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A lot is happening in the eastern Mediterranean Sea this week and weekend. Boats, ships and fleets are coming and going. Friday, the biggest U.S. Naval task force in decades passed out of the Med through the Suez Canal, on its way to the Persian Gulf:
More than twelve United States Naval warships and at least one Israeli ship crossed the Suez Canal towards the Red Sea on Friday, British Arabic Language newspaper Al-Quds Al-Arabi reported Saturday.
According to the report, thousands of Egyptian soldiers were deployed along the Suez Canal guarding the ships’ passage, which included a U.S. aircraft carrier.
The Suez Canal is a strategic Egyptian waterway which connects between the Mediterranean Sea and the Red Sea.
According to eyewitnesses, the U.S. battleships [sic] were the largest to have crossed the Canal in many years, Al-Quds reported.
And in the Eastern Mediterranean itself, the Lebanese contingent of the next flotilla is leaving port today and tomorrow, headed first to Cyprus, and then on to Gaza, or to its likely confrontation with the Israeli Navy:
Some 50 Christian and Muslim Lebanese women as well as foreigners are preparing to leave Lebanon on Sunday on board of the Miriam.
The group of women, who announced that they do not belong to any political group, will sail from the northern Lebanese port city of Tripoli to Cyprus and then to Gaza, between June 23 and 25.
The ship, which will be loaded with medical supplies for cancer patients, would be the latest bid to break Israel’s four-year blockade of the Hamas-ruled territory.
On Thursday, Defense Minister Ehud Barak warned the Lebanese government that it would be held responsible for ships sailing from Lebanon to the Gaza Strip, Israel Radio reported.
Samar al-Hajj, who is organizing the Miriam voyage to Gaza, thanked Israel "for its threats which only strengthened these women’s willpower to make the trip. I tell the Israelis we are not afraid and we are going on with our plans."
When the IDF boarded the MV Mavi Marmara in late May, the Turkish government registered protests, but took no military action. Since then, although the Turks have voiced interest in issuing naval protection to any new forays by Turkish-flagged vessels, there doesn’t appear to be any gathering of warships from their navy.
The Mossad-connected news source, Debka File, reports today that it may be likely, should the IDF intercept and board the Lebanese flotilla, Hizbollah will react with rocket attacks upon Israel, from across the southern Lebanese border:
Officers of Hizballah’s Iranian-trained marine arm and surface rocket units were sighted Saturday, June 19, going in an out of the small Lebanese Navy’s bases in Beirut and Juniya. DEBKAfile’s intelligence sources report the Lebanese army and Hizballah are pooling their military resources to be ready for any Israeli action against Lebanese ships heading for Gaza.
The tiny Lebanese Navy, no more than a handful of fast coastal guard boats, has been placed on alert, as have Hizballah’s coastal rocket positions. The Shiite terrorist group has also deployed marines in Beirut harbour against a possible Israeli naval commando raid.
Lebanese ship or ships bound for Gaza are potentially a more dangerous spark for a regional conflagration than even the convoys Ankara and Tehran – although all of them are pledged to the same mission of busting the Israeli blockade of Gaza and may mount a concerted assault.All three are clearly coordinated: The two-ship Lebanese convoy planning to sail 70 women from different countries to Gaza is funded by Yasser Qaslaq, a Palestinian who in the guise of a Lebanese businessman acts as money courier between Tehran, Hizballah and extremist Palestinian organizations.
Israel’s UN ambassador Gabriela Shalev warned Secretary General Ban Ki-moon that Israel reserves the right to use "all necessary means" to stop the Lebanese boats. Attempts to sail from Lebanon, which maintains a state of war with Israel, she said, would raise regional tensions.
But instead of dealing with the mounting crisis, Ban again demanded that Israel accept an international investigation of its raid of a Turkish ship on May 31 and the nine deaths aboard.
Anxious to keep its head down, Hizballah claimed Saturday that it was not involved in the Lebanese flotilla, thereby trying to pass the buck to Beirut and Jerusalem. But its spokesmen pointedly avoided a guarantee to stay out of it if the Israel navy boarded Lebanese ships. The Iranian-backed terrorists, who in the name of "resistance" maintain a separate armed force armed with advanced weapons in violation of several UN Security Council resolutions, could not stand aside if Beirut accused Israel of an act of war.
The first Lebanese boat heading out for Gaza waters therefore holds the potential of scuppering the Lebanese-Israel truce under the UN Security Council Resolution which cut short the 2006 war, required the Hizballah militia to disarm, and posted UN-flagged German, Spanish and Italian naval units opposite Lebanon’s Mediterranean coast.Their mission was – and is – to prevent Hizballah receiving weapons smuggled by sea or taking up an active presence in Lebanese ports and anchorages. However, the peacekeepers have never proved able to stop Hizballah building up one of the biggest rocket and missile arsenal in the Middle East – by sea and by land.
Today, the Lebanese army is reverting to its 2006 collaboration with Lebanon that permitted Hizballah missile teams to use its coastal radar stations to fire the Silkworm C-802 missiles which crippled the Israeli Hanit missile boat.
That’s the Debka File, which is often used by the Mossad or IDF to plant the seeds of paranoia. However, the situation, especially should the Iranians, Lebanese, Turks and Europeans unite before making a run to the Gaza coast, is fraught with potential danger. The reality in the eastern Mediterranean, come mid-week, might be rather different from that of the MV Mavi Marmara-MV Rachel Corrie episodes of late May and early June.
Although it is difficult to see other changes in the political climate concerning the international community’s regard for the Israeli government from the vantage point of reading or watching U.S. media these past three weeks, the climate in Europe has changed markedly. Yesterday, the Israelis refused to grant permission to a German cabinet member to visit Gaza to see what needs to be done to restore sewage treatment facilities to the besieged enclave:
German Development Aid Minister Dirk Niebel was denied entry into the Gaza Strip during his current visit to Israel, German officials said Saturday evening.
A ministry spokesman said talks had continued to the last moment with Israeli officials over Niebel’s aim to visit the Palestinian areas.
Niebel, who arrived in Israel earlier Saturday, had hoped to visit a sewage treatment plant being financed with German development aid.
Speaking on the second German TV network ZDF program"heute" (today) Saturday evening, Niebel expressed his anger about being denied entry.
"I would have wished for a clear political signal would be sent for an opening and for transparency," said Niebel, of Germany’s liberal Free Democratic Party (FDP).
"Sometimes the Israeli government does not make it easy for its friends to explain why it behaves the way it does," he added.
Niebel said that Israel’s latest announcement on easing the Gaza blockade was "not sufficient" and that Israel must "now deliver" on its pledge.
Beyond that, the government in Jerusalem should be "clear about how Israel, within an international context, wants to cooperate with
its friends in the future as well," the German minister said.Earlier Saturday, the daily Sueddeutsche Zeitung reported that the German parliament is to issue a cross-party demand that Israel allow humanitarian aid to reach the Gaza Strip by sea.
As if to underline Niebel’s statements about Israeli "transparency," in another development between the Israeli and German governments, the Germans have refused to acquiesce to an Israeli demand that they not extradite Mossad operative Uri Brodsky from Poland to Germany, for Brodsky’s role in illegally acquiring German passports for use by the Mossad Dubai hit team last January. So much for the Israelis being able to keep their fingerprints off of that keystone cops episode, eh?
The German government has said it will not intervene to stop an investigation into a suspected Mossad spy linked to the assassination of a Hamas official in Dubai, despite pressure from Israel, a German newspaper reported on Saturday.
A German official told Der Spiegel his ministry was united in the belief that any investigation into Uri Brodsky should be "dealt with according to purely judicial considerations".
Brodsky, who was wanted by German authorities, was arrested on June 4 at an airport in the Polish capital Warsaw, provoking strong protests from Israeli diplomats. He is suspected of helping to procure a German passport for the killers of Mahmoud al-Mabhouh, assassinated in a Dubai hotel room on January 19.
But despite Israel’s demands, Germany will not invoke a law citing "overwhelming public interest" to halt the investigation into Brodsky’s role in the killing.
The German government has asked Poland to extradite Brodsky for trial in Germany, something Israel had sought to prevent.
This is going to be a terrible summer for Israeli diplomacy, perhaps the worst since the Sinai invasion of 1956. Perhaps, even more than the 1973 Yom Kippur War, the 1956 Anglo-French-Israeli invasion of the Sinai and seizure of the Suez Canal from Egypt had the potential to end in an out-of-control scenario:
The operation, aimed at taking the Suez Canal, was highly successful from a military point of view but was a political disaster as a result of external forces. Along with the Suez crisis, the United States was also dealing with the near-simultaneous Hungarian revolution, and decided it could not criticise Hungary’s suppression of the revolutionaries and simultaneously avoid opposing its two principal European allies’ actions. The United States also feared a wider war after the Soviet Union threatened to intervene on the Egyptian side and make rocket attacks on Britain, France and Israel. Despite having no commercial or military interest in the area, many countries were concerned with what might be a growing rift between Western allied nations.
Nasser requested help from the USA on November 1, without requesting Russian assistance, and was at first skeptical of the efficacy of US diplomatic efforts at the UN, but later gave full credit to Eisenhower’s role in stopping the war.
With reports of more groups preparing for more future flotillas, one might ask, "How many of these will occur before something really bad happens, or the Israelis, somehow, do the right thing for a change – whatever that might be?"
The late Abba Eban is often misquoted as having said "The Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity." He actually used the term "Arabs," not "Palestinians." One can’t help wondering, though, as we watch Israel begin to come more and more unhinged and unglued, how many more opportunities the Israelis will have to miss to act humanely, before they truly do become a full-fledged pariah state.
The Lebanese should be very careful. They are Israel’s favorite target.
179 Comments
Thank you, ET, for keeping up with this “situation” in the ME. Crunch time is coming – just a matter of when.
Israeli Military Seeks Recruits In US
Dehumanizing their enemies is strategic – if Palestinians are perceived as animals, then it’s easier for soldiers to justify killing them:
1. “There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy.” Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001
2. “The Palestinians are like crocodiles, the more you give them meat, they want more”…. Ehud Barak, Prime Minister of Israel at the time – August 28, 2000. Reported in the Jerusalem Post August 30, 2000
3. ” [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs.” Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts”. New Statesman, 25 June 1982.
4. “The Palestinians” would be crushed like grasshoppers … heads smashed against the boulders and walls.” ” Isreali Prime Minister (at the time) in a speech to Jewish settlers New York Times April 1, 1988
5. “When we have settled the land, all the Arabs will be able to do about it will be to scurry around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle.” Raphael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defence Forces, New York Times, 14 April 1983.
6. “How can we return the occupied territories? There is nobody to return them to.” Golda Maier, March 8, 1969.
7. “There was no such thing as Palestinians, they never existed.” Golda Maier Israeli Prime Minister June 15, 1969
8. “The thesis that the danger of genocide was hanging over us in June 1967 and that Israel was fighting for its physical existence is only bluff, which was born and developed after the war.” Israeli General Matityahu Peled, Ha’aretz, 19 March 1972.
9. David Ben Gurion (the first Israeli Prime Minister): “If I were an Arab leader, I would never sign an agreement with Israel. It is normal; we have taken their country. It is true God promised it to us, but how could that interest them? Our God is not theirs. There has been Anti – Semitism, the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault ? They see but one thing: we have come and we have stolen their country. Why would they accept that?” Quoted by Nahum Goldmann in Le Paraddoxe Juif (The Jewish Paradox), pp121.
10. Ben Gurion also warned in 1948 : “We must do everything to insure they ( the Palestinians) never do return.” Assuring his fellow Zionists that Palestinians will never come back to their homes. “The old will die and the young will forget.”
11. “We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
12. “Every time we do something you tell me America will do this and will do that . . . I want to tell you something very clear: Don’t worry about American pressure on Israel. We, the Jewish people, control America, and the Americans know it.” – Israeli Prime Minister, Ariel Sharon, October 3, 2001, to Shimon Peres, as reported on Kol Yisrael radio. (Certainly the FBI’s cover-up of the Israeli spy ring/phone tap scandal suggests that Mr. Sharon may not have been joking.)
13. “We declare openly that the Arabs have no right to settle on even one centimeter of Eretz Israel… Force is all they do or ever will understand. We shall use the ultimate force until the Palestinians come crawling to us on all fours.” Rafael Eitan, Chief of Staff of the Israeli Defense Forces – Gad Becker, Yediot Ahronot 13 April 1983, New York Times 14 April 1983.
14. “We must do everything to ensure they [the Palestinian refugees] never do return” David Ben-Gurion, in his diary, 18 July 1948, quoted in Michael Bar Zohar’s Ben-Gurion: the Armed Prophet, Prentice-Hall, 1967, p. 157.
15. “We should prepare to go over to the offensive. Our aim is to smash Lebanon, Trans-Jordan, and Syria. The weak point is Lebanon, for the Moslem regime is artificial and easy for us to undermine. We shall establish a Christian state there, and then we will smash the Arab Legion, eliminate Trans-Jordan; Syria will fall to us. We then bomb and move on and take Port Said, Alexandria and Sinai.” David Ben-Gurion, May 1948, to the General Staff. From Ben-Gurion, A Biography, by Michael Ben-Zohar, Delacorte, New York 1978.
16. “We must use terror, assassination, intimidation, land confiscation, and the cutting of all social services to rid the Galilee of its Arab population.” Israel Koenig, “The Koenig Memorandum”
17. “Jewish villages were built in the place of Arab villages. You do not even know the names of these Arab villages, and I do not blame you because geography books no longer exist. Not only do the books not exist, the Arab villages are not there either. Nahlal arose in the place of Mahlul; Kibbutz Gvat in the place of Jibta; Kibbutz Sarid in the place of Huneifis; and Kefar Yehushua in the place of Tal al-Shuman. There is not a single place built in this country that did not have a former Arab population.” Moshe Dayan, address to the Technion, Haifa, reported in Haaretz, April 4, 1969.
18. “We walked outside, Ben-Gurion accompanying us. Allon repeated his question, What is to be done with the Palestinian population?’ Ben-Gurion waved his hand in a gesture which said ‘Drive them out!’” Yitzhak Rabin, leaked censored version of Rabin memoirs, published in the New York Times, 23 October 1979.
19. Rabin’s description of the conquest of Lydda, after the completion of Plan Dalet. “We shall reduce the Arab population to a community of woodcutters and waiters” Uri Lubrani, PM Ben-Gurion’s special adviser on Arab Affairs, 1960. From “The Arabs in Israel” by Sabri Jiryas.
20. “There are some who believe that the non-Jewish population, even in a high percentage, within our borders will be more effectively under our surveillance; and there are some who believe the contrary, i.e., that it is easier to carry out surveillance over the activities of a neighbor than over those of a tenant. [I] tend to support the latter view and have an additional argument:…the need to sustain the character of the state which will henceforth be Jewish…with a non-Jewish minority limited to 15 percent. I had already reached this fundamental position as early as 1940 [and] it is entered in my diary.” Joseph Weitz, head of the Jewish Agency’s Colonization Department. From Israel: an Apartheid State by Uri Davis, p.5.
21. “Everybody has to move, run and grab as many hilltops as they can to enlarge the settlements because everything we take now will stay ours… Everything we don’t grab will go to them.” Ariel Sharon, Israeli Foreign Minister, addressing a meeting of militants from the extreme right-wing Tsomet Party, Agence France Presse, November 15, 1998.
22. “It is the duty of Israeli leaders to explain to public opinion, clearly and courageously, a certain number of facts that are forgotten with time. The first of these is that there is no Zionism, colonialization or Jewish State without the eviction of the Arabs and the expropriation of their lands.” Yoram Bar Porath, Yediot Aahronot, of 14 July 1972.
23. “Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment… Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.” Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine,Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry.
24. “One million Arabs are not worth a Jewish fingernail.” — Rabbi Yaacov Perrin, Feb. 27, 1994 [Source: N.Y. Times, Feb. 28, 1994, p. 1]
25. “We Jews, we are the destroyers and will remain the destroyers. Nothing you can do will meet our demands and needs. We will forever destroy because we want a world of our own.” (You Gentiles, by Jewish Author Maurice Samuels, p. 155).
26. “We will establish ourselves in Palestine whether you like it or not…You can hasten our arrival or you can equally retard it. It is however better for you to help us so as to avoid our constructive powers being turned into a destructive power which will overthrow the world.” (Chaim Weizmann, Published in “Judische Rundschau,” No. 4, 1920)
Yaakov Kroll seems to be somewhat opposite of Emily Henochowicz.
Unfortunately, Emily took a real bullet, not Yaakov’s imaginary one.
and on and on and on
Sooner or later Israel is going to do something even more churlish, offensive, and stupid than the 9 premeditated murders of unarmed people on a mission of mercy, and when it does, all hell is going to bust loose.
Obama appears unwilling to lift a finger to reign in Israel’s insane government, proving one more time that he’s completely incompetent.
And so on and so on…
Do you work for Myrav Wurmser at CAMERA?
Please try to remain civil, my friends.
Didn’t you call me a Mossad agent on another thread? Make up your mind!
[flies away in black helicopter]
Actually, no, I didn’t. Did you assume I was speaking of you? I didn’t mention anyone specific, but you just did.
You busted me good that time!
You wouldn’t know a Mossad agent if he/she were talking to you right now! They’re sneaky little bastards and you have to watch them like hawks.
I wonder if this all-female flotilla will make a difference. When the first flotilla was followed by the second, the image came into my head from the movie Gandhi of the endless stream of beatings from the Great Salt March. One after another beaten down. In both cases, had they happened without any media coverage, I doubt the ‘morality’ of the occupier alone would be existant enough to end the abominations. In the case of India, British morality, and its inability to confront nonviolent resistence with violence is a commonly held view of adding to the speed of their giving India up. When confronted by an Israeli army who bets among themselves who can ‘pick off’ that kid first, morality is a longshot.
No it won’t. Israel and International Law..oxymoron.
******************
“Lebanon aid ship Miriam to set sail to Gaza Sunday; Israel’s UN envoy says Israel will use all necessary means to prevent ships from violating the naval blockade on Gaza.
“Gabriela Shalev sent a letter to Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon warning that the attempt by the organizers to sail from Lebanon and deliver humanitarian aid to Gaza could escalate tensions and affect peace and security in the region.
“Israel reserves its right under international law to use all necessary means to prevent these ships from violating the existing naval blockade imposed on the Gaza Strip,” Shalev wrote. ”
http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/israel-to-un-we-reserve-the-right-to-stop-lebanon-gaza-bound-flotilla-1.297012
Those are probably the feelings of Rahm Emanuel, Joe Lieberman, Anthony Weiner, Hillary Clinton, and any number of Israeli agents in the US.
“Prisoners were led in groups to a distance of 200 metres aside and there they were shot. Soldiers would come to the commander-in-chief and say, ‘My cousin was killed in the war.’ His commander heard that and instructed the troops to take a group of five to seven people aside and execute them. Then a soldier came and said his brother had died in one of the battles. For one brother the retribution was higher. The commander ordered the troops to take a larger group and they were shot, and so on.”
– Ilan Pappe, The Ethnic Cleansing of Palestine, p. 135.
Try visiting http://www.palestineremembered.com to get away from the Israeli myths.
It was mentioned on another thread a few days ago that Saudi Arabia had cleared Israel to fly over its airspace in order to bomb Iranian targets. I think the link went to the Guardian. If that’s true, that ups the ante pretty high. In addition to everything else going on.
how many more hideous feathers do they need before they become full fledged?
replacing myths with other myths isn’t an improvement.
Now this is a real beauty:
“When confronted by an Israeli army who bets among themselves who can ‘pick off’ that kid first, morality is a longshot.”
Obviously I had materially overestimated your own sense of self-respect, self-worth, and personal dignity. Won’t do that again. Welcome to hell, I am sure you will find comfort among your fellow, self-loathing travellers there.
rather cryptic.
One shot – two kills
I’m glad you brought up the inaccuracy of those quotes. Thanks.
Maybe you might want to have a go at this section from Philip Giraldi’s latest (multiple HTML links in the original:
Sounds like a line from the movie ‘The Sniper’ and sounds like it should remain there.
So it’s legitimate to make up quotes and put them in the mouths of Israeli politicians?
I’m not sure he knew that those statements in comment #3 are highly disputed. I’ve never used any of them since I learned some were suspect, about five years ago. There’s more than enough real evidence of Israeli ethnic cleansing and racism. Like every day.
replacing hasbara lies and fallacious apologies for State Terror with fact based, reality based concern for the lives and dignity of other human beings most definitely is an improvement.
yes it would be.
Pappe’s book is just more bullshit, though.
I didn’t make that up. Israeli troops when stationed in Gaza used to bet among themselves on shooting kids.
Dogs in Gaza, at night would bark when Israeli troops were around, but didn’t bark when Palestinians were around. It’s not that the dogs were night-vision geniuses. It was the scent of meat in the diets of the Israelis. There’s a million little horrible details about lives under that military occupation.
http://domino.un.org/pdfs/AAC25ComTechW3.pdf
Pappe’s book is well resourced and uses Ben-Gurion’s diaries along with archival material laying out in plain language what was going to be done to the villages ersatz Israel wanted and how the people would be treated.
All Israel’s dirty laundry will come out someday just like ours. Maybe not in my lifetime but I’m gonna make sure my kids and grandkids know right now what’s being done so they can recognize it when it comes here.
The Israeli’s like to use sneak attacks I bet they attack Hizbollah first before the supply boat launches before Hizbollah is ready.
Once Israel is an active war zone they can block any peace supply ship from coming through.
Israel will try and capture rockets they say can hit Israel as proof the war was justified.
Israel will be pissed if Hizbollah manages to launch even one rocket but I bet they are willing to accept the losses.
I wonder if they will try out the new American bunker buster bombs I’ve been hearing about.
I tried to get Mac to be more specific in his critique of Pappe’s work in an earlier diary. Maybe we’ll get some real answers here, eh?
This diary is about how potentially dangerous this upcoming flotilla scenario is compared to the earlier ones. I may have written as many articles about these flotillas as anyone in the blogosphere.
Far more interested this evening in catching up on one of my favorite subjects – the growing evidence of interbreeding between Neanderthals and what we call humans. The Panda’s Thumb has been keeping up on this.
Israel needs a long war the longer the better because then no peace ships can come through without expecting Israel to fire on them or if they are lucky search them.
Also no Israeli leader or solder can be expected to give testimony in an international investigation can they?
Israel needs this coming war to be long and brutal enough to make people forget the peace ships.
A quick victory would only delay things.
I was walking behind 2 Israeli soldiers in Jerusalem, in the Muslim Quarter of the Old City. They were walking shoulder to shoulder. The outside one had his rifle slung on a strap around his body, with the butt projecting out a ways. They passed a woman and her little daughter. The butt smacked the daughter in the head, and as she was about to let out a wail, her mother slapped her own hand across the daughter’s mouth to silence her, and continued walking. She didn’t want to draw the attention of the soldiers. The soldiers I was walking behind saw it and laughed among themselves as they continued walking. It took all of 4 seconds.
Hizbollah is not involved in the Lebanese Gaza relief efforts, if reputable published reports are to be believed. They really don’t need to be, as there are many Lebanese with no contacts with Hizbollah, who have multiple reasons to want to diminish Israeli power in the region.
OT — Out of curiosity, what level do the aggression and disrespect in a personal remark have to rise to for a comment to be considered mod’able? Because there are some pretty vile ad hominems in here today.
At this diary? Seems pretty calm to me.
http://www.meforum.org/1886/the-ethnic-cleansing-of-palestine
Why is the US moving warships out of the Med? Are military exercises planned somewhere?
Not 1948, but this week.
I read Seth Frantzman’s review when it came out. He’s written elsewhere about Pappe and TECoP. It is probably the least hysterical of the reviews critical of the book. But it is as polemical as is Pappe. And then some. Pappe’s writing style is klutzy, Frantzman’s is somewhat elegant. The latter is a good writer and his very conservative critiques and reviews are always interesting.
But his review fails to rebut Pappe’s claim that Plan D evolved into what was finally implemented in March 1948 in a way distinct from the old narrative, or that of new historians like Benny Morris. Which is what you and I were discussing before. Pappe’s view on how this evolved is no less authoritative than any other view out there.
Frantzman’s “context” issues rile me. IIRC, he’s written elsewhere (looking for link) that oral history interviews, such as Pappe used, are inaccurate. They can be, but, living in Alaska, where Native cultures are under siege, I know how important oral histories are when it comes to keeping traditions and tribal memories alive. That very practice, in centuries of besieged communities, is part of what makes Judaism such a richly fascinating faith.
You’re right, this one is better than the other blockade diaries today.
Relying on oral narrative for recent events rather than using it for centuries-old stuff has to be considered very carefully, ET.
I’m sure that you understand the problem.
Not OT it depends on the Mod but if the trolls get things heated then the Mods go after everyone to calm things down even regulars.
They might be doing something related to the effort to curb the Somali piracy problem.
I haven’t read Pappe and so have no opinion on the work, but Frantzman’s position in that review — essentially that his interpretation and weighting of the context facts is valid and P’s is not — is not particularly persuasive. Specifically, there is not a strong showing there that F is any less biased or arbitrary in his interpretations than P is. To pick just one cherry of an example, “The Zionist decision to seize land to deny Arab attackers strategic territorial advantages was inevitable and motivated by legitimate military considerations” is the product of an awful lot of fact interpretations and law interpretations and value judgements.
Or positioning to wham on Iran.
Israel needs a Causi Beli they don’t need a good reason they just need to wag the dog and get everyone to stop talking about peace ships this issue is a loser for them they need to change the topic quick.
A war means no more peace ships or at least gives them a good reason to stop all ships Turkey sends a warship then Israel has reason not a good reason I grant you to stop the ship.
The ante will have been raised. This is Bush level crazy but it seems to be right out of his playbook.
Who supplies Hizbollah a single Hizbollah rocket hits Israel then they can retaliate claiming they are sending Iran a message.
we’re always in position for that and I don’t think that we usually transit Suez when we’re rotating carrier groups on station in the Gulf.
Does look like a hot-foot run, doesn’t it?
Israel and Rahm think they are the only Chess players here the gambit is typical Rahm Obvious.
Turkey, Iran and Syria all seem to be in Israel’s sights. Larue and Al the Spook ( I think it was ) say First rule of the Middle east don’t Fuck with the Turks.
Well I’m saying Israel is willing to bluff and risk it.
Well, that would be insane.
Remember all the fleets that were moving to Iran right around when Al the Spook noticed live nukes were almost sent to the Middle East back when everyone thought Cheney wanted to bomb Iran?
I’m getting the same feeling I had back then.
I do remember. Didn’t Iran sink the whole frickin’ fleet in that particular wargame?
Yes but from their point of view attacking Peace Ships is a PR loser. But Israeli politicians love a war it gets them into the history books if they win.
The book “King of the Mountain ” suggests leaders need a war to be considered great. Its either a war or they get embarrassed with more Peace Ships and risk having to back down.
If the Israeli Commandoes lose control again on a ship full of women well the Arab States at the least would have to do another oil boycott or risk losing their own heads.
Yes we need Al back here now him and MFI I’m sure could have a great conversation.
Israel is forgetting the Saudis hold Mecca they have to defend all Muslims or else they lose that whole defender of the Faith thing.
The last thing the Saudis want is Iran and Turkey both doing while they sit on the sidelines.
I’m guessing Hilary is ignoring their calls.
You can’t play Chess if you ignore some of the pieces on the table.
The rotations of the CVN groups don’t normally show a transit like the one done Friday. Why such a large group left, and why – as some reports emphasize – it contained both American and Israeli ships, I don’t know. I’m looking for reports that might give accurate info.
I doubt they are leaving the Med because they think things could go batshit crazy next week.
You mean go crazy specifically in re the next flotilla?
OMG, Karzai just gave 1st whack at all the mineral rights to Japan.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/20/japan-has-priority-on-rig_n_618545.html
FU, General Petraeus.
Karzai isn’t going to be around long enough to see any kickbacks from any mining.
That’s what this diary is about, Hmmm. I’m uncomfortable with the whole idea of this next flotilla. The best aspects are very laudable – German Jews bringing musical instruments to Gaza on a boat that might end up being named “Exodus II.”
When it was a movement – and it was – it was a challenge to governments. I admired that more than what it is quickly becoming, now that there have been deaths, and probably more to come.
I noticed a report saying that there might have been a single Israeli ship tucked in among the dozen. Did you see anything guessing at more than one?
“at least one” seldom means one.
I read it as taking away the primary remaining US publicly feasible reason for staying.
I understand, just trying to parse your comment about the warship movement.
I read a couple of reports saying “one” and the rest saying at least one, so I was going with a singleton and asking if you had seen a larger number.
I haven’t.
I read it as Karzai being Karzai. Japan has dibs, he was quoted as saying, because of all the aid money they’ve been sending.
The US has been trying to route our aid money away from him lately.
One ship suggests that it’s being escorted and has something special about it, in, or on it.
More than one might suggest other things.
I have no idea.
ET … I’ve been searching all my sources to see if there’s more on the warships thru Suez story and all simply refer back to one story in Al Quds Al Arabia with one added reference to a Debka report. I’ll want to see more before I take it more seriously than the usual Times of London stir the pot tales that get repeated (like the ToL claim that the Saudis gave Israel permission to fly over which the Saudis immediately disclaimed)
Since all of the reports mention a strong Egyptian reaction to this news, I’m hoping we can pick up something from Egyptian sources to confirm or disprove the story.
These quotes are sourced:
http://www.monabaker.com/quotes.htm
Those quotes existed on a wikipedia page, until someone very powerful caused the page to be pulled down (Myrav Wurmser)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel_and_racism
Here’s what the Wiki page used to contain:
http://www.rense.com/general77/disturb.htm
Myrav Wurmser heads up MEMRI and CAMERA, both dedicated to erasing evil from the pages of history – and altering present-day reality to whatever extent she can get away with it.
Analysis: Zionist media vs. Israeli racist quotations
How CAMERA really works.
That’s what I’m hearing from team members in Southern Lebanon and South Beirut as well.
Every time the Israelis have invaded and come up against the Hizb they’ve had to turn and run away with their tails between their legs.
This time around Nasrallah has warned that instead of fighting a purely defensive war that the Hizb will actively pursue Israeli invaders back across the border and that they will carry out offensive operations in Israel itself.
He doesn’t make idle threats, every time he has said that the armed wing of the Hizb can amd will do something it has turned out to be something of an understatement.
How will the Israelis cope with their vaunted military superiority being proved to be BS with Israeli soldiers and installations being attacked on their home ground?
Any ideas how they are going to try to pull that off?
I need to read more about that…do you have a link?
Israel’s Declining Sperm Quality Tied To Depleted Uranium Exposure
http://www.countercurrents.org/king150410.htm
No nor would I blab it about on a public forum if I did. The Lebanese army is good at looking flash on parade grounds otherwise they’re a bad joke.
I served long enough with UNIFIL to know that they are likewise a joke. They don’t have the weapons, the manpower, or the ROE that they need.
Which leaves us with the Hizb as the defenders of Lebanon. Individually they are very capable fighters indeed, they also benefit by being led by a more than ordinarily competent officer corps.
Its wise not to blab but by the time the media let alone the American government picks up one of our stories from the comments the story is almost over.
Heck you could make the argument that mentioning an idea on a blog will force the talking heads to on instinct to dismiss it.
Still I see a lot of late nights commenting no matter what happens.
It already is here.
If applicable, Happy Father’s Day. Hope you have a good one. I went to China many years ago and adopted a Chinese orphan girl. Best thing I have ever done. If you want immortality write a book or have a kid.
Okay, regarding #29 please provide three neutral third party sources for your information. That is, world class news services. That is, the distinterested party can have no dog in this fight in any manner. Then, please provide the source for your statement. You want credibility, not that I am the arbiter of credibility or anything else around here, but repect from one’s peers on the other side of the room has value for all of us. Have at it.
At the risk of blogwhoring:
Here are links to three pieces I wrote back in 2006 they give a lot of background and terms you can use for your own googling:
Gorilla’s Guides: Getting Inside Their Heads (Part 1)
Gorilla’s Guides: Getting Inside Their Heads (Part 2)
Gorilla’s Guides: Getting Inside Their Heads (Part 3)
I’ll also include a link to this piece by Declan who is the finest sergeant I ever had the honour of commanding, he served under me all through my tours of duty in Lebanon and proved every day that while you can get rid of the officers if you have to every army needs good sergeants.
He’s married to a southern Lebanese girl they live bang smack in the path that will be taken by the next Israeli invasion. Deco being Deco I expect he has a very unpleasant series of greetings prepared for the invaders.
“What I Did At The Weekend”
If they are smart they will not kick that hornets nest.
sure, check UN resolutions for details of how the last war ended.
Other than that you could do a lot worse than starting here:
Israeli–Lebanese conflict – Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and clicking and googling from there.
Finally because I damn near can’t breathe for laughing every time I read it here is Aqoul’s Matthew Hogan’s Letter from Hizbullah to Israel
Let’s just say for argument sake that your reporting is 100% accurate. I think we can both agree that decent human beings would never knowingly hurt a child. So for you to attribute the actions of these ‘soldiers’ to an entire group of people or country would be an exercise in collective guilt. I thought that only Israelis did that.
Major demographic concerns – to what extreme will they go to cause Jews to move to Israel?
They are running out of Zealots, and recruiting them from the US.
Dual citizen / Dual loyalty?
Thanks!
Geeze. I’ve been misinformed by the Yankee media…
1) You’re welcome
2) WRT to:
Maybe they don’t want their Israeli friends to attack their ships like they attacked the U.S.S. Liberty
The movement through the Suez Canal is curious.
That crossed my mind, but we have no way to know for sure.
This just came out at Haaretz:
Israel can’t go shooting Nuns although Reagan got away with it the stakes are raised if they get out of port.
In case no one else has mentioned it, ET, good post and good comments from you. It’s appreciated.
Wikipedia
Likewise.
Trying to decide on whether or not to leave this evening on my biggest fishing trip of the year.
Here are pictures from our 2007 trip.
Yah that’s been on all sorts of places:
Lebanon not to allow Julia ship to sail to Gaza | Al Bawaba
Sounds about right to me. The Israelis never got around to declaring peace on any of the occasions that their soldiers ran away back to Israel before they could lose even more than they’d lost already so a state of war still exists.
My guess would be that any ships from Lebanon would make their way to a Turkish port and set off from their but that is only a guess
Do it, if anyone deserves a holiday from all of this stuff it’s you. You’ve done superb work. Come back to it after a well earned treat.
I’m seeing reports that will take the Lebanese ship to Cyprus then Turkey – and join a larger flotilla.
Arutz Sheva is reporting the warships thru Suez movement – and tying it to blocking the next flotilla btw but there is still no report of that movement outside of those sourced to the Al Quds Al Arabia.
Well said … and ET, I’ll make sure we do you proud meanwhile.
Thank you for that assessment of Pappe’s writing style. It relieves my guilt for feeling put upon while slogging through his writing to glean the useful material (of which there was much).
Thank you also for that reference to The Panda’s Thumb.
fresh Alaskan fish with a Tequila glaze!
small and sometimes refreshing world.
enjoy it ET
This from a comment to the Haaretz article yesterday on the vessels transiting the Suez Canal:
A quick glance of naval sites associated with Desron 26 and CarDiv 10, shows that The Truman Group (10) has been on station “The USS Harry S. Truman began a ten-month deployment, to the 5th and 6th fleet areas of operations, in support of maritime security operations on May 21, 2010.”
The 6th Fleet is the Mediterranean. The 5th is the Red Sea, Persian Gulf, Indian Ocean. The task group as described above would be normal, the transit through the canal appears to be normal also. I’m not sure whether the description in the article cited at the top of my post of Egyptian military forces called out along the shores of the canal is normal.
Perhaps it’s just me, but if you substitute the word Jew for what many here call Zionists or Israelis, you get classic anti-Semitic remarks from the Nazi era? Perhaps another way to say it is that this web site sure caters to a lot of White Supremacists and their fellow travellers. Is this supposed to be a left-wing or left-leaning site? Lately I can’t tell if this is a neo-Nazi web site or there are just a lot of neo-Nazis who post here. I wonder how FDL would react if all of a sudden there were a lot of rabidly anti-Muslim, or anti-Catholic, or anti-Mormon hate diaries? I am quite sure it would be a very different story: they would never get through!
Interesting article at Arutz Sheva–suggests warships to block Iranian flotilla contingents before they reach the Suez, which Egypt says it will allow to pass on their way to Gaza.
I’ve been battling creationism for years and years.
is one of the most informative sites in the battle against that particular kind of willful stupidity.
The terms do not mean the same thing at all.
Many Jews are not Zionists. Some Israeli Jews seek a one-state solution and a non-religious Israeli governmental makeup. Most commenters here understand the distinction, even if you do not. I have several Jewish friends who have been on earlier flotillas, and even more who will be on the ones either forming up or in planning.
Or would you consign such Jews who do not fit your compliant mold to this place?
What’s wrong with Creationism? If you ignore the fact that the ancient people in the Middle East were master beer brewers before Thursday at approximately 11:45 in the AM in the year 4004 BCE, there really is no problem or contradiction.
When I was googling some of Plunger’s (mis)quotes, I couldn’t help noticing that they appear on some neo-nazi and “aryan” websites. While I am sure that most people here are arguing in good faith about a legitimate human rights issue, I also have no doubt that there are people who are oddly obsessed with Jews and take delight in any suffering that happens in Israel or Palestine.
it’s not a very good idea to start changing other people’s words…. and blaming them for what you get in result.
I do dream some nights of sharing a brew or two with a brontosaurus. They can outdrink me easily, though.
I am referring to the tone and diction being used here. Check it out, especially the propaganda of the Anti-Semitic German political party in the late 19th century. This is not a question of the present Israeli government or the religious nuts in the country. We both have problems with that. I am referring to language. And as far as Jews equalling Zionists, well the Jews who made it through WWII and ended up in modern Israeli were all Zionists by definition or accident. It is a luxury today for Jews to say they are not Zionists, but since no country including the US would take Jewish refugees after WWII(in sizeable numbers), where were they suppose to go?
Not changing, interpreting and comparing. No more and no less.
Noticed the same.
You might benefit from reading this recent article by Peter Beinart. He is grappling with some of same tension you seem to be feeling.
And here is an exchange between Abe Foxman and Beinart in the current edition of the NYRB.
If you haven’t already devoured Dawkin’s ‘The Ancestor’s Tale’ I am sure you will find it a remarkable and enjoyable read.
Thanks, I will.
Cheat – you stick stick to beer and give them buckets full of tequila and or other spirits – they won’t notice the difference until it’s too late.
I read through it at a friend’s house, while traveling in 2008. A remarkable book. He had the British edition, with all the color pictures. I suppose I might look for a used copy on-line, eh?
As long as they don’t topple over on me. Drunk brontosauri tend to easily lose their balance. It probably has to do with the relative size of brain to body mass.
True but I’m sure you can be nimble at need. Look on the bright side that guy in the funny robes, with the assault rifle, the night scope, and the Messiah complex will either fall off and be crushed, or will fall off and like Paul of Tarsus, realise that falling off his steed is a divine warnig and seek to mend his ways.
From YNet:
What would happen to caribou barbie’s fence if a drunk brontosaurus toppled into it?
I suspect Paul was an epileptic.
I’m not about to go over there and find out. The more distance between her and me, the better.
She chooses to live on a dead lake that her policies helped to kill. Ours is alive, and we strive to keep it well.
Yup very likely, and a lot of the medieval visionaries were probably tripping on ergotamine contaminated rye bread.
Barnes & Noble used books and books out of print-web site. Great source and inexpensive. Many used books are in new condtion.
Good work
From Thomas Paine’s ‘The Age of Reason’ and I paraphrase, for the one who experiences an epiphany or revelation that is one thing, but to spread the revelation is pure gossip.
Roseanne Barr, rethinking what Judaism mens to her, after the May flotilla interceptions. A fascinating interview.
h/t - Phil Weiss
For a little light reading this summer the following works will keep you entertained and away from evening trysts with Brontosauri: ‘Misquoting Jesus’ by Bart D. Ehrman, ‘The Great Deception: And What Jesus Really Said and Did’ by Gerd Ludemann, and ‘Jesus’ Resurrection Fact or Figment? A Debate Between William Lane Craig and Gerd Ludemann’ edited by Paul Copan & Ronald K. Tacelli. Enjoy.
The interesting thing about beer is that the ancients mixed and heated grain and water and let it ferment and then drank the mixture. It was like oatmeal with one hell of a kick, but very nutritious. Clairifed beer, the stuff we drink, is a rather modern invention. And as history notes, during the Middle Ages due to contamianted water most people including Christian clergy and Nuns drank up to one-half gallon of beer a day. Hell the entire population was plowed most of the time. Talk about religious experiences! I know several people who have them on a weekly basis at their favorite bar!
Are you kidding me…? Get a grip…!
No I am not kidding. And perhaps you should consider an introspective self-reality check. You might want to read very carefully what is actually being written on this site expecially when it comes to Israel.
DNFTT
Be our guest and explain more fully.
A Kos diary from early this morning at the Oakland waterfront:
…oops
not going fishing until tomorrow….
My Bad…!
Btw…
Damn Skippy…! I was proud to be the ‘backbone of the Army’ myself…! ;-)
What wonderful news!
You know as well as I do, Siun, how hard it was before Operation Cast Lead to get an I/P diary up at Kos without being swamped in Hasbara. The post is coming up on 900 comments, and though there is some of that, commenters supporting Palestinian rights and BDS are far more numerous and articulate than sometimes in the past.
Well every army does need good sergeants. I remember discussing this with you back on the old site (remember how dreadful halsocan was?) You have every reason to be proud of your time as a sergeant.
PS: Particularly given the time you served – when the army was in rather a mess.
*They can outdrink me easily*
Yeah, sure…it would look that way until all that beer made it all the way down that neck, and then…the sauropod staggers.
By the way, don’t try to find a drinking partner in the phone book under *bronosaurus*. He’s changed his name; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apatosaurus
What a powerful statement…! Awesome indeed…! BDS rawks…!
Yay! Now that is good news. There may be hope for us all yet.
I truly regret that I can’t access any of my material from Main and Central…! 8-(
More Mossad disinfo interspersed with a few facts?
Just as long as you do go fishing – you deserve the break. I’ll report you to Ctuttle if you don’t go fishing, and then he’ll be forced to send dreadful sea monsters north to chase you and the brontosauri away from your keyboard and into your boat ….
Me too. And the same goes for Lurch’s stuff. That was an excellent site. Did you ever read Mohammed Ibn Laith’s tribute to Lurch btw?
The Oakland protest made the San Francisco Chronicle about an hour ago, but none of the news aggregators like memorandum have picked it up yet.
This is all simply the latest PR spin … it is Debka after all.
Blair is dancing about trying to get noticed again and Israel is trying to override any international discussion of decent next steps – and the so called easing of the blockade is meaningless. The blockade itself is illegal – and even in this surreal news version, there is no clear word on what will actually change given the number of items Israel considers dual use or military.
But more importantly, we have to remember that dismantling the blockade itself is the point, not momentarily brightening the walls of the prison.
Sure did read it… A fitting tribute indeed! I tried my best to fill Lurch’s big footsteps…! ;-)
BBC’s video coverage of Tony Blair’s announcement on Israel’s allowing more stuff into the prison.
Who was it who said a lie was all the stronger for being mixed with a little truth?
I think Lurch would feel you did a good job of that.
*heh* As if I had that ability…! ;-)
Your writing is very different from his. He had a very distinctive “voice” as do you. Both of you engaged (and you still do) in good quality honest writing in which you backed up opinions with facts.
Blair is still an Israeli tool…! *gah*
Part of the reason the Oakland longshoremen honored the protesters’ request not to cross the line this morning may be this action, taken on June 14th, by the San Francisco Labor Council.
The morning protest was largely symbolic, because the ship hasn’t berthed yet. When the evening shift of longshoremen show up at 6:00 p.m. PDT (the vessel is preparing to berth right now) we shall see.
Figures…god damn commie pinko homosexual anti-semitic Oakland cops!
Rife with cultish jargon, also. /s
Time for me to get some sleep – I’ll check back tomorrow. Until then TTFN
*poof*
Given the astounding differences between Israel’s English-language statements vs. their Hebrew-language statements last week, has anyone checked today’s Hebrew-language news and press releases to see whether they same the same things as the English language stuff?
A Youtube from this morning’s action in Oakland.
Agreed but then again when I write about immigrants I get hit with the La Raza Brown Supremacy stuff. I think they are just projecting.
Here’s another video from the morning Oakland action. This one is a bit more coherent.
You can track the MV Zim Shenzhen as it pulls into Oakland here. Just went in through the Golden Gate.
That is way cool.
Thanks, ET.
Could the US really be this dim witted? Sending 11 war ships for a few Lebanese and one IRC vessel or is this going to be another Gulf Of Tonkin type incident?
The entire world wants to end the Gaza blockage except the US and Israel, and looks like they are salivating for a major ME conflict and this might be the excuse they need.
Is there anyone who can stop the clinically insane rulers now in charge?
I’m afraid the US and Israel will not use any restraint. If this blows up the US will be directly fighting and dying for Israel to maintain their illegal and immoral blockade on the starving people of Gaza.
The US finds a new way to drop down another level in humanity.
Article ties in the IRC floatilla, US/Israeli warships and the blockade.
LINK : http://www.commondreams.org/headline/2010/06/20-2
A commenter there reminds us of UN Resolution 1860. It passed on Jan 8/09 so why is it being ignored? Open crossing points would negatesthe need for attempts to break a blockade..ie..there wouldn’t be one to break. A cynic might think that the US and Israel don’t want peace between Gaza and Israel.
****************
“The resolution sets out urgent tasks for the international community and calls on United Nations Member States to intensify their efforts to provide arrangements and guarantees in Gaza to sustain a durable ceasefire and calm, including to prevent illicit trafficking in arms and ammunition, and to ensure the sustained reopening of crossing points on the basis of the 2005 Agreement on Movement and Access between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.”
http://www.un.org/News/Press/docs/2009/sc9567.doc.htm
From The Israeli Project. Building material is still to be kept from freely flowing into Gaza.
*************
“Today (June 22) the Israeli Security Cabinet voted to further ease the land blockade on the Gaza Strip, changing it previous policy to allow all food items to be transferred into Gaza. Previously, about 15 tons of basic food supplies and humanitarian goods were delivered to Palestinians weekly, but certain materials up until now were prohibited. Other items will also be eased, but weapons and related materials used to build weapons will still be prohibited.
Israel’s policy on easing Gaza’s land blockade includes the following:
* Most goods will now be allowed into Gaza, with the exception of materials related to weapons or used in the past to produce weapons. A list of restricted materials will be published;
* Construction materials will be delivered for purposes of Palestinian Authority and United Nations’ authorized projects, which include schools, medical facilities and sanitation installations;
* Israel-Gaza border crossings will expand their current capacity to ensure an increase in the volume of goods transferred as well as economic activity. Israel will also revise its entry and exit policy for people involved in humanitarian work and those seeking medical attention.”
http://www.theisraelproject.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=hsJPK0PIJpH&b=689705&ct=8448105
Thanks, everyone, for commenting. This was the most comments one of my diaries has gotten that wasn’t about Sarah Palin, IIRC. It is an important subject.
I wish I wasn’t so late to this thread..
ET.. I saw this article here : http://www.thelocal.de/politics/20100620-27975.html
there were some juicy schadenfreude bits that weren’t in the haaretz article.
And now stronger signs of Rahm splitting from Obama. Huh.