Chris Matthews asks: “What happened to the Obama message machine.” And Dee Dee Myers and Tony Blankley dutiful provide various off the mark answers about fear and insecurity. But, also, it’s clear to all three that Obama’s message on health care doesn’t have the same clarity as his message during the campaign, and they attribute that to his vagueness in the absence of a specific proposal for reform that he is advocating. In short, the failure of “the Obama messaging machine” is not due to a deterioration in the messaging machine, but to an absence of specific content that people can understand and organize around, and that Obama can deliver and repeat again and again. That content must be something that people can easily understand and that is resistant to the Republican lying machine.
Unfortunately, the public option idea being pushed by the President and many of his progressives supporters doesn’t have the needed clarity. One problem is that it requires a health insurance exchange whose features are vital to the success of any plan, but whose characteristics are currently unknown in the absence of a concrete bill that the President is advocating. Another problem is that lack of clarity besets the “public option” notion itself. What is a “public option”? it’s a policy offered by a non-profit Government-owned insurance corporation, in competition with policies offered by private insurance companies. But that’s vague because that corporation could have authority to sign up everyone for insurance, or could be authorized to sign up only a very small proportion of the population. It could be authorized to use the Medicare network of providers or not. It could be authorized to pay the prices for services that Medicare pays, or something else. It could be authorized to bargain for drugs from companies in other nations or not. In short, there are many types of public options, depending on the features given to, or withheld from, the public corporation established to run it. And the likelihood that the public option will work depends very much on these features. So, when Obama says we should have a “public option to keep the insurance companies honest,” what does he mean? That is just not clear, and people cannot evaluate whether he is supporting something that will do the job of "keeping them honest," or whether he will just be exposing people to forever escalating insurance costs.
Yesterday, the President sent an e-mail to millions outlining eight consumer protections he was looking for in the health care reform legislation. The eighth protection was: “Guaranteed insurance renewal so long as premiums are paid.” Clearly, this is great as long as the premiums are affordable. But what guarantees their affordability? That wasn’t clear in Obama’s e-mail, even though it expressed the need to do something about rising costs and premiums. Now, we know that Obama wants to control premiums through a “public option,” but again that term is ambiguous and it is clear that certain “public options” may have a chance of doing that, whereas other “public options” are just window dressing, that don’t have a chance in hell of holding costs and premiums down. So, Obama’s message so far isn’t clear enough to persuade people that his health reform bill would work. They know the present system doesn’t work. But who wants to go from the frying pan into the fire? Why should we trust that the President’s best intentions will come out of the bill that gets through the Congress?
Look at the Obama record so far. We have a bank bailout that used huge sums to bailout the big banks, but did very little to restart lending for main street, and that has produced the recurring outrage of excessive compensation awarded to the employees of companies on the public dole. We have a credit card reform act that doesn’t take effect for 9 months, in which time period consumers are getting socked with doubled and tripled interest rates, and all manner of fees, by the very banks they bailed out. We have a stimulus package that may have slowed the economic decline somewhat, but was far too small to prevent state-level job cutbacks across the country, or to produce the many millions of new jobs needed to turn the economy around. We have an energy bill going through Congress that looks like a coal company giveaway, and that will be very damaging to the environment, and we have a health care reform legislation-writing process that, it is plain, is thoroughly penetrated by insurance industry lobbyists who have given millions of dollars in campaign contributions to committee Chairmen and members who are writing that legislation.
President Obama is not very new anymore. We have all seen him operate, and he has so far not produced legislation that is “change we can believe in." But, rather, legislation that seems to reinforce the trend away from democracy and towards plutocracy. So, how can folks trust him to deliver this kind of change with health care reform?
The answer is that he has to commit to and deliver a message with content that cannot be gamed, or otherwise “fuzzed up” by lobby-penetrated congressional committees, and that clearly indicates that health care reform legislation will fix the health insurance problem that has killed, bankrupted, and broken up the families of so many Americans since the 1970s. That message has to guarantee reforms that people can trust, because there is concrete evidence that similar reforms have worked at other times and places, and in other contexts that they may even be familiar with. President Obama has to reset his health care reform message so that it delivers that kind of content, not content that conjures up vague and indistinct images of what health care reform will be like. And, unfortunately, for the President and his initial choice of strategy for health care reform that message can’t be built around the vague and highly manipulable idea of “the public option.” Instead, the only alternative that will fill the bill I’ve just outlined is “Medicare for All,” a single payer plan that will take the insurance companies out of the business of funding and profiting from basic health care for Americans.
“Medicare for All” is a very clear message. Everyone will, for good or ill, understand it. The insurance companies will fight it tooth and nail. They will tell all kinds of lies about it. The Administration and its allies, however, will be able to reply with all kinds of experiences that people already have. They can talk about Medicare and the experience American seniors have had with it. They can talk about an 86% approval rate for it. They can give all kinds of anecdotes. They can recruit various Tricare military recipients to talk about their experiences and the nature of military family coverage under Tricare. They can also talk about the experiences of other countries that use single payer systems. They can have the President and the Secretary of State do Town Halls in these countries to get the experience of ordinary people with their national single payer plans.
Of course, the opposition will scream “socialized medicine,” but the Administration can reply that “Medicare for All” is not “socialized medicine,” but only “socialized insurance.” And when the opposition says that socialized insurance is bad for America and that we should rely on the free market, the Administration has to reply without hesitation or doubt, that “socialized insurance” is necessary because there is no free market in health insurance, for the reasons Paul Krugman has recently given, and that even if there had ever been a possibility of a free market in health care, the insurance companies themselves destroyed this possibility by consolidating to such a degree, that there are now only 7 major health insurance companies in the United States, and that in much of our country a single insurance company dominates local markets, and has been able to increase premiums without fear of a free competitive market penalizing it for doing so.
The Administration then needs to go on to point out that in concentrated, monopolistic markets like the health care market, private, profit-making companies are free to engage in all manner of unfriendly consumer practices and to extract unconscionable profits, since consumers have no alternatives, which is exactly what the health insurance companies have done for many years now. And that therefore companies operating in such markets and realizing excessive profits in them, forfeit the right to claim that their businesses should not be restricted or regulated on grounds that they provide the benefits of competition in a free market, simply because there is no free market on which to base such claims.
Now, I know that the Administration will find it very difficult to advocate “Medicare for All” because they’d have to admit error in their health care strategy so far, and Administrations don’t like to do that unless reality absolutely forces them to. But, this Administration can be different from the bankrupt Administrations of the past. It can forget about such nonsense, admit its errors, and explain its actions by saying that the President originally favored a public option rather than “Medicare for All,” because he was looking for legislation that Republicans and the health industry itself might be willing to support. He wasn’t out to get the insurance companies, or to exclude the Republican Party from credit for this great and historic health care reform. Instead he was looking to pass legislation that was “live and let live” and that would produce a great improvement for the American people by introducing a very strong public option that would work to hold down increasing premiums and costs. The Administration can go on to say that after months of trying to get such a bill, the opposition of the Republicans and the health industry to a decent “live and let live” compromise has been unflagging, rigid, and impossible to deal with, and that they have shown that they will accept nothing but a bill that represents a trillion dollar giveaway to the insurance companies, enabling them to extract unprecedented profits from the previously uninsured. He should then go on to say that this is not reform, and that since the insurance companies and their bought legislators in both parties are not interested in a reasonable compromise, there is no reason for him to try to work out such a compromise at the cost of lack of clarity in the health care reform, or loss of trust on the part of the public, which constantly sees the unconscionable, and unseemly, gyrations in some circles in Congress to create a ‘reform” bill that will deliver even more profits to health insurers than they have so far been able to extract.
So, from here on in, the President should say, he will no longer fruitlessly seek a strong public option compromise with Republicans and the industry. But, instead, he will propose and support, without compromise, the Bill that makes the most sense for all of the American people: a Bill that will get the health insurance companies off the backs of the American people forever, and provide for “Medicare for All.”



76 Comments







The fact that this diary is as L-O-N-G as it is — although good in its content — illustrates the problem with “Obama’s Message Machine.”
When you hear the “questions from the audience” at Obama’s “town meetings” on health care, you realize how well the Republican scare tactics & obfuscation have worked.
Obama is too smart for his own good: he thinks he’s talking to smart folks, and he thinks everyone has a “let’s get the facts” approach like he does. He’s SO wrong.
damn ..that’s a good diary ..but l-o-n-g …
Thanks Mauimom and Jkat. I agree that it’s a bit long. But “Medicare for All” is very short and very understandable and that’s really the point. It’s a lot easier sell to people than “public option.” I also agree that Obama is too smart for his own good. That’s why he likes the public option. If he supports that he’s on the side of “choice,” and he’s not putting the companies out of business. He’s going to let the market do that. Real, real cute, but who’s he kidding? Us or them?
I really don’t get the public-option-as-vague attack, though I see it a lot. We now have two bills (HELP and HR 3200) that spell out exactly what it is, just like we have a single payer bill (HR 676) that does the same. There are a lot of debates to be had about the relative merits of the policies, but vagueness I’m not sure is one of them.
Hi Jason. Thanks for your comment. I don’t mean that the “public options” in the HELP and HR 3200 bills are vague to bloggers, or to relatively well-informed people about health care reformed. But to the public, the term “public option” doesn’t mean anything very concrete. Indeed, it can mean anything from what Jacob Hacker originally envisioned to what we now see in the HELP and HR 3200. Since Obama hasn’t committed to any specific bill, how can the public know what means by “public option that will keep insurance companies honest.” It’s doubtful that HELP or HR 3200 will keep the insurance companies honest for reasons outlined in Kip Sullivan’s piece. But can one take that as a reason to think that Obama’s claim is deceptive. Perhaps not, maybe he has a Jacob Hacker-type public option involved, so that he really believes that it will “keep them honest.”
And this brings us to another area of vagueness and ambiguity not present in “Medicare for All.” Specifically, we can’t point to any experience showing us how a “public option” plan might work. Right now it’s a wonk’s (Jacob Hacker’s) theory. But there’s no experience making it’s expected impact more concrete and familiar to people. With “Medicare for All,” we have Medicare to look at. We have Tricare to look at. And the impact of those programs is within the experience of millions of Americans. If we want to turn to the experience of other countries we can elicit the views of their citizens about their own single payer systems. So, there’s plenty of experience out there to gauge the likely impact of “Medicare for All,” if we want to implement that. But the “public option” idea, in contrast, is untested, and thought experiments about it and economic theory suggest that we’re not looking at one idea here, but rather at many possible variants of that idea. Some may work, many others won’t. We know that whether a variant will work or not has something to do with how its features would combine with an exchange to create a real insurance market instead of the sham we have today. But we have no idea which mix of public option and exchange features will work to create such a truly competitive market and which will not. With Congress trying to either destroy or minimize the public option, however, we can be pretty sure that the features of both they end up with won’t provide the competition we need.
I wasn’t too pleased with the editing job I did on my last reply to Jason, and the time for editing that reply has expired, so I’m offering this second, hopefully better edited, reply.
Hi Jason. Thanks for your comment. I don’t mean that the “public options” in the HELP and HR 3200 bills are vague to bloggers, or to relatively well-informed people about health care reform. But to the public, the term “public option” doesn’t mean anything very concrete. Indeed, it can mean anything from what Jacob Hacker originally envisioned, to what we now see in the HELP and HR 3200 Bills. Since Obama hasn’t committed to any specific bill, how can the public know what he means by “public option that will keep insurance companies honest.”
It’s doubtful that HELP or HR 3200 will keep the insurance companies honest for reasons outlined in Kip Sullivan’s piece. But can one take that as a reason to think that Obama’s claim is deceptive. Perhaps not, maybe he has a Jacob Hacker-type public option in mind, so that he really believes that a “public option” will “keep them honest.”
And this brings us to another area of vagueness and ambiguity not present in “Medicare for All.” Specifically, we can’t point to any experience showing us how a “public option” plan might work. Right now it’s a wonk’s (Jacob Hacker’s) theory. But there’s no experience making its expected impact more concrete and familiar to people. With “Medicare for All,” we have Medicare to look at. We have Tricare to look at. And the impact of those programs is within the experience of millions of Americans. If we want to turn to the experience of other countries we can elicit the views of their citizens about their own single payer systems.
So, there’s plenty of experience out there to gauge the likely impact of “Medicare for All,” if we want to implement that. But the “public option” idea, in contrast, is untested, and thought experiments about it and economic theory suggest that we’re not looking at one idea here, but rather at many possible variants of that idea. Some may work, many others won’t.
We know that whether a variant will work or not has something to do with how its features would combine with an exchange to create a real insurance market, instead of the sham we have today. But we have no idea which mix of public option and exchange features will work to create such a truly competitive market and which will not. With Congress trying to either destroy or minimize the public option, however, we can be pretty sure that the features of both they end up with won’t provide the competition we need.
Ok, fair point, messaging wise, we had to do a lot of work on public option, and there is more to do.
Still, I’m not sure why one is theoretical in practice and one isn’t. We don’t have Medicare for All in this country, nor do we have a public option. We can look to other countries for examples of both, but other countries are all different than how we would implement policies here. Studies have been done on both plans.
Basically, it will always be apples and oranges. Expanding Medicare to cover everyone is not just a simple expansion of Medicare. It, too, is an experiment that has not been tried before, and there would be a lot of issues to work out to implement it. A lot of people have done work to make it so it’s possible, and I’m not saying single payer won’t work, but we’ve got to admit that they are both new policies.
If your argument is that we know more about Medicare than we do the public option, you’re right. I’m not sure how that makes it better policy.
apples and oranges is right.
expanding medicare is NOT an experiment that’s never been tried before.
– canada’s medicare started in one town, spread to one province, and eventually spread to the entire country by 1970 [71? 72? early 1970s anyway].
– president johnson admired canada’s medicare so much that he patterned our medicare [started from scratch in 1965] after theirs, with the hope that one day it would expand from covering just old people to covering the entire country.
– australia started in the 1970s with a form of medicare [like canada’s, covering the entire country], went through a phase of re-privatization, and ended up in the 1980s with a mostly medicare-for-all system.
– in the mid-1990s taiwan had a system much like ours today, looked at a lot of other countries, and decided to model their new single payer system after… our medicare. yes, they started from scratch too.
MEDICARE, whether instituted in one fell swoop or started small and expanded over time, IS NOT A NEW POLICY. it is no longer an experiment. it is a proven solution.
running a tiny ‘public option’ alongside an established, nay entrenched, privatized [and largely predatory] insurance scheme IS a new experiment [unless you want to count the mostly failed experiments of medicare advantage and tenncare and several other privatization schemes in medicaid].
people are dying. we don’t need to do any more experiments.
Great Comment, Hipparchia. As I said earlier, the “public option” is just a theory. Medicare is an unrefuted well-tested theory. What’s wrong with doing something that has stood the test of time? Isn’t that real “pragmatism,” rather than the half-baked sort we have so far seen from this oh so clever self-styled “practical” Administration? Someone ought to tell them that practical is as practical does. But let me not get too far off the subject covered here.
“Single payer is the science-based solution.”
Lambertsrether, don’t know if I’d say that. I’m just not sure what it means.
What you said. We have a tested solution. It’s not the first time that it’s been tried. If we want to say it works, we’ve got data to back it up!
If that talking point doesn’t work for you don’t use it…
Sorry to be so sticky about it. I write a lot in Knowledge Management, and I’m one of a small minority in that field that works in the philosophy underlying the field. Over a period of time and also as a result of being involved in a study about varying conceptions of science sponsored by The Interactivity Foundation, I’ve become very careful about claiming that honorific. It works for me to say as you did:
i hadn’t thought of us americans as guinea pigs in a great international experiment until i read this article a couple of years ago.
we do sort of have some ‘public option’ experiments to point to, though they’re sort of in reverse. medicare and medicaid were both ‘public option’ plans at their inception, but over the years we’ve allowed some ‘private options’ to get a foot in the door.
medicare advantage is private, and costs about 14% than traditional medicare for the same care, and the private insurers have generally managed to cream off the healthiest seniors into their plans, leaving the sickest in the ‘public option’ part of medicare.
medicaid has been allowing ‘private option’ experiments [and apparently even enrolls some medicaid beneficiaries in private plan experiments arbitrarily] for some years, with the result that about 60% of medicaid enrollees are now in private managed care plans but states are still swamped by the huge bite medicaid takes out of their budgets, so they keep dropping people.
i’d argue that yes we do have examples of both kinds of experiments. public option vs private option steel cage death match has proven to be a fail, over and over, while the all-public plan has proven to be a win-win-win [for taxpayers, for people who need care, for people who provide care] every time.
Hipparchia, thanks for a nice analysis. I appreciate the correction and the examples of failing or failed mixed systems.
not meant as a correction, really. *i* think those qualify as public option vs private option experiments, and failed ones at that, but you’re not required to agree with me, since none of them came about through the exact mechanism [health insurance exchanges] that’s being proposed now. i just offer them up in case you want to use them that way.
a bit more on florida and louisiana.
One thing that “keeping them honest” depends on is enrollment — so many millions by what date. Does anybody have any idea of the enrollment numbers for the latest iteration of the “public plan,” whatever it might be?
Hi lambertstrether, CBO estimated that relative to HR 3200, 10 million would enroll in the short run, but wasn’t very confident of that estimate. In addition, they estimated that the Bill would leave 16 to 17 million people uninsured. I don’t think the proposed “public option” has changed materially since HR 3200 was approved by the first two House committees working on the legislation. Kip Sullivan calls this legislation the “switch” in a “bait and switch” process where Jacob Hacker’s original proposals for a public option assumed 129 million people with only 2 million left uninsured. Kip Sullivan calls out public option advocates for failing to inform the public that Hacker’s original public option proposal is far removed from what’s on the table currently. I think he’s right.
The suggestion seems to be that anyone who tried to explain the merits of a public option are guilty of a bait and switch? That is, if you don’t endorse sp and only sp, you are intellectally dishonest? And with that argument, you expect people to get behind that postion?
Scarecrow, I don’t know why you’ve begun to suggest that I’m making personal attacks on anyone. In my comment I pointed said:
“Kip Sullivan calls out public option advocates for failing to inform the public that Hacker’s original public option proposal is far removed from what’s on the table currently. I think he’s right.”
I think that’s a factual assertion. Now if some public option advocates have offered an analysis lately showing how divergent the PO proposal in HR 3200 is from Jacob Hacker’s original proposals on the PO, and you can provide the cite, then I certainly stand corrected. But, if you can’t cite something like this, then I think that Kip Sullivan is right.
You also asked:
“That is, if you don’t endorse sp and only sp, you are intellectually dishonest?”
I’m certainly not suggesting that in this comment which was only talking about Sullivan’s factual claim.
In another post, I explored the connection between disingenuousness and supporting the public option, and I said there that two types of supporters of the public option were being disingenuous and I said why I thought this was so. I also indicated that there was a third kind of “honest Broker” supporter of the PO, whose approach to it, would, if implemented be unstable. In any event, if you want to discuss my analysis in that other post I’ll be happy to do so. However, to conclude, I don’t think I’ve said: “if you don’t endorse sp and only sp, you are intellectually dishonest,” anywhere.
I have written at least a half dozen posts warning about the problem of limiting the PO eligibility and/or hobbling its effectiveness, arguing for open access rules, even immediately or phased in. Just click on my name in any of my posts and you’ll find them. I warned about “hobbling” from the time of Schumer’s “level playing field” because I knew it could be used to cripple the PO’s ability to pull people away from the private system. I’ve written three or four posts on open access principles. When the HELP Committee bill came out, I describe the limits on access and warned against them.
Kips statement lumped everyone together, and its wrong. Kip has commented on at least one of my threads. Is it his contention, or yours, that any one who writes favorably about the concept of a PO, as I have, has been deliberately misleading the public?
Scarecrow,
First, that is not my contention. And as I pointed out to you in one of my earlier replies, I make no such blanket claims, but divide PO supporters into different groups, including a group of “Honest Brokers,” which, of course, immediately implies that I am making no such claims.
As for yourself, I don’t put you anywhere in my classification, since as you’ve pointed out, and, as I have been well aware, since I assiduously read, and have greatly benefited from, your posts, you are both an SP supporter and a supporter of a strong PO besides. My analysis in my earlier post overlooked your position of supporting both. I’ll correct that error by happily acknowledging it now.
Second, as for Kip Sullivan, I don’t know if he has ever claimed that “any one who writes favorably about the concept of a PO, as I have, has been deliberately misleading the public,” but he certainly didn’t do that in his bait-and-switch piece. That piece is clearly taking to task the most prominent PO adherents who failed to point out the difference between what’s in bills like HR 3200 and the HELP bill, and the details of Jacob Hacker’s original public option proposals. Kip appears to believe that they should be pointing out such differences in a highly visible and explicit way to PO supporters. In this I agree with him. Do you disagree with that factual claim, and, if so, why?
There is no “factual claim” to dispute. It’s been obvious since the bills came out they they are limited. The bills are public and anyone can read them. I pointed it out at the time. I was not the only one. It’s not a secret anyone is trying to hide. But somehow, the fact that someone, unnamed, did not advertise this is a sign of bait and switch.
That description implies duplicity by the advocates, but all that happened, as far as I know, is that there was a concept proposed and Congress took that concept and diluted it. I don’t see any evidence to support any other accusation of bad faith.
It’s as though PO supporters always wanted a weakened version and deliberately misled people into thinking that what was still on the table was stronger. That description doesn’t fit me, and I resent it, and I suspect others do as well.
As for any original discussions of what should or should not be attempted because of political feasibility, I know nothing of this, as I was not involved. But I don’t assume anyone acted in bad faith. My own view is that any proposal that poses a challenge to the insurance industry has a small chance of success. I do not know whether we can win even a limited, phased in concept. I have no way of knowing with any certainty that another strategy would have worked better; I understand the arguments, but I don’t find them convincing. They may be right or wrong, but they aren’t compelling to me.
I am reasonably certain that this breach is hurting the chances of getting anything. And I regret that.
Speaker Pelosi is going to give Medicare for All a floor vote.
1. Speaking as an HCAN staffer, would you please tell us whether HCAN will budget any staff or advertising time into supporting this effort?
2. Speaking as an FDL posted, would you please give your view on whether FDL should whip for this bill, or not?
Hi Jason, Your reply is very reasonable, but I still think not entirely persuasive.
Both alternatives are theoretical in the sense that we don’t know for sure that either will work in our specific time and place. Since the public option hasn’t been tested we can’t say that it has failed anywhere in the sense that it has failed to deliver higher quality care to everyone. And we also can’t say that it’s worked anywhere.
However, because of the concentrated state of the health insurance market and the arguments brought by Krugman against the idea that there can be a functioning free market in an economic domain like health care, we have good reason to think that the public option won’t work here in the United States.
On the other hand, we know that single payer works better in many other countries than our present system does here, and that our citizens are constantly falling behind those of other nations on critical measures such as life expectancy, infant mortality, and mortality related to pregnancy. We also know that single payer works better than the private insurance system here in this country, both in Tricare and in Medicare.
So, I think that single payer has been tested, and the theory that it works well for democratic nations, both English speaking and non-English speaking has stood the test of time. Now, that doesn’t mean it won’t fail tomorrow when we try it; but why should it? What critcisms can one bring against it related to American conditions that give it a greater likelihood of failure, than the criticism that market concentration undermines the sort of public option we have in HR 3200, gives to the likelihood of failure of the public option alternative?
The most plausible criticism of Medicare for All is the notion that it’s politically unacceptable to Americans because it’s “socialized medicine” and will give them less “choice” than they have now. But I’ve already provided reasons why I think that this political criticism of Medicare for All is simply not justified by the current, admittedly somewhat new, political atmosphere in America.
I’ve been hearing that old saw “The Government better keep its hands off my Medicare”, once again; this time in the context of an Obama Town Hall in a remark made to a North Carolina Congressman. I think that the kind of attitude toward Medicare indicated by this statement suggests that Medicare for All can be sold to the American people.
Of course, we’ll have to remind them that “their” Medicare is “theirs” because it is a Government program that they and all Americans have banded together to implement and support through “their” Government. But after that, I think that if one asks them whether they think extending the same program to every American will work and is a good idea, they will answer with a resounding yes. We really ought to forget about the public option, even at this late date, and give a Medicare for All sales job a try.
The problem with this is that single payer is not a universal thing. Every health care system in every country is different, with its own quirks. They share similar features, but they are not the same, and those differences are not small. Medicare for all would be another variant, with its own quirks. Would it work? Sure, I have no doubt. That’s not the point.
Which brings me to the politics. You say we can pass this in our new political climate. I say we can’t. Hell, we’re not even sure we can get a public option through the Senate. How exactly do you get 60 votes for single payer?
I agree that Medicare for All will be different here than single payer in other countries, but not so different that there is reason to believe that it wouldn’t work. And you and I both agree that it would, and also that it would be best if we could pass that. So, we also seem to agree that it comes down to the politics of what’s more practical to try to get passed. So let’s get to that again.
First, we don’t need 60 votes. We can do it through reconciliation. If we care enough about it, AND we have enough support for it out there, we can even use “the nuclear option,” to get rid of the filibuster altogether. Of course, we’ll need to go through the Kabuki part of it first, and it will probably never get to “the nuclear option” itself, because the Republicans and Blue Dogs will blink first, wanting to save the filibuster for a fight where there’s not such a great public outcry.
Moving on, however, I think the argument that if we can’t even get a public option, how can we get Medicare for All, is the fundamental misunderstanding that some progressive organizations and the Obama Administration made in the first place. This is not a linear left-more left thing, as they envisioned. When it comes to mobilizing support for health care reform, you can’t get people to care about a public option the way they would care about Medicare for All. The reason is the greater compexity, vagueness, and ambiguity we talked about before, and that I’ve written about earlier.
Regular people don’t know what “public option” means. They have no image of it. They especially would find it hard to accept that a miniscule “public option” like the one in HR 3200 could possibly help them pay less for insurance, or hold their present insurance costs steady, if they’re not even eligible for a public option, that won’t even be operative for another four years. And they’re also unlikely to accept the argument that such a small public option will have a “market impact” reducing prices charged by private insurance companies.
On the other hand, they know exactly what Medicare for ALL means, because their parents or Grandparents are already on Medicare for Seniors. So, if Medicare for All were on the table right now, people would CARE about that, they would know that it is likely to work and that it could serve them as well as their parents, and they could be brought to pressure Congress for that, in a way that they can’t be brought to pressure them for the HR 3200 public option.
So, it’s not a matter of, “well if they won’t support a public option, how can they be expected to support Medicare for All.” It’s a matter of whether what is being proposed is worth getting excited about. A public option plan like HR 3200 isn’t worth people getting excited about, and they know it, and that’s why you can’t get support for it.
In fact, you’ve already sacrificed the support of your most enthusiastic cadre; those who really want single payer. You figured that they would support you anyway, because a public option is better than nothing at all.
That’s true, but what you failed to take into account is caring. The strongest supporters of health care reform, the single payer people, can’t get excited about the miniscule public option in HR 3200 and don’t care that much about it. The people, more generally, can’t understand it either. That’s why no one’s excited about it. Medicare for All is worth getting excited about, so the intensity of support both from the single payer cadre and people, more generally, for that, would be much greater than it is for what is now on the table. In short, while you can’t get people to support the public option, you can win the battle for single payer; if you’d only fight it.
Bravo. Thanks. You give me hope that we aren’t going to have to wait 10 or 15 years to get this done.
I’m afraid we will if we lose this time, and we don’t require the Congresspersons and Senators we vote for in the future to bring up Medicare for All in every Congress until it’s passed, whether ot not the President wants to put in any time on it. We’ve got to decide not to go away again as we and the Clintons did after their health care failure.
Jason,
You are paid by HCAN. You need to keep disclosing that.
HCAN= Herdon did a yeoman’s work in making sure single payer was out of the equation from the get go. They drove the political discussion in this direction for their own reasons- this is the deeper political issue.
Lgitd- nice diary.
Here’s some history:
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/…..da_lak.php
http://www.pnhp.org/news/2008/….._celin.php
Excerpts–
The Herndon Alliance asked Lake to do the impossible — to find evidence for their belief that Americans don’t want a single-payer system and do want a multiple-payer system, all the while pretending that they had not already decided that a multiple-payer system has to be the basis of any solution to the American health care crisis. Lake gave the Herndon Alliance the conclusions they were seeking, but without any evidence to back them up.
Kirsch and other leaders of the Herndon Alliance have continued to misrepresent Lake’s poll as representatives of Health Care for America Now (HCAN), a new incarnation of the Herndon Alliance. HCAN (a name no doubt adopted to signify the group’s support for Jacob Hacker’s Health Care for America plan) announced its existence in July 2008. Many of HCAN’s leaders and members are also leaders and members of the Herndon Alliance.
Thanks I was unaware of that background. It’s unfortunate when folks who’ve already decided on what the right thing to do is, then decide to shape reality in such a way that others can’t even choose any other thing. This is called reflexivity. It was a Karl Rove thing, and it is the phenomenon behind the crash of 2008 and countless other social phenomena. See George Soros’s books for more on reflexivity, and see also these blogs.
On reflexivity… I thought I was literally the only one in the world who saw “we’re an empire now. We create our own reality” as ideological trickle-down from the worldview of financial innovators. But no! And there’s a lot of that particular malady going about these days…
Agreed. And also, thanks for the link to Suskind.
Perhaps this will help add some perspective:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com…..ment-59728
Ralphbon’s comments are below. Link is above.
Beg your pardon?
The fact is that while single-payer advocacy is not censored on these sites, it most definitely has been accorded second-class citizenship since the Seminal takeover. Not a single post that unequivocally advocates for single payer or strongly critiques the public option concept has been accorded front-page status on the diary blog since the Seminal superseded Oxdown and a paid representative of HCAN became a gatekeeper for diary elevation.
Indeed, it was only after I protested that Jason agreed to identify himself as an employee of HCAN on every one of his institutional cross-posts.
Your content-free ad hominem attack on lambertstrether is unworthy of FDL.
Thanks for the further background Valley Girl. It’s good to know. I really like ralphbon’s contributions and have benefited from them myself.
VG — there is some confusion here.
The Seminal is open to anyone to post, just like Oxdown. SP advocates post there all the time.
What gets promoted to FDL front page is not controlled by the new folks at Seminal.
Yesterday featured an SP post on FDL’s front page.
There was a recent Book Salon by an advocate of SP
My posts frequently appear on FDL fp, and I am advocate of either sp or a concept of PO that could lead to SP.
We are in a circular firing squad and need to stop shooting.
Scarecrow, we may be in a circular firing squad, and, if so, we need to disband it, but I think that has much to do with the fact that Medicare for All is off the table. If we all work to get it honest consideration from the Congress and the Administration on all fours with the PO, I think the circular firing squad is much more likely to disband. One doesn’t get unity in a movement, by excluding a strongly supported proposal by part of the movement from consideration, as the President did.
So, Jason comes on the thread to state his view point, and for that he gets compared to Karl Rove?
Hi Scarecrow, I was responding to Valley Girl’s story with a more general point about reflexivity. To illustrate the notion I gave some of these examples and one of them happened to involve Karl Rove’s very conscious notion of politics as trying to capitalize on reflexivity making new realities. My example wasn’t intended to personally attack anyone, least of all Jason.
But reflexivity is what it is. And attempts to capitalize on it are quite real, whether practiced by Rove or anyone else. When the Administration took sp off the table, it knew that its action would have a negative feedback effect on sp relative to the public option, and make sp much less popular than it otherwise would have been. So, by declaring sp politically unfeasible both the Administration and HCAN were doing something to make it so, and also to make it much more difficult to have discussions in high places about whether sp or PO is the better way to go about reform.
Nice, Valley Girl. Very informative. I was thinking a couple weeks ago of writing a diary about “Shutting Up Celinda Lake.” Thought it was a little harsh and didn’t have much to back it up other than being tired of her relentless polling to come up with “messaging”. And how our dumb Donkeys repeat her phrases over and over. “Healthcare must be accessible and affordable.” This is what I get when I write to Tester and Baucus. Crap! Thanks for making the links. Dump these pseudo liberals.
montanamaven- well, your instincts and/or intuition were excellent. Glad to have been able give you more specifics.
Great idea.
Where was HCAN when that might have made a difference?
And why not compromise? Throw out the whole Rube Goldberg-esque machinery of the Health Exchanges, and all that. Throw it out.
Just start lowering Medicare eligibility. Lower it by 2 years every year until everyone is covered. No new machinery, no nothing. It’s a popular program, and the closer people are to it the better they like it, and the more they want to get into it. So, lower to 63, then 61, and so on and so forth.
Easy peasy.
Too slow, I think. Still leaves too many people dying, going bankrupt, and in broken marriages caused by financial stress and divorce. Still leaves too many businesses with rising health care costs they can no longer afford.
This is an important comment. It responds to the notion that it may be advisable to phase in sp over time — by gradually lowering the age of eligibility. It seems an idea worth discussing, and different people can/would disagree about what the best phased in looks like.
But I want to point out that if those who have some hope that a PO might evolve into sp over time are also working from the same concept. SP is the goal, but getting there over time is a matter of how it gets phased in. But if suggesting the idea is deemed to be dishonest or a moral sell out, or a bait and switch, it pretty much ends the conversation.
Again, I don’t think I’ve suggested that anyone who supports the PO is necessarily being dishonest, but, I also think, as I pointed out here that there are PO supporters of at least three types and that two of the three types aren’t interested in maintaining a mix of public and private insurers. They are looking for evolution either to SP, or to the failure and elimination of the public option, and they want to structure the PO legislation to produce one result or the other depending on which they favor. A third type of supporter “the honest broker” is rarer than the other two in my view, and, also, is looking for a result that is unstable in the long run.
Well, frankly, I don’t care how long it took HCAN to get on board with the right proposal, Jason, at least, has arrived, and I happen to agree with him. I find the idea of subsidizing private, for-profit insurers with tax payer money a complete bullshit policy. Not only does Medicare for All get the job done, but it’s the fiscally responsible thing to do.
Since Pelosi has now said we will have a Medicare for All floor vote, I really hope liberals and progressives take advantage of it and push for the right reform right now.
Oops. Not Jason, letsgetitdone.
Masslib, Thanks for the comment and the correction.
I find it amazing that anyone believe in our current political climate we can not nationalize our health care payer but we could nationalize the auto industry. Just sayin.
Hi masslib, please keep in mind that Medicare for all is not nationalization of health care. It is only socialized health insurance for basic care for everyone. The hospitals, the providers, the drug purveyors, etc. will still all be private. See this one for the distinction.
Well, that’s why I said health “payer”, not health care. Though, even there I would still expect people to purchase private supplemental insurance as they do now under Medicare, much like the French system. However, I do think what happened with the auto industry demonstrates that what is politically possible has changed a lot in the last year as a result of the economy. So, I don’t think the argument, “Oh, well, it isn’t politically possible” really flies anymore.
We should not even get into whether Medicare is socialized care or socialized administration. People know what Medicare is, so all we have to say is Medicare for ALL, and they’ll get it.
Oh, now that Pelosi has said there will be a vote, do you think the MCM* will pay attention to single payer? Obama’s Chicago personal physician? PNHP?
Wonder if it’ll make the late night news.
That’s where the naming comes in–if it’s called single payer, it’s a more difficult sale. If it’s Medicare for All, already sold and just need to persuade that it can and will be enlarged for any and all who need it.
*MCM–Mainstream Corporate Media
Agree that the naming is very important and that Medicare for All is much better than single payer. On the distinction between socialized insurance and socialized medicine, we’ll get charged with Medicare for All being socialized medicine, and at some point we’ll have to make the point that their Medical Care is not being socialized, but that the funding of their care is being taken over by their Government from their nasty, immoral, blood-sucking insurance company that’s been screwing them, their family, and friends for many years. I think they’ll easily buy that because everybody knows the stories about the insurance companies. They know that it’s they who have been denying services, leaving people to die, and forcing them into bankruptcy, and not Medicare or Tricare.
Oh, totally confused. Jason is the HCAN guy.
Jason, You say “we now have two bills that spell out exactly what [the public option] is.” Could you tell us in your own words how the HELP and House bills describe the “public option”? Just pick one bill — no need to do both bills — and tell us what the “public option” will look like according to that bill. To get the conversation going, let’s focus on one very important question. Could you tell me what the premiums of the “public option” will be in relation to the insurance industry, either on a national basis or in any region of the country of your choosing? I’m not looking for precision. I’m looking for an example of your statement that the Democrats’ bills tell us “exactly” what the features of the “option” will be. Surely there is no more important feature of the proposed “public option” than its ability to set its premiums below those of the insurance industry.
If you think this is an unfair test of your characterization of the Democrats’ bills as telling us “exactly” what the POs will look like, I’m open to discussing another feature.
Kip Sullivan
Thanks for your question to Jason, Kip. Very well taken. And my sincere compliments on your great “Bait and Switch” piece.
You’re very welcome.
Kip
Once again: Find a Congress Critter’s office near you; show up with a large sign saying “Medicare for All: We KNOW what it is, we KNOW it works, we KNOW how it works.” Or “HR 676 — Medicare for All: Talk to your representative NOW.” Or “Medicare for All: HR 676. 30 Pages! You can understand it!”
Etc. Any better suggestions most welcome.
Walk in front of the local office a few hours, a few days Take your sign to public meetings your rep holds in the district.
Get some friends to go with you. Take your dog. Cat, if it’s good on a leash. Cockapoo, too, or cockatiel.
It is the only plan everyone can explain, everyone can understand. They know once you get on Medicare you can choose your own doctor once again.
Leave out cost savings, leave out morality of covering everyone. Just get it out there.
Thanks, Jawbone. That’s what we’ve got to do, whether Obama likes it or not. The first one who should get that treatment is Jim Moran. What’s wrong with him? Why isn’t he for HR 676? If he says he is, then why won’t he guarantee a “no” vote for anything else.
I like it. We have been out with signs in front of Baucus’ offices and by his Camp Baucus this weekend where people pay $5000 to talk to his staffers. Staffers, of course, with lobbyists write the bills. Baucus then shows up for the signing ceremony. People stop now and ask “What exactly is single payer?”
This is a good thing.
It is a good thing; but they’d know what it was if we called it “Medicare for all.”
If Obama wants a second term, he will get on board for Medicare for All.
Hi Jawbone, I think there’s a lot of truth to that. So far he’s got a marvelous record of half measures that don’t solve problems. If he does that with health care reform and keeps doing that, then he can kiss goodbye the mass movement aspect of his support in 2008.
It seems to me Obama is not going to change his message without significant push from liberals. What is your response to word that there will be a House floor vote on Medicare for All?
My response is that it’s window dressing, unless we can mobilize people to come to Washington to demonstrate here and across the country for Medicare for All. There’s got to be a mass movement for this or there’s no way we can scare the Congress enough to overcome the health insurance industry. If we can get the mass movement going we may be able to get Obama behind it, provided he can be persuaded that if he doesn’t and supports the present very inadequate bills on the table, there are going to be a lot of angry people out there, and a lot of people who may be looking for other leadership (not Republican, of course) in the next election. If we want to pass this we’ve got to make it personal.
Well, er, I know I can’t afford to go to DC. It’s a tradeoff between that and food. I shouldn’t even be blogging. Any way to make it personal LOCALLY and distribute virally?
Sure. Through Blogs and social networking, and the more local demonstrations the better. But you already know this, I’m sure.
Maybe no new infrastructure is needed. But the role of the larger blogs has been so, er, problematical on public option vs. single payer that I’m not sure. Thoughts?
Smaller blogs. Maybe social networking tools like Linkedin, Ning (ning.com), facebook, twitter. Firedog Lake seems to be good for discussing these issues. Seems like a free environment so far.
http://www.opensecrets.org/pre…..hp?ind=H03
And, this link contains an interesting factoid in grapic form.
Health industry donations in 2008
Barack Obama (D) $1,408,800
Hillary Clinton (D) $575,296
John McCain (R) $426,478
Mitt Romney (R) $186,700
The category includes more than just insurers, so it’s unclear for how much Obama is beholden to them.
good point. I’ll try to see if I can find more details.
Thanks.
Ralphbon, is the promised vote for single payer to be on the Weiner amendment, which subs HR 676 for HR 3200, or a different Kucinich amendment? Any wording at hand? Thnx.
David Swanson at American Chronicle looks at strategies, tactics which pertain to this upcoming vote.
Scarecrow,
Thanks for your reply. You said:
I don’t you think you’re directly addressing Kip Sullivan’s criticism. His point is that when Congress diluted the concept, HCAN, Jacob Hacker, and other well-known people advocating the PO did not explain to the larger progressive community that HR 3200 and the HELP bills are, materially, very, very different from the original proposal. Certainly, you’ve pointed that out from the beginning. But, also clearly, Kip’s piece was not about you. (BTW, full disclosure, I have had no contact with Kip other than reading his post, and commenting on it. So my views on his piece are based solely on my reading it.)
You also said:
I’ve never said in my posts, nor have I seen a claim in Kip’s piece, asserting that “PO supporters always wanted a weakened version . . .” However, I remain persuaded that the claim he did make, which I’ve summarized above is true and that his article was on the mark about this.
As for arguments over feasibility, I simply don’t agree with you on this. My own blogs have outlined the case for believing that the public option strategy is, and always has been way off the mark. We can’t, of course, directly test the counter-factual, now that the original opportunity has passed us by, but we can certainly point out, as I have, the faults in the public option strategy, and my reasons for thinking that even if one wanted a stronger and more robust public option as an outcome of the legislative process, we would all have been, and would still be, better off if we had all gotten behind single payer. Anyway the blogs making the arguments are all here.
Finally, I do agree with you that this breach is hurting our chances of getting something good out of this. Of course, I think that if we could heal the breach by fighting for Medicare for All, beginning immediately, we would have our best chance of getting something good out of this. If we all united around the public option however, I think this would likely produce the worst result of the three alternatives. If, however, we remain split, and SP advocates can pick up a good deal of support in the immediate future, I really don’t see how that can hurt the PO position.
In fact, I believe that a resurrection of Medicare for all as a real force in the debate would only lessen the resistance to PO that we see now. Remember, in attacking the PO idea, the industry is taking no risks, because the PO in HR 3200 and HELP is about the worst it can get right now, without getting rid of the PO. But if Medicare for All were on the table we’d be exposing the health insurance industry to greater risk of losing most of their business, and in that case they might not be so intransigent when it comes to agreeing upon a really robust PO.