Sometime during the past 32 years many prominent Democrats forgot the lessons of the Great Depression, or never learned them, and, instead, absorbed the lessons of Hooverism, in part from Ronald Reagan who believed in the religion of free market capitalism, and also in the derivative idea that real economic growth always come from the private sector, but also, in part, I think, from Democratic opposition to Reagan’s deficit’s, which they opposed, not simply because they were incurred to give tax cuts to the rich, but also, on the old-time religious grounds that balanced budgets and surpluses should be the norm for a virtuous America.
Bill Clinton reinforced the old-time religion when his restrained public spending coupled with good economic fortune in the private sector, led to higher Federal revenues, and to surpluses in the last years of his Administration. Democrats since have taken these surpluses as points of pride, and proof that it is the Democratic Party that is fiscally responsible, and not the Republicans, who shortly after the accession of George W. Bush returned to deficit spending. In taking pride in Clinton’s “achievement,” Democrats have conveniently ignored that the very end of the Clinton Administration was marked by a recession following the collapse of the Internet bubble of 1999. They make no connection between the appearance of that recession, and the Administration’s insistence on managing for budget surpluses rather than for economic development and job growth.
The Obama Administration, of course, hasn’t been able to avoid deficit spending, since the mess left it by the Bush Administration, the sharply declining tax revenues caused by the Great Recession, and the need to prevent a full-fledged collapse into a depression has forced it to engage in deficit spending in order to save the financial system and to provide some economic stimulus. Yet in the course of this deficit spending, a concern about deficit neutrality and making progress toward a balanced budget has affected its actions. In the stimulus area, a program that may have been only 50% of what was necessary to end the Great recession has been passed and is being implemented. Why didn’t the Administration push for, as some economists were proposing, a $1.6 Trillion stimulus with a much larger jobs component?
One reason, of course, is the greater political difficulty involved in passing that. But at the time of consideration of the stimulus package, the President’s popularity was overwhelming. Insistence on the larger package coupled with appeals over the heads of Congress to the people would probably have won the day, especially if the President had been willing to ask Harry Reid to use the nuclear option to pass such an expanded package. A second reason, for not passing an expanded package, however, may well have been the President’s belief that recovery really ought to come from the private sector, and that the role of Government ought to be limited to preventing a fall into depression and creating the underlying conditions for growth, but not extended into actually providing jobs programs to people who are suffering because they are unemployed. In setting his priorities this way, I think the President was reflecting a belief that deficit spending ought to be restricted to coping with or preventing the occurrence of problems that threaten our system in a fundamental way as a depression would have, but that it should not be used to cope with problems that, however, severe, do not rise to that level of basic threat to our system.
The President’s concern about deficit spending is certainly reflected in his framing of health care reform. Evidently, he doesn’t think that the 45,000 annual deaths, the more than one million annual bankruptcies, and the hundreds of thousands of annual foreclosures due to lack of health insurance, represent a sufficiently serious crisis to justify legislating a reform using deficit spending. And his desire to avoid deficit spending is certainly a factor in his seeking a reform that would not involve total Federal health care expenditures of more than $900 Billion over 10 years, and that would need only small tax increases to fund it. In turn, this desire for limited expenditures and deficit neutrality explains his desire to take Medicare for All off the table as a serious policy alternative. I think the president just didn’t want to cope with a policy that would have required a minimum of $1.7 Trillion in Federal expenditures each year, even if such a policy would have saved $800 Billion in health expenditures annually to be applied to other purposes in the private economy.
Most recently, we see President Obama’s concern about deficit financing expressed in reply to the latest calls for a jobs program. At the jobs summit he stated:
. . . While I believe that Government has a critical role in creating the conditions for economic growth, ultimately, true economic recovery is only going to come from the private sector. We don’t have enough public dollars to fill the hole of private dollars that was created as a consequence of the crisis.
This statement reflects two beliefs which I believe are incredibly destructive to the economy and the United States in the circumstances we face now and will face in the future. First, where is it written that Government’s role is limited to creating the conditions for economic growth, but can’t have a direct part in the recovery itself? Surely, that is not the history of the New Deal. It is not the history of the recovery in World War II. It is not the history of great public projects like the Tennessee Valley Authority. This isn’t pragmatism, or a reaffirmation of the “can do” spirit. What it is, is a statement of Obama’s ideology and its constraints, his economic religion that he shares with Ronald Reagan, and unfortunately, with too much of today’s Democratic Party, which has joined the Republicans in starving the public sector for years. It is the ideology that says that real wealth and real economic advance come only from the private sector, and that Government programs can’t create real wealth and lasting value. In this time of trouble and the crying need for re-invention of our economy, we can’t afford these constraints or this religious belief. We have to open ourselves to the idea that there are certain things we need now like providing jobs for people to help to reconstruct our economic infrastructure and to begin the reconstruction of our energy industries that, in the absence of private sector willingness to do them have to be done by us acting collectively through our Government.
And the need to put people to work and to create real value in the economy where the private sector will not for the moment do so, brings us to the President’s belief that there aren’t “enough public dollars to fill the hole of private dollars . . . “ This belief is flat out false. The president shouldn’t believe it, and we shouldn’t believe him when he says it. This is a typical assumption of the “old-time religion” that Obama seems still to adhere to and that is hurting us now, since it is an important rationalization for him refusing to put through a comprehensive and powerful jobs program that would restore consumption power and end the Great Recession in short order.
The belief that the Government has limited dollars is one of a number of false beliefs that pervade both politics and Government in relation to economic issues. Warren Mosler, following John Kenneth Galbraith, has called some of these beliefs “innocent frauds” and, in addition, has called them deadly. Nor is Mosler the only one to use similar language to characterize beliefs like the President’s. During the 1990s Rick Boettger, characterized both the deficit and national debt as myths and lies. Robert Eisner, a former President of the American Economic Association wrote The Great Deficit Scares, and The Misunderstood Economy, two books in which he wrote of myths surrounding the deficit. Also, Francis X. Cavanaugh, a former high-level Treasury official gives a lucid account of five myths about the national debt and then advocates for spending control to keep politicians responsible, but not to prevent expenditures directed at solving severe national problems.
In these and other works, everyone agrees that the idea that Government Dollars are in any way limited for any particular purpose we have in mind is false. American currency is the creation of the US Government. It can create (i.e. print, or electronically allocate using computers) as many dollars as it wants or needs to. If dollars are limited it is due to our choice. It is because we, ourselves, adopt rules that limit the number of dollars that the Government can spend. As Mosler briefly puts it:
Government spending is NOT operationally limited, or in any way constrained by taxing or borrowing.
And he goes on:
But as long as government continues to believe this first of 7 deadly innocent frauds- that they need to get money from taxing or borrowing in order to spend, they will continue to support policy that constrains output and employment, and prevents us from achieving what are otherwise readily available economic outcomes.
In short, the President believes that Federal dollars for a jobs program necessary to end The Great Recession are limited. He can only believe that because he believes that the Federal Government has to either tax or borrow to get those dollars. This belief is false, and it can’t provide either a rationale or an excuse for not funding as large-scale a jobs program as Americans need to go back to work.
Finally, the posture that The Government can only do so much to lower unemployment in this recession, because its dollars are limited is not the kind of language we ought to be hearing from a Democratic President. It is the kind of language we are used to hearing from Mike Spence, or Judd Gregg, or Mitch McConnell, or some other Neanderthal, and not from a Democratic progressive who believes in the usefulness of Government in addressing serious social and economic problems.
More than that, it is the posture of Herbert Hoover, a really fine man, with more than a few progressive instincts, who hamstrung himself into accepting the slide into depression by his commitment to free market ideology and his belief that he had to wait for the private economy to prove that “prosperity is just around the corner.” President Obama often sounds like Hoover, asking those without a job, with much reduced or no income, with a shredded, and with severely damaged futures to be patient while his earlier inadequate stimulus package does its work, and while he does very little to alleviate their difficulties. Can anyone imagine FDR acting the way Obama is acting now? Or would he, in contrast, be devising measure after measure to create jobs and prime the economy, and bullying the Congress to pass those measures? He was a real leader of a nation in trouble. Why is Obama failing to follow his example, and following Hoover’s instead?
(Also posted at the alllifeisproblemsolving blog where there may be more comments)



65 Comments







You are a student of history. Maybe a little, maybe a lot.
You compare Obama to two previous presidents.
He is a sack of shit.
So I guess there’s some comparison. Bush I and II. Clinton. Reagan.
So on the one hand we have the Party of Obama, the new Hoover, and on the other we have the Party of Wingnuts. This wasn’t how it was in 1932. It’s much scarier now.
In a way it is. But remember that in the ’30s there were communists, Nazis, rightists like Huey Long and Father Couglin, lurking, as well Norman Thomas’s socialists, and the KKK still around somewhere. That was pretty scary too. In 1935, Roosevelt was very concerned about the growing popularity of many of these groups, and he decided to move left to meet the competition of some of them.
the kkk wasn’t ‘around somewhere’ in the 1930s, they were out in plain sight.
i think things aren’t quite as scary today as they were in the 30s, but then again, i wasn’t around then, so i can’t compare them directly. nobody in the family is talking about selling off their part of the family farm just to survive, which is something my grandfather did to keep his family alive during the depression.
so yeah, it could be worse, and here’s hoping we can turn things around before we get to that cliff.
Thanks hipparchia, I’m afraid we’re still going in the wrong direction and that a double-dip is coming because they haven’t really coped with the real estate problem or cleaned those toxic assets away.
Communists and socialists would be a good thing about right now. A good old-fashioned general strike would at least put fear in the hearts of those who would otherwise sacrifice us on a cross of “revenue-neutrality.”
Communism and Capitalism are both intellectually bankrupt. Modern socialism is a bit different, I think because it’s really mixed economyism and pretty pragmatic. However, it doesn’t have much coherence as an ideology. I think we do need new ideologies and new movements to help us change.
It doesn’t really matter if any particular version of political economy (e.g. “Communism and Capitalism”) is “intellectually bankrupt,” because the intellectuals can justify anything. My criticism as such is probably just a criticism of imprecise wording.
What matters IMHO is whether or not the applied version of any particular doctrine works. The capitalist system “worked” insofar as it replaced various forms of rural peasant production with a wage-labor system appropriate to a system of mass production. This was effective in putting a lot of cheap, technologized goodies in peoples hands as well as being a more secure form of domination for the ruling classes who were the capitalist system’s main beneficiaries. Capitalism, on the other hand, appears to have largely “run its course” — the corporate hunger for profits appears to have greatly exceeded the system’s ability to deliver, and that situation has been ongoing for the past thirty-five years amidst worsening ecological crises and a steady increase in the power of financial parasites over the sources of intellectual productivity. Thus the ineffectuality of Obama’s advocacy of “capitalist” solutions to social problems.
What also matters IMHO is whether the advocates of any form of governance are effective in “moving the pile forward” — in other words, is the advocacy of any form of radical change is effective in unsticking the mental inertia of the intellectual public sphere of its time. Thus the advocacy of “communism” and “socialism” have always been good for the working class regardless of whether or not any such utopian system of political economy has been attainable. The “communists” and “socialists” open up the conversation to the active consideration of “Left” alternatives to the status quo. The presence of socialists in 1930s America, for instance, made Roosevelt’s New Deal seem relatively “moderate.” It’s always the radicals who make it possible for the liberals to get things done.
I agree, in part, but I don’t believe that intellectuals can justify anything. What they can justify depends on the recent track record of those using the ideology in action. Laissez-faire capitalism just isn’t as easy to justify now as it was a few years ago.
I agree with you about the historical function of socialism and communism i shifting perspectives to the left, and I’d like to see other leftist ideologies appear. But traditional socialism and communism have no credibility here and I think we need to invent a new leftist ideology that makes sense for our time. For the present, we’re fortunate that the vitality has been sapped from free market ideologies.
I think this reliance on ideology gets us (the nation) in trouble. I see two impulses in America that are relevant to this discussion. The 1st is ideology driven themes which can be fairly linked to religion and America’s reflexive devotion to it. just like Baptist fundamentalism, Americans will cleave strongest to right wing ideologies like free-marketeering, guns make us safer, greed is good, environmentalism is bad for business etc. (I understand that these are more slogans and positions than ideologies but they are the brick and mortar to the overarching ideology that says, in effect, that the business controlled hierarchy status quo is altogether good and proper.) If Americans are going to follow an ideology it will naturally and historically tend to be a right wing one. Leftist ideologies have never gotten much traction here. Hence I think that over reliance on ideologies, especially complex ones, aren’t the best way to go in America.
The 2nd impulse in this country is good old CAN DO -ism. It used to be called Yankee ingenuity, but the term is out of date. In fact the impulse toward trying what is most likely to work, on the ground, toward common sense goals could be accurately described as a “let’s get it done” approach.
I think a goal oriented, facts driven, pragmatic, straight talkin’, platform and style is what this country is crying out for right now. America’s eyes need to be kept on the prize and not get mucked up in what many would deride as “egghead ideology.” I don’t want to fall into that trap.
Now, how can I disagree with a letsgetitdone approach? But seriously, don’t you think that “can-do” Yankee pragmatism is an ideology?
I knew that one would’nt slip by!
Perhaps it shouldn’t slip by. Perhaps that’s the ideology we ought to elaborate?
“Laissez-faire capitalism” post-1932 was always just a sick joke. The Reagan administration pretended to like doctrines of “Laissez-faire” while at the same time running up the biggest Keynesian expansion in American history; the two Bushes did about the same thing. The Democrat equivalent of “laissez-faire capitalism” is “fiscal prudence” or “entitlements reform” or, as you have so articulately pointed out, “revenue neutrality.” None of these ideologies are necessary or realistic; they are all propaganda for the revolution of lowered expectations. This is what I mean when I say that the intellectuals can justify anything. “Economics” hides its origins in political economy, and thus the political rationale lurking behind every “economic” explanation.
I very much agree. But since they claimed that Reagan was doing laissez-faire capitalism and that this was continued under the next three Presidents, they can’t very well turn around now, and say, well that really wasn’t laissez-faire capitalism, but if you let us do that now it will clear up all of our problems. Of course, there are people trying that kind of move, but they probably have to wait a few years until memory of the crash of 2008 fades.
Sure, I can see that… there is, however, ecosocialism: see for instance Joel Kovel, The Enemy of Nature, or Saral Sarkar, Eco-Socialism or Eco-Capitalism?
Good Post!
Deficit spending is a problem that is made much worse by people not workind. Just like debts won’t be repaid unless the Country starts making money to pay it off.
So a good answer might be put people to work, and the Country to work, fixing a problem that will save or make money.
Anyone in business will tell you sometimes you have to spend money to make money.
If the Government keeps spending money on things that cost, but have no savings or making of money the deficits and debt will only get worse.
The retards we have in Washington can’t understand that if the spent the money to solve our problems, and to put the people and Country back to work they would make the money to pay things down, and eventually put us back in good fiscal shape.
Being deficit hawks and wanting to save money will only make everything worse.
I know. The funny thing is that people in Washington have been told that often enough, and they have plenty of history to back up the point. Yet they still persist in the old-time religion. It’s not enough to say that they’re bought off by the interests, because many industries don’t benefit from economic downturns. The old-time religion just seems to be something that members of both parties believe in.
Hey Lets! They don’t listen because they think they know it all.
Funny think is we let them get away with that.
Funny thing is, if they know it all, then why have they driven us into the ditch?
I said they think they know it all. Just like they think their shit don’t stink.
Ditch they though that was bitch. and try to get in everyone they can. Most of them are relly good at that.
We have to pay to pump. They get paid to pump. All while thinking they are doing Gods and our work.
My guess is actually Nixon, but for our side.
Our version of the two-faced one?
No, not my angle.
A friend and I have had a long-running conversation of where Obama stands in the cycle of progressive ascendancy, and we’ve been using the metaphor of Nixonland as the basis. So is Obama Goldwater, Nixon, or Reagan, who were pivotal figures in the rise of the modern conservative movement. Right now, we’re on Nixon, or so we think.
I see. Who’s the Goldwater analogue?
Probably Dean. Didn’t get as far along as Goldwater (he wasn’t nominated), but he catalyzed a movement.
The 2 Santa Clause Theory of Wanniski helped Republicans gain power. They cut taxes and spent money. They let the Democrats become the Grinches by raising middle class taxes and cutting entitlement spending. http://www.commondreams.org/view/2009/01/26-0
Are the Rubinites stupid or just unthinking cultists?
Hi mm, Yeah, I remember Wanniski. I think I still have The Way the World Works somewhere. I think the Dems first started getting concerned about the deficit when we elected that nice peanut farmer, who was also a really good technical man. The problem was that he didn’t know much economics and I think Volcker took over his mind. Also, all of the good economists were on Teddy Kennedy’s side, so maybe Carter was reacting to that. Anyway, pretty soon all we heard about in Washington was that he wanted to balance the damned budget and he evidently didn’t care how many people remained unemployed He saw to it that the Humphrey-Hawkins Full Employment Act was purely symbolic and had no teeth, contributed to a down economy by trying to balance the budget and that along with Volcker’s high interest and the Iran fiasco handed the 1980 election to Reagan.
I don’t know if the Rubinites are just unthinking cultists, or simply folks who want to defend their system because it’s fixed to make them money at everyone else’s expense. We have to remember that the system they built has made Rubin and his apostles fabulously wealthy, and they’re still making it off that unregulated financial system. Even if they believe that the system is no good for anyone else, it must be hard for them to give it or work to reform it knowing that their own gravy train would have a lot less gravy.
Yes, that’s what I meant by the Rubinites being unthinking cultists. Maybe it’s better to just call them stubborn or perhaps amoral. I heard that Rubin was still pondering what his role in all this was. He still refuses to see any culpability. I believe another name for that is sociopath. I see an awful lot of sociopathy in Washington. One has only to look into the darting yet dead eyes of Summers and Geithner or the cold eyes with the plastered on smile of Christina Romer to shudder and remember those bureaucrats in the last century who devised all kinds of ways to get rid of their excess populations.
Christie Romer drives me a bit crazy with her perpetual smile during the delivery of bad news. I think in another Administration she’d be doing much better, but I think she’s an apparatchik who takes on the coloration of her surroundings.
At least Greenspan owned up. In that congressional hearing he looked and sounded like a broken man. Rubin? Forget it. Some never concede.
Hi lets
Good food for thought. Have you read the article in Harpers from last Summer about this
http://www.harpers.org/archive/2009/07/0082562?redirect=1982284879
MM wrote diary on it, maybe she can give the link
L8r
Thank you John, I had not read it, but I wish I had written it, it’s a great one and very prophetic of what we’ve seen since and are seeing now.
One seeming contradiction in your thesis: Obama apparently recognizes the independence of government spending and deficits when it comes to financing his war in Afghanistan. Thus, there is more to it than you suggest. He simply does not think that job creation and health care for the citizenry is as important as feeding the military-industrial complex. The well is somewhat more poisoned than you entertain in your piece, but nevertheless an interesting study of the Zeitgeist of our bipartisan poltical system of corporate corruption and its general principle of robbing from the poor to give to the rich. Why? Because the rich are simply more important.
Hi CB, Thanks for pointing that out, but even though the Afghan War has until now been funded without concern for deficit neutrality, Democrats have been raising those concerns and Barack Obama has been making noises as though, he too believed that we needed to being paying for the War rather than financing it through deficits.
Of course, if the Democrats go through with this they will put even more pressure on the possibilities of reform, because they will feel even more constrained to fund every reform program through new taxes, which unless the taxation involved is highly progressive, is sure to have a depressing effect on the economy. Even then it may have a depressive effect.
Lgid,
I must say, that was a great piece and, of course, if I had my choice about whose puss should be on Mt Rushmore it would be FDR, hands down. So, the test of just how much in the tank the Dems are for the corporations comes down to whether they fund the current supplemental through a tax increase in your book? I heard one of my illustrious congressman, John Spratt, saying that a recession is not an appropriate time to raise taxes. What makes you think the Dems have the cajones to raise taxes? Remember, Obama treated the banksters pretty good too and we have seen just how two-tiered our justice system has remained under Obama, what with his disinterest in trying war crimes and violations of the constitution. Fiscal hawking is reserved only for government programs that deal with social safety nets and wealth redistribution. If you are part of the military-industrial complex there is no problem in spending 700 billion a year. It would be of interest to know how many Dems actually respond the way you suggest, and I do believe that some do, and how many really just use balanced budget arguments selectively to advance their political survivability. I would guess that LIEberman would be in that latter category and most Blue Dogs. But you know what? I think a lot of progressives respond in this way as well.
cb,
No, I’m not saying they should fund it with a tax increase. I’d rather see them get over the tax increase thing for the moment. What we need is deficit financing until we get out of the recession, then they need to raise taxes quickly to avoid inflation. But, generally the progressivity of the tax system needs to be restored to flatten the wealth pyramid once again. the distribution of wealth is far too concentrated in afew hands now. It’s very dangerous for the maintenance of democracy.
Yes, you are correct that we need to restore our democracy through progressive income taxation and other strategies to redistribute wealth. However, your thesis is that the Democratic establishment has been brain washed over the years to the point where they reflexively reject such programs because they have bought into deficit hawking. My thesis is that they are much more corrupted than that and use deficit hawking as a pretext to selectively deny income leveling programs, but have no problem with ignoring such concerns when issues benefiting their corporate benfactors arise. And each one has different benefactors and that is when things can get dicey in politics, that’s when you have some potential for change. But by the end of the process they have all been sufficiently compensated to dutifully pass the legislation that the lobbyists have written up for them. The Democratic establishment needs to be replaced, not awakened.
I think there’s a lot of what you say involved when we talk about Lincoln, Ben Nelson, Evan Bayh, Landrieu, Lieberman, etc. There we’re talking about corruption, and use of deficit hawkism as an excuse. But when we move to Russ Feingold, Claire McCaskill, Amy Klobuchar, Jon Tester, and perhaps 5 – 10 others, I don’t think it’s an excuse. They’ve bought off on the deficit neutrality BS and might be persuaded that they’re wrong.
“What we need is deficit financing until we get out of the recession, then they need to raise taxes quickly to avoid inflation. But, generally the progressivity of the tax system needs to be restored to flatten the wealth pyramid once again. the distribution of wealth is far too concentrated in afew hands now. It’s very dangerous for the maintenance of democracy.”
I’m glad you said this Let’s, because you saved me a LOT of typing.
As a natural saver, I am paranoid about inflation.
It comes down to degree. The degree (amount) of deficit spending in relation to the degree (severity) of national emergency. They are roughly proportional.
Outside of an emergency it comes down to a cost-benefit analysis to society on the expenditure of funds and can often be seen as a simple “investment” issue. Public monies (deficit or otherwise) in education, technology, infrastructure, medicine or what have you can come back in the form of worthwhile intangibles or as jobs which produce taxes and a blacker balance sheet.
Re our discussion of Nader the other day; although he is on record as favoring a balanced budget, or “deficit-neutrality,” I doubt that Ralph would seriously argue the merits of what we are saying here. He is all about taking care of people and economic justice. I just don’t believe he would sacrifice millions of jobs and people on the altar of a Hoover-esque devotion to deficit hawk-ism. Not in practice. But then we’ll never get to know, will we?
Guys like him and Dennis are’nt allowed past the 2nd primary. Guys like Barack Obama are.
I understand the concern about inflation, but there’s no danger of inflation in a time of slack demand unless it’s driven by demand bubbles for commodity products in short supply like oil in the 1970s. Under preset conditions, we’d have to approach full employment before we saw inflation. Anyway the same theory that tells us we can print money also tells us that when theres too much of it we have to take it out of circulation by taxing it if we want to avoid inflation.
I just finished Ellen Brown’s “Web of Debt” and there’s a lot of evidence that the elites use “inflation” to scare us. Volker certainly used it starting in 1979 when he imposed shock therapy in the form of high interest rates. Inflation was actually good for working people because their homes were worth more. Unfortunately their wages weren’t keeping up with the rise in prices. Also, inflation could be caused by speculators taking down national currencies like they did in the Weimar Republic.
Keynes said that if the government issued its own currency and used the funds to put everybody to work…full employment, “the GDP would increase by the value of newly-made goods and services, keeping supply and demand in balance.”
God, I can’t stand Volcker. He’s partly responsible for Reagan winning in 1980, and for the BS we’ve had to endure ever since. Carter was a fool for appointing him, and deservedly lost the presidency because he did.
The inflation of the 70s was kicked off by the oil shocks and then was exacerbated by the Fed’s own actions in raising interest rates which then forced prices up before finally killing demand and leading to recession.
loosely, conjecturally the range of actions available to even a determined President are constrained by vastly inertial, pre-existing relationships between the State, Oligarchic factions (lumping them all together, Wall Street, the MIC, the corporate elites) and American Society as a whole (lumping together unions, city halls, state capitals, general social health, resilience, etc)
(Political Parties, back in FDR’s time, would be lumped in my big Society sack, but now, unfortunately, they are clearly creatures of the State and the oligarchic interests, retaining vestigial ties to the wider Society…)
the balance of power, and degree of interpenetration, between these sectors, as well as the relative power vis a vis American society as a whole, was rather different in FDR’s time . . . plus FDR had great reserves of character, which the current President lacks, or we would have known by now.
Not excusing Obama’s vastly different responses to the crisis of Wall Street and Main Street – he is a willing and eager servant of his largest campaign donors – but it is simply not in the nature of the State, and its oligarchic conjoined twin, currently, to trickle anything down, and deficit hawkism is just the preferred public rationale for this.
“Power concedes nothing without a demand” as the old saying goes, my emphasis.
so, yes, government spending on a massive jobs program, repairing existing infrastructure and oh, I don’t know, laying the basis for new, sustainable energy system because we know oil will not last forever, these would be hugely beneficial to non-millionaire Americans, and those directly employed would diffuse their money out into the businesses of their communities, creating a positive feedback loop that reduces unemployment and alleviates poverty and gives regular folks reason to hope again, but the animals fur does not grow that way and it does not like having its fur rubbed backwards.
So, of course we agree, Lets, that you have lanced the deficit hawks arguments, but I think the arguments arise from a deeper tendency or orientation, within the big cat, and even if you shave off lots of fur, it will regrow pointing the same direction . . .
[ach, what a tormented metaphor! sorry, I'm just going to drop it right now...]
spork, I tend to agree, but we have to remember also that the elites were pretty powerful in 1932 also and that Roosevelt ran on a balanced budget platform. One reason why things changed is that the moves Roosevelt made worked against, rather than in favor of the established power structure. He was clever enough to calculate the political consequences of what he was doing from the viewpoint of how that would constrain or facilitate his actions later.
Obama, on the other hand, literally has followed a path that increasingly constrains his freedom of action. Had he taken the big banks into receivership and put academics like Elizabeth Warren in charge of them, he would have greatly reduced the power of Wall Street early on. He would not then have faced the effects of Wall Street’s political power during the stimulus, credit card reform, and foreclosure cram-down fights, or now, in the financial regulation fight.
Had he approached the stimulus from the viewpoint of getting a much larger one through including large scale infrastructure repair by means of the nuclear option, if necessary, he might have gotten both a much larger and more effective stimulus and also the end of the filibuster. Then when he moved to health care he would have been much stronger.
A real victory on the stimulus, taking the banks into receivership, and severely constraining the credit card and mortgage companies implementing foreclosures would have been great for his image. He would now be viewed as the Main Street President, not the Wall Street President. People would have the impression that he cared about them and not the rich folks. Unemployment by this time would be clearly on the way down, and the future would look much brighter. His polls would have been 10 – 15 points higher in July and through the present period.
If, when he had engaged on health care he had gone for Medicare for All and thrown his support behind Conyers and Kucinich, the insurance companies would have screamed like the proverbial stuck pigs — which would only have confirmed for people whose side he was on. With the filibuster gone, all he would have needed was majority votes to pass HR 676 or a similar bill in both Houses. Medicare for All is easy to explain and would have been an easy sell for him because their would have been congruence between his statement of the problem and the proposed solution. The gap between the rhetoric about the problem and the importance of doing something about it on the one hand, and the puny ambiguous “solution” of the sort we see now would never have existed.
When he hit opposition from the insurance companies and the blue dogs he could have made major addresses and called for public support. He could have pointed out that he was the people’s President, that he had defended them by ending the bank bailouts and taking over the banks instead, and by constraining the credit card companies and the mortgage holders. That he had gotten lending going, that his enormous stimulus package was in the process of producing 6 million jobs and re-inventing the economy and that he now needed their support to put another leg of his economic program together, a leg that according to the California Nurses Association would produce a net of an additional 2 million jobs for the American people, and that would lift the burden of deaths, bankruptcies, and foreclosures due to lack of insurance forever. By now that insurance reform would be passed and we’d be looking at implementation by the end of 2011.
With these victories behind him, Obama would have done much to reshape the power structure in Washington, with Wall Street much weakened and the insurance companies about to be put out of our misery, Obama wouldn’t have to worry very much about huge contributions from these sources going into Republican coffers. Even more, with those forces greatly weakened, the future would now be much more of an open possibility with respect to re-inventing the economy around alternative energy sources, environmental and climate change legislation, reducing the role of money in politics, and beginning to work on real health care reform and not just health insurance reform.
Of course, even if Obama had done all this, reform would still be threatened by his recent decision on the Afghan Wars have killed reform periods in American History under Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, and Lyndon Johnson. The wars will continue to be a drain on our economy and our international standing, with Obama unwilling to take a gamble on just getting out, he has instead subjected himself to further risk of failure on the domestic front too. I’m afraid he is caught in a web. Part of it was left by Bush. But by now another part of it is clearly of his own making.
What was that Hemingway line in a letter rueing a love ended too soon? “We could have had something really special. At least, it’s nice to think so.”
thanks for the long reply – just dropping back in here for a minute.
sorry if the following is hasty, vague, and unsourced, but here is what I think:
it is true there was quite the oligarchy in the 1930′s, but ironically robber-baron capitalism, and the great legacy fortunes like the Carnegie’s and so on were of a different character to todays corporate elite, and the robber barons had legacy memories of the time when the State and the People were more worthy foes, or counterweights, rather than the enfeebled dissipated and co-opted sectors they are now.
more a fair match for someone like FDR, who was thinking long-term – he served 4 of them, after all.
not to nitpick, but I think we are late stage Versailles here, and the King cares not a whit how the peasants view him.
and, only one side is placing real demands on him, and this is the side that forms the entire structure of his Party, his advisers, his fundraisers, the entire constellation he has around him comes from, and is essentially native to, the tiny elite stratum that owns almost everything here.
there is simply no counterweight imposing demands for the reforms you mention – the whole Public Option rigamarole was illustrative of what ‘progressive’ demand making is in this day and age.
and in the new spirit of “well, whattaya gonna do about it?” I’ll propose that we ground-level subjects simply and most obviously withdraw all support from the electoral faction that is obviously inimical to our interests, and go about creating new formations, resistant to corruption. Discussions of this are bubbling up everywhere – there is time to induce a sea change by 2012.
Hi spork, I’m not sure whether it’s better to do a new Party or to the recapture the Democratic Party; but I think we certainly need to try. Whether there’s time to do it by 2012, I don’t know. It will take some seed money also. I don’t know where that will come from.
Spork, I was going to say . . .”the Good Ship Metaphor sets sail again!” Good stuff in any case, though.
Thank You John! My diary on Kevin Baker’s Barack Hoover Obama and it’s take on Max Baucus and other “Aged Satraps from Vast and Windy Places” The crux of that particular piece was the Hooveresque way of running things. Hoover turned out in this article to be a very Good Samaritan who saved Christian Chinese in the Boxer Rebellion, got food to starving Belgiums during WW I, and helped flood victims in Mississippi and Louisiana. But he would not and could not let go of the firm belief in the financial status quo. He proceeded to try and “manage” the problem. I saw this in Max Baucus uninterest in what other Senators or Congress people were doing vis a vis health care. He didn’t even know about Bernie Sanders bill or the bills in the House.
Roosevelt, on the other hand, relished a fight and enjoyed standing things on its head. It didn’t hurt that he had Frances Perkins at his side. She was the last cabinet member to leave the meetings. Today, Geithner and Gates get to leave last.
mm, what a difference that is. Today, Elizabeth Warren should be the last one leaving the Cabinet meetings. Unfortunately, she’s not even in the Cabinet.
I’m glad you mentioned all those things about Hoover. I had a history teacher (pretty Progressive) who described Hoover as possibly the highest qualified man ever elected President – except for THAT moment in history. In which case he may have been the worst.
Lets and commenters, a great read. Thank you.
FDR! So much talk of FDR in the Obama early days. Sigh. So much romanticized projection about Obama, with his “brand’s” encouragement.
Glass Steagal should be back in place by this time. The fact that it is not shows the profound amorality and incompetence and corruption of both Congress and Obama. The same with habeas corpus.
Accountability, serious accountability should be happening. FBI, etc., being used for the GWOT homeland security, and not taking care of the welfare of the citizenry.
Obama has put his own political security above all imho … and this is a tragedy. Is he simply a beholding hack who is puppet to the power and control addict big boys, or is he cravenly ambitious and amoral re the state of the citizenry as well as the world?
It makes me crazy that 45,000 preventable deaths per year from inadequate health care was not made into a serious issue by our reps and our media. incredible. I am glad Grayson did… but for God’s sake. And that report came out recently. 22,000 was the original estimate and that was already horrifying.
It seems Obama, Clinton were and are incapable of conscience when it comes to enabling the corporatists! Clinton rode the bubble, didn’t he?
Both Clinton and Obama can talk the talk when they want, from one side of their mouths.
And an A.D.D. corporate media that has no sense of morality and justice. Everything is a big game … always about the gamesmanship, not the morality of a situation. Playing gotcha and schadenfreude.
Thanks lib.
Perhaps he has. But it is very debatable that he has safeguarded his political security by the course he has taken. I think he would have been much more secure now, if he had taken down the banks and Wall Street and were now on the point of defeating the insurance companies by passing Medicare for All. A few more readings of Machiavelli, along with James MacGregor Burns’ Roosevelt: The Lion and the Fox might have benefited him and the supposedly clever Rahm substantially.
Bingo.
Nothing impresses the electorate more than competence, but only if it is a feature, and not a bug.
Nice one.
Just for fun I looked it up. I wrote a diary:
http://seminal.firedoglake.com/diary/4443
on March 26, 2009 comparing Obama to Hoover. What it comes down to is having the wrong President for the crises we are facing.
Thanks Hugh. Your diary is certainly consistent with events since. We elected the wrong president for the times.
hey lets.
i got a lot of surprise gratitude from jane on her rollercoaster public option thread the other day. i appreciated that. i had helped out when she solicited help one day on a “single payer project”. I did some research for her — for single payer candidates — on the net and emailed it to her.
i had so hoped there would be a union of single payer and public option folks on FDL, and did not realize it would have such emotionalism. But it is an important union. And I am so grateful and we will all take it one day and one thread at a time, i guess.
I hope sisterkenney comes back. I was just getting acquainted and loved her spirit and shares.
I am grateful there is the attention to single payer and support for single payer candidates. I remember tasini on the salon a while back and had considered working for him. now that i am so very very very very (do I have enough veries?) disappointed with Obama I am all the more eager to help him out.
I feel annoyed with myself. Apparently Bernie Sanders offered up his amendment Friday. I want to go to pnhp and maybe do at least a short diary on it. I think Sherrod Brown bless him cosponsored it. And another article I found absolutely blasting the new bill. Apparently they are savaging Medicare!!!! What is the buzz out there on dealing with the bill? Killing it. I have been making calls to Senate asking to kill it unless it has Bernie’s amendment and also demanding we withdraw from Afghanistan.
Was it R-Senator Coburn that decided that all members of Congress should embrace the public option. He did it as a stall and provocative tactic to upset every Dem. I don’t know if you caught one of my comments on Jane’s thread on po but I loved the idea of citizens demanding that Congress actually do that. Give up their Rolls Royce plan and have to take public option for themselves and their families.
Sherrod Brown called Coburn’s bluff. He did what Wiener did with the Medicare threat. Wonder if it is not too late other than private calls I make to voice mails to Congress to encourage that as a drumbeat? I think Sherrod Brown is one of two that gave up the luxury plan. He is emerging as another good guy. God, we need them so badly. Gotta cover their backs!
This week I have been pushing my feedback about the health care mess more on friends and coworkers. Clearly, it is a tough sell, and I may be offputting with my earnestness but I realize I need to start sharing with the non-choir. I read an article on information clearing house about how morale in America is so low, that causes the apathy happening about leadership sell out. Denial better than facing down the betrayal maybe.
okay… blathered enough. gonna rally and read up on Bernie’s amendment.
take care, my friend.
Thanks libby. I was very glad to see the progress made by Jane with help from selise and yourself. It’s great to see FDL start backing Medicare for All, at least a bit. I caught the Tasini thread very late last night. I didn’t make a reply to it, but I was very impressed with Tasini’s words and his seeming very straightforward attitude. I’d really like to see him in the Seante and will do what I can to help. Bonnie and I contributed on Friday night and we will keep doing so as time passes.
I agree that Sherrod Brown is emerging as one of the good guys, but I also think that some progressive Senator, Bernie, Brown, Leahy, or someone else, needs to have the guts to tie the Senate in knots on Afghanistan and health care and force Harry Reid to get rid of the filibuster. I’ve been writing about that for a long time, and as you know Jon Walker has recently been emphasizing getting rid of the filibuster very heavily, and Jane seems now to have unequivocally joined up on getting rid of it.
I did catch your comment on Congresspeople taking the same plan as others. That point is brought up a lot by the media. The critter usually responds by saying that they have no special plan, just the one every other Federal Employee has. Then one has to go back and explain that yes, that’s true but they have greater subsidies from the Government than ordinary Federal Workers. In that case, the individual would probably answer, that he or she doesn’t know whether that is true, but that they would have to investigate it and get back.
In other words, the point involved gets rapidly watered down in detail. If you avoid this by suggesting that the federal plan be extended to all Americans with the same subsidies as Congress gets, then the critter can say that he or she is for that, but that it’s not a practical alternative right now, and that it has no public option, so that it’s cost control meachism is defective.
What I’m saying is that I think the point of demanding equal treatment for everyone sounds good on the surface, but I think it’s a distraction from Medicare for All, from Everybody In, Nobody Out!
I think we need to just to focus our message on that, the benefits it would produce for everyone and the annual expenditures it would save. I think we need to tie the savings down with a rigorous analysis and then hammer on the irresponsibility of Congress in passing a plan that will hardly make a dent in costs while ignoring one that will save between 800B and One Trillion per year, if my earlier and imperfect estimates on this are in the right range.
Libby, it’s always great to see your comments and your commitment to social justice. You have a great day, and I will too, because I’m going to a birthday Party for my 4 year old granddaughter, Abigail.
lets, i am sure the party was wonderful! :) good for you. we need those light moments. i can sometimes get in a tailspin re politics. Good to an extent.
yes, I am sure the king and queens of spin in congress will talk a good game. good point. I have to find out who the other person is who nobly rejected the Rolls Royce health care in the senate. Will get back to you when I find out. I hate it when I forget those details that seemed locked in. :)
Me too.
Beautiful post again, Joe. It seems to me that there are no more great Statesmen. They just disappeared, became extinct, ……another species that has gone and vanished. Show me a great Statesman left in this world !
Hi Henk, Thanks, glad you liked this one. My posts on this subject, don’t seem to get the same play as the ones on health care, even though I think that in the end they may be more important.
I agree about our lack of statesmen/women. The number of pygmies we have is incredible. FWIW, I have a good impression of the Australian PM, Kevin Rudd, but I doubt he’ll reach the stature of some of the great ones of the past.
My posts on this subject, don’t seem to get the same play as the ones on health care, even though I think that in the end they may be more important.
yep, very important. i read them carefully and pay close attention to the comments, but i’m totally in ‘take information in’ mode on these posts and have very little to say.