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Israel Defense Forces in Staging Areas Around Gaza
As the Israeli state mobilizes 75,000 reservists, that country’s active military units are building staging areas quite close to their Sinai border with Egypt.
Early Saturday Joseph Dana tweeted:
The south of Israel is transforming from civilian areas in a sea of military bases to one large military base.
This must concern the Egyptian government, which, by its peace treaty with Israel, is limited to what kinds or quality of military forces it can station in the Sinai peninsula of its own country. The Egyptian Sinai is 23,000 square miles. Israel is somewhere between 8,019 and 8,522 sq miles.
Friday, the new prime minister of Egypt, Hashim Kandil, visited Gaza, meeting with Hamas leaders:
Anyone hoping that Friday morning’s visit to Gaza City by Egyptian Prime Minister Hesham Kandil might ease the growing conflict between Israel and Hamas was sorely disappointed. In a brief two-hour trip, Kandil made no public mention of a cease-fire or ending the violence that has so far killed 23 people on both sides. Instead, he said Egypt’s loyalty rested squarely with Gaza’s people.
“The cause of Palestinians is the cause of all Arabs and Muslims,”’ he said during a visit to Shifa Hospital. “Palestinians are heroes.”
His presence failed to bring even a temporary lull in the fighting. Though Israel had agreed to halt airstrikes during the visit if militants also held their fire, rockets from Gaza struck Israeli towns almost as soon as Kandil arrived.
After PM Kandil left Gaza, the Israeli air force blew up the place where the head of the Egyptian government had just been:
Israeli aircraft bombed Hamas headquarters before dawn on Saturday, including the office of Gaza Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh, as conflict in the region entered its fourth day.
As Israeli mobilization infrastructure grows along the Egyptian-Israeli border, Kandil will be tested by his constituency on how to respond to a military buildup along a vulnerable border that has been violated before.
The Gaza operation seems to me to be a 2013 election campaign ploy by Netanyahu and Lieberman that might backfire badly. The bubble those two guys are trapped inside of keeps them from realizing how much the environment for a gratuitous campaign season war has changed in four years.
Photo by Israel Defense Forces under Creative Commons license.
120 Comments
US gives ‘full backing’ to Israel while urging de-escalation of Gaza violence:
Of all the things that I feel disgustingly helpless reading and talking about, Israel’s mindless aggression tops the list. What can we do? How can we even begin to do something constructive when our own government gives its moral and financial support to the slaughter?
This was in the live blog of the first day of the bombings:
If so, killing al-Jabari was pretty provocative. There was also a link to a piece at FP concerning the changing leadership of Hamas, and the increasing difficulty to stay the rocketfire, but I’ve lost it. If I can find it, I’d love to know what you think. Maybe later today I can hunt it up.
How can there be an article about Egypt as a peace broken without noting this?
Rockets landing in Israel’s Eshkol fired from Sinai http://www.presstv.com/detail/2012/11/17/272802/rockets-from-egypt-hit-israels-eshkol/
ET, Thank you for posting. I have a friend who moved to Gaza 7 weeks ago. I think I have posted a link to her blog before.
Today, I read on FB that our newly elected Senator “is aware” that one of his constituents is there. My primary reason for my tepid support during his election is his truculence on this issue. He knows our friend in Gaza supported another candidate in the primary for this reason, and I don’t know if his “awareness” attaches ambivalence due to our failure to support him with enthusiasm in the fall election.
I went to our demonstration in support of Gaza last night. I am trying not to attach additional significance to my concern for the people of Gaza simply because my friend is there, in the middle of this.
I am trying to understand the position of the Israeli people from a similar perspective of danger/horror/death, but there is no way to equate the assymetrical situation.
I wish there was more I could do. I will go again today to the demonstration for Gaza.
Time once again for the left to note it’s not just Reichwing neocons who whore for Israel/AIPAC.
Maybe the Palestinians are firing into Israel because Israel won’t let enough food into their country to feed their children properly.
Old Testament, indeed.
“but there is no way to equate the assymetrical situation.” It’s pretty easy. Let me give you an example. What would you do if you lived next to someone that fired out their windows at you all day and eventually killed your dog. You have twice the neighbors weapons and are a trained combat veteran. You endlessly warn the neighbor and ask them to stop, they claim they own your property and escalate the attacks.
Ok, now a Nat’l example. Mexico decides to take back Calif. ( they did indeed own it once 175 yrs. ago) to that end they start firing missiles randomly into San Diego and won’t stop. How would we react after some of our citizens get killed by the missiles? We have 1000X the military they have.
Funny, I heard that same Mexico story last night at the demo from one of the pro-Israeli folks. How does that work?
Agree about the sense of helplessness. It’s how I feel about my liberal friends and their exultant affection for Obama. Makes one feel very, very alone.
At least we can be consoled that in almost every other country in the world there is loathing for Israel’s actions toward the Palestinians.
How would you feel if people came into your town, told you to get out of your house, they bulldozed your home and your crops and then told you that they were going to control your water, your food and your medications FOREVER?
Thank you.
“Lots of arrests in the West Bank today,” says another friend who is in the WB.
The IDF has threatened to cut Gaza’s internet access, as a likely prelude to unfettered slaughter that the IDF doesn’t want the rest of the world to see or hear about.
Anonymous has reacted by taking down several key Israeli government and banking websites, as well as by posting information for Gazans to use to get around the looming IDF shutdown of Gaza’s internet lifeline to the outside world.
So, you’re agreeing with the title of this piece?
Probably about the same way the native peoples of North America felt when my ancestors migrated here with firearms and whiskey.
That’s true and I don’t feel good about that either.
My point was that this rocket was coming from Egypt, not Gaza.
Hi, Wendy. I don’t think the PTB in Israel actually WANT peace. They have an inequality of wealth problem there that is similar to what we have here in America if some things I’ve read are true.
Far better to keep their people afraid and in line rather than to risk their own power by actually trying to reach a meaningful peace deal with the Palestinians. It’s also more likely to keep American tax dollars flowing into their coffers.
And Americans who object will always be called Nazis and Holocaust-deniers by American citizens who blindly support Israel no matter what the Israelis themselves actually do.
Oh, sorry.
The press here, there and everywhere have been known to report some of the details incorrectly.
Just speculating here. Is it possible that the rockets were fired by someone other than an Egyptian military group?
Not saying who.
I’m just really upset about this. My heart is with the people in Gaza.
I really hate the US involvement, via our disease infested relationship with Israel.
I’ll stop for now.
Had a very similar conversation with my mister yesterday.
We follow the money and the power hallucinations, and where do we get? What you said.
At what point does Israel’s war crimes and crimes against humanity nullify the “right” to exist? There need to be deep limitations to that right, at the very least, like disarmament and barring war criminals from holding public office.
I would defend my rights as a human and kill, if required. That is what was done to Nazis in Warsaw Poland, until Nazi razed the Ghetto. All the necessities of life where controlled by the German Nazis, food, water, never mind medication. In fact America did the same thing to native American Indian tribes. Israel fails to employs Solomon\\\’s wisdom as they murder fellow humans and basically turn a blind eye to the condition Israel creates, while taking no responsibility for the inevitable \\\”lashing out,\\\” by humans treated as second class citizens? Israel should know better……
All of Gaza is responsible for the firing missiles as all of Israel is responsible for response? No, just the brainwashed whack jobs on both sides played by religious zealots on both sides seeking endless retaliation and escalation? Maybe when the Ancient Aliens return, they will take all the zealots to the remnants of Sodom and Gomorrah, repave it with zealots watching and turn them all to salt. Problem solved…..
Destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6rc33TvNPUM
Well said, OB, and not unlike how those targeted for drone killings, in OUR name, must feel …
One notes this article:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-greenwald/a-presidential-candidate_b_2145676.html
… and wonders if “we”, all of us, we … “human beings”, will EVER learn?
Perhaps, as long as we “believe” that what “goes” around “comes” around … does NOT apply to “us” … we cannot truly understand? And apparently we lack both the imagination and human compassion, call it “empathy” to care to really and fully understand?
Thank you, ET, for this necessary, excellent, and timely post.
Recommended to the conscience and humanity of everyone … every where, at all times …
DW
Yeah, well … sorry to be blunt about it like this but maybe brokering a deal between Israel and Palestine would be possible if Palestine stopped firing Iranian rockets at Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. It’s just as childish and silly as sticking up your middle finger to a cop when he pulls you over.
And this ridiculous crap about blockades on Palestine is ridiculous. Where do you think these rockets come from? The sky? The moon, maybe? No there are tunnels to and from Egypt. That’s where those long range Iranian rockets came from. I don’t think food is the problem. I think religion and blind “faith” and “belief” is the problem.
Who cares who rules over Gaza. This is 2012, not 1106.
Juan Cole:
Well. Hmmm. I guess I was ‘pre-agreeing’ with the title since they killed al-Jabari. But I still wish that extremist factions could be stayed from launching rockets into Israel no matter how benignly their targets intend to be.
@ dscape: Sorry, the Israelis have it figured down to the calorie how much food can be allowed into Gaza to keep people barely alive. The citizens of Gaza seem to care who rules them.
Thanks, as usual, ET. dscape, perhaps the Palestinians would stop firing any rockets if the israelis were actually interested in peace and a viable solution. In fact, and I don’t care if you think I’m a mind reader, the actions of israeli leadership prove the point that they will not rest until every single Palestinian, citizen or not,is killed or is driven from the area that the likudniks claim. There is no established boundary for israel until israel says where it will stop. The israeli leadership, with backing from us and Europe have taken over the water, the land, exports, and imports of the Gazans. They have taken, and plan to take, more and more land illegally and call them “facts on the ground” that can’t be changed. There was only one Israeli leader that really wanted peace and a fair settlement, so he had to be killed. Our unfaltering backing of the israeli leadership’s murderous ways does not, and cannot, help bring about peace there. Referring to wendydavis @3 just shows the lack of good intentions by the likudniks.
From the NYTimes.
I am a pacifist so this should have ended in 1948 for me. Looks like there is no interest from the U.S. side in any ground invasion. Good.
There no good in any war, large or small. Hasn’t everyone suffered enough? If they want to achieve, greatness, do it the way Gandhi did, peacefully.
Gershon Baskin has made his role as a peaceful negotiator and the role of the assassinated Mr. Jabari transparent in this Op-Ed.
We need to find someone new for Gershon to speak to, and ask everyone to stop shooting. It does no good to keep escalating this situation. Targetting potential Hamas peace negotiators is counterproductive as well as shooting rockets at Israel.
“Sorry, the Israelis have it figured down to the calorie how much food can be allowed into Gaza to keep people barely alive.”
Propaganda noun (1718)
1. The spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person.
2. Ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one’s cause.
Seems to sum up your ‘raison d’etre’ on this diary.
Have a nice day.
doremus, it seems that as far as you are concerned, there is no reason to criticize the Israeli govt. Nothing that they have done merits a response from the Palestinians except an acceptance of whatever is required of them, and the requirement is get out or die.
We aren’t telling Mexicans they can’t have an airport or shipping, and we aren’t enforcing an embargo of goods, including foodstuffs, coming into their country.
Backing from American Jewish groups, not backing from us.
Which is it? “Egypt tries to broker cease fire and truce” or “Kandil made no public mention of a cease-fire or ending the violence that has so far killed 23 people on both sides. Instead, he said Egypt’s loyalty rested squarely with Gaza’s people.”
I’m just asking.
Right, things including weapons make it through the tunnels, but the blockade keeps other things out, or at least very constrained. Maybe Israel’s plan now is to make Gaza a part of Egypt, and establish the West Bank, or Ramallah, as a sort of semi-autonomous zone, kind of like Hong Kong. In a way, Israel is kind of getting what it wants, through sheer brute force. Cut off Gaza, foist it on Egypt, and make the West Bank a kind of vassal pseudo-state with limited forms of independence. The only questioning remaining is the demographic question. How is the Jewish state going to deal with the reality of all those Palestinians being born, growing up and seeing what’s on?
What’s she’s saying might be an exaggeration,but I don’t think there’s any doubt that the Israeli gov’t is embargoing foodstuffs in order to try and reduce support for Hamas.
“seeing what’s going on?” (typo)
There have been several demonstrations in Tel Aviv and Jerusalem lately against the Neo-Liberals ins charge of the government, just as here, against austerity and growing inequality. There, just as here, when the Neo’s get in trouble politically, an existential threat and war must be conjured. Since Nettie couldn’t get any traction on Iran, there’s always the powerless Palestinians kept in their handy open air prison next door.
Those of you who seek a moral equivalence for responsibility for conditions in Palestine between the Zionist Neo’s and the Palestinians, or see a Mossad operation in the Sinai as proof of a spreading conflict; I have a prospectus on the Brooklyn Bridge you really need to take a look at.
I may be wrong, but I’ve read it for years, and said it in good faith. I did just find this recap of the report the claim was based on. I erred because it was about ‘avoiding malnutrition’, not just staying barely alive, a difference without much meaning, imo.
“What’s she’s saying might be an exaggeration…”
Let me repeat:
What she is saying is called propaganda.
That’s what I am saying.
“I may be wrong, but I’ve read it for years…”
Propaganda noun (1718)
1. The spreading of ideas, information, or rumor for the purpose of helping or injuring an institution, a cause, or a person.
2. Ideas, facts, or allegations spread deliberately to further one’s cause.
Have a nice day.
I contributed a definition for the word ‘propaganda’ to this diary.
Any deductions you might deduce from a solitary definition is your take on the matter, and not mine.
But if asked, I would call firing rockets at a sovereign state, any sovereign state, an act of war.
And I would ask you to name those sovereign countries which would not retaliate in response to being attacked?
Or, for those of you who still are having a difficult time understanding what the consequences are for a state or group of people who initiate a war, well allow me to recast this as briefly as possible:
Attack Israel and die.
It doesn’t get much simpler than that.
I guess none of us can criticize, because seven generations ago someone else’s ancestors did some evil things. Give it a break.
Not that I’m trying to pick a fight or anything, (just discussing) but you’re own comment according to your own definition is propaganda
For that matter, every comment. on any. and every blog. is propaganda
Again, just discussing
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/Hasbara
Internet tough talk makes you feel like a big man, huh? Fuck you.
Look in a mirror.
It’s true: practically everywhere else in the world, Israel’s actions (and our facilitation thereof) are correctly seen as vile. But the oppression and butchery go on and on, and we can do nothing but watch. I just feel sick inside.
You know, if the Palestinians had it in them to follow a Gandhi-like approach, they probably would have won decades ago. They don’t. I’m not going to get into a discussion as to why they don’t anymore than I will get into a discussion of why the Israeli Jews and their backers in the United States won’t, either.
The fact is that neither side does. The really BIG fact is that the Israelis can’t win if they keep this up. The United States cannot support them forever, because Americans are going to have far bigger fish to fry at home soon enough, and Israel will largely be forgotten here. Don’t count on us, man.
The best the Israelis can ultimately do if they keep this up is to survive by Mutually Assured Destruction. That’s really tiring. Better to reach some modus vivendi with their Palestinian neighbors, who also know that many of their Arab brethren are perfectly willing to fight the Israelis down to the last Palestinian.
Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are fundamentally stupid or suicidal. But they need to figure this out on their own. The longer other world powers keep supporting one side or the other in order to make arms and oil profits the longer this bloody travesty will continue.
doremus, I’ll repeat the answer that I gave to dscape.
I don’t think that the Palestinians see their lives as all that simple that they should die when they are babies or young children or other civilians. You feel that you can slip in a definition of propaganda with out showing just where wendydavis was wrong, then feel that we will be speechless at your brilliance.
Yeah, you are absolutely correct.
Everyone has an ax to grind, and another’s gored ox is too bad, but your gored ox is a tragedy.
Of course, I do have the advantage of the true light of Jesus shinning through my eyes. :>)
C’est la vie.
I’ve been gone working all morning and early afternoon. Come back and see the kids have taken over the comment section and pretty much trashed it.
The main premise of this diary is that some of the Israeli actions in the ongoing Gaza campaign seem to either completely miss how the new Egyptian regime may be obliged to respond to fairly direct provocations, or that the current Israeli leadership just does not care about that.
I agree with part of your comment, but this struck me as uninformed. There have been dozens and dozens of Palestinian Gandhis. The Israelis have killed many; the Palestinians have liquidated some; many languish in Israeli prisons or PA jails. Gandhi did not live in a vacuum. Every week in the West Bank Gandhi-like demonstrations by unarmed hundreds are broken up with tear gas, rubber bullets, or worse.
“You feel that you can slip in a definition of propaganda without showing just where wendydavis was wrong, then feel that we will be speechless at your brilliance.”
Au contraire.
I just thought it would be invaluable to this series of discussions if we had a baseline which defined propaganda.
And brilliance?
I am but a most ordinary fellow not imbued by the gods with the dazzling, all encompassing intellectual sparkle which permeates all of your comments.
I truly pale in your intellectual shadow.
Juan Cole seems to be replying to some of the commenters above, who likened rocket launches from Gaza to attacks from Mexico or Canada or somewhere, upon US territory:
One of the commenters to Juan Cole’s article I linked to above recounts an Israeli joke I had heard long ago from a friend who served in the IDF back in the 60s and 70s:
I see that doremus is shilling for the Zionists yet again. Wendydavis is correct the Israeli government – specifically COGAT commsissioned a study in 2008 which calculated the amount of calories that would enable the population of Gaza to – barely, obtain the amount of nutrition they need to survive. You can read an English language translation of the study on the Gisha website* [PDF]:
Food Consumption in the Gaza Strip – The Red Lines
COGAT then adjusted those totals sharply DOWN to as they put it account for “cultural factors” this downward adjustment brought the amount of food the Israelis permitted into Gaza far below the level at which malnutrition and its sequellæ occurs.
mfi
*Gisha – The Legal Center for Freedom of Movement is the Israeli Human Rights organisation that took the Israeli government to court forcing them to publish the “Redl lines” study.
mfi
Thanks. It is truly bizarre that people stoop to defend how the Israelis reached the premise that got them to “adjust those totals sharply DOWN to as they put it account for “cultural factors”.”
Jonathan Cook, in a recent article on Israeli policies re food and Gazans, sums up:
You may have forgotten how doremus loudly cheered on macaquerman but I haven’t. Do you remember macaquerman Philip? He wrote increasingly viciously perverted comments and postings about Arabs and Muslims in general and Palestinians in particular until he was banned. Sometimes the proverb “a man is known by the company he keeps” tells you all you need to know about somebody. It certainly does in doremus’ case.
mfi
It can’t be overstated, IMHO, that Israel is a Jewish State. It is not a secular country like the USA. It is the Jewish State of Israel. Non Jews are not tolerated – as we can see.
I have no use for Israel. If they should cease to exist tomorrow, I would likely not even take notice let alone care.
Pardon me for dropping a link and leaving…for now (RL is calling). I’ve been working on another diary, and at the site I was quoting, was this post, seemingly fairly up to date…and grisly as all giddy-up.
The people who live there.
mfi
Precisely.
mfi
I’d forgotten about that, but it is true.
It sometimes seemed to me that they were in some sort of contest to see how low they could go.
mfi
No mention of Obama regarding Israel striking first in this round, killin the Hamas leader. Only right to defend itself . . . defend its fucking self? Israel is conducting violent expansion, ethnic cleansing and genocide, and has been since 1946 BEFORE the partitioning even became International Law.
I don’t blame Israeli’s, hundreds of thousands of them have taken to the streets in the past year to protest Likud/Bibi warmaking.
And the US govt fully supports this terror upon a defenseless citizenry being displaced and uprooted from its homes of a thousand years.
Meh.
“You may have forgotten how doremus loudly cheered on macaquerman…”
You sure got that right!
So let’s do it once again:
Hip, Hip, Hurrah! Hip, Hip, Hurrah! Hip, Hip, Hurrah!
borrowing from doremus35 and macaquerman:
Hip, Hip, Hurrah! Hip, Hip, Hurrah! Hip, Hip, Hurrah!
You fully neglect the history of this issue going back a thousand years, where peace between arabs and jews was more on than off.
You ESPECIALLY neglect the facts and history of the displacement by force of Palistineans since 1946 by Israeli war heroes like Ben Gurion. This genocide and ethnic cleansing began in ’46, with the blood and horror of the Nazi Extermanation of Jews fresh in the minds of the world.
And the world looked away, averred their eyes, and the militant Israeli’s have been conducting terror upon Palistineans since.
While the planet continues to aver its eyes. Sick.
So what? People with rockets move around, legally and with stealth. The Israeli’s are not above staging faux rocket attacks in order to justify a much more violent response.
Without details, facts, your comment is worthless in terms of veracity or value to the who did what mess.
Gimme a break, n yer bus is late, too Ralph.
“It can’t be overstated, IMHO, that Israel is a Jewish State.”
No need for overstatement.
Israel is a Jewish State.
But I think you might have forgotten that there are Muslim and Christian Israeli citizens.
On the other hand, your statement,
“Non Jews are not tolerated – as we can see.”, when adjusted for the truth should read:
Jews are not tolerated in most Middle Eastern Islamic countries other than Iran.
What a difference the truth makes, to some.
Hummm…how DID Hamas get rockets and other arms into Gaza when you cannot even get humanitarian aid into Gaza ?
Food no problem? Medicines? You try living like the Palistineans do and tell me you don’t get angry for yourself or your family.
You distort, mislabel and cast a biased comment about life in Gaza.
Gimme a break, go back to AIPAC and tell them you need better talking points, most Americans are beginning to realize the difference between Likud/Bibi and the Israel citizenry.
Why thanks Edward:
After all, emulation is the most sincere form of compliment.
So let’s have another round of applause for macaquerman:
Hip, Hip, Hurrah! Hip, Hip, Hurrah! Hip, Hip, Hurrah!
How do you reconcile that Israel has been doing the initial attacking of arabs and Palistineans since 1946, BEFORE partitioning? I call that ethnic cleansing, genocide, and that’s not propoganda.
You fail, miserably. Tell AIPIC and Bibi you need new talking points, the old one’s are no longer believable.
This may be the start of the next phase:
Thank you for truth and facts. Well done, as usual.
Yep, ironic as it seems, some of us never forget . . . ;-)
Please debate a person’s views rather than attacking the person, thank you.
Ahhh shit, it’s gonna get uglier . . . damn.
And as it DOES get uglier, and not that this helps one iota but we should all know these things, ya gotta keep in mind there’s an election coming up and Bibi and Likud and the hawks got a lot to lose.
Not to mention, as this short piece from AW Dot Com suggests, Gaza Is All About Iran. It’s All About Iran.
If Bibi and Likudnics proceed unimpeded upon their course, the planet will be at nuke war stage by May.
If that don’t frighten leaders of nations, including ours, nothing will. N we’re all doomed, in that event.
Dawg hep us all . . . thanks ET for your continuing diaries of things that are important to the planet and all of us at FDL.
Folks do not let doremus deflect you from the truth. What wendy was saying was the truth. She did not exaggerate and she was not propagandising she was telling the truth and doremus is trying very hard to stop people concentrating on the fact that wendy was telling the truth.
mfi
Phan Nguyen’s authoritative and thorough report on Gaza rockets.
I think it’s too late, Bibi’s got his blood lust up and he won’t rest until he’s drunk the blood of a thousand prepubescent Palestinian children.
Likud, the party of perpetual murder, sent a cease-fire proposal to Hamas and then assassinated the guy they gave it to. As if Bibi ever wanted a cease fire! Ha!
Hey, don’t get me wrong, Hamas are a bunch of idiots for poking the IDF hornets nest with a stick. They forgot the prime directive when poking a hornets nest: have somewhere to run.
Still Likud’s long term plan has always been to legitimize the massacre of palestinians and no one dared ever say no to Bibi yet. Bibi wants a huge war on Iran and Obama was stalling. Well now the election is over and Bibi will not be denied his war. He’s got a lot of nukes burning a hole in his pockets and Iran looks so tempting…
P.S.: ‘Settlers’ are the term America gave to those that stole the land from those that lived there and murdered anyone that dared complain about their land being stolen. There is no ‘settling’, the land’s been occupied by someone for 500,000 years now.
“whole society refashioned to accept its subjugation through a combination of violence, poverty, malnutrition and a permanent struggle over limited resources.”
Huh, sounds just like the Republican’s long term plan for the USA…
With all due respect, this may have been the wrong diary to abandon for what, twelve hours? You say we kids trashed it, but doesn’t that imply that you were the adult? Imagine that you were the teacher and posted this diary on the blackboard…and left the room for eleven or twelve hours, came back and announced that we’d ‘trashed the place’. Would you want us to ask plaintively if we might stay after school and scrub the blackboards for you?
There are reasons that many websites don’t permit discussions on I/P. Had you been here, you may have been able to guide the comments in the direction you’d hope they might go. Or not.
By my lights, I think it’s a good thread in the main. Instructive, historically nuanced, and bold.
I’d almost want to say don’t mind Doremus smacking me; it’s a bit personal, added to which he believes (along with a couple others here) that I’m an anti-Semitic holocaust denier because I penned a diary objecting to the firebombing of Dresden. I was slow to catch on to the fact that some readers this believed I doubted that so many ( a million?) Jews and others were eradicated by the Nazis.
Or not. Thanks for your comment. I had no choice as to my work schedule today.
I’m sorry I underestimated the numbers. Many many millions, at any rate.
wendy davis is a supremely valuable author/commenter here – as is et and many others.
Just wanna say that wendy davis, IMHO, you are no anti-semite. You are wonderful. Same goes for ET.
Thanks for the excellent diary — and the great link. As you say, authoritative and thorough.
Thank you, once again, EdwardTeller.
IMO, it wasn’t your job to guide the “children” away from their personal reactions. We are who we are. We’ll do as we do and say what we’ll say. It’s our own responsibility.
I have been so sick at heart, so tired of Humanity being forsaken for geopolitics/religion/resources. I close my eyes and imagine being a mother in Gaza right now.
How the fuck can we scream name-calling at each other when the Pillar of Evil is unleashed again?
So kind of you, hackworth1; but be forewarned a detractor here often calls me a racist. (Doesn’t matter that my son is black and my daughter is First American…and I write diaries on indigenous issues often, and…tra la la…) ;o)
Sleep well, dream well if you can.
Thanks for the diary, ET. It’s helping me keep up with what’s happening. I read about the actions of the Israeli government with a heavy heart and a deep dread of what’s to come for the long-suffering Gazans.
I fear the ground troops. Deep, deep dread and helplessness. They don’t have a hope, only terror.
Gen. JC Christian, Patriot hasn’t been known in the past for asserting very openly against Israeli aggression, but he has changed markedly. Here’s a twitpic he reposted.
It’s all so inhumane.
Excellent sign. It’s the short version of the history.
A photo essay from the Counterpunch Newswire: No Safe Haven.
Max Blumenthal:
I understand that you feel the discussion has wandered afield, and I think it’s a fair point–but any discussion of this subject is bound to become heated. And when someone thrashes his or her way into the middle of it with deliberately incendiary comments like “attack Israel and die”, I feel compelled to respond. My gut tells me that not responding to this kind of ugly dung-slinging allows it to go on.
I’ve seen far worse comment threads – here and elsewhere. No doubt, I’ll be writing more about this before the current assaults are over.
Philip Weiss and Alison Deger from Mondoweiss are in Israel, covering the war crimes as they happen, as best they can. Here’s Weiss on the “Israeli Street” (emphases added):
World Health Organization statement on critical shortages in Gaza hospitals on eve of the Israeli ground assault:
on twitter:
Anonymous has released a video in which they threaten to crash 10,000 Israeli web sites:
So next it will be all the talking heads. Iranian rockets into Israel. We will hear nothing else. Of course nothing is going on in Syria. I have to work 7 daze a week now so following war and finance is getting to be a challenge. Thank you for the help you lend.
{{{{homeroid}}}}
No.
Start picketing conservative synagogues. Did you know they fly the Israeli flag inside those places?
Shoot, Jon73; just go scrub a blackboard. I did, and I feel better already. ;o)
(And as ET said, he’s seen worse, as most of us have.)
Yes, I’m afraid so–the tone of the original post more than justified the tone of the response. When and if he wants to stop thumping his chest and glorifying murder and acting like a bully, I’ll be happy to have a civil conversation with him.
Hiya, wendydavis. I’m going to do my best to maintain some emotional distance from the subject today…but someone bragging like an idiot about Israel’s death-dealing skills from the safety of his living room just pushes my buttons.
I hear that, my friend. It was a creepy thing to read.
Bravo!
For those who might want a refresher on Michael Neumann’s brilliant essay on why Israel has no right to defend itself against Palestinian attacks:
” … Israel is the aggressor in this conflict, and the Palestinians fight in self-defense. Under these circumstances, Israel’s right of self-defense cannot justify Israeli violence. Israel is certainly entitled to protect its citizens by evacuation and other non-violent measures, but it is not entitled to harm a hair on the head of a Palestinian firing rockets into Israeli cities, whether or not these rockets kill innocent civilians.”
Greta and FOX are on to it – Israel , Gaza Conflict + Iranian Rocket !