Update: For more information on what Global BDS is (the worldwide campaign to encourage boycott, divestment and sanctions of the Israeli state over treatment of Palestinians) please see the bottom of this essay.*
******
March 30 is Global BDS Day of Action 2011. According to the BDS Movement’s web site:
Activists in the Europe and North America held actions over the weekend as a contribution towards tomorrow’s Global BDS Day of Action. Looking at some of the planned actions, today is looking like it is set to be the biggest and widest day of action to date!
- Flashmobs and BDS demonstrations will take place in dozens of cities, from Rabat to Toronto, from Prague to Melbourne.
- The international campaign against the Jewish National Fund will be officially launched.
- New initiatives, resources and campaigns will be launched by groups all over the world.
What is a flashmob?
Here’s one, early today from March 26th, creatively protesting in Grand Central Station:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=myt23xhMEMk&feature=player_embedded
There have been many BDS flashmob actions over the past year or so. One, held last year in St. Louis, featuring heroic Holocaust survivor Hedy Epstein, was removed from youtube because the flashmob singers and dancers used material created by Lady Gaga. Others remain:
What is the international campaign against the Jewish National Fund?
Max Blumenthal has managed to document several aspects of the JNF’s ongoing activities inside Israel itself (as opposed to his documentation of Israeli activities in the occupied territories of the West Bank) that remind me of government actions against black citizens in South Africa in the 60s, 70s and 80s. Here’s a video Max ran at his blog last month “depicting the 17th(!) pogrom against the Bedouin village of Al-Arakib by the criminal syndicate known as the Jewish National Fund and the End Timers at GOD TV,” as Max described it.
The campaign against the JNF has been described by the International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network:
A key pillar of the colonization of Palestine – from the founding of the State of Israel to the present – has been the Keren Kayemet LeIsrael (KKL), commonly known in English as the Jewish National Fund (JNF). The JNF enjoys charity status in over 50 countries. This is despite its role in the on-going displacement of indigenous Palestinians from their land, the theft of their property, the funding of historic and present-day colonies, and the destruction of the natural environment.
Land Day 2011 will welcome the launch of internationally coordinated campaigns to challenge the JNF-KKL. As part of the global movement for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS), in solidarity with the Palestinian liberation struggle, and until such time as the State of Israel respects and implements international law, the Palestinian BDS National Committee and many other organizations call on global civil society to join in a campaign to challenge the JNF.
Why should firedoglake take a position for or against the BDS movement?
I was not in favor of the idea until 2010, even though I have been arguing for and working for Palestinian rights since late in the last century. What changed my mind in 2010?
1. The continuing expropriation of Palestinian lands inside Israel itself, in East Jerusalem and in countless places in the West Bank.
2. The growing strength of the ultra far right in Israeli politics and government ministries. Just this week the Knesset passed a new “Citizenship Law” that, although watered down from the initially proposed “Loyalty Oath” legislation, leaves much room for further implementation of apartheid policies or worse against Palestinians who are Israeli citizens:
Initially, Israel Beiteinu pushed for legislation requiring a loyalty oath to a “Jewish and democratic” state, but the current law was the compromise that the faction managed to secure from the coalition.
“Another promise made by Israel Beiteinu to its voters has been fulfilled,” responded Lieberman minutes after the vote. “Without loyalty, there can be no citizenship. Any person who harms the country cannot enjoy the benefits of citizenship and its fruit. The law will help confront the phenomenon by which there are those who take advantage of our democracy in order to undermine it, and by which those who are called citizens collaborate with the enemy.”
In a gibe at Arab MKs who presented outspoken and impassioned opposition to the bill, Lieberman added that “unfortunately, we are witness to these incidents even among members of the Knesset.”
3. The brazenly unlawful and unnecessary attack on the MV Mavi Marmara, the hundreds of deaths or injuries in 2011 of Palestinians, almost half of them children, and the continuing insinuation of Israeli-based interest groups into American politics helped spur me toward supporting BDS.
4. Already, before I supported BDS, I felt strongly about the negative effects of Israeli-centric American policies. I was asked this 15 months ago:
I don’t understand your preoccupation with Palistine. How about giving some balanced blog space and advocacy for the oppressed people of countries such as North Korea, Tibet, China, Sudan, Somalia, Myanmar, etc.?
My reply, in January 2010:
We don’t send hundreds of billions of American tax dollars to the North Koreans so that they can drop or shoot white phosphorus onto schools and hospitals, where kids like the one at the upper left have to end up dead or looking like him.
We don’t write tax policies that enable the Han Chinese to invest in housing projects that eject Tibetans from their homes in Lhasa.
We don’t cater to lobbyists from Sudan who constantly encourage us to go to all-out war against a neighboring country that hasn’t attacked one of their neighbors in generations.
We don’t have a Pentagon whose offices are stuffed with people with dual Somali-American citizenship, who manufacture false premises to march us into a series of wars in the heart of Africa.
We aren’t experiencing a time when a small group of ruthless Burmese generals and politicians have hijacked Buddhism, turning it into a militant version of what had once been a great religion, and branding anyone who doesn’t believe in a Myanmar expansion version of Buddhism as anti-Burmese or anti-Buddhist.
Additionally, no North Korean, Chinese, Sudanese, Burmese or Somali general, politician, general or warlord is openly bragging that the United States is fighting two wars and threatening to start a third one, on their behalf.
Also, and importantly, there is no large body of American people who openly believe that we need to foster violence in North Korea, Tibet, China, Somalia, Venezuela, Cuba, Sudan or Burma, so that we may enable the second coming of Jesus Christ, and implement a new age. And there is no cynical tie-in between Columbian politicians who hope to bring money to their country because of some apocolyptic religious myth, and American fundamentalist sects who total in the tens of millions of misguided believers.
I’ve come to actively support the global BDS movement. I encourage others to do the same. I would like to hear the thoughts of readers on whether or not this might be a laudable goal for fdl to also pursue.
*Update: Here is a statement about the origins and goals of the Global Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions campaign against the Israeli Government policies against the Palestinian people:
On July 9 2005, a year after the International Court of Justice’s historic advisory opinion on the illegality of Israel’s Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), a clear majority of Palestinian civil society called upon their counterparts and people of conscience all over the world to launch broad boycotts, implement divestment initiatives, and to demand sanctions against Israel, until Palestinian rights are recognised in full compliance with international law.
The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:
- Ending its occupation and colonization of all Arab lands occupied in June 1967 and dismantling the Wall;
- Recognizing the fundamental rights of the Arab-Palestinian citizens of Israel to full equality; and
- Respecting, protecting and promoting the rights of Palestinian refugees to return to their homes and properties as stipulated in UN Resolution 194.
The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.
Resources on BDS can be found at the Global BDS web page:
9 July 2005 Palestinian Civil Society Call for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions
Wikipedia article on this movement (includes criticism of the movement, its goals and methods)
Information on Buy Israeli Day (a reaction to the BDS movement)



119 Comments

My vote is yes on the actual details of FDL’s position I’ll watch the debate first before I join in
As a BDS supporter, I vote yes.
I’ve got a lot of bookmarked stuff ready in case this turns into a worthwhile discussion. Too bad there is no easy way for commenters to paste in html links at Myfdl.
3-zip, so far.
Yes, FDL should. It will create howls of outrage among the Obamacrats, but that would be progress. The debate has to be brought into the open air, and FDL taking a stance would be a major step.
Apart from its impact on Israel/Palestine, it would smoke out those who think one can be both progressive and Zionist.
I’m hoping for opportunities to engage in creative dialogue more than smoking anyone out. It took a lot of creative dialogue and reassessment of my own ideas for me to change from anti- to pro-BDS. I was, up to about 1983, a long-time – sometimes ardent – Zionist.
Creative dialogue will smoke people out. Whether such is our intention or not. This is why so many work so hard to keep Israel/Palestine from being discussed at all. For instance, at DocuDharma, I wrote Eyeless in Gaza, which led to this Ex Cathedra discussion thread.
The topic is now completely verboten.
excellent point.
Philip, I love the idea and the impetus for ‘taking a position’ on BDS, but, how can ‘FDL’ take a position per se…? Really…? Siun’s hosting Adam Horowitz on Sunday to talk about ‘Goldstone’, which I’m eagerly awaiting, but, FDL is not a monolith…!
Great diary, btw, and recc’d…! *g*
We have taken a position on several issues. We’ve actively supported stopping the abuse of Bradley Manning, for instance. How would taking a position on this be different?
1) Recommended.
2) Yes
2) That being said I agree with Ctuttle — FDL is far from monolithic.
markfromireland
So, can fdl perform a creative role on this issue, like we probably have on Manning’s treatment?
That role has been beyond odd diaries from people like you, CT, Siun and me – or others. And, perhaps people here disagreed on whether or not Manning is being mistreated.
@ EdwardTeller March 30th, 2011 at 9:38 pm
Probably, and (see “yes” vote above) I think it’s worth doing.
That being said the decision to go ahead were it to be taken would involve significant costs to FDL in terms of the venomous uproar it would cause. I happen to think that it would be worth it and fully consistent with the very brave trailblazing stance that FDL has taken repeatedly.
But I have no role in running FDL (and would refuse one in the highly unlikely event of it being offered) so my “yes” vote is consequence free for me.
markfromireland
mfi,
thanks. you’re thinking structurally already. I like that. right, though, that it might be barely doable. we get “venomous uproar” on other subjects too.
@ EdwardTeller March 30th, 2011 at 10:28 pm
What’s this “we” business paleface? (Sorry, couldn’t resist :-) )
Plenty of venom more than enough to go round. I agree with Jeff Roby above although I would take the scope of his argument further by saying that who you would be “smoking out” are those of any political stripe who believe that what is in fact a form of apartheid is acceptable.
That’s a worthwhile exercise in and of itself but should not be allowed distract from the objective which is to put further pressure on the Zionist state.
markfromireland
If articles get front paged on this topic then FDL has made a stand granted the commentors might argue on some or even all the front paged articles but thats normal here.
But if the leadership backs this topic FDL can do an article or two a day or prepare a campaign in line with some event and flood the Lake with articles as the event approaches.
We certainly have enough writers covering this topic very well in the diaries to get an article or two a day, granted some organization of the writers would be needed so stories don’t get over covered from the same angle.
However do we have any mechanism to contact the Leadership and pitch them this idea besides the hope they might stumble upon this diary?
What convinces the leadership to front page stuff? The number of reader comments and the number and length of people viewing but not writing comments on articles?
Again I don’t know what gets you front paged but I do know that night Israel attacked the Turkish ship it was a late nite/ early morning and EVERYONE was on that thread.
I have never seen an Israel thread get that many comments or trolls especially at that time of night.
We fought off Israel trolls with facts we got from people getting twitter updates and news from several foreign countries translated or our people were translating the news themselves.
Heck the next day after I finally woke up Wolf Blitzer on CNN was still repeating Israel talking points that me and the commentors at the Lake had disproved 10 hours ago.
I like being on the cutting edge of news and sorting the fact from the fiction the Israel propaganda machine was certainly ready for us they had lies ready they did not know just how good we were and that we had facts coming in from reporters on the boat.
It was a proud day for the Lake. If we have a plan we can have more proud days.
Can anyone get ahold of Leen and BlueButterfly they both wrote on this subject and took on tons of trolls doing it. If the Lake decides to push this I’d like everyone who really fought for this to get a chance to shine.
FDL is a top down organization as are most organizations in our society. It would be great if FDL were a real community and there was a mechanism for people to discuss subjects and reach consensus about actions to take. Most peopole are so down on humanity they think more open arrangements are impossible.
I doubt the “leadership” would go for it in any event. When nested comments were introduced I had no opinion about them. Now I think they suck. A few others came on with the same opinion, but I don’t see a change being made or the “leadership” interested in making changes. If we can’t get a grip on nested comments, I doubt we can do anything substantial. If you think the B. Manning campaign a success, I’d like to know what you consider failure.
BTW what is BDS?
What MFI said up above. :-)
Also, the BDS flash mob is quite the thing — Mona Eltahawy and other writers whose wheelhouse is the Middle East have Tweeted it big-time: http://twitter.com/princeofthenile/status/53242734147928065
I believe Leen was banned from fdl. She is an active participant at Mondoweiss, where I sometimes comment.
I don’t know why BlueButterfly does not comment here on this.
BDS is boycott, divestment and sanctions against Israel. There is a hyperlink to the Global BDS web page at the top of this diary. If you go there it then links to pages which explain the movement’s platform, activities and supporters.
Without fdl’s work on helping get the word out on Manning, a whole lot less people would know about his treatment. We don’t yet know how much bringing attention to his mistreatment might influence the scrutiny given his trial, should there be one.
If left wing or liberal Democrats are for human rights and justice around the world, then the right answer is yes, we should advocate for the Palestinians, who are being disposed day by day through various forms of ethnic cleansing, as they have been since 1948, and continued after 1967. The BDS movement is one way individuals can participate, even against what our own government is doing to the Palestinians.
But the charge of being anti-Israel or even anti-Semitic awaits those who take up the cause, and that applies here as anywhere else. The weakest excuse against advocating for BDS is “no balance,” that such advocacy is “one-sided.” Yet when you ask critics to make their case for the righteousness of Israel’s ethnic cleansing, occupation, and further colonization of the Palestinian territories that is continuing, you’re greeted with silence. It can’t be defended on any humanitarian or human rights grounds.
Interestingly, the Israeli Knesset recently passed a law making it a crime to advocate for boycotts and sanctions inside of Israel, among its own people.
The right answer is of course yes, but I don’t see it happening. On the other hand, it would be disheartening if reports about BDS activity were censored or not given recommended status at fdl, unlike this diary, which is very worthy.
Sure, I’d love to see the editorial staff push this the way it pushes Manning and pot legalization.
It won’t happen, but thanks for the diary.
Lovely idea, Edward. The next Turkish-backed flotilla to Gaza is scheduled for May, no?
I’ve been trying to find the PBS video aired last night on how to mobilize quickly for alternative energy production on a massive scale in order to ask if FDL might want to take some lead on that, too. (Hasn’t been released yet at PBS.org yet)
I read at Haaretz.com this morning that a soon-to-be-released poll of Israeli youth found them moving much further right; that’s not only discouraging, but makes any push that helps Palestinians more timely.
http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/poll-young-israelis-moving-much-farther-to-the-right-politically-1.353187
I understand this Turkish flottila will consist of 15 boats and/or ships. Probably the best we can hope for concerning the Gaza siege is for a new Egyptian government, whenever it is constituted, to open the Raffa crossing fully, and for the US to mandate that Israel maintain the negotiated ceasefires.
FDL got word out, but Manning’s conditions, so far as I know, haven’t changed. That’s the rub.
Now that I know what BDS is, I’m for it and for FDL taking a stand.
I didn’t realize people get banned. I understand Rayne, whom I thought a decent writer, Rusty and screwedagain also got the ax. Anyone know what for? Spoke with screwedagain. He posted his phone number and we have the same area code. He’s a little rough but certainly tolerable. As far as he knows he got banned for calling someone a liar. Are we as politically correct as all that? Could the community differ from the leadership on this?
Yes, FDL should support and report frequently on the BDS movement with the same vigor and agressive reporting it has brought to some other issues, such as legalizing marijuana, opposing illegal government wiretapping and other infringements on privacy, and many others. It is important to do so regardless of whether there is vociferous pushback or not. It is important for Congress and those in power to know that BDS has the active, vocal support of many in this country.
I’m not sure the term “Turkish flotilla” does the organizers of the 2011 relief attempt justice. For instance, as in 2010, at least one vessel will be American – The Audacity of Hope. Here’s part of a bulletin the U.S. group sent out this week, in response to concerns about IDF infiltration of the organization behind the project:
Here’s a link to the 2011 Freedom Flotilla’s home page. Their organization is based in Amsterdam.
Here’s a link to the American boat’s web page.
It appears that the Mediterranean is going to be a far different, perhaps more dangerous environment for such an action in May 2011 than it was in May 2010.
I’ve defended fdl‘s policies on I/P issues several times, most notably in comments that led to this essay at Mondoweiss. I doubt anyone behind the scenes at fdl has anything but the best of intentions in their handling of responsible articles by contributors here.
When the topic is brought up and discussion is attempted, I’ve seen folks get utterly irrational as a result of the contradictory positions they’re holding to so tightly. Whereever there are lies and hypocrisy, we should wade right in. Yes, we should consider providing this particular de-brainwashing service.
Regarding item #2 on the Global BDS’s action plan for March 30th:
Max Blumenthal posted an essay late yesterday called On Land Day, the Jewish National Fund’s racist legacy is exposed. It describes in detail just how fully the JNF and its associated agency, the Israel Land Authority, represent an apparatus that fully deserves the term “apartheid.”
If you say you think Obama should be challenged, and by the way, bloggerface, since you don’t agree, your mother is a fascistic donkey-fucking whore, you could get banned. And you could complain that you were banned for challenging Obama.
Rusty had a massive hysterical meltdown. He was provoked, and took the bait way over the top.
Screwed was multiply promoting his book, which is against the rules.
Kwiatkowski regularly attacks the moderators, and those he disagrees with, he calls liars.
For better or worse, personal invective can get you banned. For those of us who stick to the issues when condemning Obama, we haven’t had much trouble.
On a practical note, BDS is a more sensitive issue than assailing Obama. I think we can say everything we need to say, but I’d advise against jaywalking or spitting on the sidewalk.
In any event, that ad hominen juvenile bullshit detracts from the force of what we stand for.
According to the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, the Israeli government is “launching a public campaign” today, March 22, 2011 aimed at stopping the planned International Freedom Flotilla set to sail this spring. This news comes on the heels of information that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) announced it has formed a special unit to “monitor” foreign nationals opposed to its policies, including the flotilla.
Thats the kind of event we can build up a campaign around! As far as being anti Semetic I am all for a Jewish state I just don’t see why they can’t share Jerusalem.
I am really sorry to hear Leen was banned still we can always invite her back I hope.
Jane is the leader if we want to do this we need to contact her and convince her but e mail if you don’t get a reply provides little feedback.
The Lake needs some mechanism for bottom up ideas/change to get a chance to change things more.
Don’t ask me what that mechanism is first we must ask what does the Lake really want and what do we want to do to get it.
Israel is a vicious, apartheid regime. It’s nothing short of insane that we are debating whether MAYBE we should boycott Israel, while we are in the midst of bombing the hell out of Libya!!!!
Do you not see how INSANE this is?
No one should be considered a progressive who doesn’t oppose Israel root and bone. I mean Israel as it is now constituted, a vicious, apartheid, warmongering, oppressive, ethnic cleansing state. If you don’t oppose every aspect of THAT Israel, with all your heart and soul, you aren’t a decent human being, much less a progressive. You need major spiritual guidance to refind your conscience in that case.
Now if you want to support Israel as a peace-loving, egalitarian, democratic place, then I’m all for that. But supporting such a beautiful Israel means opposing the Israel that right now is confronting everything good in humanity.
There should be no discussion about this. If you don’t support the boycott, you aren’t part of our movement. Period. Grayson, Weiner, I don’t care. If you don’t stand against Israel, as Israel is now, then you are no progressive.
Goddamn FDL to hell a trillion times over if it takes this stand.
Could you explain to us why you feel this way, Randall?
A few comments …
You wrote:
I get what you’re saying with this in its original context within your post but given the activities of the rich-sters in China, multi-national corporations are eagerly participating in the resource extraction in the TAR no differently than they are eager to open up the Grand Canyon for the same (please see the petition to stop this here). So, in actuality, the US and Europe are bankrolling the death of Tibet.
You wrote:
See my comment 75 through comment 77 and my comment 82. Also the thing to which we point and attached the tag “Buddhism” is actually resistant to these corruptions. That’s why the Chinese kleptocracies are intent on destroying the practice and the memory of it especially in Tibet. Did you notice how after the HHDL received the Nobel there was a pointed effort to shred the institution by awarding it to Obama?
Even if you stick to the issues when criticizing the mods you’ll be fine. I criticize Egnor a lot for his refusal to make moral arguments and take moral stands.
But I don’t call him names. And everything is cool…as far as I know.
This is why so many of us are thrilled about the membership model. It’s a big step in democratizing the editorial voice of the blog.
It may be Jane’s blog, but she knows that it’s not the Lake we know and care about unless we’re all here. It stopped being just hers a long time ago, and I think she realizes that.
Seriously people – if we chip in and get our DFH Professional Left cards we then have influence on the editorial content of the site. I’m not trying to shill for the program, but I’m a big believer in it.
Money talks. If we want the website to reflect ourselves we have to pony up.
If nothing else, to counter the vicious sentiments directly above my comment. Garbage like this makes me want to just put FDL on my Restricted Sites list
NOBODY is going to tell me I’m not a progressive just because I support Israel.
And I’m about done discussing this, anyhow.
This is like the series of articles written on “The Catfood Commission” on FDL way back. If this isn’t your issue, you don’t know from reading this article what the fuck you’re talking about. Nowhere in the article do you define the term “Global BDS Movement”, just like for over a month, nobody on FDL defined the term “Catfood Commission”. So I don’t know. What’s the “Global BDS Movement”? What’s the “Catfood Commission”? Why bother supporting something if the supporters are too insider to bother telling you what it is? Poorly written article on that basis.
@ shergald March 31st, 2011 at 5:43 am
Believe me that’s progress. I can’t speak to the situation in the US but when I first tried that tack my opponents would indeed launch into a defence of Israel’s actions. Granted that was a long time ago.
markfromireland
I got quite a way into this piece before I found out what BDS means. Why would you assume I knew?
Boy, it would be good if you could separate the leaders and policies from the nation; blasting the nation paints all the citizens. Look at what gets done in our names we abhor. Israel is not monolithic.
I’ll second most of that. I had to look it up and then went, “Oh, well, ok I’m on board for that.”
But it’s not obvious.
Yeah; you had to click the link; took me a few times, too.
Actually she has a point Phil. Particularly if you hope to ultimately reach beyond fdl’s natural audience you need to include a basic “boilerplate” glossary in every post as a standard.
It’s actually very easy to do.
Take a look at most of the Guides to Islam and you’ll see a floating text box with a glossary.
If you want to do something similar let me know — it’d be the work of a few minutes for me to code it for you.
markfromireland
I frequently have to cut and paste acronyms into a search engine, too. ;o) My husband hates then so much he keeps challenging me to write an entire diary with only acronyms and a few verbs.
The Israeli government is as evil and repulsive as the Emperor Obama and his Court. Should FDL take a position? I am content to leave that to Jane.
Stuck in traffic behind what looks like a horrific accident by the Knik River. If I catch up at school today. I’ll try to reformat the diary to make it easier to immediately understand more about BDS.
Glad to hear of your defenses Teller, and I have greeted diaries by you and Tuttle here at fdl with joy. If all we do here is publicize the plight of the Palestinians, I always felt that that was enough, since organizing boycott efforts at a left wing political blog probably exceeded its capacity.
Daily Kos, which some people consider a left wing blog, has been notorious in its banning of members who support the Palestinian cause, but leaving the pro-Israel gangs that attack critics of the Israeli occupation and colonialism, alone. It’s the fear factor, the same one the Congress operates under and so too, the presidency.
Just one question: is there anything to the notion that Jane is pro-Israel? I’ve had some diaries on the recommend list so that I came to doubt that assertion.
I think fdl could highlight the issue with a sidebar similar to what it is doing with the Bradley Manning issue.
I also think it is worth thinking very carefully about whether BDS should be directed at Israel in general or at Israeli activities/businesses in the illegally occupied territories. The latter is _much_ easier to advocate in the U.S. political environment.
The Irish have been pretty much free to openly organize and use blogs to advertise boycotts Israeli products in numerous Irish cities. The work of the Ireland Palestine Solidarity group has been incredible. But over there, you do not seem to get attacks against your work as we do here.
Obviously, the Israelis could care less what Irish activists think. But they care a lot about what Americans think and what our politicians believe. I don’t think Ireland has an AIPAC that threatens its politicians.
When pro-Israeli bloggers can’t respond, they often just post a food recipe.
You’re not a progressive.
I don’t approve of name calling. I don’t consider it argument, but I think calling my mother a fascistic donkey-fucking whore is colorful and certainly not cause for banishment. Although I see what you’re driving at. If I respond to your observation about my mother with an observation about your father, the thread gets larger with no gain for most.
Don’t know if it’s technically possible but I’d prefer an arrangement where people do their own censoring. If, for example, I don’t like your posts, I’d like to be able to tell the machine I don’t want to see any more of jeffroby, something like a spam filter. Posters then get an idea of what the community thinks of them.
Thanks for that clarification. It was a while back that I read about this flotilla, and left with the impression that it was Turkish organized. This will not be the first trip for the Audacity of Hope, which is an obvious criticism of Obama retreat from Cairo.
Thanks for the links, Edward. I used Turkish-backed’ because it wwas written that way where I read about it, and also that Turkish flags have legitimized the flotilla efforts in many eyes around the world.
Because Boycott, Divestment & Sanctions is worthy of support on its merits. Because Teller didn’t define it for you (an omission to be sure) is no reason to reject an entire movement.
You’re not a
progressivemember of the left in good standing.Randall,
I’m at a loss to understand why you’re about done with discussing this. Is it because you feel people shouldn’t criticize Israeli policies similarly to the ways we criticize such policies in other countries?
I vote a thousand times yes just to piss you the fuck off.
That sounds a lot like compromising with ourselves before we even get to the table.
Don’t need to tell you how we feel about people that do that!
Made it to UAA from Wasilla. Lots of accidents along the 45-mile way – big snow event last night & now, icy roads. I’ll catch up after I give an exam to how many of my 115 kids who made it here through the ice.
Thanks, everyone, for being mostly civil. I hope it stays that way.
I think it’s a very worthwhile endeavor. I’ve been an adamant opponent of the Israeli actions against the Palestinians since the Sabra-Shatila massacre back in ’82. That led me to many good books and to the view that we shouldn’t be aligned with any nation that kills its own people. Does that sound familiar?
You’re correct in implying that we, the USA, is hypocritical when it comes to who we do and who we do not support. But in the case of Israel, we are supporting it with yearly foreign aid funding and defense equipment. Armaments killing Palestinians in Gaza or elsewhere are often stamped, made in USA. In regards to Israel, we are as guilty as they are in continuing the inhumane Gaza siege and the killings and imprisonment of Palestinians fighting their military occupation, whose sole purpose it is to steal their lands.
After all of your experiences at Daily Kos and My Left Wing with IP diaries, it is hard to believe that you could suggest something, a sidebar advocating for Palestinian justice, here, that will never come to pass, however galant.
This diary alone will inspire a call from pro-Israel bloggers to come and defend Israel from these anti-Semitic bastards. Didn’t you get the treatment when you were more active in IP?
I abhor what the government of Israel is doing.
That said we all have limited resources, including FDL.
At this point in time, with Obama beating the drums for $55 billion in support for new nuclear reactors, I would GREATLY prefer to have FDL direct its time, energy and money to making sure loan guarantees don’t happen for the nuclear power industry. Congress is set to take up this issue soon and I wouldn’t bet on them doing the right thing without tremendous pressure.
My personal energy these days is going towards that effort and, given the scope of the potential disaster here and the current disaster in Japan, the Israeli government’s horrible policies take a secondary position. We haven’t built new nuclear reactors for 30 years, since Chernobyl, but the gears are in motion now to reverse that. To me, this is an absolutely urgent priority.
Talk to me about energy to dismantle Israel’s apartheid policies once it’s clear we’ve removed the danger of new nuclear reactors being built here.
There are many issues which confront the left, both domestic and foreign. Now that Israel and the US are isolated from the international community on the matter of the plight of the Palestinians in all of its aspects, it is hard to see how we can ignore it just because the issue of nuclear energy has come to the fore in Japan.
We are as responsible for what is happening over there, the human rights abuses and so forth, as the Israelis. We are in fact funding and condoning it.
Of course FDL should support BDS. It will be difficult for some of us because many progressive American Jews are staunch zionists who will likely think we are nuts and antisemitic. It’s time to say “ENOUGH!” to these people.
First, the use of acronyms that aren’t widely known and recognized is poor communication. One should at least write it out in longhand once before going into acronymic shorthand. Even googling “BDS” when it led to BDS sites didn’t immediately explain what the acronym precisely meant.
Second, this is a great cause. Israel is currently operating something very much akin to an apartheid state and voices need to be raised against these policies.
Thirdly, why is this sort of criticism of Israeli government policies simplistically branded as “Anti-israeli”? Were attempts to pressure the Republic of South Africa into reforming its own apartheid policies “Anti-RSA”? I’d argue they were unambiguously Pro-RSA insofar as the aim was to move that country in a better, fairer, more modern and enlightened direction. Even most of the people within the RSA who opposed sanctions at the time in hindsight now recognize the benefits of having pressure applied to force needed change In the same way, strong frank criticism of Israeli apartheid policies are for the most part intended to make Israel a better place for all its people and a better neighbor within the region.
I support pressuring Israel into progressive reform using every non-violent means possible and I consider such a stance very much a Pro-israeli position to take. It is, I would argue, those who resist bringing Israel into compliance with modern Western norms of human rights policy that are Anti-israel. And those who would try to prevent even a frank discussion on these issues taking place I would characterize as not only Anti-israeli, but completely out of step with the entirety of modern enlightened liberal culture.
One cannot hold an entire state and its policies as being completely immune from strong critical examination and be a liberal in any sense, nevermind a progressive liberal. The two are essentially mutually contradictory and incompatible positions to hold. Any discussion space where criticism of Israeli policy is taboo has no claim to holding progressive values. This strikes me as trivially self-evident.
The issue of nuclear energy has come to the fore HERE as well as in Japan. Since Obama has started pushing for Congress to approve $55 billion in loan guarantees, it became an issue in the United States as well. Are you proposing we ignore the danger of new nuclear reactors being built? If we don’t take responsibility for opposing it, and with the effort needed to succeed, what are we condemning ourselves and future generations to?
greenwarrior,
After coming around to agreeing that BDS is a moral response to our relationship to the I/P problems, I too felt that environmental issues are more important than BDS. And then Fukuskima happened, which underlined my concerns.
What I’d like to be able to do myself, especially if young people actually do become more empowered in Egypt, Tunisia, Syria, Jordan, Lebanon, Turkey and Palestine (the PLO/Hamas paradigm is as harsh as any in the Eastern Mediterranean) than has been the case, is work – along with Israeli kids – on getting some comprehensive environmental reform unions going there, involving US, European and Asian partners. Environmental awareness is a key to fighting the image that war achieves anything useful.
But with the new laws coming into place in an increasingly racist Israel, I feel compelled to bring this issue to the table for discussion.
Our support for Israel and the continuing vilification of Iran combines the two issues addressed here: the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians at the hands of the Israelis with US backing and the blatant hypocrisy of attacking Iran for its nuclear program when that nation is a signatory to the nuclear non-proliferation treaty with all the obligations and rights that entails and the Israelis and American government continue to refuse to acknowledge that Israel has in excess of 200 nuclear warheads.
Nuclear disaster can come as easily to the Middle East and Israel in particular if there’s a huge earthquake near Dimona as it came to Japan in the form of Fukushima.
And, I might add, our treatment of Bradley Manning is a page out of Israel’s treatment of Mordechai Vanunu, the man who blew the whistle on Israel’s nuclear program and who spent 11 years in solitary confinement in an Israeli prison after a secret trial (USA, USA, USA). So was the shooting of people trying to go to the aid of wounded civilians that Wikileaks revealed to the world when it aired the tapes of the AP people being murdered by US helicopter gunships. Standard operating procedure for the “honorable” Israeli Defense Forces is to shoot anyone trying to render aid to people wounded by Israeli fire.
We’ve thrown our lot in with barbarians and we will be remembered as barbarians.
I concur with the sentiments of ET and the BDS movement. FDL should take a stand for Human Rights with regard to the I/P issue in favor of BDS and in favor of Palestine.
I understand and totally share your concern and shergold’s awareness of U.S. material support for Israeli government policies designed to cleanse the Palestinians.
Re the nuclear issue, not only is nuclear power dangerous in and of itself, but I can’t help but be concerned that more reactors will be not only be for generating electric power but will also be a cover for weapons manufacture.
For myself, I would rather see FDL put what resources exist into making sure nuclear doesn’t raise its head zombie-like from the dead. That’s assuming that any of us can influence what FDL might choose to focus on.
For me, it’s nuclear and habeas corpus (see Bradley Manning). We currently do not have habeas corpus protections in 2011 America. That is a very dangerous situation for anyone protesting anything.
I understand your priorities completely. Your highest priorities at this moment in time differ from mine.
I vote for you to put the definition of “BDS” and any other acronyms in the first goddam paragraph.
Thanks for your kind words.
I just did that. Sorry for not having done it in the first place, storyofo.
Thanks for this Jeff. I see it the same way. Speaking for myself – I don’t think FDL would last six months as a democracy.
Latest from the US Campaign to End the Occupation, another reason to “yes” this idea of BDS:
“On March 19, the Israeli army fired artillery shells into the occupied and besieged Palestinian Gaza Strip, instantly killing Emad Farajallah and Qassem Abu Otaiwi, both aged 16 and both from al-Nussairat Refugee Camp.
The ordnance that killed Emad and Qassem may have been one of 337,861 artillery shells, valued at $9.2 million, which the United States licensed to Israel and paid for with our taxes from 2000 to 2006.
And that’s not all. Three days later, the Israeli army fired four artillery shells into a residential area of Gaza City. According to the Palestinian Center for Human Rights, “the third shell landed near a number of boys who were playing football near their houses.” Two boys–Mohammed Harara and Mohammed al-Hilu–were killed and their bodies dismembered.
The fourth shell killed yet another child, as well as his grandfather, while they were trying to reach their car to evacuate the wounded to a hospital. 11 Palestinians, including eight children, also were injured in the barrage.
These shells may have been from the total of more than 47 million pieces of ammunition and ordnance, valued at $9.5 million, which the United States authorized for delivery to Israel from 2007 to 2009.
The misuse of U.S. weapons to commit these types of human rights abuses violates U.S. laws.
Yet, securing more weapons for Israel to brutalize Palestinians once again will be the top lobbying item on the agenda when the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) convenes its annual policy conference in Washington, DC, this May.”
In most cases I think it is the government of Israel that people respond to as the people to not input into its decisions, even though a majority is likely to agree. I recall the people’s support of the Gaza massacre of 2008-9 when 1,400 mostly civilian Gazans, including over 300 children were killed.
Still, there are still some leftists left in Israel confronting its racists and colonist policies. That may not be the Labor party, which is no more, but at least there are activists, and strong voices against the government. And their adversarial role should be called out.
Rayne got banned at FDL? Really? I thought she was the organizer of MyFDL (I would have said “moderator” but I don’t mean in the sense of modding comments).
Hmmm. Now THAT’s constructive…
I have argued for a primary or third party challenge to Obama for months and nope I’m still here.
Rusty don’t know a thing about hope he’s ok was he banned?
Screwed well was he banned that does sound kind of iffy.
Kwiatkowski again was he banned? calling people liars well did he have facts and links to back himself up with? As far as arguing with Mods we all do that
Rayne however banned I thought she was a Mod? I have not seen her do anything half as bad as what I do.
Yes; and Amen.
This news comes on the heels of information that the Israeli Defense Force (IDF) announced it has formed a special unit to “monitor” foreign nationals opposed to its policies, including the flotilla.
Cool so I probably have an Israeli IDF and and FBI file? I wonder if I can get banned fro traveling to Israel for my comments here?
Share the Capital, stop building settlements, a just Peace now (details on a just Peace we can work out on another thread).
Have I said enough to be banned from Israel yet? Oh wait all the Israelis who attacked the last peace boat are war criminals!
The Lake is about ideas defend your ideas even if they are unpopular we have all done it at one time or another refusing to talk much less discuss is kind of childish.
If you want write a diary defending Israel. The Lake gets better because of different viewpoints.
Now then how is a just peace for Palestine and an end to the occupation and horrible treatment of the people there hurtful to Israel?
GW, above I had mentioned that I was considering a diary asking if FDL might want to mobilize for Energy Solutions; this program was inspirational (except you had to watch Tom Friedman here and there).
http://www.pbs.org/journeytoplanetearth/plan_b/index.html
That said, I don’t know that anti-nuke/pro alternatives would preclude working on BDS; it could not only help Palestinians stay alive, but move us along the road to ME peace, which would help the world enormously. Obama has bailed on it; what a surprise that Gates showed up in Israel last week, and even went to Ramallah. I hope it’s a good thing, but whoever might have ever pictured him there in the capacity of peace-hoper?
If I hadn’t read the threads I doubt I would know that the BDS movement meant to Boycott, Disinvest, and Sanction… Israel. It would be helpful to spell this out very early in the diary for those who haven’t heard of it before. Makes for more effective communication of your point.
And yes, we need to hold our Israeli allies accountable for their actions. I support it too.
If we get the go ahead to do this we need to organize a plan we need objectives like getting media attention, educating ourselves and others on what a BDS movement is who to boycott what products to boycott maybe going to Arab restaurants and stores and asking if we can hang the list of boycott products on the wall. Along with stories of unarmed American Peace Activists killed by Israeli solders.
We must remember to stress we support Israel’s right to exist but we want Palestine to be free too.
Cutting off American aid to Israel in this economy could be quite popular.
We need to identify things Americans can do for support like a boycott and things that might be popular with voters like an end to Israeli aid.
We need to give people a way to get involved once they are involved its harder for the media to ignore the stories. We need goals that we can get passed in the government like an end to aid to Israel.
We need our own polling. We need to brainstorm ideas on what a Just Peace would look like.
For threads this long we do need numbered comments:( Still its good we got a bunch of interest on this topic.
Thank you very much. But I wasn’t at all exaggerating. With the “Catfood Commission” it was a whole month without a definition. A word to the wise is sufficient.
It’s useful to ask for something as reasonable and low-key as a ‘button’ on the right side of the main myfdl page. Asking points out obvious double standards, if the response is ‘ . . . ‘ or ‘no’.
As a practical matter it allows plenty of activity to organize a boycott over, and an effective boycott/sanction of activities/businesses in the occupied territories would have a real and powerful effect in Israel overall. And as a practical matter it also makes it easier to bring less-well-informed good-hearted people over to the BDS side.
This distinction, by the way, is a common one already in BDS efforts, for example the recent effort at UC Berkeley. It all depends on whether you care if you’re ineffectual or not.
I’ll check out your link, Wendy.
It’s just that with the disaster at Fukushima, I think we have a real chance at this moment in time to have success in fighting more nuclear and getting more solar and wind.
I don’t think there’s any special leverage like that with the Israeli/Palestinian situation. It’s my opinion that that’ll be much harder to influence than the nuclear situation right now.
I’d like to take advantage of the tragedy unfolding in Japan to block more nuclear here and to even start shutting down our aging nuclear plants that have the same design as Fukushima, sit on earthquake fault lines, and/or in hurricane zones on the Gulf of Mexico where storms have been getting more and more severe and where the droughts make the huge use of water for nuclear power somewhat of an obscenity even in normal operating conditions.
I probably don’t know enough about this particular topic to argue too much.
You know what’s really interesting about this comment? The question as to whether or not I care about being ineffectual. It’s been so long since I even had occasion to wonder about that I almost didn’t know what to do! I mean, it’s been YEARS where every idea, every thought, was an obvious non-starter because it’s never happening.
The idea that something I may do or be involved with could actually accomplish something blows my 20 something, came of age in the Bush years mind!
Why do you consider the Israelis our allies? Is it something they provide in a strategic or tactical sense? If they provide us something, what is that?
Yes vote here and a big thank you for asking.
Thanks, Phil. A huge spotlight needs to be kept on Israel from now until some semblance of what passes for humane treatment begins being directed towards the people in the Israeli-run concentration camps.
I hear you; there is one awaiting a County Commission rezoning in Pueble, CO. They haven’t secured water yet, so it may not fly at all. We all knew the spinmeisters would be out full force, but the push has been downright embarrassing: so many deceptions.
Still, FDL may not take either up as a cause; either would be fine with me, as long as a push forward on energy alternatives would be part of it. It pays to have ways forward in any movement, IMO.
ET,
You need to read the old Aesop fable about “The Goose that Laid the Golden Eggs.”
My position on Israel has always been that they should return to the ’67 borders.
IMHO, the occupied territories are trending more and more in the direction of the Warsaw Ghetto (World War II).
Perhaps I missed it, but I think it should be mentioned that our support for Israel probably has a lot to do with our dependence on Middle Eastern Oil. The more we get off our oil addiction, the less it will be necessary to support Zionist influences in Israel.
We haven’t been able to extricate ourselves from Iraq or Afghanistan. Now we’re in Libya. I don’t see any evidence that the left side of the Democratic party has too much influence.
I think FDL is already “in the deep-end,” way, way out in front on a lot of dangerous issues. Specifically I worry about the desperately needed reporting on surveillance, civil rights, and Manning. FDL has also tried to hold Wall Street accountable and the telecoms. That includes Democratic supporters of Obama who have unbelievable influence in the areas of personal finance. I think people have forgotten how many times over the years Jane of Arc has taken on some of the roughest, nastiest characters around.
ET, I hold you in high regard for all the quality you’ve provided FDL over the years, but I strenuously disagree with what appears to me so publicly calling Jane out on this. I think you owe her an apology.
I was mortified to learn that only 500 people signed up (initially) as a “friend” “benefactor,” or “Gosprey.” That’s bullsh&t. I kick in $240/year and I know I’m just flat out stealing all the great content.
If we had 5,000 donors, than maybe Jane would have more options. She could beef up networking security, hire more people and maybe consider it.
yes, we have that issue here as well. the NRC is considering license renewal applications for the two in south Texas that are due to expire in 2027 and 2028. by then they’ll already be beyond their pull date, to say nothing of they already leak. midnight tonight is the deadline for submitting public comments, which i’ve already done.
and yes, we need the focus to be on renewables. solar and wind and cafe standards for fuel efficiency in cars and electric vehicles and people growing some of their own food.
Agreed. Given the resources, FDL can support a lot of things, but to focus intensely on issues, it must pick its battles. I’m happy to see the focus on Manning as we have a serious habeas corpus issue in our country.
It drove me crazy to see all the energy directed towards the public option. My opinion at the time was that it was a waste of energy and resources that could have been better spent. Single payer was what was needed and if that wasn’t winnable or possible, then I’d have preferred FDL to use their resources elsewhere.
I talked about nuclear earlier in this thread because, with what’s happening now in Japan, i believe it’s possible that with a concerted effort, obama’s push for building new nuclear could get turned around and we could get the aging plants on their way to decommissioning.
Rayne was paid staff for MyFDL and her name is no longer in the About Us button . . . she wasn’t banned that I know of, but she disappeared about the same time RUSTY and a couple of others melted down in the WORST of ways I’ve ever seen. Pure fucking loons.
I thought screwedagain had been posting comments all day today? Perhaps another similar screen name . . . I miss Rayne, she ran this ship tight and solid in all ways.
Well said Jeff, thanks for the recap.
Do you ever click on links the diary authors post? Where stuff is explained and discussed in full?
Because a good diary author summerizes an issue and source, and points to it, offers some personal opinion on it all and opens the comments to others.
Life is simple, don’t fuck it up.
I disagree with your ‘Catfood Commission’ example.
I don’t recall being confused about it, the phrase was everywhere in the blogosphere, and although I don’t have memory recall for specifics, I have to believe the phrase was discussed and explained sufficiently in any diary I read on the subject by Dayen, Walker, and other FDL/MyFDL staff.
A search of their diaries on the subject would likely support either your or my opinion on this . . . but I’ll stick to my position . . . you can do the research as you made the initial claim.
*G*
Many interesting comments above.
I don’t have a yes or no answer ET.
1) It’s not my blog, I’m uncomfortable discussing policy decisions for the blog. If I had something I was concerned/passionate, I’d contact Mz. Hamsher direct to discuss it, before I ever mentioned it in the forum. That’s just me.
2) One particular reason I’d DEFINITELY do that on this issue is because if it did approval and was implemented, Mz. Hamsher and FDL staff and pagers and likely some who comment would be immediately targeted in all KINDS of ways, including personal lives and more.
That’s a huge risk to ask someone to take. Especially a blog owner/operator.
My analogy is I wouldn’t openly ask teachers to protest about things on the sidewalks of their schools. This is asking them to give up their jobs as they WILL be singled out and harassed.
The times dictate there will be blowback on PERSONAL levels for those in such matters.
So, I will be very interested in the FDL response to you ET.
And if they give you the green light and get into it also, then the effort will have my full support.
Life has become incredibly complicated in the past 15 years or so, in regards to freedoms and civil rights. N there’s really NO ONE to catch our backs if the machine wants to silence us.
Uh, hard to respond.
If you can believe me, it didn’t even cross my mind that someone might think this diary, the way it has been written and updated, publicly called Jane out on this. Rather, having thought about this for awhile, I picked a day of some significance (March 30th – Global BDS Action Day) to ask what I strongly feel is an honest question.
I have been critical of Jane and others here over the past six years. Openly. And I’ve learned from criticism of my statements, made by others.
First off - if Jane or anyone else feels I have publicly called them out with this piece, I sincerely apologize.
Last off – What is it about this diary that compelled you to feel it was a criticism of any particular person?
I’m not anticipating an “official” fdl response, nor did I expect one. If there is, I’ll share it or keep it where it needs to be, depending on what is best for the long-term growth of the fdl community, and not just from my point of view. The people running this wonderful place have long regarded me as somewhat of a loose cannon on deck. And for many good reasons.
This is an important topic for discussion. The reasons for BDS actions against Israeli policies are not diminishing day by day, they are growing.
I’ll be writing about the Rachel Corrie civil suit continuation early next week, and that is another subject. I’ll be covering the 2011 Gaza flotilla, perhaps from one of the boats.
The bottom line for me, though, is that I trust the folks pulling the behind-the-scenes levers here more than any other place I hang out.
ET,
I know some of the really nasty and powerful people Jane has taken on over the years. I won’t even name some of them here, because they have too many ways to hurt her and FDL.
Frankly, I think she has put principle first too many times and picked too many fights with people who are way, way too powerful.
My concern is that issue could be the tipping point. NSA could plant something on the site and then use that as an excuse to close FDL up.
That was my most serious concern.
You are a terrific person and over the years imho have consistently been a rare gift to FDL in terms of the high quality comments and posts you routinely provide.
This has always been a decisive issue at FDL.
SHOULD HAVE BEEN: “This has always been a DIVISIVE issue at FDL”
Right on and good luck.
And thanks for all your work.
Boo, the witch hunts never stopped.
Great comment and thanks for putting to words some thoughts I didn’t.
This is heavy turf wading into this issue on this level, here at FDL or anywhere publicly.
People disappear for less, n history has shown it.
It has always been divisive and will continue to be that. That’s no reason not to talk, though.
What is with the palpable fear surrounding frankly discussing the issue of Israeli human rights abuses? Israeli politics is a bottomless dark pit of Right Wing craziness, militaristic belligerence, extremist religious intolerance and overtly racist policies. I can see all this getting a pass from the Religious Right with their nutty end of days scenarios, their racist towelhead rhetoric and their pathological embrace of military culture, but us? Why would we throw in our lot with that bunch of crazies on this issue?
Larue@9:49
Much appreciated.
ET and Kurt:
This post is still up.
The good guys lost, but the vote at UC Berkeley (on boycotting products from the occupied territories) was very close. It would’ve had a big PR impact. A vote on boycotting everything from Israel as a whole would not have been.