Gabby Giffords was clearly a very courageous woman talking with MSNBC so calmly after her office was vandalized after her health care reform vote, in March of 2010:
GIFFORDS: Community leaders, figures in our community need to say “look, we can’t stand for this.” This is a situation where — people don’t — they really need to realize that the rhetoric and firing people up and, you know, even things, for example, we’re on Sarah Palin’s targeted list. But the thing is that the way that she has it depicted has the crosshairs of a gunsight over our district. And when people do that, they’ve gotta realize there’s consequences to that action.
TODD: But in fairness, campaign rhetoric and war rhetoric have been interchangeable for years. And so that’s — is there not, is there a line here? I understand that in the oment it may look bad, but do you really think that’s what she intended?
GIFFORDS: You know, I can’t say, I’m not Sarah Palin. But I can say that in the years that some of my colleagues have served — 20, 30 years — they’ve never seen it like this.
And note Chuck Todd’s idiotic “defense” that campaign rhetoric has borrowed from war rhetoric over the years. Giffords brushes him off, noting it’s much worse now than it ever has been. Care to walk that defense back now, Mr. Todd?
h/t Kateoplis



119 Comments

Wow, it’s eery. She expressly notes that Sarah Palin’s use of the rifle site crosshairs sends a dangerous message.
Hey, Chuck: “In the moment”, it sure as hell looks pretty bad right now. :o(
Thanks so much for positing this.
stupid book salon…never been able to open one of those pages…must be the auto refresh or sumfin…grumble grumble
“Care to walk that defense back now, Mr. Todd?”
Um, Jim, you surely are not naive enough to ask that Q seriously.
Alan Grayson just sent out this statement by email:
People like Palin know that they are sending marching orders to the killers out there.. They kill doctors, gays, blacks, lefties and whomever these right wing creeps want out of their world.
Palin is clearly one of the causes of this sort of violence and she panders to this out there.
Hey, that asshole Savannah Guthrie is just as bad as Todd. Listen carefully to what that little pig has to say.
Interesting interview which leads me to say I’m getting tired of hearing about how ALL members of congress might be fearful about holding future constituen¬t hearings when it has been the Democrats and the nearly extinct moderate republican¬s, who have the most to fear from the likes of the Tea Party and their rhetorical spear carriers like Sarah Palin or other Fox commentato¬rs. The “second amendment solution” is not a liberal talking point.
Representa¬tive Gabrielle Giffords Shot in Arizona.
Democratic congresswo¬man Gabrielle Giffords has been shot in the head at a public event in Tuscon, Arizona. Several people were killed including at least one child. http://www¬.newslook.¬com/videos-/280999-re¬presentati¬ve-gabriel¬le-gifford¬s-shot-in-¬arizona?au¬toplay=tru¬e
Hoping that she survives.
Chuck fucking Todd is one of the biggest purveyors of the old “peace protesters are equivalent to nutjobs carrying guns and screaming about the second amendment” argument. THIS is why it’s totally different genius. You should fucking resign and never (dis)grace our television news again.
Amen. But just watch Barry turn this into a “bipartisan” rejection of violence — rather than call out the true perpetrators.
THe NBC stoopits got her to say what they wanted, that there are extremes on both sides, and then they were happy to wrap it up, without really even calling for the violent rhetoric to end themselves. And asking her whether Democrats were using the attacks to politicize the debate was stupid, too: they were the ones who invited her on their program to talk about it, weren’t they? It didn’t seem like she had muscled her way on the air.
Chuck Todd is a profoundly stupid person. I hope he has to watch this over and over and over again: claiming that campaign rhetoric equals war rhetoric, and excusing Sarah Palin using gunsights to depict HCR supporters, should be reason to fire him today.
Why can’t America have a better media?
As much as Sarah Palin is to be detested, it is premature to conclude that this was politically motivated. The shooter’s reading list was posted on face book and he appears to be somewhat left wing. The man indicated that he was going to commit suicide and then is apparently the way he chose to go out. We have no evidence he is a right wing nut case. This could have even been a random shooting if you consider where he appeared to come from politically.
I don’t know him. I’ve never met the man. I believe I can say without hesitation, “He’s one of the good guys.”
He speaks for me. My heart goes out to the victims.
Alan Grayson is a remarkable public servant, a wonderful man and someone I wish I knew as a friend. He certainly would make a supportive friend; he makes a formidable opponent, as we already know. Thanks for posting this.
The thing is, she had been the target of protest s in the hallway outside her office, got a Sarah Palin riflescope bullseye on her district and then had her office vandalized the night after her helath care vote and they have the fucking nerve to ask her if Democrats are “politicizing” things when they have the temerity to mention that they are targets of violence?
How about the nuts who go around advocating that violence as a repsonse to poltical activity like casting a vote in Congress?How about the verbal bomb throwers who go around tweeting horrifically dangerous things like “don’t retreat, reload”? Huh Sarah?
Gabby called you out by name, Sarah.
How you gonna live with the guilt of that?
As if evidence mattered to those on the right.
And it’s all carefully staged to enrich herself and make her infamous. She’s cancer.
Of course he will. The director of the FBI has been sent to personally oversee the
investigationmanufacturing of evidence. I suspect there will soon be unimpeachable evidence linking this clown to Code Pink, ELF and MoveOn.org.ALL memebrs of Congress should be fearful?
Hmmmm. I remeber Tim Bishop being swarmed in his town hall meeting and needing a police escort to get out safely.
It’s not the left that uses violent inagry in it’s political speeches and tweets
Random shooting? You’re not serious.
“The shooter’s reading list was posted on face book and he appears to be somewhat left wing.” Link?
Yeah, because left wing people routinely shoot up Democratic events. He’s a diabolical genius I tell you.
There are posters elsewhere on the web already announcing he’s a “leftie” and that he “couldn’t possible be conservative” because he wore his hair long for a high school picture.
Paraphrasing a commercial, “The spin is go.”
That’s the best spin the right wingers could come up with today?
Karl Rove must still be in Sweden trying to execute wiki-bloggers.
Chuck “Not News” Todd.
I suppose Sarah Palin’s veiled incitement to violence was “not news” as far as he was concerned.
Another glaring flaw with your theory is that if he wanted to off himself, why was he running away, instead of standing there demanding somebody shoot him when he was captured?
The shooter does not have to be a lefty or righty.
The problem is the climate of violent inahagry being used to discuss how to get rid of political opponents.
Gabby was the target of that kind of rhetoric and imagry before this shooting, and also the target of violent action before this shooting.
It’s the “don’t retreat, reload” climate that leads people to think about killing as a means to deal with problems. It’s irresponsible and dangerous.
You don’t go around pouring gasoline all over hte sidewalk and not worry about some idiot throwing down a lit cigarette onto the pavement. It’s the spilled gasoline that causes the tragedy though.
I hate that this was the event that finally got me to register have lurking for years. I have to say that I’m outraged by what happened today but I’m not altogether surprised. A couple years back I thought to myself that this was only a matter of time given the political climate that was being set by the right-wing.
I have to disagree with all of the calls that this wasn’t a politically motivated assassination. While the perpetrator may have been suffering from a mental illness(or illnesses), it’s clear that he was politically engaged and seemed to be of a libertarian bent. I do not believe it was “random”, as some talking heads have suggested, but a clear targeting of a political event and of political members. Just turn on the cable TV and pick a news station – as most of here already know – you’ll see suggestions that anyone not of the extreme right thought process are “enemies of the nation”. More will come out in time, but it’s clear that this wasn’t “random” or “not affiliated with politics”.
Yep. Siun was pointing to fake tweets earlier, that turning him into a leftie. Apparently we have some people here who have swallowed it already.
He must be a lefty: right-wingers don’t read.
Good point. His politics aren’t important or even relevant. He is a nut. Sane people don’t do things like this and all some nuts need is a little push sometimes. Even a left leaning insane person can believe violent right wing rhetoric. SANE ones would just laugh it off or dismiss it.
You know America has no media. Corporations do.
We can’t have a better media. It was never codified in the Constitution. Ergo, it’s property and it’s been sold to the wealthiest right-wing tyrants desirous of controlling dissent.
Those who can’t read, listen. Who do America’s armed, angry, disenfranchised, illiterate masses listen to? You and me? Someone literate?
Hell no! They listen to a hyperventilating, delusional fascist with a chalkboard.
Just so sad.
With idiots like Chuck Todd giving us the news and commentary, who needs right-wing extremists.
The talking heads who are calling it “random” and “isolated” are not uncoincidentally the same ones who are culpable for dismissing and even encouraging the rhetoric to begin with.
Oh but they do. They read Ayn Rand over and over again.
Stacked up against all the evidence on the other side, I nonetheless must say that yours is dispositive. *g*
He seems to me to have been influenced by the rhetoric, but with what little there is available, he doesn’t seem particularly politically ‘informed’.
Um, prolly not. Most rely on word-of-mouth as to what AR actually sez. Cliff notes at most.
I’m sorry it was such a tragic event which compelled you to de-lurk.
But thank you for your feedback and for taking the step to register and comment.
I’m late to the discussion. I listened to the clip. Is Todd really this stupid, or am I missing something? What a tool.
Of course, Dr. tmstreet. It was a paranoid schizophrenic atheist pacifist tree-hugging liberal who slaughtered those people with his fully automatic Glock. Paranoid shizophrenic atheist pacifist tree-hugging liberals all carry fully automatic Glocks so they can slaughter folks they perceive of as a teensy bit left of center, don’t they?
It’s all that evil Rachel Maddow’s fault, right?
Ding!
GMTA, Jim. I just posted about the same story, inspired by the same video. What discredited losers Todd and that dimwitted broad are, especially in retrospect. Expecting MSNBC to pull that video at any moment, just like Palin, et al.
Just setting the tone for what is called “reporting.”
I hope this event is a game-changer for the better angels of our country, but I expect it will instead help us to feel more insecure when we are participating in public events, especially political ones, going forward.
This is a terrible loss for us all.
How does a nitwit like Chuck Todd get a good-paying TV gig? That guy embarrasses himself daily.
and read Mein Kampf
What is to follow is a short silence from the GOP, followed by a brass-knuckles defense (offense) of their tone. Bank on it.
His MySpace page also listed some of his favorite books, two of which were The Communist Manifesto and Mein Kampf. Huh?
I heard an eyewitness — a Doctor — say that the shooter shot her in the head first, before shooting the others. Anybody else hear that?
Pulls down his pants & bends over for his corp masters.
I’m waiting for Tucker Carlson to say the suspect was there to shoot Michael Vick and shot the wrong delusion.
We need to constantly repeat that the gunman acted on the advice of Sarah Palin and Gabriella’s GOP opponent Jesse Kelly. One put a target on her district, one asked voters to fire an M-16 machine gun to get rid of Gabriella and the shooter took a figurative metaphor and acted literally.
The intent is to constantly associated Palin and Kelly’s name with killing people.
Par for the course these days, I’m afraid. The individuals in such a capacity who are not nitwits are the exception, not the rule.
Is there anyone out there who doesn’t believe that Sarah Palin should be charged with murder and terrorism?
She posted a map on her SarahPAC page with crosshairs on several congressional districts, one of which was Representative Giffords’ district. Can anyone seriously think that she is not responsible for anyone, mentally unbalanced or not, shooting this fine public servant.
If that map had been posted on an arabic or muslim website you know that some poor rube in the army in a trailer somewhere on a military base in Arizona would have dispatched a drone to the home of the person who posted it.
But because it was “just political posturing” (and PLEASE have someone fire that idiot Todd) she will get away with this again and again.
This country is in for a lot of sorrow….
It’s likely that Glenn Beck will be all over that, the raving lunatic.
highly paid to be totally confused,unobservant,and otherwise vacant
Amen.
I agree completely.
This did not happen in a vacuum. He didn’t target Republicans. And I’m also astonished by occasional comments from talking heads that the Judge Roll happened by the event so he couldn’t have been a target. Really? The man with the loaded firearm sees not one, but two targets of opportunity and that’s dismissed out of hand?
Good post! Hope you de-lurk more often!
The overarching theme in the list is anti-govt. In the West in post-WWII, most of the anti-govt lit was written by the left. But it’s not hard to imagine how it could be used on the right.
all over the place,i suspect someone made up “his space” for him
Thank you for your kind words. I’ve always wanted to jump in and participate, but I’ve always stopped short because this community has so many intelligent people that they say what I want to say before I had a chance to say it!
Mmm, offering a beverage to you, Teddy, and Jim – since that was the punishment I recommended for Chuck Todd @201 on Jane’s thread below, in reference to this very clip.
correcto…Cynthias gasoline theory
Jesse Kelly as well. His ad for a campaign event was “Get on Target for Victory in November Help remove Gabrielle Giffords from office Shoot a fully automatic M15 with Jesse Kelly”. If that doesn’t make him at least partly complicit then we may as well all start moving toward our respective gulags now.
the brown shirts are,locked and loaded
The reason this happened today is because this young man had a semi automatic weapon. If he did not have access to a firearm, neither his politics nor his state of mind would have a whit of relevance to anyone. The mantra coming from the President, Janet Napolitano and others is that this kind of violent act has no place in a free society. Is that point really under debate? Of course not–shooting is a crime. What the talking heads and politicians are curiously silent about is the role guns play in these grotesque scenes.
It’s true – reading anything, even their own literature, is hazardous to the health of today’s right-wing memes. In my right-wing days, I actually read Atlas Shrugged cover to cover. Five years later I was reading Noam Chomsky and Edward Herman!
I’m glad you pointed that out. I was surprised to read the list after hearing someone say that it was not political.
“Animal Farm” not political? “Mein Kampf” not political? Sheesh.
If the MSM talking heads appear astonished whenever the predictable happens, they reinforce the delusion that the lamentable, avoidable, heinous travesties of our ignoble past never happened. Thus no one could have actually predicted them, you see.
It’s all news to them every time it happens again.
And that’s what they sell, right? That which is news to them.
anarchy…..just what the nutters love
FoxPac and talk radio pound the “gubnint is bad, bidnis is good” meme all day, every day.
I’m getting the anti government theme too but I’m getting the gist that he is really a poser and that list was designed to shock more than inform. I doubt very much that he read most of it.
That’s the part that gets me when I hear it – this was a political event and the guy went there for this purpose. Out of all of the other events that are held – and there are many of them all the time across the country – he chooses this one where many Democratic or left-leaning figures would be.
Yes, the guy sounds mentally unstable from his writings. Yes, he does seem to have varied political interests, but they are far from concrete from what we have seen thus far, and if anything they paint him as a libertarian/Ron Paul/Glen Beck type. But to say it’s “not politically motivated” as I’ve heard is just about the stupidest thing that anyone could say.
I found it a somewhat unsettling coincidence that the local feed being used by some of the networks was (and I’m not making this up) KGUN.
uhm with prolly 300 million guns in this country isnt the horse,out of the proverbial barn?
http://www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1
Check out the comment that says because Mein Kamph and Communist Manifesto are on the list, it’s an indication of someone disturbed.
For crying out old.
Of course the fact that he had access to a weapon like this is a huge part of the problem, but as long as our “elected” representatives are bought and paid for by the NRA, (not to mention of course Wall Street), law enforcement is rendered pretty much helpless, and left picking up the pieces after an atrocity like this.
Uh, yes, Todd is this stupid. Sometimes he actually makes me miss Tim Russert.
Completely agree here. Turn on the mainstream media any other day and you’ll all of the GOP/Tea usual suspects foaming at the mouth about how Democrats, leftists, and hell anyone not right-wing crazy, are “destroying this country!” and labeled as “enemies’. “Revolution” being suggested constantly by many.
And then they are “shocked” and “appalled” that someone acts on their rhetoric.
Live press conf by Pima Co. AZ Sheriff Dupnik, promising more detail.
Grope people in the most personal, violating way imaginable when going home for Christmas but allow a locked and loaded nut case into a political event. Probably gave him a lapel pin. Something is sick in our society. Anybody who doesn’t see that is part of the cancer. Chuck.
Check out this comment from a Teatard blog.
http://www.businessinsider.com/jared-lee-loughner-2011-1#ixzz1AUnsQ4Nw
Without any sense of the complete idiocy he’s spouting, many Americans will latch onto his nonsense and we’ll just continue hatching out people who will act on their rhetoric as we saw today.
Maybe we’ll see an email address list, or texts or whatever other trails might have been left behind. You can bet the FBI is already pursuing those angles…
C-SPAN 1 has got it…
http://cspan.org/Live-Video/C-SPAN/
You can bet the FBI is already
pursuingmanufacturing those angles…Fixed it for ya.
No accident that a radio station there would take advantage of those call-letters.
Use that video of her killing that elk for sport, missing over and over again. Changing weapons to get a scope and missing again. Letting someone else load her weapon. Not knowing how to carry it properly. Not aware of the safety. The mother of our insensitive, bloody assassins.
Every bit of hate speech from the right was like loading another bullet into the chamber of the Glock the assassin used today. I don’t care if he indeed is mentally disturbed. Mentally disturbed men and women with microphones and cameras pointed at them are every bit as responsible as the shooter, as are the companies who profit from their shame. That rhetoric, those distortions and their lies squeezed the trigger of that horrific automatic weapon discharged at a grocery store just as surely as the killer’s finger did.
The talking heads are inhuman monsters.
Remember the Department of Homeland Security report that predicted an increase in extremism, most notably right-wing extremism due to the political environment and the rhetoric being employed by the media and some political figures? I can remember hearing Beck, Hannity, Limbaugh, and others decrying it in one breath and then urging their sheep to take up arms and get ready to take back their country in the other.
This is when the proverbial chickens come home to roost.
Hey Margaret: How are you making edits and embedding links on these pages? I am seeing no such tools.
Wow- the Sheriff is being frank about the vitriol and violent rhetoric!
Also has said the suspect has a criminal background, and may have a mental issue, and that he may at least, have been accompanied by someone when he arrived at the event.
Also, that he believes the Congresswoman was the target.
Not just that but Arizona very recently passed a law that allows unlicensed concealed carries. Not satisfied to allow access to firearms, (which I’m not necessarily against), the NRA is determined for EVERYBODY to have easy access to firearms and the ability to carry them anywhere. Firearms should be readily available, to all people over 21 who can pass a psych evaluation and mandatory training. I’m sure there are some who will take exception to this but the axiom applies: Only a fool would give a loaded weapon to an crazy man. The fact that people have access to firearms isn’t the problem. the fact that ALL people, regardless of mental health have access to firearms is. I, for one, don’t trust the military and the police to have a monopoly on fire power. We used to have smart regulations but decades of right wing rule have let so many unregistered guns out in the world that it’s really too late to do anything about it now but we must. It will take centuries to undo the damage.
Oh, yeah – the other amazing statement from the Sheriff – “I’m not aware of any public officials who have not received threats.”
wow.
I’m with you that he’s a poser. I’ll bet yout that he did read Alice. What’s there not to like about Alice?
I write my own HTML tags. A pain in the butt but as long as it’s supported it can be done.
That’s a typical reading list for any curious 17-year old. I don’t see anything unusual or ambitious there.
If true, the “random” theorists need to take a hike.
I knew it had to be some kind of tricky deal. As for me? I’m told that the stagecoach leaves in the morning. (I just found out about this thing called “the wheel.” What’s that all about, anyway? heh…
I can’t edit btw. That’s not supported. Trying to remember to proofread. Got the spellchecker on. Tags are easy, all you have to know is the rules.
Bob, we do not know for a fact that he acted on the public statements or actions of anyone.
More likely, he acted on suggestions from someone with sinister intentions.
That’s a typical reading list for any curious 17-year old (who wants to shock and disturb his/her parents. Again, if he’s read half that list, then I’m Margaret Thatcher.
Oh yeah….I’ll bet Jon Kyl and Joe Arpaio are just drowning in them…
That Gifford was the target corresponds with what was said upthread that she was shot first.
Awww! Too bad! Caribou Barbie’s show isn’t being renewed. I never watched the p.o.s. but I heard it was about as real as nutri-sweet.
Yeah, a real tragedy, ain’t it?
Their wives.
I disagree. Our whole society is militarized, especially our language. We declare war on everything. Hate radio has taken over the airwaves, and they take their cues from the business-congressional complex and demagogic politicians.
Mentally detached right-wingers do stuff like this, and then reactionaries on the other side immediately start calling for loss of liberties for the whole society, or a police state to keep them safe.
See the Faux News interview from yesterday with Rep Giffords, wherein the host warned (or threatened) her that “people are getting inpatient”
http://www.foxnewsinsider.com/2011/01/08/watch-bill-hemmers-interview-with-rep-giffords/
that is what makes me nuts, instead of our FBI going after and investigating issues like this, they are spending their time on non violent peace activists. WE should all be outraged.
Jane Hamsher is upstairs…
Second Suspect Sought in Connection with Giffords Shooting Incident, White Male in His 50s
Most of the observations mentioned here are on point…….and seem pretty valid to me.
But what’s missing are proposals for action.
The best action, it would seem to me, would be to campaign loudly and often to remove from the media ALL the freaks who espouse and encourage violence in our society.
To this end, our Progressive group has its first meeting tomorrow evening of our “Media Working Group”. My bag is TALK RADIO FOR THE REST OF US, a piece I keep emailing around that I ask folks to use as an information tool …….and to circulate.
Well, based on what happened in Tucson today, I will focus on activism to get these vermin off the air (check out RIPDA’s site to see what we’re gonna do about this (if I’m successful)……..what are you going to do?
Characters like Todd make me not want to watch MSNBC!
These are very likely to have been the required readings for his MS, HS, and college courses. Probably the only books he knew, and a list naively designed to impress his facebook friends. When is the right going to call for the banning of books rather than controlling guns? It’s clearly reading that’s the problem. We can keep Fahrenheit 451 as a “how to” guide.
I sent an e-mail this morning to CBS Sunday Morning show on their short on bullying. They showed a young woman who just could not really “get it” that “words have consequences.”
I told them Sarah, Rush et al (including Giffords’ opponent) are bullies, and they don’t “get it” either. “Ask them,” I suggested.
We have to make a stand about this.