With the Justice Department release of the CIA memos long touted by Dick Cheney as the proof that being a sick, venal, twisted fuck enhanced interrogation torture worked/saved American lives/got us meaningful intelligence, you knew that Vice President Cankles had to say something—so that there is this statement (made to the Weekly Standard) is not a surprise:
The documents released Monday clearly demonstrate that the individuals subjected to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques provided the bulk of intelligence we gained about al Qaeda. This intelligence saved lives and prevented terrorist attacks. These detainees also, according to the documents, played a role in nearly every capture of al Qaeda members and associates since 2002. The activities of the CIA in carrying out the policies of the Bush Administration were directly responsible for defeating all efforts by al Qaeda to launch further mass casualty attacks against the United States. The people involved deserve our gratitude. They do not deserve to be the targets of political investigations or prosecutions. President Obama’s decision to allow the Justice Department to investigate and possibly prosecute CIA personnel, and his decision to remove authority for interrogation from the CIA to the White House, serves as a reminder, if any were needed, of why so many Americans have doubts about this Administration’s ability to be responsible for our nation’s security.
What is a surprise, however, is how lazy and transparent Dick’s obfuscation has gotten:
The documents released Monday clearly demonstrate that the individuals subjected to Enhanced Interrogation Techniques provided the bulk of intelligence we gained about al Qaeda.
That folks like Khalid Sheikh Mohammed provided intel is really not the point in dispute, is it now? What is argued is whether torture was necessary to extract information, if whether any credible intelligence obtained came from traditional, lawful, moral methods. The preponderance of evidence says the torture was at best superfluous, and quite possibly counterproductive—and every successive release of documents has served to reinforce this. And, with this statement, Cheney more or less admits as much.
If these documents had within them that evidence that torture saved lives, we’d have seen it; if Dead-Eye Dick truly believed that torturing his so-called high-value detainees directly produced the intelligence that stopped attacks, this would be the time for him to say so.
He clearly doesn’t. In fact, he goes out of his way not to. In fact, on a second and third reading, I would go so far as to say that Cheney doesn’t even say that the information obtained helped prevent attacks—he merely says that it “provided the bulk of the intelligence we gained about al Qaeda.” According to Dick, it was the actions of the “CIA in carrying out the policies of the Bush Administration were directly responsible” for preventing “mass casualty attacks.” The statement doesn’t even try to link those actions to the intel, torture or no.
That’s quite a workaround. . . and quite a walk-back. And that’s the big takeaway from what would otherwise be another forgettable, fearmongering blast from the mastermind of America’s moral debasement. Torture might have gotten Cheney excited, but it didn’t do dick.



60 Comments




And of course the TradMed will lap it up and repeat it unquestioningly.
Since Cheney stopped trying, now can we try Cheney? Please? In court?
I’m surprised it took him this long…
I think a very compelling argument could be made that his methods of information gathering caused unwarranted and unnecessary delays in getting at good information that might’ve saved thousands of lives lost in Iraq, Iran, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon, Pakistan, Occupied Palestine, and other fields of military action. Certainly, this could be introduced at his trial.
and of course, we will never know how much information was lost because of these techniques, how many assets wasted, how many sources lost, how many insurgents recruited, how many sympathizers to our cause turned, how much longer unrest would prevail….the list is endless
Yes, We can!
ooops, sorry that logo spoken for…
Let’s see: Will it be wearing a prison jumpsuit or faking his own heart attack? Either way, Tricky Dicky is done.
I have a fantasy, that dick cheney’s name becomes and expression just like benedict arnolds, that of a traitor and that his ancestors are forced to change their name to avoid the embarassment of admitting he is their fore father
It seems too much time and energy has been put into the torture issue by you people.
You torture the bad guys. You don’t torture the good guys or the ones you’re not sure about. This ain’t rocket science.
Even Obama and Holder are waking up to the fact their are wasting political capital and more importantly, time.
Once the decision to “destroy the tapes” (aka prima facie evidence) is investigated as coming from Dicky himself, his crime will be “obstruction of justice” just as Nixon’s was.
Dick Cheney will one day be in jail.
It’s my understanding, as well, that lives were probably lost simply as a result of his notorious outing of Valerie Plame. This point, alone, should have him in the dock.
…as in tinfoil hats?
Surely you jest and I beg to differ since these crimes have not only destroyed the people’s belief in the Bush Administration but have besmerched america’s reputation internationally. Once this investigation is over, if these criminals are not in prison, then the International court will work their magic and they will be.
Frankly, I find your trivialization of these crimes to be quite ignorant and laughable. If these crimes go unpunished, this country will be doomed to failure. We can ONLY move forward by investigating these horrors fully.
I’d like you to attempt to explain your “good guy/bad guy theory” sometime too because it sounds pretty subjective to me and, therefore, pretty lame and inane.
I think everyone is jumping a little too soon, cheney hasn’t stopped fighting yet and one of or all or the following is about to happen
1) he goes on torture tour deforce part duex
2) he sends mini dick on torture tour
3) he sends wife dick on torutre tour
4) krystol…ditto
5) hannnity…ditto
6) limbaugh…errr…ditto
7) etc
It would seem the One Percent Doctrine may have at long last met the Seven Percent Solution… has Dick finally submerged into some sort of slimy, self-administered delirium? Secret Honor, Secret Honor…
Absolutely!
Oh joy, more troll bogeys.
Hard to say. The more Dick & minions talk, the more they hurt the R party for the midterms — and the health debate.
How do you rate the raping of women and the torture of children which this IG report alludes to? Would these people be the “bad guys” in your very simple little world? And who gets to make the decision of precisely whom the “good guys” actually are? You?
Bush/Cheney should have been our very own homegrown “good guys” but now we know the contrary. So, along those lines, it would be fine to torture Bush and Cheney and every enabling GOP Congressman who aided and abetted this torture policy?
Nice going, tinman!
actually, you torture nobody if you want actionable information, torture gets you less then the other methods
and you torture if you WANT insurgency, if you DON’T want to “win the hearts and minds of the Iraqi’s” as bush made believe our goal
and you torture if you WANT more insurgents, WANT more terrorist attacks
for each person you torture all their family, all their friends, all their friends friends become your enemy as well…unless you didn’t know it, consider how you would react
AND you torture if “winning” is the last thing you want to do
as far as obama “wasting political capotol” you have it backwards, he has squandered it BY not prosecuting these traitors, those who made our goal almost impossible to achieve, which by the way WAS their goal, unending war, war profiteer is what they ddo
troll…fed
tinman,
You don’t torture anyone, good guy, bad guy, whatever.
Until Cheney/Bush came along, that was embedded in the US culture. With Cheney/Bush, the US adopted Hollywood fiction, “24″, as our foreign policy and we tortured, and without conscience, apparently.
You betcha! Sing on GOP…..the more these complicit GOP Senators disavow a legitimate investigation, the more each of them becomes involved. This will eviscerate the GOP for 2010 like nothing else.
Ironically, today as well, is the release of the Sibel Edmunds testimony about Dennis Hastert who vanished into thin air and his treasonous affairs with the Turks…..this is a huge bombshell about to hit the GOP this week as well.
Advice for the GOP: Duck and cover.
Let’s freeze out the troll – tinman’s intelligence level qualifies him as one to ignore.
After watching this notorious liar and criminal spred his sleazy lies in our faces for 8 years ad nauseum, people will surely dance in the streets when he is finally put where he belongs: in prison for the remainder of his life.
History books will read….Benedict Arnold, Dick Cheney, George Bush, Alberto Gonzales
Considering that the information that they forced out using EIT was the same that was forced in, Cheney’s statement is technically correct.
Are there any estimates as to how many people were recruited into AQ while these clowns were playing 24.
I have written before, Obama is either read into the program and essentially blackmailed, or he was a dishonest person and sold us a bill of goods.
If he is as intelligent as the readers of this blog he would draw the same conclusion that those who post and comment here do. If he doesn’t he is derelict in his duty and hiding from the facts or see above.
His actions and his comments seem to indicate that he acting bizarre.
we even had testimony from those in interrogation that when they told Cheney “there is no link between al qaeada and Saddam” Cheney insist they continue “interrogating” until they get an “admission” that there was
good post right there sander0
If I were addressing the troll, I might ask it what exactly it thought was the point in torturing the bad guys, what goal it thought torturing served. The troll would then be in the position of saying essentially either (a) to get information, or (b) to disincentivize being a bad guy, or (c) to punish. The response to (a) or (b) is that that never works; the response to (b) or (c) is that in the absence of a trial we’d have no sure way of knowing we’d be punishing the right guy, and the blowback from torturing the wrong guy has proven to be perhaps the main cause of further attacks. So contraindicated.
There is another possibility. In his position, he is isolated from reality and is considerably LESS informed than those who post and commnent here. His version of reality imerely reflects the fantasy world that is presented in his daily CIA briefs.
What I just said in #24.
I have to question his reading comprehension.
here’s the thing Hmmm;
everyone knows when you have policies of torture you want unrest, that’s the only purpose, it’s not to gather information it’s to create fear and hatred among the people whom land you occupy
that’s the only reason you initiate policies of torture, of course if you want information you know false, that’s another reason you torture
but when you are occupying a land, if that occupation is to be successful and by invitation, of course you need to be seen a benefactor, the moment you are seen as torturers you will never be seen a benefactor
this is what they wanted, and why?
because they were told Iraq had more prime oil reserves then saudi arabia itself, that’s why…to steal their national treasure for a resource that will be obsolete in a generation
and not to produce more oil but to restrict production and thus control price
Harry Truman was a different kind of President. He probably made as many important decisions regarding our nation’s history as any of the other 43 Presidents. However, a measure of his greatness may rest on what he did after he left the White House.
The only asset he had when he died was the house he lived in, which was in Independence Missouri . His wife had inherited the house from her mother and other than their years in the
White House, they lived their entire lives there.
When he retired from office in 1952, his income was a U.S. Army pension reported to have been $13,507.72 a year. Congress, noting that he was paying for his stamps and personally licking them, granted him an ‘allowance’ and, later, a retroactive pension of $25,000 per year..
After President Eisenhower was inaugurated, Harry and Bess drove home to Missouri by themselves. There were no Secret Service following them.
When offered corporate positions at large salaries, he declined, stating, “You don’t want me. You want the office of the President, and that doesn’t belong to me. It belongs to the American people and it’s not for sale.”
Even later, on May 6, 1971, when Congress was preparing to award him the Medal of Honor on his 87th birthday, he refused to accept it, writing, “I don’t consider that I have done anything which should be the reason for any award, Congressional or otherwise.”
As president he paid for all of his own travel expenses and food.
Modern politicians have found a new level of success in cashing in on the Presidency, resulting in untold wealth. Today, many in Congress also have found a way to become quite wealthy while enjoying the fruits of their offices. Political offices are now for sale. (sic. Illinois)
Good old Harry Truman was correct when he observed, “My choices in life were either to be a piano player in a whore house or a politician. And to tell the truth, there’s hardly any difference!
I say dig him up and clone him!!
Also question the kinds of people he allows himself to be surrounded by.
I don’t think he is in such a bubble. Bush was for sure. But that would mean he has no idea that 75% of the people demand a public option and most want single payer. He has to know that “fact” and he is in denial if he can’t connect the dots.
What do the people know that he doesn’t? They have spilled it all out
What does he know that the people don’t? He has obfuscated.
You don’t torture anybody, it is not a tool of any value, morally, subjectively, or objectively.
And if you are a soldier of a country that employs it, that soldier also runs the risk of quid pro quo, what comes around goes around.
So, Tinman, there is never an argument in the affirmative for torture, only monsters use it, is that what you are? I should add that I really don’t think that is what you are. I should also add that what you do to one you do to all.
OK…OK….you gave me something to think about.
Thanks.
Nice remembrance of Harry. However you left out that he was the only person in history to authorize the launching of atomic weapons on civilian populations, at a time when the end of the war with Japan was in sight without the use of the bomb.
I am impressed tinman
thanx for the post, you made my day
Thanks, Gregg.
Looks like I’m gonna be singing Stephanie Miller’s “Lying sack of crap” song a lot today.
And any bets on how much of the M$M WON’T be reporting DeadEye’s statement as gospel?
FunnyWheelieDiva
I failed to qualify my statement. I was strictly referring to his involvement with national security issues, in which he is totally reliant on the briefs he is fed by others.
Regarding domestic affairs he does have a handle on the pulse of America and surely wants to please the 75%. He just needs to use his Chicago skills to pull it off.
Jus Cogens!
We can also thank Harry for the CIA.
Of course you’re right. I was focused on the troll’s likely reasons for wanting to approve of torture, and from its writing didn’t think going on to Chapter 2 of the lesson — as you have done so completely yet admirably concisely — would be of any use here.
heh heh, good one.
If you count all of the ludicrous plots KSM confessed to, then that sure was a bulk of intelligence … “gained” about al Qaeda.
but yeah, was it really “gained?” if they coached him on it?
Glenn Greenwald has a couple great posts up today, in which he does not explicitly harsh on the Democratic Party, so have a look, firepups! Greenwald has good troll squelching points, as well.
I am not a reporter. I rely on the sources I choose to read and read between the lines. I am like most people. In that sense Obama is no different. He gets his info in briefings and I suppose he reads the main papers or gets summaries including the Op Eds and editorials.
All pols are watching the polls informal and formal.
Hard to believe that Obama could remain so sheltered from “reality” and not know it.
Re Dick Cheney “. . . being a sick, venal, twisted f**k.”
It seems like only yesterday when, appropos of Glenn Beck, people on this blog were railing against “purveyor[s] of hate.”
Oh wait, it WAS only yesterday.
Guess our threshold for the purveyance of hate kind of shifts around, eh?
You just proved my point. If you got all your news from the MSM, would you consider yourself truly informed?
He does not have the opportunity to hear the dissenting voices, which more often then not are closer to “reality” than what’s in the corporate-controlled media.
Well I may not always agree with everything you progressives believe, I have always found you dig deep into the issues. That I value.
I do not know where you get all your time.
We think fast.
Obviously.
Cheney never saved or participated in the saving of any human life. The notion that Cheney’s approval of and use of torture for the supposed saving of those who happen to live in the US is an absurdity. Instead, Cheney has directly participated in the needless slaughter of those who happen to live in Iraq. It just goes back to the same old question. Who has more drunken driving convictions, Cheney or Bush?
props to the tinfellow for engaging with the engagement.
Ya gota give some props to BA. He was a war hero who was cheated out of his command by Ethan Allen who took credit for BA military victories; in EA’s short notes he sent to members of congress, who helped to decide which gentlemen to promote.
Yea he’s a trader, but dude had his life stolen from him, he wasn’t a psychopath like Cheney.
O-Geo, duuuuude, not only was BA a trader, he was also a . . . darn, what’s the word . . . shoot, now I can’t think of it . . . something to do with treesin’ or somethin’ . . . well, whatever. Guess I had too much inhale, man.
Never mind.
Doesn’t. Matter.
‘Successful’ torture is every bit as illegal as ‘unsuccessful’ torture.
Whoops! His descendants, surely. For his ancestors, it’s too late. Anyone know what surname his grandson has.
Cheney has nothing to worry about. Henry Kissinger should tell him about shit, hills and gravity.
Send “Pricky Dick” Cheney to the Hague!