By now we all realize that Obama was always going to increase our presence in Afghanistan. He campaigned on it, he even mentioned it in the debates. If you thought he was going to just pull out immediately you simply weren’t paying attention.
But that’s not new, that’s been all over the blogs / web.
But now we have his rationale for escalation. And no one is buying it.
However I’d like to point out there are people saying the plan is wrong for the wrong reasons. I’d like to take issue with Glenn Greenwald and his response to the speech found here.
http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2009/12/02/obama/index.html
Many Democrats (the self-proclaimed "liberal hawks") love to support American wars on the self-righteous ground that we’re going to drop enough Freedom Bombs to liberate millions and invade other countries in order to re-make other peoples’ cultures for their own good.
I consider myself a "Liberal hawk". I don’t mind using force for nation building if that’s really the goal. But this isn’t a valid reason to be against the strategy I feel.
I would feel much more at ease if we had a viable partner in this exercise. But this is not the case. Karzai is a corrupt warlord who stole an election. He’s not a partner we can work with. I’m not sure that makes the whole "Liberal hawk" ideology moot. I’m not really sure it has anything to do with the Liberal hawk viewpoint. Cenk Unger of the young turks was on Olbermann last night after the speech and his point was the fact that Karzai is corrupt is the problem. No tangents about the Liberal hawks, just a pure statement of fact.
But indeed this was not Obama’s rationale. the rationale was "maybe someday they might attack us again, so we need to deal with it now" I fail to see how that is the Liberal hawk policy.
I’ve written many times before why, on security grounds alone, I oppose escalation and even ongoing occupation. The greatest cause of Terrorism is our endless wars, invasions, bombings, occupations and other means of interfering in the Muslim world, and our escalation will only fuel the anti-American hatred and resentment that — as even our own Government has recognized — is the primary fuel of the threat we’re supposedly trying to arrest. For that reason, Obama’s escalation is, in my view, more likely to subvert rather than promote the security goals he cites to justify it.
I cannot disagree with this strongly enough. The primary fuel of the threat we’re facing is religion, pure and simple. That’s not to say that all religions are Al-qadia, but we cannot deny that their main motivation is religion.
It’s hard to get someone to blow themselves up if they don’t think they’re headed towards eternal reward. Remember, the 9/11 attackers were sure they were doing a morally just thing. they were under orders from their god.
I’m not attempting to say we’re not making it worse either. As a "Liberal Hawk" as Glenn puts so ugly a name on it I’m disgusted with the current strategy. If we’re not going to do it for real we should get out now. And yeah, if we’re doing it half assed (I use the dirty language for force, because that’s really what it is) that’s going to cause some problems because they don’t believe us.
But to infer that we wouldn’t be hated or under attack if we did nothing is foolish. And it’s not a good way to critizise this decision.
But if Obama’s approach — reflective of the Republican "realists" to whom he seems to listen most — slays the pervasive, preening "liberal hawk" fantasy that we invade and bomb other countries in order to help them, that will at least be an important value. With some extremely rare historical exceptions, governments start and wage wars in order to benefit themselves, not to "help" the people in the countries which are being invaded and bombed. We’ve proven so many times as to place it beyond dispute that we’re more than willing to support and empower foreign leaders who do our bidding regardless of how they treat their own citizens. That didn’t change when we had a swaggering, cowboy-hat-wearing, evangelical moralizer in the Oval Office, and it’s not going to change just because he’s been replaced by a charming, nice, eloquent, East-Coast-educated Democrat
More of the "Liberal Hawk" bashing. My only real response is to bring up Africa and wonder if Glenn doesn’t want us to go and try and help say ..Sudan. Should we not intervene in acts of Genocide? If he thinks we should his "liberal hawk" bashing is hypocritical at best.
But there are REAL criticisms to be lobbed at Obama. The above is smoke and mirrors.
1) Insistance on ending the "drug trade" in Afghanistan. It’s one you hear all the time right? They’re growing poppies therefore they must be evil. Problem is not much else grows in Afghanistan. After decades of war it’s hard to grow anything, but they can definately grow poppies and make decent money. But what’s wrong with stopping the drug trade?
Well thing is we need poppy plants. We use them to make legal painkillers used in hospitals. the US currently imports them from Turkey. Afghanistan desperately needs money to begin rebuilding the orchards and such to grow different crops. But instead of buying and using the poppies for legal purposes, we burn the fields and make the farmers go to the enemy.
2) 30,000 troops can do what in 18 months? What will the extra troops do that current levels cannot? It hasn’t been answered yet.
3) If Pakistan is the problem why are we bothering with Afghanistan. Why do we surge in the country that’s not the main problem? What are we actually doing ab out Pakistan, we didn’t get any answers.
4) "fake" timetable. The language used for the withdrawl was extremely vauge. And he even left himself open to "conditions on the ground" excuse for pushing the date back.
There are real things about this strategy to not like, but please let us not ignore them and push the fake reasons as the real ones.



12 Comments







To answer your questions:
1)This one I don’t have a good response to. I have been advocating the purchase of poppies for years. Hopefully we will get the picture on this.
2)The 30,000 troops can not cover the whole nation, this is true, but they don’t have to. They are going to be tasked with covering population centers (the real nation) and this number while low has a chance to make a difference. The other reason it is this number is there are only 50,000 troops in reserve and the President is committing 60% of them, it really is all there are to send.
3)You can’t just invade a nuclear armed ally. We are fighting there though it is a covert war. The problem is not Pakistan per se it is Pashtun nationalist movement which is on both sides of the borders. One of the reasons the ISI supported the Taliban in Afghanistan is they wanted to keep this problem on the other side of the border. Since that failed there is a need to address it inside their borders. They have been making moves on the Taliban in their tribal areas, if we do the same this helps to make the case to those less hard core Taliban that it is better to negotiate then fight without a safe haven on either side of the border to fall back to.
4) There are always caveats like “conditions on the ground” for any military plan. There is no way to know exactly what the situation will be in 18 months, but by setting a time table, even an aspirational one you give more urgency to all involved.
So, there are the answers I have. I am still deeply skeptical that this will all work, but it is response that balances the resources we have with our complex political and security needs.
I understand your answers are what the administration will say but.
I’m not really sure I see how this works. the president said that they’re along the boarder region and in the hills and what not, so I don’t really see what the population centers have to do with it.
That’s not where they are.
An ally can invite you in. Granted I know that’s not going to happen. Just felt the need to say it. But the problem is they’re already in Pakistan. And if we put the pressure on them in Afghanistan they will just hide in Pakistan, bide thier time and wait till we leave to go back in.
At no point did he mention a strategy for Pakistan. And I am no longer willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. All of his strategy depends on Pakistan, and I have the same problems with that government as I do with Karzai.
I feel almost Neocon-y for going this way but here it goes. If we’re not going to really commit and really try and some something then we’re just giving them a timeframe to wait.
in reference to my first problem I said policing the populus areas doesn’t matter because that’s not where they are. It’s the boarder. So we’re going to go in..sit there as giant targets..and start to pull out.
that also said the whole rationale for the surge si that it allows us to come home faster. This is obviously not the case, and all the loopholes built into the speech reinforce that it’s a lie.
“That’s not where they are.”
Yeah, but the light is so much better in the population centers.
Inquisitr, while I differ with some of your emphasis, I am very impressed that this article makes it more likely that Obama will chose to withdraw before a Republican similar to Nixon claims to have a secret plan to end the war in the next election.
Activists who make Obama look stupid or totally bought off make it harder for Obama to try to solve our other problems, and harder for progressives to have a niche to lobby Obama not end up getting the US muddled up in Honduras.
I wrote “Backing Obama not the War”,
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/16936
directly dealing with this point. But your indirect approach may accomplish more in this direction then what I am trying to organize.
RichardKanePA.blogspot.com
I’m actually not sure he’s going to pull out. Personally I assume not, I don’t think he has it in him to fight back against his generals.
My problem with Obama has been this, that he thinks all questions can be answered by taking the “middle road”. It’s the community organizer in him I’m sure, which is why I will never vote for another community organizer, but I think he’s totally missed the climate of the country right now.
This is not a country where we agree, at all. The positions of left and right on a number of issues are not reconcilable., and getting further apart everyday.
We see it with healthcare now, one side wants single payer, the other absolutely nothing, so Obama comes up with some middle of the road plan that won’t actually do anything, and manages to piss off both.
It’s the same situation here, he’s trying to please both the military/hawks with the rest of the country.
The problem is the middle road path will only lead to disaster and both sides will be just a firm in ther mindsets as before.
At some point the leader of this country actually has to take a stand, pick a side, and lead.
We cannot take 4 years of “can’t we all just get along”.
Your nation is in pretty poor shape. So you won’t mind if the rest of us bomb you some to fix it? We could flatten Wall St and not only would we doing you a favour, we’d be helping ourselves out too. I’m afraid that “liberal hawks” are just imperialists with centrist values. You certainly aren’t on the left, because no one on the left thinks that bombing working people in other nations builds anything.
Who is?
This sentence is entirely wrong. The primary fuel of the threat our troops face in Afghanistan is nationalism. Yes, it doesn’t help that our troops are mostly Christians and Jews who have invaded a Muslim country, but the primary reason the natives are fighting back is that they are Afghans and they want us to go home.
The threat from Al Qaida is largely fuelled by a reaction to American interventionism. Yes, the very same “nation building” that you support. They hate us because we keep invading or bombing their countries, because we support corrupt leaders (I will await your article on whether the Saudi king is a “partner we can work with” or the Egyptian elite, whose oppression of Islamism did in large part fuel the growth of AQ.
It’s easy to make out that these are wildeyed nutters who are willing to kill you because they’re Muslim and you’re not, but you are missing an important piece of the puzzle. You are killing Muslims every day and your president has just sent in 30K more killers. That’s not going to make them love you.
As for your questions:
1/ This is not even an issue. It helps make the case that there’s something in it for Americans if they continue the war in Afghanistan.
2/ This has been answered many times. The intention is to pursue the same strategy as was followed in Iraq. You don’t need to capture the whole country in one go. You can progressively capture and hold sections and make it untenable for the insurgents to enter them. In time, you can step down and move on, and the insurgents no longer have any base among the local population. It was fairly successful in Iraq.
3/ Pakistan is not a problem that is resolvable with military force above what you are already using. No one knows what to do about Pakistan. Does that mean we should do nothing about anything else until we do?
4/ Obama doesn’t have any intention to withdraw whatsoever.
Lot of foolishness to respond to here so it will be long.
I’m ignoring the wall st crack because that’s just silly. I didn’t say bombing people magically makes democracy spring up, and that’s a gross generalization of my opinion. I did say that if there’s a gross disgusting despot in charge of a nation, I’m fine with using military force to remove him.
If the Iraq war had been advertised as “Saddam is butchering his people, is committing genocide, and we want to go replace him with a secular democracy” I would have been much cooler than with the fake WMD stories.
By all means let’s do it to North Korea and the other ones also.
No one is, that’s why I’m for withdrawal. There needs to be a partner to build a nation with.
Not even close. Go and listen to what the stated mission of Al-Qaeda is. At it’s heart it is a religous war. A religious civil war that we got involved in. It is not a war with Islam, it’s a war IN Islam.
Sure nationalism and us fucking up helps them recruit. I’m quite sure I give you that point in my original post (which you apparently didn’t read). But at the heart of it…deep down, it IS a religious war.
No the King of Saudi Arabia and the king of Egypt aren’t partners we can work with. But today we’re talking about Afghanistan. You seem to have missed the point that I AM FOR WITHDRAWAL.
You’re the one crying for the workers and you think this isn’t an issue? Hypocrite. When you burn the one crop these farmers can grow and leave them with nothing but a hatred of you for it OF COURSE they are going to go to the enemy. Getting something out of this builds good will and promotes free trade. I can’t possibly see your objection to it other than you don’t understand it.
Afghanistan is not Iraq. It’s a completely different ball game. Maliki for all his flaws is at least a partner that has some good faith.
No but if we admit that the problem is actually Pakistan we shouldn’t send 30,000 more to die when it won’t solve the problem.
Corporations are beyond evil. Yes. But Afghanistan will not just go away. 30 years from now we’re going to have to deal with it again. I’m all for destroying corporate power but that is a different conversation.
Maybe, but we’re here. So holding your hands over your eyes and pretending real hard won’t work.
Keeping doing the same thing over and over getting the same results is the stupid part just because we are here.
I never hold my hands over my eyes but you must have mst of your life.
When you have a problem like a Country being run by retards, Ya get rid of them. Not sit back and say oh well we are here so we must live with it.
I don’t even know what you’re trying to say.
You don’t seem to get that I am for Withdrawal. Please clarify your point in actual english that makes coherent sense.
Who benefits from use of force for nation building?
The corporations being funded by the U.S. government.
God, when will the American people wake up?
The Generals who have not won a war since WII are now all knowing about how to fight insugents, make countries out of nothing, and protect us from enemies they can’t get.
We are the fools for allowing all this in our names.
Inquisitor, a very good and thoughtful diary.
I think your 3rd point, regarding Pakistan is critical, since very few people have commented on it, rather focusing on the faulty rationale for the war presented by Obama or the lack of details in the speech, especially regarding the exit date.
If you look closely at Obama’s speech, it strikes me that he is making the argument, certainly opening the door wider, for a further escalation in Pakistan. He refers to that country repeatedly in the West Point speech and, of course, sees it as even more important than Afghanistan because it is larger and has nukes. That’s true but very, very troubling since an escalation in Pakistan would further destabilize that country and really would make this war regional in scope.
I believe this will be the next step in the Obama-Gates-Clinton strategy because the logical inconsistencies of the Afghanistan escalation are readily apparent. If we send 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan, the opposition (the few Al Qaeda left there and some of the Taliban) will simply wait us out on the Pakistani border. This is pretty much what happened in Vietnam when Nixon escalated. The Vietcong shifted supply routes and bases to adjoining Cambodia and Laos. So it it likely that the Afghan escalation, rather than winding down in mid July, 2011, as Obama promised (note that people in his administation including Gates and H. Clinton are already backing away from any date certain for exit) may just be the first step in a wider, regional conflict that includes Pakistan (at least the area adjoining Afghanistan). The Obama administration in a sense, then, is even going beyond the Bush administration in the expansion of American Empire.