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Last night, Georgetown University and Amnesty International hosted former CIA analyst John Kiriakou and Col. Steve Kleinman for a discussion about counter-terrorism and justice "The Law and Morality of Interrogation"
Kiriakou is now managing partner of a global corporation which specializes in competitive analysis, international business risk analysis, and -who could have anticipated- Hollywood consulting for movies based in the Middle East or focusing on terrorism. But prior to that he was in the CIA (from 1990-2004). Originally an analyst, he was in counter-terrorism operations and led the raid that captured Khalid Sheikh Mohammed in Pakistan.
Speaking out against the use of torture was Col. Steve Kleinman, retired AF Reserve. He was a career Military Intelligence officer who spent 25 years in Human Intelligence and SERE. The former director of the Combat Interrogation Force, he is now a consultant. Col. Kleinman testified before Congress against the use of torture on a number of occasions.
Although believing that 90% of the time torture is useless and even counter-productive, Kiriakou holds on to his 10% and thinks we were justified torturing prisoners right after 9-11, and that it’s OK to torture now and apologize later. And even though the information obtained was dated, he states that the waterboarding of Khalid Sheikh Mohammed prevented the major attack that Osama bin Ladin threatened after 9-11.
Col Kleiman makes the case against torture, to him there is a difference between what is true and what is thought to be truth.
Here is the link to the symposium.
I found the Q&A most enlightening and perhaps more revealing than intended.
11 Comments
Dugg
Thank you, Elliott.
Elliott -
I managed to catch the better part (excluding Kiriakou’s initial presentation) of a rerun of the symposium and totally agree about the Q&A portion. Hope that lots of pups check out your link.
Disgusting as some of the callers to Washington Journal are, C-Span *is* priceless for providing public access to events such as this.
Thanks ES! and Laura.
I too caught it this morning in progress. Was startled at Kiriakou’s take but felt a little better about him when I had a chance to hear his entire presentation. Still, his 10% -for which there is NO scientific evidence- is so so wrong. Kleinman is right, it’s counterintuitive to treat detainees the way we have. It only makes it worse for the US.
NOT IN OUR NAME!
I pray that Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Addington, Yoo, et al are brought to the bar of justice and made to pay for their crimes against the prisoners, as well as their crimes against humanity. There is no excuse. Makes me sick to my stomach to think about what we have done to others, so many wholly innocent and now forever marred.
Um -
KSM was captured in Rawalpindi, Pakistan on March 1, 2003 so how could waterboarding KSM have prevented
O.K. maybe they had some plan in 2001 that they didn’t get around to putting into effect and the CIA counted that as preventing an attack. That brings up the CIA’s (lack of) creds on just about everything surrounding 9/11. The 9/11 report itself was a whitewash, and it looks like this former CIA analyst John Kiriakou is part of the whitewash.
Cognitive Dissonance? The fact that the Iraqi’s know that we torture must be a major factor in their not looking at America as Liberators.
How many American troops have been killed by Iraq’s who’s friends and relatives are in American Prisons in Iraq, where the Iraqis assume that they are all being tortured?
yet we have testimony from other investigators that we gained far more information before we resorted to torture
he might have gotten some information through torture, he lost much more then that because of it
AND he created the envirnment that inspires more terrorism against this country, if he stopped one attack he created 3.
there is no way the information prevented an attack by bin laden, bin laden isn’t caught and his network has grown not deminished through torture, if bin laden has plans of attack he still has plans of atttack
I have to add on to this
for every person you torture you have created a multitude of new enemies which EASILY counter act any information you THINK you gained
every friend becomes a new enemy, every family, and every person they tell their story to becomes an enemy
each and every one of these enemies is HAPPY to counteract the information you might have gained which you THINK prevented an event, you have CAUSED events
and don’t forget ALL the information you have lost for each bit of information you gained
and don’t forget all the people who MIGHT have become alies, who might have agreed with our cause and who might have given us information willingly
you have lost all of those people, you have also lost anyone who might have thought to surrender, they will not
claiming he gained information to prevent an attack is a joke, he lost information that would have not only prevented an attack, he lost the ability to win the hearts and minds, he lost the ability to gain an alie
Thanks, Elliott. Torture is perhaps the most important of the many reasons our country needs to bring an end to our most disgusting era on Tuesday.
Most excellent!
How shall we find our way without an honest, (an honorable) moral compass?
Thank you, Elliot.
edit — (”and” …)