An online PDF version of "Conspiracy Theories" by Sunstein and Vermeule, is a warning to the academic world of the threat of "Conspiracy Theories". Amazingly, this was apparently published as peer reviewed academic research in a genuine research journal., "Conspiracy Theories: Causes and Cures". Marc Estrin of Rag Blog gets credit for showcasing this "research".
As an academic publication, this rubbish is as bad as it gets. The reason it was published is obvious. Sunstein is the newest model of a neo-conservative in a position of power, and his attacks on the US Constitution are classic neo-con. Does everyone at the University of Chicago believe this nonsense because there seems to be no published rebuttal.
But Sunstein is not only a fascist, his research gets a grade of "F". I do not know if any colleagues of Sunstein have the courage to say what a poor piece of research this is. So I will deconstruct Sunstein’s "Conspiracy Theories", CT’s. Almost every sentence is a lie, is deceptive or is neo-con "analytical philosophy and crippled epistemology". It is a painful task to plow through 29 pages of crippled epistemology. About 15 of those pages are drivel and Orwellian Double-speak. Sunstein is a perfect "Big Brother" with his kinder and gentler fascism.
Our principal claim here involves the potential value of cognitive infiltration of extremist groups, designed to introduce informational diversity into such groups and to expose indefensible conspiracy theories as such…Our focus throughout is on false conspiracy theories, not true ones. Our ultimate goal is to explore how public officials might undermine such theories, and as a general rule, true accounts should not be undermined…On our account, a defining feature of conspiracy theories is that they are extremely resistant to correction, certainly through direct denials or counterspeech by government officials…Accordingly, we will focus on indirect means of undermining such theories, principally by breaking up the closed informational networks that produce such theories..vIn some domains, people suffer from a “crippled epistemology,” in the sense that they know very few things, and what they know is wrong. Many extremists fall in this category; their extremism stems not from irrationality, but from the fact that they have little (relevant) information, and their extremist views are supported by what little they know.
Sunstein only needs to look in a mirror to see a crippled extremist who knows very little. Very simply, there are the True and False and Harmful and Harmless and Justified CT’s and Sunstein will decide which is which. Perhaps, someone might ask: Should we not consider each issue on the basis of facts and documentation and investigation. Ha Ha Ha. That is so old school. We have a third rate puke who wants us to believe Freedom is Slavery and the United States Government does not routinely lie to its people.
As for as dangerous cults, goes, what CT is more dangerous than the Neo-con goals to eliminate Government protections and replace the government with corporate fascism and fight perpetual "long" wars. Those traitors such as Richard Haas keep repeating their necessity for Corporate World Domination. Sunstein ignores the Conspiracy outlined in the PNAC Manifesto for a "catastrophic Pearl Harbor type event" that would CHANGE EVERYTHING!
Sunstein quotes Philip Zelikow about the topic of CT’s. Zelikow is similar to Sunstein and although Zelikow is likely eligible for a War Crimes Trial at the Hague. Zelikow compares political dissent to a harmful biological infection.
Philip Zelikow, the executive director of the 9/11 commission, says that “[t]he hardcore conspiracy theorists are totally committed. They’d have to repudiate much of their life identity in order not to accept some of that stuff. That’s not our worry. Our worry is when things become infectious . . . . [t]hen this stuff can be deeply corrosive to public understanding. You can get where the bacteria can sicken the larger body.”
Zelikow is a committed neo-con who led the 9-11, Comimission coverup. But Zelikow was part of the secret planning for the Irak War and part of the attempt to create a Civil War in Irak using Death Squads and and other terrorist violence. Zelikow braggs how successful he was.
Therefore, amid all the attention to the “surge”, Americans and Iraqis have adopted a more effective strategy. While it systematically applies best practices across the country, and does so with more resources, including more troops, it is also more diversified and decentralized in the way it adapts to local politics. The Iraq war is not one conflict. It is a number of different wars, at least five or six.
Zelikow considers himself an"expert" on government propaganda. Zelikow also wrote about the joyful consequences of "catastrophic terrorism" that would change everything and permit Corporate Wars, Torture and US Government making war against its own citizens.
The United States might respond with draconian measures, scaling back civil liberties, allowing wider surveillance of citizens, detention of suspects, and use of deadly force.
No one has been more committed to Coverups and secret neo-con control than Zelikow. It is fascinating how the Bushie Crime Family focused so intently on control of mass communications, through government, NSA, TIA or through private corporations such as Blackwater, SAIC and all the corporate lobbyists of Dee Cee.
Obama is continuing those policies. Or is Obama even a President, because National Security is still controlled by Bushies and the Bilderbergers and the CFR. Domestic Policy is controlled by Goldman Sachs and the unaccountable Federal Reserve, a private bank with secret depositers. Wait! That is a Conspiracy Theory (CT). That Obama is just another Puppet whose strings are pulled by our corporate overlords. I expect I will be getting COGNITIVE INTERVENTION from Sunstein’s Thought Police for my false and harmful CT.
There has been much discussion of what, exactly, counts as a conspiracy theory, and about what, if anything, is wrong with those who hold one.
By much, Sunstein cites two books in 22 years.
a conspiracy theory can generally be counted as such if it is an effort to explain some event or practice by reference to the machinations of powerful people, who have also managed to conceal their role. This account seems to capture the essence of the most prominent and influential conspiracy theories.
Most people have another name for the explanations of events secretly controlled by the wealthy and powerful. It is called HISTORY.
Of course some conspiracy theories, under our definition, have turned out to be true. The Watergate hotel room used by Democratic National Committee was, in fact, bugged by Republican officials, operating at the behest of the White House. In the 1950s, the Central Intelligence Agency did, in fact, administer LSD and related drugs under Project MKULTRA, in an effort to investigate the possibility of “mind control.”
Neither Watergate nor MKULTRA could be considered CT’s. It was known by June 17, 1972, the day after Nixon’s agents were arrested, that they worked for Nixon. There was no conspiratorial speculation about MKULTRA, CIA mind control programs, because no one would even believe the USA Government would secretly give LSD and other drugs to people. Sunstein ignores the most obvious CT’s that were widely discussed during those wonderful 60′s and 70′s. Was the "Gulf of Tonkin Incident" a government conspiracy to justify the Vietnam War. The answer is YES. Another important CT of that time was government spying and covert activities against anti-war protestors. Again, yes, the US government through the COINTELPRO program was spying on and waging secret war against American Citizens.
And indeed, there can be no doubt that some people who accept conspiracy theories are mentally ill and subject to delusions.
The worst mental illness, is to start a war for rich people to get richer and that was Vietnam. It was also a mental illness to start the Irak War for more war profiteering by and for high net worth individuals. But if we are talking insanity, Neo-cons are insane. They forged the Niger Documents and created a False Conspiracy Theory that Irak was going to use weapons of mass destruction. And neo-cons are quite delusional, that no one would notice their war crimes. Sunstein ignores the Niger Forgery Conspiracy, and the Conspiracy to convince the world, Saddam Hussein had nuclear weapons..
It is not easy going through twenty-nine pages of Dreck but it does seem that Sunstein is very ignorant of facts, believes only what he chooses and is basically sloppy at best. But Sunstein actually says one truthful statement.
individuals in societies with systematically malfunctioning or skewed institutions of knowledge – say, individuals who live in an authoritarian regime lacking a free press-may have good reason to distrust all or most of the official denials they hear.
That is the U S of A for the last nine years, and why we distrust such fascists as Sunstein. We have no free press and we have a malfunctioning government. Corrupt Corporations only need to bribe a handful of politicians to give us an authoritarian regime that only helps the rich, and makes it a crime to be poor. That is what we got, and Sunstein wants to give us more of the same government approved skewed knowledge. How can the Government help skew knowledge you ask?
What can government do about conspiracy theories? Among the things it can do, what should it do? We can readily imagine a series of possible responses. (1) Government might ban conspiracy theorizing. (2) Government might impose some kind of tax, financial or otherwise, on those who disseminate such theories. (3) Government might itself engage in counterspeech, marshaling arguments to discredit conspiracy theories. (4) Government might formally hire credible private parties to engage in counterspeech. (5) Government might engage in informal communication with such parties, encouraging them to help.
Neo-cons favor (1) and (2). For at least eight years we have had (3) and (4), especially government war propaganda paid for by taxpayers. I do not expect our Billionaire Puppetmasters would ever approve (5) because the dueling narratives of Neo-con versus Reality based, are mutually inconsistent. Either the Niger Documents are forgeries, or Michael Ledeen is not an agent of Iran.
Either Al Qaeda wants nuclear weapons, or Marc Grossman was trying to sell them nuclear weapons. Either Bin Laden and Al Qaeda were financed by Pakistan and Saudi Arabia, or they were not. Either the destruction of the World Trade I and II were explosions, and WTC was a controlled demolition, or they were "pancake" collapses. Either Prince Bandar was following the 15 Saudi Arabian Hijackers with great precision or he was not. Either the Taliban is funded by Saudi Arabia and US Taxpayers, or it is not. Either there are thousands of pictures of a Flight 77 hitting the Pentagon or it was a UAV Drone. Either Chimpie George Bush saw the first attack against the North WTC Tower using extra sensory perception, or he saw it on special cable TV before anyone else saw it. Either the Government should not control and manipulate and falsify information or the Constitution is a Goddam piece of paper.
Some believe that the Bush administration deliberately spread a kind of false and unwarranted conspiracy theory – that Saddam Hussein conspired with Al Qaeda to support the 9/11 attacks. Suppose for discussion’s sake that this is so...
Some believe that! Perhaps because the Bushies conspired and lied for a war to profit the Rich, and Sunstein does not know if this is true. How stupid are you Cass? Suppose for discussion sake that you NOT a neo-con. Then you must be the STUPIDEST corporate shill at the University of Chicago. So is Sunstein Stupid, or is he a Liar? I vote that Sunstein is just a lying sack of crap.
One promising tactic is cognitive infiltration of extremist groups. By this we do not mean 1960s-style infiltration with a view to surveillance and collecting information, possibly for use in future prosecutions….Government agents (and their allies) might enter chat rooms, online social networks, or even real-space groups and attempt to undermine percolating conspiracy theories by raising doubts about their factual premises, causal logic or implications for political action….In another variant, government officials would participate anonymously or even with false identities…There is a similar tradeoff along another dimension: whether the infiltration should occur in the real world, through physical penetration of conspiracist groups by undercover agents, or instead should occur strictly in cyberspace. The latter is safer, but potentially less productive. The former will sometimes be indispensable, where the groups that purvey conspiracy theories (and perhaps themselves formulate conspiracies) formulate their views through real-space informational networks rather than virtual networks.whatever the tactical details, there would seem to be ample reason for government efforts to introduce some cognitive diversity into the groups that generate conspiracy theories.
But the real attack here is against critics of the 9-11 Commission. Any critic is a "Truther" and extremist and therefore NSA or Black/Zee can attack them with Cognitive Inflitration. Fewer and fewer people believe the lies of Philip Zelikow, Dietrich Snell, Jamie Gorelick or the other shills on the 9-11 Commission. The 9-11 Commission protected those officials whose incompetence allowed 9-11 to happen, which includes Gorelick and Snell. Or perhaps they wanted the 9-11 attacks to be successful. They secretly protected Al Qaeda, covered up the real story, and have been promoted. Snell actually wrote the false narrative of the 9-11 Report, without mentioning how
Snell himself protected the notorious terrorist "KSM". Gorelick suppressed evidence of the 9-11 attack months before it happened. Gorelick was promoted to the Fannie Mae, FNMA Corporation, where she did more lying and coverups, as she she helped to destroy the company.
Coleen Rowley is only one of many FBI agents who discovered Al Qaeda activities. Rowley’s supervisor David Frasca stopped her investigation, just as other FBI supervisors stopped other investigations, and these same supervisors continue to control the Al Qaeda coverups.
Public evidence suggests that Al Qaeda and Bin Laden were used for "covert" activities in the Chechnya and Bosnian wars, and of course Afghanistan. If this was true, that would be embarassing. But the secrets of Al Qaeda need to be concealed to protect the war profiteers and their Oil Wars. There is NO evidence of who actually made the decisions about Al Qaeda or the Irak War. We can assume based on circumstantial evidence that these are the same neo-cons who planned the Irak War and were controlled by the Cheney’s during the Bushie years. The WMD propaganda and Niger Forgeries were also controlled by this
same group of "Vulcans". These people have all been rewarded for their 9-11 failures and the failed wars in Irak and Afghanistan. Paul Wolfowitz got the Presidency of the World Bank and a $200,000 mistress (without paying income taxes). Gorelick, Snell, Zelikow, all promoted, and incompetent FBI supervisors such as Frasca, promoted. Of course Ali Mohamed, was promoted to the comfortable California suburbs by Patrick Fitzgerald.
I am guessing that taxpayers are already paying to cognitively infiltrate themselves. It is well known that all, ALL, including the tubes of the internet, electronic communication is monitored and recorded. Wayne Madsen reported that the NSA spies on journalists and government employees who question the official 9-11 narrative. If NSA is not spying on any ordinary citizens who are critics of the 9-11 Commission, then Sunstein will make sure that they do start spying.
During the 60′s COINTELPRO would inform employers about anti-war protestors to get them fired from jobs, and use other tools of espionage against American citizens. Sunstein did not discuss that conspiracy, but maybe he would like to try those tactics again.
Sunstein was appointed to be the director of the Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs. He now has the power to suppress 9-11 harmful conspirator theorists. Cass also now has the power to prevent any regulation of Corporations. He will be well rewarded by his Corporate patrons from the American Enterprise Institute. There is lots of hope and change at AEI.
The firing of Van Jones was due to the President giving right wingers what they want. This Administration does not even listen to its previously strongest supporters. I say previous because we were promised Hope and Change and Jobs and Health Care and Peace. We got nothing.
Sunstein reflects very badly on the Obama Administration, and the rot from Sunstein’s continued presence will stink more and more.



32 Comments

Great post, albeit depressing. Glenn Greenwald had a great post about Sunstein a while back on this very subject but unsurprisingly, it was greeted by crickets in the rest of the media.
Thanks, but depressing? I was trying to make Zelikow and Sunstein funny, because they deserve to be laughed at. I think Cass did make a mistake spotlighting “truthers” about 9-11. But he figured they are an easy target, start banning one “unpopular” group then go after the next group of dissidents. This may already be campaign issue in Texas of all places!
Applicable links:
Able Danger
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSTip84eIfw
Son of a Mossad founder Michael Chertoff, who was in charge of enforcement at the FBI on 9/11, compares 9/11 conspiracy theories to Holocaust denial:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KT5JZVUKPrs
Sunstein would approve!
How does stuff like this get published Bush offer the University some cash and a new George Bush Political Science building?
Nope just the Economics Dept and the Strauss followers who helped create the NeoCons. My Mom is ok:)
Maybe the solution to conspiracy theories is not repression but opposition I can throw a diary here or just say a comment and if people disagree we have a debate with links and snark but hopefully we don’t get personal.
The righty blogs seem to like getting personal and discourage debate.
Cass seems to be a Righty acting like a Righty would if we were putting out conspiracy theories.
That’s a little extreme the competition for that honor is fierce.
I vote for stupid,liar and selectively Cognitively Impaired meaning he only learns what he wants to.
You are deconstructing me! Cool.
Did Cass ever say anything pro or con about the 9/11 victims trying to sue the Saudis?
Maybe I’m missing it but how can Cass talk about people who believe in conspiracy theories without mentioning the corporate funded Right Wing Hate Machine that creates many of these rumors?
Divide and Conquer keep the poor Whites worried about Obama the Secret Muslim taking away their guns as he forces all America into a Gay Group Marriage.
Is Cass a Straussian tired of lying to the public who would just rather end debate? Never mind the obvious objection to Cass that who determines the truth? The Government doing that would of course be as one sided defending themselves as Glen Beck is.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leo_Strauss
I never knew that was deconstructing going over everything line by line with questions, comments and objections is just something I do:)
Cass has been talking to the Karl Rove Troll project PR guy. Actual experience on a blog would show yes a Troll can derail a thread however when was the last time a troll trying to
ever convinced a Lake Regular? I like Plunger a Lefty Conspiracy guy but he has not convinced me 9/11 was an inside job.
So how can a Righty Troll hope to convince me otherwise? Raising doubts about factual premises or logic tested in the often brutal Lake comments section leaves me better informed and armored than many a troll.
Since we win more than we lose because we are an open debating society we are much less likely to sweat a troll’s attempts to undermine us.
I’m sure Mr Spock is offended by the comparison. After all
http://www.nndb.com/people/100/000047956/
Sorry here’s the link.
Just found this after reading your link:
“Following his explosive account on the Abu Ghraib abuses, (Seymour) Hersh asserted that one of the Israel pursuits in the US-run prison was to gain access to the detained members of the Iraqi secret intelligence unit that specialized in Israeli affairs.”
Israeli hand in Iraq’s Abu Ghraib exposed
“In early winter, an incident occurred that was seared into my memory. A coworker and I were suddenly directed to go down to the Mall entrance to pick up some Israeli generals. Post-9/11 rules required one escort for every three visitors, and there were six or seven of them waiting. The Navy lieutenant commander and I hustled down. Before we could apologize for the delay, the leader of the pack surged ahead, his colleagues in close formation, leaving us to double-time behind the group as they sped to Undersecretary Feith’s office on the fourth floor. Two thoughts crossed our minds: are we following close enough to get credit for escorting them, and do they really know where they are going? We did get credit, and they did know. Once in Feith’s waiting room, the leader continued at speed to Feith’s closed door. An alert secretary saw this coming and had leapt from her desk to block the door. “Mr. Feith has a visitor. It will only be a few more minutes.” The leader craned his neck to look around the secretary’s head as he demanded, “Who is in there with him?””
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2004/jan/19/00027/
“Feith, whose law partner is a spokesman for the settlement movement in Israel, has long been a fierce opponent of the Oslo peace process, while WINEP has acted as the think tank for the most powerful pro-Israel lobby in Washington, the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), which generally follows a Likud line.”
http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0807-02.htm
Why would Israel want to deal with an obvious moron was it because they thought they could control him? Imagine if Israel backed smart people instead of the easily controlled before and after 9/11.
There is a good chance President Al Gore would have left Israel stronger no matter what he would have done after 9/11.
But when you send Bush and the NeoCons to do a job you must expect failure nomatter what the job.
President Gore would have included VP Lieberman.
Read about this first at Greenwald’s place. Glad to see it elaborated on here. I’ve had this strange feeling that Sunstein -ism has invaded some parts of the blogosphere. Could it be? Or is that a CT? And will I be visited by the U of C thought police? Or TR’d to extinction?
Ok that killed that idea
I think Cass is aware of and approves Karl’s troll project. Notice if Al gets in the news for anything good suddenly the trolls will appear on an Al thread even though they might have been on vacation for a week.
“Why would Israel want to deal with an obvious moron was it because they thought they could control him?”
Yes. Feith was #3 at the Pentagon, devoted to Israel, and Israel got everything it wanted out of him.
Also, Feith was just one of the many top guys seemingly devoted to Israel. Richard Perle was busted spying for Israel in 1970, but that didn’t stop him from chairing the Defense Policy board. Perle wrote the Clean Break paper for Bibi in ’97, a predecessor to the PNAC document and Philip Zelikow’s 2002 “National Security Strategy of the United States” document, aka the Bush Doctrine.
As I noted on my other thread, this Bush Doctrine document just tweaked a few things from a 1992 Feith/Wolfowitz document written for Sec Def Cheney.
It also mirrored Richard Perle’s Clean Break document written for Netanyahu, but presented the strategy as in America’s interest instead of Israel’s.
As Zelikow admitted later in 2002,
“Why would Iraq attack America or use nuclear weapons against us? I’ll tell you what I think the real threat (is) and actually has been since 1990 — it’s the threat against Israel,”
“And this is the threat that dare not speak its name, because the Europeans don’t care deeply about that threat, I will tell you frankly. And the American government doesn’t want to lean too hard on it rhetorically, because it is not a popular sell.”
Basically, the Bush Doctrine was just the Likud Doctrine, with Bush’s name slapped on it.
Now, Zelikow was the obstructionist Director of the 9/11 Commission, in addition to the author of the Bush Doctrine.
Other top pro-Israel fanatics and non-Jewish Neocons were in many of the most important positions in our defense establishment on 9/11.
I’ll leave it at that for right now.
Lebanese in Shock Over Arrest of an Accused Spy:
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/19/world/middleeast/19lebanon.html
“Mr. Jarrah has said he was recruited in 1983 — a year after Israel began a major invasion of Lebanon — by Israeli officers who had imprisoned him, according to investigators. He was offered regular payments in exchange for information about Palestinian militants and Syrian troop movements, they said.”
“From his home in this Bekaa Valley village, Mr. Jarrah, 50, traveled often to Syria and to south Lebanon, where he photographed roads and convoys that might have been used to transport weapons to Hezbollah, the Shiite militant group, investigators say. He spoke with his handlers by satellite phone, receiving “dead drops” of money, cameras and listening devices. Occasionally, on the pretext of a business trip, he traveled to Belgium and Italy, received an Israeli passport, and flew to Israel, where he was debriefed at length, investigators say.”
“It is not the family’s first brush with notoriety. One of Mr. Jarrah’s cousins, Ziad al-Jarrah, was among the 19 hijackers who carried out the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, though the men were 20 years apart in age and do not appear to have known each other well.”
http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/mossad_link_found_169.html
Watch the younger Jarrah, who was Westernized and engaged to a non-Muslim white German girl, try to keep a straight face while filming his martyr video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-6obQ5naNn0&feature=related
Keep in mind that his cousin was a top spy for Israel, and that the plane he piloted, Flight 93, was reported to have landed in Cleveland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQziDmMk88c
Sibel Edmonds interview:
http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/nov/01/00006/
Girardi: Let’s start with the first government official you identified, Marc Grossman, then the third highest-ranking official at the State Department.
Edmonds: Grossman became a person of interest early on in the investigative file while he was the U.S. ambassador to Turkey [1994-97], when he became personally involved with operatives both from the Turkish government and from suspected criminal groups. He also had suspicious contact with a number of official and non-official Israelis. Grossman was removed from Turkey short of tour during a scandal referred to as “Susurluk” by the media. It involved a number of high-level criminals as well as senior army and intelligence officers with whom he had been in contact.
GIRALDI: So Grossman at this point comes back to the United States. He’s rewarded with the third-highest position at the State Department, and he allegedly uses this position to do favors for “Turkish interests”—both for the Turkish government and for possible criminal interests. Sometimes, the two converge.
…
GIRALDI: What kind of information was Grossman giving to foreign countries? Did he give assistance to foreign individuals penetrating U.S. government labs and defense installations as has been reported? It’s also been reported that he was the conduit to a group of congressmen who become, in a sense, the targets to be recruited as “agents of influence.”
EDMONDS: Yes, that’s correct. Grossman assisted his Turkish and Israeli contacts directly, and he also facilitated access to members of Congress who might be inclined to help for reasons of their own or could be bribed into cooperation. The top person obtaining classified information was Congressman Tom Lantos. A Lantos associate, Alan Makovsky worked very closely with Dr. Sabri Sayari in Georgetown University, who is widely believed to be a Turkish spy. Lantos would give Makovsky highly classified policy-related documents obtained during defense briefings for passage to Israel because Makovsky was also working for the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC).
GIRALDI: Makovsky is now working for the Washington Institute for Near Eastern Policy, a pro-Israeli think tank.
EDMONDS: Yes. Lantos was at the time probably the most outspoken supporter of Israel in Congress. AIPAC would take out the information from Lantos that was relevant to Israel, and they would give the rest of it to their Turkish associates.
GIRALDI: So the network starts with a person like Grossman in the State Department providing information that enables Turkish and Israeli intelligence officers to have access to people in Congress, who then provide classified information that winds up in the foreign embassies?
EDMONDS: Absolutely. And we also had Pentagon officials doing the same thing. We were looking at Richard Perle and Douglas Feith. They had a list of individuals in the Pentagon broken down by access to certain types of information. Some of them would be policy related, some of them would be weapons-technology related, some of them would be nuclear-related. Perle and Feith would provide the names of those Americans, officials in the Pentagon, to Grossman, together with highly sensitive personal information: this person is a closet gay; this person has a chronic gambling issue; this person is an alcoholic. The files on the American targets would contain things like the size of their mortgages or whether they were going through divorces. One Air Force major I remember was going through a really nasty divorce and a child custody fight. They detailed all different kinds of vulnerabilities.
GIRALDI: So they were doing favors for other reasons. Both Feith and Perle were lobbyists for Turkey and also were involved with Israel on defense contracts, including some for Northrop Grumman, which Feith represented in Israel.
EDMONDS: They had arrangements with various companies, some of them members of the American Turkish Council. They had arrangements with Kissinger’s group, with Northrop Grumman, with former secretary of state James Baker’s group, and also with former national security adviser Brent Scowcroft.
The monitoring of the Turks picked up contacts with Feith, Wolfowitz, and Perle in the summer of 2001, four months before 9/11. They were discussing with the Turkish ambassador in Washington an arrangement whereby the U.S. would invade Iraq and divide the country. The UK would take the south, the rest would go to the U.S.
GIRALDI: You also have information on al-Qaeda, specifically al-Qaeda in Central Asia and Bosnia. You were privy to conversations that suggested the CIA was supporting al-Qaeda in central Asia and the Balkans, training people to get money, get weapons, and this contact continued until 9/11…
EDMONDS: Okay. So these conversations, between 1997 and 2001, had to do with a Central Asia operation that involved bin Laden. Not once did anybody use the word “al-Qaeda.” It was always “mujahideen,” always “bin Laden” and, in fact, not “bin Laden” but “bin Ladens” plural. There were several bin Ladens who were going on private jets to Azerbaijan and Tajikistan. The Turkish ambassador in Azerbaijan worked with them.
There were bin Ladens, with the help of Pakistanis or Saudis, under our management. Marc Grossman was leading it, 100 percent, bringing people from East Turkestan into Kyrgyzstan, from Kyrgyzstan to Azerbaijan, from Azerbaijan some of them were being channeled to Chechnya, some of them were being channeled to Bosnia. From Turkey, they were putting all these bin Ladens on NATO planes. People and weapons went one way, drugs came back.
This is where you’ve been heading? A giant conspiracy controlling the nation and murdering anyone and everyone to further tighten its merciless grip?
A merciless grip is being tightened, but it’s made up of a rainbow of soulless traitors.
But this should be enough to make even your hair stand on end:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JWpWc_suPWo
Cass Sunstein, Rahm and several others are pushing our nation hard to “move on, next chapter, turn the page, time to look forward”…”don’t be about vengeance, retribution, witch hunts”
They sound like they have been attending classes by Rove or Leo Strauss. “the means justify the end” “noble lie’ crowd.
Really want to know at what point did holding individuals accountable for very serious crimes starte being defined as ‘retribution” instead of justice and application of the law?
Our Reps have gone from hunting down a President for lying under oath about blowjobs to allowing the lying warmongers to get away with an intelligence snowjob.
One would think that the hundreds of thousands dead and injured in Iraq, the millions displaced. The 45oo dead Americans and 50,ooo and counting injured would be enough to motivate these people in power to hold those who lied and tortured accountable. That would be the very least they could do for those who have needlessly lost their lives based on a “pack of lies”
Hold on, is this the same Cass Sunstein who wrote the book, “The Second Bill of Rights: Franklin Delano Roosevelt’s Unfinished Revolution and Why We Need It More Than Ever”?
Here’s the Glenn Greenwald column on Sunstein
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/01/15/sunstein/
“So Sunstein isn’t calling right now for proposals (1) and (2) — having Government “ban conspiracy theorizing” or “impose some kind of tax on those who” do it — but he says “each will have a place under imaginable conditions.” I’d love to know the “conditions” under which the government-enforced banning of conspiracy theories or the imposition of taxes on those who advocate them will “have a place.” That would require, at a bare minumum, a repeal of the First Amendment. Anyone who believes this should, for that reason alone, be barred from any meaningful government position.”
-emphasis added
Yup. Cass Sunstein is always looking for a parade to jump out in front of and claim to lead.
Frank, I’m very happy that both of our posts made the front page. It says a lot about the FDL community. It’s legit!
I get treated decently. But some of your topics about that nine hundred pound gorilla 9-11, have been noted by commentators here for a while. We should get a list of which websites do censor 9-11 discussion.
I was banned from Talking Points Memo after being a regular for more than a year.
Josh “Senate HCR Bill” Marshall thinks any deviation from the official 9/11 script is a sign of mental illness.