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Rick Warren: "I love Muslims . . . I happen to love Gays and Straights"
No one ever said that Rick Warren was consistent or that he lacks hypocrisy. Juan Cole’s surprising experience sharing the speaker’s platform recently with Rick Warren and Melissa Etheridge — at a Muslim Public Affairs Council meeting in Long Beach — is worth a read. Cole is quick to point out, with intentional understatement, that,
Warren…saying for Melissa Etheridge to be married to Tammy Lynn Michaels is equivalent to pedophilia or incest is not actually very civil or nice or humane.
A fair reading of why Cole found Warren surprisingly likable could be that he’s a good showman doing damage control with the Islamic and gay & lesbian communities, with his left hand, while his right hand continues to work on Prop. 8 and its consequences.
Cole offers food for thought about the whole package, and wonders whether Obama’s interest in Warren may be more constructive than a desire to distance himself from the Left because it gives him street cred in the Village. Read the whole thing.
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“Please allow me to introduce myself
I’m a man of wealth and taste”
And a helluva nice guy!
People can be nice to you and steal you blind. Con men do it all the time. Nice? Spare me this nice.
Professor Harold Hill, Mr. Warren is not; that might give him too much credit. I suspect Warren is doing damage control as his now greater national prominence, marketability and fundraising ability allow him to grow his
other investmentschurch.It would be fortunate for many if he genuinely invests in good causes and improves the plight of the downtrodden here as well as in Africa. It needn’t be done on the backs of those he casts out, such as the gay & lesbian community, any more than the odd Catholic priest or bishop needed to build its parish outreaches on the backs of nubile altar boys. Obama needs someone to help him refine his notion of a “mixed blessing”.
I really enjoyed reading Juan’s take on Rick Warren. It seems that even Melissa Etheridge made some sort of peace with him. I completely reject Warren’s analogy of homosexuality to incest and pedophilia. Views such as these to me represent ignorance-and ignorance can be alleviated through dialogue and engagement. I think it is right of Obama to reach out to this community but he must also deliver on policy initiatives (such as repeal of don’t ask don’t tell among others)in order to regain the lost trust of the LGBT community. Juan is genuinely impressed (as am I) with Warren’s practice of a “social gospel”. There is much to engage on positively through this work-it can serve as a catalyst to enable increased tolerance and understanding among all groups.
Thanks for pointing out Juan Cole’s post.
I am cynical about Warren’s objectives and whether he’s just playing nice. Juan Cole is an expert on the Middle East and has dissected the characters of some pretty foul politicians, so I was surprised at what may be a conclusion too far about Warren’s goodwill.
Juan Cole is being taken in. Juan Cole calls Warren out on every point but is surprised the man is charming so all is well. This is incredible naive.
Obviously Warren is charming. Charm means NOTHING. Serial killers are charming and manipulative too. Warren is also a liar and this is inconsistent with anything other than being a conman. He lies about Obama. He lies about the Bible. And now he is lying about what he himself said just days ago. If he were truly trying to walk this shit back he would say so ~ to infer that he regrets ANYTHING is ridiculous.
Yes it’s wonderful all the AIDs and Africa work but what about what is happening here at home? And the part Warren is playing in it.
If Warren ”loves” gays and lesbians (and what an odd turn of phrase THAT is), then why has he made these ugly and stupid statements at all? His past actions and this current statements cannot be reconciled except by understanding that he is an abuser and a bully and he wanted his hatred to be ignored by this group at that event. And see how easily it is done.
I do not know what Melissa Etheridge is thinking or why. It’s actually not my business.
I sincerely wish that Warren were worthy of being chosen to represent Obama’s efforts to create unity across this one religious divide. Warren is not worthy. And we have a greater divide than Obama seems to realize.
Then why are you calling out Juan Cole, when in essence he’s doing what she’s doing?
As I just mentioned at Stirling’s response, I hope that Melissa’s career doesn’t suffer because she was on the same stage with Rick Warren. Judging from how tempers are being fanned on this issue, it’s not at all out of the question.
The key attribute that all confidence men must have in order to be successful cons is likability. If they can’t win you over, their cons will fail. Rick Warren is obviously “successful” if he can win over so many despite the glaring shortcomings in his ideology.
A very prescient observation!
Phoenix Woman @ 7: Hi!
Juan Cole is writing in detail about his thoughts and his reactions and making a statement that I think contradicts facts in evidence and so I think he’s inviting reaction to his words. Melissa not so much.
Actually what Juan is saying Warren is saying is ”for the media’s purpose [so it’s a PR play] I actually love” gays and lesbians. Less than perhaps Muslims who he straight out ”loves.” If he were honest and dealing from a place of integrity these are not the words he would use. He’s not making any sense to me. And cannot imagine how he could be more offensive. When Warren says he ”loves” gays and lesbians and Muslims what is Melissa supposed to do?
Warren is also presenting himself to her as a huge fan ~ there’s got to be an awful lot going on for her in this scenario and her response is certainly admirable but it’s really not the point. Juan also says he’s a big fan. {Who isn’t?}
Melissa is not saying Warren’s a good guy like Juan is saying; she’s saying let’s all reach out, or at least that is what Juan is saying Melissa said which could be selective on Juan’s part as well.
Maybe taking Warren at face value is the best approach for Melissa. I don’t know: but I know I am angry for her. Juan says she and Warren spoke for 1/2 and hour and backstage. Who knows what Warren said to her? Did he lie some more? What could she do about that? Did he manipulate her. I don’t know.
I am really appreciating Stirling’s post and will say so there. As Stirling shows Juan does not really know what he is talking about when he gives Warren props for charitable works.
I think Melissa’s career should only be affected positively. Anything else would be unfair but there’s not a lot of fairness going on is there?
I hope I didn’t offend you and that this adds to the dialogue. I heard Melissa on Randi Rhodes’ show late Friday: she did not know Warren would be at the event until it was too late for her to cancel.
By all means, let’s all kiss the big, fat, bigoted ass of Mr. Megachurch! He’s alllll about the loooooooooooooooooove!
Always enjoy reading Juan Cole’s perspective. I thought Bmaz hit the nail on the head why in hell do we need a prayer service anyway during the inauguration? What happened to the separation of church and state?
http://emptywheel.firedoglake……uguration/
If people want to do a service later…let them. I find the whole prayer thing absurd
Well, what’s her face, the blond woman on the view whose name I choose to forget, found a way to completely turn the tables on his choice. He’s not reaching out to republicans, he’s ignorant. Her argument and spin was that Obama claims he didn’t know that Wright was an extremist or that so and so was a terrorist or that Warren was a homophobe.
I thought that was fascinating spin. Here’s my thinking…if this is Obama reaching across the aisle, it won’t matter. They will twist and spin no matter what he did. Clinton did a lot of this. He took republican positions on things like Welfare and it made them completely CRAZY angry.
Obama needs to be Obama…he can reach across the aisle if he wants to…but not when the position is frankly…ignorant, destructive, and prejudiced.
I don’t see value in this pick for Obama. He loses credibility with me here, because I don’t see that he has accomplished “peace” or anything “effective” in this choice. It would be one thing if it “worked” toward accomplishing something. But I can’t see that it is having that effect.
I guess time will tell, but for me, this is just one more area where my caution is high in regard to Obama.