After watching media coverage of the Walker coup over the last few days, I posted the following response on FOK News:
For all the confident statements of replacing the Red Republican Bastards, there will be no successful recalls or impeachments unless states get rid of computerized voting and return to the tried and true paper ballot. If it takes more time to count them, then “so be it.” Any real democracy is worth it.
America has grown accustomed to hearing the media present all kinds of divergent polling data, but the prevailing narrative always tells a story of Republicans and Democrats running neck & neck electorally — even after the most egregious Republikook rhetoric and behavior — with The Kooks always winning just enough and winning in ways and in places where they can essentially negate any gains Dem’ Dumb-dumbs might hope to realize. Remember how health care, bank, and tax reform turned out? I repeat, “Dem’ Dumb-dumbs”!
This political travesty is already repeating itself. The media is serving us constant video of recently elected Republikooks proclaiming they campaigned and were elected to attack unions and working class citizens; so, The Kooks already are claiming the majority. If those voting machines — which I suspect are rigged or hackable — stay in use, then expect recall results of such monumental irony that the Liberal base and the “Reagan Democrats” who felt compelled to vote for Democrats out of self-interest and self-preservation will be lost in the political wilderness of Conservative savages and corporate beasts, left either to fall to their knees and chain themselves in abject economic servitude or to find another country to call home. Why else would Walker and the rest of the WI ‘Kooks have perpetrated the crime they committed (that “bold parliamentary maneuver” was illegal!) if they did not have some assurance that they and their cause could overcome recall efforts? The Koch Brothers and their ilk very likely have promised the WI ‘Kooks financial security for the risks they are taking. Add that to FAUX Propaganda-News and Turd Blossom’s soon to be incessant poisonous TV ads which a lot of people seem to believe. Those voting machines are now the trigger that could produce the kind of results which would invalidate all the protests happening now as well as the core ideals of the Democratic Party. After what happened in WI, and what is happening all across America now, do you really believe the voting machine trigger won’t be pulled?
Middle America is obligated now, therefore, to make sure that the process of democracy works they way The Constitution declares it’s supposed to work. Otherwise, we may as well bow to the bigots, the corporations, and the super-wealthy plutocrats and call ourselves their slaves. We must make sure that every single one of our votes counts: We must get rid of those g-damned computer voting machines!



28 Comments

Paper trail– YES!
Just ONE of the problems is the U.S. satiety for ‘election results’ to be posted quickly. Here in CA even the E1ection Code requires the registrars/county clerks to be reporting to the SoS a half hour after the polls close.
And the media is a primary culprit. It’s truly ridiculous given that those elected don’t even begin to be able to serve for at least 2 months AFTER an national/state election.
Another of the problems is that even with a ‘paper trail’ the costs associated with a recount are prohibitive and that local authorities can set the amounts needed. And then there is the ridiculous amount that gets charged just to have somebody push a button to have printouts from the central processors.
And another is that citizens -at least in CA- no longer have access to what the proper procedures for usage of the machines are based on the idea that ‘usage procedures’ are ‘trade secrets’ and the SoS -at least here in CA- didn’t want to challenge such even though the law was on her side regarding such a challenge. Like it isn’t in the public interest to know what the proper procedures are for usage of such machines.
Which is why I will NOT be voting for Debra Bowen; she is just another ‘corporatist’.
Yeah. Honest elections would be nice. Sigh.
Hand marked and hand counted in front of your neighbors.
Once the machine in the middle you’re out.
Or you could trust Karl Roves programmer it will probably come out the same
after growing up in the great state of Mass.(health care,gay marriage,decriminalized pot) now live in the infamous state of Florida (hanging chads,right to work,Rick Scott,etc,)
I have to agree totally with paper ballots.
When I go to ATM and see the name Diebold it kind of says it all..
Funny Walker can’t get a crowd to save his life but he won in Wisconsin? I’m thinking he stole the election.
Folks have short memories – or maybe the old just don’t pass the info on.
PAPER BALLOTS DO NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. They help – as does paper trails – in that it makes massive statewide voter fraud harder.
But we had massive statewide voter fraud (with counties outside Chicago tossing black/poor ballots for voting Dem, and Chicago vote early vote ofter to offset) with paper ballots in Illinois for 20 years prior to 1960.
This is the same idea that the GOP via Bev Harris at Blackboxvoting.org (she of conservative cigar sales fame during Monica) sold the left as she got defeated the ONLY real vote guard – namely random mandated in size audits of every process involved in voting – including the vote. We had one chance for a Federal Law requiring audits – and this paper only thing derailed it.
In New York State we had hand operated lever machines until the last election in 2010. The machines worked perfectly, you walked into the voting booth, pulled the lever to the right and the curtain closed. All the names of candidates were in front of you with pull down arrows underneath each name. When you made your choices, you pulled the lever to the left, the arrows pulled back up and the curtain opened. Nobody could go back in and change your vote later, and nobody knew who you voted for.
Then New York switched to optical scan paper ballots. No privacy, you fill in your ballot behind a flimsy cardboard divider that anyone can easily look over, and when it comes time to scan your ballot, you have to carry in front of everyone to the scanning machine and feed it into the machine. The machine can jam or read the ballot incorrectly. There was nothing wrong with the old system. The only problem was some lobbyists wanted to make money selling optical scanning machines, and some political operatives wanted to rig elections.
Paraphrasing our dear genocidal murderer Uncle Joe: It’s not who votes that counts. It’s who counts the votes that counts.
Absolutely Yes! Ive thought a lot about how much media attention the Tea Party receives despite their relatively small crowd size and concluded that its just a publicity cover for rigged elections via electronic voting.
I am so tired of everyone blaming computers. In the case of computers, “I was just following orders” is actually true: computers never do anything they aren’t programmed to do, for better or worse. Any technology can be exploited for whatever purpose. Might as well blame trees for making the clubs used to bash in skulls of baby seals.
As others have pointed out, voter fraud is just as possible with paper trails etc. At least with computerized voting systems it is feasible to do a much more detailed analysis to look for fraud (Bayesian analysis, etc.) Why don’t we focus on the real problem and look for real solutions rather than knee-jerk computer bashing.
Might as well blame the guns for people shooting each other too. I wholeheartedly agree, it isn’t the technology itself that is the problem.
So then what is the “real problem.” Those who program the machines and count the votes? How do we get control of that problem then? I am no computer basher. I am a big fan of computers but the bottom line is that I don’t think we should be willing to allow those who program to count the votes. At least with paper ballots “we, the people” are still doing the counting.
Yes indeed computers are slaves of their programs. So, the problem doesn’t lie with the computers per se, it is a function of who builds, programs, maintains and can alter the programs.
Machines innocent. People guilty as charged.
Lets assume you have been coming to my house ever weekend for 6-7 years to sit down and play a friendly game of poker. As the years go by you discover that the game is rigged and I have done any and everything possible to cheat. My deception
Becomes blatant, and after awhile I arrogantly pull cards out of my pocket in front of you while indignantly rebuking your “outrageous” accusations. We are at that point! The right outright steal elections while using misdirection (A.C.O.R.N.); they suppress minority votes; Use rigged voting machines; and the corporate media is key to pulling this off. So, what can we do about it? Nothing!
First re papau’s comment; say what you will about Bev but NO ONE has done more than her to address the issues with electronic voting. The only ones’ who have come close are Brad Friedman,Bob Fitrakis & Harvey Wasserman …
Secondly, it is HAVA that screwed NY and was PUSHED thru Congress by Hoyer and the convicted felon Bob Nye.
Thirdly, HAVA established the EAC which is nothing but a bad joke and does nothing to ensure the real reliability of the machines.
Fourth, in answer to blink’s comment “At least with paper ballots “we, the people” are still doing the counting.”, not so unless a recount is demanded AND paid for; try using a foia to get an audit trail from the machines and then have a fun time decoding the trail.
Lastly, there will always be those who would seek to defraud voters but what tjbs said makes it a lot harder than it is currently to defraud and what has happened in the past,e.g.Chicago suburbs cited(and there is still the idea that JFK took Illinois because of fraud).
We talk of media control and info being controlled by just 6 companies; how many companies do you think sell electronic voting machines?
hellcat,
I’m not mad at computers. Hell, I’m using one right now! I’m mad that American citizens’ precious vote can be subverted so easily just becuase digital technology is so enthralling. And people are so gullible as to believe that the super-wealthy would never use whatever means at their disposal — and I’m talking about computerized voting now — to create election results they want. If the Koch-class can engineer Citizens United, Bluedog DemoDumbies, and now brazen fascism (the Conservative plan in WI pales in comparison to the plan for MI!), then they can hack computer voter machines.
Trying to turn this discussion into a debate about the virtues of computers is an example of the defensive red-herring tactic used by Conservatives to shift the focus away from the real issue which they cannot address directly or spin-control. There is far too much potential for easy fraud with computerized voting, and democracy-loving Americans should not allow computers to be used to miscount their votes. Especially now that we have Conservative politicians threatening to call in the National Guard on peaceful opposition, to arrest political opposition, to consider inciting violent opposition for self-serving media effect, to break long-standing laws in order to institute a narrow political and fiscal ideology without democratic debate, and generally to defy the will of the majority.
No, computers don’t do those things. The people who make them and program them and decide to exploit them for such purposes do those things. Problem is, we cannot “eliminate” the devious perpetrators, but we can take the “gun” out of their hands! I say the democratic majority damned well better take that weapon away from the anti-American minority before it really is too late to fight back and restore our representative democracy. (Even a Teabagger should be able to stomach that idea!) The potential harm of computerized voting far outweights the supposed good it creates.
I remember reading this article right before the elections back in 2004. http://discovermagazine.com/2004/may/cryptography-of-voting-machines
And then there is this:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2009/03/ca-report-finds/
And this HBO special right before the elections in 2008, that actually demonstrate hackers hacking the vote.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xW-0a0FfQ0
This is not fiction but these items just do not seem to get the focus.
As Bruce Willis discovered in the film ‘Last Man Standing‘, while in bed with a hooker in a town run by two gangs of bootleggers and a corrupt sheriff, that when two gunman hired by one gang entered his room to assassinate him, he shot the two would be assassins and knocked unconscious the hooker who set him up.
Sure enough the sheriff arrested the hooker and that was the end of the story. The chief of the Texas Rangers came to town, surveyed the situation, and said this to Bruce Willis, and I paraphrase:
‘There is an inevitable degree of corruption in all human endeavors. However, in a week I will be back and there will be only one gang ,and if there are still two, then when I leave there will be no gangs, and I really don’t care how you do it.
Moral to this story: You can’t have two corrupt gangs in town. Either one goes or they both go, and I don’t care how you achieve that end. End of story.
Sadly, I must fall back on the hackneyed but still completely relevant and timely statement:
If voting really changed anything, it would be illegal.
If my memory serves me correctly, it was number eleven but on the tablet that Moses dropped on the way down. It had something to do with a talking bush-and you can take that any way your heart desires. :>)
I’m convinced that the reason Bush won the second time in Ohio was the combo of Republican controlled government here and the Republican manufactured and controlled electronic voting machines.
Once again the Republicans are in control of Ohio and savaging the “ordinary people” of the state. As long as they’re in control it will be difficult or impossible for a Democrat to be elected.
I can’t understand why people docilely accept the hijacking of their votes. I only vote on absentee ballots since the machines came in. Though, who knows, somebody might just be discarding or ignoring those paper ballots anyway.
Allow me to walk the plank. Where I live we color in the arrow next to our candidate on a large card with large print. Then that card is fed into a scanner. So there is an electronic tabulation and the card is retained inside that voting machine for back-up. I am quite comfy with this process. I will admit that some of the touch screen units I have seen are a little too sketchy for me.
But when I read this call for a return to all paper ballots, I am asking is this person really crafty or really dumb. Come on now, you know that far more elections were stolen when a person standing next to the ballot box could stuff or remove ballots.
I have to wonder about that. Why do you suppose MI Republicans are trying to pass laws making it harder for college students, poor people, and the homeless to vote? Could it be that they (the Progressive Youth and the emergent 99′er class) might be able to snatch victory from the gold-plated fangs of the super-wealthy?
Crafty or dumb? Really? Those are the only two descriptive possibilities?
You sound like you need surgery! OK, let’s begin. My point is, using computers to vote provides a 21st Century mode for ballot tampering, whether votes are added or subtracted. The fundamental issue is the ease with which the tampering can be done. Worse, the anonymity with which it can be done only compounds the fraud: At least the people standing next to the ballot boxes in your example can be identified and prosecuted if there is proper monitoring and the political will for justice. As for the voting process where you live, it sounds like it could work as long as the initial count is based on the graphic card and not the button/link you pushed, and as long as the digital image is tamper/Photoshop-proof! That’s the problem with digital voting even in your town. If the results are based on an electronic tabulation or recording as opposed to a tangible voting document, then the door is still wide open — wiiiide open! — for some faceless, nameless hacker to subvert democracy. Back to my original point: We need to favor accuracy and accountability in vote counting over relative ease and speed. If only ease and speed were attributes of the campaign before the actual vote in America….
I hope I have removed every lesion of skepticism from your mind!
“I am quite comfy with this process”; and you also seem quite lacking in knowledge of how what you do to vote can be subterfuged. Please open your eyes to the evidence that shows that the ‘counting’ can occur regardless of how you mark your ballot.
And if the crooks are smart enough, the difference won’t be significant to cause a recount.
Let me suggest you begin your education on this issue by reading the book listed here:
http://www.democracynow.org/2007/12/17/harvey_wasserman_on_new_ohio_voting
Crafty or dumb? Really? Those are the only two descriptive possibilities?
The voting machines in my precinct have no buttons to push. You fill out your card and you feed it into the machine. Also, the machines are not online, so the “fix” would have to be coded into the software in advance of the election cycle. The software company doesn’t know in which precinct a particular machine will be placed. If the software was coded to produce republican winners and placed in a traditionally democrat precinct, it would be quickly detected. As to the motives of the author, I agree that I should have offered several choices. And “dumb” is not kind. I don’t buy into most right-wing conspiracy notions. You also have to consider brevity in your post. The original argument and some comments are saying, given the constrains of the format, that 1.republicans are rich 2. rich people own companies. 3. companies make electronic voting machines. 4. ergo, republicans are stealing elections. To quote David Gilmore on the chances of another Pink Floyd reunion, “ain’t happenin”. The reason? Thank you Bradley Manning.
Again, I don’t trust some of the online touch screens I have seen. For both security concerns and probability of errors.
And I do need surgery! How did you know? Did you hack my GE managed medical records? I have this ingrown toe nail . . . .
fortmorgan,
What?
Are you suggesting that “the fix” you talk about could not easily be coded into the software? Ofcourse it could! And it would be worth the trouble for whoever was determined enough to dictate an election outcome.
Are you suggesting that where the machines are used matters? The hack could very easily be along the lines of not counting or under-counting for one candidate in favor of another regardless of the precinct in which the vote was cast. And no, a recount would not necessarily be triggered unless the unusual result was so egregious that it could not be ignored. Not to mention the political will and courage required to even dare to demand a recount!
What does “brevity” have to do with my point? The problem I identify transcends political parties. This is about class warfare through vote tampering! The extended syllogism you offered indirectly validates this point. And, by the way, your logic is faulty: There are plenty of rich Democrats, who own companies, and who may well want to steal an election, too. The issue is whether or not computerized fraud occurred, and who perpetrated it. I believe it is appropriate to challenge the election process when poor people are supposedly voting for candidates who have, are, and will implement policies that are against their survival interests. That’s not ideological bias; That’s just common sense!
And, how does that quote and Bradley Manning relate to your point? Smells like red herring to me….
Yes indeed, there are countless ways to fix, tamper, hack any process that operates on software code. In my humble opinion, there are some electronic voting systems that can be rendered safe. Forgive me for raining on your parade. The collective “we” are not pikers anymore. Many of us can hack a system and many of us can detect unauthorized access.
Which leads back to Bradley Manning. If one wanted to steal a congressional/senatorial/presidential election it would require a conspiracy of several. Thanks to good Americans like Brad,and good Australians for that matter, someone will always blow the whistle. Not to mention that most large scale hacks end up being bragged about in an IRC.
I appreciate the back and forth. Most of life can be boiled down to a math problem. On any given day, the probability of an electronically tabulated election being stolen is no greater than that of an old fashion manual election. It is more about the people than the technology.