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The above ad, by Anti-Republican Crusaders, which they are encouraging people to distribute openly and widely, featuring actor George Clooney, is aimed at progressives who feel betrayed by Obama’s policies. As in other pushes to draw people who had once supported Obama back into the fold, it is – to borrow the term Obama has been using on the stump this past week – Sketchy.
Has anyone yet caught Clooney openly and ardently defending the NDAA and its onerous indefinite detention provisions, that Obama is now defending to the hilt?
Or the position of his Justice Department that the banksters are unprosecutable?
Or Obama’s stepped up program against medical marijuana clinics and users of medical marijuana, many of whom are Veterans and extremely ill?
Or his full-speed-ahead support of Shell Oil’s Arctic offshore drilling?
Or his rubber stamping of Department of Energy policy regarding nuclear power in the post-Fukushima world?
Or his scuttling of the Copenhagen climate conference?
Or his intentional torture of Bradley Manning?
Or his unprecedented war on whistleblowers?
Of course they haven’t
Clooney and his ilk cannot defend those policies, so he and the others avoid them or plead ignorance, like Congresswoman Wasserman Schultz did above.
They are wearing blinders.
And – yes, Romney is the worse of two evils.
Unfortunately, my spiritual beliefs preclude me from voting for war criminals, so nothing Clooney says will influence me. Perhaps others.
Meanwhile, I’m content working hard to convince people NOT to vote for Mitt Romney.
And getting ready to vote for some progressive ballot initiatives (local Alaska ones).
And some Democrats.
Just not the war criminal one.
142 Comments
George Clooney, bless his very talented aunt, is of the financial class not the least bit discommoded by Obama and his policies. Maybe George’s world doesn’t extend much beyond himself.
I didn’t know about his talented aunt. Everyone can use a mentor, eh?
Have no idea how wealthy he is, but his attempt to convince real progressives to compromise their values only offers halting the specter of a Prez Romney as its reward.
“Democrats eat their own.”
I am not a democrat. I am a liberal. I will vote for those who share my principles and oppose those that betray them.
Recent history suggests that democrats are only really liberal when they are the party out of power.
Electioneering rhetoric and bluster aside, I’m not so sure Romney would turn out to be the greater evil in practice. Not only that, but I think Obama is just getting started and we haven’t seen the end of his right-ward journey.
In any event, assuming Romney wants to be, and tries to be, the greater evil, surely the Democrats will rally to stop them?
Never mind.
As for Clooney, I don’t give a donkey’s tail what he thinks.
I suppose I don’t either, but his attitude is emblematic of celebrity figures and quasi-progressive pols who refuse to take a closer look at the national security state, the endless wars, and refusal to rationally deal with climate change and nuclear waste problems threatening to totally engulf us.
I’ve never understood why we should listen to megawealthy entertainers on issues of national importance. I guess we as a society have degenerated so far that those who live in an imaginary world of lies and acting are seen as a spokesman for the real world which is full of lies and poor acting.
It is somewhat chilling that Obama’s biggest financial supporters are from the Illusion Industry on the so called Left Coast.
Will we ever be able to deny these Illusions and Myths that we have a Democratic system and reject the System of Tyranny not just the actors in this madness?
Local political bodies and voters on local issues seem less swayed by what entertainers and celebrities say or proclaim. So all is not lost, when it comes to your school district or the dogcatcher.
That being said, I’ve seen the full cycle of a rise and fall out of local politics, and how – at its height – it morphed into whacky celebrity, living as I have around Wasilla for the past 29 years.
My comment about Clooney was directed not at you, but at him, not that he would care in the slightest.
But of course, you are right. What really hurts is to see people like Ellsberg succumbing.
Quite the litany, ET, it is all very disillusioning…! 8-(
– it morphed into whacky celebrity…
Capped off with Caribou Barbie’s antics, ET…? ;-)
I rarely see any of those people anymore. They’ve moved on, so to say…
Won’t be voting for war criminal Obama or wannabe war criminal Romney. Or our complicit incumbent Senator or Rep.
Clooney hitched his wagon to Obama during the 2008 campaign, and seems willing to ignore the “more unpleasant” of Obama’s policies. Can’t count the number of campaign emails I received asking for $15 donation for a chance to attend a dinner with Obama at Clooney’s house. Ha!
I sometimes reply.
Told Obama that if he could get Bradley Manning to the dinner with us, I’d probably be able to pull in $2.5 million from my fellow fucking retards.
Romney the worse evil? I agree with Glenn Ford that Obama is the more effective evil.
As to Ellsberg – he’s just getting old and Clooney is a political insophisticate.
But here’s the thing. These articles decrying those of us who will not vote or vote 3rd party are becoming more numerous and more shrill. Democratic party apparatchiks are getting nervous and they know there are many out here who simply wil NOT vote for someone as contemptible as Obama. What fascinates me is that so often, though not with Ellsberg, -somewhat with Clooney, the favorite tactic is condescension. How DARE you step outside the Democratic Marching Order? What naive children you are! And this is supposed to garner votes? The Democrats are suffering from abject cognitive dissonance
Maybe there’s a method to their madness, for the party apparatchiks, that is. This strategy works well with a lot of self-identifying Democrats, especially those who don’t, and don’t want to, pay attention.
Every Obama supporter I know, prides themselves on their ability to think rationally and looks down upon non-Democrats as being irrational sheep voting against their self-interests.
The irony is beyond compare.
When I ask if they will also support Romney when he follows Obama’s policies on civil liberties, drones, environmental protections, trade agreements, etc…, most don’t even know what I’m talking about.
All that they seem to know is that “Rethugs” are vewwy, vewwy, baaad, and that Dems are “for the people”.
The few that are aware of Obama’s “accomplishments” don’t seem to care and have consciously decided that principles they professed to hold so dearly during the Bush years are expendable now that the team must win at all costs.
Rosemary Clooney is/was George Clooney’s aunt.
Wealthy enough.
The term used to be limousine liberals.
Chalk another one up for “I hope to learn something new every day.”
Look at what I just dug up… Bruce Springsteen – “Forward” (Obama Campaign Song) – 10/18/2012, Ohio…
Never been much of a Springsteen fan. He first struck me as somebody who tried to fuse Dylan and the Moody Blues, with a bit of off-Broadway schtick in his band’s stage routines, which make for great shows.
In the clip you linked, he looks very down-to-earth, though, fitting for his role of trying to save Ohio for the Obomber.
Forward – a picture I took, with my wife (who mentors young teachers in Alaska Native villages), a guy who collected folk music of Yemen while spying for the CIA, the guy who brought the Kalakala back to Seattle, and the guy who developed a rapid coagulation bandage for the British Army, using King crab shell elements as its base, under a statue of Lenin in Fremont, Seattle.
Isn’t Clooney a
warmonger“humanitarian” interventionist on Darfur?As much as I would like to see everyone of every political stripe vote their conscience, I know it won’t happen.
Too many have drunk the koolaid, bought the hype.
On the right, there are far too many of the Tea Party persuasion who will vote against Obama, regardless of their distaste for Romney.
On the left, there are far too many who are so afraid of Romney that they will hold their nose and vote for Obama.
On some other planet, there are a minority who actually believe that Obama deserves another term, or that Romney deserves a shot at it.
There is another minority. My minority who understand that Obama has disqualified himself for the reasons pointed out above by Edward Teller and elsewhere by Daniel Ellsberg, and that there is ample prima facie evidence that Romney is unfit to serve. We will vote our conscience, Rocky Anderson in my case.
My plea to the rest of you.
If you are from ID, OK, or UT, where Romney has more than a 25% lead, or even AL, AK, AR, KY, LA, TX, or WV, where it’s more than 15%, or if you are from HI or VT, where it’s Obama by more than 25%, or even CA, MD, MA, NY, or RI, with Obama by more than 15%, please consider looking critically at all options, including third party candidates on the ballot or approved for write in, and vote your conscience.
Vote for which ever candidate most closely reflects your positions and solutions.
Join us in sending a message that we are angry, and that we don’t intend to continue to put up with this travesty.
http://www.voterocky.org/solutions
Ooo! Try and make a youtube video of these people. We can then start a youtube channel – “The Loony Cloonies”, showing their ignorance in all its disillusioning non-glory.
In fact, partly for balance, but moreso because irrationality and ‘sheepleness’ is spread across the political spectrum, and Americans deserve to be shamed for their irresponsible tribalism, a parallel video channel showing republican bots should be set up.
I’ve seen a couple of videos of clueless voters from 2008 – one directed at Republicans, and one directed at Democrats. But probably the worst in this genre was a clip by Howard Stern, who asked a guy what he thought about Obama’s choice of Palin as VP.
He had no idea that Palin was the R VP.
Then there’s the “Smoked Salmon Socialists”
mfi
Hmmm. Am thinking, what about a petition that reads,
“We’re disillusioned with George Clooney, and think he should go suck on a rock”.
The petition could then lay out a couple of the hundreds of Obama’s shortcomings, as per the Obama Scandal List.
It should also mention that a President Romney is expected to be a similar disaster, but that Lesser of Two Evils is a stupid voting strategy.
“Well, I didn’t get everything I wanted.”
Or maybe it’s “Well, I got 5% of what Obama had massive public support and massive congressional majority to be able to accomplish if he wanted to, but chose not to because he’s an absurd sellout.”
“Democrats find singular issues and go, ‘Well, I didn’t get everything I wanted.’”
Four points:
1. Clooney’s “singular issue” is Darfur and Obama has been quite responsive.
2. It’s not that the American People didn’t get everything we wanted from Obama. We got nothing.
3. Who gives a shit about Democrats? We’re talking about the country and the world.
4. Who gives a shit what Limousine Liberals like Clooney and Springsteen say? They — like John Kerry, Jay Z, Beyonce, Obama and Clinton — are all superrich and their interests are not aligned with the American People.
Nader received 97,000 votes in Florida in 2000. George W. Bush. was 500 votes ahead in Florida when the Supreme Court shut down the recount. George Bush started two wars which cost up to a million lives. Does anyone think a President Gore would have killed that many people?
American citizens vote for people who make life and death decisions for millions outside our borders. We have no right NOT to choose the lesser of two evils.
Maybe Gore should have won his home state. Florida then would have been inconsequential.
What else would have been stolen? Reality is a fact.
I guess the democrats are sensing that we may be pissed off more than we are afraid of republicans and might actually not vote for Obama. Seems like every blog I go to you have an article telling us that although they dont support Obama they fear Romney more. I see it differently, I think the best chance we have in preserving the social safety nets is with a Romney presidency. If Romney wins and starts hacking on social programs the democrats are going to have to fight against him if they want to remain relevant. This is not the case if Obama is reelected. If he is reelected the democrats will remained disarmed and allow Obama and the republicans to have their way against the american people. A President Obama who does not have to worry about getting reelected will be a progressive and poor and working family nightmare. In the long term the best thing that can happen for the progressive movement is an Obama loss in November.Because four more years of republican rule will have more people looking for change and because it shows democrats that they cant take progressive voters for granted. If we survived Reagan and the Bushes we will survive Romney. I am not so sure that would be the case with Obama. Once you voluntarily disarm its difficult to recover from. I am a swing state voter (Ohio) and I proudly voted for Dr, Stein.
Ah, valatius, as regards your second sentence, THAT is precisely what both the Republican AND the Democratic “believers” consider that THEY are doing.
It is a matter of opinion, you see?
And amounts, when there are so very few choices, which the R’s and the D’s INSIST upon … even sign a CONTRACT to enforce … to NO meaningful choice at all.
And, if that paradigm is all that matters, then the drift toward increasing evil is both inevitable and unstoppable.
It is similar to the “belief” that, “Money is all that matters.”
When such a “belief” obtains, when greed is considered “good”, then HOW one GETS money does not, in fact cannot, matter …
The belief that you espouse, as well as the belief that money is “all that matters”, both tend toward total destruction, both of the Rule of Law and of civil society … both are the tools of tyranny and neither may give a damn about human beings or the world which we all inhabit.
Both are one-way tickets to suffering for the many and ever more power for the self-selected “elite”, those who embrace authoritarian rule and the belief that the elite may do as they wish, even to destroying any other human beings, to killing them or impoverishing them, when ever, where ever, and who ever the “chosen” elite may choose … even as Obama HAS declared the power to do …
You might, therefore, wish to more deeply think through your second sentence and the implications therein contained. Or not.
Excellent post, ET, thank you. I recommend that it be front-paged, for both it, and the FDL community, deserve nothing less.
DW
Reality, Rev Bev, also compels us to consider that Gore did not convince many that he had a worthwhile grasp of our actual shared reality, and his choice of Lieberman hardly served as evidence of that grasp. Gore was silent, for example, when Clinton did away with Glass-Steagall, and, as well, showed little evidence of inclination to protest the, as I hold it, un-Constitutional and quite criminal insertion by SCOTUS, of itself, into the 2000 election … rather, he said he would not protest, for the “good” of the country …
Reality must compel us to acknowledge that it was SCOTUS who decided, deliberately and intentionally, the outcome of that election, not those who have and had a Constitutional RIGHT to vote their conscience for their vote, and the vote of everyone else, does NOT belong to any party or faction. The choice of who shall control one’s society is one of the inalienable rights of INDIVIDUALS to determine, for themselves and by themselves, what best serves their interests and, as they best understand it, the true interests of the society of which each of us, in reality, are a part.
YMMV, of course.
DW
How many thousands of voters did Kathleen Harris remove illegally? It had nothing to do with Nader.
Although I agree with the point of this post, I have to point out that Obama is simply the ‘face’ used to market what is essentially a criminal conspiracy whose principle focus is the maintenance of a somnambulant electorate.
In the post-WWII era, the two-party system’s main purpose has been to run interference for what has been called the Military-Industrial-Complex.
Whether you agree with the MIC label or not, the two parties constitute a veil, obscuring completely the actual power-structure that controls our country, and it’s people.
Obama, and Romney are the very faces of this deceit.
It is defeating this deceit that is necessary, and so far, I haven’t heard of a plan that gives hope of achieving that end, and I can’t think of one myself.
I continue to go to the pols in order to have a voice at the state, and local level.
I’ll vote for Jill Stein so as to be able to face myself.
I do not disagree with much, but the mess did start with the shoddiness of the Fla vote and count, as I recall. Thanks for your summary. It was all pretty ugly; I sadly recall when the recount was stopped. Such a sad day.
If you have a choice of voting for Ceasar or Attila the Hun. Who do you vote for? You can either vote your values for a third party candidate or you can vote pragmatically.
For example, you can vote for Ralph Nader and do nothing to prevent the destruction of the environment, bring about two wars and appoint judges who will support everything Mr. Teller lists above. But I’m sure all the people who voted for Nader slept better knowing they voted their values than those who voted for Al Gore.
Value oriented voters comfort themselves by thinking about all the lives they saved except for the 72,000 per year that will be lost due to lack of health insurance , those countless lives lost due to increasing pollution levels, greater poverty or the additional wars and human rights violations that will result from my value oriented vote.
Of course, other value oriented voters will also be voting this year including the Christian right.
Like conservative value oriented voters these individuals tend to ignore things like facts such as Mitt Romney’s largest campaign donors are the banks that people Mr. Teller rails against. They don’t view meek progress Bank of American is now the l3th largest entity in the U.S., it was 5th as progress at.
Value oriented voters are the sort of abolitionists who never voted for the weak kneed soft spoken Lincoln (and there were plenty of them) or for FDR’s non-progressive agenda because they knew better.
Value oriented voters are the kind that never associate with the ordinary
masses or try to convince them of anything because they are pure and they want to sleep well at night. Instead, they associate with their similarly valued friends and talk about their values and rail against all those who don’t understand and their self-imposed irrelevancy. Their movements die quickly as a result of their isolation, purity and lack of interest in those who don’t understand.
Pragmaticism is for those who are less intellectually pure. People who care about lessor evils just don’t get it. Just ask Michele Bachmann.
Aye, from that day, Rev Bev, the Rule of Law became “optional” for the elite and quite moribund for the many, on that day the attempt was made to turn the Constitution into simply a “quaint piece of paper” … it remains to be seen if that attempt was wholly successful.
DW
More than 69 million people voted “pragmatically” for Obama in 2008 and what we got was “all those things Mr. Teller listed above” and someone who will appoint Supreme Court Justices who will uphold all those things. I’ll vote for Jill Stein because it’s the only way I have in this election to tell the Democrats that I don’t support all those things.
I take it that those are the people who claim to love humanity in the abstract but couldn’t tell you the names of their next-door neighbors, much less persuade them to change their politics?
Thanks for the reminder. The hard-core abolitionists never liked Lincoln and they really didn’t like Andrew Johnson, who Lincoln picked in part as a way to signal a willingness to deal humanely with the South so that they wouldn’t fight to the death and be more willing to re-enter the Union.
So when Lincoln was murdered — a move that upset the saner people of both North and South because they knew what was going to happen as a result thereof — the hard-cores were let off the leash and promptly went berzerk, undermining Johnson with their impeachment efforts (which he survived, but barely) and in essence doing to the South what the Great Powers of Europe did to Germany post-World-War-One. Thus, of course, setting up a backlash to their efforts quite similar to that engendered by the “Make Germany Pay” movement after WWI.
Who destroyed the democracy in Greece the first time? Was it those who didn’t adhere to the constitution or the Plutocrats?
In terms of vote counts, are there more signs of vote fraud this time or in 2000? Perhaps this entire discussion misses the point.
If those 2008 pragmatists hadn’t voted for Obama do you think the body count would be the same, higher or lower? taking into consideration no health care reform would have been in place and McCain record as the ultimate war monger. Would McCain have supported everything on Mr. Teller’s list and even more or would he have not supported Obama evils?
I’m in an Obama safe state, and until yesterday felt relief I could therefore vote Stein.
But after David Swanson’s excellent post yesterday (why did such a commented -on essay disappear so fast?) I wish I could do so in a swing state.
(Anyone with tips on finding recent essays which no longer appear at right, please pass on. The “search function” does not work when I put in an author’s name.)
I’m starting to think the Dems are hearing from disaffected Dems intending to vote third party in their internal polling. They are getting more and more shrill on the topic – and visible.
A person who was making an attempt at being honest would have put the 200,000 or so Democrats who voted for Bush at the front of their list.
As to the “right” of which you speak, I’ll vote for whomever I please, your fantasies about a President Gore not withstanding.
The beatings will continue until morale improves. The Democratic Establishment is so arrogant and out-of-touch that they really believe more insults and threats will work. They are mistaken.
Jill Stein for President. Real hope. Real change. Real choice.
X2. Oh – and highly recommend. Beautiful exposition, Ed.
I don’t know how imaginary President Gore or imaginary President McCain would have governed. I do know that if McCain had won the election and imaginary President McCain had done all those things (even if he did nothing worse) many of the 69 million would be saying that imaginary President Obama would never have done those things.
By lesser-of-2-evils reasoning, if Romney gets elected, and does all the bad things we imagine he may do (remember he won’t have “60 votes” so according to Obama supporters that means a President can’t do anything),then the only thing Romney would need to do to win your vote in 2016 would be to run against someone you think is even worse.
The fact is that Obama did do those things and McCain didn’t.
Still, if you want to play a game of “peak at the future”, I’d hazard the guess that the Democrats would have at least put up some token, for appearances, at least, resistance against whatever McCain may or may not have tried to do. I’d like to think that the unions and all the self-described progressive organization would have also. Who knows?
I’d say the problem is even more fundamental than that. If one envisions a political system as the mechanism a society employ to solve common problems, it is evident that the American political system has collapsed. On the most urgent problem facing the nation, anthropogenic global warming, neither mainstream party comes close to addressing the problem. Worse, the system comprised as it is of just two parties cannot even acknowledge the problem. Failure simply cannot get more stark. The American People are not abandoning the American political system; the American political system has abandoned the American People. We are simply waking up to reality and insisting that something different be done.
Yes the big surprise to me is the insults, including here yesterday in responses to Swanson’s essay. Apparently they believe the use of ridicule will convince the crowd to disown those “straying from the group”. Sadly that tactic can be effective, although not here, given the high level of discourse.
I doubt third party voters will move any needles this time ( I could be wrong, the Dems seem to be hitting the panic button), but as the percentages voting third party get bigger, more folks will notice. And for those who feel safe inside the herd that will provide permission to do the same.
I wonder what role demographics will play. My son, now in law school at U Chicago, will vote third party, and my guess is, after the Obama disillusionment, always will. No Democrat, he – even though he cast his first vote for Obama. He has changed his registration to
non-affliated, and his vote will always go to the candidate who represents his values.
Well, lets face it: the American Left has eaten plenty of shit over the past 40 years without abandoning the Democratic Party. For many folks, however — and I’m one — Obama was the last straw. The sneering betrayals and abject contempt for Progressives by the Obamacrats was designed, I think, to break the Left once and for all. I believe, however, that it has had the opposite effect. I hope so anyhow.
Agree, except in my view, the destruction of civil liberties and the rise of the security state are even more urgent. If dissent is effectively quashed, there is no path to change on any issue.
X2.
Yes, I agree with you. I was thinking of a specific and concrete problem but you are right: once the capacity to solve problems is decimated then no problems can be addressed. In fact, we are already there. Take something like health care. The American People overwhelmingly wanted a public health care plan and we never wavered through the entire fiasco. And the American People elected the party that ostensibly stood on the side of public health care. But the corporatists would have none of it so the public option was simply a nonstarter in the DC Bubble. Yes, the future looks bleak, with the erosion of civil liberties and the decimation of education leading to an even more cowed, docile and ignorant population ripe for ever more manipulation. That’s another reason we must spread this revolution now. It will only get harder later.
It’s interesting to ponder if the Obama betrayal, coming as it did at a time which gave him a once- in – a generation opportunity to undo previous damage and make progress on others, has served as a tipping point as well as a breaking point. It certainly did for me, and many thinking people I know.
O’s rhetoric (lying) was so effective, it is just jaw – dropping to review the contrast between those promises and what he actually did.
( The Daily Show, did a piece reviewing /exposing this – I think on civil liberties, illegal wiretapping, etc. It both restored my sanity and unleashed my rage – I realized I hadn’t been DUPED, I’d been straight-out LIED to.)
Yep. The law now says the Executive can imprison or kill U. S. citizens without judicial review. Considering the treatment of whistleblowers and activists, it is pretty dire already. I sometimes wonder if McCain, given his POW experience, would have instigated the crackdown on dissent that Obama has.
To say the truth, I was heartened at how many pushed back against all the reflexive cries against Dave’s post and convictions, or at least made it known they weren’t about to take any more guff from the corporate legacy parties, and they’d say it with either their third-party votes, or in a few cases, No Votes.
That so many are so short-sighted and see only that ‘this is the most important election of my lifetime’ out of fear for The Other Spooky Guy can be depressing and dispiriting. But no so much evidence of that here lately. And…that’s a good thing. ;o)
Popeye!!! How wonderful to (virtually) see you!
All my best to you always,
wd
Hey Wendy thank you and it’s good to see you as well. Keep writing the truth so that others may see the light. :)
It’s not that I didn’t get everything I wanted–it’s that I didn’t get ANYTHING I wanted and a whole lot that I didn’t want.
Well if you don’t know you should find out. I notice Bachman supporters are the same way. Instead of addressing the arguments they just repeat what they already know. Oblivious to any new idea. It’s really a form of chanting IMO.
I think George Clooney is an idiot who parrots everything the democrat establishment says. If the democrats were anything like republicans, then Obama would listen to his base! His cabinet wouldn’t call the democratic base “fucking retards with nowhere else to go” who “should be drug tested”. When the republican base opens their mouth to talk, the republicans ask them how high they should jump. When the democratic base opens their mouth to talk, they cover their mouths and shout every platitude in the democratic playbook.
I think Clooney must have zero critical thinking skills.
You just described yourself.
Think about it what’s the difference between obamabot and libonazi? Not much IMO Both are unthinking derogatory approaches for people’s whose beliefs interfere with their rational judgments.
That’s how I feel about TBogg’s diatribes response to another diary. Does he really believe that kind of abuse would change anyone’s mind?
But he has LOTS of money, which is why George is Barack’s pal.
They learned nothing from 2010. All they had to do to get my vote was to take Medicare eligibility and COLA cuts off the table. Not that I am not totally with you on civil liberties too. It matters. They are not owed my vote. They need to come get it.
I’ll have to differ with you there. I’d say he’s bright guy, it’s just that his agenda is different than yours. You can be smart and a hypocrite at the same time.
OT -
a U. N affiliated group will deploy an international team of poll watchers to some swing states election day on the lookout for voter suppression.
Agree wholeheartedly.
Here’s McCain’s position on Iran & Syria http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2012/03/mccain-syria.html Also note apparently many people in this thread are unaware that McCain supports extrajudicial killings. Google it he does.
That is, if anyone is interested in mature or thoughtful arguments in this threat which I’m beginning to doubt.
Exactly.
Ah, popeye, a pleasure to “see” you.
I hope that things are well with you and that you may find time, energy, and opportunity to share your thoughts and insights more often.
I have missed you.
As I miss Southern Dragon.
DW
As for Springsteen, maybe he can play this song as he stands next to Bill Clinton (who deregulated Wall Street and unleashed the rapacious greed that destroyed our economy) and Barack Obama (who has protected the thieves and shoveled TRILLIONS of taxpayer dollars into their insatiable maws):
Your claims are fairly specious, not to mention that your links are *not* all that *independent*. Hillary as a champion of human rights is a real stunner, and the health care link is silly to me given this great analysis letsgetitdone brought us recently.
The best part was this part of the conclusion that too few partisans even want to talk about:
OBomba saving the environment through increased fracking, drilling and clean coal? Or do you mean by subsidizing *new* nuclear power plants while the old ones rot and leak? Or did you mean getting somewhere at Rio 20+1? Oh.
Poverty? Please tell me, and how about cramming down mortgages instead of bailing out banksters and multinationals? Jobs? Speaking of the poor? Never, not in his SOTU, not in the debates. Schools? Appoint a moron like Arne Duncan and privatize/charter/corporatize education…Race to the Bottom Line.
Please bring better propaganda.
It’s not my experience that people are “persuaded” to change their politics. They usually change their politics as they move through life and have experiences that change their viewpoints.
Well, we didn’t get our ponies so we’re pouting. Plus we’re sanctimonious fucking retards who should be drug treated. So what can you expect?
Obama has LITERALLY adopted John McCain’s energy policy. He even lifted the name: All-Of-The-Above (and now with unlimited fracking!)
Most people forget about that. If Gore won his home state (hell, even Mondale won his home state), the Florida shennanigans wouldn’t have mattered.
Even the great, late George McGovern won his home state.
Some of us are mightily aware of who McCain is, and what his positions are, Todd. It’s just that we don’t see the Democrats and unions and organizations going along for the ride so willingly in your imaginary future.
Now put that in your pigeon-holing pipe and smoke it, what with your maturity, and all.
Like I said, not only did Dave’s post change my thinking about swing state third party voting, but TBogg’s rants with their personal insults solidified it.
The tactic of discredit by ridicule is usually the first tool the right reaches for, but TBogg reveals to what extent the Dem’s have adopted the rule – by – muscle ideology.
Nader didn’t cost Gore the election. Gore cost himself the election. He named that whiny little putz Joe Lieberman as his running mate, ran on small-ball issues like violent video games, and utterly disappeared in the second and third debates.
Al Gore has done some remarkable work in the name of the environment, but he was the A-Rod of presidential candidates.
I believe Jimmy Carter has said that American presidential elections don’t meet international standards for being “free and fair.”
I should “find out” how imaginary Presidents Gore and McCain would have governed? Is there an app for that? As I said, most of the people who voted for Obama would never have imagined he would do what he has done.
We now know what he did and didn’t do. We also know that he has made no promise to do better in a second term, and that his ardent supporters have made no demand that he do so. How does that benefit our country? I won’t be voting for him.
Exactly.
We haven’t seen the end of Obama’s journey into the dark side. Once he is free of the burden of reelection, he will double-down, IMO.
And he will be unopposed as the Democrats assist him and the Republicans egg him on.
Obama has an actual record now, as opposed to his extremely thin resume/record before he became president.
Presidents can’t vote “present”, which must have disappointed Obama.
My sentiments exactly. He and his inner circle have destroyed all potential opposition within the party. They’ve either been exiled (Howard Dean), voted out of office (Dennis Kucinich), or domesticated (Daily Kos, MSNBC).
And Gore had to deal with Clinton’s “moderate/centrist/DLC” policies, and many people were angry about Clinton’s sellouts like they were with Obama’s.
Gore also ran a terrible campaign against a truly incompetent Republican.
One could argue that Obama was a no-show at the first debate.
He was “present” at the debate (sorry, couldn’t resist).
Very true, g. Humans seem to have to experience something personally before it penetrates.
One reason I’m wondering if the massive Obama betrayal of all those young people who signed up and worked and voted for him might have significant long term consequences.
George McGovern was my first vote. I hated Nixon. I did feel betrayed when he lost in a landslide, but not by him. It was my first experience that something was wrong with the system itself, and after Watergate confirmed my suspicions I carried a skeptical mindset forward to the rest of my life.
What effect will a betrayal by THE CANDIDATE and what was believed to be “the PARTY of the people” have on all those 18-22 year olds who voted for Obama so enthusiastically?
Wow. I stayed up real late last night, working on some music I am writing, and am surprised this diary has gotten so many comments. Also happy that the comments are on a higher level than the earlier, slightly different version I posted at my blog. A sample:
and:
I’m surprised nobody has questioned or asked for more information on my statement in the diary, “Unfortunately, my spiritual beliefs preclude me from voting for war criminals, so nothing Clooney says will influence me.”
Obama spent most of the first debate (which many consider the worst debate performance ever, worse than Quayle in 1988) agreeing with Romney’s positions. It sounded like he was endorsing him.
I’m sure that’s true. Just how hard it is to register and then vote compared to most countries probably gets us there, not to mention adding in vote – counting fraud (voting machines with no paper receipt to match against) and voter suppression we’re there for sure.
Love that the U.N. is stepping in.
It’s not just the just the politicians who will assist him.
Many (most?) unions and self-described progressive organizations and websites will help him along, either outright, or by remaining silent.
And with that Ol’ George inadvertently stumbles upon the real problem in our political dynamic: the Democratic Party thinks that the people serve the party and, anything the party does is, by definition, good. That is a perversion of partisan politics: political parties are supposed to be vehicles for advancing causes, policies and a political philosophy. The problem the Democrats face is that they no longer have any causes or policies and their “political philosophy” extends merely to not being Republicans. That is why Obama appears so foolish at the debates: he stands for nothing.
Sadly, agree.
Ed
See some of the responses to Dave Swanson’s post yesterday on voting third party (if you can find it).
DEM invective laden counter-attack is now SOP.
Maybe the fact they are taking the trouble means the internal polls in swing states are tightening.
Again, thanks for the thoughtful post.
didn’t you mean ..”extends merely to PRETENDING not to be Republicans…”?
Here’s a link to David’s diary.
Also, here’s a link to a fascinating interview conducted this week by Bill Moyers, with Matt Taibbi and Chrystia Freeland, on her new book.
I have a tab open, it’s here; kinda been waiting to see if he answered my comment a few hours ago. Must have been a thread-killer, oh dear oh dear…
Or else he’s at church, or reloading his Big Guns. ;o)
I just figured it was similar to my self-description of following my conscience.
I used to feel the neutering of our press was most important as we needed reporting on what was being protested, but the assault on civil liberties has been so egregious that, I agree, that is now problem number one that needs to be addressed. I want my habeas corpus back.
The danger of the government’s current course is very serious, the more so since most people are not paying any attention to the issue and we don’t have the mainstream media reporting on it.
Thanks. How do you get a diary up that has “disappeared”?
You can either use the Find People button (in the Explore part of your toolbox up at the top with your avatar), enter a screen name, then click the Diaries tab…then go from there…
Or click into your own dashboard by clicking on your own screen name, and looking at your comments, and click on the Post/diary you want…
There are other ways, but those are the simplest I think.
I’ll answer comments later; I need some sleep. ;o)
Probably. I’m a hybrid of non-Christian Unitarianism, Zen (as taught by D.T. Suzuki and Honshin), the simplicity of the Kybalion’s seven principles, and the respect for scientific inquiry represented so well by the scientists who created the physics to split the atom, and so poorly by those who followed and spread waste and destruction in their wake (Szilard, Einstein and Oppenheimer representing the first, Edward Teller representing the latter).
We can’t survive as the species we know with the levels of contamination, particularly nuclear, growing at their present rate. The two-party show represented by RomnObama is anti-evolutionary, and growing worse. In the 1990s, 3rd party candidates participated in presidential debates. Now they are arrested and shackled.
Agree.
The failure of the press may be mostly due to the co-opting by their corporate owners.
But the European press- Murdoch not withstanding – is much better.
Ever since we lost Habeus corpus in 2006 being labeled as providing material support to the enemy if they speak too loudly on even economic issues may be in the minds of some.
Love your heading, Edward! And to DW’s points about Gore I will add that he also is the prime example of What Democrats Do When they are Out of Power – that is he gave excellent speeches against the Bush Doctrine and became a climate change educator. I guess the PTB recognized they’d better shut Democrats up pretty quick and the best way to do that was to give them all the wherewithall to shoot themselves in the collective feet – that is, to get them elected!
Fortunately Jill Stein has taken no corporate or pac monies, so on her feet are those shoes Obama shunted to the back of his closet when push came to shove – well, I’d hazard a guess hers are a tad smaller than his, but they’ve walked the walk!
Recommended.
I haven’t read all the comments so maybe I’m repeating this but you can go to
http://warisacrime.org/blog/1568
I think the article is called “The Case For Irrational Voting” – so that might come up in a search – it’s on the blog anyway.
And any environmentalist can be labeled an eco-terrorist and fall under the rules for terrorism.
What was the name of Will Potter’s book? Green is the New Red?
Yes, count me in the voting for Jill Stein column.
Lovely to see you, popeye! Wellness be upon you!
You wrote earlier:
” You can either vote your values for a third party candidate or you can vote pragmatically.”
It was pointed out to me, I think on David Swanson’s diary, that voting third party you actually do both – vote with your heart AND with your head – as I think many of the comments I have been reading here are saying. But I have a cue for you (having demolished that truncation): go to the ‘frivolous’ theme, or the ‘rage’ theme – those really gave us battered liberals something to think about!
Um, Todd, he’s not running this time.
“The problem the Democrats face is that they no longer have any causes or policies and their “political philosophy” extends merely to not being Republicans. That is why Obama appears so foolish at the debates: he stands for nothing.”
Nailed it! As much as I deplore the republican agenda, I admire their unwavering support of their principle’s, most notably that they have some.
The lesser of two evils argument, only address the rate of rightward drift of the “overton window”. It offers no hope of stopping that drift or more importantly, reversing it.
Whether Obama wins or loses, I have no illusion that the democratic nominee in 2016, 2020 or 2024 will be fundamentally more progressive.
Yup. Ask any partisan Democrat or Democratic official what the Democratic Party stands for and you’ll get an earful. Then ask that person to answer without referencing the Republican Party. . . . . Dead silence. And that speaks volumes. Democrats have abandoned Liberalism and disdain Progressivism. They have embraced Neoliberalism, which is just another name Economic Libertarianism. They are Bush’s mythical Compassionate Conservatives incarnate. So our “viable political spectrum” now extends from FarRightWingNutistan to George Bush.
Thanks, but no thanks. We can do far better.
That’s an intriguing question. I am certain there will be viable and strengthening American Progressive Movement by 2016. I’m not sure whether Obama winning or losing will strengthen Progressivism because it gets complicated with many moving parts. For instance, let’s say Obama wins. That will mean the Corporatists have truly seized complete control of the Democratic Party. How will the Progressives and Liberals in the Democratic Party respond? How will they respond as the tenure of the first African-American president nears its end and new leaders and candidates emerge? Will the Democratic Party schism? If Obama loses, there will surely be the Nader Redux Hippie Punching. But we’ve already endured all that nonsense so that hardly seems significant. Either way, the Democratic Party will confront its identity crisis head-on once Obama’s confounding effect is out of the equation. Watch the Green Party. If the Democrats are headed the way of the Whigs — not out of the question — the Greens are the most likely beneficiaries.
Thank you ET….well reasoned and stated…voting Barack Obama out of the WH is doing good politics. To pretend otherwise is political/moral failure which opens upon bad play outs and real and dark consequences.
….recommended
…timesthree…yes…why bother with pesky principles…just ignore them in service to doing the R vs. D flimflam…what kind of a D is going to let principles get in the way of electing this D POTUS —Barack Obama— again?
Being against what G.W.Bush was doing as a R POTUS but allowing Barack Obama to much the same based on IOKIYAAD is political/moral hypocrisy defined. I recently ran into this thicket here at FDL for pointing out the mockery of running pro Elect Obama political ads next to the Support Bradley Manning box…it was underlined to me that this was a “non-issue”. Should consider just shutting up about it too. This is not a non-issue. It is a political principle. Principles are not about convenience or ease of play — so much of post 2001/post 2008 USA now is tho.
I despise the R vs. B BS — it is politically pointless and useless here in 2012 Corporatist/Militarist United States. The L to R economic/political spectrum should be/needs to be reset to Top to Bottom economic/political spectrum.
Barack Obama is a POTUS who is serving the top 10 percent of Americans and American Empire. While doing so POTUS Obama is trying to bury Bradley Manning alive, do lots of warmongering and is doing warcrimes. The Ds cannot stand on principle(s) defending Obama so standing on principle(s) is mocked/made a mockery of while hypocrisy flourishes. This being so defines so much of post 2008 Obama and D Party run WH. Duopoly/UniParty/corporatist/militarist politics will not take USA or American Empire to where both need to go.
Barack Obama needs to be voted out of the WH in November 2012.
You forget the thousands of poor (black) people taken off of the Florida voting rolls because their name matched a felon in Florida or any other state. You forget the massive numbers of poor (black) people who were stopped from getting to the polls by road blocks. You forget that the United States Supreme Court appointed Bush and did not let the votes continue to be counted in Florida. It was not Nader’s fault.
OT: Israelis use Tasers on peace boat…
I wonder if they tasered any of the members of the European Parliament?
My first vote was in ’68 for Dick Gregory. I was quite young but had already heard enough from friends serving in the military to know that I couldn’t believe a damn thing my government said about the war.
This happened with Gore, too.
Always nice to see you as well. Keep posting the wisdom you possess. :)
I saw Sean Penn in the nasty muck helping people in NOLA after Katrina before the feds got there. I’m more interested in his opinion than George Clooney’s.
“It ain’t so bad.” What a tagline for the current administration!
I guess I should point out that the next Democratic candidate to win after Nader was… Barack Obama.
Boom! Went your thesis because, following Nader’s 2000 run that netted 2.8 million votes, the Greens were forgiven so much that they netted… 119 thousand next go around.
But, here. Don’t take my word for it:
Quit nominating flakes and dilettantes and actually do some work in non-presidential elections getting a Congressman or two elected and maybe the Greens will be a viable party come the next millennium. But that takes work not related to good intentions and internet declarations of purity for like-minded to people to admire.
FDR moved to the left because of Huey Long, and the support he was getting from “value oriented voters” dissatisfied with FDR’s performance.
One of the wars was Afghanistan, the Congressional opposition to which can be counted on one finger: Barbara Lee. It was escalated by the 2008 Democratic Presidential nominee, Barack Obama.
The other was Iraq, which was supported by more than half of the Democratic Senate caucus, nearly half the Democratic House caucus, and the 2004 Democratic Presidential nominee, John Kerry.
As for abolitionists in the 19th Century, the Republican Party did not spring fully formed from the head of Zeus. Abolitionists supported third parties such as the Free Soil Party in 1848 and 1852, which advanced the idea of stopping the spread of slavery. Free Soilers, Whigs, and anti-Slavery Democrats went on to form the Republican Party. Had the abolitionists gone on supporting the Whigs as the lesser evil, I doubt that Abraham Lincoln even would have been a footnote in the history books.
The abolitionists helped to push Lincoln on the slavery issue, and I can understand why they may have been uncompromising, especially if they were escaped slaves with family still in the South.
Cynthia McKinney – What a flake!
…on point link…nothing excels like being honest in telling it like it was and is …thank you Twonine… the Ds should be ashamed….shame?…whats that?
Let’s reword that lest it be misinterpreted.
Cynthia McKinney a flake?
If you don’t support BO and his murderous drone progran, Cloondog and TBagg will sneer at you. Be forewarned!
Thanks for stopping by and inspiring us, TBogg.
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Very good rounding but very unfair. And am I to understand that you swear on the souls of your Bassets Gore really got fewer votes in Florida than Bush, and Kerry fewer in Ohio? (Note to grammar cops: if you can’t decide between ‘fewer’ and ‘less’, rely on the old Bud Light ads: “Less calories and fewer filling”.)
Never heard that one, but, then, I’m not in the smoked salmon crowd.
I’ll sign.
Just don’t want to see you guys get your little hearts broken again.
Thanks for the advice. Now run along and stick your head up Obama’s butt.
“Little hearts”? Bwahahaha!
The goober with the five year old mentality squeaks again.