Well before Senate Democrats passed their health care bill on Christmas Eve, the debate over health care reform was dividing progressives. Now there is an even larger division among progressives, as some will support any candidate running as a Democrat in 2010, while others will not.
The Progressives’ Political Predicament
Two months before President Obama delivered his speech outlining his new strategy for Afghanistan, Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX14) was asked what he thought of Obama’s approach to America’s wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. He answered that what Obama was doing was just as bad as what Bush had done and was even
“a little more dangerous because he has neutralized the anti-war left. The antiwar left has just left. At least Bush was honest, I mean he was upfront. He believed in pre-emptive preventive war; but everybody was hopeful that Obama would do differently, but he hasn’t. So he has quieted down the left and there is a very weak anti-war movement in this country now. And that obviously is something I hope to participate in reviving and it has to be coming from the old right as well as true progressives who believe that all this warmongering and killing makes no sense whatsoever.”
Rep. Paul’s point – that the election of Barack Obama has been a serious blow to the anti-war movement – extends well beyond the silencing of opposition to America’s wars; it encompasses the progressive movement as a whole.
In the waning years of the presidency of George W. Bush and after more than a decade of Republican control of Congress, the American people were more than ready to abandon tough talk and bad policies. The 2006 and 2008 elections were victories for progressives, but progressives have not been able to reap the rewards. The tough talk is gone, but the bad policies remain. And the result is that progressives find themselves at odds with each other, trapped in a difficult predicament that they must work their way out of without delay.
Nearly two weeks ago, about a week before Senate Democrats passed a health care bill that included nothing upon which Americans could build toward a single-payer system, Jake McIntyre highlighted in An Observation on the Split in the Progressive Blogosphere (Dec 16, 2009) that there has emerged a policy wonk/activist division among progressives over health care that is strikingly similar to the 2003 division over the invasion of Iraq: on the wonky side,
“a resigned sense that this isn’t an ideal action, but that we don’t live in an ideal world, and that consequently we should suck it up and support an imperfect initiative;”
while on the other side,
“a resistance born of an awareness that Congressional Democrats will more often than not – and often unintentionally – screw themselves and the country, out of a misguided belief that powerful forces with agendas very different from that of the Democratic Party can be managed and trusted.”
As McIntyre put it:
“When all is said and done, the wonks trust Democratic politicians to protect our interests. The activists don’t. That doesn’t mean that we don’t like certain Democratic politicians, or that we don’t cherish our wonky brethren. It just means that we’re not willing to get fooled again.”
I would add that the problem for progressives now is even more difficult because Democrats are in power, whereas in 2003 they were not. Tensions are higher because there are those who will accept anything so long as Democrats keep their hold on power, while others want to fight those Democrats who fail to do what’s right for the American people.
And, sure enough, two days after McIntyre made his observation, Jane Hamsher published The Left-Right Populist Wrap-Around Vs. the Beltway Insiders (Dec 18), which gave rise to reprehensible attacks like this one and weak attacks this one, attacks that must be cited, though they aren’t worth remembering.
Here’s what Hamsher said that landed her in the center of the storm:
“There is an enormous, rising tide of populism that crosses party lines in objection to the Senate bill. We opposed the bank bailouts, the AIG bonuses, the lack of transparency about the Federal Reserve, “bailout” Ben Bernanke, and the way the Democrats have used their power to sell the country’s resources to secure their own personal advantage, just as the libertarians have. . . What we agree on: both parties are working against the interests of the public, the only difference is in the messaging.”
Because Hamsher recognized the need to work with anyone if it will help progressives advance their goals, she was perceived as a threat. And the attacks were meant as a warning to all progressives who want to fight the sellouts and shills among the Democrats to stfu. Fortunately, Hamsher can’t be penned up or intimidated, and the fight goes on.
After that weekend, Hamsher explained why she went on MSNBC and Fox News on the Monday and Tuesday following the uproar against her:
“I went on Ed Shultz last night, and Fox deliberately today after yesterday’s hubub. It scares the bejesus out of the DC establishment of both parties to think that the left and right might align against the corporate interests that dominate the massive giveaways that keep happening no matter who’s in power.
Good. They should be scared.”
Good, indeed.
Health Care Reform Fails; Corporatist Republicans Score Big Time
With Democrats in power, health care reform has met with an inglorious end as corporatist politicians – who infest both the Republican and Democratic Parties – successfully used Congress’s lengthy deliberative process under Democratic control to do an end-run around the will of the American people (when Republicans run the show, they do it the other way around, cutting Congress’s deliberative process short in order to do an end-run around the will of the American people).
On the surface, the Republican Party in the minority appears to be led by blabbering morons in the House and Senate and especially at the RNC, but time and again they have totally outmaneuvered Democrats of all stripes; every politician with a “D” after his or her name will have a tough time in upcoming election cycles.
Throughout the health care debate, for the most obvious example, Republicans made a great show of opposing anything proposed by Democrats, calling it “ObamaCare” and, my favorite, “socialism.” Obama most certainly does have to own it, but whatever it is, it most certainly is not socialist. Quite the opposite.
Now that the Republicans got a bill with which they can be more than comfortable (while opposing it publicly every step of the way and voting against it unanimously in the Senate), they are pivoting to hanging this legislation, which they know is not good for the American people, on Obama and Democrats.
Speaking Sunday morning on ABC’s This Week (transcript here), Sen Mitch McConnell said:
“Well, certainly, politically, it’s a big problem for them. They all kind of joined hands and went off the cliff together. Every single Democrat provided the vote that passed it in the Senate.”
Republicans get to use this legislation politically to energize their base. All they have to do is say how much they hate it. Their corporatist Democratic allies, who were fooled into creating this mess, on the other hand, will have to face a base – indeed a majority of American people (CNN/Opinion Research Poll pdf) – that is demoralized by the impotence of the Democrats, who failed to deliver on the real reform that so many wanted.
Masterful, indeed.
Appearing a little later on the same program Sunday morning (transcript here), even Paul Krugman – who tries to dismiss critics of the Senate’s health care bill, presumably because he thinks it’s so great – said about the upcoming 2010 midterm races that Democrats will have to run on jobs, on the economy, and on just not being Republicans.
That’s pathetic.
Obama says on Christmas Eve that this legislation is “the most important piece of social legislation since the Social Security Act passed in the 1930s, and the most important reform of our health care system since Medicare passed in the 1960s,” and all Krugman can say is that Democrats will have to run on “not being Republicans”?
What a joke.
It was supposed to have been their great achievement, and all Krugman can say is “I don’t think health care is going to be a big sell for the Democrats” in 2010. Rather than run on a great achievement, Krugman thinks that they’re going to have to change the subject to “not being Republicans.”
And yet, in spite of it all, many calling themselves progressives want to praise Obama anyway and support Democrats next year, whether they deserve progressives’ support or not.
Two Political Parties, Two Movements
Bush’s failures ultimately disappointed many among the Republican base and left many unhappy with the Republican Party; for many who consider themselves members of the Democratic base, the failures of Obama and congressional Democrats are just as disappointing and have left just as many unhappy with the Democratic Party.
This situation has brought into high relief for a growing number of Americans what has been obvious to far too few until now: the leadership of neither party really cares about the will of the American people, about doing what’s in the best interests of the people, or about advancing the common good.
The rift between the politics of our leaders and the political interests of the rest of society is so great, in fact, that populist conservatives are fighting to move the Republican Party to where they believe it should be, while many progressives believe they too must fight to move the Democratic Party.
Among progressives, ideas to accomplish this goal have not been lacking. On December 16, Ed Kilgore posted Left-Right Convergence? at The Democratic Strategist (cross-posted at The New Republic with the title Taking Ideological Differences Seriously), and two days later, on the same day that Jane Hamsher posted The Left-Right Populist Wrap-Around Vs. the Beltway Insiders, Glenn Greenwald posted The underlying divisions in the healthcare debate at Salon, all of which have been followed much more recently by Jeffrey Feldman’s Corporatism (Dec 26, 2009).
Kilgore set sail by pointing out that there is an ideological distinction without a difference between A) the “the so-called Clintonian, ‘New Democrat’ movement, and the broader international movement sometimes referred to as ‘the Third Way,’ which often defended the use of private means for public ends,” and B) the “conservative ‘privatization’ strategy, which simply devolves public responsibilities to private entities without much in the way of regulation.”
Kilgore observes that “on a widening range of issues, Obama’s critics to the right say he’s engineering a government takeover of the private sector, while his critics to the left accuse him of promoting a corporate takeover of the public sector.” Whichever one is correct, Kilgore argues, is irrelevant. What is relevant, he says, is that the opportunity for a “tactical convergence is there if [activists on the left and right] choose to pursue it.”
Then Greenwald called for a course correction, arguing that what Kilgore was talking about is “corporatism” (defined by Greenwald as “the virtually complete dominance of government by large corporations, even a merger between the two”), which is all “about affirmatively harnessing government power in order to benefit and strengthen those corporate interests and even merging government and the private sector.” Greenwald concludes that:
“whether you call it ‘a government takeover of the private sector’ or a ‘private sector takeover of government,’ it’s the same thing: a merger of government power and corporate interests which benefits both of the merged entities (the party in power and the corporations) at everyone else’s expense.”
And so he calls for an end to old fault lines. Left-right is too ’90s, he says, and the old conservative/liberal ideological fault line has been erased, as Americans’ anger is now
“rooted far more in an insider/outsider dichotomy over who controls Washington than it is in the standard conservative/liberal ideological splits from the 1990s.”
And Jeffrey Feldman recently took the helm with Corporatism (Dec 26, 2009), and steered the ship to uncharted waters, drawing a new consciousness/false consciousness fault line, people with consciousness being those who can see that the battle against "corporatism" is the true political landscape, while those who support the Democratic Party are living in a state of false consciousness. What is needed, Feldman argues, is the formulation of an “alternative vision” that breaks the old fault lines to pieces.
With all due respect to this heavy intellectual lifting, progressives need to be careful not to reason so far away from perceived reality that they are no longer speaking the same language as the vast majority of Americans. In other words, the left-right divergence not only exists ideologically (it does, btw), it is also fully embedded in the consciousness of nearly all Americans. If progressives were to abandon it or to look for clever ways to convince Americans that it no longer exists, they will only run off course and may very well sink their ship.
To the extent that an “alternative vision” can be useful, I present the following:
The Populist-Conservative Libertarian Movement
The Corporatist Republican Party
The Corporatist Democratic Party
The Progressive Movement
Now please recall McIntyre’s An Observation on the Split in the Progressive Blogosphere (Dec 16, 2009), which I discussed earlier. In that article, McIntyre was being far too polite. I shall now say far more bluntly what he was only willing to imply: progressives have to shake off their cherished wonky brethren and get to work, forcing corporatist Democrats out and helping progressive Democrats win.
Anyone who is willing to validate what corporatist Democrats are doing or enable it by demanding that progressives support the sellouts and shills among the Democratic Party simply doesn’t get the harm they are doing to the progressive movement, to the Democratic Party, and to the American people.
If progressives’ cherished wonky brethren don’t care about whether Democrats do what’s right, then they are best left ignored by those progressives who are ready to fight the sellouts and corporate shills among the Democratic Party.
Thus, Kilgore’s original call for a left-right “tactical convergence” remains the best approach. Behind the scenes, progressive and libertarian leaders should find ways to work together in order to bring Obama down from his lofty heights, where he sits far too comfortable in the incorrect belief that, because he has such a nice smile, he is a political immortal, and therefore can screw over the American people while patting them on their heads and getting their campaign contributions and their votes.
Anything more than a “tactical convergence” would be ill-advised. As Howard Fineman pointed out in Is There a Doctor in the House? Ron Paul, the GOP’s unlikely savior (Dec 4, 2009), if the Republican Party is to be saved, it will be saved by “a candidate who embodies the spirit of Ron Paul. Just so long as it isn’t Ron Paul.”
A broader alliance between progressives and libertarians as an outsider movement fighting the DC/K Street insiders would end with the libertarians and other populist-conservatives walking away with a handful of politicians that progressives would have helped them get elected. Unless someone can present an argument for how libertarians can help progressive candidates get elected by campaigning with them and an argument for how libertarians and progressives would be forced to work together in office, such a broader alliance just isn’t a good idea. Ideological differences remain, would resurface, and would divide any such alliance.
I would like to conclude by pointing out Cenk Uygur’s powerful How Progressives Can Move Obama to the Left (Dec 24, 2009), in which he calls for progressives to force the center to the left in order to get Obama to take heed and do what right:
“If you don’t move the island, the rest is futile. You have to shift the ground underneath them. And the only way to do that is to create such a strong and aggressive progressive movement that they cannot help but notice it – and respond to it. Move the center and you’ll move Obama. And he’ll move the country. There is no other choice.”
Right on.
My only disagreement with Uygur is that he thinks progressives need to move from health care reform to the next battle: financial reform.
I believe instead that progressives must shift away from trying to influence corrupt policymakers and begin to speak out publicly and loudly against the policies of Obama and this Democratic Congress in order to have an impact on the upcoming 2010 and 2012 primary, midterm and general elections. Obama has angered the right, and has been a huge disappointment to the left. The best way for progressives’ ideological opponents on the right to be helpful to progressives is to do the same, to speak out publicly and loudly (which they’re already doing).
Everyone else is supporting a broken system that favors increasing the powers of government and of corporations – a system that goes back and forth between corporatist Republicans and corporatist Democrats, while corporate executives always win –, a broken system that leaves the American people powerless to oppose them.
[Originally posted at Circleparkforum.]



24 Comments

“My only disagreement with Uygur is that he thinks progressives need to move from health care reform to the next battle: financial reform.” ; and where does climate change ‘fit’ into ‘the next battle’?
FWIW regarding “Unless someone can present an argument for how libertarians can help progressive candidates get elected by campaigning with them and an argument for how libertarians and progressives would be forced to work together in office, such a broader alliance just isn’t a good idea” , have you read Sirota’s The Uprising?
Instead of pouring resources into individual policy battles, which seem now to be doomed to failure from a progressive perspective for the remainder of Obama’s term(s), we need to be doing the boring but desperately-needed work of building movement infrastructure, particularly a communications infrastructure that would actually make it possible to loudly criticize corporate/corrupt/conservative Democrats and ultimately push them out of the Party. Commonweal Institute is a good piece in that puzzle as are orgs like SmartMeme
excellent diary
The “up to your @ss in alligators…” comes to mind. The swamp, though, is undoubtedly corporate control and both democrats & republicans are head over heels lovesick. Is it not possible to come up with “coalition” candidates? (speaking from complete ignorance here- Sorry! I know pretty much zero about libertarians yet) Since the emergence of talk radio years ago, I’ve been as revolted by the “right” as anyone but to some extent, always seen the right/ left war as being overblown to create a diversion and divide people more than that it’s a true ideological impasse. It’s a good thing there is this common ground because (barring an outright revolution- extremely risky) it’s about the only hope we have of taking the US back from the corporatists. Everything worth having takes hard work. If progressives and libertarians (or people “on the other side”) are willing & able to do the hard work, hopefully it’s possible. Has anyone made a list of potentially common ground as well as the obvious?
Thank you, ubetchaiam, for that referral.
I’ll look for it. Do you have a link?
Exactly. Far too many corrupt policymakers. It’s absolutely necessary to analyze policies and speak out on issues for a variety of reasons, but the goal must be helping progressive candidates win elections. Jane started talking about this a few weeks ago when she first announced Blue America.
Excellent! Boring, you say? Perhaps. But right on! Now I have to admit that I’m new to this effort. Hey, I’m a fast learner.
Found Sirota’s The Uprising at Amazon here.
He was also here at the Lake for a FDL Book Salon discussion in June 2008. I’m starting there and then will go to the book.
Thank you!
I don’t view the libertarian/liberal union as a medling of policy issues into a new political party, but simply as an alliance to defeat corporatists in both parties. I see Harry is a good bet to go down, as well as Dodd and maybe Lincoln. Each of these senators has contributed to the corporate takeover of the government in their own unique ways. We should also direct our eyre toward Republicans that are vulnerable, but that may have to wait until after the Armagedon for Democrats in 2010. Go team! Good post Knoxville.
The answer to all these problems is to replace all the people in the Congress on both sides with people who have no affiliation to any party or persuasion.
Like citizen representatives, like the Constitution wanted for us.
I hope that this anti-corporatist thing will go somewhere, because I am so tired of waiting for people out there to finally speak for people like me. I have been very concerned about the corporations for 20+ years now. It’s about time that others felt the same way.
Btw, someone who was let go from their job in my area went to their former workplace, shot a co-worker, & then killed themselves today. If our leaders don’t do something about the pain that “regular” people are going through because of this economy, this is going to continue to happen.
Hope is good, but no sign of that happening yet. GMAC Financial Services is getting $3.5 billion of taxpayer money.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091230/ap_on_bi_ge/us_gmac_treasury_1
The notion that Grover Norquist is in any way opposed to corporate power is laughable. That’s all that needs be said about this.
After 8 years of lock down under Bush a light went on when a debate about health care emerged. We can not let the right take over again and shut down the country. Time to look for “real people” and there needs to be deep research to find out of they are “real” or real good clones of the corporate world. After being seriously scammed by Enron and friends in California, the power brokers recalled a recently elected governor and put up Arnie who has been a corporate power broker crony. We are too far gone to survive more of what these cartels have put in place. Time to fight for democracy or see it disappear.
Left/Right is fine, but there truly is an insider outsider dynamic as well. I know Rasmussen isn’t popular in these hallowed halls, but have you seen these?
http://www.rasmussenreports.com/content/search?SearchText=political+class&SearchButton.x=1&SearchButton.y=0&SearchButton=submit
I’m not talking about the specific points polled; those are only what Rasmussen was curious to find out. But when you see things like: 76% of the ‘Political Class’ [defined term] give Geithner rave reviews, but only 12% of ‘Populists’ [defined term, sometimes called 'Main Street']approve of him, it makes you wonder about the ‘inside’ ‘outside’ element as well. I think it may be some of each.
I’m all for working together for issues we agree on, and for representation, however (speaking from the right.) Even if it is not the kind of representation we prefer individually in each candidate, someone working ‘for the people’ would be a nice change. And many issues don’t even have that drawback. We can work together on those without problem. Let the sell-out-center worry.
One problem that I’m seeing is that for many progressives, we’ve taken our ideal politics and reduced it to that which is plausible given the political sentiments we see around us. That is, I think that no business should grow to be bigger than a bathtub, so that we can drown it before it does any harm, but in the real world, I know that within the USG constitutional framework, the best we can do is to regulate the hell out of big business and tax it. Even that is a push.
Many Libertarians and libertarians (party and philosophy) but not all, seem to believe that their entire ideology as cut from whole cloth is applicable without any compromise to the realities of the constitution and where Americans are at politically now.
We’ve all got to keep our ideal politics, yet dial back our real politics from those extremes while keeping a fix on our compass points so that we can operate under current constraints but keep our eyes on the prize. If we both commit to doing that, then we might be able to identify some common ground on how to solve the problems we jointy face.
We agree that a corporate takeover of government is bad, but what is the solution? Do we do campaign finance reform, how will the libs like that? I’m all ears for a consensus solution that follows the constitution and puts the sovereignty back in the popular, and that’s going to mean taking sovereignty away from the limited liability corporation, because the constitution does not say that corporations get political speech rights.
But libs might not concur. Where is the middle ground on the big picture stuff?
As far as an American anti war movement, what anti war movement? 10,000,000 marched in Feb of 2003 against the Iraq war worldwide and that did nothing. There is no antiwar movement, and antiwar sentiment was marshalled by Obama in 2008 only to allow the warmonger to receive the Nobel Peace Prize. That worked out well, didn’t it?
Someone raised Reid as a possible united target. I’d like to mention a complication from the libertarian leaning Republican side on that issue. I’m not Nevadan, but I can’t imagine any libertarian leaning Republican or ‘real’ conservative voting for Lowden, the ‘party choice’ for the 2010 Senate run until the Ron Paul group in Nevada essentially declared war (the party is now being quiet since the default candidate, not Lowden is also a non-Paulite Republican they could live with, as I understand it.) The short story is that Nevada as a state would have voted for Ron Paul in the Republican National Convention (by rules opening up a possible if unlikely bid for a nomination from the floor) had Team Lowden not shut down the state convention before it could select delegates. (Ron Paul came in second after Romney, and before McCain in Nevada). The party leadership simply turned off the lights and fled the state convention as the votes for state delegates came in decisively for Ron Paul. They didn’t even have the votes to recess the convention properly. [It's all on youtube if anyone cares for the details.] (It wasn’t just the three delegates actually selected but the rest of the slate that would have gone the same way. The closest vote was something like 80 for the leadership delegate candidate and 230 for the Ron Paul delegate.) The state GOP then kept saying they would call a new convention but never did, and finally appointed delegates by invitation only conference call. Even the RNC called that ‘inept.’
Imagine how progressives would feel if Kucinich or Nader or McKinney would have taken Nevada at the Democratic Convention but for the entire primary process having been spontaneously scrapped by a group in power in the state party. Paulites hate Lowden (then chair of the state GOP) more personally than they/we hate Reid.
They don’t particularly love the other main GOP candidate either, but have been active in NV GOP and other than declaring war on Lowden are trying to work with the party. People there would have to find out the latest on the ground. C4L [Campaign for Liberty] is a way to do that, or just Google Ron Paul and Nevada. If Lowden takes the party nomination for Senate in Nevada, one thing I’m pretty certain of is that Paulites will not vote GOP on that particular race. They sure didn’t in Nevada in the Presidential race, last year.
” We agree that a corporate takeover of government is bad, but what is the solution? Do we do campaign finance reform, how will the libs like that? I’m all ears for a consensus solution that follows the constitution and puts the sovereignty back in the popular, and that’s going to mean taking sovereignty away from the limited liability corporation, because the constitution does not say that corporations get political speech rights. ”
For starters, we can agree on no personhood for corporations. Yes, regulation is bad in libertarian eyes, but prevention of fraud and theft from the public for private corporate interests is good. Libertarians would go from a different angle, to reduce GOVERNMENT to the size that can be drowned in a bathtub, so there are no stolen pots of money to attract the corporate vultures to take over our government to obtain. However, we DO agree Reps should be representative. How about banning ex Congressmen access to the floor as lobbiests during votes so they can’t cut those deals? How about looking at the lobby structure? It has to be done THOUGHTFULLY, not careless of unintended consequences. Free speech is important and people are certainly allowed to band together to speak, but a corporation itself is not a citizen, has no voice, and should not, IMHO lobby. I’m not quite sure how to go after this but I think the lobby system is ripe for a complete overhaul if not being abolished.
And we can work on ISSUES. War. No bailouts. Special interest funding by government being more transparent, not just in the Fed but across the board. Limits, if not on corporations, on how much special interests can get in govt funding, or something, maybe? Just brainstorming here.
Gotcha, but our fall back position assuming the existence of mega corporations is that there needs to be a democratically accountable power big enough to keep them from doing the damage that they’d do if left unconstrained.
Do you think that no personhood for corporations is a widely held view amongst the various flavors of libertarians?
Government needs to be as big and as powerful as corporations are just to achieve a steady state balance.
As an anarchist, I’d prefer to see corporations minimalized and government go along with it, but as a progressive active in electoral politics, we’ve got to set our sights lower.
Gotta say that here in San Francisco, after progressives figured out how to run and win local elections, we’ve achieved a majority on the school board and stopped the flow of bond money into private pockets of the select, and have enough power on the community college board to shine the antiseptic into that rot. Pelosi and the local Democrat power structure are engaged in a life and death struggle with prog dems and Greens to snuff out any positive example of how folks can do what they told us we could in civics class, run for office in coalitions, take power, and make government work as advertised.
Under these conditions, such a project is considered the height of radicalism.
“….powerful forces with agendas very different from that of the Democratic Party ….”
What exactly is the agenda of the democratic party? They seem hell bent on abandoning their ideological foundation just as fast as they can. The only principle they seem to abide by is that the primary goal of the party in power is to remain in power and it is questionable whether they can hold onto that after 2010.
“We need to be doing the boring but desperately-needed work of building movement infrastructure,…..”
With the 2010 census looming, the next big, meaningful battle will be in the state legislatures when they begin the redistricting process. The most effective long term grassroots effort will focus on electing democrats to state legislatures.
Yeah, that’s worked out so well in California and New York.
” Gotcha, but our fall back position assuming the existence of mega corporations is that there needs to be a democratically accountable power big enough to keep them from doing the damage that they’d do if left unconstrained. ”
As long as govt ISN’T democratically or otherwise accountable (democracy ignores individual rights) big govt compounds the power of corporatism. Accountability we’d see eye to eye on. You trust govt we trust competing people. That is the fundamental divide I don’t see changing, so we have to work on pieces. I’d rather have your utopia than what we have now, but I’d consider my utopia more likely to last.
” Gotcha, but our fall back position assuming the existence of mega corporations is that there needs to be a democratically accountable power big enough to keep them from doing the damage that they’d do if left unconstrained.
Do you think that no personhood for corporations is a widely held view amongst the various flavors of libertarians? ”
Yes. Pretty much across the board, those who have considered the implications. Mind you some call themselves libertarian who seem to want to coopt others to their own ends, those people don’t count.
Do you think that no personhood for corporations is a widely held view amongst the various flavors of libertarians?
Sorry for my bad cut and paste’s.
Well done.
I think that for dealing with some people on the right, there is the possibility of legislative alliances, but most of the progressive-libertarian alliances will occur on an instance by instance basis. A letter here. A petition there. A campaign against corruption in both parties over there.
At the very least, maybe these relationships will restore some of the comity that used to exist in legislative bodies and that permitted serious and honest policy differences without public recriminations.
Thanks for this, Knox! Very clear thinking, much needed.