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A day or two ago I posted an article praising Lawrence O’Donnell here
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/35487
I would now like to retract my kind words to him.
I give you Tonight’s Countdown.
Big story, there’s a huge Liberal devide! FDL and Kos don’t agree! So now let’s bring on..Kos, to state his view…fair enough fair enough.
And in this corner we have Jane Hamsher , FDL contributor …..someone who agrees with FDL’s position Roger Hickey for the campaign for America’s future who agrees with Kos.
I expected more from you Lawrence, I really really did. First Kucinich, Now O’Donnell
What a sad sad day for America’s left.
Did they even ask you to come on Jane?
35 Comments
Wow. Well, ever since the primary I thought Countdown was basically just an arm of the Obama campaign. Still, that’s despicable.
Or even a representative from the PCCC.
I have had a hard time watching it at all this week. Tonight, I turned it off during the first segment. The media is framing the whole health care bill as reform and if you are against it, no matter how horrible and how much of an insurance industry bailout it is, you are against reform.
Health care reform and this steaming pile of a bill are not synonymous.
It appears that the last lines of challenge to ObamaCare will be in the courts. True progressives should mount court cases challenging it (especially the mandate features). I believe that the bill will ultimately be found to be unconstitutional.
No they didn’t, but I’m okay with that.
May I be so bold and ask why you’re OK with that?
Don’t you think someone should be representing our side? Hasn’t this been the problem all along?
Well, who needs frikking APPROVAL? From people who don’t APPROVE of a principled stand?
She’d just be getting in the way of the invincibility meme that is running the DC Mediaplex by storm.
I say it’s time for retrenchment.
Great that you are o.k. But says something about the producers of Keith’s show to air the full picture of what they were referring to. The “divide”
I hear that MSNBC has an informal new policy to keep Jane off their channel after 5 pm. They apparently decided that Jane’s appearances to argue against health care would have less to do with the merits of the bill and more to do with promoting herself. C’mon, MSNBC, don’t you even want to hear what Jane has to say, or do you believe in censorship?!
Do you have any proof of that?
If so that’s one hell of a piece of news.
I pointed out long ago that Jane was black balled from Maddow and Olbermanns shows though she begged to differ. The proof is that she has not been on since she challenge Lincoln to fillibuster the bill. Sorry Jane but you are blackballed on MSNBC becuase you do not support the establishment position. I am with you though for what it’s worth.
As no one noticed how well Maddow’s access to admin & congressional heavy weights have improved significantly, is this a coincidence?
I’m also curious why you’re OK with this. Neither person on this segment represents my views on this, and I don’t think they’re representing yours, either.
I really would like to know why Jane. I’m not saying you’re doing anything wrong, I just don’t see why strategy wise you would be OK with it.
Shouldn’t we be trying to reach these people? This is the rest of the left that we need to convince.
I think (hope) Jane is seeking to fry bigger fish. Monty Karlo is right @27 in his response to dirac @8: the first rule for ensconscing and holding power is controlling the media. Reading the site today I am struck at the number of posts which refer to and examine the whys and wherefores of government action vis a vis corporate reality and vise-versa. While it is admirable that so many put so much effort into understanding these relationships, it is also depressing.
In the utterly corporatist state that is now the US of A, we have two choices: Get used to it, or start something that is beyond the reach of these behemoths.
I hope the latter is what’s up Jane’s sleeve.
I’m confused by your comment.
If the media is really what we need to be going after, shouldn’t Jane have wanted to be on the show to get in Kos’s face?
Sorry for the delayed reply, Inquisitr, got a little tied up with other things.
IMHO, Jane getting in Markos’ face is all well and good, but google “media ownership” and you’ll see why (a) it wouldn’t have made a damn bit of difference, and (b) the centrist factions of BOTH parties will always win out, in terms of who gets airtime at crunchtime.
Big Media is no different than Big Oil, Big Insurance, Big Finance, or Big Anything Else. Their first concern is profitability, and “change” is the first enemy of profitability.
To them, Michael Moore is a novelty who will get
trotted outinvited on shows specifically to perpetuate the notion that all sides are being given a fair hearing. That, of course, is bullshit.My hope is that Jane – or a big segment of we, the people, along with her and anyone else who cares to join us – will stop wasting our breath criticizing the KOs, Eds, Rachels, and yes, O’Reillys and Becks of the world for their “views,” and begin instead to see them for what they are: Actors in the corporate theater that “the news” has become, and which is concerned only with further ensconsing the power of the corporation over that of the people – and with them, the government.
I worked in the media for many years and have seen firsthand what happened to it and why, and have some thoughts on what we can do about it. I’ll be publishing what will be the first of at least two parts on this subject at The Malcontent this Sunday, March 21.
I hate to be a bother with this, but I would really like an answer to my question.
I am fine with that too. Why does Jane need to go like Kos to the corporate media and explain her positions? We know much of the corporate owned news is noise. I don’t think the battle will be won there…
It won’t be won there, but right now they reach way more people than we ever could. And those people tend to trust Countdown. Someone needs to representing us on that show.
I’s a disgrace they didn’t bring someone from FDL over to debate the Reaganite.
Actual you are wrong. The biggest weapon in marketing is market size. You Obama and others can continually argue that is a small section of the left that are opposed then you will never get the changes you need. You increase your ability ot influence the political agenda by have a larger following or lots of money. You chose, but if you want to make and impact chose you must.
Insight into Kucinich’s turnaround.
Another FDL poster points out that K’s votes have been mostly symbolic, because he is almost always in the minority. RE: war funding, single payer,etc.
When Amy Goodman asked him a few days or more ago, about his potentially being the “deciding vote” on HCR, he flinched and said to her that there are many votes, not one deciding.
Now as days passed, K found himself in a position to be of enormous influence regarding the actual survival or destruction of the bill, and this suddenly put him in the hotseat. Obama decided it was time to move in on him dirty Chicago politics style.. He was going to break this guy’s balls one way or another. Add in the gang of Rahm, Axe, who probably told him, “you wanna be the one” to break this bill? Do you want to go down in history as the spoiler.. as the one who destroyed the presidency? I will bet at that point Kucinich had no allies, and the other Dems would
**********..make him look like a Judas.. when in fact, he had the opportunity to shine in the spotlight as a profile in courage.
I just don’t think Kucinich has it in him to buck the pressure when his vote isn’t just symbolic but can change history. All in all, it has been
a tragic set of events somewhat evocative of the McCarthy era.
Mod note: Edited and released by mod.
“When Amy Goodman asked him a few days or more ago, about his potentially being the “deciding vote” on HCR, he flinched and said to her that there are many votes, not one deciding”
He was right. Obama wanted him to flip so others would follow
O’Donnell’s smirk at the end of his interview of Kucinich last week pissed me off.
His goading Kos into dumping on Kucinich pissed me off even more.
So, I really enjoyed O’Donnell’s double-take when Michael Moore responded, “I say, ‘Thank you, Mr. Kucinich,’” to O’Donnell question about what Moore would say to Kucinich if his was the vote the killed the bill.
It has been clear that O’Donnell is a dedicated Obamista ever since this bit of nonsense that he published at HuffPo in January ’08.
Yeah, the MM visit was quite a show! Right before that he was trashing on Kucinich and then was agreeing with MM about the great fight he was putting up, 435 to 1. Then MM pushed back on the 60 vote lie he’s been party to pushing on the public.
But I’ve noticed O’Donnel’s gatekeeper mentality for a long time too.
Ever since the story about Edwards affair broke and the GF was pregnant, O’Donnell admitted that he knew about it and so did a lot all of the press. In thinking about that, I was disgusted with the implications. He exposed himself to a honey pot and endangered the whole country and O’Donnell and all that knew should have threatened him with exposure or drop out of the race. They were complicit in endangering us too. Look how well that honey pot worked out for Clinton.
Countdown sucks without Keith and I’m sorry his dad died but I hope he comes back soon. Keith pushes the limits that his bosses will tolerate to the red line all the time. He has his little tabloid segments but he does confront power on some issues. At least he doesn’t roll over like Maddow and her sickening little Democratic Party steering -cheer leader episodes. I don’t enjoy her much at all anymore.
Inquisitr: I wrote the below yesterday on David Swanson’s diary, and provide it here as well. Something just told me Markos would be Larry’s guest last night…
Many of us here are distrustful of the MSM, but still we consume it. As some here know, I have been highly critical of Lawrence O’Donnell for his constant bleating about the impossibility to do substantive reform. There have lately been discussions here about his “poorly framed” question the other night to Michael Moore, when O’Donnell asked if DK should go “practical” and vote yes.
I frankly couldn’t care less about Larry O’Donnell’s employment picture or the title under which he is commenting. But if we’re going to to have an Op-Ed media rather than actual journalism, then let’s by-god get on with it. Let’s stop even pretending that facts are important, and have guys like O’Donnell come out with guns blazing fully in favor of progressive ideals, rather than commentary that deflates hope – or, when interviewing fellow villagers (and that’s all you are, Markos and Arianna) let’s swear them to uphold those same ideals rather than lob softball questions tailored to suit the particular axe (“reform”) they are seeking to grind.
The Malcontent
Isn’t it funny how the people who are now supposedly the “left” in this country, Kos, Arianna, Matthews are all former Reaganites?
Permanent Republican majority indeed.
And the assimilation of Clintonites (notably O’Donnell on this go ’round) is no less significant, because it only points to how close the “two parties” really are.
We are being played, pure and simple: The “left” and “right” go out of their way to point up the differences between them – on the media they own – during election season. This stirs righteous outrage among the citizens on either “side.” Those citizens go out and vote for the party they identify with, perpetuating the broken system. The political “foes” representing us then meet in the halls of power and compromise (read: deal)away the citizens’ rights.
Yeah I watched this last night, and was a bit frustrated that there was no opposing views. What was the point of discussing the “liberal divide” with two guys that agreed with each other? Useless.
Only bright side to the Countdown and Rachel situation that I can see:
Now I have two more free hours every evening to get things done rather than watch dogs and ponies piss and shit and call it “progress” or “reform”.
Am kind of interested to see what KO will say next week. Ironic timing, that because of his father’s death, he’ll be back the day after the final vote (now appearing to be set for Sunday). Once I get his take on passage, after that I’ll probably be an ex-viewer for good.
I’m actually of the opposite mind. I’m hoping that death of his father will have shocked him out of this so he stands firm with his “I plan to not buy insurance” protest.
His father being sick was enough for him to make the threat, maybe this will be enough to put some steel in his spine.
I know…I’m setting myself up to be disappointed, but at this point I got nothing left.
Besides, if he doesn’t, I don’t see hsi show’s ratings staying where they are. His audience tends to not like hypocrites.
You could be right, but I’m of the mind that Rachel didn’t change her colors for no reason and that the same pressure is being applied to KO. By that I mean, GE, parent company of MSNBC, has a seat on the NY Fed Board, makes lots of money from GE Capital and from defense business, and is currently in the process of trying to get around monopoly issues in trying to sell off the NBC/Uni division to Comcast. Hence there is a lot of pressure to not go off the corporate reservation.
Hope I’m wrong about KO. On the other hand, Rachel has sold out as much as DK. Very sad. I used to like her so much. The depressed feeling of being used and abused is very much in the air.
what does a loser do? Compromises before he loses again.
No doubt some people will love the new insurance they will be getting in 2014. But do democratic voters believe the Health Bill is a victory for the voter?
Don’t be too sure. Read Scarecrow’s diary concerning the Enron model and the Healthinsurance bill. Up now.
You know I am just an average mother and wife. But I pay attention to politics. You would think that something happened that CHANGED greatly the senate health care bill since it was passed on 12/24/2009.
On December 16th Countdown had on Wendell Potter who discussed…Why the Senate Bill is a big win for insurance companies
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/34455097#34455097
I followed Mr. Potter all through the summer. I followed the Ed Show. I followed Countdown. Magically after the senate passed the bill Ed Shultz, Move On and Mr. Potter supported the bill.
Can one person in the universe explain to me what changed between December 16th and December 26? See that’s why I smell propaganda. And rats. And wrong reasons. Besides Obama’s presidency-I haven’t heard one damn reason why it went from an insurance giveaway to the most important thing on earth for Democrats to pass. Not one.
If you are going to change you mind (hey Dennis!) you might actually have a reason to convince ms average housewife here. Cause I ain’t buying it.
It’s the same damn bill. (with promises for great changes-gawd how dumb do you think we are? Again I answer pretty darn dumb)
See, you’re one of the reasons they want critical thinking out of the schools. Hell, I think they want reading comprehension out of the schools so that no one will notice something as pesky as this.
It also helps that Olbermann posts at the house of Kos and the fawning of the members of his cult of personality when he does is just amazing.