Is it really our job or our mission in life to change the behavior pattern and belief system of the Afghan leadership class and people?
What are we doing in Afghanistan? According to Rahm Emmanuel, we have committed ourselves to a “process that can provide the security and the type of services that the Afghan people need[.]” For Rahm, then, our job over there is to build a nation. Arlen Specter has already said the right thing about that:
While I think it is laudable to want to protect the Afghan people and to provide good governance there, it is my view that is not of sufficient national interest for the United States to put our troops at risk or to expend substantial additional sums there. The principal question, as I see it, is whether Afghanistan is indispensable to be secured to prevent al-Qaida from launching another attack against the United States.
And I think President Obama wants us to think he agrees with Specter, and so (whatever Rahm says) Obama’s official rationale for the Afghanistan occupation and Af-Pak war is to “disrupt, dismantle, and eventually defeat al Qaeda, its allies, and its safe havens in Pakistan, and to prevent their return to Pakistan or Afghanistan.” Two weeks ago Secretary of State Clinton repeated the phrase as our reason for fighting there, that the goal “is to disrupt, dismantle, defeat Al Qaeda and its extremist allies” (she added that not every Taliban may be an extremist ally). And in his most recent comments on the war and occupation, Obama has “omitted mention of the Taliban and Afghan nation-building.”
But does the second rationale, the official one, pass the laugh test, when there are fewer than a 100 Al Qaeda in Afghanistan? Let’s ask Senator Byrd:
I am compelled to ask,” he said, “does it really take 100,000 (U.S.) troops to find Osama bin Laden? If Al Qaeda has moved to Pakistan, will these troops in Afghanistan add what to the effort to defeat Al Qaeda?”
He added angrily: “And how much will this cost? How much in terms of more dollars? How much in terms of American blood?”
He criticized, not Obama, but generals Petraeus and McChrystal, who Byrd said had bought into the “mission creep” of Afghan nation-building. “These generals,” Byrd said, “have lost sight of America’s primary strategic objective to disrupt and defang — in other words, pull the teeth right out of the bone — of Al Qaeda.”
Let’s talk, as the recent winner of Celebrity Apprentice likes to say. ‘We all know’ (don’t we? including Obama?) that we are in Afghanistan either to build a nation Americans would like to cuddle up with (does that pass the smell test?) or for some other U.S.-centric reason (‘Great Game’ energy politics?).
And then there’s the war itself, that tragicomedy. And our soldiers, professional killers miscast and miscostumed, according to William Wong:
Some of the most riveting scenes for me from the Frontline documentary ((“Obama’s War“)) were ones of a young U.S. Marine talking with Afghan villagers. He had an interpreter whose grasp of English was minimal, and there was undoubtedly a lot lost in translation, and some visible anger and frustration on the part of the Marine.
That was part of the “counter-insurgency” strategy our troops are trying to implement right now. This translates into Marines and other soldiers trying to get to know ordinary Afghan villagers. Sounds like a version of the much derided Vietnam War strategy of trying to win the “hearts and minds” of ordinary Vietnamese.
The theory apparently is that our soldiers could somehow lessen their military/fighting personas — what they are trained to do — and transform themselves to kinder, gentler visitors to protect ordinary Afghans. Something like that.
How absurd. Some of the experts quoted in the Frontline documentary, including Gen. Stanley McChrystal, the commander of our military in Afghanistan, strained to explain the rationale behind this “counter-insurgency” strategy. Their explanations fell short of their mark.
Let’s get real here. Why should Afghan villagers listen to U.S. Marines and other soldiers, loaded to the hilt with body armor, assault rifles, and other items that can kill?
The language and cultural divide is so gaping as to be laughable. Our men and women in full fighting uniforms aren’t Peace Corps volunteers, humanitarian workers, or cultural anthropologists. They’re trained to kill the enemy.
How many of our warriors know or even care about Afghan history, culture, and religion, let alone know the languages of the people there?
From what I’ve read of the Taliban, they are at least Afghans, not young American interlopers armed to the teeth. The Taliban believe in far different values than we Americans do, and some of them treat other Afghans, especially women, with contempt and utter disrespect.
But is it really our job or our mission in life to change the behavior pattern and belief system of the Afghan leadership class and people?



11 Comments







You don’t have to fight an insurgency unless you are there. You don’t need a credible Government to work with if you aren’t there. Our troops wouldn’t be dying if we weren’t there. It wouldn’t be costing us untold billions if we weren’t there. We wouldn’t be wasting our Governments time and money deciding what to do if we weren’t there. We wouldn’t be letting Generals pad their future resume at our expense if we weren’t there.
Al Qeada isn’t there, the Taliban wasn’t there after we threw them out, Why are we still there? Because we have ignorant politicains, military Generals, and a government filled with people who haven’t a clue to right and wrong. They think, and that is our problem is we let them think, and tell us what they think, and do what they think is best.
Their thinking has not only got us into all this, but will continue to cost us well into the future.
It devolves down to American young men, not giving a fuck, on heavily armed patrols through incredibly impoverished places where they can’t and don’t want to communicate or be communicated with.
That’s true, but we need to relize that they are not there doing that to protect us, even if they believe that.
They aren’t even their to get al Qeada.
They are there for political wants and wishes, and military wants and wishes, which are not what our military was to be used for. Certainly not what our guys should be dying for.
They’re doing it to pay off student loans, or in exchange for not going to school on 100K or whatever in student loans, or to have a better-than-average job in a hopeless economy.
““A lot of people in the Pentagon would like to see him get into trouble,” he said. By leaking information that the commanding officer in Afghanistan, Gen. Stanley McChrystal, says the war would be lost without an additional 40,000 American troops, top brass have put Obama in a no-win situation, Hersh contended.
“If he gives them the extra troops they’re asking for, he loses politically,” Hersh said. “And if he doesn’t give them the troops, he also loses politically.”
The journalist criticized the president for “letting the military do that,” and suggested the only way out was for Obama to stand up to them.
“He’s either going to let the Pentagon run him or he has to run the Pentagon,” Hersh said. If he doesn’t, “this stuff is going to be the ruin of his presidency.” ”
http://www.heraldsun.com/pages/full_story/push?article-Hersh-+Military+waging+war+with+White+House%20&id=3974209-Hersh-+Military+waging+war+with+White+House&instance=homethirdleft
Am I having a Viet Nam Flashback ?
If you dont know History , you are condemned….etc…..
All those old Fogies who cant get over losing Korea, Viet Nam, South America, Somalia, and all. They are such perfect Losers.
What is it going to take this time for those sick Warmongering Profiteers to lose again ? A revolution here ? Bring the war home.
As long as there is any hope, no one will risk their own miserable pitiful ill earned well being..rather to kill exotic people far away.
These Politicians and War Mongers need to be thrown out. Forget nit picking…he said …they did..as if any of it was anything that was sane enough to argue about.
Oh, for the good old days when Russia kept the U.S. in check. Now America can just do as it pleases and its UGLY. I am ashamed.
Karzai is cutting deals with anti American militants..AP
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091019/ap_on_re_as/as_pakistan
That’s about Pakistan’s deal with ‘pro-Pashtun’ militias. I don’t know the specifics, but the region needs more deal-making and less warring. Deal-making is how Pakistan and the people’s on its Northwest border have always (more or less) peacefully resolved sticky, seemingly intractable matters, but that was before the U.S. demanded that Pakistan make war not deals.
Pakistan showed they can make deals without the US’s permission with this move. Can you imagine the horror in Washington when this deal was reached? When the Taliban wanted more money, the US quit negotiating and started a ‘war’. I don’t doubt that this is the real reason for the push against Iran this year.
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“The earth has been shaking for a few days now all across Pipelineistan – with massive repercussions for all the big players in the New Great Game in Eurasia. United States President Barack Obama’s AfPak strategists didn’t even see it coming.
A silent, reptilian war had been going on for years between the US-favored Turkmenistan-Afghanistan-Pakistan-India (TAPI) pipeline and its rival, the Iran-Pakistan-India (IPI) pipeline, also known as the “peace pipeline”. This past weekend, a winner emerged. And it’s none of the above: instead, it’s the 2,100-kilometer, US$7.5 billion IP (the Iran-Pakistan pipeline), with no India attached.
This whole saga started way back in 1995 – about the time California-based Unocal started floating the idea of building a pipeline crossing Afghanistan. Now, Iran and Pakistan finally signed a deal this week in Tehran, by which Iran will sell gas from its mega South Pars fields to Pakistan for the next 25 years.
With Gwadar directly linked to Iran and developed virtually as a Chinese warehouse, the Pentagon also loses the mouth-watering opportunity of a long land route across Balochistan into Helmand, Nimruz, Kandahar or, better yet, all of these three provinces in southwest Afghanistan, where soon, not by accident, there will be another US mega-base in the “desert of death”. From a Pentagon/NATO perspective, after the “loss” of the Khyber Pass, that would be the ideal supply route for Western troops in the perennial, now rebranded, GWOT (“global war on terror”). ”
http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/KE29Df02.html
Petraeus arrived in Islamabad on Sunday.I wonder what ‘new policies” means?
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“Petraeus will discuss bilateral ties, with special focus on war against terror, Swat situation, SWA Operation and the latest overall situation in Pakistan, to take the political and military leadership into confidence on new policies of the US administration. ”
http://www.nation.com.pk/pakistan-news-newspaper-daily-english-online/Politics/19-Oct-2009/Petraeus-arrives-in-Islamabad
We might as well be playing with Lincoln logs, and kung fu fighting.
Afghanistan is like the asshole of the world, and no matter how much you wipe it, or wash it, it is still the brown hole that it is.
All the purfume you put on it, will only last till the next log comes rolling down the hill.
Were trying to turn a pile of shit into gumdrops, and I doubt that will work, and I don’t want any if it does.