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Since I floated the call for a Dump Obama movement, I’ve gotten much helpful feedback.
My original draft, “Time for a Dump Obama movement,” was based on the broad strokes, which I believe are essentially correct. But I’ve since taken a closer look based both on these responses and from Obama’s contemptuous speech at that infamous $30,000/plate fundraiser.
First, many of the comments, I believe, took my call as something that should be done INSTEAD of what others were already doing. I was then given alternate approaches, including Vote Green, Dump the Senate, Dump the System, write-in Public Option, Don’t Vote, work the Dem primaries. Others pointed out that 2012 (when Obama would face a primary challenge) was a long ways off, and I didn’t address what was to be done with the upcoming November elections. Allow me to address them in no particular order.
I call for a movement.
Not, for instance, an organization or a campaign committee. People keep saying, you have to have a candidate first. No, the movement comes first. Is there any movement already? That’s a complicated question, since the concept of movement involves a lot of things that can’t be measured like frogs in a pot. Movements have organizations, members, slogans, actions, demands — even contradictory demands — but they are not reducible to any or all of them. A movement entails some sense of common identification. Some sense of motion, of development. A movement entails some sense of hope, to use a word that has turned to poison but must not be surrendered.
So I would answer, is there a movement? Yes. Anti-corporate, anti-political establishment.
But it is very diffuse. Not highly moralized. Its goal is not clear. No tactical focus since the Public Option healthcare fight. In the 60’s, End the War provided an over-riding goal within which many organizations, issues, strategies and indeed movements worked and contended. There is no such equivalent today. My notion is that Dump Obama can provide a common framework for all the suggestions, with Obama not a substitute for the system, but rather as its foremost representative. It provides a broad tactical focus of the 2012 presidential. Primary and independent general. MY preference is to FIRST make a strong run in the Dem primaries. But I am not the movement, for chrissake!
No candidate?
Several people have argued that Dump Obama is meaningless in the absence of a candidate.
I would not want to discourage anyone from running, or pushing their favorite candidates. But as a practical matter, the movement must precede the candidate. Thus in the 60’s, the fact that there was a vibrant and growing anti-war movement was what impelled Allard Lowenstein in 1967 to launch the official Dump Johnson campaign. It was that ready base that allowed and inspired Eugene McCarthy to throw his hat into the ring. It was McCarthy’s showing in the 1968 New Hampshire primary that showed Bobby Kennedy that a presidential run was viable.
Ironically, others have argued that a Dump Obama movement fosters the illusion that replacing a single individual will somehow change the system. They are of course correct. In fact, this is another compelling reason for working to build a Dump Obama movement before becoming overly focused on any one candidate.
After all, a movement can be built around a candidate. That is what happened in 2008. There was a vibrant Obama movement, and when he revealed himself to be a corporate hack — most egregiously in the healthcare debacle — the movement was left high and dry. It had no solid principles, no organizational vehicle, no tactic, that was not dependent on Obama’s leadership. Evidence of this was around jobs creation. After healthcare, unemployment was to be the “next big thing.” When all Obama offered was a few more tax breaks for small business, the left had nothing to offer, nowhere to go.
And now Obama thinks he can spit in our eye with impunity.
Contrast this with 1968. McCarthy lost the nomination fight in Chicago. Kennedy died. The movement did not die. The anti-war movement did run up against its own limitations, not the least of which was lacking a plan that extended beyond Nixon ending the war, and a plan on how to move away from the campuses. So it then died. It was transformed into a strictly candidate movement — the George McGovern movement in 1972 — and it went down with him. But it did not die with McCarthy and Kennedy.
This November
Some have noted that I expressed no view on the upcoming elections, and should be more vocally supporting the Greens. (I did have a post Julia Williams for Congress, Green Independent for Michigan 12 — Reflections for the record.). Good point. It was something of an oversight, but I do think the hour is late for having much of a left impact in the election tally.
But with Obama himself dumping the left — and then setting us up to take the rap for November’s expected dismal outcome — I do believe we can have an impact on how the election is framed. If Obama wants us to take the rap, we can in a sense take the credit. Any Democratic candidate who does not call for the outright rejection of Obama’s catfood commission, who does not swear to oppose any and all cuts to Social Security, and goes down, they brought it on themselves. Any candidate who embraces any compromise on ending Bush’s (and perhaps now Obama’s) tax breaks for the rich, and bites the dust, deserves it. These are not radical positions, despite the howls they evoke. Between now and November, we can make clear that as far as Democratic candidates don’t distance themselves from the unpopular Obama and his unpopular healthcare bill and his unpopular war in Afghanistan, we wouldn’t stop to piss on them if they were on fire. I’m not saying don’t give them a chance. Fair is fair. But the decision is theirs, as far as I’m concerned.
We have to make clear that distancing themselves from Obama is, if nothing else, the best way to save their asses.
Some have said Dump Obama is premature, due to the upcoming election. But they would support it after the election. That’s fine. After the election, it should be time to draw lines in the sand.
Catfood commission? Line in the sand. Big red line. Any cuts coming from that at all? Dump Obama!
Tax breaks for the rich? Line in the sand. If extended, Dump Obama!
Etc., etc., etc.
Can we actually Dump him?
Initially I hadn’t given this much thought. Didn’t care one way or another regarding whether to call for Dumping Obama. I simply thought it was time to make a stand with the best we’ve got and make a real fight of it. But in thinking of this November, I’ve been slightly reassessing that position. I think, yes, we’ve got a shot.
Allow me a few hopefully not too daring assumptions:
(1) Life for average Americans is NOT going to improve.
(2) The U.S. will remain tangled in Middle Eastern wars.
(3) The Democratic Party will NOT be engaged in massive jobs creation measures.
(4) Obama will continue his policies of appeasing the right and selling out the left.
(5) The Democratic base will become increasingly disgusted with the Democratic Party.
In that case, there could well emerge a left challenge, not to save the country, particularly. But to save the Democratic Party! Recall that in 1968 one of Bobby Kennedy’s main arguments for entering the primaries against Humphrey was that Humphrey was advocating continuation of Johnson’s war policies. So Kennedy had to run to prevent Humphrey from dragging down the entire party! (Which Humphrey indeed did.)
That possibility exists. If that’s how it came down, such a candidate would be mainstream, i.e., would not be a candidate calling for overthrowing the system. Such a candidate would enlist many current Democratic Party functionaries we would have no love for. But it would create an opening. There could be more than one challenger. One might try to hew as close to Obama as possible while making a challenge, and a more left challenger could hammer that, with the party base in play. The back-and-forth between such a candidate (or candidates) and the leading independent presidential candidate(s) would be very interesting, as the challenger would have to try to appeal to the left since Obama would leave no room to operate on the right.
An opening is only an opening. The left would still have responsibility for how to use it.
The Dump Obama base
The poor, the unemployed, the homeless, the foreclosed upon, are always lamented. In fact, some of the best laments are found on the front page of the New York Times. But laments change nothing. What is needed is organization. What is needed is mobilization. Some disparagers of Dump Obama have smugly pointed out that it will turn off labor and will turn off African-Americans, and thus can go nowhere (as though labor were more than 12%). To the contrary. Obama’s pro-labor record is miserable, and even the Times has pointed out the enthusiasm gap among labor rank-and-file. The Black community has been further devastated by Obama’s policies, or lack thereof. Will women be panicked by visions of Sarah Palin attacking abortion rights, or will they remember those rights being sold down the river in Obama’s healthcare bill?
Business-as-usual is to take note of a drop-off in enthusiasm and turnout among these traditional constituencies. “None of the above” does not appear on the ballot. We have to give “none of the above” an actual face and name, and then what would otherwise just be demographic drop-off turns into power.
Can Dump Obama get off the ground?
When I first put this out, I wasn’t sure but figured, what the hell? Worth a shot.
Now I’m convinced it can and will. People are starting to take up the call. “Yeah, Obama needs dumping,” some say. Or they comment just “Dump Obama.” People I have no idea who they are. Websites I’ve never heard of are picking it up. Then there are the near-hysterical responses at the very mention of it. You’re ruining everything, I’m told. However confident I may or may not feel, the notion strikes fear among those who should feel fear. They know their hold is tenuous, they know it better than we do.
Paul Rosenberg of OpenLeft devoted an entire diary to denouncing metamars for doing a quick hit on OpenLeft on my piece. It got 210 comments. Today I received the ultimate endorsement from Rosenberg, in response to a rather mild comment about trying to hold the Democrats to their principles.
I really have no time for the likes of you, Jeff. You are probably the most effective force in demobilizing the left so far as building electoral power goes.
I don’t know whether to be honored or pissed.
So someone asked me, did I think Dump Obama was going to go viral. My answer today: yes.



80 Comments

I agree there has to be a movement first… in fact, it might even make Obama reconsider whether to run again in 2012. Think about LBJ’s decision not to run again. He was smart enough to know that he could not run on his war record. Obama may need a nudge to figure that out.
Also, Nature abhors a vacuum. Given the right movement and circumstances, a possible primary challenger just might arise. (I’m thinking of Elizabeth Warren!)
You’re doing a great job, Jeff. Keep up the good work.
I’ve been thinking ahead a little bit and it occurred to me that the best outcome would be for Obama to announce that he will not run for a second term. For obvious reasons, that must happen far enough in advance of the 2012 Democratic Convention to allow candidates to decide to enter the race and campaign for the primaries that begin in New Hampshire. In other words, he needs to make that announcement no later than the end of next year and preferably no later than next summer.
That’s less than a year away.
DUMP OBAMA!
Editor’s note: See About Us — Diaries and comments expressed by each of The Seminal’s community members are the opinions of the individual community member author and do not reflect the opinions of The Seminal or Firedoglake and its affiliate sites. Any efforts to organize on Facebook or other social media in response to this post are not affiliated in any way with The Seminal or Firedoglake and its affiliate sites.
Although I understand the feelings, Obama is not going to be dumped. He will be the nominee no matter what. Our time would be better spent working on policies.
Perhaps it would be good to precede EVERY Seminal post with this Editor’s note. Just in case.
did Rayne, our editor here at seminal, just remove the facebook links from your post? it’s not the cracking of the whip that is so terrible, it’s the utter randomness of it.
~~ No, I did not remove any Facebook links from this diarist’s post. The only changes made were the additions of editor’s note and modification of the headline to confirm with site standard (up-and-down style with reduced punctuation). -Rayne ~~
No, just posts which end up being used on Facebook implying they have the support of The Seminal, FDL and its affiliate sites.
Diarists and commenters do not speak on behalf of the FDL family of sites.
Feh…trying to work within the “Democratic Party” to change it will only get you a skullful of knots to show for your efforts.
Obama and the corporate Democratic machine couldn’t care less what we need. They’re pursuing their own agenda, “base” be damned.
Jeff is spot on about what’s going to happen in November. Voter turnout is going to be dismal, and the Democrats will have no one to blame but themselves.
Great post Jeff, keep up the good work. At a min. we need to primary the bastard. Dr. Dean comes to mind in that capacity. He’s been treated disgracefully by this admin., especially considering the fact that he laid the ground work for their being elected. His reward has been to be thrown to off the bus and stomped upon. Obama needs to be dumped no doubt about it. We need to return the favor. If he thinks were ungrateful now just wait.
No problem. I didn’t know what was the trigger.
Could my skull get any thicker?
Anyway, the point of Dump Obama is not to impress Obama, since I have fewer millions than his corporate donors. Rather it is to provide an electoral rallying point for progressives both Democratic and independent.
LBJ didn’t drop out knowing that he would have a soft landing at a Hedge Fund, or Investment Bank’s Board of Directors! LBJ apparently had a conscience, and a sense of consequences, unlike Obama.
I have a feeling that Barry knows he’s become the poster child of the Peter Principle, and this is as far as he’s going. One termer! That’s the ticket!
Keep it up, Jeff.
Personally, I’ve already dumped Obama and the Dems. Among many things, I just can’t support a party that allows the president to kill American citizens at will.
But who knows? Maybe your efforts will result in a challenger to Obama who actually means what they say. So for that, you have my enthusiastic support.
Glad you’re continuing this Jeff. My own write-in preference for this election is “Obama Resign.”
It’s nice to know that those who run this site think their readers are stupid enough to need such an obvious disclaimer.
I thank many of you for your encouragement. It makes a difference in being able to keep going. This is going to catch on.
When the alternative is Wallstreet Democrats I see little choice. Wallstreet Democrats are basically Republicans with a bit less racism.
Ain’t power a bitch Jeff? When something like this takes off and the political hacks start attacking you know what power can do.
Those who know what is best for us will try to stop this movement with every tool they have. It will not work the genie is out of the bottle.
The Democratic platform is already in the minority.
Protecting Social Security (cat food commission). Healthcare *REFORM* (not mandating the same failed paid-protection racket that is private health insurance) Reproductive rights (HCR, no abortion coverage). Bottom-up economic philosophy, (instead of the top-down philosophy of continuing Bush’s Wall Street bailouts, supply-side “economic stimulus” 1/3rd of which were tax-cuts, more proposed business tax-cuts for equipment, which will be invested in automation resulting in more lay-offs, proposed R&D tax-cuts, which will also result in more lay-offs in the long-term). I’m not against innovation, but there are sectors (renewable energy etc.) in which R&D would create more jobs in the long-term.
The fundamental Democratic philosophy (and most of the Democratic platform) is already in the minority. If SS is going to get cut anyway, it may be better for a republican majority to get the blame for that (instead of further destroying the Democratic Party brand).
The Democratic party came into power in 2008 with a reputation and some credibility on economic issues that was built-up over several decades. The party brand is *a lot more important* than one administration. I think it will take an outright rejection from Democratic voters of the top-down, put-corporations-first policies of the Obama administration to prevent the destruction of the Democratic Party brand.
Dump Obama in 2012 is certainly an option. But I’ll again ask a question you have repeatedly refused to answer, and please remember, it is coming from someone who until about three weeks ago advocated not voting:
For THESE (2010) midterms, I’d like to know what you have against, and why you are not advocating in favor of…
(1) Voting for progressive Democrats who have defeated incumbent Dems in primaries;
(2) Voting for candidates from unquestionably Left-affiliated third parties (Greens, Socialists, Working Families, etc.); or,
(3) Writing-in the words “PUBLIC OPTION” or “MEDICARE FOR ALL.”
…so we end up with a quantified, widely reported expression of The Left’s anger with the Democratic Party Establishment and this president?
Yes, so The Right can claim it as theirs. Good plan.
In the above, I have stated:
and:
Plus I have written an entire diary in support of Julia Williams for Congress, Green Independent for Michigan 12 while you still advocated not voting.
I have nothing against (1), (2) or (3), though on (1) we may not agree on all the details. As for (2) and (3), though I support them, I doubt that they may have much impact. Too late in the game, forces supporting them too weak. Write-ins will not register. Non-voting is likely to be the more common of protest, despite the fact that they do not really register as more than a mid-term statistic.
That is why I argue that the best fight we can make is over the framing of November, countering the inevitable charge that Dem losses are the “fault” of the left.
I would also ask, what about “Writing-in the words ‘PUBLIC OPTION’ or ‘MEDICARE FOR ALL.’ ” or voting Green in races where there are what you call progressive Democrats running? See there are all sorts of issues here, with the current state of the left.
Here’s a suggestion to help dump Obama: A Convention next June of those who support peace and human rights, and then a nominating Convention the following June: IGLO: Independents, Greens, Libertarians, & Others: The “Others” would include people now unregistered and those in other parties, such as third parties, and Democrats like most of us, and probably even some Republicans are ready to flee their party’s counter-productive ways.
Let’s organize and push for positive change.
Two can play at that game. Perhaps every comment should begin with the following:
[Commentor's note: The editorial and moderating policies enforced by The Seminal reflect the opinions of the blog and do not reflect the opinions of [insert commentor's name here].]
Perhaps someone could simply do the right thing as an organizer and get their own website, instead of using FDL and The Seminal and implying support for their effort.
It’s both lazy and cheap to mooch website hosting from another organization. It says something about the abilities to actually do the real work of organization required behind a movement when folks can’t be bothered with launching their own site.
Especially when blog sites and templates are free to be had.
There’s a legal issue here, which you in particular do not seem to grasp. Diarist jeffroby appears to grasp this at (10), if you don’t.
Perhaps you don’t know about the first iteration of the Facebook page put together for this movement — it implied FDL/The Seminal supported this movement — yet the person(s) behind it never contacted FDL/The Seminal to ask permission.
Most FDL/Seminal readers are smart enough to realize this is not acceptable; they also realize that legitimate movements invest some time and effort into their own infrastructure.
It’s nice to see the Seminal taking the step of distancing itself from a blog RATHER THAN telling people what to write and how to write it, which is what I have seen here several times before.
I presume that it won’t be long, though, before FDL bans blogs that step outside its very narrow realm of allowable faux dissent. A safety valve, after all, is intended to suppress dissent, not to empower it. But for now, at least it allows such blogs to be published, albeit with an editorial scarlet letter?
What we need to recognize about dissent from the corporatist Democratic Party is that such dissent MAY be a minority view within the party, but it may potentially be a majority view in the general population. The overwhelming majority of Americans seem to be fed up with both parties. Half are so fed up, it appears, that they don’t vote at all. Most of this frustrated population leans left. An articulate and principled Left movement could change the political landscape. This wouldn’t happen overnight. Many who lean left are heavily influenced by media propaganda and many do not even realize that they lean left, because they have been turned around by the media and political establishment as to what Left is (Obama = socialist, etc.). A real Left movement would have to persist against heavy weather, but if it did persist, I think it could prevail.
Such a movement should be independent. That is, we should be able to support those few Dems who are actual progressives/lefties. The idea of having a sort of ecumenical left convention is a good idea.
What we have seen in the US and Europe, Australia, etc., is that ostensibly Left parties that, once elected, govern as rightwing parties, ultimately fail in elections. People get sick of voting left and then not getting left. By contrast, we have seen in Venezuela and elsewhere that running as left and then governing as left CAN be a winning combination (isn’t that just amazing?)!
We, as a movement, should try to liaise with the libertarian right. Many libertarians and lefties are starting to believe that common ground can be found on the right and left, and it may even be possible that – if we do some heavy lifting in the realm of political and economic theory – differences can be overcome. We should not assume that all possible political ideas have already been thought. The role of government, the role of property, the nature of economy – if we can move forward in conceptualizing these areas we may be able to break down divisions, some of which may be more apparent than real.
I believe that both ‘major’ parties, Pubs and Dems, dread the day when we realize our own potential power as a movement that moves beyond dissent, that irresistibly demands the right to govern, by galvanizing the Will of the People, with ideas that actually make sense.
It’s important to remember that there is a distinction between an organization and a movement. At this stage, building a Dump Obama organization would be premature, although I would not discourage others.
Certainly those advocating the “cause” of supporting the Democrats are not considered moochers, nor those who have promoted Green candidates. Or any number of causes.
Last time I checked this was the Internet age, and ideas can catch fire in a day – or less.
How are you using “not register” here? Do you mean the written-in phrase(s) will not register, i.e. show up in the vote counts? If so, you are wrong. Every vote, write-in or otherwise, is tabulated. Ask any Board of Elections.
If you are using it in reference to adequate numbers of prospective write-in voters not being registered to vote, you are wrong again, as a quick look at any recent polling will show. So I’m not sure I understand what you’re saying here, and almost certain that you don’t either.
They don’t “register” that way at all in the national media, which is the target of the message. The national media report non-votes as “apathy.” ‘Twas ever thus.
So still, Jeff, and with due respect because I value and totally get your enthusiasm, you’ve done nothing to convince me that the urgency of “Dump Obama” (per your diary’s title) should, right at this moment, trump pursuing a clear, quantified statement that we, The Left who are being overtly marginalized by the Party machine daily, still have the chance to make right now, in the 2010 midterms.
Can you NOT, for all these reasons, see the sense in using “Dump Obama” as the bat with which to beat him AFTER the elections, after that statement is made?
Candidates and campaigns who come here cross-post their content from their own sites.
They don’t expect FDL/The Seminal to host their site, nor do they imply in any way that they have the support of FDL/The Seminal without express permission.
And if you have the time to post this much content here and set up a Facebook page dedicated to a movement, you have more than enough time to set up your own page. It takes about 10 minutes flat in my experience to set up a site using a Gmail account and Blogger, and they’re free.
malcontent, by all means carry out your plans. I’ve made clear as I can that I am not trying to dissuade people from the efforts you and others are making. Not trumping anything.
But by “register,” I mean have much impact. That is my evaluation. I frankly hope that I am wrong, as they could give Dump Obama a good kickoff. Yes, ideas can catch fire in a day. But few actually do.
I’ve worked for a lot of 3rd parties over the years, Human Rights in Michigan, Peace & Freedom in California, Barry Commoner’s Citizens Party, New Alliance Party, even Perot’s Reform Party. Of all the tactics you’ve enumerated before, I think 3rd party is the best shot for 2010.
I’m not telling you NOT to do something. But I’m doing something else. Professional politicians plan years in advance. Why should we do less?
I have in no way implied that I “have the support of FDL/The Seminal.” I have no candidate and am not running a campaign. I am arguing for an idea. Many people do so here, including yourself.
I had nothing to do with setting up the Facebook page other than talking about Dump Obama in general. I am not a movement.
I just looked at the Facebook page for Dump Obama, and saw that it gave as Location my first diary on the subject.
I have asked the chief administrator to remove that reference, as it is not really needed, and I certainly don’t want to contribute to any misunderstanding. My apologies for any confusion this may have caused.
Obama is the logical outcome of the years of DLC(Repug-lite)takeover of the Democratic Party and liberal-progressive politics. When you dance with the devil, the devil don’t change, you do! Bill Clinton thought it a clever strategy for a democratic resurgence but all it has ended with is this incredible disaster where the party’s base is all but ready to not just dump Obama but the whole friggin’ mess of a party! Good! Let the electoral debacle begin and then let’s clean house and retake the Democrat Party with new faces and old values!
They also work TOGETHER. You say you’ve looked at the stuff I and others have put up here about retaking the Democratic Party, Jeff, but if you had, you’d understand that voting third party is ONE of a select few items which tallied together can send a strong message. I think you know this on one level, but it’s that understanding thing I’m not feeling from you.
Ignoring it or choosing not to promote it as part and parcel of a years-long strategy is certainly your choice. I just don’t see why you wouldn’t.
Good luck, at any rate.
Yes.
I don’t think the disclaimer is for FDL readers; I’d say it’s for outsiders who, without it, would claim that FDL was leading the charge.
You’re right about LBJ… no soft landing for him. He was also someone who would fight for legislation that he had promised. In fact, he was known for the “Johnson Treatment” he would give other members of congress, where he would look down on them from his towerig height, leaning over them, so they’d have to bend backwards a bit.
I think that voting 3rd party is the most effective of them.
I notice some grumbling about your disclaimer. I think you (and Jane of course) are doing a great job. None of my subversive crap has ever been censored on this board. Keep up the good work.
Obama, Reid, And Pelosi blew it, simple as that.
Nobody but true believers is buying the handwringing about the impossibility of using the largest majorities in a generation to pass meaningful legislation or that the pathological insistence on bipartisanship was anything but a cover for screwing the progressive base, or that Obama is really so stupid as to think that the best way to negotiate is to concede at the beginning that you are willing to toss all your bargaining chips.
Obama got his name on some impressive-sounding legislation with “reform” in the title – about as meaningful as Bush’s Clear Skies Initiative or Healthy Forests Initiative – and that’s apparently all he really wanted. There is nothing Obama has passed or initiated that can’t be easily undone by a few executive orders or lax Republican enforcement. Medicare for All would have been permanent.
Carter was a better president.
Johnson would be remembered along with FDR as one of the all time Democratic greats – were it not for his intransigence re the Vietnam war. His record of accomplishment minus that is stunning.
Obama is leaving footprints in the sand.
Correction:
Obama is leaving footprints in the wet sand at the water’s edge.
There! Fixed that for you.
Yeah, it was too bad about that war bringing him down. He might actually have passed a health care bill, if he’d had another term.
I am happy to see non Republicans eager to dump Obama in the 2012 election. I would be even happier to hear a chorus calling for his immediate resignation. If the whole country were to rise up and drive Obama from office I would be so happy I would puke. If the people would then shut down the U.S. Senate and dissolve the Roberts Court I would be in eternal bliss.
Sorry this is just misleading
LBJ by 1968 was a millionaire several times over, thx to some shady cash payments made by his political backers like Brown & Root and various Big TX Oil interests mostly, going back to his time in Congress in the 40s. And Johnson’s scheming as a congressman to arrange for favorable advantages for the media outlet his wife was able to purchase in Austin was by itself an enormous financial windfall for the Johnsons. Etc etc (see Caro, Rbt, vols 1 and 3 espec).
Jeffroby:
Also misleading, and muddled in the historical chronology. RFK didn’t factor in HHH at the time he announced — LBJ was still assumed to be running for another nomination and term. Kennedy expected to be facing Johnson not Humphrey. Then 2 wks after Kennedy announced, Johnson withdrew. Several days later, iirc, HHH got in. But he was too late to put his name on the ballot in any major contested primary, so there never was a direct RFK vs HHH primary battle.
Correction accepted, although Kennedy did make the argument that he was jumping in because the war was going to drag the party down.
BRAVO! VIVA IMKA! An independent left is inevitable. Non billionaire Americans are mere subjects of Imperial Washington. An independent left may recruit from the Democrats but ultimately must oppose and defeat them.
DUMP OBAMA must be fully acknowledged as an attack from the Left. We cannot allow the MSM to attach it to the Teabagger movement which is defacto Republican. The MSM is already broadcasting “Take back Congress” on behalf of Republicans/Real Americans/Teabaggers. As if the consensus is already that the populationwants Republicans and their policies to return which are exactly a bigger nightmare.
It must be made clear that that which the Teabaggers want is worse.
There is a threading of the needle here that is complicated.
That said, I support DUMP OBAMA.
KarenM:
But by early 1966 even, senators especially were growing increasingly distrustful of Johnson, and somewhat resentful of the Treatment which, after that year, no longer worked so well. Vietnam escalation and resentment by senators over the deceptive Gulf of Tonkin Res, which Johnson had assured many of the anti-escalation senators was not going to be used as a pretext to later go to war, began to work against Johnson and the Credibility Gap emerged.
Dems in Congress and Dems and libs in the country weren’t just appalled by Johnson’s War — they were increasingly feeling they’d been lied to about it by LBJ. They resented him for it. Feelings ran very negative towards him and were profoundly, deeply bitter among the antiwar left and many youth.
Contrast that growing widespread and deep feeling of antipathy towards Johnson over a hugely costly and bloody war, with today and the Dems mid-sized disappointment over Obama’s somewhat-to-very disappointing performance so far — mostly over the sluggish economic recovery. The deep-seated antipathy and dislike of the president felt by so many, and growing in numbers by the month, seen back in 1968 against Johnson was far more intense and widespread among the Dem base than today’s feeling that Obama has merely let down the base.
Iow, in 1967-8, Dump Johnson leaders like Allard Lowenstein had a great deal to work with before they found someone to step forward to carry the banner. Short of a major double-dip Recession or even Depression, Obama by late 2011/early 2012 is very unlikely to be nearly as widely despised by his base or major portions of his party as LBJ was at the comparable time in his presidency.
Moreover, a Dump Obama movement, absent such further deterioration of the economy, is easily going to split the party along racial lines, Obama still currently being strongly supported by the A-A community. Much too early to be plotting to run someone against BHO, and things would still have to get worse in the economy or a major escalation militarily in one of our wars or with Iran, to get the base united sufficiently to go against him or get him to step aside.
Good caution. There are 2 mitigating factors. The first blow would be a run in the Democratic primaries. Secondly, dumpers need to put forth progressive reasons, such as the war in Afghanistan.
That said, there are some interesting potential dynamics. Consider the healthcare bill. The mandate. Many are disturbed at that. The right is now attacking the bill because the insurance companies are raising rates to compensate for the bill’s provisions.
This plays into an anti-corporate thrust coming from left and right. Why is this happening? Because there was no public option to offer an alternative to the insurance industry.
I don’t want to get into bed with the teabaggers. But at the base level, things aren’t simple left and right, Dem and Republican. Independents are a wild card. There are realignment possibilities if we can respond to them.
Was thinking dry sand in a windy desert, but okay.
I’m not sure if your take is completely accurate. The opposition from the student left was indeed intense, but mainstream America still believed. How much of the opposition to Johnson was a Beltway thing based on the war going badly? Still, your comment is helpful.
But let’s take the differences a bit further. What happens if the recession takes a second dip? Will the unemployed continue to suffer in silence? Middle East is volatile. Here’s one difference. During LBJ’s regime, the U.S. was at the height of its empire. Today, the notion of an empire in decline is taking hold. How much more rage is directed against the entire Beltway system? How does that play out, with Obama the system’s representative?
The situation is volatile, and the system is fragile, despite a smug demeanor. If everything is hunky-dory in a year, Dump Obama may fizzle. But are you counting on everything being hunky-dory?
Obama’s HCR, in total, is a sick joke on us and a boondoggle for AHIP. It is also one of the primary reasons for major disappointment in Obama.
Surely, any components of HCR that are signature improvements are on the table for surgical removal by empowered Republicans. Republicans will not eliminate the unpopular Mandate to Purchase Health Insurance.
That is the component of HCR that AHIP wants to keep. So they shall keep it. There will be Kabuki, but AHIP will retain the Mandate.
IN return, AHIP will shower Republicans with Campaign Contributions. AHIP prefers Republicans for all the same reasons that we despise Republicans.
Unlike the more flexible Democrats, Republicans can always be counted on to protect AHIP from the insureds.
Thus setting the Republican base against the party leadership. If the Republican base can be turned against party heads from a progressive direction, there is opportunity. In some regards there might be similar dynamics concerning the Patriot Act.
Dicey business.
Increasingly in 1967 the public, according to the polls I’ve seen in the standard works like Dallek, was turning against the Johnson approach to the war. Part of that discontent was antiwar, part a dislike of LBJ’s perceived “half-hearted” less than all-out approach to waging war. By early 1968, the majority/strong plurality of those polled didn’t believe in his war policy, and consistently his job approval numbers were seriously in the red, the war being so integral to the overall assessment (as the economy is today for Obama). And all the while stubborn LBJ just didn’t seem to want to budge from his hawkish position.
As for the Beltway, not sure I follow you. Until early 1968 and Tet, which showed to even the establishment go-along mindset that all was not well with our war effort, until then Johnson had the MSM in his pocket. Then Tet, and finally someone like the previously pro-war Walter Cronkite spoke out to question the whole thing. Only in 1968 did most of the corp media begin to voice skepticism about Johnson’s policy.
Re next yr and a possible double-dip for Obama, I’ve already noted this is one thing which could cause his current fairly good base support to badly erode, and even among the A-A community, as expressed by the black woman at the recent town hall. We’ll see where the economy is a year from now. Right now, it looks like Obama is making some changes with economic advisers — Eliz Warren is a good start, but who will replace Summers? Another Wall Street enabler, or someone experienced who can also have credibility with the base? He needs to choose wisely here.
And more importantly, somehow begin to do things which can kick this economy back into growth mode and get unemployment down. Going into 2012 with 9% or higher unemployment, if that is still the case, would not be recommended for a president wanting re-election or even a smooth re-nomination. If that is the gloomy situation 12 months from now, then we could well have a viable challenger from the left. Who that would be, I don’t know.
No, Obama isn’t likely to be as despised – for good reason – as Johnson was. OTOH, nobody has much reason to love him. Even the AA community has noticed the same things we have and support has waned considerably there also.
Still, the antiwar movement is growing, people are getting tired of these endless wars, and Obama has none of the real accomplishments LBJ did.
“Moreover, a Dump Obama movement, absent such further deterioration of the economy, is easily going to split the party along racial lines, Obama still currently being strongly supported by the A-A community.”
Right – and this will easily been seen as a middle class racist movement to remove the first black president. Clinton enforced Iraq containment – many Iraqi children died – no one called for his removal. Many of the problems Obama is facing today started in the Clinton era – no calls to remove the man. This antipathy shown towards Obama is racially tinged – even if you don’t realize it.
Jeff – I agree with you in many ways, but I think your tactics hurt the cause. Instead of a negative slogan such as “Dump Obama”, which is negative and divisive, how but something more positive and forward thinking? Something like “True Progressives For True Change”.
I’m sure that Obama would “be more comfortable with his own kind,” which would be neolibs on economics and neocons on security, foreign affairs, rule of law, civil liberties, and presidential powers. Moreover, he is “uncomfortable” abortion and gay marriage. Sound to m like he’s a Republican. So I hereby invite him to switch parties.
Excellent point, and one we ignore at our peril.
I worked long and hard in the A-A community here to get this man elected, and if people think that community is going to blithely agree in great numbers that he’s doing a bad enough job not to warrant re-election – not to mentioned what might be perceived as a white-people-driven move to have him denied re-election – I can promise you that’s a terribly oversimplified, grossly underinformed conclusion.
Further, the strong possibility of Obama’s “capture” by the party establishment exists. (A worthy discussion of Senatorial capture is here.) I think it is quite probable, in fact, that the party establishment realized Obama’s re-election was assured the day he was nominated (let alone elected), and has been capitalizing on it ever $ince.
Sorry, I immediately pictured a beach, but your desert will do just fine. Those footprints are even more ephemeral.
And the AA community must feel more of the impact of the ongoing warfare…
So sad, though.
In my lifetime, I have never seen the kind of political opportunity Obama had and squandered. I’m over 60, btw.
With the disastrous result of the Bush years so blatant, fiery use of the bully pulpit could have bludgeoned his own party and even some scared Republicans into passing his high speed rail and other green initiatives for jobs, raised taxes on the rich, straightened out our broken infrastructure, cleaned up the broken electoral process, restored civil rights – OMG, I’m just getting started.
All it would have taken is conviction, courage, and leadership. Because he never had the first, we’ll never know about the other two, but I think that with our help – and we were dying to help – he could have pulled it off.
He could have had masses of people in the streets demanding single payer and an end to our ruinous wars. Corruption could have been prosecuted, hastening the destruction of the Republican party.
It could have been a much different world when he left office.
From the Black is Back organization the upcoming D.C. March:
It’s not so simple. There is of course a Black establishment which will support Obama no matter what, but Obama has in fact not been good for the African-American community. This is ANOTHER fight to be had.
Just as there is a fight to be had within the gay community. Just as there is a fight to be had within the women’s movement. Just as there is a fight to be had within organized labor. That there will be these fights is a given. These fights are long overdue.
While I think looking for a replacement for O is very premature at this point so far removed from the first primary contest of 2012, I do agree with this narrow point about avoiding the “Dump Obama” language. In ’68, disaffected Dems could use Dump Johnson with credibility and gusto, since he had become by then so widely disliked.
Obama as I’ve tried to suggest is not nearly in Lyndon’s category as a despised president. LBJ engendered deep distrust and hatred among the left. With Obama, the feeling is one of relatively benign disappointment, deep disappointment at worst. But not hatred. You can still work with and try to influence leaders who are disappointing you. With those you hate, you go to war against them.
Now, with a continued bad economy, some timid and clueless same-old, deck chairs-Titanic personnel adjustments after the midterms, and maybe a few more snarky admin remarks about liberals, maybe then the base will be fed up enough so you could get away with calling it Dump Obama. But right now it’s too personal and direct against a rather likable fellow who hasn’t yet shown, like Lyndon, that he’s completely ignoring us.
I’m getting away with it now. Likable to you, maybe. Smirkingly arrogant to me. Even the White House is getting hysterical about the “enthusiasm gap.” Apparently, a lot of people are liking him less. Enough to provide critical mass.
Just for the record, and so we can be absolutely clear, who does speak “on behalf of the FDL family of sites”?
One of the more annoying tendencies by “Open” Left owners is to do the exact same thing they criticize “lesser” bloggers for, such as using quick hits to criticize other members.
Oh, and why is Jeff’s entry singled out for this “editor’s note” when no one else’s has been? Rayne, I am asking you to stop abusing your moderator position.
Jeff, please continue to post the Dump Obama Movement diaries. I believe that this movement could be more effective than any protest vote. I support the different protest vote ideas but they will have little real
effect.
The democrat party operatives are doing what they always do when they can’t control the message they try to undermine anything they can’t control.
Look at the response you have gotten here and elsewhere real support from many and real handwringing and garment wrending from the dem establishment.
Keep up the good fight, Movements bring about change political parties never will.
Thank you. Responses have been gratifying. I will.
The language is good. We could also try Wigwam’s idea. “Obama, Switch Parties!” Language like “True Progressives for True Change” is just a slogan. And “change” is now a dangerous word unless it’s “Obama, Change Parties”. And it also implies that we have “the truth”. I find Sirius Left’s announcement on the breaks “the truth is on the left” offensive. The truth isn’t on either side in our corrupted political system. When Democrats lost their labor roots and strong tough labor language, they became mushy. “Dump Obama” or “Obama is a Republican” “Down with Crony Capitalism.” “Dump ‘Em All”.
Obama is deeply conservative and is happy and comfortable with the elites. The Democratic Party turned away from a robust manufacturing European style economy in the late 1970s. Time for everybody to wake up. A Dump Obama movement though, I agree, must have AA support. Has anybody asked Glen Ford or others over at blackagendareport.com?
A touchy issue. But if we just sit back, the Black establishment will denounce Dump Obama as racist. That’s why they’re “establishment”! Yet unemployment, homelessness and foreclosure hit Black families harder than anyone. Efforts will have to be made to BYPASS that establishment.
That will ultimately take some boots on the ground. Sooner is better than later. No getting around it. But the chances of ANY progressive agenda, I believe, will face this necessity. No matter what anyone calls it.
I wish Van Jones could run. I heard him speak at a Media Reform conference and he was electrifying. I’m also waiting for a really great Latina woman to run and, if so, I’m there. But that is still a ways away.
Yes, by all means, keep it up Jeff.
The Dump Obama Movement is really about the system we live under not Obama he just represents the system today. Trying to actually replace him in the primaries is a pipe dream and who do you choose to run against him another corporate dem?
I think the KISS principle should be followed even though i would add Dump Capitalism and Dump War later.
Just adding a comment to express support. Keep it up Jeff!
I think we should have a “Dump Obama Moneybomb”. The proceeds would go to paying for ads in student newspapers, urging people to, well, dump Obama. (And explaining why. No laughable Tea Baggerly notions like “he’s a Marxist-Muslim”.)
How about a movement thats not expressly dedicated to some manifestation of electoral politics or personalities? I think a movement dedicated to fostering class consciouness and solidarity based on economic and moral principles would be more effective. To start with, once you declare yourself as being anti this personality or that, you have divided yourselves, and your serving personalities. The personalites are irrelevant right? A unified popular movement forces the personalities to deal with us.
I think what you are suggesting might be preferable. However, in the short run, I do not think it possible. Gotta take that into consideration. “Class consciousness and solidarity based on economic and moral principles” just doesn’t fit on a bumper sticker.
Dump Obama, on the other hand, has a certain catchy gut appeal. Within a Dump Obama movement, there would be a broad range of opinion, from neo-Bolsheviks to opportunistic liberals.
I’m well aware of the shortcomings of personality politics. (Just check out who’s sitting in the oval office.) But that is the coin of the realm. If we had a “unified popular movement,” we would be in good shape. But you don’t say, hey, let’s form a unified popular movement. My hope is that Dump Obama could lead to that unified popular movement. It’s going to be a long, hard journey. It’s going to be ugly and messy because we are not dealing from a position of strength.
In AA, they say that the road to recovery begins with “bottoming out.” I think the Healthcare debacle was that bottoming out. If so, if the left wakes up in the gutter wondering how it got there, that could be a new beginning.