Proof has surfaced today that many of the so-called "evidence" photographs being distributed by the Israeli government as examples of terror weapons on board the Gaza aid flotilla date back years:
The bulletproof vest photos on the Israeli flickr page are dated February 2006.
The axe photo was taken in 2003.
The pepper spray photos – 2003
The iconic pictures of knives and other weapons on the Saudi flag and other stuff:
Hi. Just to confirm that the EXIF metadata points to this photo being taken in 2006:
barney@benchwood:~$ identify -verbose farm5.static.flickr.com/4047/4662965686_a91f8 bab2e_o_d.jpg | grep Date
exif:DateTime: 2010:06:02 10:38:47
exif:DateTimeDigitized: 2006:02:07 05:52:19
exif:DateTimeOriginal: 2006:02:07 05:52:19
And on and on…..
Absolutely, this is strong evidence that by allowing the Israeli government to be trusted in any aspect of the investigation of these high seas crimes will be foolhardy and negligent.
The most recent evidence we have of how the Israeli government deals with crime scenes where American lives have been put in jeopardy is in the ongoing civil suit brought by Rachel Corrie’s family against the Israeli government. Testimony will resume some time – or not. The Israeli government is trying to stop the trial. But so far, here’s some of what has come out that reflects on the ability of the Israeli government or military to conduct honest investigations:
March 24: Military investigator testifies that head of IDF Southern Command instructed bulldozer operator not to cooperate with investigation.
March 15: Eye Witness Testifies: Israeli Military Investigator Tried to Influence My Statement.
March 14: Autopsy doctor admits to violating court order in Rachel Corrie autopsy.
Essentially, aspects of IDF conduct involving their handling of the death of Corrie clearly violate Israeli law, and call for trial, possible conviction and imprisonment of all officers involved:
But now evidence has emerged in the civil suit that Israel’s then Gaza commander obstructed the military police investigation into the circumstances surrounding the death.
The apparent intervention of Major-General Doron Almog, then head of Israel’s southern command, is documented in testimony taken by Israeli military police from the commander of the bulldozer a day after Ms Corrie was killed.
The handwritten affidavit effectively puts the entire state of Israel on trial. Is it willing to tolerate Maj-Gen Almog’s gross interference in the investigation or will it hold him to the three years’ imprisonment the law accords for such an offence?
In the affidavit, the commander of the D-9 tells military police investigators that he did not see Ms Corrie before she was wounded.
However, Alice Coy, now a nurse in Glasgow, and an ISM volunteer activist who was near Ms Corrie during the incident, said in an affidavit to the court that “to the best of my knowledge the bulldozer driver could see Rachel while pushing earth over her body”.
The D-9 commander, a reservist named Edward Valermov, was in the middle of his testimony when a colonel dispatched by Maj-Gen Almog entered the room and ordered him to stop speaking, according to the document.
The military police investigator wrote: “At 18:12 reserve Colonel Baruch Kirhatu entered the room and informed the witness that he should not convey anything and should not write anything and this at the order of the general of southern command.”
In his testimony before he was stopped, Mr Valermov said that the bulldozers, manned by two people, were ordered by their company commander to continue their work despite the presence of the ISM protesters.
He said that troops in an armoured personnel carrier threw stun grenades, used tear gas and fired shots toward the ground in order to scare the protesters away.
“It didn’t help and therefore we decided to continue the work with all possible delicateness on the orders of the company commander,” he added.
Mr Valermov testified that the protesters nearly touched the bulldozers, making it impossible to advance, but that after the company commander’s order “we started moving with the D-9, we continued laying bare the area from all of the things that were there.
“It was only when we moved the D-9 backwards that I saw her. The woman was lying in a place where the instrument had not reached. As soon as we saw the harmed woman we returned to the central corridor, stood and waited for orders.”
Mr Valermov’s last statement before Maj-Gen Almog’s interdiction was, “my job was to guide. The driver cannot guide himself because his field of vision is not large.”
In a phone interview from Olympia, Washington, Rachel’s father Craig Corrie termed Maj-Gen Almog’s intervention in Mr Valermov’s testimony “outrageous”.
Maj-Gen Almog has angrily denied halting Mr Valermov’s testimony.
Moshe Negbi, legal commentator for the state-run Voice of Israel radio, said of Maj-Gen Almog’s interdiction: “If a commander prevents a witness from testifying than it is disruption of an investigation, a criminal offence whose penalty is three years’ imprisonment.”
By deciding Maj-Gen Almog’s fate, Israel will be deciding if it is a state of law or a state of the generals – past and present.
Anyone who thinks the officers involved in the Corrie coverup will be held accountable is a fool. Anyone who thinks that the Israeli government will conduct an impartial investigation of Sunday morning’s tragedy is even more foolish, especially in light of mounting evidence that the Israelis are already disseminating totally false images as examples of some sort of forensic evidence.
It is time to put pressure on our government to demand the truth, rather than accept criminally motivated bullshit and lies.



92 Comments







This seems to be a pattern.
The Iran nuke photos…
The other ships that have been boarded in the past.
Shipping crates (I think Juan Cole has done a number of features on Israel faking evidence before, especially shipping labels.)
Hmmm, has me thinking about Marcy’s Ghorbanifar timeline.
Israel is becoming Forgeries-R-Us.
I hope you’ll go to Wired with this. They can spell Exif, too. Good work. Recommended.
I post some of my stuff elsewhere – Daily Kos, most often, and at my place quite often, of course.
Mondoweiss has picked this up. Their site is down right now, but I picked this story up off of twitter. I never relied upon twitter before this weekend, but I’m finding it to be the most immediate tool available for quick information.
In any case, I have to go to work now.
So the Israelis got caught telling lies just after having committed murder well what a surprise.
reccd
mfi
Great info, thanks
You’ve got a difficult job recently, Jason!
jesus ET, excellent work. rec. fb’d/tweeted
An update on Emily.
The IDF shot, on purpose, a peaceful Jew.
Shot heard round the world.
They kill their own (we know this, we know Mossad has done much worse).
They kill their own, and we must make that known.
The world over.
Great post ET, bless ya man.
This is Amateur hour stuff. Is Mossad letting the Temps run the olace?
IOKIYAIsraeli will surely suffice to cover this mess up.
Lets see how long it takes America Media to cover this story. Is International media covering this yet?
Wow.. Incredible! Good Job ET -I saw your post on the twitter machine.
Egotistical pathological liars always out themselves. This is one more piece in the evidence chain that anything they say cannot be trusted.
I’ve been seeing a lot of writing about the monumental blunders that surround just about everything Israeli defense and intelligence “professionals” touch. Just last week it was an elite army unit spilling secrets on facebook to a fake ID set up by hezb’allah.
From Wapo spyblog.
Israel bananas, and competence
It’s hard to keep up with all those strands in the wicked webs they’ve woven…! ;-)
Hmmm. If this gets tied to Bibi or Avi, it’s essentially an act of war.
It is tied to Bibi…! Seriously…!
I do find it highly ironic for a Mossad agent to be calling Flotilla 13 out… He’s probably still smarting from the Dubai ‘hit’…! ;-)
Who do you think would be smarting? Bibi or Ostrovsky?
Ostrovsky wrote a book after he quit as a warning to Israel to leave him alone.
Not seeing the numbers ET but then again I don’t know what I’m looking for. Not really seeing any weapons either
a few blades teenage boys would have and some steak knives.
If you want a laugh – go to the twenty minute mark and listen to PJ Crowley try to explain how having Israel investigate this will be unbiased.
http://www.c-span.org/Watch/Media/2010/06/01/HP/A/33641/State+Department+Press+Briefing.aspx
Great work, thanks for staying on top of this.
You’re my hero, so Thanks!
Guess Hillary Rodham Clinton will have to find someone else to conduct the ‘full, impartial, independent investigation’ she claims to want of Israel’s high-seas piracy. The IDF has clearly disqualified itself with this fakery.
This is what happened to one of the reporters who kept on trying to send information to the world as the flotilla was captured:
Lucky she wasn’t hurt worse. I wonder when they will let her go. She is one of about 30 reporters who are still being detained.
No word today on Col. Ann Wright.
Wow. Funny how no US network has mentioned that in their evening newscasts.
It would be sad if the Turks get results over what happened on the boat quicker than Rachel’s family. Its hard to say your number 1 when people shine you on like your a chump.
Rachel, the Liberty survivors, America gets no answers but Obama, the Press, the Neocons all say Israel is our best friend.
I think they sound desperate.
Barney Frank just told Tweety that ‘Israel has a long track record of conducting fair investigations’…! *gah*
What track record?
lol. There is a parallel universe occupying DC that is visible to me yet utterly incapable of being reached.
Any American Press from the major networks going on the next boat? Maybe Rush and Glen Beck can shows us
just how safe it is to be attacked by Israeli commandos.
Maybe just this once Greenpeace can let a Japanese Whaler get away with it?
I wonder what Rush’s whale blubber sells for by the pound?
For those who think Israel would never ever fake, doctor, or otherwise misleadingly present “evidence”, I give you The Case of the Curious Diner:
This could be a monty python movie if it wasn’t so tragic.
Oh, lovely. Why doesn’t the Israeli government just stop digging?
(Though it is also possible the reports themselves are faked. There are no crypto-secure fingerprints on the images, as far as I know.)
Great post! I was positive the photo of the knives on the flag was fake, at least as support for the IDF claims.
I want to see photos of commandos’ knife wounds.
Free Gaza is saying Everyone Is NOT Released
…At least four Palestinian/Israelis, Free Gaza Movement board director, Lubna Masarwa, Sheik Raed Salah, leader of the northern branch of the Islamic Movement in Israel, Mohammed Zeidan, Chairperson of the High Fellowship Committee for Arab Citizens of Israel and Hamed abu Dabis are facing multiple serious criminal offences for their participation in a peaceful voyage to break Israel’s blockade of Gaza.
After a full day in court represented by excellent attorneys from Adalah, they were remanded until June 8, evidence of how seriously the situation is for these four human rights workers.
http://www.freegaza.org/en/home/press-releases/1198–magistrates-court-orders-one-week-remand-of-arab-political-leaders-who-took-part-in-the-gaza-freedom-flotilla
LInky, hoss, post linky . . . don’t doubt you, but the linky’s are easily accessed and shared.
MUST have linky’s, hoss . . . bless ya for your inputs and efforts.
Dayam, you’re spoiled…! 8-P
Google ‘Free Gaza’…! ;-)
ET, I would be cautious in claiming “proof” that these photos are faked. Clicking through your first link, I see that several photos have date stamps of January 1, 2003. This suggests to me that for those photos at least, the camera’s calendar might simply never have been set.
What’s truly damning is that the Israelis would attempt to portray so innocuous a collection of merchandise as evidence of hostile intent. If the IDF really wanted to introduce fake photos into the mix, wouldn’t they have used shots of actual scary weapons?
I could be wrong, but I’m skeptical, not of the IDF’s venality but of this specific assertion that these photos have been proven as fake.
Apparently, other sites had had some of these images up before this weekend. More coming out. Just back from work.
I’ve been looking at them too, and the dates are set to the default date on a few of the cameras, so the batteries might have been drained and replaced.
Looking at them raised other questions for me though..If this is “evidence”, why weren’t the photos taken with the objects in situ; why were they gathered up? Shouldn’t they be subject to forensic investigation?
Also, a comment mentioned that the single bloody knife found should not be held by the photographer. He’s destroying or contaminating the evidence.
The so called “weaponized” bullet proof vests.. the symbol is the red crescent – for the international red cross of Turkey and Egypt.
I’m interested in finding out how American military units that are supposed to be trained in taking forensic evidence with digital cameras are taught about the requirements of making sure your time tags are correct so that if you are collecting evidence visually, that both your camera time tag is correct, and that chain-of-custody for the images as evidence are up to snuff. I would imagine that the IDF would receive similar training.
Anyone here who served in a MP unit?
See my comment above; starts at 4 minutes in at this link, todays’ program.
Lawrence of Cyberia has confessed – great snark!
Mondoweiss‘ blog on this issue has some great comments.
The 2003 photographs’ exif data says they were taken in January by a Pentax Optio 550. The 2006 photographs’ exif data say they were taken in Feburary by a Nikon D2Xs. The Pentax Optio 550 was announced in Februrary 2003 and the Nikon D2Xs was announced in June 2006. So both cameras weren’t even released when those pictures were supposedly taken. All this means is that the photographers simply didn’t bother to set the date on their camera correctly.
No doubt these pictures are being used as propaganda. But the fact that that’s all the evidence they could come up with, shows that the photographs are real because they had to try really hard to spin those silly objects as weapons. If they really wanted to fake evidence, they could just as easily used real guns instead of kitchen knives.
Here are links for the announce dates from my previous post.
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0302/03021809pentaxoptio550450.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0606/06060102nikond2xs.asp
Is there any proof that they were taken since the time of the seizure of the vessels?
Can digital images without a correct time stamp be used as evidence in a US court of law, if they were taken by the prosecution?
ET, if you can, please see todays program of Mosaic on Link TV and the IBA broadcast(Israeli national television); you think what your seeing is bad, you simply won’t believe what is being foisted off on the Israeli public; their showing pre-made moltovs and bolt cutters and,well, you gotta see it to believe it.
And the Israeli public will buy it.
This is a rather loaded statement…
“ANKARA: Turkey’s parliament called on the government on Wednesday to review all ties with Israel as the country prepared a huge welcome home for hundreds of Turks detained after Israel’s bloody raid on a Gaza-bound aid flotilla.
Turkey, which has recalled its ambassador from Israel, demanded that Israel lift its blockade of Gaza as a condition of restoring full ties. “The future of ties with Israel will depend on the attitude of Israel,” Turkish foreign minister Ahmet Davutoglu said.
The Turkish parliament held a heated debate on whether to impose sanctions on Israel. But lawmakers from PM Recep Erdogan’s party objected to the measures, apparently trying to avoid aggravating the situation. “
I have every confidence in the Israelis’ capacity and willingness to fabricate evidence.
But bad time-stamping is not “proof” of a faked photo. And it frankly hurts the Israelis’ position more if the photos of innocent crap that they’re whining is “weaponry” are indeed genuine.
good point. See the first link in my #35 or so above for a snarky observation.
Precisely; I’m staring my highly weaponized kitchen as I write. Plus my elderly cat has three teeth left. And my wife’s sharpened sarcasm. There’s no end to the deadly resistance we could mount should commandos storm the compound.
You really must see this! And go back to mondoweiss and read the comments.
Someone links to two videos, says one is fake. The time stamp on it is 22:00 –
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU&feature=player_embedded#
for comparison, there is a cnn video with footage of the same area on the boat. The actual landing time on the ship was 05:00. This video was streamed.
http://edition.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/meast/05/31/gaza.flotilla.israeli.raid/
He has a link to a screenshot jpg of the real video but it doesn’t show the timestamp.
In the “fake” video, the mannerisms are totally different, the lighting is different, the wind and humidity isn’t present, and the sky is black, except at the end the water looks very blue and not same color as in the cnn video. It’s clearly not the same time of day. To top it all off, there are splices in the film. If this was real we would have seen it on the live stream. I was watching that night and I never saw this. They look like hooligans. In the real video, everyone was serious and somber, moved carefully and diligently.
Any digital data can be faked. It’s not straightforward at all to change the embedded EXIF data that relates to the date/time and whether the image has been modified.
DesolationJones and Ralphbon are spot on with their analysis. Camera time stamps are often left at manufacturer settings, which appears to be the case here. The white balance in the photo of the axe shows how inept the photographer was.
While I definitely wouldn’t put it past the Israelis to fake info (though they did manage to use real passports when they pulled off their recent assassination in Qatar), I don’t think it’s reasonable to presume that these photos were faked or more specifically, taken from a different incident and used here to mislead.
The items depicted are, in fact, proof that there were no weapons aboard.
Yeah, I don’t see the purpose of releasing that video as a defense of Israeli actions. A broken bottle? A slingshot? A piece of wood? Yeah, those weapons will work well against helicopter gunships, stun bombs and machine guns.
What the first video says to me is that this little vessel was a piece of Gaza gone to sea.
Let’s say you’re involved in hand-to-hand combat and someone puts a broken bottle to your throat, do think it would work well?
Are you talking about the video of the people chanting about killing Jews? If so, doesn’t that undermine a high-percentage of people claiming these were simply peaceful activists aboard the boats?
Thank you for replying to a reply to my comment. Why don’t you respond to any of the questions I asked and share some light rather than yakking about things you choose not to understand, such as breezes at sea?
For the record, the breeze is usually quite easy to see through it’s impact on the water. Check out the Beaufort Scale. That, however, requires inferential thinking.
Let’s say you are sailing along in international waters drinking a soda and an armed commando drops from the sky onto the deck of your ship. What happens to the bottle? Do you drop it? Do you even remember you are holding it in your hand. What if a flying bullet (or a “paintball”) hits it, will it break? If an Israeli bullet hits the bottle transforming it from innocent civilian bottle to terrorist weapon, would that make the IDF soldier who fired the bullet a terrorist supporter?
And you wonder why your questions don’t get answered.
Hmm, what was it about my original questions that you can’t seem to bring yourself to answer? I asked questions. You imply with your @81 that my questions are somehow illegitimate. I make light of your assertion (in response to someone else’s reply to my comment) that a broken bottle is a weapon in the context of a helicopter gunship and armed commandos, and you take that as a rationale to not respond to prior questions that you already had clearly decided to avoid.
You insulted a previous commenter by saying “You can see a seebreeze? That’s interesting because most people can’t see air.” I bring some experience and facts and a link to the table and you take your toys and go home.
Why don’t you make an honest attempt to respond to the questions? Or even one question?
If you had bothered to view the Mosaic news report link by the Israeli national network IBA that I reference at comment 43 and interview of the al-jazeera cameraman, you would have known why the passengers on the TOP deck acted as they did; it WAS resistance against a pirate act and the law provides for such resistance.
And forget about time stamping; all one has to do is observe what the Israeli government -via it’s own broadcast network- is saying was ‘found’ on the ship regarding weapons; absolutely ridiculous.
And what’s really sad is your complete unwillingness to accept the FACT of the illegality of the blockade in the first place.
That person has taken his toys and gone home.
Funny how he casts all kinds of aspersions (this to SKF…):
Plenty of people, myself included, commented to say that the dates on the EXIF data really don’t prove anything much less that the photos were actively faked. And ET seems to have accepted and acknowledged that. And still, that person attacked and insulted while shedding no light. Add ‘em to your troll list.
I suppose he/she/it might be back later, with a changed screen name.
Probably. Whack a troll is a fun game, no?
:-)
I’m just continually surprised that the Israelis would do this (attack) from an amoral strategic perspective. It doesn’t make any sense and isolates them further as a pariah state. Chipping at the foundation of support of people who might otherwise sympathize with a difficult situation.
Congress should pass a supplemental to send a few kitchen sets from the Martha Stewart Collection to Israel to counter any potential Weapons of Mass Culination. Now that we know what they are up to, we can easily thwart Hamas’s evil culinary plans.
But seriously, the real pictures published were insulting enough. If it’s also true that they are faked, that sounds like Likud screaming that they want to provoke a new war to help keep their party in power.
If that’s what Likud is up to, it makes sense. The pictures are outrageously silly to the rest of the world. Yet here in America…. FOX News will convince viewers of the dangers of radical cuisine. An outright culinary 911 has been thwarted!
Same argument during the first intifada with its stone-throwing children. “Stones can kill!”
@Edward Teller
Witless all around.
Before you leap at a conspiracy theory like a three-year old attacking a bowl of ice cream, do twenty seconds of research. It would have told you some deeply technical issues concerning digital cameras: their internal dates are often wrong for the most sinister reasons, including the fact that people don’t set them and they reset themselves to a default date when the batteries die.
Go check your digital cameras, everyone. If the date is wrong, congratulations! You just proved your three year-old cannot possibly exist because the EXIF data on your camera is telling you the photo was taken four years ago.
Or is it your child? You better start asking your wife about this. And while you’re at it, you better kidnap the mailman, tie him up in your basement and get him to confess that he’s the father of your child. Because it can’t be your child, the EXIF data is wrong. But it could also mean you’re living in some kind of purgatory, just like in Lost.
Of course if an Israeli questioned the authenticity of a Palestinian photo based on EXIF data, you’d be busy Googling away trying to find the reason the date was wrong. And when you found said reason after said twenty seconds of research, you’d post the same kind of snarky thing I’m posting here.
But you’re not interested in getting at the truth. You’re only interested in sensationalistic headlines designed to gin up outrage over ridiculous nonsense such as easily explainable things like incorrect time stamps on digital cameras.
What’s even worse it that you use that less than flimsy premise to talk about the case of Rachel Corrie. I’m not going to mock her like so many knee-jerk pro-Israel morons do. She died doing something she believed in, which is more than I can say for myself or you, hiding behind a laptop and conspiracy theories. But think how you mock what she stood for by standing behind her family’s efforts at getting at the truth when you use her as an excuse to post absolute garbage like this. Does it truly help?
As to the willfully witless folks talking about weapons: the next time someone confronts you swinging an axe or a metal pipe, let’s see if you get into an existential debate with your attacker about its authenticity as a weapon.
I see you’re not too worried about getting to the truth yourself.
Hey, are you aware that the israelis were firing on the ship and killed 2 before repelling from the helicopter?
That’s not an attack, that’s self defense.
Sullivan quotes McArdle:
In raw video, reporters claim Israelis fired on activists before boarding ship
Take a look at the video. the one they are running in a loop on Fox and CNN are a small time slice and don’t show what happened before. Also, ask yourself why all the cameras, cellphones and datacards are being held by Israel. If the incident happened like Israel is representing, why didn’t they return the passengers property when they were released and deported?
I notice you only addressed one point I made, which I might add, you transform into a strawman argument. I simply asked the question as to what any reasonable person would do when confronted by someone swinging an axe or metal pipe at them. I didn’t address the broader issue of who started it. Truthfully, we don’t know at this point.
But if any objective person looks at the video, they can see Israeli soldiers rapelling onto the deck and immediately being set upon by people swinging metal pipes and whatever else was in the photos. There’s also video of these supposed peace activists preparing themselves for a fight (as all true peace activists do). It’s from the security camera on board the Mavi Marmara. And there’s no tear gas in that video. One guy is wearing a gas mask, but the others are clearly not. One is calmly strolling with a video camera to record. The Israelis might have used it later, but it’s self-evident that these ‘peace activists’ were not affected in the slightest by any tear gas.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZlSSaPT_OU
And “the organizers” were telling the reporter about what was happening? Would those be the same organizers who can be seen on video chanting slogans about killing Jews before the flotilla set sail? And if this reporter has to be told about what is going on by these unbiased folks, how can he claim to know who is firing anything or that any white flag was raised?
I know, because these guys told him:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3L7OV414Kk
Oh, wait, those are only participants. Let’s hear this guy talk about the flotilla commander:
http://www.youtube.com/user/palwatch#p/a/u/1/HThF8ft5Cls
Would you knowingly follow these clowns? Would you chant:
“Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad saya’ud.
(Jews, remember Khybar, the army of Mohammed is returning.)
But getting back to the photos: why can’t you admit that Edward Teller is completely full of BS about the conspiracy theory behind the photos? Does it hurt your internal narrative to concede that he could actually be wrong?
That’s the trouble with people like you: you’re so biased you can’t walk yourselves back from the most outlandish of claims. Say you got it wrong, or that you don’t know. It’s not that hard.
As to the Israelis not returning property… I’m not the Israeli government so I can’t speak for them. But I do know that I’d want any recording devices that would substantiate my claims. Like the surveillance footage from the Mavi’s own cameras which show the non-violent, peaceful intent of some of the passengers on the Mavi busily arming themselves. That being said, I’m sure there were actual peace activist on board. But they probably didn’t bargain for being on a boat with people who sing about killing Jews and talk of becoming martyrs for Islam.
WWSKFD? Join in the chants? Look the other way? Speak up? Or just post stuff about it on a message board with nothing more at stake than an electric bill?
The first video you linked, I reference in my comment above. i believe that is fake. I’ve never seen it. It doesn’t look like anything I saw that night.
The others, I don’t know where they came from. Do you?
It’s believed that the mossad was aboard at one time or another and may have infiltrated the group. Two of the ships had their steering mechanisms sabotaged. If that is the case, then sourcing and chain of custody is even more important.
Israel, Britain, and the US have been busted falsifying media evidence in last few years. Remember the jessica lynch commando rescue video, and also a picture of the gps unit – the digital readout of the location of the ship that was siezed, along with the british sailors in Iranian waters. fake. They got the angles wrong when they photoshopped the new coordinates onto the pic and did a lousy job of blurring the cuts.
And 3rd, the “proof” that Israel provided, that smoking gun that found iran provided the weapons that israel seized in the Mediterranean sea last year.. The Iranian dept had it’s name changed years before.
Sucks to be them in this internet age. They aren’t the crack spies they once were and are no match for crowd sourcing the investigation. Maybe our government should start by telling the truth.
I did not set up a strawman, I dealt with yours, and your condescension towards ET was really uncalled for. You don’t know who he is, obviously.
You’re obviously a bit wacky, but…
The reason you didn’t see the video in question that night is because — as I clearly said — it’s from the Mavi Marmara’s security camera.
Did you have access to that camera on the night in question? Was that camera being streamed to the world?
You didn’t. So anything you didn’t have access to you think is fake? And everyone you saw moving seriously and somberly… that video is from a completely different part of the ship. Two distinct, separate physical spaces tend to be different. But maybe not in your world.
I also wasn’t aware humidity had a color than can be gauged on video. Then again, in your world…
It’s interesting to see what you inspire, Edward. I hope you look into these serious issues Frogs has raised.
You just can have a dialog without leave the personal insults behind can you?
Yup, what wasn’t streamed, and israel has had custody of, and clearly has been doctored is not reliable evidence.
The atmosphere is different in the two videos.They are in same location, but are at the end of the CNN video and you can see seabreeze.and the lighting differences. If you can’t see the difference, you aren’t looking. There are many videos of the reporters speaking, and other cameras around the ship.
The time stamp is wrong. The people were already arrested at that time. What part don’t you understand?
I’m not looking to confirm my bias. I want the truth. Seems you are willing to trust the israelis. I’m not. They are liars.
You can see a seebreeze? That’s interesting because most people can’t see air.
And seriously (@61), where did Jaish-e-Mohammed enter the conversation? If you’re talking about what the people in the video I posted are chanting, that’s a well-known Islamic battle cry celebrating the defeat of the Jews by Mohammed at Khaybar in 629. But the group that (likely) takes its name from that chant hasn’t been mentioned by anyone, anywhere.
But what the heck, even though they have exactly zero relevance to anything being discussed, throw them into the mix.
condensation on the lens reflects light. Did you watch the videos? Any of them? Or do you just prefer to argue with your strawmen?
I’m done with you.
Of course you are. You’re now reduced to debating about how condensation reflects light.
And about Jaish Muhammed, you brought up that group, not me. As I made clear I was talking about the battle cry that uses those words.
Khaybar Khaybar ya yahud, Jaish Muhammad saya’ud.
Translation: Jews, remember Khybar, the army of Muhammed is returning.
Jaish Muhammed means the army of Muhammed. Did Jaish-e-Muhammed file a copyright on those words? Is it likely they’ll sue those people on the boats for chanting it?
And no worries. I’m done with you, too. Anyone who can’t even admit they condemn that type of rhetoric is not worth debating.
And where do you get the idea that anyone on the flotilla was chanting that?
If they were chanting ‘Sh’ma Yisroel’, would you assume they were members of the IDF?
Thereby proving that you aren’t thinking.
Breezes mean flags waving, smoke blowing, waves on water: MOTION. Whether the air is visible or not is irrelevant.
You are certainly quick to launch insults. It undermines your case. How about providing some light instead of blowing smoke. Why don’t you point to evidence adduced by the flotilla that shows they don’t have their ducks all in a row. Which, if nothing else, is exactly what this photo kerfuffle shows about the Israeli effort.
~Could you please explain why all recording media were confiscated? Including from acknowledged and identified media who were known to the Israelis to be on board?
~Could you explain how confiscating media ensures that the truth comes out and doesn’t, in fact, support claims that Israel is faking evidence?
~Could you point us to clear evidence establishing that these media have been returned unaltered?
~Could you explain why communications were jammed? And how that is not a separate hostile act?
~Could you explain how the flotilla initiated hostilities when it was in international waters?
~Could you explain how the IDF was only defending itself when the beat-downs of soldiers were administered aboard Turkish ships?
O, my… you haven’t considered that you are watching propaganda have you?
palwatch? And you take that hateful site seriously?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jaish-e-Mohammed
Jaish-e-Mohammed (Urdu: جيش محمد, literally The Army of Mohammad, transliterated as Jaish-e-Muhammed, Jaish-e-Mohammad or Jaish-e-Muhammad, often abbreviated as JeM) is a major Islamic mujahedeen organization based in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan.[1] The group’s primary motive is to separate Kashmir from India and it has carried out several attacks primarily in Indian-administered Kashmir.[2][3] It has been banned in Pakistan since 2002, yet continues to operate several facilities in Pakistan.[4]
Are jews are inhabiting kashmir or Medina?
Turks don’t have a problem with these guys do they? Because that’s who was on the ship. A bunch of Turks, and other people. 700 were on this flotilla from all over. Upstanding people that wouldn’t be associated with religious nuts like that, and many have spoken out since they were released. Those “weaponizied” bullet proof vests have the red crescent.. you know.. the red cross symbol.
Seriously, I doubt a bunch of hell bent jihadists would be delivering aid to gaza to with a boat full of humanitarians. They might prefer to go straight to the enemy.
One more point for you to consider. One of the crew was shot in the head, and it was the crew that fought the commandos. If it were any other besides a Western country or Israel, they would be given medals.
Obviously you haven’t read the thread or my previous comments.
Here: shekissesfrogs .. @34
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/52394#comment-200670
Now look who’s biased…
Your points are all about avoiding the following points:
– The flotilla was attacked in international waters
– The Israeli commandos had far better weapons (helicopters, automatic weapons, tear gas, smoke grenades, pepper spray, tasers, etc.) than did the people defending their flotilla (standard boat equipment like wrenches and pipes and their bare hands)
– The Israelis kept firing even after at least two people on the flotilla were already dead and the survivors were waving the white flag (this was before the IDF video was shot, by the way; think maybe that Turkish crewmembers who’d just watched their buddies die might be a little pissed off at the commandos who murdered them?)
– The first thing the Israelis did after taking the flotilla was to confiscate all electronic media — cameras, computers, SD cards, etc. — capable of recording and transmitting anything that might contradict or undermine the IDF’s approved storyline.
– The Israelis have been known to fudge visual evidence — here’s the most recent (pre-flotilla-massacre) example:
Please see my #40 above, posted before your remarks. I am interested, at this point, in:
1) Whether or not MP units or American military units who are trained in gathering digital images, are trained in the values of time/date stamps.
2) What level of chain-of-custody is required in American military investigations for digital images to be used as evidence.
3) Whether any digital images provided so far by the IDF have actual date stamps from the time after the attacks on the convoy.
4) Whether digital images with obviously false time stamps should even be considered as evidence.
Seminal diaries, after a certain point in time, unlike Daily Kos diaries for instance, cannot be modified or updated in the body of the article itself. If that were possible, I would have updated the headline and body of this article to reflect things I have learned in the comments.
Frankly, you have added nothing of value to this discussion.
Indeed.
Again, as for the EXIF data, I think it’s a red herring other than showing that the israeli operation isn’t quite as tight as it might be (if you need evidence beyond dead civilians that is). In a prosecution context I iimagine that they would attest that the photos were accurate depictions of what they saw. Though, defense could point to that data to confuse a jury…and here we have the jury of world opinion, which is becoming increasingly unwilling to take an occupier’s word, especially when it involves conflict between the US/Israel and Muslim populations.
Thanks ET for all you’re doing. (And I know I don’t have to tell you…as truth rises to the surface, those who cling to the lies…panic. Waitomo is in “fight or flight” response mode. It’s what happens when that “Loyalty to the Clan” stuff is central to one’s identity.)
Lots of people “waking up” across the world and uncovering the deceptions. It’s making a difference.
You, obviously, are one of those people.
Most respectful regards to you. (And regards to Waitomo, too. No doubt having a hard time with all of the unraveling that’s occurring.)
P.S. Just one observation re: the debate about the date/time stamp: If I were a member of the IDF on a mission like this – one being watched closely by the entire world, one that would be parsed over and over again by heads of state, media pundits, and investigative bloggers, and one that was obviously going to have serious implications for all things moving forward – me thinks I would have at least taken the time to adjust the date/time stamp on any camera or digital equipment being put in use to record a critical event such as this. (Just sayin’…)
Oh, exactly.
Which in a way reflects even worse on these crack commandos, supposedly the world’s best, than would outright timestamp fraud.
In a criminal case if a witness is shown to have lied once then the jury can infer that everything else he has said is also a lie.
Right now we are debating if photos with the wrong timestamp are proof that Israel faked the photos or made a mistake.
The thing is thanks to the mistake I do not see how those photos get into evidence now for Israel.
But can we prove that the photos were faked if so then we can use the photos to show Israel lies and nothing they say can be trusted.
If not we have plenty of other lies we can use to discredit Israel’s testimony.
Tell me is their anything about the Israeli story about what happened that is true?
Check out the videos. The time stamp on them are not wrong.
from mondoweiss
The photos, I believe are real, but the “scary” Youtube video is fake.
And the day after the massacre, three more people in Gaza died from an Israeli airstrike in retaliation for two rockets that somebody (not the three people who died) had fired from inside Gaza and which had landed harmlessly in open areas.
They’ve only had 10 people die from rockets from Gaza since 2000.
That is not defense or security, that’s revenge against the population, or the “price tag” as the settlers put it.
If Netanyahu wanted peace the flotilla massacre wouldn’t have happened, nor the bombing. Being a terrifying bully is a winning strategy obviously. Just look at the bantustans in the WB, and the new warsaw ghetto in gaza. What does Israel want that they don’t already have?
What no comment about the Beaufort Scale?
well done, great job.
Here is a link to something you don’t see on CNN, an Israeli MP’s account of the incident. Interviewed by Russian TV. The MP tells a much different story of that of IDF, apparently she was on the ship herself!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1sH_RE4CY0