Actual arrest starts at about 14 minutes in, or you can watch a shorter version of the video here.
Photos of Kelly before and after he was murdered by Fullerton police.
Today was the first day of the preliminary hearing to determine whether there is enough evidence to try Fullerton, CA police officers Manuel Ramos and Jay Cicinelli in the July 5, 2011 beating death of Kelly Thomas, a 37-year-old homeless schizophrenic man. For those of you not familiar with this story, wikipedia offers a number of links. The surveillance video was released for the first time today, along with gruesome photos of what Kelly looked like after Manuel Ramos made good on his promise to “fuck him up” with his latex-covered fists.
But here’s all you really need to know. Kelly, a gentle soul who posed zero – let me repeat that - zero - threat to police or the community, was tortured for more than five minutes and then left in the gutter to die. By six fat fucking pigs (sorry, but I am not going to mince words here) who beat him with their sticks, tased him, suffocated him. And then called paramedics to come and give them bandaids for their scratches while Kelly lay forgotten.
A fire department captain testified today that until he arrived, nothing was being done for Kelly, who by then was unconscious (he never regained consciousness; his parents took him off life support five days later):
Capt. Rob Stancyk of the Fullerton Fire Department testified that seven or eight Fullerton police officers were standing around a bus depot when paramedics arrived, about 15 feet from Thomas, who he said was lying on the ground.
“Nothing was being done,” Stancyk said.
Stancyk testified that initially the officers on the scene were complaining about their injuries, but that then he turned and saw Thomas on the ground, barely breathing.
I watched the short version of this video (haven’t made it through the long one yet; afraid I will puke). And I saw a big thug begin to humiliate and threaten someone who didn’t stand a chance, someone who was going to get the crap beat out of him no matter what he said, no matter whether he figured out how to comply with the thug’s orders or not.
My recent interactions with cops at Occupy have given me this sixth sense for when they are about to get out of control. You can feel it coming. They turn into animals. They pile on. There are six grown men here and every single one of them does nothing but make the situation worse. They should all be charged with Kelly’s death.
I have never held cops in much regard; my mother was a police dispatcher in a small town and she used to get them to follow me around, back when I was a juvenile delinquent. Now that I am a grown-up delinquent, I like them even less. I know there have always been bad cops (Mr. HFC watches Police Story reruns every night and it’s a running theme), but it seems like now there are so few good ones. Or at least any that will draw the line at nearly beating to death a skinny, homeless man calling out for his dad, and then leaving him to die while they lick their wounds. Any one of those fucking monsters could have attempted to calm the situation and make sure that Kelly was able to breathe. Are they really that big of pussies that it takes all six of them to arrest someone?
I’d also like to challenge the idea that the minute the police make contact with you, you somehow become their slave and you must do every single thing they say to keep from being beaten to death. Go limp, don’t struggle, even with six thugs sitting on you and twisting your limbs around. Try to imagine what your reaction might be to a cop telling you he’s going to fuck you up with his fists, when you’ve never posed any threat to him. Try to imagine the terror you must feel when he calls in his fellow subhumans and they beat you and tase you and wrestle you to the ground and sit on you. Now add some mental illness to the mix.
And people wonder why we have a weekly Fuck the Police march here in Oakland.



61 Comments

Yeah, the Oakland PD needs a Federal investigation into them.
OPD already is being monitored by the feds, who are not happy with them.
And people still like to believe there is a god?
One of the most upsetting videos I’ve seen. Horrific.
I know. My husband said, don’t make people watch that. And I thought about it, but I felt like it was so representative of what I have seen lately that I couldn’t let it go by. It’s not an isolated incident; it’s what happens to homeless people and mentally ill people and people of color. And unless enough people get out in the streets and complain, then the murderers of Kelly Thomas and Oscar Grant and Trayvon Martin are never held accountable.
This shit has got to stop.
Any one watching that video is witnessing a murder. It has to stop.
I agree that it definitely needed posting. I tweeted it, in fact. People need to see what constitutes “law enforcement” in America in 2012.
In ABQ, the police have been on a killing spree for the last 2 years. I was at the City Council tonight, and there are a dozen or more people who go to every meeting and hold signs up and pictures of their loved ones who have been killed by the police. We have more police killings than the police in NYC, a city 8 times our size.
Yes – it’s shameful. And as bgrothus says above, it’s not just big cities, it’s happening at every level.
What kind of subhuman does this! I fear for my children!
The scariest thing to me is that there were six of them. And then, according to some other articles I’ve seen today, perhaps even a couple more who came and stood around and did not attend to Kelly’s injuries.
Sounds like the typical american attitude carried out by the thugs wearing the uniform abroad as well as here.
Shame on those murdering cops. Six sociopathic pigs against one scared human being. Shame on them.
Maybe the most horrible video I’ve ever seen. But this is what the police have become post-911. They are all defenders of the Fatherland, and we are all scum that deserve to be exterminated. This will not end well. Recommended, just because it is necessary that folks open their eyes.
Exactly. Someone at the Council meeting last night said, “The police don’t get enough credit when they do the right thing. The latest ‘victim’ of the police was a known gang member and heroin addict.”
Like that is some justification for police to kill citizens. No need for a crime to be committed, or for a trial, just executions.
It’s all part of the militarization of the military. It won’t be long before they begin wearing brown shirts.
It’s come to this. To paraphrase John Lennon, “Civilians (aka innocents) are the n—– if the world.”
“…and heroin addict.””
Thank you for this article, horrific, but I believe that everyone should read it.
On the above quoted point. Thank you so much for making this point. Sadly, in this country, today, at this moment, there are people who actually believe that [insert any addiction here except alcohol or tobacco] are reasons for cold-blooded execution in the street.
I do not believe in the death penalty, but I do believe that the people responsible for this murder should never see the light of day. Some people belong in prison, and these folks are prison poster children.
I will be watching for probable cause. You watch, they won’t find probable cause for that, but by God they’ll lock people up for rolling papers.
No matter what they do or don’t do, it won’t bring Kelly back. The police officer will sleep just fine tonight, while the man’s family will have a lifetime of pain.
Recommended.
I’ve watched this video with a critical eye to the rules, regulations, and procedures that I’m aware of in the LE world. This escalated from a potential arrest to something entirely outside the law when the first officer said ‘You see my fist? I’m about to fuck you up with it’.
This first officer, and subsequently 5 more, beat this man to death. I can’t imagine there is any justification they can successfully offer in court.
The use of the taser was excessive and improper, both in duration and deployment. The use of batons to force submission was improper. The suspected was already subdued, even though still struggling. Striking him repeatedly on the head in that situation is illegal.
At one point I swear I heard one of the crowd of cops on top of Kelly Thomas say ‘choke him out’. Then someone tried to choke him out.
There are just so many things wrong here.
As I said above, I watched this with a critical eye. I’m not prone to being a sensationalist when it comes to police. I’ve had numerous arrest and control tactic trainings from none other than Oakland PD.
What happened above was not an arrest, nor a true attempt to control a suspect. They flat fucking beat this man to death for being in their path. They went there looking for a fight, started one, and executed Kelly Thomas.
This, from me too.
BTW, from wiki, although one of the officers claimed Thomas was “on something,” he had no drugs or alcohol in his system.
Being a defense attorney has got to be difficult sometimes. There must be instances where such an attorney might say something like, “You know what? I can’t defend you. I hate you. I really really hate you, and so, you are going to just have to find someone else to defend you.”
I understand why you’ve called them ‘pigs’; they deserve no other appellation, imo, and face it: they were also fat for cops, and what used to be weight limits, at least around here.
I keep staring at this white space, hoping its emptiness might cause any cogent thoughts to bubble up. Ten minutes, nope; nada.
Okay, questions then. Were the pigs mugging for each other and encouraging each other to establish a false narrative that Kelly was so out of control they had to smother him, tase him repeatedly, and smash him to oblivion? One of the most frightening examples of ‘constructed reality’ I’ve ever witnessed, because it seems to have been so. Almost as though in some place buried deep within them, they either knew they were committing evil and needed to justify it, and if they could get the other pigs to agree, they could rest easier with their TINA self-deceptions. Or they were claiming so knowing that every sick smash, bash, tase, smothering choke-hold …was on camera, and they were mugging for the camera defensively.
But yes; as one of the authors said: it’s almost beyond belief that the tape was still in existence, and finally produced. What is up with that, seriously?
One-eyed Ramos…shit; there may be some keys to his psychology leading to this stuck in all that history, but this lengthy sadism was a group effort, group ethos, and the conclusions we’re forced to draw are making me ill with visceral reactions. Half of me wishes we could have heard the inter-pig conversations, half…glad not to have for now. The existence of the film on which ‘freckles on a face could be seen’: again: could I/we handle seeing it? Should we anyway? Not today, when forced to come to grips with sociopaths in authority destroying a fellow human with such violence and apparent satisfaction.
This video on the heels of the others is almost as upsetting to me, carol.
We’re told that 50 people stood and watched. Fifty fellow human beings. No one helped; no one tried to rally the 50 to help, and that’s a hard thing for me to absorb. I won’t even list the stupid ways I’ve leapt into frays breaking up fights, and only by grace sometimes granted to idiots, survived real harm. Again: stupid, unthinking, but reflexive.
But some of the watchers in that video seemed to be almost busy narrating the beating like they’d be calling a horserace or boxing match; goddam, that was sick. I’m not saying they wouldn’t be risking a lot by interceding, but shouldn’t we be asking how THEY COULD NOT?
Rec’d in pain and grief,
wd
This is yet another example of what some cops will do when they think they can beat someone to death, or almost to death, and escape responsibility for their crime by lying about what happened.
In this case, as in the Rodney King case long ago, there was a video that recorded what happened. The video in this case was taken by a security surveillance camera positioned on a pole high above the ground at the Fullerton Transportation Center. The officers obviously failed to notice it, but if they had, we have no reason to believe they would not have moved to a location beyond the range of the cameras where they could go about their deadly business in private.
This type of incident happens far more often than most people realize and the best defense we have against it is the video camera in our cell phones.
PS, Mason claims that that is actually a movie plot (And Justice For All), where Al Pacino, whose client is a judge charged with sexual assault, has a meltdown and claims his client is guilty in open court.
Pretty similar to what I might say, if I had to defend these hideous cops who somehow rub shoulders with the passing public and blend in like human beings.
Here’s Al Pacino’s speech to the jury that every criminal defense attorney with a conscience has fantasized about doing at least once . . .
Thanks to everybody for watching this and for caring, even though it is very, very painful; you feel the blows yourself.
Yes, ADC14 and SharonMI, it is us against them now; we are the scum, the n— they are paid to control and, if necessary, exterminate. And if we’re weak or confused, too bad for us; they hate us worse for that.
Kris, thanks for that analysis; that’s what I thought as a “civilian.” There is simply no justification for any of it, and I can’t imagine that even the most cop-respecting, law-and-order type could find one.
Which leads me to Crane-Station and Mason – yeah, they always try to find some pretense of drugs or other illegal activity to hide behind. The Al Pacino clip made me laugh, and I haven’t laughed since I watched this video, so thanks for that. Some poor defense attorney is going to have to defend those savages and try to sleep at night.
Wendy – I had to write the diary quick or else I was going to withdraw from this and try to forget it. Mr. HFC said I wouldn’t get too many comments – WTF is there to say? I’m glad you read some of the links and found that other video. I vaguely remember that video of the crowd “narrating” the murder when it first happened, but I purposely tried not to pay attention [edited to add: so back then I was nearly as guilty as the crowd, because I turned away; thankfully the citizens of OC ultimately chose to confront it].
This is where being an Occupier might have come in handy. When the cops are beating someone, we gather around as tightly as possible and scream at the cops and yell “shame, shame” and if they are really hurting someone – which is often the case – some brave soul will try to “unarrest” the victim. I suppose it is somewhat futile; of course they have enough force to beat and kill us all if they decide to. And there have been many arrested for interfering with a cop. But on other occasions we have forced them back and confused them, shown them to be the sociopaths they are, maybe made one or two of them think, did I really just grab a 100-pound-woman by the hair and bash her face into the ground for trying to serve food to the homeless? Or maybe not. But at least we are learning to do something, to not allow this to happen to our brothers and sisters without a fight.
Oh, as someone who struggles with being fat, I don’t throw that word around casually. But the difference in size between Ramos and Kelly is so evident, I couldn’t help it.
In mulling this over now for more than an hour I’ve come to a conclusion. The officer seen on the video striking Kelly Thomas repeatedly, in the head, while Kelly Thomas was on the ground!!! will be convicted.
California police departments follow a simple guideline – If an officer gives a command and the suspect fails to comply the officer is allowed to use force to bring the suspect into compliance.
This guideline does not offer latitude for lethal force. You cannot use your gun to bring someone into compliance of a vocal command. You cannot use your baton in a lethal manner to bring someone into compliance.
I fear that this is the distinction that will be drawn in court. The officer who hit Kelly in the head at least a dozen times while he was on the ground will be found guilty of a lesser murder charge, maybe manslaughter (as Johanes Meserlhe [sp?] was in the case of Oscar Grant).
Now if we were sticking with California law as it is applied to civilians? All 6 of those officers are guilty of 2nd degree murder.
This is a travesty. Not only is this man dead, his blood on the hands of at least 6 supposed ‘peace’ officers. Justice will not be carried out.
As OWS has shined a larger spotlight than ever on police violence I’ve begun to not just loose respect for police as a whole, but begun to hate them.
I’m hoping that OWS has had that effect on everyone, including people who have never had any sort of encounter with police. It’s easy to disregard or make up some story in your head about why a “criminal” or an anarchist or a DFH might get whaled on by the cops, but the police gang has expanded its territory and now the average citizen might feel a little more at risk. All it takes is an unpaid traffic ticket for them to strip search you, after all. So I think it’s becoming easier for people to imagine it happening to them.
The other thing I wanted to mention is that California laws allow for people who are involved in crimes, but were not the shooter, for instance, to be convicted of murder – if I am not mistaken. Every one of these cops should go down, but of course they won’t. They have picked out the two who will have to take one for the team. And I bet you’re right – it will be something less than second degree murder, which is what Ramos is charged with.
You’re right about CA law. If you are present at or have knowledge of a violent crime and do nothing to prevent it then you are equally culpable in the crime. With murder this extends to all parties involved in the commission or cover-up of the crime.
Ramos is the cop doing the striking? Who is the other officer on trial, and what was his part?
The charges:
A very thorough article from the Daily Mail:
What do the police involved have to say for themselves? The killing clearly looks like a simple brutal and unprovoked act of murder, and I am all for stuffing the “police” involved into little jail cells for the rest of their lives. But what do they say in their defense? Is there anything they CAN say?
I hope those guys rot in jail the rest of their lives.
This is what their defense attorney, the lying fuck, was saying back in August, when the public had not seen the surveillance video:
These are the two officers I assumed would be charged, based on the video. The instigator who issued the ‘fuck you up’ threat, and the officer who tased Kelly and struck him in the head.
I’m guessing that only Cicinelli will be convicted of the murder because of the force charge. The fact that the DA is only bringing involuntary manslaughter seriously pisses me off. If he used excessive force ( a crime) which resulted in death (murder) it’s 1st degree. He killed someone during the willful commission of a crime.
The use of the taser was incredibly excessive and outside its prescribed use.
Hitting the suspect repeatedly over an extended period of time (a minute or so) causes cessation of motor control functions. Basically, tasing someone while giving them a physical command essentially makes it impossible for them to comprehend your command, let alone obey it.
Me too. But they won’t.
Only *second* degree murder? “Excessive use of force”?
“Excessive force”?
There should be no charge less than first-degree murder or accomplice/supporting actor to first-degree murder. There is no comprehensible outcome from what they were doing to that poor many beyond his death, and they knew that, and they persisted. They killed him on purpose. The first cop was overtly hostile from the get go. The first cop was visibly throwing knees into the back of his prone victim, *after* the delay with the security cam not capturing the situation. You don’t throw knees into the back of a prone victim unless you are deliberately and brutally trying to injure the person. The cop was attempting to break bones.
“Excessive force”?
No kidding. Any significant physical “resistance” from Kelly happened after he had been assaulted and he was still trying desperately to comply. I’ve seen this so many times now – cops with tasers and knees in someone’s back and batons stuck in their kidneys, telling them to “relax.” Hey Officer Friendly, no problem.
Well, you can’t put a defense attorney in jail for lying in public, only lying in court …
If a gang of civilians did this, it would practically be a hate crime and they’d all be locked up tight with no bail. Not so if you are a “peace officer,” as Kris has pointed out. We have two completely separate systems of “justice” here – one for the rich and their armed thugs, and another for the rest of us.
There is one *excellent* approach to dealing with this situation — all police officers on duty should have cameras mounted on them recording at all times. In any conflict situation the cop is involved with, it should be a simple matter of policy requirement that the camera data is perfunctorily taken from the camera and automatically entered unedited and unaltered into evidence, available for public review.
The cops would have to justify any use of force, and the camera data would have to support their claims.
We’d have much better police forces if the cops had to wear cameras.
Couldn’t agree more — the police are a) violent and on a power trip, b) immersed in a bunker mentality culture, c) allowed to believe they are morally superior, and d) not held accountable often enough.
A lot of them already do wear cameras, although I am not sure if they have to keep them turned on. I don’t trust the police to police themselves. You’d think that police departments would want to purge such people from their ranks, but instead they are defended or, at worst, charged with something like involuntary manslaughter or excessive force – which I find just as stupefying as you do.
Ramos = Spanish for arms or branches.
Ramos the Pig – “I’m gonna take my fist and fuck you up with it”.
He’s fucked.
The whole lot of them committed first degree murder.
If you touch another person or especially a cop – you have committed battery.
But a cop can touch you, grab you and even beat you to death.
What kind of law is this?
For me, one of the biggest problems, obstacle to public awareness, is the TV cop shows that present a fairy tale good guys always looking out for your best interests police, including the various flavors of CSI(who are not cops in the real world). People who haven’t had any confrontational contact with police believe that lalaland fantasy. Forty-five years ago, on two innocuous traffic stops, I found out what big city are like: Philadelphia assholes with tons of attitude. Cops generally believe the law is whatever they make it at the time and they know they most likely can get away clean if inconvenient facts arise later.
i watched the whole video. kelly was clearly never a threat. ramos was clearly baiting him. over him potentially being a suspect in a nonviolent crime.
damn!
The one thing that has changed in our lifetimes is that everybody has a cellphone camera and every street corner has multiple surveillance cameras. So what used to be your word against theirs is now their word against the video. Which doesn’t seem to be stopping the cops from killing people, but at least it makes it somewhat easier to hold them accountable.
Yes. And all of that is also mitigated by Kelly’s mental illness. It is just like a schizophrenic to say the wrong thing to a cop, isn’t it.
back in the 60′s i remember a guy with mental problems in brooklyn used to walk around the streets shadow boxing every night. he had a good relationship with the cop on the beat who knew he was crazy and harmless.
regular cop’s stand in one night killed the man within short order.
That’s horrible. We seem to have lost that aspect of law enforcement “protecting and serving” us, especially the most vulnerable in our society. Kelly was apparently known to the community and to the cops as someone who was mentally ill (and according to most reports, harmless).
I’d think so if there were any examples of cops being held responsible. Are there? The ex-cop just given 75 years in an assault case but not convicted of rape, ??????????, wasn’t videoed during the commission, so that’s not an example.
There’s a different standard of accountability for cops, to be sure. But Johannes Mehserle would not have even been charged with a crime in the Oscar Grant case had it not been for cellphone video and the ensuing uprising in Oakland in which the community said “no justice, no peace.” There was very little justice and consequently there has been very little peace – but it was better than the Rodney King outcome. Speaking of which, there was a very good documentary about the LA riots on VH1 that I think is still running or available on OnDemand.
When it comes to cops and authority generally, people do not believe the evidence of their eyes. Or maybe I should say Americans do not believe the evidence of their eyes because I don’t know how other countries and cultures process these kinds of incidents.
I agree. And, they may have a bit of a difficult time of it in jail/prison, finding any ‘protective custody,’ frankly and unfortunately.
They get around that issue, by lying, if they want to. In my case (8 yr sentence, BTW), three cops from two different agencies all claimed that their body mike batteries suddenly and simultaneously quit working. They did not want reality to see the light of day, so they simply lied.
Great idea though. I also love that everybody has cell phone cameras now. One thing that is great about Occupy is that 50 cameras from various angles and sources showing the same incident…well, it’s just kinda harder to lie about the incident.
I’d encourage everyone who is interested in making cops accountable (pipe dream though it may be) to check out their local Cop Watch group. It’s important to know your rights – which the cops won’t necessarily respect, but at least you should know that it’s legal to film them from a distance as long as you are not interfering, and so on.
Good heavens. After that great big whopper he told, it musta sucked when the video turned up on the internet!
Stories from as early as August 2011 suggest that the city has had that surveillance tape but they refused to release until yesterday, which was the first day of the preliminary hearing.
And from what I’m hearing, at least 1, possibly Ramos knew he was metally disabled. There are no words I can call these pieces of human excrement.
I hope they get locked up with the general population. They can show just how tough and bad they are then!