There is nothing like a “close encounter of the asteroid kind” to captivate the public. The resulting effect is what yields profit for Hollywood studios that make movies of the sort where brave Americans take a space ship to an interloping rock, and plant explosives to blow the thing up just seconds before it reaches dear old Earth. (At least with the old Star Trek series the crew on such death-defying missions was international, if not the Captain.) It is part of why we find it easy to neglect planning for less exotic natural disasters, such as the destruction in Russia caused by a meteor the other day (granted that that one was both big and hard to anticipate).
Stories for another day, those. Here I want to focus on another aspect of the fascination, and one that has been resurrected in recent media coverage such as WaPo’s of the flyby yesterday of asteroid 2012 DA214: the disappearance of the dinosaurs.
In 1980 the Nobel Laureate physicist Luis Alvarez, his geologist son Walter, and some others announced that there was a high concentration of the element Iridium, rare on earth but plentiful in celestial bodies like meteorites and asteroids, at the boundary between the Cretaceous and Paleogene geological periods in an area of central Italy, which boundary is precisely the time when some paleontologists believed the dinosaurs went extinct. The natural inference from this discovery, suitably buttressed by some peripheral considerations that need not detain us, was that an asteroid hit the earth at that time, some 65 million years ago, in a catastrophic collision that wiped out the giant reptiles and a good deal else. The elder Alvarez then ran with this hypothesis in a big way.
Now Alvarez was a big shot well before 1980, and even before his Nobel in 1968. I was familiar with his presence as a graduate student working at Berkeley’s Lawrence Radiation Laboratory in the late 1950s, where he was a leading figure, indeed, a person with a reputation in the back corridors as an “operator.” He led the group of physicists associated with the 72 inch liquid hydrogen bubble chamber, the sexiest of elementary particle detectors of the era, which leadership is what would get him (never mind the other physicists) his Nobel. That is to say, he was a pioneer in the development of Big Physics, where experiments are now carried out by dozens of people (so many that sometimes the Physical Review articles that report their results list their names in a footnote rather than in the byline).
I worked in the Lofgren group, which was responsible for operating the lab’s then principal atom smasher, the Bevatron machine (pictures), which supplied beams of particles for the benefit of the bubble chamber and the apparati of other groups. My mentors were William Wenzel and Bruce Cork, who had recently been part of the team that isolated the antineutron, and I also got to work with the eventual Nobel winner James Cronin for a time, while he was visiting from Princeton. Apart from physics proper, in the area of instrumentation we worked on developing the elementary particle detection device called the spark chamber, and constructed some of the first of such devices.
I mention this especially because there was a marked contrast at the “Radlab” between the cultures of the Alvarez and Lofgren groups. (The lab also had the Moyer group, which was closer to ours in mode of operation, and there may have been others that I don’t remember.) This contrast was reflected in (or was caused by?) the respective instrumentations that they worked with. The 72 inch chamber was an enormously complex device that required engineers and specialized technicians to actually operate. The first spark chambers, including ours, were largely constructed and operated by physicists themselves, physicists who were pretty much old-school “shoestring and sealing wax types,” who built their own electronic circuits, and who saw the spark chamber as a natural development from the rather crude scintillation counter electronic detection device. (On one occasion I saw Bill Wenzel with a soldering iron in one hand and a string of lead solder in the other, his eye on an oscilloscope to check the signal, risking a severe shock by repairing a circuit with the power still on.) Very much non-Big Physics.
In passing, for a time some continued to rebel against Big Physics, or at least to lament the passing of the Little variety. (I can’t find a reference to it, but I recall reading that Cronin’s co-Nobel winner Val Fitch — who had a reputation as a crack electronics technician — once worried about “what will happen to the professor and his four graduate students.”) However, granted that I am now out of touch, as far as I know any such movement is now dead.
Now back to cataclysmic collisions. Here I have to bring in another actor in the drama, Immanuel Velikovsky. In 1950 he published a book entitled Worlds in Collision, which popularized the idea of “catastrophism” as a significant factor in geological history. He did not mention dinosaurs, nor even asteroids, but spoke of the planets themselves as coming into close enough contact to cause supposed earthly events such as the Old Testament’s destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah or the Deluge. He seems to have had some theory of how electromagnetism works that allowed him to postulate that it was the mechanism that produced the encounters. To say that all this was controversial would be a gross understatement: The academic world was furious, and the book’s initial publisher Macmillan dropped out after being threatened with a boycott of its textbook line. More recently, on the fiftieth anniversary of the book’s publication, a survey of 25 leading scientists produced no one who thought Velikovsky had a “positive influence” on current catastrophist theories among scientists, and some who insisted that he had a negative influence.
Thus, although Velikovsky still has his defenders, I have no problem in believing that he was a crackpot, pure and simple. However, what the survey just mentioned shows is that his idea that Earth has experienced catastrophic celestial events was widespread at the time Alvarez put forth the asteroid-dinosaur theory. (This was once confirmed to me anecdotally: The late Joe Weber, best known for attempting to detect “gravitational waves,” told me that Velikofsky used to hang around the halls at Princeton haranguing people with his theories.)
I cannot prove to you that Alvarez was in any way motivated by what was in the air about catastrophism, and while I haven’t checked any textbooks dealing with the matter, I’m sure they have no truck with Velikofsky. But I do know that physicists misunderstand history, including that of their discipline. The “history” that they offer on the first day of a course on some subject within the field is only a hagiography of its founders. But the best examples are from the order of events in post-1960 elementary particle physics, as noted in my 2006 essay “Why I am no longer a physicist, or, one person’s perspective on the relation of humanities to science in our era.” Sometimes an error is trivial, like saying that the word “quark” comes from Joyce’s Ulysses, when it is actually from Joyce’s Finnegans Wake. But I hope it will be agreed that the issue of which came first, experiment or theory, is significant, and there is at least one case where the profession gets this wrong.
In the 1950s a candidate for a particle with the property then called “strangeness minus 3″ was possibly observed in natural radiation reaching the earth, using the very primitive detection technique of nuclear emulsion. As I reported in a seminar at the time, the fact that the observation was not definitive did not deter theoretical physicists from suggesting schemes that incorporated such a particle. Then one was definitively observed using the bubble chamber technique, whereupon it was trumpeted that one such theoretical scheme “successfully predicted” the strangeness minus 3 object. Experiment before theory became theory before experiment, and the latter sequence is what entered the textbooks. (If you pin down the physicists about this they will say that the iffy nuclear emulsion event cannot be considered the actual observation of the particle, as if that somehow negated the fact that real people developed real theoretical schemes based on the possibility that it was.)
I do not know if the Alvarez hypothesis of an asteroid killing off the dinosaurs is actually right (it remains somewhat controversial in paleontology, for all its being repeated as gospel by the Mainstream Media every time the subject comes up), and as I’ve said I do not know if he was actually thinking about Velikofsky’s theories when he had the clay sample his son had found tested for Iridium. I do doubt, however, that the asteroid-extinction theory simply fell from the sky, as it were, into his mind.
But then, I’m probably a dinosaur.
Photo by Jakub Hałun under GNU Free Documentation License




38 Comments

I’ve also heard that there’s another theory that the volcanic eruptions at the Deccan Traps in India contributed to the K-T Extinction Event. Probably a minor contribution, but that’s something I’ve read
Thanks for your interest and for the link, j in s; I guess that would be one reason why at least some experts are skeptical of the Alvarez hypothesis.
I also understand some think the extinction was not an event, but a relatively gradual process.
Comparing Velikovsky to Alvarez is like comparing Ayn Rand to Plato and calling them both philosophers.
Velilovsky was a total wack job. I read his books. He said that Venus and Mars actually collided with the Earth and caused all sorts of events that found their way into ancient mythology.
Velikovsky has no more credibility than Erik von Daniken and “Chariots of the Gods?” and “Gods from Outer Space.” I am glad to see that you have no problem in believing that he was a crackpot. He was. So why even mention him in a serious post?
Alvarez is a real scientist who hypothesized about an asteroid striking the Earth and at least contributing to the extinction event that doomed the dinosaurs. He shouldn’t even be mentioned in anything that refers to Velikovsky.
Again, IMHO.
That’s right. I think the theory was that it took several million years for all the species to die out
IMHO the extinction was probably mostly caused by the asteroid impact at the Chicxulub Carter. FWIW my first exposure to all of this was an episode of Nature on PBS, some years ago
Chicxulub Crater
“So why even mention him in a serious post?”
Nice to spar with you again, OB, and I see that this time you’ve left the “H” in IMHO. I mention him because, as I said, he changed the atmosphere in which Alvarez worked, like it or not. {The notion that the history of science is a succession of ideas transmitted in time — “The Great Chain of Being,” as Arthur Lovejoy called it — with no effect from the world around their possessors, is, like the Great Man theory of political history, the product of the minds of people who need to get out more.)
Nice comparison with Ayn Rand and Plato, BTW.
Yes, that crater, discovered after the AH was proferred, stopped some of the skepticism, although not all, apparently.
However, my concern is not so much whether of not the theory is right as with how it was arrived at.
I heard Velikovsky speak at Brown in 1963 or thereabouts, in the form of a debate between him and Leon Cooper (my physics faculty advisor) and a member of Brown’s excellent Geology Department (can’t remember who). To say they wiped the floor with him would be an understatement. Nowadays, of course, he would be up against Leon’s unacknowledged son and heir, Sheldon Cooper.
The issue of a gradual-v-rapid extinction was the question they were trying to deal with. Remember, the K-P extinction involved on the order of 50% of species (mostly marine organisms), and was recognized by paleontologists before the first dinosaur fossils had been recognized.
The question was, how much time did that 1 cm thick clay layer in Gubbio represent? They knew that the ~10000 tonnes/year of extraterrestrial debris that falls to the Earth would leave a measurable trace of iridium in the rock. If the Ir was more concentrated, sedimentation rates must be slow and the extinction was probably gradual.
What they found was that the Ir concentration was _so_ high it could only be accounted for by a huge single-source input of extraterrestrial material (volcanoes have not been demonstrated to be sources of significant amounts of iridium).
The asteroid hypothesis came _after_ the measurements were made, as the simplest explanation for the elevated Ir. It has since been supported by the discovery of Chicxulub crater, and the discovery of quartz crystals with shocked structures at several K-P sites.
I don’t know the people, but I’m sure any competent physicist could have shot him down. I’m less concerned with that than with the atmosphere the popularization of his ideas created.
I don’t disagree with anything you say. Again, my concern is not really with whether or not the theory is correct.
It’s after 11:00 in the East, folks, and I’m off to bed. But comment away, and I’ll check in in the morning.
Sorry, but you had said in a previous comment that you were concerned with how the theory was arrived at. I was trying to point out that the impact hypothesis wasn’t where Alvarez began, it was where he finished (I’m talking about Walter here, not Luis)…
I have no idea why dinosaurs are extinct, but I appreciate your post!
Nice job tying it all together in addition to throwing in the spur of Velikovsky as one of the motivators for shaking up the standard model Uniformitarianism of the era.
Of course, after Catastrophism once again became acceptable to think and speak about, it became too much of an ‘A
(to continue…) too much of an “Answer to Everything.” There was a period when cosmic impacts were offered as the explanation for just about everything you could think of, from the origin of the Pacific Ocean to all of the various extinction episodes on Earth, to the Mars Dichotomy and so on. It became silly.
As for whether Alvarez was influenced by Velikovsky, it seems to me it was more the general atmosphere of the era. But it’s unlikely the atmosphere would have been what it was without the goading and taunting — and popularity — of Velikovsky.
Good morning, and thanks to jrepka, nixonclinbushbama and ChePasa for the further thoughts while I was sleeping.
Here’s an interesting “sociology of science” article from 1986 on how the AH came to be accepted in the 1980s, at least (it does not take the Chicxulub Crater discovery into account).
FYI, people, this diary with your comments scores 4th place today in a Google search of “Asteroids Dinosaurs,” although its further down (on the 3rd page) for “Asteroids and Dinosaurs”; make of that what you will. (Of course, our leader dislikes Google; if you go with Bing, with “Asteroids Dinosaurs” we’re 5th, “Asteroids and Dinosaurs” 4th! Maybe she has a point.)
OK. That’s a good answer to my question. Velikovsky was, if memory serves, on the bestseller list for awhile, and though he was never taken seriously by the scientific community, he did succeed in shaking up the almost Ptolemaic view of an everlasting earth in part of the public consciousness, and made it much more receptive to Alvarez’ asteroid strike theory.
Anybody who read “The Far Side” comics knows that cigarettes killed the dinosaurs.
Ah, here’s the link:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://s4.hubimg.com/u/209795_f520.jpg&imgrefurl=http://hubpages.com/hub/Gary-Larson&h=659&w=520&sz=71&tbnid=ZWPHkbbHvbSogM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=76&prev=/search%3Fq%3Dfar%2Bside%2Bdinosaurs%2Bsmoking%26tbm%3Disch%26tbo%3Du&zoom=1&q=far+side+dinosaurs+smoking&usg=__7Rgx-rMhnl4ocEIEKnde18IF3DE=&docid=ikc-W5ljGrM2zM&hl=en&sa=X&ei=VBIhUc24BqS30AHr1IG4BQ&ved=0CDIQ9QEwAQ&dur=4889
William Glen wrote about how the geologic community gradually came to accept plate tectonics in “The Road to Jaramillo” (1982). He stated that the problem with writing about scientific revolutions after-the-fact is that few interviewees are willing to admit to being late adopters.
His book about the impact hypothesis (The Mass Extinction Debates –1994) dealt with the issue in more-or-less real time. One of the take-away generalizations is that “soft-rock” people (sedimentary petrologists, paleontologists) made up the core of the “anti-impact” crowd, as opposed to the “hard-rock” geologists (geochemists, igneous petrologists) who were early supporters.
Interestingly, the anti-impact geologists have largely become catastrophists as well, arguing that the iridium anomaly (and the extinction event) can be tied to volcanic activity associated with the Deccan Traps (mentioned earlier by john in sacramento). There are no “gradualists” any more, at least as the world once understood the term.
Sorry, folks, I’ve been away on a wild goose chase (see comment 143 here), and I thought this thread had died. I’m pleasantly surprised to learn otherwise.
I’m glad we have common ground on this, OB, and I actually remember that Larson cartoon. I guess I accept your assertion that there are no gradualists left, jrepka, not knowing enough about the geology and paleontology fields to refute it.
Although I haven’t really studied it, the article I link to @ 17 apparently argues that the phrasing of the argument and the receptivity of the media heavily conditioned acceptance of the catastrophist view in the 1980s.
Well, IMHO the sateroid impact event along with resulting enviranmental damage offers the simplest and best explanation. The evidence seems to strongly point in that direction.
It would be interesting though if the volcanic activity at the deccan traps and anywhwere else for that matter can be linked to the impact.
quick edit:
Well, IMHO the asteroid impact event along with resulting enviranmental damage offers the simplest and best explanation. The evidence seems to strongly point in that direction.
It would be interesting though if the volcanic activity at the deccan traps and anywhwere else for that matter can be linked to the impact.
There are scientists who think that is possible. I suppose it is. I don’t know how they would prove it, though. Maybe they will. I don’t know. It’s certainly reasonable to surmise that an asteroid 12 miles long striking the Earth at tens of thousands of miles an hour would generate some serious seismic effects.
The Earth must have felt like Nick Nolte in that DUI mugshot that Jon Stewart used when he said “The Earth is tired!”
As I understand it, the Deccan Traps phenomenon is generally considered an alternative to the asteroid hypothesis in causing the extinction, not itself caused by the asteroid (here is a link from as recently as December 2012). Do you have a reference, OB or anyone, to those who think the latter is possible?
Here’s what I refreshed my memory with yesterday
http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/education/events/cowen1b.html
OK, just skimming that article it looks like it covers all the possibilities, j in s, although it’s from as long ago as 1999. As far as the possibility psalongo and OB suggest is concerned, he 2012 report on a convention session that I cite @ 26 (which btw has a neater dinosaur picture than the one our editor put in above) makes the 2 possible causes of the extinction seem pretty either/or.
It seems more than likely it was a one two punch that led to the extinctions.
PS of course we all know that all of this is a librul conspiracy theory, because the bible and the Texas Board of Education says the Earth is only 5,000 years old and Jesus rode dinosaurs /s
This supposedly is video of DA 214. If genuine, this is a fantastic view.
Apophis 99942 is due for a near miss in 2036. It is about 300 m in size. I can hardly wait.
“Jesus rode dinosaurs” LOL
Your other link, however, gives a Google results page, presumably with the specific reference you want on it.
I wonder, though, if at this point we might recognize that we at FDL are not the geologists/paleontologists who can really settle the issue of just what killed the dinosaurs. Could we maybe get back to historical questions rather than scientific ones?
For instance, it seems that the geologist cited in my 2012 link @ 26, Gerta Keller, has been arguing pro-volcano, anti-asteroid for years. (She even says the Chicxulub Crater found after the Alvarez hypothesis is not evidence for it after all.) Any thoughts on why she’s so determined? (but no “pushy woman” theories, please)
Ah, yes, F33, back to the enchantment of which I speak in the 1st sentence above. But why would the video not be genuine?
I only found it a few minutes ago. I would expect with all ground observors and the Air Force spy satellites, that there should be many other videos.
Yea, the Texas Board of Education link was a dig at creationists
And why is Gerta Keller so wedded to her theory?
A kind of academic dissonance, or ego-centric dissonance maybe? I think there’s a better word for it, but I can’t think of it right now. What I mean is, that some people are so fixated on their theories and p.o.v. that they can’t see that there’s a better way of looking at, or doing something. For example, the “very serious people” who got the housing bubble wrong; or the wars; or … whatever, it was, or is. They. can. not. admit. they made a mistake.
Reminds me of this clip from Happy Days; unlike a lot of people, Fonzie at least tried to admit he was fallible
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkqgDoo_eZE
That might make sense, j in s, but is pretty general. But I guess we’d have to be Gerta Keller scholars to get any deeper into it.
I don’t think of it as egocentric, except inasmuch as we are all kind of egocentric about the ideas we bring to the table. It’s a human trait. And most scientists are human.
The point of science is to be able to look at ideas from the outside, to test them against reality, and to reject those that don’t fit. But it is also a conservative endeavor, in that changes to the orthodoxy aren’t accepted until the evidence is overwhelming (and sometimes not until the priests of the orthodoxy retire).
Until Galileo, many people recognized that a sun-centered universe was a simpler model than and earth-centered one, but virtually _all_ observational evidence pointed to the earth being a non-moving object orbited by the sun and all other bodies.
But for every Copernicus, Hutton, Darwin, Einstein and Wegener, there are thousands of legitimate scientists with hypotheses that don’t make it through the filter (not to mention the thousands of crackpots trying to prove Einstein wrong or that the earth is flat or young or swelling or shrinking).
The process is not always pretty, but today we know more about the universe than we did yesterday, or last week, or five hundred years ago, and tomorrow we will know more…
“Most scientists are human.”
LOL, I guess, jrepka, or are you maybe thinking that some animals are scientists because they can solve problems?
“Tomorrow we will know more.”
Here I must thank you for offering something I can debate in earnest, because I find this article of faith that the student gets on the first day of Physics 101 problematic. I believe it is true for some sciences, especially molecular biology. But as for the supposed queen of sciences, physics, I am skeptical.
As explained more fully in the 2006 essay linked to toward the end of the diary above, the field of elementary particles has become such an esoteric wisdom, inaccessible to all but a select few, that I no longer even know how to frame the question of whether or not it correlates the data of the observable world in an optimum manner. Whether or not we will know more tomorrow depends in the first place on just who is meant by “we,” for it surely does not include thee and me, and in the second place, those whom it does include have no external check on whether their theories do make sense or are just a means to fool themselves.
The problem is linked, I suspect, to the notion criticized at the end of the post, that theory at least usually precedes experiment — a belief that suits the ideology of the primacy of mental over manual labor, among other things.
Physicists did not always believe this, and there are cases in the history of the field where it is demonstrably false. The best example I know is the fact that the very theory of relativity of Einstein — “theory” in name only because it is now as established in fact as are the orbits of satellites determined by Newtonian gravitational theory — was developed in large measure to explain an anomaly uncovered by the Michelson-Morley experiment: the speed of light is the same in any frame of reference moving with respect to another frame of reference; therefore the straightforward way of arriving at the relative speeds of such frames needs a correction involving space and time themselves, which we do not notice in everyday life only because the effect is small.
The problem is also linked, I think, to the physics profession’s integration into the socio-economic-political elite, but I’ll leave that for another time.
Damn. I can’t find a link. I heard it on NPR last week. There’s some sort of conference on the subject coming up. Sorry, but I don’t even remember where it is for sure. Canada, maybe?