Rep. Joe Wilson (R – SC-2) Calls President Obama a ‘Liar’ during Joint Session of Congress |
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| By: Elliott Wednesday September 9, 2009 6:31 pm | |
OK, it’s kind of more like "audio" with reaction shot, but here it is: Rep. Joe Wilson (R-SC2) calls President Obama a ‘liar’ during joint session of Congress.
Update: we have a screen grab of this fine example of the guys that the White House wants to get all bipartisan-y with:
Meet Joe Wilson
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282 Comments
A philanderer; a closet case; a pornographer; and a liar.
You’ve go to give it to the South Carolina Republican Party -
they truly believe in the Big Tent approach.
Is Obama going to call him out like he said he was going to in his speech?
I sure hope so. He sounded serious about naming names to me.
Too bad he didn’t do it right then on national Tee Vee. Like a teacher calling out the obnoxious student.
From Robert Kaiser’s WaPo0 chat tonight:
Censure.
Sanctions.
Broom closet office in the sub-sub-basement.
No pork for you, Mr. Wilson.
I sent Wilson an email demanding that he resign. Forget censure.
No, Wilson called himself out. It was a tremendous political gift to Obama.
Here’s my email to my Congresswoman:
I tried. Server down.
Not surprising. I got in there pretty quickly when it was confirmed he was the one. The site was already getting slow.
That was my take, also. Especially since it should be getting a lot of airplay from our “Jerry Springer” corporate media.
Running against Wilson in SC 2010 is a U.S. Marine named Rob Miller.
Here’s his ActBlue page.
I’m just sayin’….
Semper Fi.
He will be popular back home. After all, he wasn’t elected by liberals.
How about some polling on the PO in his district? Honestly, it should be done. Show that MFer what’s what. Then talk and talk and talk about it on TV.
Sounds like a good candidate for a blanket party to me.
They will throw him a parade.
And if you want to give a shout out to Joe:
http://www.house.gov/formwilson/IMA/issue.htm
Wilson apology statement posted at CNN:
I don’t think Pelosi will forgive him quickly. I’m hoping he goes unrecognized by the Speaker for the rest of the session.
Face it the Public Option will not happen, you have the President saying that the PO will only cover 5% of the country, another thing..how did the number of people without insurance go from the so called 47 million to 30 million? I agree, Rep Wilson was out of line, but when you say your not going to covering illegals in the bill..where does it state if they show up at an emergency room they will be denied coverage?
If Republicans are true to form they, through their cable and radio surrogates, will try to make Joe Wilson somehow heroic for shouting out like a five year old. Whether he should or should not have yelled is moot. Where exactly in the proposed legislation is there a provision to give healthcare to undocumented people? If he cannot point to it or the provision once seen is obviously not that at all the issue is beyond Wilson’s obvious lack of home training and personal discipline he is obviously incompetent to represent anything.
Do you mean denied coverage of denied care? If coverage: we’re all paying for it anyway, as the hospitals have to bill everyone else at a level to stay afloat.
If you mean care, then I have nothing else to say to you.
Wilson’s apology [cnn]:
I’m just pointing out a simple fact…how do you reduce cost when you will still have 14 or so million people using emergency rooms? Also, you never answered the question how did Obama go from the so called 47 million to 30 million without coverage?
I thought Republicans don’t apologize. Apologizing is for Commies.
I wondered what that catcalling was.
Censure? Resignation? Uhm, yeah. We’re talking about a Republican here…
According to Phoenix Woman, He broke House Rules
He should be punished according to House Rules.
Considering all of the republican sex scandals … I think they have a different meaning for “big tent” … but if so … they’d probably all be little, bitty, “pup” tents ….
Not rescinding his “liar” blurt.
Republicans are Lord of the Flies anarchists, the whole lot of ‘em.
Time to call a North Dakota boycott of Hostfest, which includes putting nonScandinavian known turdblossom Karl Rove in its Scandinavian-American Hall of Fame.
Show SC Rep. Joe Wilson’s opponent some love?
From ActBlue:
“Rob Miller left the Marine Corps in 2008 to offer South Carolina fresh ideas and innovative solutions. His message was heard loud and clear: Joe Wilson got the race of his life. Rob got over 46% of the vote, with very little funds, and now he’s running for Congress in 2010–and needs your help!”
https://secure.actblue.com/contribute/page/robmiller2010club?amount=20.10&recurring=16&refcode=2010club
The R’s have probably already signed this joker up to do the next televised Republican response.
Oh and as twisted as this sounds, I would rather have this Joe Wilson guy than another Blue Dog, at least Joe Wilson does a good job disgracing his party, opposed to a do-nothing/corporate whore Blue Dog.
Maybe Wilson got confused and thought he was at a health care town hall. After all, the Republican Party encourages rude yelling at those.
Wilson was out of order and treasonous in calling the POTUS a liar. Fact is Joe Wilson has taken lying to a new art with his op-ed full of lies about death panels. Clearly, he couldn’t stand the clarification by Obama which “outed” his own lies just last week.
Joe Wilson’s opponent is getting contributions like crazy tonight and we will continue a campaign to unseat this arrogant, juvenile, moronic, classless buffoon for his comment tonight. He, single-handedly, degraded the honor of our Joint Houses of Congress. He needs to be punished for being out of order and he needs to apologize to the american people for degrading our country and our citizens as he did.
That’s a third of the total uninsured. Like The ‘Publicans are a third of the voters.
How about we don’t let the ‘Publicans vote? It’s not like they actually contribute anything to the country. /s
Early polling looks pretty good.
[snicker]
Actually, now that I think about it, the House and maybe even the Senate may get a lot more “yellish” soon. Plays well to wingnuts, so why not do it? Seems to me to be the Village Way.
[snicker turns to sad face]
We need to publsh Rob Miller’s (Act Blue) site extensively to every blog we know as well as to our personal address books. We will drive unamerican Joe Wilson out of office. People like him aren’t worthy to represent the good people of this country.
I liked the reaction of Dem House Majority Whip James Clyburn (D-SC), per The Hill:
From the same piece:
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi, who spoke to FOX News before learning who delivered the yell, said she didn’t intend to move to sanction anyone for it. FOX
And then Joe Barton (R-TX) on CSPAN doesn’t repudiate Wilson, he equivocates, saying Obama essentially lied.
guess she has to keep the powder dry some more
What would Walter Cronkite say?
The only thing missing is the shoe………thumping on the table
Censure
Ha. That’s a good observation.
Do you think Obama will invite him to the Rose Garden for a beer?
You yourself have some apologizin’ to do for disrespecting one of our Firepups.
It’s off the table.
If your name is Joe Wilson and you think the president is lying, this is how you are supposed to call him out on it.
Shouting at him from the cheap seats, OTOH, is just Not Done.
O called the lies the lying liars have been telling about healthcare reform “lies”. So does Charging falsehood or deception apply to the prez when he is addressing Congress?
Now before I’m accused of trolling, I’m just sayin’
I am calling her office tomorrow and you all should as well.
This should not stand.
And yes, Rob Miller 2010.
Gotta be the driest powder in history by now. Maybe we’d better put up some “No Smoking” signs around her just to be safe.
You’re barely scratching the surface of SC Republican politics.
These rules were passed by the 109th Congress (in GOP hands) to protect W from the dirty hippie Democrats during debate. And one of their own broke the rules — to W’s successor’s face!
At C&L, Nicole Belle is reporting that Miller’s raised over $11k in 2 hrs.
I’ll say!
Just finding out about all this, but has anyone mentioned yet what kind of history Rep. Joe Wilson has with Governor FathersDay, who is one of the great liars of all time?
The dude basically stuck his head in the noose, figuratively of course, and all we gotta do is take away the floor.
This would only be true if he were a progressive.
Two out of three Americans who watched President Barack Obama’s health care reform speech Wednesday night favor his health care plans — a 14-point gain among speech-watchers,…
was I watching the wrong speech?
Yea that worked out well didn’t it.
Your still not answering the Dems talking point for the last 4 months, 47 million to 30 million..where did he get those numbers from..How do they know 14,000 lose health care a day..show me
If you can’t get through to Wilson by email try either sending a fax or sending a post card by snail mail (any snail mail in envelopes must be screened by security and takes too long).
The Honorable Joe Wilson
United States House of Representatives
212 Cannon House Office Building
Washington, D.C. 20515-4002
DC Phone: 202-225-2452
DC Fax: 202-225-2455
District Offices:
1700 Sunset Boulevard, Suite 1
West Columbia, SC 29169
Voice: 803-939-0041
FAX: 803-939-0078
903 Port Republic Street
Beaufort, SC 29902
Voice: 843-521-2530
FAX: 843-521-2535
Wilson’s on the House Subcommittee on Health, Employment, Labor and Pensions — what a phenomenal waste of space.
Slap him up for not doing better by workers while you’re at it, and that he should make it up to them by ensuring they have another extension of unemployment until the structural problems with job creation has been resolved.
Can’t hurt, might help.
did anyone notice that the minute wilson said something, Pelosi’s eyes got really big and then asked biden for something, biden passed her a piece of paper……
Whoo hoo!
Can’t wait for Miller to win, and then how two weeks later the “cool kids” here who dominate the discourse will be bitching how Miller sold us out because he doesn’t vote perfectly on every issue. It’ll be great, and so productive!
The only federal money a going to an individual (in the reform proposals I’ve seen) is subsidies from Medicaid and Medicaid won’t give money to anyone here it knows isn’t here illegally.
If Republicans believe ‘illegals’ will somehow benefit then the onus is on them to show how that could happen. They haven’t and won’t and can’t. Rep. Joe Wilson is a disgrace. Valerie Plame Wilson’s husband should sue him for disgracing his name.
Not when it is a demonstrable lie instead of an unfounded smear.
It’s not enough to apologize to the President – how about to all Americans? Every mother who tries to teach her children respect? Every teacher who tries to maintain control of a classroom full of students? To anyone who has sat through a speech thinking the content was bull-pucky but listened respectfully all the same. I’m sure the Congressman’s mother taught him better. Perhaps he could take a page out of Ms Palin’s book and leave his job early?
Two out of three Americans who watched President Barack Obama’s health care reform speech Wednesday night are familiar with chicken coops, coupes and triggers. They’re not too sure what co ops are, though.
As most of your know, I am a more conservative writer here.
Even so, I cringed when someone, I didn’t know who at the time, yelled “You Lie” during the speech. It was inexcusable under any circumstances.
Thankfully, he apologized pretty quickly afterwards.
As to the substance, many of us here in California can testify to number of services, one after another, that courts have ruled must be supplied to illegal aliens if they are supplied to other citizens.
So, there was no lie, the bill doesn’t provide for it, but it is easy to see that slow train wreck coming.
Were it to be passed in HR 3200 form, soon after, the voices would be heard saying, “How can you provide health care to one family and deny it to another that lives right next door?” and the same appeal to sympathy would start the march toward providing it. And those opposed being accused of being heartless, cruel, etc., even though we were told by the same people it wouldn’t be part of reform.
It is easy to see.
No matter, Wilson, if that’s his name, was way out of line. Bloggers here are right to call for some censure.
Of course, we all also know that this is going to be the distraction Democrats point to over the next few days.
The speech was good, offered some new ideas, but ultimately is a good salesman selling a bad product.
While I’m loathe to be a provocateur’s Internet Secretary, since you can probably use “the google” yourself, you might try Politifact, a respected arbiter of political claims.
The claim about 14k rates “mostly true”
For his next act of desperation and cowardice, Wilson will publically screech “We will bury you.”
It’s good Biden didn’t have a gun to hand her. /s
Yeah, what’s the fun in that when we have John Spratt and Jim Clyburn to kick around right now. We’re not using all of our outrage opportunities.
Yeah, I know, I know. But the rules say one thing and the actors did the other.
Neither accusation bothered me much. O’s was legitimate. This Wilson joker’s wasn’t. Just sayin.
Not necessarily. As Shakespeare observed “a jest’s prosperity lies in the ear of of him that hears it.” The same is true with a political speech.
Right on bro’, cuz if those people are going to come here to work it’s awfully important to make sure they don’t get medical care.
Get off your high horse.
How outraged were you when the guy threw the shoe at Bush? Likely cheering.
I don’t know any Republicans cheering Wilson.
And THAT is the difference between Democrats and Republicans.
…So, there was no lie, the bill doesn’t provide for it, but…
Next!
Get off your camel!
That was an Iraqi, not a sitting member of Congress!
What you said, it is to laugh.
You illustrate my point perfectly.
Instead of B’sing people, just be honest and say that is your aim, to cover illegals as well as citizens. Then, we can talk about the real bill, not the PR’d one.
You’re right they just bring guns to rally’s where POTUS will be, and they carry signs depicting the image of Obama as Hitler. Don’t come here and lecture about civility. STFU!
It wasn’t a Democrat throwing the shoe at Bush.
Let me get this straight. You don’t want your agricultural labor, your cooks, waitresses, and nurses aides healthy just because they are undocumented workers?
Nonetheless, while that is an interesting scenario, the statement has been that the bill would cause healthcare to be provided to undocumented workers, in spite of the fact that there are clauses that specifically prohibit that from happening. To continue to assert that is a lie, and to call the president for calling that out as a lie compounds the lie.
You show me the bill where it says they will be covered. Otherwise you are the liar.
As most of your know, I am a more conservative writer here.
Nope – can’t say that I’ve ever noticed you.
@75 – Instead of B’sing people, just be honest and say that is your aim, to cover illegals as well as citizens.
Maybe that’s why.
Still quite disrespectful to the President. Would you want an Iraqi to throw a shoe at Obama, should the Iraqi feel that troops should be pulled out today instead of in a year and was angry about Obama not pulling them sooner?
If you say, yes you would, then I know you are a person of principle. If you say no, then we know your principles move depending on who it on the end of the shoe throwing.
I guess you missed all those signs, and, likely people even here writing on this blog, who likened Bush to Hitler.
Whoops! Forgot my “food restraint policy.” Haven’t been on a thread with trolls for quite a while. Therefore the only further troll food I shall offer is in the form of recipes.
No, you said:
So my point is you don’t want people who come here to work to have medical care. And it’s you Republicans who let them in. Your constituents in the business community insisted on it.
Joe Wilson, from OpenSecrets… #1 industry donor in the 2007-2008 cycle:
Total Indiv PAC
Health Professionals $58,485 $28,985 $29,500
I guess we know who butters Joe’s bread and puts words in his mouth, and money in his bank. I wonder how much they’re kicking in after tonight?
And did Pelosi look like she swallowed a razor blade when he yelled out?
So we already know that you and other “more conservative writers” believe a profit motive should rule over life and death decisions. We got that.
Can you please explain to me though, that if an “illegal” child comes to a hospital with a life threatening injury or disease, how do we morally justify turning that child away because his parents can’t afford it or produce proof of citizenship?
I’m looking for your help, as someone who has come face-to-face with a similar situation, and I’d like to have some help on how I tell them, “Sorry, your 3 year old is just going to have to die. Have a nice day!”
this is how civilized people deal with teabaggers.
The Ex Marine who is running against wilson.
http://www.robmillerforcongres…..page_id=17
It’s not in the bill ! And “illegals” are people – they are sick children, pregnant women, old people, injured people (who do the work we won’t), and you sound as if you would like them to just die. And please don’t try to tell us that you are a compassionate conservative – my stomach will only take so much.
Uh, please re-read my post. It SAID it wasn’t in the bill.
Then, under that, it says how it could turn out that way. Certainly, you can’t promise it won’t turn out as I say.
Let’s be honest. Health care is not denied at the ER if you are not a US citizen.
At the ER I visited a couple of weeks ago, there were signs prominently posted that said essentially, “We are required to stabilize you, nothing more. You may be moved to another facility, or not.”
Is it now or should it be illegal for anyone who is in our country for whatever reason from another country to be denied the opportunity to purchase insurance?
I know…. I am not going to take the bait again.
It is understandable. This one is marginally sane and rational. Coherent even. Easy to mistake for a rational partner.
So.
You sayin to deny coverage to humans, in ER?
Who lack healthcare coverage?
What? Let ‘em die?
Where’s yer bottom line?
I wanna know.
You want them to die?
Or any poor folks, white, brown, black or yellow?
You want folks to die, before they use ER?
And really, I’m just askin.
Cuz I wanna know, what do you think?
What do you know about Wilson’s district? is there another more progressive candidate? Should we keep our powder dry until the perfect progressive candidate is identified, vetted, groomed and trained and funded and runs in South Carolina’s 2nd district?
Miller has run once against Wilson, came within 8 percent last year; previous four congressional election cycles that district voted Repub by a 13% or greater margin over a Dem, when it had a Dem to run (in 2002 there was no Dem candidate).
The health care reform negotiations are plagued with the same problem we have with other legislation — we have leadership by default. We do not have enough good progressives in the pipeline who are ready to run, so we get whomever will run under a Dem or Green banner. Until we change this structural deficit of leadership, we are going to get more Blue Dogs. And the kind of change needed doesn’t happen through people complaining in comments at progressive blogs.
“Shoo Pie”
1 part lies
1 part deception
3 or 4 parts media complicity
Mix well = 5 or 6 parts immoral war
Add Iraqi. Stir violently.
One or two shoes should fly fairly accurately at generator of lies and deception.
Serves over 4,000 Dead Americans.
That may be because Chimpie’s Grandaddy helped the Nazis setup their concentration camps, where a lot of liberals were murdered. There is that attempted coup revealed by Smedley Butler. Some of the most prominent American Fascists, including Prescott Bush planned to destroy American Democracy and replace it with a dictator similar to Hitler.
I’m trying to email Joe Wilson but you can’t even link to his website. (Hopefully others are telling this _ _ _ where to go.) Bush lied to everyone for two terms and no one in a position of power ever interrupted him, or acted disrespectfully to him. Why do Republicans get away with saying they are Patriotic when they so are not! Message to Wilson: Take some Valium or whatever it is they give people with anger management problems or poor impulse control. We know you have health and insurance coverage to provide you with that care.
P.S. What’s going on with S.C. politicians. Sanford, Graham, this guy. They’re all nuts.
well I did a naughty thing yesterday….. very naughty thing….
Faux noise on large TEEVEE in the cafeteria and walked right up to the screen and pushed the power button….
One lady said…..”why did you do that” ….. because I wanted to
One guy said ….. “who gives you the right? ……. “I said ….. I’m dying and if you don’t like it, turn it back on……..HA…. must of done something with cable/TV connection….. walked away…. smiling….. Ha, did a naughty thing again!
Damn! I didn’t even realize I hit reply.
Won’t happen again, pups, I PROMISE.
I can see how you might think that. But, again, it does seem like you would like the bill to cover illegal aliens.
That’s fine, but don’t get huffy when someone detects that there might be real intention to do that.
Same as don’t be all offended when someone says the public option is only a path to single payer (ie, govt take over of health care) when that is exactly what you want. Most progressives backing the public option really want single payer.
Nothing wrong with wanting it, it might be good, but don’t be offended when someone calls a club a club.
Right, smack, dead on.
Ok, lemme ask ya this:
If spending our money on illegals for healthcare services like birth, accidents, illness and such is so bad.
Where do you draw the line on the killin of our troops, their shit treatment healthcare wise here at home, and how do you feel about killing the civilians that WE do, in OUR name, in foreign wars?
Cuz DAMN, there’s trillions upon trillions of dollars wasted away, but I NEVER hear your kind holler about THAT waste?
I mean, who’s side are you ON, you patriot?
CNN poll:
sorry, deep in day job work but if no one’s passed it along, quick twitter petition on Wilson:
http://act.ly/petitions/today – top one
I think we have a moral impasse here. We on the left tend to see health care as a human right which should not be denied to anyone (a value we share with the rest of the industrialized world). We feel it falls under that right to “life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.” for us the highest value is preserving and enhancing human life. Cregan and other conservatives believe that the highest value is letting corporations make as much profit as possible with the least imaginable interference in their ability to do so.
I agree with what Barney Frank said on Maddow; it’s OK to heckle. The British parliament is the better for it. The president shouldn’t be put on a pedestal.
Ironically I tend to agree Obama lied in the speech but not especially about immigrants. I assume the part that talks about excluding immigrants was the part that gives people help in paying for their mandatory health insurance? I can’t see how you could argue that the rest of it would exclude illegal immigrants. For example am I expected to believe that the part that bans pre-existing conditions does NOT apply to illegals?
Of course its immoral and plain stupid to try and exempt illegals from heath care, not to mention racist pandering.
I’m not saying I am anything.
I also didn’t say illegals shouldn’t get health care.
I am only saying that there is a reasonable expectation that even though the provision for illegals isn’t in the bill, that they will be in the bill when the real world hits the road.
You are doing exactly what I said would be done, and proving my point.
Bravo, katymine!! Good on you!! w00t!!
Bush invaded foreign nations, like Hitler did, so there is that comparison. The Hitler-Obama comparison makes no sense, in part because Hitler did the opposite of providing health care for all. Comparing Obama to Hitler just shows the ignorance and insensitivity of the screaming rightwing extrme. But regardless, this discussion is about Joe Wilson’s behavior. He is a member of Congress, supposedly not some crazy screamer on the street. No one in a position of power in the U.S. ever compared George Bush to Hitler.
You are so smooth. Do you own a clown car?
E, I’m disappointed, even with the snark.
Pelosi WILL act, I think. She should.
If not, we should HAMMER her.
I’m sure YOU will, yes? *G*
Man did the speech bring the trolls both stoooped and paranoidly selfish out tonight.
Oh Katy but what a great naughty thing!! You are a brave wonderful lady!!
You so funny… It’s “call a spade a spade”
Maroon
NO!!!!!
It’s FOX, sayin it’s off the table.
We press it, he gets creamed and maybe forced to resign!!
PRESS IT!!!! Please PS, PRESS IT!!!
This is a moment!
Like the guy in my SoCali! Today! On open mic! I sleep with a lobbyist 20 years younger than me! HE’S RESIGNED ALREADY!!!!! BUSTED!!!!
Come ON PS, press it!!! *G*
Isn’t calling “Liar” in a room full of politicians redundant?
Except that all the bills currently before Congress, as well as what Obama is proposing, contain specific language prohibit covering illegal aliens. I do not actually agree with this provision, but it is in there. Nor is there anything in existing law which would extend the benefit to illegals.
Yes, the public has labeled the matter of health care reform as left vs. right, Dem. vs. Repub.
But it’s really People-care vs. Profit-care.
There are somethings we agree are better provided through the aggregation of our buying power — like highways, schools, services like fire and police.
We agree as a people that we need to fix our health care, but we are stuck in the political frame instead of the business frame. It’s also quite deliberate in that the 1300 health insurance companies in the U.S. do not want us to begin to question why we have so many insurers and yet competitive pressure doesn’t drive down costs. So they pony up money to ramp up the political hype to keep us from seeing the real problem.
Sort of. In a very Firesign Theater/National Lampoon way.
Dude’s toast TP, he’s already apologizing.
I don’t think he’s off the hook.
But, I like your style. If we don’t press it, he MIGHT slide off the hook, the worm he is!
*G*
MAKE THAT CALL!
I will, in the mornin.
*G*
scumbag
Hard to argue with a person who assumes a lot about me when they don’t even know me.
If you are so hot on providing for the needy, let me ask you, What percentage of your income did you give to needy people? How many neighbors who needed it did you bring food to? How many kids in need of school materials did you help get them? How many older Americans with no living relatives did you go visit? How many homeless guys did you buy a good meal for? How many children in a hospital did you go and entertain with friends?
I’ve done each of those in the past year.
asswipe
I also sent an e-mail about his bad manners. The site has been down most of the night. His facebook and wikipedia page are also under seige. His apology was weak tea. I hope folks stay on his case until he squeals for mercy.
dickhead
You need to read your history about the health care system in Germany.
I guess that the Teabaggers got a chance to shine tonight with Rep Wilson, Joe. If the Dems don’t take advantage of that neanderthal and his mouth, they don’t deserve to be in the Majority.
On what do you base this ‘reasonable’ expectation?
And given the fact that illegal immigration isn’t going to end as long as dirt-cheap exploitable labor is desired, what is your approach to public protection from outbreaks of infectious disease among those who are most probably going to be the early victims of it?
There are already over 3500 comments on Huffpo regarding Joe Wilson, Repugnant of South Carolina.
Yet you object to providing medical care to those in need. There seems to be a disconnect.
Good for you!
Yes, he’s a crazy screamer from the street who made it to Congress. Nice work if you can get it.
Evenin Ms Elliot and Firedogs -
just got back from Big Orange -
Rob Miller has raised over $30K since Wilson’s spontaeous combustion – and that’s only his ActBlue page – anecdotal reports reflect equal amounts coming in to his campaign site
Ah, but you liberalishly IGNORE the OBVIOUS FACT that by the time it’s all done, because you in your dark freeloading heart harbor sympathies for brown people, THERE COULD BE. Maybe. Eventually. AND THEREFORE THE PRESIDENT -IS- A LIAR!!!! Also.
Pot, meet kettle
He can shove that so far up his ass he’ll be shittin’ it for a year.
NO disconnect, it’s more of the I’ve got mine fuck you compassionate bullshitism.
am only saying that there is a reasonable expectation that even though the provision for illegals isn’t in the bill, that they will be in the bill when the real world hits the road.
———-
I don’t see that at all – the only strong supporters of illegal immigrants are the companies that like to hire them and they aren’t ABOUT to get caught advocating taxpayer money for the health care of illegals.
Now the christianists SHOULD be pushing for illegals to get health care because they claim to follow jesus who told them to take care of the poor, and that the rich won’t get into heaven (unless there is some miniature camel we don’t know about….)
Jeebus Christ, we are all standing right here, you don’t have to yell.
Remember that the shoe thrower was a journalist, not a politician.
Again, you are proving the point that the intention is to cover them some way or another eventually.
As far as your other question, as I noted, in California, there have been rulings saying that if other citizens are provided a government service, then illegals must be too.
I see the logic in that. You can’t do otherwise.
My only point is, it is likely illegals will end up getting covered, so it is reasonable if someone brings up that point if they object to illegals being covered. Maybe they shouldn’t feel that way, but it is legitimate to bring to potential for it to happen.
We have a Pat Buchanan revisionist history of the Thousand year Reich, that only lasted 14 years. Pat is trying to get over the hurt also.
evening doc
Parody, my friend. All in the service of parody.
I beat Jesus wouldn’t have health care in this country. Too poor. Too liberal. But he did have that God connection going and that helps with sickness a lot.
Evening, BFL. How’s it hanging these days?
You know what’s incredibly stupid about the prohibition of treatment of illegals?
National security.
First, in the case of a pandemic, illegals would continue to work and avoid getting treated if they came down with an undiagnosed and untreated bug. Look at what happened in Mexico with the earliest cases of H1N1; Mexicans resisted going to their own doctors (for reasons that are culturally unique to Mexico) and they carried the disease around until they died. I could see nearly any and all illegals resisting a trip to the emergency room, no matter whether they were Slavic or Hispanic illegals, simply because they were afraid. How many people would they expose while untreated?
Second, providing emergency-only treatment to illegals would provide an opportunity to log and track them. It might offer us more hard data on whether our efforts to stem illegal immigration are working, or whether our efforts to streamline the legal immigration process have really improved.
And then there’s the diplomatic issue; why should Americans expect to get health care overseas when they are unwilling to provide emergency-only care here to any and all foreign citizens?
Just seems pennywise, pound foolish not to offer emergency-only care.
And I’ll bet that the insurance companies’ cost overruns and double-digit increases have jackshit to do with illegal immigrants.
Jesus would have the healthcare plan that republics want everyone but themselves to have. The pray you don’t get sick plan.
Dr. Bong, can you point out where I said anything about DrDick’s thoughts or point of view.
I only asked the questions. DrDick may be a fine upstanding person who cares about people so much he directly does a great deal to help them.
I don’t assume one way of the other, that is why I asked before accusing. Seems fair to me.
oh. so – so. can’t believe that wilson clown. just amazed. how ’bout you?
Adolph Hitler advocated physical fitness and George W. Bush liked to jog. Ergo Bush is Hitleresque!
-G
What’s with the consternation over illegal’s and emergency rooms and this bill? In every state I’ve lived in “failure to render aide” is a criminal offense, not to mention the civil liabilities. I’m don’t believe congress could change that if they wanted to.
Frank, just go back and read.
I’m fluent in German, and have also studied German history, for a very large period, not just relating to WW II.
One would be wise to learn about the current system; Gesundheitsstrukturgesetz
Rayne – all your points are good. However, it’s absolutely necessary that they be PUNISHED for violating our laws by suffering illness and possibly death. Just like women should be punished with childbirth and not get the easy out of an abortion if they have sex outside of marriage. [snark, of course]
I’ve done each of those in the past year.
A fucking saint, you are.
You know what the lesson in all of this is?
Don’t feed the fucking trolls. (I do it myself due to a lack of self control)
They aren’t entertaining. They never make cogent points. You cannot change their minds. And they have an irritating sense of superiority. So, like a good friend of mind said once,
s
c
r
o
l
l
Oh yeah, I am also promoting the lie that President Obama’s healthcare plan will pay for breast implants, penis enlargements and free V*agra.
It will make the mouth breathers think twice.
-G
Caring for everyone who lives in the country makes both moral and practical sense. I have already made the moral case, the practical case is that those without provide reservoirs for diseases which spread to the rest of us. We are talking TB, plague, and many other diseases which have higher incidences in the US than other industrialized countries because we do not treat everyone.
I am currently trying to talk to my dinner table.
-G
No, yer reading the wrong polls.
And I LIKE the numbers . .
Honest? That speech wasn’t all that bad.
It’s simple.
Can you live with the deal done, and the future to come?
MY fears are with Obama’s capitulations to big corps.
And I don’t think there’s any way to tell how bad it is until the legislation’s writ, passed, and published.
The Waitin’s The Hardest Part, ya think?
I’m not proving any point; I just asked about your response to a hypothetical. But you still haven’t showed how, given the proposal as it exists, that it’s ‘reasonable’ to expect that illegals would be covered under the bill.
So?
Up to my neck in the beginning of the semester. Looks like fall is coming to the northern Rockies, we are getting over night lows into the upper 30s, though highs are still in the 70s.
The only thing I’d have added to Obama’s speech (other than “i’ll veto any bill that doesn’t have a public option) would have been some statistics showing how we DON’T have the best medical system in the world. Lots of folks are clueless and think we do. It’s just amazing.
By the way, in the revered UK, illegals ARE treated for emergencies without asking payment at the time. and then they are BILLED for it.
And I can tell you, on my many visits there, when I asked people about the NHS system, they had good things to say about it, but nearly everyone, one for one, mentioned they didn’t like paying for illegal immigrants, which they get from many countries.
Are you completely ignorant, or can’t use google to find yer answers?
Yer the worst kind of troll.
Ignorant, and illiterate, and lacking research data for your shit.
Feh.
And having a more entertaining conversation I am sure.
Yep. Some “illegals” will get some healthcare, just as they do now. There’s no real point in continually bringing this up since no one is arguing with this point.
Any chance though that you can help me out with my question at comment #91, which I’m sure you just missed? Especially since you’ve done so much face-to-face helping of those in need, you must have some helpful insights for me.
Glad you think so.
I just have an objection to people who talk a big game of compassion and yet don’t lift a finger for the guy down the street. Or the kid around the corner.
I dig doing stuff for people. I wish more people did.
And, I don’t like people who don’t know me accusing me of a viewpoint I don’t have.
It’s 78 now in The City Beautiful. But we haven’t had rain in 2 days!!!! Couldn’t handle the 30’s.
You piece of pure cow dung.
You would deny healthcare services to ANYONE?
Why?
You piece of pure cow dung.
You don’t like humans.
You are not human.
Humans CARE about humans.
Cowdung.
Joe Wilson’s phone is busy and his website has been taken down or crashed, but you can still contact him through a congress email: follow link at bottom of article to contact Wilson:
http://redcowranch.wordpress.com/
night all; i hope to have happy dreams of racist nimwit joe wilson getting run out of the house.
Yeah. It’s difficult, though.
This is too easy, smacking trolls.
If any Democrat had done that during any Boosh Speech, he/she would have been escorted out by Denny Hastert’s mafia and shackled to the train tracks on the Orange Line.
Who gives a shit?
Father Bong says ask, NOT accuse.
And I would guess: 1,1,1,1,1,1,1
;~P
I know. I am not taking my own advice.
The purest form of compassion is when one does not boast about it.
Stupid is, as stupid does.
You can’t CURE stupid.
Ignorant can be educated, stupid is forever.
I could go on, but . . . trollin, ya know.
Sigh, I fell for it again.
As they say in NY to trolls:
Fuck you, you fuckin fuck.
That’s just a rough quote . . . . ;-)
Thanks Kelly . . *G* *waves*
You have no idea what people here do so don’t come in here pretending like you know. You and your party are Hypocricical, even calling Obama socialist because he wants to help EVERYONE with healthcare. Spew your crap elsewhere.
Damn, you live such a rewarding and full life! So in tune with the world, you are.
I’d be glad to help you.
You say to them, “We’ll take care of you.” And you do.
I never said illegals should not be cared for, though many jumped to that conclusion.
My point, said and clarified a few times, was that someone who brought up an objection to the bill on the basis of it covering illegals, was not being unreasonable.
They might be wrong for wanting to exclude illegals, but it certainly is quite reasonable to think that if HR 3200 passes, it will eventually cover illegals–whether by court decree of some other way.
And, over and over people have said here they want illegals covered. So, be honest, don’t get huffy when someone says the bill may cover illegals.
Argue why illegals ought to be covered.
[waves back]
Can I tell you, I LOVE the F word? I really do. Too much. So I use it rarely and savor the FUCK out of it!
[waves some more, just ’cause it’s fun to wave!]
As to the substance, many of us here in California can testify to number of services, one after another, that courts have ruled must be supplied to illegal aliens if they are supplied to other citizens.
So, there was no lie, the bill doesn’t provide for it, but it is easy to see that slow train wreck coming.
Ah, I see. So even though the bill admittedly doesn’t provide medical care to undocumented workers (and in fact says expressly the opposite), the possibility that a court might rule that way one day (with or without such healthcare legislation) means “there was no lie.”
That’s some mighty powerful pretzel logic there, my friend.
Thanks, I appreciate your kind thoughts. It’s good to know someone cares about me.
Get the fuck over it!!!
Hey, Larue!
Looks like you got me covered
:)
I’m out
Wait!
I thought Obama was a fascist! He can’t be a Socialist and fascist at the same time since those two are diametrically opposed. I’m so confused!
No, get on with your bad self who does so much good for the world and tell us why “illegals” should not be provided health care. Please.
Snark, of course.
Our trollish friend’s obsession with illegal aliens getting health care is so typically ineffective and misdirected.
Illegal immigration is a global problem, not merely a U.S. problem, and yet for some reason the G-20 don’t seem to be up to tackling the root cause of the problem. Why is that?
We’re talking about some of the most gifted business minds in the world, who are quite used to finding the root cause of any business problem and knocking it off in order to resolve resulting inefficiencies which eat away at profits. But solving illegal immigration’s root cause never makes their super-duper to-do list.
Instead each member state of the G-20 does some half-assed patch job of a solution and ends up antagonizing some portion of their population in doing so.
Why do people immigrate to another country illegally? Until we answer constructively all the reasons why, it’s never going to be solved.
And we’re wasting precious time and energy fighting over a rather minuscule portion of our total health care budget on an issue which could be resolved more effectively if we actually made an effort find and address the root cause.
I’ll throw out an example of our country’s inability to focus on problem-solving and root-cause analysis. Did you know that Pfizer sells five million dollars worth of a certain ED medication which comes in pill?
Five million bucks a day.
Nobody ever died because they couldn’t get a stiffy, did they? But obviously Americans think this is far more important than dealing with more complicated and challenging issues.
And it’s why we have to put up with bigots puling about illegal aliens getting life-saving health care.
Just talking facts. You see, I need to say that because if I didn’t some person here would say, “Well, once you were there and someone said that.”
No, this health thing has been an issue for quite some time. When there, I was genuinely curious how the system there worked and how people liked it. I talked to many people and got a real variety of answers.
Another thing I found is that it appears as many people as can afford it buy supplimental insurance because of waiting times, etc.
But, in fact, it doesn’t and contains specific language prohibiting that, so all your hypotheticals are nothing more than bullshit as are complaints that it is going to cover illegals. Will a few illegals slip through the cracks and get care, probably. Do I care? Fuck no. Are the wingnut wankers screaming about death panels and covering illegals and all the rest of Faux Spews bullshit even remotely rational? Fuck no!
On that note, it is time for me to head out. Have a full crop of young minds to corrupt on the morrow. Take care all. Even you cregan.
I see my “recipe” suggestion ain’t flying, as regards ignoring trolls.
Hmmm. What might be satisfying?
Na Na. Na Na Na Na. Hey Hey, GOODBYE!
Must be just about everybody, huh?
So are the idiots lobbing the labels.
The guy asked a question, and it seemed he deserved an answer.
Since I didn’t get an answer from DrDick, I guess he had no answer, but I could be wrong.
But, since you say I should get over it, I assume that means I made the point and no one will say, “Oh you don’t like illegals” or something similar.
Right. Except the actual scientific research shows no difference in wait times between the US and either Britain or Canada for basic or necessary medical care (and lower wait times for many routine procedures). There are slightly longer wait times for purely elective procedures.
Can you quote me the section of the bill that says that? I would like to read it.
In California, the legislature also passed laws saying illegals were not covered by certain services, and the courts ruled, “No you can’t.”
I don’t care if illegals get health care. Just don’t bag on someone for saying it is quite realistic that it will come to pass.
I think until we are done with talking about health care reform we are going to continue to see trolls.
Wish I could get a peek at the IP addys so I could tell if we had some formal support from outside sources for their work.
I don’t think it’s coincidental at all that as health care as an issue heated up, that the number of persistent trolls also increased.
troll upNo, only those can can.
I asked them, can you go to a doctor and just pay for it if there is a wait time, they said you can, but people are able buy supplimental insurance for that.
As you know, Canadians had to sue all the way to the Canadian Supreme Court for the right to buy supplimental insurance.
According to Wilson’s wiki page, Wilson was formerly on the bench. Nice judicial temperament there.
We know your kind all too well. You have no point. You have no plans. You are the party of, well, NO. We don’t care what you think or what you have to say. Our country has serious problems and we need serious answers not some assholes who pretend to negotiate while they never have any intention of voting for anything. Illegals are here, we are NOT going to bury our collective heads in the sand and pretend as though there are no ramifications. If you truly cared about humanity this would be a no brainer for you. What is that Jesus said about doing for the least of us?
When I grow up, I wanna be just like katy!!
was smiling a moment ago, recalling one of my all time fave thread moments – you, running upstairs from a racist infested thread telling Jane – “come downstairs, bring the TREXinator, STAT – the big one !!!”
now those were some trolls, not the pedestrian oxygen thieves were presently infested with
Yer terse, hoss, yer terse.
I love yas for it.
*G*
People in Britain who buy supplemental insurance to avoid waiting times happen to have quite a decent basic system already in which they don’t have to resort to emergency room care like the uninsured do here.
I’m sure it isn’t perfect, but the fact that some choose additional coverage doesn’t really mitigate against the desirability of a plan open to all — even if some folks don’t like paying for illegals.
It’s nice to see you’re not as cold-hearted then as many of your fellow “more conservative writers.” You support socialized healthcare for those in need because it’s the morally correct thing to do, and we’ll figure out how to pay for it. I give you credit for your compassion toward “illegals” and others who cannot afford the incredible costs of basic healthcare in America.
Oh, and for clarity’s sake and because this is apparently such a pressing point for you, HR3200 does NOT have any provisions to cover “illegals.” That’s a simple fact. Would you like to debate facts, or more of the hypotheticals you seem most interested in?
First, on the subject of illegal immigrants:
An ER isn’t equipped to determine a patient’s citizenship. Even if a patient isn’t a U.S. citizen, the ER shouldn’t be required to determine if the patient entered the country legally or illegally or if they overstayed their visa.
An ER should deal with a patient’s medical condition without regard to issues of citizenship or insurance. For example, if an illegal immigrant comes into the ER with Ebola and is turned away, everyone with whom that patient thereafter comes in contact may be infected and infect others, etc. More important, ethically an ER should never turn away any person in need of medical care or deny them needed care.
Since some entity has to pay for the medical services provided if the patient is uninsured and too poor to pay the bill, why not allow illegal immigrants to buy insurance, if they want it?
Second, on the subject of abortions:
I was really troubled by Obama’s statement that the government won’t pay for any abortions. Since abortions are lawful, they should be covered. Caving on coverage for abortions for the sake of bipartisanship isn’t going to enlist Republican support. Obama is naive, if he thinks it will. His phony statement was an insult to women and everyone who supports choice.
didn’t see you were here. you are indeed a naughty, naughty firedog – good on ya !!
You know what I hate paying for? Killing people in other countries. I really hate that.
DrDick, here are the actual facts.
According to a study done by OECD, a very liberal, single payer supporting group, the percentage of people waiting 4 months or more for elective surgery, which they classified as anything not of an emergency nature, were the following in these countries.
UK 38%
Canada 27%
Portugal 58%
What was the US? 5%
YOu can google OECD or google Canadian health care waiting times and get access to it. OECD does many health care studies and has for many years.
I googled the wait time thing originally because I thought it was just anecdotal myth about waiting.
From my Blue Dog rep’s site:
Guess what… If an illegal alien walks into a hospital, they receive care. We all pay for it in higher costs for our own health care. Obama simply stated that his vision of health care reform does not provide insurance to illegal aliens. Joe Wilson displayed what so many “conservatives” do, they react on pure emotion with no regard for reason or logic. It would not be good to tar and feather him because he would end up in the E.R. and miss the point completely. He is simply an idiot… CALL HIM, EMAIL HIM today, tomorrow and the next day and next week. Put his office on speed dial.
http://redcowranch.wordpress.com/
Uh, I think I said a number of times that you can’t deny illegals health care. Why are you barking up that tree?
Bravo Katy!
WTF -
“That” what and who did you ask?
WTF does this have to do with Canada?
:(
You are the one here bitching about it. Like I said Get the fuck over it.
cregan, do you understand the difference between legislation and the courts?
If you have problems with constitutional decisions of the courts, you should address that directly.
Opposing legislation because of nonexistent provisions is baseless nonsense.
Mason, relax. Abortions will be covered, you see your reps are smart. They know how the system works.
As it was explained by my Congresswoman, you cannot use public dollars to pay for abortions. But, the public option will have lots of private money flowing into it. See? Only some people get subsides. Others pay all or part.
So, it is that private money that will pay for the abortion. Voila!
Ok fine, Sister Mary.
But, sometimes, just after I’ve gone 7 daze up in teh Sierra, with 5,000 DFH’s and all that music, and no ‘puter, and no phones, and all that vibe and such.
Sometimes, when I come home again, I’m READY for a fight.
*G*
But it’s always a cheap win. And then I feel dirty again.
So, you might be right, still. Also.
Ignore the trolls.
But damn, Mary. They’re so chewy!!!!! *G*
Prolly fattening, too? Ya think? *G*
FUCKIN SPEW!!!!!
Wasted cheap Merlot, too.
Damn, Greg, a warning will ya?
*G*
The Canadian decision is know as Chaoulli v. Quebec
What a reasonably informed person will say about it, including an offering from the OECD may be found here:
Naw, I don’t like people putting words in my mouth.
As all LEGAL heathcare should be.
I am only saying it is reasonable to see it coming.
Here is another example. When the patriot Act passed, people said it could lead to the arrest of librarians. Now, the bill didn’t say that, but it could be logically inferred that it was reasonable to expect such an outcome if the bill did pass.
Same here.
Again, I’m not saying illegals shouldn’t get health care.
We agree! You see, by dialogue and reasoning together, it is possible to come to some agreement.
While its important that we hold Joe Wilson accountable for his disgusting behavior, I hope his outbursts will not detract from the rest of the Presidents address.
So, is there a public option or no? Seems like Obama represented some new hybrid bill which we have yet to see.
Interesting. I’ve worked throughout Europe and have circled the globe many times over for my job. Being a single-payer organizer and activist in America for my entire adult life, I make it a point to ask my co-workers and people I end up talking to extensively how they like their healthcare systems.
I can honestly say that in the countries that have much more socialized healthcare systems, I have not found one single person that would trade their system for the American system. Not one person in probably over a 100 people sampled.
And ironically, I worked just today with a doctor that heads an entire department at the largest hospital complex in a top-20 American city, and when we got to talking afterward, he proudly proclaimed he was a “socialist” when it comes to healthcare and that he wants single-payer yesterday even if it meant a pay cut for him. He said most of his colleagues feel the same way. That whole Hippocratic Oath and all…
*G*
“Argue why illegals ought to be covered.”
Fuck you, you fuckin fuck.
Cus they are humans.
End of story. Ya fuck.
And FUCK YA, ya cretin. Er, Cregan.
Puckin futz.
This statement proves my point, they do acknowledge the wait time situation.
DrDick said there were no wait times. My only point was that the facts show there are wait times and it is not a myth.
Yes, only well off people can afford supplimental insurance.
Someone else asked, who did you talk to? No scientific sample. Customers of mine, waiters in restaurants–short questions and answers–cab drivers, etc. Just people I ran into.
I’m fresh from a great vacay and jam scene.
I’ll tire of this needless diatribe soon, but for now, I’m RIPE for the rippin!
Glad I help ya Doc . . . always an honor to be in yer foxhole!
*G*
Yes, as I said, I got a variety of opinions, though I think I said most liked what they had.
ON the other had, as noted in the waiting times post, if you have only known waiting times, you are used to it, and don’t think there is anything wrong with it.
I just like my most recent situation with this.
My wife called the doctor on one day, he saw her about 4 days later, told her she needed some surgery (not emergency) for a reproductive organ, and got the surgery 4 days after that.
She was in a high stress over it, and if she had to wait, it would not have impaired her health, but I can’t imagine life during that waiting time.
With that, I liked the dialogue, and wish you all a good night.
But lastly, I’ll say it again, Wilson was way, way out of line and I would not object to him being censured.
Oh, I forgot, thanks for your kind thoughts larue. You seem to be quite a good, caring person.
Not a WORD about the issues, or my utter and complete disdain and contempt for you.
You amaze me, Alex.
Alas, I tire of yer tribbles, fuzzies and what nots.
Bon mots and, FUCK YOU, YOU FUCKIN FUCK!
*G*
Damn I love the smell of burnt troll in the evening.
Tastes just like chicken, too!!! *G*
Another right wing slimeball heard from, no surprise there. He shouldn’t have even attended the speech. If he hadn’t gone, he could have kept wearing his white sheet and stayed at the cross burning, which is where he really wanted to be anyway.
Honored as well.
Good health to you and all
Joe Wilsons Home office phone number is… (803) 926-1413
Again, it’s nice you have so much compassion for your fellow humans, but might I suggest you use different terminology when describing undocumented workers?
I know for a fact they don’t appreciate being called “illegals.” Since being busted for not having papers is a misdemeanor, just as driving faster than the posted speed limit is, should you be referred to as an “illegal” as well, meaning someone who violates the law as a driver (of course, assuming you’ve driven over the limit at some point)?
It would be a compassionate thing to do and I hope you take it under advisement.
Another interesting point, since I’ve put off just getting a simple check-up for some things for years because of not having insurance, and being worried that my “wait time” for a potential problem would be FOREVER.
Under our current system, people often don’t get procedures for 4 days, 4 months, or 4 years. They never get it. This is the ultimate “wait time,” don’t ya think?
Again, you can keep harping on particulars and distracting from the main issue using false talking points, but the central question never seems to be answered for me…why is there a profit motive built into such a life and death situation as healthcare? This makes no sense to me whatsoever. It’s the same reason we don’t have profit motive built into police, fire depts, military and so on.
Healthcare for All is really a national security issue, since the more healthy our population is, the stronger America is as a whole.
Senator Joe Wilson’s office number is busy and his website has crashed, but you can call him at home and politely request that he resign:
http://redcowranch.wordpress.com/
ES is up at the Mothership and Trolls have been forbiden to enter!!
SenatorRep. Joe Wilson’s office number is busy and his website has crashed, but you can call him at home and politely request that he resign:http://redcowranch.wordpress.com/
Don’t give too much power…
thanx
Seriously, how is all of this name calling and judging South Carolinians as a whole productive. Does it really make your point or counter it? I was genuinly looking to these blogs to garner more insight and education on the topic at hand (what the truth really is about the reform despite one individual’s bad behavior tonight),but rather it is forum for personal opinion and propaganda. Not one person knows anything except they hate Republicans and SC or that they’re embarrassed to be one. This is a joke, but you’re not alone- there are many other sites like this with folks doing the same thing. It would be nice to find a group of educated people who know what they’re talking about and keep to the topic rather than having to weed through a bunch of judgemental tirades to find the few who do. This though, the hyperfocus on political party lines and personal agendas is why no one actually knows what the truth is. With this much effort into the case of proving the “right or wrong” of this man’s actions, letter writing, Facebooking, ad nauseum- seemingly no one cares what the reform will be and who it will benefit? Why aren’t we talking about that? Why isn’t that what the concern is about? Wilson will be dealt with, but shouldn’t your (bloggers) efforts be more on knowing what the truth is rather than who is denying it? I for one would like to know! Anyone?
Joe Wilson Campaign Funding:
Health Care Campaign Funding: $471,000 Reasons
#1 Health Professionals $244,196
#9 Pharmaceuticals/Health Products $86,150
#13 Insurance $73,050
#14 Hospitals/Nursing Homes $68,000
Finance and Banking Related: $444,000
#3 Real Estate $195,179
#5 Lobbyists $117,533
#10 Business Services $78,500
#18 Commercial Banks $52,250
[Source: Opensecrets.org]
Joe Wilson is soooooo typical of weepublicans . . . ignorant, and proud of it!!
Reminds me of middle school bullies.
So, lemme get this straight . . .
You seem to have a problem with liberal/left bloggers adopting the same sense of outrage/disgust towards reichwingers that the lunatic fringe of the weepublican Party — a.k.a. its constituency — has consistently demonstrated against the Prez since he was elected — ??????
Or, as the French would say, the dog bites when it’s poked with a stick?! — mon dieu!!
Well, duhhhhh — guess that blows your theory of peace-loving libruls who have no stomach for a fight, doesn’t it, hmmmm?
The weepublican Party has turned into a front for the fascist corporate aristocracy and needs to be called out for it at every opportunity. Their goal is to weaken the economy and moral fiber of our country to the point where we are ripe for a race/class war followed by a rightwing coup d’etat.
And everything they’ve done for the last 70 years, bears this out — just look at their record . . . we’re looking more and more like Mexico everyday.
An under-educated and misinformed population is the easiest to manipulate/control . . . and makes for a willing, slave-wage labor force, too.
Tom? Tom Friedman? Is that you? You sneaky devil.
are these things documented?
if so would be good to have those links
that’s a good post and I concur, while the bill might not provide for illegal alliens getting health care it seems that they will anyway
however
not under a legitimate “public option”, that health care will take the form it has already, they will go to emergency rooms or clinics for their health care, not the “public option”, let me explain;
the public option is a plan you opt in to for a fee, the comenserate fee as to the cost, the more that enroll the MORE efficient not the less efficient, you pay for this option
so it really can’t possibly be true with an actual “public option” and real concervaticves SHOULD welcome the idea of a program that funds itslef voluntarily
since youre post was well thought, simply uninformed I actually expect you to change your mind if you are still around to read this post
we’ll see thoughy
here’s an VERY interesting point;
for those who think illegal aliens are somehow not entitled to health care, the public option will be an excellant program that will aleviate public funding of that health care now provided at middle class expense through emergency room service
and that is the answer the progressives need to give when approached by those who use undocumented laborers as a reason to not provide this function
The first refers to Gov. Sanford.
The third refers to the SC Secretary of Education, who recently was found
moonlighting writing, ahh, “romantic fiction” [can’t find link at the moment].
The fourth refers to Rep. Wilson.
And the second, which of course I cannot document but is widely believed,
refers to John McCain’s fourth wife (after Carol Shepp, Cindy Hensley and Joe Lieberman).
A bright light in an otherwise dark, hateful hole. I am so tired of the name calling and juvenile behaviour on both sides. As far as I’m concerned, lock ‘em all in a room and see who comes alive. Those of us “in the middle” will be the ones to make informed choices. The others can only continue with the juvenile antics. THANK YOU!!!
Wilson is technincally correct since Obama intends on making all illegal aliens legal in 2010. So this makes what Obama said a lie…or at least a fib.
I agree 1000%. Frank is right in saying that freedom of speech should prevail especially if exercising that freedom shows what a complete tool the speaker is.
Let’s not allow this goober’s outburst to distract from our goal. There will be enough attention given to him by FOX and its zombies.
Thinking of that old saying … stay silent and be thought a fool, speak out and remove all doubt.
This will be the irresistible soundbite for cable TV.
Another site (can’t recall) had a comment that Wilson was a Colonel in the Army Reserve and …. well, that was his Commander that he was calling a liar.
The provisions in the bill doesn’t address the fact that illegals will be covered, what it does say is that emergency rooms can’t deny care for anyone and you can’t ask for information proving that they are here legally.So you tell me where is the cost savings?
Hey, you libs use all the same talking points..47 million now Obama says it is 30 million..I’m going to laugh wheh this bill doesn’t provide the public option you free loaders want. If you want real reform why not allow people to purchase health care across state lines? Instead you insist on the public option or single payer..that shit isn’t going to fly with the american people. Also, I was laughing when he says he will pay for the reform by cutting fraud waste and abuse…If that is true, why don’t they do that right now???
How does Obama say the public option will not have any Gov’t money involved? Even a 5th grader understands if you can’t afford health care right now how can you afford it under a gov’t plan?
one rethug meme seems to be that the Wilson outburst was actually the president’s fault – that he intentionally goaded republicans into responding, choosing his words in such a way as to bet that he could provoke a response from one Republican or another. Unbelievable.
Stritz44, if you can cut Jesus some slack for slightly delaying his return, then apply some of that same patience to your government weeding out Republican fraud.
Well, as someone who just retired from the Army and helped defend this country for the last 20 yrs i don’t have a problem with Tricare coverage my slrf and family receive, and as far as people showing up to emergency I’m all for helping them out..I was pointing out the simple fact that I disagree in how Rep Wilson called the President a liar but it is simply not true in what Obama said last night…How do you reduce cost if you are going to allow the samething to continue with regards to illegals using emergency rooms?
Darn! I was hoping that regulars here had figured out that trolls crave attention, especially from regulars. They’re here to get a platform, and calling them out gives them what they want. When they’re ignored, when they can’t get a rise off of anyone, they go away a lot sooner. Please practice not feeding the trolls, or they may multiply.
Hey Ann, thanks for the platform for responding to my issues…Like I said, there will be no public option..Tell me..how do you pay for the buy reducing 500 billion in fraud waste and abuse? If so why don’t they do that today?
I’m sure Joe Wilsons office can handle the 3 calls they will recive from the progressives…
I’ll bite, I don’t mind disabusing anyone from the propaganda they’ve been fed, and while you can’t convince most trolls these answers are for those who understand the differance between propaganda and talking points;
the waste in public provided service is ALWAYS dwarfed by the profit model, the public option will be far less expensive even if yuo considered waste as a factor.
for instance, blackwater costs about ten times more then the armed forces and obviously other examples abound
the publi option is opt in for whatever the cost determines, it is cost neutral, if it doesn’t compete with private care then you don’t opt in
simple stuff but not for teh simple minded
The tragedy is, the President DID lie about illegal immigrants…they ARE covered by default because the enforcement mechanisms have been disabled. If they are here they get care. So Wilson really was right…
If an illegal immigrant somehow obtains insurance through private insurers, then they would certainly benefit from some of Obama’s plans. How they would do this speaks more to the craven interests of Insurance Companies for selling these policies, not the plans that would place restrictions on the insurers. Perhaps the policies are transnational, where coverage or claims can be remitted across borders (travellers health insurance plans do this…and are used by US citizens when THEY travel overseas).
Explain to me how the public option will be cost neutral, when you say the people that will enroll can’t afford health care now?
I was in Britain a few years ago when I came down with malaria symptoms…went to a hospital and was in front of a specialist in tropical medicine within two hours.
, I was billed for the services (which were not expensive, given that I went through the emergency room…but was rapidly triaged elsewhere). Having been through emergency rooms here in the US (one time bounced from one Blue Cross hospital for having the wrong coverage during a REaL emergency) …the charges were stunningly low.
My visits to ER’s in the US…I was also billed. Why wouldn’t illegal immigrants be billed?
ctually you are only part wrong here. Those on the “public option” will be excluded. But I can easily see that those in the National Co-Op and in Business subsidized plans INSISTING on having reproductive options like abortions funded. Looked at realistically, in terms of costs of the plans, those with an abortion/birth control option would be far cheaper than those without it…
Partuition Services are far more costly than Contraception/Neonatal costs. Plus you’d be excluding a huge pool of young, healthy women that want that service. Having that service in a plan vs. one that didn’t would pre-select women that would cost far less, and use fewer services…not only in the reproductive area – but overall. Even if I were a male, and had to opt between a plan tht included vs. didn’t include abortion, I’d select the one WITH. The applicants wouldn’t have lots of hospitalizations or pre-post natal visits, and given attitudes about the issue, would likely be non-elderly…and more cogent about scientific issues (i.e. better educated). Thus the costs could be far less.
They can’t afford individualized plans…because the insurers can gouge an individual. But they will offer discounts to a group. Groups (such as businesses, or government employees) have been able to negotiate significant cost reductions by the sheer volume of customers that they offer. Imagine two T-shirt vendors. One is approached by an individual for a discount. “No way buddy”. The other is approached by a “League”…thousands of T-shirts. They say “We’ve shopped around…and here’s what your competitor is offering.”
Suddenly there are bulk discounts, higher cotton fibre content, free silkscreening -front and back, and free delivery.
sure, have a look here, that answers all your questions
the people who enrolled will pay the cost of the program, those who opt out will actually pay less for their health care because private insurers will have to compete against the far more efficient model of a public plan, that’s why they’re spenindg billions to prevent a public option, they don’t want to compete against a more efficient model based on performance rather then profity
and those who do not have insurance now go to emergency rooms for free and cost exponentially more then any public plan would, therefore easily saving you even more money
let’s make an anaology;
do you have any idea how much it would cost to take a shower if the water works weren’t public?…I’ll give you a clue, you’d have to shower in the squaler of strangers because you couldn’t afford it