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This story continues to unfold so quickly that it’s impossible to put up a diary that remains accurate for any length of time. Instead, this is going to be a summary of the story so far and then some links.
The LAPD is on a violent hunt for one of their own.
A massive manhunt is taking place in Southern California for a former Los Angeles cop and decorated Navy veteran suspected of multiple homicides over the past few days, including the killing of at least one police officer. Christopher Jordan Dorner was fired from the LAPD in 2009 for giving false statements. Yesterday, Dorner posted a very long and rambling manifesto on Facebook in which he says that LAPD has not changed from the days of Rodney King and Mark Fuhrman. Dorner contends he was fired because he reported another cop for using excessive force. Dorner also relates other incidents of white cops using the “N” word in his presence and mistreating minorities. The manifesto also mentions at least 40 cops by name and threatens “unconventional and assymetrical warfare against police.”
While it’s quite clear that the police have legitimate reason to be worried for their own safety, they have already shown themselves to be reckless cowards. Two Asian Latino women delivering newspapers were shot by Torrance undercover Los Angeles police this morning simply because they were in a Nissan truck similar to that Dorner may have been driving. Please check out this photo of that truck and keep in mind that Dorner is a 6’4″ black male. There’s no way the cops could have made any sort of visual identification of the people in this truck and mistaken either of them for Dorner. And wouldn’t a second person in the truck, who might have been a hostage, preclude them from using deadly force? Shouldn’t the fact that the license plate was not Dorner’s have kept them from emptying their guns into the back window of this truck? Or maybe the fact that the truck was the wrong color and model? Somehow, the two women escaped death; one was shot in the back twice and is expected to recover and the other was shot in the hand was injured by broken glass. A second shooting, which involved Torrance police firing at a vehicle which also turned out not to be Dorner’s, miraculously did not cause any injuries.
Perhaps innocent people driving Nissan pickups are a little safer now that Dorner’s burning truck apparently has been found in the forest near Big Bear, where schools have been on lockdown all day.
There is so much more to this story, not the least of which is whatever truth may be found in Dorner’s manifesto. Something has caused this man to snap and turn on the very police force that trained him to kill…and to hate.
This is a live blog on the manhunt; I can’t vouch for the people posting, but many of the links have been quite accurate and helpful.
I’ll try to post new information in comments as it becomes available.
Photo by Steve Lyon released under a Creative Commons Share Alike license.
92 Comments
A tweet from Anderson Cooper:
Edited to add: Cooper was named in the manifesto, along with several other media figures and celebrities that Dorner either liked, or didn’t. The link I posted was to the unedited manifesto but many other news outlets are linking to an abbreviated version that doesn’t mention Cooper or others.
Justice is blind, hotflashcarol. And all of us look alike to freaked out cops on the hunt.
Q: how do you shoot a coin full of bullet holes, unless it’s a Canadian Loonie? Seriously. Guess the DVD is his manifesto?
Well, if you scroll way down at this link, there is a photo of what may be a coin of some sort with bullet holes in it. It has William Bratton’s name on it; perhaps this is why I was compelled to write this diary.
This is the WaPo coverage. Note the passive voice on page 2:
It was dark and those two Asian women together in a blue truck looked like one big black guy in a gray truck. Bullets were fired.
So…it *was* a Loonie! Where do you spend a coin like that (without bullet holes; odd thing)?
“One *gargantuan black guy in camo clothes” and “The license plate could not be seen.”
Collisions lead to shootings.
Sorry, but the LA Times said that it wasn’t clear which newspaper they were delivering. Somehow, that was just crazee.
Nah. DWB and shot under the new guidelines form the Drone program.
1. Senior officials (claimed)
2. Imminent means at any time
3. Unable to be arrested (they were at least 100 ft ahead of the cops).
Truth is stranger than fiction these days, for sure . . .
I have to be away from the computer for the next three hours or so; I suspect this story will have changed quite a bit by the time I return.
As Synoia suggests, the name of the paper might tell us whether they were enemy combatants.
Just wait till the American police get armed drones.
Plotting jihad against…the LA Times. And my Loonie joke was meant to be about Bratton. Fell flat without the reference.
I have a lot of thoughts on this situation but I might save them for their own piece. For now let me just say, thanks for this liveblog and keep it up.
What a bizarre story.
Checking for more while you’re out, hfc, I found this CS Monitor piece that’s actually pretty interesting.
The title must have been a forehead-wrinkler to produce:
Massive manhunt for ex-LAPD cop: Trust and respect at stake for police
The beginning is all about the public needing to know that the police can take care of their own (morale, etc., and by extension: the public at large), then veers into the ‘you don’t need bad cops going rogue and reinforcing all of the negative cop stereotypes served up to the population in TV shows and Hollywood movies,” says Mr. Scafidi, adding, “so when a cop goes bad, good cops go into hyper-drive to, in this case, apprehend him before any more damage is done”.
Then, in the ‘problem goes both ways’ section:
Not a piece about total police inculpability; a bit refreshing.
Wow, front paged – thanks, Mods. I better try to catch up.
I believe Dorner was telling the truth when he accused the other cop of excessive force. Unfortunately, the police force has evolved from an institution dedicated to protecting the public into one dedicated to protecting themselves and the property of the elite. They are pretty close to becoming “brown shirts.”
Wendy, thanks for that link. It is refreshing to see a story with a little more nuance. This really is the worst nightmare for the cops – a story that refuses to be resolved quickly, giving journalists (although not necessarily MSM) time to do more than just take dictation at the police press conferences. I haven’t read the entire manifesto but some of the grievances Dorner talks about are things we’ve heard many times before about LAPD.
The latest news from the L.A. Times indicates they are searching around Big Bear Lake, but that Dorner “could be anywhere.” They’re also concerned that he might be setting a trap for police.
What an intriguing coincidence:
From the Torrance Daily Breeze, more details about the shots that were fired at innocent people:
snip
And my favorite part of this article:
This is supposed to be a livestream of a police news conference; as of 9:11 pm PST, it doesn’t seem to have started yet.
I just looked at msnbc cnn abc and cbs, and not a single mention of this cowardly shooting……bad bad bad…..these coward ass cops will shoot anybody to save their own asses…….anybody….
I know – it seems to only be getting local coverage. The media ought to be warning people about the danger posed by police since the suspect appears to be after other cops and not civilians.
I’m reminded of the D.C. sniper, when a vague (and as it turned out baseless) report that a white “box van” was involved had the cops stopping all manner of white vehicles for days, while ignoring a car driving around with a hole drilled in it to stick a rifle out of. Here, I guess the Nissan is better grounded factually, but the response is just as stupid.
The complete inability of the authorities to evaluate the probative value of a piece of evidence is dismaying.
Of course, in D.C. the sniper victims weren’t cops, so law enforcement didn’t rate the case highly enough to actually blast away at anyone driving a white van.
Obviously their loyalties are to each other and not to the public they are supposed to protect and serve. The victims in Torrance had the bad luck to be in the vicinity of the home of a cop who was named in the manifesto and who was thus being protected, above anyone else in the neighborhood. It’s apparent that under those circumstances, protocol goes right out the window and they just start shooting.
As of late Thursday, police have lost Dorner’s trail after finding footprints leading away from his burned out truck at Big Bear Valley. A winter storm warning is in effect for the next 24 hours at Big Bear, which is likely to hamper search efforts.
Corrupt, violent cops and pedophile priests. Thank God there’s also a whole bunch of us who aren’t predators.
But these fine people keep citizen TBogg and his possessions safe from you ungrateful hippies. Support them and stop whining. Collateral damage? Not worth the life of a basset, for sure.
Oh, and give them dronez! Then the Boggmeister can make more snarky comments about you hippy-people and your deluded fixations!!!
This man will die. It’s a given. He will be killed, put down like an animal. The question is: Can he rock their world before he does? We aren’t talking about some crackpot that has gone looney tunes, around the bend. We’re talking about a police force that kills women, children, the elderly and others and always walks. They’re rarely charged, never convicted. They practice legal murder openly. They would be charged if people weren’t too afraid to do so. So can this man rock their world? A lot of people should think not and have their doubts because he would have to probably kill over a hundred of the chaff. But there’s always hope. Maybe God will help him. Not that God will help him kill but maybe God will give him time he normally wouldn’t have. It’s too bad that there aren’t a thousand more just like him to help him because he’s battling monsters. Not the kind that are internal monsters of the mind but real, external monsters that hold a badge and a gun and commit murder with impunity because the ordinary people are too scared to speak up. So God bless him. This is Biblical. That’s a funny thing to say considering he doesn’t care about God, Jesus, or the Bible. Can he be like the Batman rising up against an evil, corrupt big police farce and eventually foil them? One guy versus thousands. Someone who battles cowards that would riddle two innocent women delivering newspapers just sitting in their vehicle with bullets . Another crime that will never be prosecuted. One more among hundreds, nay, thousands. After all, the cowards that lit these two women up don’t even have to be expected to be able to differentiate between the sexes. Maybe someone in some small way can reach out and give him help and hope in his seemingly fruitless endeavor. If not, he only has God. And the mystery of God can work wonders. Maybe that will be enough. This didn’t happen in a vacuum. These are the monsters of America the great. Monsters that are normally invisible if you and your family want to go on living. But surprise, surprise someone stood up, stands in the breach and casts a light upon their darkness. It isn’t dirty harry that he’s up against. He’s up against the wicked who will answer one way or another when their time comes. The chaff being thrown on a pile and burned in a fire that never extinguishes. All I’m saying is that there are good cops and bad cops. And he’s the ugly. Right Clint?
I was just at Jonathan Turley’s site to see if he’d weighed in on Brennan’s confirmation hearings, scrolled down and found his short piece about this hail of 137 bullets fired into a car by Cleveland police…killing both black unarmed occupants.
@ mikebar: I don’t see how Dorner becomes a counter-culture hero from this. Reports I’ve read say he admits killing several people last weekend, including the daughter of a cop who represented him at his hearing.
Ah, yes, it is tragic when a couple of scared little pussies mistake a 71-year-old woman (Emma Hernandez) and her 47-year-old daughter (Margie Carranza) in the wrong model, wrong color truck for a 270-pound black male. Emma is the one who was shot twice; fortunately she is expected to recover. The two women have an attorney who calls this incident “unacceptable.” That’s an understatement.
wendydavis, your Cleveland story is also “unacceptable.” Somehow these stories don’t seem to make it to Good Morning America or the Today show; all we’re hearing about is the heroic police trying to hunt down some crazy monster. They’d prefer not to explain that he’s one of our own making.
Doesn’t the world become exponentially more dangerous to a police force which has to face civilians armed with automatic rifles? I am not going into the scenario which says in a government such as we have, we need arms to protect ourselves – that’s crazy and I am a proponent of nonviolence, period.
Every city, I would think, now has a paranoid police force ready to jump at the slightest inference of harm – and in their uniforms, with their marked cars, they are sitting ducks. I can’t imagine the mentality that allows them to function like a regular human being. Yes, they are at fault for the madness they are caught up in but when there is lax regulation of firearms, what else is going to happen?
I remember that police officials were the most adamant that weapons of a humankill nature be restricted for civilian use – and we got no help on that front, no help at all.
We had a movie depicting the kind of mad chase this perpetuates way back when – “The French Connection” – last overwhelmingly violent movie I ever went to, but it made its point. We should have learned.
Exactly. Most people are good people.
I believe him too. Sadly, because the manifesto asks journalists to research his past, probably only bloggers will do that work. And, of course, the bloggers who will bother to do the research have no credibility in the MSM since they are bloggers.
I agree with your assessment in some regards, juliania. America is an incredibly violent place for all of us. According to Slate magazine’s new interactive gun-death tally, at least 1,624 people have been killed in the U.S. by guns since the Sandy Hook incident, which was less than two months ago.
I have theoretical sympathy for the cops who have to deal with an armed populace. But my opinions of who should be allowed to have guns continue to change. The cops are no longer automatically the good guys. Police forces have become militarized and they have begun to think of civilians as their enemies. And often they don’t seem to think twice about torturing us and killing us; the only repercussions are to the taxpayers, who have to pick up the tab for the inevitable lawsuits. In Torrance, they appear to have abandoned any sense of professionalism or due process in order to protect one of their own against another one of their own. They don’t care if one of us gets killed in the crossfire. Don’t they have a duty to protect us? Aren’t they “heroes” because they’re supposed to get between us and the bad guys?
Mikebar, I prefer to think of it as karma being visited on a police force that has arrested, tortured, imprisoned and killed thousands upon thousands of people, many of them innocent, many of them minorities who continue to receive unequal justice. I think Dorner is the tip of the iceberg; we have too many cops who have also been in the military, where they are trained to hate civilian populations even more. Dorner may become a folk hero to some; better that he becomes a cautionary tale.
Here is a story about two more innocent victims of this tragedy. The fact that Dorner has been willing to target family members of cops gives us a little more insight into the police psyche right now. But it’s still no excuse for them to shoot anything that moves.
It’s no excuse. But that Dorner’s ‘manifesto’ spoke of asymmetrical warfare’ against the police *and* these were his first two murders…immediately puts him out of the running not only for counter-culture or ‘folk hero’ stature. From a wide-angle perspective, I can certainly sympathize with the man, but from this week’s events, sorry, no.
Reading his uncensored ‘manifesto’, it’s clear to me that his racial wounds began early and festered. Being a Navy Reservist *and* a cop would have put him in those same authoritarian, often racist, milieus that would have been a perfect storm…for him. Power, authority (and intel if what he said about his Navy service is so), powerful weapons, but also institutions where the same could, and were, visited upon him.
His personal psychology may end up causing him to want to ‘commit suicide by cop’, which it may be called in any case if he’s killed, even if it’s not. But if they capture him, I do hope he can receive the healing help he needs.
Yeah. That Dorner has killled family of the people who have done him wrong makes it difficult to sympathize with him.
The best outcome we can hope for is that the whistleblowing issues Dorner addressed in his manifesto are addressed. Clearly, Dorner expects to be killed by police eventually, while taking out as many of them as possible.
He’s certainly not a hero in my book.
There’s already a Facebook page called I Support Christopher Jordan Dorner with more than 1,500 “likes” so far. The description of the page says:
It’s an open page – you can comment without “liking” the page – and comments are running in all directions. He’s tapped into a pretty deep well of hatred for LAPD and California cops in general.
I’m trying to look at in the context of his particular history; this is the way that he has been trained to resolve conflict. He appears to be a very intelligent person and he spells out the consequences of what he’s doing. He expects to be killed; I don’t see them capturing him alive either.
It’s the sort of thing that Authority is petrified of; one of their “own” turning on them. It’s happened a few times, after all, with horrific results. The innocent are always sacrificed.
How many more will pay the price for official impunity in this case is anyone’s guess. No matter, our Bourbons will neither learn nor forget — any more than their spiritual ancestors did.
Here is a comment from this morning’s online discussion at the LA Times:
Some important things to consider about this situation.
1. The United States military trained him in the tactics that he is now using against law enforcement officers who are pursuing him. Can you say “blowback”.
2. The racism of the LAPD is well-known and still uncorrected some 48 years after the Watts riots.
3. The impunity of police forces is one of the issues that the Occupy movement has been protesting.
4. The media will totally miss all of these points.
Those same points are being made in the discussion I linked to in comment 44. People are asking the LA Times reporters to focus at least some of their resources on LAPD conduct and its relationship with the community. The reporters’ responses are quite revealing.
Also, I guess William Bratton is still in the loop even though he’s not the police chief in LA any more (now he’s Oakland’s burden to bear). This is from that same link; Stevens is a reporter:
That’s a really important point. Dorner’s solution to his problem is part of the problem itself. There is a deep sickness in our culture and one flaring symptom is gun violence. The disease is so much deeper, though. It has deep roots in the lack of equality and lack of economic justice. I wonder if we’ll ever get to address the roots of violence in our culture?
We ought to be asking what a peaceful resolution to his concerns should have looked like.
Yep.
This blog suggests that even Dorner himself was in favor of controlling the guns he’s using on his rampage.
…which makes the whole situation even more bizarre.
Oh please. That’s exactly what the U.S. does in its lonely, courageous droning campaigns across the planet, and you sympathize with that country, don’t you? DON’T YOU? If not, kbki202 can recommend a self-satisfied Obot therapist to uncloud your negative and troubled thoughts.
I sympathize with innocents who have been wrongly killed. Then, I sympathize with people who have been done wrong by the powerful. In that order.
Dornan killed innocent people. Murder is wrong.
Davey D brings up a lot of interesting questions raised by Dorner’s manifesto.
Your anti-U.S. rhetoric has been duly noted and automatically saved to disk for future prosecutorial uses.
I don’t see how abhoring murder of innocents is anti-U.S. It is moral and ethical. W.T.F?
Whoa, sorry. I thought you were familiar with current official U.S. foreign policy and practice.
Dude. There is a big difference between being against a policy or a set of policies and being anti-U.S. Believing that your country should be consistently moral and just is a high form of patriotism.
Dude. The trendline says you are 100 percent wrong. The logic of control and the dynamics of exceptionalist power make it a certainty. For double points, who is most famous for saying “You’re either with us or against us”?
I reckon you mean Dubya, but boatloads of Manichean idiots have framed the false dilemma over history, from Christ forward. But this colloquy is getting purdy far out there.
No, I don’t reflexively sympathize with the nations whose citizens we assassinate by drone, because their corrupt leaders too often support it. In Yemen the leaders have even lied that it was they who did the deeds, not the US. Now that’s proof that they have something to gain from it, as well as hiding their entanglements with our government.
I sympathize with the people so hideously impacted by it.
I’m talking about the trendline and the logic of control. Enemies of the State will be deemed to be committing unpatriotic crimes when they criticize the State, its leaders, or its policies, or empathize with designated foes wherever they may be located on the global battlefield. That’s where all this is headed. Obama and Praise TBoww! are already there.
One factoid that the LAPD is so jumpy about Dorner is the fact that his ‘assault rifle’ is a .50 Cal Barret’s…! Yee-haw…!
Anyways, here’s some pics of the ballyhoo…
Manhunt for Christopher Dorner spreads to Big Bear…
Ah, I see. You’re right in that, and I’ll easily be deemed a traitor, just for calling for the restoration of our democracy and the Rule of Law…and calling out Obomba.
Gotta go cook up some more inconvenience for our Lords and Masters (or so they hope)and some dinner (we’re so fortunate to have food yet).
File a claim, says LAPD to the people who have found bullet holes in their cars and houses in Torrance. I had two reactions to this article:
1) The reporter apparently didn’t ask LAPD about the danger their behavior posed to people, as evidenced by all these stray bullets; and
2) People said they’d never heard gunfire and that they moved to the neighborhood because they knew that retired cops lived there. We definitely have parallel worlds in the U.S. – people who feel safer around cops and people who don’t. It also reminds us that, these days, most cops live in safer suburbs instead of living in the communities where they work. That goes for active duty officers, not just those who are retired.
Making the list of traitors is oh-so-much-easier these days, now that we have blogs like this one and Facebook groups where we identify ourselves so readily.
My traitor and cop-hater bona fides were already well-established – ain’t that right, Officer Friendly?
…I’ll easily be deemed a traitor, just for calling for the restoration of our democracy and the Rule of Law…and calling out Obomba… I hope we’re in the same Cell Block, M’dear…! ;-)
they had tanks in the LAPD for years.
you are correct, Sir.
like or not, this is what revolution looks like. i am a pacifist. but also a Marine. wrap your brain around that for a sec.
banksters won’t give up without a fight. this guy may be just a loon. but he may be something else. someone trying to tell the world something, and willing to die for it. cause he knows he’s a dead man.
i don’t mean to offend and i hope i won’t get banned for this comment. but the truth of history is that it takes… ugly stuff. for change to happen. that is simply History.
*heh* I’m a die-hard Pacifist too, but, I was a Sapper…! ;-)
That .50 Cal Barrett’s will penetrate an APC’s thin skin..!
Yes, a lot of good questions.
Aside from his job being at stake, wouldn’t Dorner’s life also be at stake even before his manifesto if he was trying to get the racism and violence and corruption in LAPD cleaned up?
Maybe the manifesto and the alleged murders he committed came from his own life being threatened?
By this time, we’ve all had a lot of experience with how whistleblowers are dealt with in our current culture. Does this not apply to Dorner as well?
I just watched Anderson Cooper interview another reporter, John Miller, about this case. Miller made what sounded like an attorney’s defense of the Torrance shooting. He kept saying that the women in the truck probably didn’t do anything wrong and yet the mindset of the police made it a “very difficult situation.” I’ve seen the pigs freaking out and screaming stuff at civilians who are in turn panicking because guns are pointed at them and they’re terrified to make a false move (although so far, there’s no indication that the cops in Torrance gave the women any warnings or instructions). I don’t really give a rat fuck about the police mindset; if they’re that scared, they need to stay home and let someone who can actually protect the public take over.
The truth sometimes offends people. But at some point, we’re gonna have to start paying attention.
But, the sheer apathy of the Sheeple is a daunting obstacle…! 8-(
The media are sure going into their “nothing to see here” mode.
Today the scrutiny got a lot more real for me and Mr. wd. And…so it goes.
And, how, Tarheel…! 8-(
*heh* I was very civil and proper last nite, even when St. Senator, Malama Solomon, was giving me the ‘stink eye’ for awhile…! Oo-wie, if looks could kill…! ;-)
Ok, I think I understand what you are saying. USG categorizes anyone who challenge their policies as anti-American. Fair enough. I think that is true.
Can’t help responding, and I apologize for going a tad off topic. No way on that characterization, no way.
Three of the evangelists reported comparable sayings – only Matthew has one somewhat similar – speaking of demons in particular that ‘he who is not with me is against me…’ (a somewhat similar statement to ‘by their fruits ye shall know them.’
The other two are like this:
“Teacher,” said John, “we saw a man driving out demons in your name and we told him to stop, because he was not one of us.”
“Do not stop him,” Jesus said. “No one who does a miracle in my name can in the next moment say anything bad about me, for whoever is not against us is for us. I tell you the truth, anyone who gives you a cup of water in my name because you belong to Christ will certainly not lose his reward.”
—Mark 9:38-41, NIV
I certainly prefer the second one, but in spiritual terms the warning Matthew gives makes sense as well.
[Sorry to intrude; carry on, good folk]
I didn’t mean to step on any Christian toes, juliania, but it seems like sophistry to me. But that there are rarely any black and whites is a whole ‘nother discussion. Preferable to me are questions, like “Which side are you on?” that spur consideration and reflection that might gel a person’s choices writ large.
Oh, and…juliania. I remember now that when I was composing that comment that I grew curious just how often similar claims had been made, googled, and was reminded that Christ had apparently said it. I changed my comment to add his name, and was careless in not deleting ‘idiots’. While I don’t believe he was the son of God, nor that the Bible is infallible, I do revere him as a great prophet. My apologies.
I smell panic mistaking women for men? Do you know how many Nissan Trucks are in California?
What I would find interesting is wether all these cops either have racist ideas belong to racist groups or maybe they have had personal racist encounters with Dorner.
Panic needs a reason
This sounds like a Right Wing plot for a movie starring Arnold, Bruce Willis, or Rambo except of course he is the wrong color.
The Right Wing violence movie machine certainly inspired this plot. I do wish the law would take his accusation’s seriously and investigate what is going on.
Great Post HotFlashCarol I am bookmarking it.
http://youranonnews.tumblr.com/post/42506354980/heres-an-uncensored-copy-of-the-rogue-lapd-officers
Assuming this video is real then the police have a lot to answer for. Assuming that Officer Evans did kick a suspect then what is the big deal cops do this all the time. They get some anger management classes maybe, a desk job at worse they get fired but move and get a job in another police dept in another state, or become private detectives or private security.
Just who is this guy related too?
In Chicago Mayor Daley’s Nephew killed a guy and the police buried the investigation that is until Mayor Daley left office.
If you get this many cops to lie for one person chances are that person has clout in the police dept.
Serious Clout like Mayor Daley clout or maybe he has several relatives in the Dept?
I am just speculating here but to fire another cop for doing their job when the consequences to officer Evan’s would be minimal he just kicked a guy suggest we don’t know all the facts yet.
Why did the cops feel the need
No edit please delete Mod what happened to edit?
Cop’s at the police academy sing Nazi song’s? All the cop’s involved should be fired as well as everyone teaching and managing the police academy.
Nobody is surprised or shocked to read any of this about LAPD; it rings true to a lot of people. LAPD and their lapdog media would rather pretend that Dorner is just a disgruntled nut and everything he says is crazy. But their behavior since the manhunt began continues to prove him right – they’re more interested in protecting their own than the community.
Dorner had enough integrity back in 2002 to return $8000 he and another Air Force Base student found in the road in Oklahoma. The money belonged to a Korean Church.
That says a lot about whether Dorner was telling the truth about Evans kicking a cuffed, schizophrenic man.
More details on the truck shooting…
http://touch.latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-74351492/
No problem, wendydavis – sorry myself not to have tracked down this thread as it had disappeared from the current side listings. (I got to it through hotflashcarol’s comment on your latest) – haven’t yet had time to read – but I will now do so – just call me laggard (that’s spelled without a ‘b’).
And further apology is needed from me to hotflashcarol for messing up an important and serious thread with this side issue.
Sorry, didn’t know about this excellent diary when I posted mine earlier today (Sunday). FWIW, this police madness needs to get out there so the more diaries the better:
http://my.firedoglake.com/fairleft/2013/02/10/lapd-vs-hispanic-women-delivering-newspapers/
fairleft
Well done, fairleft!