and Building 7 due to their failing the asbestos codes?
Answer #2: I dunno, but I’ll bet Urban Moving Systems would have done it for them wholesale.
gesneri, I’m sorry you had to go to Viet Nam. My husband was drafted and sent as well.
The dominoes never fell. There was no reason.
But, the blowback of war keeps on rolling through our lives.
Fucking War Profiteers.
lol! It’d take a big blackmarket operation to dump that shit. They’d have to haul it to New Jersey, right?
Iraq has weapons of mass destruction.
Osama bin Laden was killed and buried at sea.
Dear Government, if you want me to believe what you say, tell me the truth.
It was an intentional breakdown in communication in our security system. This is no conspiracy theory… it’s conspiracy FACT.
Part of the “cover up” happened when Tower 7 went down. That was their center of operations on location.
Make no mistake about this: Obama masterminded NOTHING! He is simply a puppet that does what he’s told… or else!
A possible re-election bid is only a side effect of this Osama thing, but definitely NOT its primary purpose.
This bullcrap announcement of killing Osama actually accomplishes several things:
1. It’s a distraction to the resurfacing of Obama’s citizenship by Donald Trump.
2. It gives the families of their 9/11 victims a reprehensibly false sense of closure. I feel so bad for those people because 9/11 was a demolition job done by our own government and Silverstein simply out of greed at any cost to anyone else. I’m sure I’ll get bashed for saying that. But I speak only on the evidence, not hearsay. Silverstein bought the Trade Center complex in the spring of 2001 for $15 million. He then had his insurance policy adjusted to include monetary damages for a “terrorist attack”, which COINCIDENTALLY happened that fall, just a few weeks later. Guess what? Silverstein was awarded $7 BILLION in monetary damages for that faked terrorist attack! Silverstein also has strong ties with global political arenas, including our own government. When Tower 7 “collapsed” (was “pulled”, a demolition term), it housed all of the Enron case files which was all of the evidence of the $70 BILLION electrical fraud scam it was facing! Case closed… instantly! How convenient!
3. It distracts from our spiraling economy and rising food and gas prices. The dollar ain’t worth toilet paper any more and yeah, it makes perfect sense to me to tax gas just because it reached a 25% increase in cost. That sure helps my family.
4. It sets the stage for the REAL purpose of this Great Lie.
The REAL purpose: A PSY-OP
Now some things for you to think about.
1. They had to back out after they used the obviously photoshopped image of their newest “dead” Osama. It’s simply Osama’s face superimposed on the face of another real dead man. They got caught on this right away, but of course it won’t be publicized.
2. They immediately buried him at sea? Suuure! LMAO! They don’t HAVE a body because they did not kill him like they said they did!
3. They did not take him “alive” as a war criminal because that would mean public trials… which would EXPOSE THEIR WHOLE SCAM!
4. The whole purpose of the Afghanistan war was supposedly to “get Osama”. Well, are you hearing “mission accomplished” and “the war is over”. No you’re not, because this FAKE WAR is NOT OVER! Not by a long shot.
5. They claimed that Pakistan was harboring him in a “million dollar mansion”. That shack looks nothing better than an LA crack house.
6. Now they have the American peoples’ backing to invade Pakistan for harboring a known and wanted terrorist, which they will. Guess who Pakistan’s allies are? CHINA and RUSSIA!
All I have to say is this. Everything is going according to their evil greedy plan, and if we don’t all wake up right now out of our collective acid trip, World War 3 is right on your doorstep!
Mark my words.
Redhawk
You’re right. Osama and the “terrorists” in the Middle East had nothing to do with 9/11 at all. The only terrorists are in our own White House. Read the reply I made to the OP outlining this.
You’re also right on point two. When someone lies, they eventually MUST tell more lies to back up the first lie. This starts a Butterfly Effect that can’t be stopped until the truth comes out. The longer it continues, the more desperate and unbelievable the lies become. That’s exactly what’s happening right now. As far as I’m concerned, the lies have already fallen and now we have to wait for the smoke to clear… IF it ever does! The reprehensible acts committed against us by our own government is unforgivable.
How will our establishment respond? The only way it knows how: LIES, VIOLENCE AND BLOODSHED!
Well said yourself! You see clearly what’s happening here! KUDOS!
He was “killed” in 2001, IF he was even killed at all!
It doesn’t matter at this point WHO you vote for! I would highly suggest that you forget about political procedure as the norm you’re used to and go google some of the stuff we’re discussing here, because you’re still hoodwinked, my friend. No offense meant, but it’s true.
Well said. Take a look at my reply to the OP here for my thoughts.
Well said, my friend!
The proof is everywhere! If you’re truly interested in my answers to your ridiculous questions here, read my reply to the OP’s original post… or are you one of those “plants” that our “governemnt” uses to cause dissent with the “sheeple” who start to rally against the blatant and OBVIOUS lies told to us by them at the cost of our OWN FAMILIES’ LIVES?
GET A CLUE OR GET OUT!
***MODNOTE: disagree with the message but do not insult, demean or otherwise flame other commenters. doing so will result in your comments being moderated***
Agreed.
Here are some very reliable news sources for you:
http://www.prisonplanet.com/
http://www.corbettreport.com/
http://www.activistpost.com/
http://foodworldorder.blogspot.com/
http://mediamonarchy.blogspot.com/
http://qwmagazine.co.uk/
http://www.blacklistednews.com/
http://deadlinelive.info/
http://tarpley.net/
http://www.engdahl.oilgeopolitics.net/index.html
http://endthelie.com/
http://bilaterals.org/
http://weeklyintercept.blogspot.com/
I couldn’t have said it better myself!
He was not buried at sea, because there was no body.
Don’t be stunned at the lack of response by the American citizens. It’s been this way for decades and longer. That won’t change. I’m glad to see that you are starting to wonder about that, though, because only as soon as people start wondering that themselves will anything ever be done about it.
Get ready for martial law… and soon.
In a bathtub? Ewwww…..
Though that would explain a lot.
Very well said and thanks for the link.
LOL! Yes, and among many hundreds of other superhuman feats from people living in caves!
Thanks for this new idea for me to look at. It’s an educated approach and it makes perfect sense. Kudos!
Just a matter of time, but we’re out of time now. They know they’re busted now and they’ll take desperate measures. Get ready.
All of those “accomplishments” are very nice and all, but make no mistake it’s all choreographed. There are actually about 23 or so levels of “government” ABOVE the president. He is nothing more than a puppet and a mouthpiece for the choreographers of the dance. Not hearsay.
Ditto!
LOL! For sure!
Yes, I’ve been long past disgusted. I can’t puke any more!
AMEN, Brother! There is a reason for all this BS. See my reply to the OP’s original post.
Yes, this choreographed dance was planned and implemented many years ago. Personally, I believe it was set in stone when Kennedy was “assassinated”.
Democrat + Republican; *shake and stir = THEY’RE ALL THE SAME! THE SYSTEM DOES NOT WORK AND NEVER HAS!
Did you photoshop them yet like our “government” did?
Kill and Dump never happened. This is simply another great lie so that people will support their next move: Pakistan. then after that, you can expect China and Russia getting in on the action, and NOT against Pakistan.
The Big Picture is very disturbing, to say the least.
Please see my reply to the original post by the OP. Building 7 had MUCH more significance than an asbestos violation!
You don’t say?
Dear Government, you’re a liar and the truth ain’t in you.
Taken from: http://my.firedoglake.com/ohiogringo/2011/05/03/about-bin-laden-a-few-questions/
The burial at sea according to Muslim tradition, not so much.
Besides, people of the Muslim faith say bullshit.
“Sheikh al-Azhar, who is the highest religious authority in Egypt and for Sunni Muslims worldwide, was asked for his statement re the killing of Osama bin Laden. He answered tersely, saying that disposing of his body at sea violates all Islamic precepts and values, according to which the dead must be buried in the earth.”
Has anyone else noticed the timing of this to be suspicious? I’m not talking about elections, I’m talking about the general morale of the country. I was hearing talks of revolution, of taking back what is ours, of righting this corrupt atrocity of a government. I heard people say “It’s time for an Egyptian revolution here”. Now the moral is back and all the talk of standing up and no longer being the cowardly populace, has vanished. We have sunk back into complacency and seem to be fine with it. We have regained the pitchfork and torches mentality of ‘If you don’t agree, you don’t love Merika’
And how convenient was it there was an english speaking IT guy in Pakistan Live-Blogging the helicopters, gunfire and explosions?
I think having Pakistan protest the incursion into their air space takes the cake tho.
The corporate media does refer to the “Obama brand.”
your stupid site, http://www.debunking911.com, which I have looked at, is truly for morons only. The level of discourse of you silly propaganda worshipers is appalling.
On the few occasions that you kids come up with something, it great, really. The only example I can think of is you people’s correct pointing out that it was not a normal demolition. That is over a decade of talking shit, one worthwhile point.
Only anti-intelligence fanatics, or pro-stupidity fanatics, calls thinkers or investigators “conspiracy theorist”.
Can you never come up with any proof that stands up to scrutiny ?
One of the funniest things about you paid-to-post (or FBI/mossad cadet arsewipes) is that you think that your words come to something. Take you as an example: you have no faith in your lies, so instead you just try to get the last word. Watch.
> This is probably why his body was disposed of so quickly.
Distilled essence of dishonesty, lying at its finest.
Considering our rapid slide into outright theocratic fascism, in my humble opinion, dead or alive, Osama bin Laden won hands down.
Well what can I tell you, redhawk? I don’t necessarily deny that there are “23 or so levels of “government” ABOVE the president” though I would be impressed if you can name all 23 of them.
Nor do I necessarily argue with you over the “choreagraohed” nature of the government. Then again it’s not like the US government is unique in this regard. Bottomline if the economy improves-which it has a shot under Obama and none if he loses-then it’s to the good choregrahed or no.
As far as this ongoing saga over 9/11, what really happened? is OBL really dead? I definitely have always been skeptical and still am. Still it’s been 10 years and nothing has been determined. I’m still a skeptic of 9/11-at a minimum I think there’s more to it than the offical version and will continue to learn what I can about it-again, on the Lawrence O’Donnell show last night they had the quote of W in 2002 saying that OBL wasn’t much of a priority, but what was real interesting is W also said “if he’s alive” again suggesting OBL may have been dead then- but then I don’t believe the Warren Report answered all questions either yet life goes on and the more time passes the more many people who don’t stay all that informed-they stay a little informed but not a lot- are just gonna say whatever, it’s just a conspiracy theory. And what I can’t help but notice is that in the mainstream media the main “truthers” you hear from are Right-wing nuts like Napolitino. Just after I heard the news on Sunday I tried to find some “truthers” on the net and found this website that turnd out to blame 9/11 on a “Zionist” plot.
Be all this as it may I still support Obama and believe it’s gonna be real bad if he were defeated. I’m not just gonna throw up my hands and say “the’re all bad” and give it to the Republicans.
Oh, the misquoting of the fire fighters! I was wondering when you would try to drag that lie out.
http://www.debunking911.com/quotes.htm
Oh, and this:
More:
http://www.debunking911.com/fire.htm
Read the rest. Your guys took the quotes out of context and ignored the rest. That is being deliberately deceitful. Do yourself a favor and stop urinating all over the dead. You are not doing their memory or their loved ones any favors by spreading this.
Then consider me a “moron” for not believing more lies. Each and every one of your claims has been disproven repeatedly. You can’t accept that a bunch of “dirty cave dwelling Arabs” possessed the knowledge and organization to pull off the attacks, exposing your racism. You can’t accept that the towers collapsed as a result of the airplanes and the fires, not wanting to believe that anything so grand as the WTC towers could possibly have been brought down by anything other than us. In your paranoia, you can’t accept that people can look at the facts presented (even when accompanied by visual evidence) and reach the opposite conclusion you reached, so in your mind we MUST be on the government payroll. I *WISH* I had a government job, they have good pay and slightly better benefits depending on what part you work for. The fact that you delude yourself with this reveals self-deceptive thinking on your part. Worse is that when confronted with the facts refuting your claims, you have no other way of defending your lies except to accuse people of being stupid or in the pay of the government/Mossad. Nothing you have shown yet has withstood scrutiny.
Thank you for proving my point for me. You have revealed much more about your own deficiencies than you have about 9/11.
What 9/11 did for me is to see that the “official narrative” of the Israel/Palestine conflict was rigidly controlled and horribly one-sided (the opposite of the desired response).
From there it seems we’ve followed the Israel police state model as well as abandoning any concern for “collateral damage.”
Add to this the layers of lies and nonsense as US officials continue to treat us like mushrooms (i.e. kept in the dark and fed crap).
I feel the groundwork is being laid for a false-flag attack to further whip up a frenzy against the enemy of choice in the GWOT.
I hope I’m wrong.
Yep. If they supposedly hated us for our “freedoms” they need no longer as we’ve lost most of them since then in the process.
Add to that a piece I saw shortly after we invaded Afghanistan, purportedly from a special ops military official (wish I could locate the essay) who pointed out that using million dollar cruise missiles to blow up $50 worth of camping equipment (“terrorist training bases”) would eventually bankrupt us (as was OBL’s supposed plan all along).
Mission effing-accomplished!
I find the timing of this bin Laden thing and the transitioning of Panetta and Petraeus to also be kind of suspicious.
Steve R. Pieczenik wants to testify:
http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=24622
Here’s the video of Pieczenik speaking out:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=bU2n1UiY3I0