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| By: hotflashcarol Friday October 12, 2012 7:11 pm | |
I deleted the contents because I do not want it to be associated with Kelly Canfield in any way, shape or form.
Kit, thanks for promoting it. But I am not up for this type of bullshit. If I end up being disappeared from FDL, fine. But I won’t be a part of someone else being slandered.
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71 Comments
WOW! (Highly rec’ed).
loooove this!!
Hell yeah, looks like Occupy has a new anthem.
This is awesome…! ;-)
It’s amazing how far FDL has come in a few years. I was censored for using the word Revolution and verbally spanked for suggesting Tar and Feathering not that long ago.
If we could block the Obama ads we could really celebrate.
What kind of violence promoting shit is this?
This is no where near funny to me, not one bit. Shame on you Kit O’Connell for promoting this piece of violent bullshit crap.
I renounce this piece, I renounce it’s call to violence, I renounce FDL’s promotion of it.
“We got the guillotine, you better run”
Not funny, not useful, not right. Just tell me who you want to kill/behead.
No one, Kelly. Have a look at the lyrics on the youtube video, or the Wired interview linked above. my interpretation is obviously different than yours.
There’s no Wired interview linked anywhere above at this writing, and I watched all the video.
So my interpretation is obviously different than yours, and I totally declare:
I Have nothing to do with this piece of crap diary despite my FDL affiliation, and simultaneously I call on the management that crap like this “Off With Their Heads” find no place on these pages.
I don’t even know what to say, except that I feel really, really sorry for you.
Carol, Kelly does not speak for FDL.
I, for one, am very saddened to see the content deleted as I just had a wonderful time ending a bad work week with a bit of Boots Riley groove thanks to your original post. I really needed it! Thanks!
Siun, you’re welcome. And I know Kelly doesn’t speak for FDL, but IMO he should have been out of here long ago, based on the way he attacks people. But fuck it. I am not going to let Kelly get away with tagging Boots with his humorless hysteria. Life is too short to spend a second of it engaging with someone as out of touch as Kelly.
Why so serious?
The elites have already condemned billions of us to an early death so that they can maintain their spot at the top of the heap as humanity is slagged down.
The governments are utterly corrupt and complicit in the scheduled slaughter.
The “press” became the “media” and was picked up by the >1% at fire sale prices.
And all we have are each other… (not counting the bought-off tools of the status quo)
Why so serious?
I tuned back in to watch the video again. I’m so sorry that bullying happened to you. It’s happened to me before too. “The Bullying Commenter” has targeted me, he’s targeted Anthony Noel, he’s targeted the Anarchist writer who advocates boycotting the Election: He may have some specific political point to push against your body of work.
Hmmm. Now I wonder what the original post was about. I don’t think you should have taken the post down due to some criticism, even strong criticism hotflashcarol. Just my own opinion but when you write something, you should stand by it and damn the torpedoes. I don’t speak for anybody but myself in this but having been subjected to much worse flame jobs than the one you endured here, I’ve got to point out that you may want to try to develop a slightly thicker skin. I like and respect Kelly and one of the things I like about him is that he won’t sugar coat things. He’s sometimes vehement, always honest and never needs a defense from me or anyone else. I would argue that he is entitled to his opinion though, (as that’s what comment threads are for), but in the end, it’s just his opinion. I would encourage you to put it back up. Stand by your posts and don’t let one, (albeit vehement), criticism dissuade you.
M, I do not have a dog in this fight, but I am a bit surprised you feel so free to tell someone else what he/she should do. Thick skin is overrated, imo. Not a big deal; just a thought.
Hey, I was offering my opinion and suggestion not “tell(ing) someone else what he/she should do” but whatever. If I’m to be flamed for reaching out and trying to help, then I’ll toddle off. I have no dog in this fight either but I never expected to be criticized for trying to help. Excuse me for living!
Well, I’ll offer a way to help, hfc. The song would be great companion and intro for a Walmart Strike diary I’ve been collecting info to build over the past few days. It’s a complicated story, but I think I’ll just abbreviate it, and add a video at the end that is so wonderful it makes you cry.
Hope it’s okay to reprise it; and what a tickle that you’re friends with Boots, et.al. Fellow firecrackers unite!
Carol, I urge you, please do not silence yourself at the behest of Kelly Canfield, or any other self-appointed “scold”, on these threads.
What you had placed before us, which I saw and appreciated, the heartfelt, considered, and important words of another, a writer of lyrics, not just the “sharp” word but also the words that made clear that wealth is created by the labor of the many, and that “wealth” (to add my own words to what was offered), in a reasonable, an honest, and an upright society, IS that those resources vitally necessary to human life, to existence, … which, in that reasonable, honest, and upright society, are not, and shall not be, reserved for “first picking” by an elite who contribute nothing, but are the common wealth of those who produced who actually produced that wealth, and the many others, the children, who ARE the future, whose world it already is, if we are honest, the old, the infirm, who have long contributed to our collective world, all those, in society, in the human family, who have a moral and principled first call upon those resources necessary to life, to well-being, and to actual security.
Do not allow the “reaction” of one person to derail your sense of the larger mission, of encouraging understanding, solidarity, compassion, humanity and an “appreciation” of the nature of truth, of what is actually going on in our world … and what might be required to change what is going on, for something better, more humane, more just, and more sustainable.
DW
FDL does have a policy against suggesting violence, which you did NOT do.
However, any pretense that the class war is not violent, not completely destructive to humanity and the well-being of individual human beings and civil society, is utter and total hypocrisy.
There are human beings in this society with too little food to eat and no place to live, many who wish and need to work, to have worthwhile and honestly compensated endeavor are jobless and despairing while an elite criminal class are protected and coddled by those required, as the “representatives” of the people, to hold those who would destroy civil society to account.
Kelly is entitled to his opinion, but that is ALL it is, his opinion.
Carol, your contributions to this site are known and respected, they are important and central to the struggle, which all of us, even Kelly Canfield, are involved, very deeply, in.
Excellent comment sir!
Carol, Thank you for showcasing Mr. Riley’s excellent art work.
X2000
Comrade Ludwig
“‘We got the guillotine’ means we have the power to get rid of the ruling class to create a classless society,” he said. “One where the people democratically control the wealth that they create with their labor.”
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2012/10/exclusive-coup-guillotine/
Good and necessary rhetoric. Those who wield great power seldom cede it without the threat of force, either explicit or implicit. Force is their language, their modus operandi the only thing in the end they trust or understand. Look at how even putatively “liberal” Democratic mayors reacted across the board in lockstep to OWS action with a pitiless brutal iron fisted response. The kleptocratic ruling/political class- of either party- has no qualms whatsoever about using violence to protect their positions and don’t feel constrained in any way by notions of civil rights or even the law. When threatened the only law they observe is the law of naked power– of bloody gratuitous violence.
It’s a sad truth, we are ruled by dangerous violent sociopaths operating beneath a thin phony veneer of civilization and democracy. Trying to talk to them in a language scrubbed of any violent rhetoric is as useless as trying to talk to dog in Latin. They won’t hear a damn thing because that isn’t how their brains are wired.
Just how is “suggesting violence” defined? For instance, is , “I thought Joe showed remarkable restraint, being forced to watch that smug look on that geeky Eddie Munster made me want to smash Eddie’s face in” over the top? I came too late to see the post, but from the comments it seems hfc was referencing well known historical events. So metaphor is off limits? Aren’t hyper-sensitivity and over-reactivity to the written word traits of the most repressive cultures – i.e. the very opposite of what we value?
The video is brilliant.
(I couldn’t watch it at Wired because of AdBlock, but it’s on YouTube and elsewhere as well…)
“Guillotine” is a metaphor. It’s a metaphor that inspires strange reactions in some people — partly because it is a metaphor rather than a literal invocation of violence. No one, certainly not Boots Riley or HFC, is advocating the literal employment of guillotines against anyone, something that’s obvious in the video and in what Riley has to say about it.
The advocacy and employment of violence by the authorities and their paymasters is an inescapable fact of life and existence for many millions of Americans and many millions more around the world.
Objecting to the employment of a metaphorical guillotine in a creative work such as the Boots Riley’s video of “Guillotine” is a sad and empty thing it seems to me, especially when there is so much real violence perpetrated every day.
Denouncing someone for posting the video and link to the story that goes with it is absurdity on stilts.
X2
written word = performance art = any non-violent expression of dissent or political opinion
Well said.
Good morning, everybody. Perhaps I overreacted last night by deleting the video. That’s really all the post was – Boots Riley and The Coup’s new video, “We Got the Guillotine.” To me, it was just exactly what Siun said above – a wildly creative little Friday afternoon groove, with a deeper meaning if you wanted to go read the lyrics or Boots’ interview about it (which I included a link to in one of my comments).
Boots is someone I admire immensely. We are acquaintances, not close friends, but I’ve been on several marches with him and talked to him a little at OO events. In person he is just a regular guy, albeit a guy who is really smart and has been totally committed to making the world a better place since he was a teenager. He and his girl, Gabby LaLa, just had a baby a few weeks ago, little Django Moto.
A little gnat like Kelly Canfield would not even register on Boots’ radar. Actually, that’s not true. Boots would try to explain himself to Kelly; he’s pretty patient with gnats. A few days ago, Boots posted a critique of the latest spate of vandalism in Oakland. He dared to suggest that black bloc tactics “are not appropriate in every situation” and talked about how to grow the movement instead of pushing people away. It was the opposite of inciting violence. And he has been taking a boatload of shit for it, with comments running in the hundreds, many from the smashy smashy types who probably were in diapers when Boots got his start as an activist (any celebrity he has came much later). He has hung in there, arguing the case that we need to undertake actions that allow us to control the means of production and the wealth that it creates, and in order to accomplish that, we need lots of people. So we should consider tactics in Oakland that draw people in – especially people of color.
More context: Occupy Oakland is experiencing what I would call internal warfare; I won’t detail it here but there is a lot of ugly stuff being thrown around by all sides, a lot of it around race and privilege. Cointelpro type agents couldn’t do a better job; in fact, I am sure they’re in the mix.
Kelly’s attack last night just felt like the last straw. The diary didn’t really have many of my words, it was just a video that has been getting acclaim everywhere else. I just didn’t feel like adding that fucked up string of comments to the mix and to whatever else Boots is dealing with (even though he may never even see it). I wasn’t in the mood to deal with bullying, which is what it is (thank you normanb). And, finally, it made me a little ticked at whoever it is that allows Kelly to behave like that. It’s over the top.
All that said, I do so appreciate all of your kind words and support. It’s really important and I will keep that in mind next time. I do have pretty thick skin; this just didn’t feel like it was about me.
Wendydavis, your idea is perfect. The video is even better when paired with the Walmart workers strike, something that illustrates exactly what Boots has been working for all his life.
I came back to watch the video again this morning because I liked it so much and found this thread instead. Can a mash up of The Wiz spiced by elements from the French Revolution be taken as a literal call for violence? And where would we even find a guillotine, anyway?
The video obviously advocates severing the head of our capitalist economic system by exposing the capitalist elite behind the curtain. The guillotine is just a metaphor for justice for workers through a peasants’ revolution. Thanks for posting the video hotflashcarol.
Done, though in sincere haste. I’m sorry for the angst this ‘final straw’ caused you.
But seriously, woman, I can only urge you to always look on the bright side of life! And whistle while ya work! Always works for me (now that I have my MMJ card, of course…) ;oP
Thanks, yellowsnapdragon. I shoulda stuck around last night. The good news is that the video is now in a better place, on top of wendydavis’s Walmart strike diary.
And great thanks to you, wendydavis. Keep on tokin, my friend. :)
Tokin’??? Ya mean those little green buds ain’t suppositories??
(grumble, grumble, well, I never…that crazy doc was just havin’ me on? @#*&…)
Getting bullied here by the regressives is like getting banned at DailyKos or Democratic Underground, a badge of honor; something of which to be proud. I salute you hotflashcarol, I salute Boots Riley and I salute everyone bringing reality to the party, even when that reality is an unwelcome guest. The video is both powerful and danceable. How can that not be great?
Goody-goody, another intellectual food fight at FDL.
I’m keeping score so may the party with the most tolerance for bullshit win.
Otherwise, same old crap, different day!
This thread saddens me, from the point that I had seen in the last weeks some easing of the flaming, some reaching out to other commenters and focusing on those issues which we have similar views.
DW talks about trust being important to authentic and heartfelt discussions. He’s a hundred percent correct, I mean according to ME. Maybe some times it’s two steps forward, one step back.
Hoping for the best for and from everyone at the Lake.
Thank you for your comment. We appreciate your participation.
Kurt, forgive me for asking, because I’m not familiar enough with the tone of your voice, is that question asked with sincerity or snark? I’m trying to get a take on some of the voices here who I don’t “know” yet. Thanks, in advance.
“We appreciate your participation.”
As Tonto said to the Lone Ranger when both were surrounded by hostile indigenous citizens, and the Lone Ranger asked Tonto what they were going to do:
What do you mean ‘we’ white man.
I have no dog(s) in this brawl: I’m just keeping score.
Unfortunately, demi, the “purpose” of scolds is to deliberately undermine the building and maintenance of mutual respect and necessary trust by attempting to end reasonable discussion, doing so by denigrating, by offending, by seeking to belittle, and NEVER honestly engaging. The scold makes a comment and then scampers happily away, unless they hope to prolong the “fun” with further corrosive invective, intended to draw others into their snit.
That particular “tone” is ever evident and it is summed up, quite well, by the third sentence @ comment 33.
DW
Gee, a knightess in shinning amour. (‘r’ left out intentionally).
Good question!
This type of prolonged assault upon one another’s view of the universe reminds me of the 60’s cartoon which shows a battlefield littered with the mangled bodies of both sides and only one combatant is left standing. And then knee deep in gore (not Al) and awash in blood, with his arm raised, eyes shining with the light of victory and honor, proudly announces:
We won!
So, who ultimately wins at this battle of what ifs unfolding before our virginal eyes?
No one!
We only create animosity among the members of our community.
And we should not ignore the truth of the statement: He who causes trouble in his own house will inherit the wind. (They ought to make a movie about 1925 Dayton, Tennessee and the Scopes trial with the title ‘Inherit the Wind’).
Demi, I agree with you and DW that trust is important. A lack of trust is what is tearing Occupy Oakland apart, and I was feeling the brunt of that when I took down the diary. What I have witnessed [edited to add:] occasionally at FDL (and exponentially worse on Facebook) is what I call the “Valkyries” swooping in to gang up on people once a gauntlet has been thrown down. I am sorry to say that I have participated in such behavior myself – although not recently. It is not something I am proud of. I was anticipating this diary turning into that and I just didn’t want to go there. I was afraid that I would say something really ugly to Kelly, and I also didn’t want to go there. Margaret – who almost never comments on my substantive diaries – stopped by to tell me what my reaction should have been and to say that she respects Kelly. I expected more of that sort of interaction but it didn’t happen; instead almost everyone was very supportive. I appreciate that.
I still believe there is some distrust around what sort of discourse is “allowed” here at FDL and what isn’t. Some frontpagers can drop by to tell others to “blow them;” others can rail about how a diary incites violence and is a big piece of crap that should be renounced and denounced and blah blah blah. I appreciate Kit’s comments, but I have seen other mods take people to task for milder behavior than Kelly’s. It would be different, I suppose, if that wasn’t Kelly’s MO.
So yeah, trust. We need some more of it.
The video *is* deliberately provocative in suggesting the guillotine, so Kelly’s point is worth considering. Its obviously a metaphor, though.
If I am correct in interpreting your remark in regards to my comment @33 as a not so subtle attack,
Why not be man enough to confront me directly and not hid behind a woman’s skirts with your vapid platitudes.
Or, the short version:
Try growing a pair.
Sit down, flirty-boy.
x2
Ah now, doremus, you have completely misunderstood, and you might consider that possibility before making assumptions and engaging attack.
Hopefully, you will not wish upon me what you have done in the past?
Your challenges are interesting, but quite of your own making.
Consider it, if you might, a possible form of “negligence” … on your part, the resulting “accident”.
DW
Hey, Hotflash. I saw the video thanks to Wendy Davis on her Wal-Mart thread, then looked up the Coup, and discovered they will be performing at the Beachland Ballroom in Cleveland just 15 minutes away at most on December 3rd. $15 a ticket. Not bad, so my wife and I will go to our first concert in years.
Real revolutionary Marxist music, from a REAL Chicago community organizer.
Thanks!
“Try growing a pair.”
Thank you for clarifying and confirming my original take on your participation. All your valuable comments will be read and taken into due consideration.
Yay, OB, I promise you will have a great time. They are wonderful live. And they always try to do a little organizing or activism while they are in town.
“You’re so full of shit.”
President Douglas(James Garner) to President Kramer(Jack Lemmon) in My Fellow Americans
Were you just having a bad day, or do you really think this video promotes violence in the way the United States Congress did not so long ago that practically authorizes force against Iran? Do you celebrate American drone strikes killing women and children in several different countries, too?
The video makes a cogent and necessary political point and does so brilliantly. Did you even catch the Wizard of Oz metaphor?
I find it sheer hypocrisy, if not an out and out attempt at censorship(very Unamerican of you, IMO), to renounce the posting of this video because it “promotes violence” while at the same time endorsing the Democratic Party most of the time.
Larue, if I may…Harrumph!
Thank you. It’s always a pleasure to listen to you while you are trying to think.
“All your valuable comments will be read and taken into due consideration.”
Gee, I’ve never attended a trial in a gulag before.
Oh, and by the way, who died and made you master of the universe?
P.S. So far, you’re doing a sub-standard job.
Maybe you should quit while you’re ahead.
Just a friendly suggestion and not a command.
“Ah now, doremus, you have completely misunderstood,”
Really?
Perhaps you would care to elucidate that which was missed the first time around.
I would just love to listen to you elucidate ad nauseam.
Well put. Advocating for violence is fine for some of us as long as it is safely contained within advocacy for a Democratic Party awash in the blood of poor brown people. The hypocrisy is palpable.
Are we actually pacifists? And if we are, how do we square that laudable ideal with support for remorseless war mongers and murderers?
Perhaps, doremus, you might try a more civil approach?
Perhaps, you might ask me, “Are you saying that I am using that “tone”?
To which I would reply, “No, I am saying that the gist of your third sentence in that comment of yours @ 33, ” … same old crap, different day”, is the operating “method” of the scold.
I did not accuse you of the “tone” nor of anything else.
You suggest that I have no balls.
My balls are fine and functional, thank you.
Can the same be said of your civility, of your patience, of your sense of social interaction?
When last we had a “difference”, I apologized to you for the misunderstanding, which I considered, in a HEART-felt fashion, might well have been mine.
Does it never enter your perception, that you have responded rather nastily, to YOUR misunderstanding of what I actually said?
That, perhaps, it is now your turn, rightfully and honestly, to make the apology?
Does THAT possibility hold any need of application in THIS instance?
I have nothing, doremus, to apologize to you for… for I said, implied, and measnt nothing negative about you, at all.
You, on the other hand, reasonably and rationally, do, have a civil obligation to consider what you ought to do, in light of what you said to me.
Are you “big” enough, secure enough in your own being, possessed of enough maturity and understanding to, rise to that consideration?
The next “step”, frankly, is up to you, doremus.
Which “way” will it be?
Toward honest and mutual respect for necessary amenity between us, or will you “embrace” something else?
I have made clear that I made and intended no aspersion toward you, you cannot claim the same, for the evidence of your comment @35, as they say “speaks for itself”.
You do not need it rendered in the Latin, I am quite certain.
DW
DW,
I was speaking more the the bigger picture of how we treat epe ach other here.
I hope that you know that I’m trying to come from a Good Place.
Too much for me know.
I’ll talk to you later I hope.
Going back to a previous conversation we had. Did you receive an understanding of why RC said those things to me? You said you would ask him, and so, I have been looking for an answer.
I have never asked you for an apology for anything you have written of me: not something I would do.
Yet, since you festooned my comment @33 over at the lovely Ms. Davis’ diary with more than suggestions of ethical malfeasance, a reasonable, disinterested person would interpret that action as being of one having an ax to grind.
But, if you sincerely think I have unfairly, intentionally misjudged you or your character or premeditatively, knowingly misinterpreted or misconstrued the nuances of anything you have written, then I will surely step up and say I erred.
And the following I hope will clarify my intent when I penned comment #33:
My fervent desire cradled within comment @33 was for the members of the FDL community to please stop viciously attacking each other.
These episodes of internecine attacks are tedious and completely non-productive for all of us.
And I will again repeat: Those who cause trouble in their own house will surely inherit the wind.
And to once again thank Heraclitus for the power of his brevity of truth when he said so very long ago Panta Rei (you can never put your foot in the same river twice), as it relates to our past, present, and future:
I raise my mouse to you with hope of a new beginning and a long friendship of mutual respect and the sharing of thoughts for the ages.
Peace be to all our worldly brothers and sisters.
That is the trillion-dollar question, isn’t it. And I think that’s what pisses me off every time somebody has some kneejerk response to perceived or hypothetical or, in this case, metaphorical violence as opposed to the REAL violence that we suborn every day, whether it’s the drone wars or the fact that almost all of us have our “neck placed firm tween the floor and their florsheim,” as Boots puts it in the video. Violence is a constant; the oligarchy does not hesitate to use it against us. I used to call myself a pacifist but I don’t think that’s true any longer. I don’t know exactly where I might fall on that continuum but I am no longer pacified.
Well, frankly, hotlashcarol, you and and I have not trust between us that I can see. We’ve not chatted much and you seem like one of those really angry people that I choose not to deal with. You haven’t dealt with me either.
Let’s call it a Draw.
Dude. Bowl. Cuppa herbal tea, or I don’t know
There’s no reason to go Off at me, that I can see.
Doremus, does that mean you agree that Kelly made a vicious, unprovoked attack against me? Because that wasn’t exactly clear. My interpretation of your remarks throughout made me feel as if this was some of war that I was engaged in, when that’s exactly what I was trying to avoid. I posted a video, Kelly attacked, I took it down rather than deal with the thread turning even more ugly. I’m not sure I should have done that, because to some degree Kelly was successful in censoring me. From what I have seen of Kelly, he is completely incapable of the mutual respect you refer to above.
Demi, what on earth would you base that on? If I said something in that general statement that you took personally, well that’s on you.
And if you choose not to deal with me, Demi, then why the fuck are you here dealing with me?
Bye.
(geeze, person).
We are in full accord, doremus.
Namaste
DW
Who cares what Canfield says or thinks?
You had something to say and you said it.
Not everyone will love you, and I am sure you don’t want to be loved by everyone.
State your case; put on your armor; and do battle with the good, the bad, and the ugly.
And please keep in mind that the word fair is only a place where pigs compete for blue ribbons.
I sincerely regret that you were so hurt.
There are a lot of plicks floating around here (I write with a Chinese accent).
Thanks for your efforts and recommended.
hey, hfc, i love you and all your activism.
((((hotflashcarol))))
Hey doremus and greenwarrior – thank you, sincerely.
Doremus – I appreciate your explanation. And I do not give a rat’s ass what Kelly thinks. I was more concerned about involving someone else (Boots, who can certainly take care of himself) in something that is a very hot button issue. I don’t think that Kelly actually thought the video or the diary was an incitement to violence; I think he took advantage of an opportunity. And I was just in the wrong mood to entertain it. It’s not really that it hurt me; I’m not that tender. But it did make me mad and I thought my best move at the time was to sort of walk away. In hindsight there were other, better ways of handling it.
10,13,18,21,23,34,38,39,40,44,45,56 – from what I have observed, there are two types of interjections which risk derailing the otherwise thoughtful, informative, and uplifting contributions here: the deliberate troll, and the hypersensitive participant who sees personal attacks where none are intended. In the case of the obvious troll, could they not be simply ignored? (Not meant as a comment on your decision, HFC, where history and outside influences were a factor.) In this case, the vid was obviously metaphor. Once that has been pointed out, end of responses to troll intrusion. If one or two supporters wish to succinctly defend the unjustly maligned, do so. Then move on. For the hypersensitive, provide the briefest possible factual response politely rebutting the erroneous assumption. Then no further exchange on that subject. The big advantage to an online forum is the ability to ignore the disruptors. Why cede that advantage?
If the concern troll had been someone other than Kelly, and if he had accused me of something other than inciting violence, I would have either ignored him or responded briefly and moved on. But I am hypersensitive to such an accusation for any number of reasons, not the least of which was that it seemed like a veiled attempt to get me banned. And, as I have been trying to be honest here, I have to admit that I felt like I might hasten that process were I to engage with Kelly.
Sounds like a good decision…just shut it down. Then wait for other to tell you “what you should have done.” ;) Thanks.
Did anyone else read Masaccio’s “Elections Without Consequences”? We hardly need ask where “the wimps in the Democratic Party” come from when we have this kind of silliness.
Any serious student of history from Augustine on knows that, at its best, politics is violence by other means. It is violence sublimated. Violence is the REASON for politics. We have laws, campaigns, elections, and governments because the natural, logical, otherwise inevitable alternatives are the mode, the pike, the lamp post, and the guillotine. Revolutions are extremely effective agents of change. But those of us that know anything about them know that they are also messy, degrading, indiscriminate, and, as a famous conservative once noted, likely to eat their own. We resort to politics, law, and economics because the alternative for defending our rights and interests is–and always has been–violence. As civilized people, we rightly prefer our this other means.
But the civilized way has to be a real alternative if it is to work. It has to be effectual. All sides of society have to play by the same set of agreed rules. When “elections don’t change anything”, when laws are selectively enforced at best, and when governing of the many is the self-defined prerogative of the few, politics ceases to exist. Violent reality comes back to the fore. There is no such thing as one law for the rich and powerful and another for the poor and defenseless. As soon as you divide the social fabric in that way, you declare an end to politics and welcome anarchy (in its pejorative meaning). Just look at Syria and Libya in the last few months. Picture Spain, Greece, and Italy in the months to come.
Seen in this light, failing to discuss violence is not only absurd, it is irresponsible and immoral. The alternative to the rule of law is not impunity for a privileged few. The alternative is lynching, probably for a few at first and perhaps for a great many eventually. So at every opportunity, we need to remind wealth and power that analogs of the guillotine, the rope, and the lamp post are the historically most likely consequences of their present actions. Everyone needs to remember that wealth and social position only equate to power in a civilized society. Absent civil society, only real power–violent power–counts.
Brilliantly argued. Thank you. I wish I’d had the foresight to present such an argument along with the video in the first place, but it probably would have gotten even sillier if we’d tried to have a rational discussion. I’ve seen this debate make people go right off the deep end immediately. It pushes a lot of buttons but we are gonna have to talk about it sooner or later.