The writing is on the wall, get some sort of “immigration reform” that will be forwarded as the catalyst that formed the Bi-partisan coalition to pass TPP. By design, the two most , Multi-national, corporate friendly pieces of legislation will be the passed. Surprise, surprise, surprise(yes, Gomer Pyle style)! Again, we will see left unwitting participants in the kabuki.

The TPP is known to the left as a Trojan horse for all things so disgusting that corporations need to have it implemented overseas in a “Global Trade Agreement” to prevent it from ever having the prospect of being modified or eliminated through the will of the American people. There in lies its true evil. To be excessively concerned about the TPP off-shoring judicial oversight from a corporately controlled, wall-street appointed judiciary to a corporately controlled, wall-street appointed “board” seems somewhat academic. Again the real evil lies in the fact the our children, grandchildren, in the future, will be precluded from being able to fight back against what we have foisted upon them. It can only be described as shameful.

The left accepts this and forwards many facts, that are historical facts, to support the position TPP is a Trojan Horse. We have NAFTA as a prime example. I could go on and on. What the left does not do is accept the fact, that on “immigration reform” they are standing shoulder to shoulder with corporations, US Chamber of Commerce, the fact that unfettered immigration to the US has been necessary to suppress wages and render the employee helpless to fight back against a wave illegals willing to take the job for less.

“Immigration Reform” is much like “Tax Reform” or “Reforming the Educational System” ALL are sold as in the interests of the American people, ALL are being implemented to serve corporations and to weaken the worker and his ability to better his/her life—— scratch that, just to try to maintain what he/she had at one time or trying to not lose to more of that–we are going backward after all.

To demonstrate the strength of my argument:

It is bizarre to import farm labor from Mexico under the implicit belief that we don’t want to pay a wage that an American would be willing to take that job at. You should stop and think about that, it’s profound. Now understand that the corporations that run the farms pay more to import, sometimes from the center of Mexico, the labor than it would cost to pay a wage at which Americans will take the employment. Why do the corporations do that? An American would be more likely to blow the whistle on all sorts of malfeasance, we might even find out a little about the food we eat. Also, farm work would be ripe for unionization. We can not have any of that.

The mechanization in farming has rendered the argument you need immigration to “pick the vegetables” as so adverse to the facts that not even the farthest right right-winger would utter it.

That is just one example. From personal experience I saw carpenters in 1983 making 19 bucks an hour plus benefits, in 2003 that same position paid 11.25 an hour with no benefits, an absolute and direct result of the flooding of the labor market with illegal labor.

On the few work place raids that they did, largely at processing plants, the wades in the area went up immediately afterwards, you did not notice a big poultry price increase.

You can make an argument for standing shoulder to shoulder with corporate America and its desired agenda on compassionate, humanitarian and/or moral grounds, it is a good argument. It is impossible to make the argument that it is because I want a better standard of living for workers, my children, grandchildren. This is the the delusional, avoid the facts part.

As an added bonus, “Immigration Reform”, will “open up” visa so that Disney can import cheap labor rather than pay a wage that Americans will take the job at. Unfortunately this appears to be untrue as some “special immigration” does not require the job be offered to an American first. But better yet, “immigration reform”, will make sure that those who make it through college and want to make more than 35,000 dollars a years as an, engineer, computer engineer etc, wont be able to, because we can import one of almost a million graduated from China/India who are willing to work for less, much less than 35.000.

So make your argument for open borders, standing shoulder to shoulder with the corporations in implementing what they want, cheap labor and the more of it the better. But to forward the economic model that has mass legal or illegal immigration of the poor to your country as a model for prosperity is just delusional and at odds with hard facts. If immigration of the poor, to your country, was a model for raising/maintaining your standard of living countries more would be clamoring to import them, non, not one are clamoring. The opposite is true, almost to a developed country, those who rejected open borders and the corporatism that advocated for it have been rewarded with high standards of living, free universal healthcare, free university education etc etc— those who chose the corporate mass immigration path have none of that and are spending in excess of a trillion dollars a year to keep up the facade of prosperity.

So, make your open borders, libertarian argument but don’t be like a right-winger and avoid the facts, important facts, that confirm that excess labor will adversely affect the next generations by continuing what we are experiencing 20 applicants for each job, corporate Nirvana. It is the gift that you stand shoulder to shoulder with the corporations demanding that the next generation accept, irrespective. TPP is merely the cherry on top, that keeps them from fighting back.

Offered the spirit of adversarial debate on the economic benefits of importing the poor as a path to prosperity for the next generation or that open borders will lead to a higher standard of living/ better life for the next generation. Both of those arguments are at odds with the facts/history/common sense – I would like to see that challenged.

Lets debate in the fact based way forwarded by Jane . It was what brought me to Firedoglake. On interview after interview she forwarded concepts that challenged the accepted, bullshit narratives. I image knowing they, the MSM, would not be inviting her back too many times. She likely knew this. Firedoglake, to me, seemed like the most needed type website, dispensing with partisan rhetoric and making her challenges to the corrupt “bi-partisanship” by attacking it with facts. Much like Cenk, she was more interested in the facts of the matter regardless if it reflected poorly on dems. She was one of the first and only to challenge Obama’s right-wing extremism. His policies are George Bushes, most here agree,NOW .They don’t allow that kinda honesty. We don’t see her on the MSM anymore, but she is still one of my heroes for being a pioneer on the two-party, brain dead, mostly false narratives. This site should be the most fact based, engage all aspects of an argument, you should support ideas more than a politician or a political party’s rhetoric.

One of my favorite, fact based beatings offered up by Jane… I would ask on Open Borders advocacy “Who’s paying You, Lanny?” It is the right question.

Disclaimer: I do not forward that I know Jane or what she would advocate, nor her position on the above issues. I just admire her fact based debating style and believe she would deem it appropriate on this issue and most issues. Thanks Jane for all you have done and continue to do in establishing a format where fact based debate is encouraged despite your personal point of view. Enjoy the clip.