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About 206 million Americans were eligible to vote. http://www.statisticbrain.com/voting-statistics/
Of the eligible voters a total of 146 million Americans, or about 75%, actually registered to vote. That’s an unusually high ratio that reflects mounting rage about the depression and insistent demands for positive action by voters. Of those registered voters Obama got roughly 54.5 million votes or a bit under 50% of the total final vote (as distinguished from both the eligible and registered votes). Romney got about 53.5 votes or just under 49% of the total vote. Approximately one quarter didn’t register and among registered voters about one third didn’t vote. Obama and Romney split half of the eligible vote and non voters comprised the other half of eligible voters. http://www.census.gov/compendia/statab/cats/elections/voting-age_population_and_voter_participation.html
It was clear throughout the campaign that working people were desperate for solutions to unemployment, the Depression and for an end to wars of aggression and high GI causalities. It was clear that workers wanted socialized medicine. They were offered no solutions. Obama said he was for excellence in education, which we know from their actions in Chicago means busting teachers unions. As for the rest Obama and Romney engaged in personal attacks and little else. Romney correctly accused Obama for forgetting the unemployed but conveniently omitted the fact that many of them are victims of his own corporate piracy. Obama was telling the truth when he accused Romney of having a callous attitude towards workers but declined to say why he’s done nothing real or substantial to reduce the nearly 15%, four year long run of the violence of unemployment, poverty and homelessness.
Both ignored their insurance reform plans because there are so few differences. Romney because he wanted to attract Teaparty voters and Obama because he didn’t want it known that he and Romney agreed on making insurance companies, HMOs and big Pharma richer at the expense of workers, especially poorer workers and seniors. During the next four years Democrats will do anything and everything to please the rich and so will Republicans.
Both pretended to have differences about the prosecution of mad dog wars of aggression against Arabs and muslims and out did each other in promising to supply more bullets and phosphorous bombs for the mad dog zionist ethnic cleansers.
Both promised to increase the level of forced austerity and continue attacks on the last shreds of the Bill of Rights. They aim to gut entitlements like Social Security and Medicare/Medicaid.
Both agreed to continue to attack teachers unions under the guise of ‘excellence’ in education. Neither will let up on their attack on unions because it’s the key to driving down workers wages and engorging the rich at the expense of workers.
Working people are out in the cold with gutless union leaders and another failed election with no solutions in sight. We have no choice but to build workers parties and create a workers government.
81 Comments
And don’t bother searching Google for real news. I tried to find out what results Jill Stein received, nothing from teh Google. A Yahoo search found “Jill Stein’s Best State is Maine” and I STILL could not find it on Google when I used quotation marks. No surprise BombA “won.” The only blessing to that is that we don’t have to hear “oh he’s just starting out, you can’t expect him to actually DO anything” for 3.5 years… Funny, he’s had no trouble getting everything he’s wanted that benefits the banksters and screws you and me.
Yes indeed.
Yep. I’m disappointed with Green too at this point (but I voted for all their candidates in my area). Let’s make a real workers party.
Sharon: Check google’s election coverage. Sadly it seems Jill didn’t get many votes.
NYTimes Editorial:
“Here They Go…..”
“Rising entitlements. The right has railed against entitlement spending since the 1960s, and its frustration boiled over in the Tea Party movement. The welfare state is a threat to traditional conservative values of personal responsibility (people have less incentive to plan for their own future) and fiscal solvency. Despite the logical errors in Mitt Romney’s “47 percent” comments, we do face bankruptcy when the baby boomers retire and a shrinking percentage of workers must pay the ever growing expenses of a ballooning class of retirees. Yet the Democrats want to “protect” older Americans, students and almost everyone else from the need to sacrifice.”
my bold on “face bankruptcy”. NYTimes buys into that meme without blinking an eye.
Watching the returns last night, these participation numbers were the ones I was looking for and never saw. Thank you for posting them, and for recognizing that the true story of yesterday’s elections is the continued lack of participation in the United States of America.
The person who can tap into this assortment of abstainers, lazybones, and the hopeless can truly change the world.
Do you suppose if they turned elections into a lottery, where a vote cast became a chance at winning a multimillion dollar jackpot… would participation approach 100 percent?
On second thought, a lifetime exemption from income taxes might sell better with some people… perhaps the lottery winner should be offered several alternative prizes.
Those participation numbers should be available in a few days. Watch Wiki.
They’re always low and those who don’t vote aren’t lazy, shiftless and irresponsible. They just don’t want to attach themselves, in any way or to any extent to fundamental and irreformable indecency of two party politics in a state ruled by the rich.
We need to create a workers state and confiscate the wealth of the .01% before we can dream of doing better.
I didn’t vote. It’s the first time I haven’t voted in a presidential election since I was 18. I have some regrets that I didn’t go ahead and vote for Jill Stein, but this year (unlike in 2008) I was just unable to force myself back into that voting booth, back into participating in a system that has zero integrity. The oligarchy owns the candidates and the counting mechanisms; they will win every single time.
I couldn’t sleep last night because I was so angry and distraught. Not because Obama won; that outcome was evident from the beginning. But because of the cheerleading and the “Oh, Thank God!” and the “Now the real work begins.” Americans have fallen prey – many willingly – to another massive con job. If I had a way to get out of here, I would. But I can’t, so it’s off the therapist for some anger management therapy and back out into the streets when that doesn’t work. In the meantime, we can grow some food and try to take of ourselves and perhaps a few of our neighbors. Because if this “election” didn’t teach us anything else, it certainly reinforced this: WE ARE ON OUR OWN. (Almost lost my fucking dinner when I read Salon’s headline about Obama’s win being about how he made government matter in the lives of people. True, but not for the better.)
End of rant.
^^Oops, I meant off TO the therapist (not planning to off my therapist).
The elation of Obama supporters who cheer on rule by corporation in a police and surveillance state, when the Arctic ice is history , half of all species will be gone within the century and the oceans face a mass extinction event unseen in human history within a few decades strikes me as particularly depressing this morning.
Can’t wait to hear democrats defend the cutting of medicare ,medicaid and social security in the next few months and selling us on why Obama had to approve the keystone pipeline to save the environment.
Six billion spent on the most expensive election in history. same president with no ideas to solve the problems we face. same gridlocked congress.
What a victory .
I hear ya, hotflashcarol. I went in the wrong door to vote and when I saw the neverending line on the other side of the gymnasium, I was tempted to not re-enter. I knew that no matter what I voted, it wouldn’t count, and I live in a so-called “swing state.” To paraphrase whoever, “it’s not who votes, it’s who counts the votes.” If so few people are voting, why are there such long lines, and why is it on a workday? Elections are such bullshit in the U.S.
The comments on facebook I’m seeing today “yay, four more wonderful years” and “Yay, our vaginas are safe” are vomit-worthy. What are they gonna say when Social Security is cut, and more people are dying in wars or starving here than ever? Oh, that’s right, they won’t even notice. Or they’ll say it’s the repubs’ doing, even as Obama is smirking with his bloody pen in hand.
Extrapolating from the numbers in your post, roughly 108 million voted, just about half of those you say are eligible voters. That’s close enough for me, I don’t have to wait for specifics.
And for you to say that none of the non-voters are lazy? I am not saying they all are lazy — that’s why I included the hopeless and those abstaining on principle.
Come on… You have to admit that some of those 100 million non-voters are lazy.
Not so fast, my friend! Many who don’t vote are indeed lazy-excuses range from “I’m not interested in politics”, to a flat “I don’t vote”. I have met folks who are afraid to allow their address become public information through registering to vote. But a majority just claim they are “Too busy” or profess their apolitical beliefs.
Your position doesn’t take local races and propositions into account. Even if one is completely turned off by National politics, they have a vested interest in local affairs, which are much more tangible to the average person. And that, my friend, is simply a give a shit attitude, to wit, laziness.
Yeah, I am sure I lost a few Facebook friends last night because the comments were so sickening and I couldn’t stay out of it. And these are all people who would call themselves progressive, liberal, left, etc. The logic that Obama being unfettered from re-election concerns will make him go left just blows my mind – I think we have every reason to believe that the exact opposite is true. But that’s just me.
What, a victory?
What, me worry?
You’re in need of an extensive education. Or maybe you’re just in deep denial.
The US has been a two party plutocracy since 1877.http://compromiseof1877.com/info/info.htm
The US is a rogue, terrorist state and a banana republic.
The US is a cesspool of bigotry, racism and misogyny where large sectors of the populace are systematically and indecently set aside for extra doses of maltreatment in addition to being underpaid wage slaves, when they can find a job.
The US is in a long depression, which Paul Krugman compares to the Long Depression from 1873 – 1879 and it’ll probably exceed the Long Depression length and is likely to deepen into a may develop into a another Great Depression. Depressions are inevitable in a dog eat dog capitalist society. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOP2V_np2c0&feature=player_embedded
Two party politics are just as corrupt and incompetent on local and state levels as they are nationally. Mrs. O’Leary’s Cow, in addition to almost burning the town down, regularly votes Democrat in Chicago elections.
And you have the temerity to accuse half the electorate of being lazy. I believe that people who refuse to acknowledge the depravity of capitalist society are beyond lazy, they’re living in Cloud Cuckoo Land.
Quick, call the CDC. Laziness must be epidemic. 1/3 opted out in 2008 and this time it’s roughtly 1/2. It’s the plague!
Three of the non voters are lazy. The other hundred million or so are boycotting mendacity, wars of aggression, union busting, racism etc.
Exactly. It’ll get much worse early next year.
Voting turnout has stayed around 50% for the last 100 years.
Generally, the research on why about half of elligible citizens don’t vote suggests that the biggest reasons (accounting together for around 75%) are an awareness that special interests control elections and, relatedly, politicians don’t represent the citizenry. Which is to say that most of half of elligible voters know the game is rigged. How much of a fool does one have to be to participate in a rigged game?
I don’t suspect that a lottery (i.e. a tax on folks who can’t do math) will appeal to folks who have a better than average awareness of bullshit.
Getting rid of the corporate bribes we call campaign “donations” might well raise the percentage of participants, but marketing tricks probably won’t fool this group of “abstainers.”
Well, this is democracy at work. This is what the majority of people wanted, essentially more of the same. Some of us don’t like it including myself but that’s the way it is.
I vote Green but as I mentioned to folks long before this election, I’m this close to not even bothering any more because our system is so corrupted.
Oh, quick, call the CDC, there’s a dangerous carrier of snarky holier-than-thou superiority virus running around FDL!!!
Too late!! I’m infected! I bow to Bill Perdue’s amazing sardonic wit! What brilliance! What insight! Hire this man! Genius!
New York Times does not understand Monetary Sovereignty and toes the line for plutocracy and lies.
–The old saw says, “Let sleeping dogs lie.” Right. Still when there is much at stake it is better to get a newspaper to do it.
- Following the Equator, Mark Twain.
http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/10/29/how-your-lords-yes-you-have-lords-use-myths-to-rule-you/
and
http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/10/23/what-is-the-federal-debt-a-primer-for-politicians/
You lose. Facts and historical analysis wins.
It is clearly disturbing that so few people vote but to say that we didn’t get anything from this election is incorrect IMO. We have some great new FEMALE Senators. We ladies are slowly taking the world back from old white males.
You are absolutely correct and actually quite helpful for adding historical turnout information to the conversation, unlike the author of this post.
Quite honestly, those who rig the game are not likely to ever change the rules to the benefit of the voter. I was just trying to make a tongue-in-cheek observation about the futility of it all and felt challenged when someone tried to pigeonhole my response.
Par for the course for community blogging…
I lost when I first posted, yes… And you win. Congratulations.
“But because of the cheerleading and the “Oh, Thank God!” and the “Now the real work begins.””
One of the things that this Presidential election demonstrated is that Reps aren’t the only party of authoritarian followers who lack cognitive dissonance. Dems just did for Obama what Reps did for George W. in 2004: They knew who he was and what he did, and they approved.
I have yet to get an answer from anyone who suggested that the “lesser of two evils” be elected and then forced left exactly how this will happen after giving their approval to Obama’s previous actions. Perhaps you have heard something from these people? That not a single person can respond to this tells me one thing: it is delusional bullshit. Maybe they didn’t hear that Emanuel called them “fucking retarded” when Team Obama still had another election they could win? Who could imagine that an administration that had this kind of attitude toward them would respond to their pressure after they were lame ducks?
Did you catch Radicalee’s recent post on elections as religious ritual? http://my.firedoglake.com/radicalee/2012/10/28/american-religion-the-faith-of-politics/
“The oligarchy owns the candidates and the counting mechanisms; they will win every single time.”
Exactly. The election was not between Obama and Romney but between the owners and the citizenry. The citizens lost, again. What is ironic is how so many supporters of Occupy Wall Street also voted for Obama. Voting against one’s own interests is not the sole purview of Reps either. I wonder who will write, “What’s the Matter with New York?”
Oh, yes. I understood what you were saying. I didn’t mean to come across as confrontational in my response to you. I was just trying to add to your point.
“But a majority just claim they are “Too busy” or profess their apolitical beliefs.”
While “too busy” is one of the reasons folks give for not voting, the big reasons are that they think the game is rigged and politicians don’t represent them. Check the research yourself. Also, if one has decided that voting is a rigged game, being “too busy” is not a sign of laziness but of efficiency.
No shit! Mr. Perdue is so far superior, mentally and morally, to us lowly beings who participated in the election. I relate actual on the ground experience, but I am obviously deluded, and therefore subject to Perdue’s considered judgement that I, and millions of his fellow countrymen, are in “Cloud Cuckoo Land”. Temerity? Look in the mirror, sport!
I submit that Perdue’s methodology of bitching on blogs will surely cause great change in the world. To doubt that that the great and wonderful Perdue means that you are irrational, or in Bill’s words, in “Cloud Cuckoo Land”. When one can be so smug and condescending, he is nothing more than a legend in his own mind. Bill “Che” Perdue has spoken, and he is not to be questioned!
“The US has been a two party plutocracy since 1877 . . .”
Excellent catch! It is in the wake of this development in US history that voting participations plummented from around 70-80% to the 50% that we have seen for the last century.
I’m probably delusional, but I still feel we “average citizens” have some say at the State & local level, esp for things like Propositions. That “say” is getting less by each year, but is still there, methinks.
I voted for Dr. Stein, but with some sadness bc I don’t feel that the Green Party has done much of anything to really be worthy of that vote. I like a lot of Stein & her running mate said and DID during this election cycle – despite being completely ignored by the corp-owned media. But, but, but…
I refused to vote for CA Senator. WAR-is-GREAT-for-MEEEEE, DiFi? No thanks.
Some Reps & Senators got voted out that made me happy-ish, like snotty Dan Lungren in the CA 7th, but only time will tell if the new-comers are even interested in making a difference or if they just sell-out on Day One. I’m pretty cynical, and I’m not holding my breath.
I do think more citizens are seeing how corrupt things are, but despite a Long Depression – or whatever you want to call it – people simply are not *hurting enough* to DO much of anything. And so: complacency prevails, and we get the same old, same old.
Sorry that it is that way. I’ve done what I can over the years; unsure where to go from here.
Good luck to us all, no matter who/how we voted! We’re gonna need it.
Aw, c’mon. Really?!
Thank you for explaining that to me, OG. I guess I don’t have the radical, anarchist chops of some of you people. Having spoken to literally thousands of prospective voters in the last few months logically means I have no basis to state facts here as I perceive them. But as Perdue has so eloquently put it, I’m “living in Cloud Cuckoo Land”, as I suppose are all who dare disagree with his pronouncements.
I did not, to my knowledge, endorse 0′s conduct. And if you don’t believe that the majority are too lazy or too uncaring to vote, as opposed to conducting a tacit display of nonparticpation in protest of our (admittedly) rotten system, I have a nice bridge available.
People are still insisting that this time, Obama will follow through on his promises, but they have no rationale and just say they want to “remain optimistic,” for instance. It reminds me of abuse victims; even though he thinks I am a fucking retard, he promised not to hit me any more and I want to believe him. I say that in all seriousness; it is definitely not funny. The electorate continues to make it really easy for the oligarchy to beat us down.
Thanks for the link, I will check it out.
I heard a lecture on NPR (of all things) on Monday evening 11/5.
http://www.worldaffairs.org/audio-video/its-your-world-radio/
Unfortunately I cannot locate the archive for it.
The person who lectured discussed how other nations of similar wealth conduct their elections. It was quite enlightening. For ex, in the UK, citizens are *automatically* registered to vote, and they are sent information on how/when/where to vote.
There are also different ways that votes can be counted in different countries (this is very simplistic) – not to rig the votes, but to enable so-called “third parties” to get in & have more of a say in the running of the govt.
US citizens have been brainwashed to believe that ONLY a 2 party system makes sense. Well, yes: it makes sense if you’re rich & in with the “in” crowd. For the rest of us: not so much.
US citizens are woefully uneducated, unfortunately, but how & where we go from here is a good question.
People who refuse to vote bc they realize that the system is rigged aren’t necessarily lazy, either. There gets to be a point where it’s simply not worth it, esp with both parties making the process as difficult as possible.
“I’m probably delusional, but I still feel we “average citizens” have some say at the State & local level, esp for things like Propositions.”
Not delusional at all. It seems to be a sliding scale where the more small and local one gets the greater the impact of their vote.
“. . . people simply are not *hurting enough* to DO much of anything.”
Probably. Also, the US lacks the physical public space (e.g. the public square) that nearly every other country has where citizens can talk and act as a group. What the fuck do we have in the US, the mall and Facebook?! This almost complete lack of public space seriously hurts the ability of the citizens to challenge the owners.
I’ve had a few friends who have said: I just cannot STAND to see Mitt Romney win. I *agree* that Obama’s done pretty much the same as GW Bush, but I just don’t want Romney to win.
Well: I can kinda “go” with that. At least, to an extent, they’re more or less being realistic.
Will Obama be “better” than Romney? Debateable but *possible.* The degree of “betterness,” however, will be marginal, at best.
Some of my friends, though, are amongst the ecstatic, who think Barry Zero walks on water. I really don’t get why they see him that way bc these are not stupid people, and usually they are more astute. I find it very sad, frustrating, and frankly, a little scary.
Yes. No Speakers’ Corner ’round these parts.
And anymore, when citizens have temerity to gather, the SWAT team comes out in full regalia to chase everyone away, plus local councils are deeming it illegal to congregate in public spaces, blah blah blah.
You’re correct on that score. The Internet is a great thing for communicating, and to a lesser degree for organizing. But: not enough and not enough face time anymore.
I was agreeing with you but with a caveat. I was not dismissing you (or pretending to know what you know) but pointing out what I see as a complicating error in regard to what might be the reasons for low voter turnout. You’ve got the wrong man if you are looking for a partisan opponent on this topic.
“And if you don’t believe . . .”
It is not a question of belief for me. I’m not an ideologue. The data indicates that being “too busy” is indeed a factor in nonparticipation, but it is not one of the major ones. Also, exactly what “too busy” means has considerable bearing on wether or not it constitutes “laziness.”
“I do think more citizens are seeing how corrupt things are, but despite a Long Depression – or whatever you want to call it – people simply are not *hurting enough* to DO much of anything. And so: complacency prevails, and we get the same old, same old.”
You’re wrong. It was betrayed and enraged Obama youth supporters, many, if not most, unemployed, who organized the Occupier movements.
Unions are on the move, in spite of ‘suits’ like Trumka on the docks, at Walmart (finally), in schools and hospitals, in rail and trucking, especially at UPS, mining and other sectors.
You have to get out more.
I never took Romney seriously, given that Obama has been a wet dream for the oligarchs. If they had intended to get rid of Obama, they would have put up a much stronger “opponent.” So I found it hard to identify with people who were so scared of a Romney win. But I can understand that reaction. What mystifies me is the delusion that Obama’s hands were tied, especially during his first two years when the sky was the limit and he could have pushed just about anything through with a Democratic House and Senate. The evidence of his being, at the very best, center-right, is just not debatable.
Or, to what degree are being “too busy” or “lazy” causes or symptoms?
Yes, and almost no one read his subsequent post, I noticed. Please say how you know that ‘so many’ Occupiers voted for OBomba’? MoveOn 99% pretenders I would understand…
Let’s be perfectly honest here. If you voted for one of the right wing parties – Democrats, Libertarian, Republican then you consciously voted for war, racism, misogyny and union busting. In that case you are the problem.
If you voted Green or for the other centrist reformist parties you’re not the problem but your approach is dead wrong. American capitalism is damaged beyond repair. Nostrums, reforms and band aids won’t work. At best they’ll just prolong the agony of a dying system.
Way to go, Scarecrow! Give ‘em hell. I saw those deleriously cheering crowds in Chicago and wondered whether they liked the destruction of Social Security best or, maybe, the Surveillance State and foreign policy by drone.
You could try being a bit more gracious, too.
I “get out” a lot, including to many Occupy events in different locations, and yes, I’m well aware of the Walmart strikes and have even donated to the strikers.
You have your viewpoint, and I have mine. I support Occupy & the strikes waged by Unions against unfair labor practices.
That said, I still maintain that majority of citizens are not yet hurting enough to rise up from their torpor and ennui to really do something. Most people I know – even those in Unions – are utterly clueless about the Walmart strikes; were totally unaware about the strikes in WI this past winter; and most STILL say that Occupy is filled with lazy moochers who don’t want a job… and this OFTEN comes from people who *unemployed.*
I am speaking from my anecdotal experiences, but I live in a couple of different places; same thing all over. Please attempt not to talk down to me. Thanks.
I’m with you there. I never took RMoney particularly seriously, either. In fact, I never took the whole so-called “Republican Primary” seriously. It seemed clear to me that the PTB were phoning it in using Mitt as their “best choice” out of a very sorry, sad group of extrodinary losers.
Whatever. I can see from the perspective of those who pay *just enough attention* – but probably not enough – that RMoney looked like a thoroughly disgusting specimen. So they voted against him.
Again: that at least makes some sense.
I’m with you, though. the whole excuse-making for Obama is beyond the pale. Anyway: enough said.
“Yes, and almost no one read his subsequent post, I noticed.”
I’m not sure what you mean to say here.
“Please say how you know that ‘so many’ Occupiers voted for OBomba’? MoveOn 99% pretenders I would understand…”
You are right. I don’t know who voted Obama. What I should have more accurately said was, “What is ironic is how so many FDL commenters said they supported or agreed with Occupy Wall Street and also indicated that they voted for Obama.” Additionally, very many of my friends who supported OWS also were Obama supporters.
I suspect that a great many of us want to believe that some benevolent expert is looking out for us in DC. The idea that the owners and their politicians don’t give a fuck about us except as we can serve their interests some find to be a terrifying thought, so terrifying that many of us would rather lie to ourselves about our reality.
There is an excellent argument to be made that one of the major contributors to low voter turn out is having only two “legitimate” parties.
The US could certainly simplify vote counting as well as allow international election monitoring the way we supposedly insist that countries poorer than the US accept.
Ah. You had asked if (someone, all if us, I forget) had seen that post of radicalee’s. I was answering that I had, but not many had read his next one.
OWS was rather pointedly working outside the electoral system that almost all knew served the ologarchy/plutocracy, which is one of major reasons they were totally against to either naming specific ‘demands’ (a few GAs along the way did) or endorsing candidates or allowing people to run *as Occupy candidates*.
As to your last paragraph, I couldn’t agree more. Many here contributed bucks to support the democracy movement, but never reckoned it was a true force for non-violent revolution, or that supporting its beliefs and goals for wealth redistribution or ending the continual oligarchic support to big banking and multinationals meant voting for Obomba was…supremely contradictory at the very least.
One of my friends often opines that he’s more disgusted with the putative Left than the conservative right precisely because many here know exactly what OBomba has wrought in two dozen different directions, and what he said to our fucking faces he’d do in the weeks right after being elected…and still voted for him. I admit it’s disconcerting as all giddy-up to read the comments on the Mothership bitching and kvetching, then to see electoral support for the D name of the Uniparty. Anyway, that was all. ;o)
Gotta agree with onitgoes here, Bill Purdue. The minority of us of good conscience and understanding who know basically how the system operating in this nation *and* how important it is now to ally ourselves in some configuration to kick the hell back at it need to set aside the bitterness and find ways to communicate with each other that don’t divide us even further. IMO, of course.
Along the lines of your first sentence, I clicked on the the annoying Worker’s Voice wallpaper (I sure hope FDL is getting a pretty penny for them being here), sponsor organizations include DailyKos and MoveOn, woohoo. Braggin’ about how they helped win the election for Broncobama. News release about how they backed WI Recall buster Tom Barrett in the Democratic recall primary, says it all in my book. There is a phone list and existing state field offices pdf.
Nice (large) group of well meaning individuals being fed a disingenuous, heaping helping of steaming, feel good misdirection, IMHO. Co-opting the potential left-wing base?
” Also, if one has decided that voting is a rigged game, being “too busy” is not a sign of laziness but of efficiency.”
Dirty little secret: laziness and efficiency are near synonyms.
The four non-debate worthy candidates in WI totaled something like less than 1%. The WI public broadcasting group took the nice county by county maps and info down almost immediately this morning.
The is not about anecdotal experiences. There is absolutely no question about the size and the breadth of the radicalization among unionists, the unorganized, unemployed youth, and immigrant and imported workers. You might see it if you were active in supporting union organizing drives. Contact the local Central Labor Council. Then you’d have an idea about what’s going on. Or any of the growing number of left wing unions or union left groups.
Your original statement flies in the face of the facts. It ignores the mounting radicalization, it’s potential and the necessity to be active to achieve fundamental, radical change. There is absolutely no reason to insist that this is not a period of mass radicalization that, as the economy tanks, will change American history. This is a time to embrace activism, to build the union left and to build left wing tendencies in the Occupier groups.
Ha! We can call it conservation of energy, which is generally a good idea.
Gotcha
You can agree with him but I don’t.
We are not in a pre-revolutionary situation involving huge forces on the left and the right. But we are deep in a radicalization which will get more powerful as Democrats and Republicans join in support of some form of Simpson-Bowles, renew their attacks on unions and make draconian cuts in entitlements.
This is definitely not a time to disparage the extent of the radicalization or miss out on with complaints that it’s not big enough and that people aren’t radical enough.
‘Now our work begins to make *sure he does it* this time. ‘Sign the Petition; you’ll feel so Activist and Better!’ ‘Forward the Light Brigades!’
(I was sooooo hoping da Big Blue Blinks would be gone by today. When ya click on them, do you get dialed for dollars?)
I neither agree nor disagree with onitoges (him or her). I meant that it is singularly unhelpful to piss on the good guys instead of bringing what teachings/understandings we each have to this forum.
I am new to socialism, and only grew interested precisely because I write often of the global indigenous movements and their clear knowledge of what neoliberal capitalism in many hideous forms has crushed them for a long time, and we’re new to those understandings.
You and I are the only people here who post on unions and strikes. You are experienced; I’ve never been in a union, as most of my life I’ve been self-employed, but I both intuitively *and* factually understand how crucial unions are to working people. Thus, I follow some of the stories (Our Walmart, the Walmart Warehouse Workers, etc.) and have posted often about some of the breakaway unions that are gaining power and membership. You have them on the top of your tongue; my crap memory and relative unfamiliarity make me stumble over many such.
What I’m advocating is that since none of us can be absolutely correct in the facts (you don’t subscribe to the term ‘beliefs’, which is most of what I have to offer), smacking people around who perhaps know less, or understand real life differently, or even *extrapolate* from their personal experiences…won’t advance either the argument or help build the coalitions we need to build. And: that includes this site, which I am grateful for, as Ms. Hamsher has permitted me to write about revolution for quite some time. We may all see that differently, and we’ve had countless conversations here about how that looks to different of us.
I also am in favor of having a sense of humor about much of this: ‘if we can’t dance our way to the revolution…fuck it’, or however it goes.
Just skipped past their immediate request for your contact information and searched the headings, About Us, Press, etc.
Thanks Bill Perdue, informative instructive recc’d.
Thank you, nonquixote. ;o)
Nice!
Recommended, Bill. Marriage equality won, the deranged Mormon lost, and in my home state of Washington marijuana is now legal, which is all very nice but won’t keep Obama and his crypto-fascist cronies in Congress from moving to dismantle Medicare, deliver for Big Oil, concoct more job-killing “free trade” agreements, declaw what’s left of organized labor, and butcher their way through Africa, the Middle East and Central Asia in the name of “freedom and democracy”.
I’m too old and battered to do any more jail time and stay healthy, but there’s still plenty ways to be a major pain in the ass to these cretins and have some fun at the same time. No prisoners.
1) The point of my original post was to underscore the inablilty of capitalist politics to solve problems faced by workers.
2) Counterpoised to that perspective were the ideas of nonplussed, who said it was not a failure of capitalist politics but of dumb, lazy workers. He has an obvious right-wing perspective. onitgoes denied the existence of the radicalization. Both are wrong.
3) Political fighting can be ego bruising when people don’t distinguish between criticism of themselves or their ideas. People will have to get used to having their ideas criticized when they’re wrong. There are no good ‘guys’ just good ideas.
Thanks, mojada.
“I’m too old and battered to do any more jail time and stay healthy, but there’s still plenty ways to be a major pain in the ass to these cretins and have some fun at the same time. No prisoners.”
Me too. Jail time is bad for the body and soul.
Our best weapons are our ideas, which bridge the gap between radicalized generations and provide continuity from the time of the fighters at Concord and Gettysburg to the fighters for suffrage, for unions up to the generations that fought and beat back the obscenity of the wars in Vietnam and Iraq and those that learned hard lessons at Madison and Longview.
Well said!
When you donate to the public radio station, here’s a script for you, “I’m giving you five dollars for the five minutes of third party info you gave me the morning after the election.”
Ahead of your there SharonMI, I have a standing offer to a low four figure contribution when they drop their FAUX News format of inviting proven conservatives liars as legitimated guests, and just present the facts instead of feigning fair and balanced. Ain’t going to feed their purse until then.
You had a good post here, Perdue. I appreciate it. Thanks.
However, maybe the line between one’s ideas and who they are is not as stark as you suggest in #3. And when responding to folks who had different ideas than you, you did not just attack their ideas, you attacked them personally (e.g. “you lose,” “you’re wrong,” “you need to get out more”). You did not say that someone’s idea was wrong but that they were. You told commenters here that their experience was irrelevant but then insisted that your experience was fact.
You directly criticized people. You did not distinguish between people and their ideas. Now you are blaming the people you personally attacked for your attack, suggesting that it is their own fault if they got their egos bruised for committing the very thing you did in conflating who they were with what they thought.
Unless one adopts a starkly dichotomous view of things, onitgoes was not denying the existence of radicalization. I suspect that his point was that while radicalization has taken place within some groups, it has not reached critical mass in the general population.
What started out as a good post got partially discredited by your personal attacks on several commenters. If you are only interested in having people who think exactly like you on your side, then I guess that is a good idea.
“There are no good ‘guys’ just good ideas.”
Ideas, then, are more important than people? If so, then whose interests do ideas serve?
Where do good ideas come from if not good people? Or do good ideas, transcendent and immutable, exist before and independently of good people, handed down from god on stone tablets?
+1, ottogrendell. I’d come back to either answer: ‘Okay, then’, but then thought to say that I’d thought that onitgoes was speaking more to a ‘tipping point’ of radicalization, which calculus contains, or can contain, many variables. I was going to use the term ‘binary’ view, but ‘dichotomous’ is better.
‘There are no good guys, just good ideas’ is also twisting my mind. Case in point since Bill mentioned Longview, saw the radical idea of the wildcat strike (with massive help from west coast OWS) and the not-so-good (or worse) outcome of the contract that the Port, EGT, and the leadership of the ILWU local *negotiated*. Dunno but what some Good Guys signed on to bad ideas in the end.
Anyway. A lot of us are starting to learn how toxic capitalism is, but even reading at AntiCapitalism.com can weigh you down reading arguments, counterarguments and attacks on others. So many are so certain they are right. ;o)
Ah; you were submitting while I was still slowly writing. Again, you said it better and more philosophically than I. ;o)
Thank you for your diary, Bill Perdue, and for two other things – a recognition on my part that I don’t know how to multiply fractions any longer, and a further recognition that my son’s insight this morning that the statement ‘there’s an exception to every rule’ has its own internal problems. (Nonetheless I believe and embody this rule.)
I would like to address the following in your comment:
“If you voted Green or for the other centrist reformist parties you’re not the problem but your approach is dead wrong.”
I’ve never heard the alternatives called ‘centrist’ before, but I suppose in saying this you address the problem of participating in a flawed process such as voting, and I would like to present my conviction that even so, participation is important. That it is flawed I have been screeching since the 2000 debacle, so we are in agreement on that. (In the following I do not wish to bash nonvoters; it’s an understandable stance to take under the circumstances.)
I voted for other than the duopoly. At the end of this year, when a ‘new’ regime instates itself, I will have put on record that I did not vote for this regime. What they did with my vote is on them. If they counted it, good; if not, also good. Whatever they did, they did it, not me. I can’t wait not to feel infinitesmally responsible. That will be so freeing.
These four years, and they haven’t quite ended yet, I have been among the retards; we know who we are. The ones who were foolishly fooled. My vote shall release me from that; it was an act. It said ‘this is how things ought to be.’ It doesn’t nullify other participations in the future debate – which began to show its public face in the few avenues open to it online and on the streets and must continue.
So, personally the election wasn’t a failure for me. I shall be released from my burden in January, and this was a step towards that release.
Yeah, I think onitgoes was talking about a tipping point in the overall society.
Haven’t heard of AntiCapitalism. I’ll check it out. Thanks. I like Naked Capitalism and Counterpunch a lot.
“I’m too old and battered to do any more jail time and stay healthy, but there’s still plenty ways to be a major pain in the ass to these cretins and have some fun at the same time. No prisoners.”
“The ones who were foolishly fooled.”
Having this happen always sucks. When it happens to me I always berate myself, “How could I have been so blind/gullible/stupid/etc.”
You did the best thing: Face it, learn from it and then act differently.
“The wise man doubts often, and changes his mind; the fool is obstinate, and doubts not.”
It’s telling that the MSM hasn’t mentioned that 10 million less people voted this time compared with 2008. It appears that the only growing part of the electorate is the one saying they have No Confidence in the system.
This was one I took to heart (and I forgot the S in the site’s name, but it may be because I’m so new to the subject; others called it crap. I kinda think he has Americans described correctly *for now*. ;o) And yes, CP and NC are excellent sites. Lindorff’s new piece has a few bits I might borrow.
When people follow leaders they trip up. When they follow a principled program they stay on course.
I criticized an obvious right winger and someone who denies the reality of a society being transformed by a radicalization. I’ll continue to criticize people who have glaringly wrong ideas.
“Unless one adopts a starkly dichotomous view of things, onitgoes was not denying the existence of radicalization. I suspect that his point was that while radicalization has taken place within some groups, it has not reached critical mass in the general population.” Then he should have said so, instead of this “I do think more citizens are seeing how corrupt things are, but despite a Long Depression – or whatever you want to call it – people simply are not *hurting enough* to DO much of anything. And so: complacency prevails, and we get the same old, same old.” He didn’t.