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Does Occupy even know that Israel exists, and that the U.S. is its leading supporter/funder? Not from looking at Facebook’s two main Occupy pages (here and here). Just saying, but Occupy seems not to have noticed that our leading Middle East ally is murdering Gaza children in our name.
Oh well, maybe this is just another indicator of the intractable problems an intentionally voiceless and wordless organization will have. Of course there never was a debate of any kind, hot-blooded or reasoned, within Occupy about what stance the organization should take on the U.S government’s slavish and lavish support for Israel no matter what it does, because no one has ever established what and where Occupy is or how or if it makes decisions.
But the photos of dead babies are real and IT WOULD NOT BE HAPPENING BUT FOR U.S. SUPPORT. I.e., as an American movement, you, Occupy, do not have a convenient way out: if you’re not against it then you are for it. But, yeah, okay …
“Never mind, go away, we’re trying to be an inoffensive Occupy!”
Okay, sorry, wouldn’t be prudent. But then …
If not now, when?
54 Comments
Occupy also has not taken a stand on biofuels.
N.b. Occupy is about Wall Street defrauding workers of their savings.
Occupy is a movement, not an organization, so it’s not clear what you mean by their main facebook pages, or what “they” should be doing right now about Gaza.
You’d need to check websites, facebook pages, live streams, and twitter feeds of many Occupy groups, as well as what people involved in Occupy groups are doing as individuals, in solidarity with other activists in their area.
For further information and links, you can link here from occupywallstreet.net homepage:
It is called picking and choosing your battles. Like a business plan, focus is key.
But for this American the nexus between GS et. als. and corporate’s orchestrated financial scum buggery and raping of America, ripples through the entire world like tsunami. So in many ways going back in America’s history, Wall Street is the cause and therefore the appropriate and correct target. Jefferson is correct in his fear of corporate power, financial institution fucking the republic. We are living it. Like “slavery,” Congress protected “servitude” and monopolies enjoyed by a minority, under the color of law.
I don’t get where you find this restrictive notion of what Occupy is about. According to those two facebook pages, Occupy is much more wide-ranging than you state, and solidarizes with movements across the world, including movements for free speech and against the surveillance state.
Yes, of course, and as my diary prominently points out, that excuse is always irresponsibly at the ready. “Who, us? We’re not them, we’re over here.” The two main Occupy Facebook pages, one with 400,000 likes and the other with 170,000, are not the ‘real’ Occupy …
Occupy is an attempt to replicate “online activism AKA blogging” in real life.
As such, it is an unqualified success.
Ironically, as a real life political movement Occupy replicates “blogging” all too well..it has become the political movement that doesn’t actually move.
All the highly self congratulatory baloney about how Occupy replaced FEMA as the leading responder to Hurricane Sandy notwithstanding.
However, that said, your premise as usual is faulty. Your lack of logical coherence is once again on full display. Your tax dollars support Isrel and you are every bit as complicit in the killing of Palestinian children.
This time others will see through you because you aren’t preaching to the choir of the echo chamber. You are at least consistent in the spreading illogical nonsense. It is the echo chamber that praises you and then disses you not according to the quality of your thought process but according to their own biases that is inconsistent.
For that reason I have recommended this dairy
Tired. The only thing I’m complicit in is the democratic process, where I win some and I lose some. I.e., we live in a sort of democracy and we pay our taxes; for all of us, some of our taxes go to things we don’t like and some goes to stuff we do like. That doesn’t mean we are ‘complicit’ — as in ‘aiding and abetting’ or responsible — in the existence of the bad things, especially if we voted for people who opposed those things. I’m proud to accept and strongly support the rule of democratic law and the democratic process here in the U.S. and to oppose U.S. funding of Israel’s emerging apartheid state.
As Edward Teller’s excellent diary points out, many in power in Israel are advocating genocidal war against Gaza or stating that that is the war’s actual purpose:
What will it take, Occupy?
Ruth, thanks for finally defining what Occupy is about. I have been so confused as to what Occupy’s goal is. The people involved with the movement go to painstaking limits to make sure everyone knows that they are undefinable. I don’t think I have to go find video of interviews with Occupiers, when they actually occupied something, to show this, but I will if asked.
Maybe OWS should stop occupying hurricanes, the SEC, Congress, the pipeline and all of the other things that they don’t actually occupy and go back to Occupying Wall Street.
I am sorry to have to inform those who still cling to the idea of OWS that OWS is completely irrelevant to most of the country outside the liberal blogosphere. The things that make OWS beautiful & organic, like horizontal democracy and previously, Occupy’s in many different cities, is what made it easy to smash and relegate to the political margins nationally.
Imagine what would have happened to the civil rights movement had it disbanded into little local pockets of people talking about change from the comfort of their living rooms. Every time the authorities cracked down on them, they came back stronger. Occupy took the same kind of hit and went home, never to mass organize again.
Occupy is doing a lot of good things, but changing the landscape of massive inequality isn’t one of them. Zero mention of income inequality in the debates, or the campaigns, and 100 million people turning out to vote for which brand of austerity they will accept is the opposite of what OWS is supposedly working for. Instead of moving towards equality, we have QE3.
It is time for supporters of OWS to stop dumping intellectual, and financial resources into an organization that has no ability to effect change and start working on new ways to get the results we hoped Occupy would bring.
Recommended.
Socialists are internationalists, supporting working people and our struggles for national independence worldwide. Anyone who wants to be part of the left grasps intimate connections between the oppression of workers and the unemployed here and the fight of Palestinian working people. No one should fear taking on the zionists in spite of their popularity with the right wing and among the empire builders in the White House and Congress. You can’t be against capitalism and empire building in the US and ignore it elsewhere.
The question of supporting Palestinian independence and the right of return is fundamental to challenging the US empire builders who currently engaged in mass murder in Afghanistan, Pakistan, Libya, Bahrain and who committed genocide in Iraq and plan to do so in Iran.
The zionist bunkerstadt is a US backed colony in Palestine that consistently uses ethnic cleansing and mass murder as weapons to steal land and has been since 1948. (1) It’s the base of last resort for US empire builders in the region should the Arab Spring be victorious. That’s why the US has invested so much in protecting it (2) and giving it the weapons to expand at the expense of its neighbors.
Anyone who holds back from taking on the racism and ethnic cleansing of the zionists is not an internationalist and not serious about global challenges to US colonialism. Palestinian workers need our support and zionist workers are endangered by the very bunkerstadt that pretends to act in their interest. The zionist bunkerstadt doesn’t have a shred of legitimacy, it was founded by people who learned all the wrong lessons from the Nazis and who abandoned European Jews to the tender mercies of Hitler in order to invade Palestine. (3)
Supporting Palestinian workers and their struggle for national independence does not entail abandoning and sacrificing workers in North America. Quite the opposite. It enhances and clarifies the general fight for workers and gives no ground to the empire builder who are our enemies as well as the enemies of working people everywhere.
(1) http://www.counterpunch.org/2004/05/13/the-deir-yassin-massacre/
(2) “The main expression of Congressional support for Israel has been foreign aid. Since 1985, it has provided nearly $3 billion in grants annually to Israel, with Israel being the largest annual recipient of American aid from 1976 to 2004 and the largest cumulative recipient of aid since World War II. … Almost all U.S. aid to Israel is now in the form of military assistance…”
(3) Lenni Brenner: Zionism in the Age of the Dictators “is presented online for personal use only. No portions of this book may be reprinted, reposted or published without written permission from the author.”
Sorry, this should have been with (3) http://www.marxistsfr.org/history/etol/document/mideast/agedict/index.htm
“Paying for” is by textbook definition “aiding and abetting.”
Unless, that is you don’t believe Israel is committing war crimes in Palestine?
You can deny but you can’t hide at all from your own complicity. None of us can. You say you are practicing democracy.
Now you aren’t. You are practicing “trollacy”. I give you props for that much. Too bad its such poor troll work.
Ridiculous claims like this one, castigating Occupy for not being what it doesn’t claim to be, an anti-zionist movement, or the one you repeat every Veteran’s day that “most” (last year it was “all”) Iraqi/Afghani War US Vets are war criminals need to be called out consistently.
You might work to mitigate your complicity in US war crimes through activism against the funding of Israel’s war against Palestine.
You might not pay your taxes. Then your statements would have some moral force behind them rather than the force of hypocritical self-righteousness which simply makes you, and by extension all progressives who tend to agree with you, look venal and stupid.
As well as ineffective.
So you think persuasion and voting for what I believe in, but also respecting the democratic choices of the majority of citizens citizens are ineffective. I can see your point.
But deciding not to pay taxes would be effective? That sounds like nonsense. Anyway, you’ve made your argument. Thanks for coming by and jacking up the comment count.
Thank you. Fear of powerful lobbies can get liberals to not do almost anything. And I fear that, ultimately, some of those in the amorphous commanding heights of ‘Occupy’ always have been same old same old liberals. Can’t think out of the box that has left liberalism dead if not neoliberal.
So, do you pay US income taxes too, Bill, like your fellow “Comrade” Fairleft?
Fairleft isn’t a socialist by the way. He is a keynesian who believes in an idealistic kinder and gentler brand of reformed capitalism.
And this is pretty funny, considering Obama’s Presidency helped inspire the Arab Spring and his regime’s diplomacy in Egypt and Syria have helped foment and legitimise it.
Ever heard of “Turkey?” Haha, not to mention all the rest of the military bases that the US maintains all over the middle East.
But nice speech, bill. Especially the footnotes.
Also added a recommend, if you are scoring at home. You’re more than welcome. PFF blood is still thicker than water.
Yes, based on your track record of voting your conscience at least the 8 years since I’ve known you, extremely ineffective.
Your track record speaks for itself.
No, OWS cannot be everything to everyone. But you don’t seem to know about Occupy AIPAC, and blow by the fact that Facebook may not reflect OWS altogether. Many want nothing to do with a social networking site that’s proven to be so insecure.
InterOccupy has lists of actions protesting the bombing of Gaza.
Your criticism is ironic given that in the first months at OWS NYC, the movement was decried as anit-Semitic at full volume, and many videos to that point were produced (some call the movement ‘hasbara’.
Yes, some of the rhetoric of a few went: Wall Street = Bankers = Bilderberg (or other global banking organizations) + Rothchilds = Jews, the Fed…but of course, it was the mega-wealth gleaned by Wall Street (including multinationals) and downward pressure on wages and benefits and the increase of unscrupulous lenders and loan servicers coupled with the fact that our votes don’t mean anything much any longer…that drove the initial movement.
Plus critics of OWS forget that they are also Occupiers, or should be.
OK, good point. But then, using this logic, and I agree that you are being logical in comment 7, unlike in the body of your diary, why should Occupy be castigated for not fighting the battles you want them to fight? Here you say:
This is like saying that because I belonged to the anti-Vietnam War Movement I was against the Civil Rights movement.
Makes no sense, dude. None. Illogical.
Or if what you say holds true for Occupy (and US Soldiers as generic “war criminals inyour last diary)” it holds true for Fairleft,and Bill Perdue as well.
“There is no convenient way out.”
Only hypocrites and Republicans get to have it both ways, dude.
Which one are you?
I seem to remember, fairleft, you also criticized Jill Stein for not directly addressing the expansion of Social Security. Is that what you do in general? Find an issue and then castigate a worthy endeavor because it doesn’t mention it? [Sorry to have jacked up your count - last time for that.]
http://www.occupyaipac.org/ nuff said
http://www.facebook.com/OccupyIsrael
I linked to it, too, John Washington. ;o)
Israel’s monstrous acts should be the focus of every liberal group and website. There is nothing more important than reporting on and documenting the horrendous acts being carried out by Israel with the complicity and outright encouragement of newly-elected President Lesser Evil.
BBC correspondent Paul Danahar:
“There is screaming and crying and chaos. A nurse has broken down and is crying in the corner. Her colleagues are trying to comfort her. Awful scenes here,” he wrote.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/overwhelmed-palestinian-doctors-run-out-of-lifesaving-medicines-8327307.html
But, wait. Republican Lindsey Graham said something on a Sunday morning talk show that merits derogatory comments. That is surely more newsworthy first thing in the morning than the grief and despair inflicted on innocent civilians done with the blessing of Democrat Barack “Lesser Evil” Obama.
Thanks for bringing some sense to this thread, Wendy.
LOL! I know how you play at hating that! (As in: ‘Stop making sense, wd! or person X).
Hope you all will have a good Thanksgiving; most of us have so much to be grateful for; I know I do.)
fairleft,
SARCASM
terrific job of using OCCUPY to insulate the oil oligopoly, AIPAC, President Obama and both parties from the consequences of their actions.
/saracasm.
Thanks to Wendy, John Washington for the links to OCCUPYAIPAC.
“So, do you pay US income taxes too, Bill, like your fellow “Comrade” Fairleft? “ I pay taxes so I won’t go to jail. Do you pay taxes because you support Obama and his racist wars of aggression or because you support Obama in his role as Scab in Chief?
“Fairleft isn’t a socialist by the way. He is a keynesian who believes in an idealistic kinder and gentler brand of reformed capitalism.” I don’t care what his other politics are, he opposes the zionist murderers and I commend him for that.
“And this is pretty funny, considering Obama’s Presidency helped inspire the Arab Spring and his regime’s diplomacy in Egypt and Syria have helped foment and legitimise it.” Stop lying. Gay/antiwar hero accused wiki leaker Brad Manning and Julian Assange inspired the upsurges in Tunisia, Egyat and elsewhere. That’s why racist warmongers like Obama and Hillary Clinton, in their rage, had Manning tortured.
Obama is a racist who conducts continuous attacks on Arab-muslim societies, who continues to give aid to the neo-colonialist Egyptian military and who aids and abets zionist mass murder in Palestine. Did you vote for Obama?
“Ever heard of “Turkey?” Haha, not to mention all the rest of the military bases that the US maintains all over the middle East.” There are several new bases US bases in the region, but the zionist bunkerstadt remains the central base and the unlike Turkey it is totally dependent on the US for survival, siphoning off billions every year, money that should go to the unemployed or for socialized medicine.
Yes. Worthy can always be more worthy. You may thumb your nose at
Facebook, but close to 600,000 likes means that a meaningful number of individuals receive those pages’ updates on their home pages. A chance to persuade 600,000 not taken.
Obama’s planned cuts in Social Security are not a minor matter, and my advice for Stein was just smart populist advice. If taken it might have boosted her anemic 0.4% of the popular vote (less than 600,000, I think fwiw) somewhat north of that. I honestly am not sure how worthy a 0.4% showing actually is. Didn’t do anything except depress most real leftists as far as I can tell.
Occupy, at least at Facebook, finds time to comment on a large array of issues, mostly U.S. but also international. But not Israel’s murder of Gaza civilians with our money, weapons, and Obama’s slavish approval.
Is there anyone in particular I’m calling out? Yes: whoever is running those two Facebook sites.
Guess what, we have another problem besides our enemies. Us.
Bill, I apologize for the ‘tale, who seems to tag along to all my diaries and do his “you a hypocrite cuz you pay taxes” spiel. His intent, I think, is to deflect as many as he can ensnare away from the diary topic.
This is what irritates me: those two pages at Facebook can put on nearly 600,000 “likers’” pages strong anti-war messages blasting Israel’s Gaza aggression and war crimes, which we the USA pay for and could stop overnight if we said to Israel: ‘Stop’.
The left has many tiny and very tiny megaphones and only a few not so small ones. The Facebook Occupy pages, if their ‘owners’ are really leftists, are wasting an important and life-saving opportunity.
Thank you, Wendy.
No problem, I’ve had plenty of Dimorat donkey’s wanting to chew my ass too. This one was easy becasue he lied so badly.
Back in the beginning of OWS as an organizations sprang to life across the country, organizational meetings were held.
In Pittsburgh, the first order of business was to adopt Gandhi’s ten principles of non violence.
http://www.sydneyalternativemedia.com/id73.html
This passed unanimously. We did this of course, so we could futuristicly point out the police state that supports the 1%. That worked well and induced an all out panic in the 1%.
The mission for OWS was to point out what the 1%, TPTB were doing to the 99% and to speak out about the evil they prevail on our world.
The good things that have come from QWS just the fruit from the tree.
“Occupy Ignores Israel” Heh, OWS is an organization for peace, progress, and fairness toward every one. OWS is not a deity
It’s not well-constructed or well-thought out.
If you want to change stuff, you have to be able to think strategically and tactically. Until South Carolina overplayed their hand, fired on Ft. Sumter, the abolitionist movement made zero progress against King Cotton, the dominant oligopoly of its day, and slavery. We’re facing many similar challenges today and “friendly fire” against a group as noble as OCCUPY was unwarranted and counterproductive.
I recommend you delete the diary.
We forgot to thank the Guardian and….
A tip of the tinfoil hat…to…
Goddam, I’ve been trying to keep away from that, leftown. You must know that I almost always subscribe to your comments and conscience.
But this is a bridge too far for me. Such hyperbole is usually troubling, but in this case, I have to address it, even if rather stream-of-consciously.
You rail about ‘liberal sites’, etc., so you may be able to deflect my thoughts easily…
To what end or good end would it be for every diary to be about what is happening to Palestinians? Are the many, many global protests changing things? Or are they just a necessary expression of solidarity and outrage at the US/Israel Greater War Machine?
Which of the many *other* radical concerns for: ecocide, sociocide, and genocide would go begging for highlighting and action in the meantime? Could the most conscientious of Planetary Fair Witnesses ever deign to *try* to place concerns or Most Critically Important emergencies in any fucking numerical order? I can’t begin to imagine it.
When some tipping point percentage of us, both globally and domestically, realize how interwoven all these themes are, with war and killer oppression and domination at their core…we will begin to be able to fight back more effectively. If we take our eyes off the prize of reinstating our democracy here, and *truly* encouraging it globally, it will mean that we have one chance in a thousand to right the wrongs going on toward humans that have been deemed ‘expendable’ by the PTB and to the planet whose very survival is uppermost in others’ minds.
Are the starving and murdered legions of people in Diaspora all over the world, or the killing of the planet by fracking and tarsands pipelines and their global equivalents…or the iconic symbol of whistle-blowing the evil deeds of the PTB Bradley Manning; or OBomba pivoting toward the Pacific or Africa (via AFRICOM) important to at least similar degrees, given the fact that we all have our areas of expertise and concern?
Would you sincerely rather have every website and every diary focus on Gaza? And believe me, I in no way mean to minimize the critical importance of what’s happened, and what may happen soon.
~ Fractured Wm. Shakespeare
Welcome, PW. ;o)
Yah, that perdue is something else, isn’t he, Windy?
[:o)
Bingo!
Good on ya, wendydavis!
Diarists can choose to write what they want. However, frankly, yes, for now–while the massacre is going on–I think it should be the main focus of websites. Every other story should be about the Israeli murderers and the Obama complicity and everything else connected to this atrocity. If it is the focus, maybe, just maybe, politicians will read the responses and know they aren’t fooling anyone. Maybe it will do some good. It can’t hurt. It’s my opinion, and I know I don’t have any say-so, but I think if ever there is a time to be a voice for peace, this is it.
Thanks for asking for my thoughts. Peace to you.
Occupy Milwaukee statement of solidarity
https://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=349281885167095
Occupy Chicago
TONIGHT: Come out and protest Israel’s ongoing attacks on in Gaza, killing and injuring Palestinian civilians (including many children) and destroying infrastructure, homes, and livelihoods.
https://www.facebook.com/OccupyChicago
Occupy Oakland
http://occupyoakland.org/ai1ec_event/all-out-for-gaza-mon-19th-430-israeli-consulate/?instance_id=243430
Occupy Wall Street
http://occupywallst.org/article/occupy-wall-street-not-palestine-ows-says-no-wa/
Occupy Tampa
http://www.wmnf.org/news_stories/tampa-activists-stand-with-palestinians-at-usf-temple-terrace-and-downtown
etc.
Just a note, I was having keyboard hiccups and seem to have inadvertently flagged your comment. I unflagged it, don’t know if this generates a notice, but if so, no flagging was intended.
We certainky cannot “Stop it overnight”. Remember that your Government enjoys that “We support Israel’s right to” (Enter your choice of fucked up activities here, anything from bulldozing a young lady to killing our Sailors on the USS Liberty.).
You can’t do everything at once. Pick and choose a cause or two and concentrate on them. This is what I once was told by a noted activist, Robin Rather. This is reiterated in “The Lifelong Activist”.
To state that anyone who doesn’t drop whatever they are doing to take on a new cause therefore supports the atrocities being committed is simply untrue. I condemn and deplore Israel, as I have for years, and have aired these complaints with my elected officials. I have railed for years about AIPAC, what do you suggest that we do to remove their stranglehold on our Government? I am sure you have developed a plan to accomplish this, or is it more pleasurable to castigate others for failing to act?
But then again, we have discussed your opinion of people like me-namely, veterans. Idealism is wonderful, isn’t it? I believe it only exceeded by the self-righteous feeling gained from ideological purity-the urge to chastise others for not being as morally upright as yourself.
I meant to append this, in honor of a man I was proud to call a friend:
No War But Class War!
Namaste
I appreciate that you read my considerations, lefttown. That you still believe so means you really meant it. It’s not clear to me which politicians you imagine might read here and be moved or more importantly *able* to stop the madness and the bombing. I know White House flaks are said to read at least the front page, but it hasn’t moved OBomba to give a fig, imo. He just got re-elected and has a mandate to do what he’s been doing the past four years.
I blog anti-war often, and am doing my Terror Tuesday baking a day early (because I must), to dishonor our Killer-in-Chief’s drone assassinations by affirming life a tiny bit by sending out food into the world. Small, but important to me.
Peace to you as well, my friend.
I’ve long held that we don’t make friends by bringing death from the skies. If we could merely drop food on them, we would have many more friends.
Fine sentiment, nonplussed. There does seem to be plenty of evidence that ‘we’ don’t want friends, at least among the nations home to swathes of brown people we’ve declared ‘militants’, thus enemies.
Dropping food from the sky has gone haywire innumerable times due to poor planning and thinking. But I’m old enough to remember (probably naively) crates of food stamped with CARE, and the Hospital ships (Hope?) that were sent in actual aid of people’s health.
Q: was it you who described you and your spouse’s need to join the military in order to support your extended families? I’ve mentioned that theme a couple times lately, and couldn’t remember who had described that too common situation here.
All my best to you. ;o)
Everyone is guilty of everything bad and everything good. #donkeyfaillogic
I take food to people on the street.
I can’t afford a plane.
And may god bless you, Demi! so many cities have made feeding the dispossessed anything at all. Dallas and LV among them, it reminds of AZ law where makes it illegal to give a thirsty person in the desert a drink of water…+
As far as results are concerned, Occupy has been a catastrophe, for exactly the reasons so many have pointed out: it took/takes no positions on anything other than its slogan, “we are the 99%.” The touchy but very important U.S.-supported Israel militarism issue is an example of a stand that needs to be taken by any group claiming to lead the 99%. What we’ve ended up with, despite or maybe partly as a result of Occupy, another four years of a President and Congress elected by Wall Street, the corporate media, and Big Oil, Big Military, and Big Medicine, who/which will rule for all of them, especially for Wall Street.
Occupy takes no positions because it has no structure, showing that anarchism and ‘participation by whoever is here’ is not the way to organize a serious movement for a massive political overhaul.
If we learn from the Occupy disaster and move on to an organizational structure with some actual debate (Robert’s Rules of Order, anyone?) and democratic decision-making, an ability for members ‘off-campus’ to participate and vote … But I don’t believe that will happen within Occupy. Anarchist forms, after all, are ‘cool’, and that’s what really matters.
Total disagreement.
For whatever its shortcomings, no way has Occupy been a catastrophe.
Occupy was the first progressive public movement since the 1960s-70s of any kind to actually move the national conversation left.
That it isn’t what you wish it to be is not an argument against its very real accomplishments.
Maybe not left enough for you, but where is your alternative? Not in the streets, that’s for damn sure.
If you are seeking a US leftist catastrophe look at the Progressive attempt at a Third Party which is what you really seek but. It failed bigtime. There is your catastrophe. Admit it and stop blaming others for what is in fact your own inadequacy as a non-movement.
Look at the so-called anti-war effort against Iraq and Afghanistan during the 00s. catastrophic failure.
The 2012 election was a huge win for progressives, but progressives don’t want to win.
So you call it a defeat and keep banging away on the same broken drum, irrelevantly.