Grim news from earlier this month shows that the official unemployment number is now 10.2% and that the far more accurate underemployment number is at 17.5%. Economist David Rosenberg (who correctly forecast the mortgage problem way back in 2004) sees unemployment numbers going to 12 or 13%. Moreover, a record 5.6 million people have been unemployed for over 6 months, notes Rosenberg, with more than 9 million Americans working part-time because no full-time jobs are available. In past recessions, says Rosenberg, the number of part-time workers has rarely got much above 6 million.
What’s the Obama administration’s plan for job creation? Not much as Nobel Prize winning economist Paul Krugman observes:
"We don’t really have a jobs policy, we have a G.D.P. policy. …we need to start doing something more than, and different from, what we’re already doing. And the experience of other countries suggests that it’s time for a policy that explicitly and directly targets job creation."
But Krugman, along with another winner of the Nobel Prize in Economics, Joe Stiglitz, correctly predicted that the Obama economic stimulus plan was too little, too late. Obama would rather listen to losers like Larry Summers who was dismissed from the Presidency of Harvard because he couldn’t run the largely self-running university. Or to Timothy Geithner, whom W. appointed to the New York Fed Presidency and who helped usher in this economic nightmare. In this sense, Obama is looking less and less like the president he admires so much (Lincoln) and more and more like Herbert Hoover. Obama’s even beginning to sound like Hoover.
A few days ago after the horrible unemployment figures came out for October, Obama announced his administration’s plan. He is going to call for a White House summit on unemployment. The summit will be held next month, the administration announced, as Obama himself was off to Japan. Now that’s really decisive leadership!
More than a year has elapsed since Obama was elected in a campaign that largely hinged on the greatest economic crisis the nation has faced since the 1930′s and other than a largely ineffective and inadequate stimulus plan, Obama has done virtually nothing to address the single most important issue that put him in office. Moreover, when describing the forthcoming White House summit, he used these words:
"We all know there are limits to what government can and should do even during such difficult times."
It’s true that he followed this up with some words about the need for job creation but this statement could have been written and delivered by Herbert Hoover. The plain truth is that Obama has been focused on the wrong model (Lincoln) while he should be looking at FDR. Instead, he’s coming off as Hoover to whom he bears lots of similarities. After all, both men were highly educated: Obama with a law degree from Harvard, Hoover with an engineering degree from Stanford. Both men share a cautious, timid approach to government. Both men failed to chose the best people available to be their advisors.
Obama has frequently said that he admires Ronald Reagan, a latter day disciple of Hooverism. But Hoover was a captive to the ideology of his party in the late 20′s and 30′s and was the first modern president to face a major economic downturn. Obama has no such excuses since his own party has plenty of voices for job creation, plenty of economic brainpower to provide the plans, and even the historical precedent of Hoover’s failed policies. But if you "look forward not backward" you miss a lot not only in the law but also in economics and history.
What will be interesting to see in the coming weeks is whether the Democratic Party begins to realize that its stranglehold on power could be swept away in a tidal wave of voter angst in 2010 unless the party comes up with a solution to the economic-unemployment problem. It’s clear that Obama is clueless about the economy and sees its problems largely from a Wall Street-banking industry perspective. Those are the two Obama sectors that received immediate and massive federal aid from Obama WITHOUT having the "need" for a summit. But they are not traditional constituencies of the Democratic Party and it is clear that organized labor’s patience with Obama is beginning to wear thin.
The base of the Democratic Party, especially those of progressives and liberals, must begin to demand changes in both Obama’s plans and his economic team. Getting rid of the ineffective duo of Summers and Geithner would be a great place to start. Putting into effect a massive jobs program (with public works at its heart) would be the logical second step.
If the Democratic Party faces voters in 2010 with unemployment over 10%, it is likely to lose the House, seats in the Senate, and many key governorships. Nor do they have much time to act since any changes will take time to kick in. So,the scheduling of a summit a month from now while the President dallies with photo ops with the Emperor and Empress of Japan looks especially foolish.
FDR understood something that Hoover and Obama do not: to attack a massive problem requires massive measures. If Obama and the Democrats fail to act quickly on this, the most serious problem facing the country, they will go the way of Hoover and they will deserve their rendevous with destiny.



117 Comments







No, he is the next Jimmy Carter unless he starts to defend himself from all the smears. And usually progressive bloggers don’t defend that he at one point didn’t want Administration officials intervened by Fox News smears.
RichardKanePA.blogspot.com
Not sure about the purpose of your post, RichardKane (especially “official intervened by…”) but Jimmy Carter was a one termer. I see the same for Obama as he continually pisses on his base.
FDR said the only thing we have to fear, is fear itself.
He was wrong.
The main thing we have to fear, is that we vote these people into office.
Even if we come to the consensus that Obama was a mistake.
How can we ever excuse oursaelves for the 535 mistakes we all made in the Congress.
When we finally come to the conclusion that our support of the two parties, and the people they have given us is the problem, we have a chance to save this Country.
Until then You get what You got.
Sorry, FDR was addressing a particular problem with his “the only thing we have to fear is fear itself” statement. He was absolutely correct.
Not all of the 535 people are mistakes. You have Dennis Kucinich, Tammy Baldwin, Bernie Sanders, Russ Feingold and lots of other good people.
You’re painting with a floor mop!
Wow a few out of 535, that makes me feel so much better.
You see even a couple dozen doesn’t make our government work.
Tell me one problem this Country has that the Congress has solved the problem and acted in the best interests of the Country.
The test is not that there are some good people, but what the collective actions of the body produces, and that is a Country and Government that is in such a hole it may never be dug out.
Sometimes to clean up the shit You have to mop the whole floor, not just spots.
Agree.
Thanks ART45. People wonder why we have all these problems, yet support all the people and systems that cause them.
Ah! It sometimes is mind boggling.
No one can argue with a claim that “we” should revamp the system from top to bottom and to lay the blame on some non-exsitent “we” that should act as one if only “we” would only apply ourselves.
The liberal base does not dictate what choices the entire electorate makes in who they elect. Its not just a matter of spurring ourselves on to make the right choices.
Whatever influence we exercise from the left should be applied as forcefully and tactfully as we can. Airing out issues is terribly helpful. As is attacking vulnerable people over which we have clout. But we sure as hell are not going to convince some redneck in South Carolina to lay down their Bible and focus their efforts on social federal programs. That just ain’t gonna happen by the next election cycle.
Patience and focus has already yielded some dividends and needs to continue and increased but some dose of realism is needed. Right now preventing Obama from making the economic situation worse by changing course including being rid of Summers and Geithner is sound advice and over these options we do have some say.
I second fflambeau’s comment–Barbara Lee & Sheila Jackson Lee & John Conyers & Henry Waxman & Alan Grayson were mistakes?
I’m going to use the cartoon on all future purity trolls:
http://www.xkcd.com/661/
And in answer to your next question, the U.S. Congress did pretty well bringing civil rights to African-Americans in 1964 (Civil Rights Act), 1965 (Voting Rights Act) and 1968 (Fair Housing Act). LBJ wasn’t too shabby there, either.
The things You spout there were correections for past mistakes that should have been corrected many years ago.
It took way to long for them to finally do what was not only right, but was guaranteed in the Constitution.
So I wouldn’t exactly class those things as really doing much.
For every good thing that one could consider, they create a dozen more prolems then they fix.
Why the hell is Obama flitting all over the world? He ought to be staying right here at home and turning it up to crisis mode. There’s nothing in Japan that’s as serious as the problems we have here.
Ditto re all the other stops on this stupid, wasteful “foreign visit.”
Japan is a pit-stop on a trip to the APEC forum; our economy is so heavily integrated with the entire Asian economy that he really needs to make some face time with them.
Japan’s been through what we’re going through now, as well; it took them far too long to straighten out their banking system, suffocating their turnaround. Perhaps comparing notes is in order…along with getting their alignment straight before both countries go to APEC.
Japan also provides a place to sit and think over the comments China’s President Hu offered up in advance of Obama’s impending visit.
Keep in mind that Russia’s Medvedev met with Hu in Singapore — you’re seeing two different alliances getting in sync before they arrive at the APEC forum, where one of the alliances will be working very hard to increase exports.
I agree with you and our diplomatic relations were in sad disarray after 8 years of Bush, but I do wish he wouldn’t travel quite so much. We have such massive problems here at home and it doesn’t look good for him to be doing the glad-handing overseas and solving nothing. He isn’t doing much when he is here but I assume that he can do more than one thing at a time. If he wants to be the goodwill amb he should turn the Oval job over to Biden IMO
Obama has no economic policy to defend in the run up to this APEC summit. Even if he did he has no sway over what China plans to do.
If China continues to keep its Yuan cheap with respect to the dollar in order to promote its exports and keep the value of its dollar debt holdings from devaluating, why should they accede to US demands to do so. Do you think if the situation were reversed the US would do so in order to help China at its own expense.
If he goes to a summit he should do so asking for investments in a US economic plan that focuses on our domestic production and reduced imports after he puts that plan into effect.
Beefing up jobs through government spending is the immediate need and breaking up the financial investment trusts is much more of a priority than attending a summit with little more than a peevish plea for consideration and help from our predicament.
It’s a time-honored tradition that prezes use foreign policy shiny objects to distract from problems at home. Nixon was a master at it.
Got to prop up the value of those US dollars, as his Federal government is busy printing so many new ones.
dithering on those domestic problems.
Getting rid of Geithner and Summers would indeed be a great first step. Though I don’t share the view that we’re likely to lose the House in 2010. Just given the fundamentals at play (retirings, base polling, etc…), seems pretty unlikely we’ll lose 40 or so seats.
Edited to add: And no, Obama isn’t a Hoover. :)
We probably will lose seats in Ohio, and unless jobs increase dramatically, don’t look for us to be a blue state on the electoral map in ’12.
Jason, Nate Silver, an election and pollster guru over at fivethirtyeight.com had a column about a recent Gallup Poll that shows Republicans with a 4 point lead on the House generic ballot. Silver writes:
“There’s no obvious flaw in the Gallup poll — the question wording is as standard as it gets, the sample size is decent (894 people), and Gallup is a classy and reliable pollster. Scenarios in which Democrats lose a large number of seats in the House are fairly likely, and scenarios in which they lose their majority are quite possible. …My 30,000-foot view is that between the pressures of the jobs situation and the health care debate, the Democrats are in fairly bad shape. …Certainly, if I were the Democrats, I’d be adopting a fairly defensive posture, putting money into defending seats — especially those held by non-Blue Dog incumbents — rather than getting cute and trying to pick off more than a handful of potentially vulnerable Republican seats. I’d also be thinking about policies — like a jobs package and financial regulation — that tap a little bit into the populist spirit and might result in somewhat awkward Republican positioning.” http://www.fivethirtyeight.com/ (emphasis added)
I don’t really give a shit about the political side to the jobs issue. America need a jobs program, not the Democratic party! If they can’t deliver on jobs and a better life for working people in this country, then why support them?
We need a serious direct employment program a la the WPA, CCC, etc and unlike the stimulus bill. Bill Moyers interviewed James Galbraith on his show two weeks ago, and James spoke very eloquently about the need for this. They talk about a little know speech by FDR during the war in 44 in which he listed the economic rights that all Americans should have. One of them was the right to get a job if you want a job.
Hmmm, Obama definitely sounds like more of a Hoover.
Michael Moore gets into the economic Bill of Rights FDR proposed in Capitalism: A Love Story. Japan adopted it. Our congresscritters damned sure didn’t. We lose. And our loss has become permanent, hasn’t it?
Here’s a hero, a champion. Please share this as widely as you can. She explains things, including very complicated things, so very clearly.
Very cool, I have to see that. And agreed, Elizabeth Warren is the bomb.
I’m surprised no one’s mentioned the admin drill that the stim has created or saved a million jobs (or whatever the figure is they’re using). As a political matter, I think they should shut their fat traps about that calculation. When unemployment continues to rocket, it makes them look like shysters.
Captain of the Titanic boasting about how much water he bailed.
Great analogy.
The figures are imaginary in the end its plus or minus total job growth, you can claim you saved tons of imaginary jobs if you use the right math model:) Just don’t mention that at the end of the day America in total lost jobs instead focus the press on all the jobs you saved Fun Fun Happy time!
In the end total jobs created above the expected population growth rate is a plus that and and its good paying job with benefits or McDonalds.
Bush and now Obama play games with numbers on jobs remember before the bank collapse when Bobo and the GOP were arguing that Bush was not getting credit for the Good economy? Same shit different
President.
I like Obama but like my Brother when he is depressed he has to get mad first before he gets out of his depression. Normally I used to make fun of him being mopey. Obama on the economy is mopey we need jobs, people need to keep their homes, I hope I can get Obama angry enough to denounce/yell at the Left and then go out and do what needs to be done.
And thats copy FDR!
If the shoe fits.
Here’s a link to FDR’s second bill of rights. The film clip of FDR actually giving this speech, on radio, was lost until Michael Moore found it during research for “Capitalism: A Love Story”.
Unfortunately, FDR passed away before he was able to put his second bill of rights into law.
http://www.fdrheritage.org/bill_of_rights.htm
Thanks so much for that link.
No jobs? No problem! It just takes a little ingenuity to maintain our luxury American lifestyles:
http://bit.ly/fxv3G
(satire)
Hoover believed in Lazzie Faire or let the market sort things out government interference is wrong after FDR Lazzie Faire or Hooverism became a bad word so Chicago School economics or Reaganomics became the new label.
What Obama is doing now is following Helicopter Ben’s plan throw money off Helicopters to the banks. Ben studied the Great Depression it was his thesis his answer is a modification of Hoover’s economic ideas.
Government should get involved by giving the same big businesses that caused the Depression lots of cash to keep going so the banking system does not collapse like it did under Hoover forcing FDR to create federally deposit insurance.
Funny we don’t have Federal deposit insurance on the bad home loan paper that the banks were pushing that caused this whole mess.
Yes we needed to stabilize the banks however we have not stopped those idiots from gamboling which is why we are in this mess. Helicopter Ben unlike FDR believes we should just throw money at gamboling junkies/bankers and that the market, er junkies will do a better job than government will after all junkies can regulate their own lives better than government can.
I would love to see any economic papers showing the value of FDR’s programs to put people to work. Then I would compare those results to how Helicopter Ben’s plan is working.
Obama needs to fire Ben, Summers, Geithner just say hey I was a new President these guys all had good resumes but what ever they are doing has not worked. Americans need to work now.
Why did Helicopter Ben study the Great Depression looking for a GOP solution? FDR’s plan worked and it worked better than Ben’s plan is working now. A general rule of thumb is any change in the economy takes about 6 months before it starts to get noticed.
Fine the Banks at least as long as we don’t look at the books (they are arguing for weaker regulations again) the Dow is up I expect it will go down allot before Christmas.
However Helicopter Ben started these changes when the banks collapsed before Obama was elected its been over a year unemployment is only getting worse.
Conclusion a rising tide does not lift all boats. We have to do something about jobs now.
Did the GOP which hates Unions and Workers getting a fair wage, never mind CEO pay has skyrocketed, in FDR’s time ever have the nerve to argue American workers are over paid and should have wages that are competitive with third world countries?
(The unspoken premise of Thomas Friedman Globalization is Great columns at the supposedly Liberal New York Times.)
Thanks in part to Globalization helping to destroy the economy, American banks sold funny home loan paper around the world without a world market to buy that bad paper American banks would never have been able to unload that much junk which caused the size of the banking collapse.
Resulting in Tom’s Wife’s billions going up in smoke. I think she should divorce him. How can she read her husbands columns and not cry over her missing billions?
I’ve thought for the last several months that Obama is indeed a Democratic Herbert Hoover. Obama doesn’t recognize that truly fundamental transformational change is needed to prevent the U.S. from eventual collapse. There will be two classes, the very rich and their politicians and then everyone else. A hard, brutish life for most but a utopia for the rich.
Rich, indeed. Read this morning that the Madoff auction is about to begin and he had 17 (!) Rolex watches. The choice every morning must have been staggering. poor thing. s/
See Kevin Baker’s brilliant and sadly prescient article “Barack Hoover Obama” in the July 2009 issue of Harper’s Magazine: http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/07/0082562
very good article, lots of information, explains things very well. thanks. (Need a drink now, after reading it)
Anyone else think that Thomas Friedman’s wife wanders around her remaining Mansions tearing out her hair and moaning Thomas Friedman give me back my Billions?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Publius_Quinctilius_Varus
Quinctilius Varus got 3 Roman Legions wiped out as you can guess he was a Crony appointment. Bush on the economy was all Cronies and Yes Men.
I think the growth of Cronies and yes men in power is a beeter predictor of an empires decline than War, Famine Plague and Death after all think about what causes Empires to experience that.
Bad Decisions! born from a lack of desire from the elite to help the public get stronger a trade between short term riches now for the Elite vs long term growth for everyone and stability later.
Could not agree more and I think all the Lefty blogs agree on that!
He sees what the nice men from elite schools tell him to see us dirty hippies don’t know jack! Bush felt the same way yet the Lefty Blogs were STILL RIGHT ABOUT EVERYTHING THAT WENT WRONG DURING BUSH’S 8 YEARS.
President Obama needs to start looking at people’s track records on the issues.
Understatement fflambeau riding the anger of 10% plus unemployment and people losing their homes the Sarah Palin wing of the GOP will start to put the ideas of Glen Beck into practice preparing the way for Sarah,
Hmmm? I have never had the opportunity to study a complete Real Totalitarian Society before up close just imagine everywhere you go you will be like an African American in the suburbs!
Unless you join the Borg, and start reading 1984 as a how to book on how behave in public!
The most powerful man on earth warps the Time/Space Continuum
By the end of Obama’s first & last presidential term, he will simultaneously have impersonated Hoover, Ford, Carter & Clinton, thereby making four years seem interminably like sixteen.
No wonder people are confused. He’s turned the bully pulpit into a whipping post.
Way to go, Rahm.
Per Peter S. Goodman at NYT 11/07/09: http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/08/weekinreview
In other words, the lean times for the middle class are here to stay unless we restructure our economy. But the middle class wants to protect the upper class whom each of them idividually expect soon to join. And the upper class will keep on trickling down on them.
Book Salon is up at the Mothership with Paul Tough’s Whatever It Takes: Geoffrey Canada’s Quest to Change Harlem and America hosted by Andrea Batista Schlesinger.
Btw, did you see Charlie Rose’s hero worship interview with Warren Buffet last night? As the richest investor in the world takes over the largest U.S. railroad system, we’ve come full circle back to a 21st century age of robber barons.
How’s that $100 billion in taxpayer bailouts, guarantees and tax subsidies doing in your portfolio, Warren?
obama supposedly studied fdr…the only conclusion a person could come away with knowing that is that obama believes the republican meme, they actually are claiming fdr lengthened the depression
obama made the same mistakes as hoover, he gave money to the very thiefs who caused the problem in the first place and he refuesed to deregulate the industry that caused the collapse because of deregulation
then he actually used the rediculous “trickle down” theory and gave money to the top expecting it to come down creating jobs
how rediculous
he actually cut jobs and spending in government rather then expand jobs
the man just does not get it, the economy works from the bottom up not the top down
we need jobs, we do not need to make the people who give jobs happy, we need to create jobs
he is the hoover of latter day
Welcome to the new feudal capitalism, perris.
Watch what happens over the next three years, and you’ll see that what once was true, is no more. As goes a vibrant, productive, profit sharing, forward thinking middle class, so goes the American experiment in a participatory, representative republic.
Elizabeth Warren is the only person I trust at the federal level, period.
http://www.pbs.org/now/shows/546/index.html
If she survives the Brooksley Born treatment, we may have a chance.
If not …. We’ll always have Paris.
National magazine cover fantasies aside, I think the Hoover comparison is much more apt than the FDR one.
Mr. Obama is not just timid about the ability of the government to ameliorate in a timely way the brutality of capitalism’s unregulated excesses. He prefers to leave such things in the hands of his Goldman Scratch-reared advisers. They have predictably bailed out capitalists from the risks of their excesses with socialist tax dollars. The return they will earn on the people’s investments in banksters and others will be low or negative.
Mr. Obama is also timid about ending his wars and even defining the victory for which they are fought. He is timid about protecting the Constitution from his own and his predecessor’s excesses, and protecting the law and the administration of justice from levels of politicization not seen since Texas justice first became an oxymoron.
we needed a roosevelt and we got a carter that gives great speeches.
love the guy but he still thinks what worked as a jr senator will work as pres.
hey lets elect another bush,jeb is really and willing.
lets finish the job bush jr started. to promote a third world status for america.
more tax cuts for the rich and the corps.
that has worked so well in the past
americans will line up to vote for jeb after obama fails
now lets invade iran and get their oil. it is the american way while the world watchs and loves watching us in this steep decline.
the bully in the world is on its way down fast.
and the world loves it even if it costs them profits for our not being able to buy their stuff.
everyone loves to see a bully beaten up and fail.
oh we are not a bully you say. over 700 military bases around the world says otherwise.
the mass media will not tell you these things. why profits from corp american will dry up.
“We all know there are limits to what banks will alow me to do
government can and shouldeven during such difficult times.” – ObamaObama is a perfect example of what I have been saying for years. Here is a man with a great education, and the degrees to prove it, but doesn’t know shit about the real world.
We in this Country put way to much stock in education and degree’s that people have and not their speach and actions. It is proven with Ecconomists, Lawyers, and professors.
The think tanks in Washington may not actually be part of the Government but influence it greatly. Many of the Neocons reside there, with hords of lerned people.
My Question is, Why with all these so-called smart people do we have so many problems and no solutions?
Could it be that smart people really aren’t that smart?
Or could it be they are so wrapped up in How smart they are, that limits there thinking ability.
If we are truly the greatest Country in the world, why can’t we keep ourselves safe, debt free, and economically sound. Why can’t we take care of our people, keep our country working, and solve our problems.
I think we have convinced ourselves how great we are, like the smart people have convinced themselves how smart they are, and not spent enough time in make it come true.
The Best and the Brightest Redux — At this rate, Matt Taibbi will be Obama’s David Halberstam.
Maybe smart is negated by short sighted greed?
At last somebody other than us tells it like it is:
UN Investigator Accuses US of Shameful Neglect of Homeless
UN special rapporteur says wealthy US ignoring deepening homeless crisis while pumping billions into bank rescues
LINK.
There is a good reason that Obama is not FDR. FDR came to office in the spring of 1933, three and a half years after Black Tuesday. The country had been experiencing dire straits for so long it was open to strong action, even if it was radical. Even then, FDR could not accomplish all he wanted. Obama came into office only months after a financial crisis began. This was not enough time to prepare the country for a radical program like bank nationalization. Look at all the resistance Obama got, even to the watered-down stimulus package.
In hindsight, the best course would have been to nationalize the banks. But the country was not ready for that at the time. That resulted in a situation in which the dénouement was inevitable.
However, it is unlikely that even the most radical action could prevent a very severe crisis from occurring since this is a credit cycle, not a business cycle. Credit cycles are decades in building and it takes a long time to fix them since a lot of bad debt has to be unwound. It this is unwound quickly, as liquidationists call for, the result would be spiraling deflation, swift economic contraction, and social catastrophe.
Bush got blamed at first, but soon, if not now, Obama will own the economy. However, the credit fiasco cannot be blamed on either Obama or Bush. It began building decades ago and there is a lot of blame to go around.
Obama did make some mistakes in choice of advisors, leaning much too heavily on neoliberal economists whose approach to financial accounting is overly monetarist. My advise to Obama would be to replace them, fire Geithner, and not reappoint Bernanke, picking instead progressively inclined experts who actually saw the crisis coming. Otherwise, Obama will surely go down in history as the Hoover of today.
On one hand, I think Obama is in Hoover’s position because of timing, with the time not yet ripe for another FDR. We just aren’t there yet, but we will be before long. Deflation is winning.
On the other hand, there’s no sense dithering or backtracking. Sticking the same team that got it wrong twice is pretty bad, but tightening in the name of “fiscal responsibility” would be the disaster that destroys the Democratic Party. Obama needs to take a page from Lincoln, who fired Gen. McClellan. If Lincoln had stuck with him, we probably wouldn’t have to worry about Southern conservatives though. But if Obama sticks with this present team, we may be eating grass soon in a GOP administration. If the GOP gets in and does what they propose economically, it will be the complete opposite of FDR and drive the country into a deeper depression than we would experience otherwise.
There is no easy way out of a long credit cycle that ends in extreme debt-deflation. But some ways are worse than others. Anyone who thinks that this problem can be solved quickly or short-term is misinformed.
Nice analysis, but I think you are not accurate in your suggestion that the country was not yet ready for the government to take over the operation of heavily indebted and near failing banks.
The public was eminently ready and they expressed that preference in poll after poll. And if you were to take a poll today I’m sure that is what they would still prefer. They were frustrated in their preference very explicitly by the Congress and Obama. If those are the people you refer to as the country at large that is a mischaracterization.
To what extent the public was willing to have the government heavily intervene in the resolution of the debt of large investment institutions is not clear because that option was never presented to the public.
FDR took action as President the same office that Obama occupies. The difference is that whereas FDR chose to act to reorganize the Banks Obama was not willing to do so. There is no letting Obama off the hook he is responsible for the course he took.
The fact that debt at the private, large banks and large investing institutions which is responsible for the economic meltdown, takes a long time to unwind is irrelevant. It is no excuse for the course of action Obama took. He was simply inclined, because of his free market beliefs, to give public money to banks rather than to have the government take over their operations and resolve their debt that way.
The relief of private debt would be much more orderly and less deflationary with the government resolving the obligations of failed banks and facilitating funds to solvent banks for them to provide credit.
Both parties are totally corrupt. The few honest men and women in Democratic party are just supplying cover for the rest. I’d advise them to get out,(if you lie down with dogs you get up with fleas),and yell loudly why they’re leaving. We need a new political coalition that represents the 80% of the population Gov. Dean talked about.
So, fifty seven comments mean fifty seven complaints. What did you sound like when Bush was in office? And what will you sound like when Sarah Palin lead you? First of all, the man has been in office less than a year. Oh, i forgot, he is a Black man. He supposed to do your bidding. Let the Republicans come back into office. Let’s go to war. Let’s make sure healthcare doesn’t pass. Let’s make sure no chicken is in the pot because of less government. You complaining idiots. If you know so much, you run for President. If I was President Obama, since none of you address him respectfully, I would give the keys to the white house to your republican friends. How about Michael Steel. He is a Black man who would love to hear your complaints.
Thats the spirit! Have you met Pheonix Woman? you two should hang out, you’re great together – you could even teach her a few things about logic and linearity!
Here is my extravagant theory: Obama is competently implementing the plan desired by his largest campaign contributor, who has also loaned out so many of is top economic advisers.
warning, link NSFRADA! (Not Safe for Reality Averse Democratic Apologists)
so, Hoover may have bungled the early years of the Depression out of genuine ineptitude, denial, and obliviousness, but Obama has no such easy excuses. He’s bungling the current depressionary cycle because Goldman Sachs and their ilk paid the piper, and now they get to call the tune.
it seems I agree
The base of the Democratic Party, especially those of progressives and liberals
Obama will piss on them always. He has disdain for “the left”.
Thanks. I totally agree with the author on this. Also, this being on the front page and the diversity in comments here is why I like this site. Had this appeared on DKos, most of the comments would have been personal attacks on the author and those who agreed, then back and forth between these people. One of the most popular diaries this year was a divisive flame attack on those who dare boycott the Democratic Party if they continue to sell us out – http://www.dailykos.com/story/2009/11/13/10586/565
Just wish other sites, like FDL, were as popular as it was.
Now that we’re over the euphoria of the “first black President”, maybe we need to point out to him that he’s got another first coming up if he doesn’t fire the assholes around him and remember that “It’s the Economy Stupid”… First Black One-Term President.
I’ve been saying that for quite some time, everyone told me I was nutz
this man is a disaster, we elected him for transparency, instead he covers up, we elected him for progressive economics, instead he’s a hoover, we elected him for peace and he destroyed the peace movement
he had the rare oportunity to undo great harm, right unbelievable wrong, and bring back the great society
he had the chance to be considered among the greatest presidents ever to serve
now he will be considered a miserable failure
me not happy
“the inches we need are all around us…”
FDL community is FLAILING.
Can we agree on some things?
1) Obama is a disappointment to SOME Progressive goals?
2) Obama was and is not supported by every Democrat or Progressive coming in, and it is fair to look at his shortcomings?
And settle down.
Obama’s recent announcement that he intends to be a defecit hawk in 2010 a year after pushing through a stimulus package tells me the man does not know what he is doing. His lack of ability and leadership has hampered healthcare reform. He has given trillions of dollars to Wall Street without any strings attached. He will escalate the war in Afghanistan and may do so in Iran even though troops are still stuck in Iraq. He underestimated the rise in unemployment and appears to have no plans to solve it and basically we are kind of stuck with a guy who does not know what he is doing at this time. His defecit hawk impersonitation is going to kill his economic recovery plans but oh well at least some of the defecit hawks will approve of him and we know how much their approval of him means to him.
For those who may not have heard the story you’re referring to:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091113/ap_on_bi_ge/us_obama_deficit
Obama announced during his trip to Asia that they think they’re losing votes, and will lose more votes for the 2010 elections, due to deficits. They think the problem is losing deficit hawks, and to win them back, he’s going to strive for a domestic spending freeze. He also hopes this will please China as they’re not happy about our increasing deficit.
I personally wouldn’t mind this goal IF the cuts were in the military budget and corporate welfare/bailouts, but instead it’s going to be on domestic things, like government jobs, education, etc. Not very “left” (of center) at all.
I think there is little doubt that Obama is the Democratic Hoover, although that’s far from his only problem.
This article in Harper’s made the case for him being the Democratic Hoover very well. http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/07/0082562
The president doesn’t have to leave the country to make his points, the Secretary of State does a fine job representing us on foreign trips. If Japan and Britain can get by without their heads of state attending summit meetings, I think we can as well.
In fact, If I remember correctly, no sitting president left US soil during his term of office until Wilson went to the Paris Peace Conference in 1919. He and we would have lived in a better world if he’d stayed home.
I am among the long term unemployed. I was under-employed for several years before the s*** really hit the fan, and I have hated it. Many of us were aware of much deeper problems that were being glossed over by market gains for some time in advance of this situation.
But Barack Obama didn’t create it. I don’t know what will and will not work in the long haul but neither do you. This is all literate and articulate speculation. You have absolutely no idea how many moving parts this monolith is hiding. Judging his job performance at this point is intellectual mastrubation.
What we do know is that if we don’t get the cooperation from governments around the world, countries Bush alienated incomprehensibly, we will toast. So give it rest and give the president a chance.
So I started to read this story then I read the comment section and damn it feels like I’m reading the comment section of Freerepublic.
I think this is one of the reasons why Obama doesn’t play up to the progressives because it doesn’t take them long to turn into babies.
I’m personally a progressive but damn reading this site makes me loose respect for my own cause. The reason why blue dogs and republicans walk all over us is because when they don’t get what they want from their leadership they don’t turn into little children and take their balls and go home.
so, he shouldn’t play up to the scientists when they insist water is wet because if he says it’s not they yell and scream?
the template for fixing this economy were laid before the man, with each previous economic collapse it was and will ALWAYS be progressive economics that restructures that collapse and rebuilds the economy
the progressives predicted all the failures long before obama made the mistakes, they critisise not in hind site but with the facts before his failure takes place
the man did not have one progressive economic advisor on his board, yet he had the banksters on his board and boy oh boy did he take the banksters advise
oh, surprise surprise, why there they go stealing again
who could have predicted?
my bold. good, vital point.
but, its not surprising, sometimes people whose models and hypotheses are compatible with reality are able to make accurate predictions!
like Arthur Silber, and Chris Floyd, whose point of view has had predictive validity about the behavior of the Democratic Party.
Namely, that
Arthur Silbur, from 2006
But these are not the people who are welcome at the White House, or at DailyKos, and those Democrats who are pure of heart avert their gaze here at FDL.
Just because it’s irritating doesn’t make it wrong. I take it that by “he” in your comment, you don’t mean Hoover. You can get around that by capitalizing the h, thus: “He.” No thanks necessary;…
Ah yes, the OFB infantilization talking point. Well done.
Jeezus, you better pray he doesn’t tighten fiscal policy unless you like eating grass. Worst of all, it would put all the bailout money to waste when the banks collapse. Hopefully he’s just bullshitting and will do something cosmetic or shift expenditure off budget in some way. It’s such a pity that he doesn’t have the vision to match his rhetoric, because half a trillion on green infrastructure would leave a legacy to your grandkids (and ours) that you could all be proud of. Employing those 5.6 million people in doing it would be pretty useful too.
@ndguy
How long should progressives give Obama to do something, you know, progressive before they can legitimately complain?
How short your memory is that you cannot remember how we laughed ourselves silly over the message discipline of the right when they united behind Bush.
Twain (15) — Our cred and reputation has been so tarnished by the Bush/Cheney years that Obama MUST do diplomatic work in order to repair the damage. Not merely for foreign policy reasons, but for our economy, too.
Perhaps it’s not as obvious or as personal as this is to my household and our town. My spouse is currently planning what will be his seventh trip to China in a one-year period of time. He’s been bringing manufacturing work home to our desperate home state Michigan, and can only continue to do so if our countries remain on good terms. Without this Chinese business, my spouse’s company would have folded up shop and we’d be out our investment in the firm and more than 150 workers in our state would have lost their jobs and benefits.
This is only one small example; there are many, many more like this. While you may think this is all fun and games, I can assure you it’s not, especially when China holds the largest portion of American debt, and represents the single largest opportunity for American export sales for the next several decades.
iremember54 (50) — We just had a president and vice-president who were supposed to be very business-savvy; they knew all kinds of smart people with the right kind of business experience — like the folks who advised the Energy Task Force — and they made sure they had opportunities to steer our country’s economy. How’d that work out for us?
The real problem is that we are in a depression. A massive freaking depression, set in motion by those oh-so-savvy experienced business people. It’s every damned bit as bad as the first Great Depression, and made worse by the fact that nobody wants to use the “D” word aloud for fear of tanking the market. So everybody, smart and dumb alike, are trying to dig out of a tremendously deep pit while pretending they aren’t doing just that.
Compound the problem with a near-complete lack of people qualified to get us out of this mess, due to a systematic, institutionalization of the Chicago School of Economics and its Shock Doctrine of disaster capitalism which created the mess we are in. THERE ARE VIRTUALLY NO QUALIFIED PEOPLE TO GET US OUT. All they teach in business school and the other professions which support business (like economics and law) is the Shock Doctrine; all the corporate and academic jobs out there are predicated on an education based on the Shock Doctrine. And all the measures of success, like using the GDP as a benchmark of performance, are part and parcel of the Shock Doctrine.
And we’re going to blame one guy, one Barack Obama, for this decades-long situation?
Until we the people demand a complete remaking of our business school curriculums and a corresponding reset of our financial institutions in sync with new and more effective regulation, WE are the problem.
I wrote a piece on June 19 Kevin Baker’s Harpers “Barack Hoover Obama”. Brilliant piece as all Baker’s pieces are. Aged Satraps from Vast and Windy Places
There were a few people who two years ago pointed out Obama’s conservative leanings. Paul Street followed Obama for over 15 years. People need to acknowledge that Obama is a conservative wedded to the status quo. Sometimes not a bad thing, but in these times…it stinks to high heaven.
Its an absolute tragedy. He had all the political capital in the world, and the people behind him for change. Instead he sells himself out to
Goldman Sachs and brings this country to its knees.
I have thought since I began seeing Obama’s economics team that the Hoover comparison is particularly apt. Hoover was presented with an unconventional situation but could only conceive and react to it in conventional terms. Much the same could be said of Obama. He wants to replay the Clinton Presidency. He even has filled his Administration with Clintonistas, but the Clinton years aren’t coming back. Nor should they. They set the stage for the current collapse.
I would agree with Rayne that certain parts of the country are already in flatout depression. But this is like nothing we will be seeing in 2011 unless Obama radically changes direction.
I would also agree that we are the problem but that I would add that Obama is the President and if he can’t stand the heat he should get out of the kitchen.
we’ve been in a depression for about 6 years, the middle class began their economic depressing under and because of reagan, further with bush 1, a slight respite under clinton, steroids under bush 2 and now not even do we see brakes in the collapse under this blue dog we elected for president
I don’t disagree but I think economic conditions are going to hit the wall like nothing we have seen since the Great Depression in 2011. The fundamentals continue to deteriorate, the politicians continue to pursue corporatist policies over the precipice, the stock market will tank, and things will really start to fall apart.
Agreed, Hugh
Count me in & make it 4. I agree with you, Perris and PPDCUS.
Count me in and make it 5. Don’t keep money in stock unless, of course, it stock in the privatized prison industry. Their stock is expected to go up 39%.
(In the new Harper’s).
The Chinese refuse to float their currency. Their banks are nationalized. They have resisted being “shocked” by the Friedmanites. But we are now in full blown Shock Doctrine here. And yes, they will go after Social Security next. I saw that in the primaries with the what I thought was a not so subtle attack on the irresponsible Sixties and the “psychodrama of the boomers” by Obama. He kept sowing the seeds of generational conflict which I found one of the more repulsive parts of his campaign. It was especially virulent over at the dailykos.
The prediction about the prison industry doesn’t surprise, but I would never invest in that industry or the MIC because of what they do.
I don’t have any money to invest, but if I did, I’d stay out of the Wall Street Casino because it’s rigged by the Fed subsidies and low interest rates. Stocks are trading unpredictably without insider information. Accounting practices are going to become 100% opaque and subject to change without notice so that outsiders have no way of reasonably knowing how well a company is doing or projecting how well it will do. Extremely dangerous time to invest any money in the market. Any outsider who does is likely to get wiped out.
Oh, for goodness sake … anyone who actually believes that Hoover would have intervened and spent over $1T on stimulus measures and gov’t backing for public companies is either a complete idiot or doesn’t know the first thing about American political history!
yeah! anyone who actually believes that Barack Obama would do anything like believe
” … the economic theory that the stock market crash was a consequence of inequality of wealth and income. In November 1929, he met with industrialists and union leaders and negotiated a deal whereby industry agreed not to reduce wages and labor unions agreed not to strike. This later led to Hoover signing into law the Davis-Bacon Act, which required local governments to pay union wages on public works projects”
has got to be a complete idiot!
Instead, our modern-day hapless incompetent funnels the trillions to the very same Wall Street parasites that crashed the economy, so they can pay themselves record bonuses!
Vote for more of that every 2 years, Democrats, and you will indeed get more of that.
We have had 30 years of fiscal scolds who talk about the deficit, but when someone (say Bill Clinton) actually lowers it, their next move is to pass tax cuts and start wars to run the deficit up again. So the current Congress is packed with hypocritical bastards and economic know-nothings.
Most states constitutionally require a balanced budget; California adds the onus of having to have a supermajority to pass tax increases. Consequently the states are in a legal bind.
So we have 50 Herbert Hoovers in state capitals and 535 Herbert Hoovers in Congress and influential Herbert Hoovers like Pete Peterson, former CEO of Ford.
It is no wonder that Obama, who seeks stakeholder support, is shoved in the direction of being yet another Herbert Hoover.
Under better circumstances, you would have economic advisers, the Secretary of the Treasury, and the Secretary of Commerce to advocate for non-Herbert Hoover policies, but a generation of neoliberal and Chicago School economics has intellectually destroyed the ability of these advisers to deal with reality.
In short, the mood in Washington and the state capitals is Hooverism.
And what is this Hooverism that we are talking about. It is not just a weakness in leadership. It is a fetish for a balanced budget even in times when the budget has to create a deficit and actually pay ordinary people in order to stimulate the demand that would cause businesses to want to expand production again — and hire people. Herbert Hoover wanted to deal with unemployment, but he did exactly the wrong things. Roosevelt started doing he wrong things to, but they didn’t work and he had some unlikely advisers who out of a practical approach to the problem got him moving on things like the CCC and PWA and WPA. And the consult the stakeholders approach, the NRA failed miserably even before the Supreme Court put it out of its misery.
The jobs summit is the lamest idea to come down the pike in this presidency. It is tailor made for the fiscal scolds to start trying to eliminate “entitlements” while holding the national security budgets harmless. The fiscal scolds talk about government bloat, but they mistake where that bloat is. And so we will find the administration kicking the jobs can down the road just like they did with healthcare while the Conrads and Baucuses and Liebermans and of course the Republicans seek a commission to keep their fingerprints off the destruction of Social Security, Medicare, and a bunch of other elements of what is left of the safety net.
Nice comments. One of the strongest voices in FDR’s cabinet was Frances Perkins, the Secretary of Labor. She would often be the last one to leave his office. So totally opposite of now with the Summers and other Chicago Boys not only the last ones in the office, but actually running things. They keep the president on the road giving speeches and meeting with leaders while they apply the shock doctrine here at home.
Mariner Eccles was also an awesome Federal Reserve chairman. Bernanke just wants to belong to the club.
Mediocrity abounds as we have elected a bunch of managers, but no fixers. No engineers or architects, just petty pencil pushers.
Please, don’t insult the memory of Herbert Hoover.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
Sorry Mr. president. Your bought and paid for by the Wall Street elite and your wide smile, speeches and steady gate have done nothing to produce even anemic job growth. Continue on this path and you will be a one term wonder. We don’t require a job summit. We require jobs. We require a Manhattan project when it comes to jobs. We need roads repaired, bridges repaired, schools built and a monumental effort to get green technologies off the ground and out of the back room where lobbyists continue to throw millions around just making sure everyone from the industries of coal, hydroelectric, nuclear as well as oil try their best to maintain the status quo. We can do better Mr. President. It’s about time you tried something different. At the least, try making an effort.
“No, he is the next Jimmy Carter unless he starts to defend himself from all the smears.”
Yeah, that will be the reason he is the next Jimmy Carter. It won’t be because of his inaction and weakness on foreign policy, it won’t be because of his botched handling of the economy, it will be because “progressive” (because harking back seven fucking decades is real progress)bloggers don’t fight back against big, bad Fox News.
Sooooo… you came calling here to provide moral support?
No I came calling here because you people are pathetic weasels who like to insult everyone who doesn’t EXACTLY share your views. It is nice to shake things up in the echo chamber that is this site.
The Obama Record: Record unemployment, record deficits, no legislative accomplishments.
“UN Investigator Accuses US of Shameful Neglect of Homeless
UN special rapporteur says wealthy US ignoring deepening homeless crisis while pumping billions into bank rescues:
Well, its nice to know that the UN has taken care of the genocide in Sudan, halted the development of nuclear missiles in NK and Iran, and just generally put an end to all murderous tyrannies worldwide and can finally address the real pressing issue on the world stage: Homelessness in the United States.
Damn, Marge – the dog got into the whiskey again.
YOu gotta love it. People who call themselves “progressive” itching to enact policies that were old before WWII broke out. Calling the left progressive (one would think such a title would involve new ideas) is like calling a snail speedy. We wink when we say it because we all know it is a fucking joke.
Arguing about whether Obama is more like Hoover than Lincoln or whomever is rather like arguing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. Fact is he’s doing a lousy job and now he’s floating trial balloons about reducing the deficit, which is the mistake FDR made in 1937.
This is not the time to think about deficit reduction unless the real goal is to destroy any possibility for economic recovery. The banks still aren’t lending and Main Street is still dead. The signs of a recovery are all due to the Fed’s low interest rates and propping up too big to fail investment houses and banks, plus the cash for clunkers and first-time home buyer’s credit programs. The real unemployment rate is pushing 20% and still climbing. We are in a depression and the economy is getting worse. It will collapse, if he doesn’t reimpose Glass-Steagall and break-up the too-big-to-fail banks and investment houses. Unfortunately, he isn’t going to do either.
Now is the time to massively increase spending from the ground up on creating jobs; it’s not the time to cut government spending. Worry about paying down the deficit once the economy is up and running.
Ask Krugman, Stiglitz, and Roubini, if you don’t believe me. Summers is an idiot. Pity that Obama only has ears for him, the Republican non-factor opposition, and the Blue Dogs. You can say one thing about Obama: he listens to whiners and ignores smart people who know what they are talking about and want to help him. Either he’s in way over his head and listening to all the wrong people or he’s doing exactly what he wants do by following the Chicago School’s Shock Doctrine to liberate Milton Friedman’s unregulated free markets and marrying that disastrous idea to Strauss’s neoconservative imperialist ideology that produced the Project for the New American Century and a foreign policy of never-ending war to gain control of the planet’s natural resources. I believe the latter is more likely than the former, but regardless of why he’s doing what he’s doing, he’s destroying this country and much of the rest of the world and his karmic debt already is beyond measure.
He needs to stop and if he doesn’t, we’re going to have to stop him in 2012.
BTW, Jimmy Carter deserves a lot more respect than people give him here because he was far ahead of his time on the importance of conservation and the environment and Bush I literally stole his presidency and presented it to Reagan by trading arms and money to Ayatollah Khomeini to delay releasing the American Embassy hostages until after the 1980 election. AND, Carter earned the Nobel Peace Prize while Obama didn’t.
So, love Obama or hate him, he’s death to our economy. And that, I’m sorry to say, is the plain unvarnished truth.
Have a nice day!
A very irritating post. Hoover? Have you forgotten that he pushed the stimulus? And that he’s pushing health care reform? Okay, he’s not the great progressive hope that so many imagined him to be, but it it is lazy, irreponsible, and ahistorical to suggest that he’s another Hoover. I hope you purists enjoy the Romney administration in 2012.
Amen, ohymighty … the author even stole a book from the conservative press’ playbook by nailing Obama for have the nerve to actually visit Asia! How dare he! We have 10% unemployment here! And if I believe the blog author we’ll soon see 12% unemployment. Guarenteed! What a crock … take Macro Econ 101 and then come back with an updated blog post …
“fflambeau” may need to go back and read a history book or 2 …
If you really think that Hoover would have helped to push through a bill similar to this year’s economic stimulus plan, then you are really showing your ignorance in a big, big way, my friend!
Instead, I think you are just trying to be provocative as many of your peers here on FDL often do and are instead creating an atmosphere whereby liberals are turing away from Obama, creating an opening for more Repubs and conservatives to gain voter enthusiasm in 2010/2012.
Not smart. You should work to try to look outside of your idealogic bubble once & a while and realize the realities of the political constraints that Obama and the Dems have to work within. There is not much direct intervention that the gov’t would be able to pass at this juncture.
Lastly, stop with praising Krugman already. His piece about the stim being a GDP and not a job stimulus is laughable. It was Krugman who PUSHED for this idea! And if you are ignorant enough to believe employment will reach 12%, then you have no place to write a piece about replacing Geithner or Summers.
Excuse me, but real unemployment is already at least 17.5% and still climbing. I say “at least” because even that figure doesn’t include all categories of the unemployed and underemployed. I’ve seen numbers like 20.2% and 35%.
Plus, the government doesn’t even keep track of the number of homeless people. I’ve seen estimates at around 3 million and climbing.
Not quite … unemployment is @ 10%. You are mixing indexes. There will be increased hiring in December and if the layoffs continue to slow (which they did last week), will mean that 10+% will be the lowest point of the trough.
“There will be increased hiring in December and if the layoffs continue to slow (which they did last week), will mean that 10+% will be the lowest point of the trough.”
That is a BIG, FAT, MAYBE.
I am not mixing indexes. My point is the 10% figure disguises the real rate of unemployment, which is much higher and no less than 17.5%
Of course, there will be some increased hiring in December because of Christmas, but there is no reason to believe that most, if not all of those new hires will retain their jobs come February.
Other than wishful thinking, I don’t see any basis for believing the employment situation will improve at all in 2010, unless Obama ushers in a massive new stimulus and public works projects. But he’s talking about focusing on deficit reduction instead, which is as clueless as clueless gets, and likely to pitch the economy into freefall.
Ok, so he is the modern Hoover. Good. Then he will fail. And the Repubs will take over and then the nation will MASSIVELY fail. And finally, FINALLY things will get terrible enough that real change has a CHANCE of happening. I have said all along, from the very beginning that nothing fundamental ever changes in this country without a full-blown, system threatening crisis. This has happened only twice in our history: The Civil War and The Great Depression. So everybody just relax, pull up a seat, grab some popcorn and wait for the REAL games to begin.
Personally, I’ve thought the best presidential comparison has been the most recent guy, Bill Clinton. You can take a description of them personally, or a description of their economic policies, separate out the name, and it could virtually apply to either one of them. Their advisors even overlap in certain nonrandom ways.
For example, it’s telling that Geithner is part of the Obama Administration, but Reich is not. Summers is in there, Stiglitz is not. Etc.
The most important comparison, I think, is that Obama’s not losing in 2012. Gen Y is so pissed off at the GOP that there’s no way Romney/Palin or Huckabee/Paul or any other bizarre combination beats an incumbent President. I don’t care how much Obama disappoints. He could do nothing, absolutely nothing, for the next three years and still win re-election.
I agree with montanamaven. The Shock Doctrine is being applied full force to completely destroy our Main Street economy and what’s left of the middle class. I do not doubt that Obama and Sommers intend to abolish Social Security, Medicare, and what’s left of the safety net.
Anyone who hasn’t read The Shock Doctrine by Naomi Klein should do so immediately.