Here are nine reasons the Senate health care reform bill should be killed:
1) The bill gives almost no real help ’til 2014. In the short term, the bill does nothing about the fatalities, bankruptcies, and foreclosures that come from lack of insurance. Therefore, the very title of the bill — "The Affordable Health Choices Act" –is a lie, despite band-aids for children and young adults, because the bill doesn’t get people care in the short run at an affordable price that will protect them from financial ruin.
2) The bill guarantees price-gouging through 2014. The bill doesn’t address the problem of insurance company rate increases from 2010 ’til 2014. Based on how the insurance companies have always behaved, we will see insurance premium increases from 50-75% in that time frame. That will increase the average annual cost of family coverage from the current $13,375 to $20,000-24,000.
3) The bill sells out women’s reproductive choices. This is not something progressives should ever agree to, since it is a core principle of progressivism.
4) The bill forces people to buy a defective product. After 2014, the bill forces people to buy junk insurance they can’t afford from private insurers. The subsidies don’t do anything about high out-of-pocket costs, which will be great enough to drive middle class people into bankruptcies and foreclosure, especially since lifetime caps are still permitted. Further, the subsidies are not high enough to make insurance affordable except in the judgment of millionaire legislators who have no understanding of middle class family budgets. Worse, there are no enforcement mechanisms for the few regulatory changes that are made. (Note 2) And since the bill frames health insurance as a means-tested subsidy — that is, as welfare — the already inadequate subsidies will be under constant assault by conservatives (both D and R). (Note 1) And all that’s before the insurance companies figure out new ways to game the system.
5) The bill will not cover 30 million additional people, as the access bloggers and career liberals keep repeating. The subsidies are not indexed to rising insurance costs, and therefore insurance even with subsidies will become increasingly unaffordable. In my view, it’s doubtful that more than 15 million will be covered. Since US population will be increasing over time, we can expect the total number of uninsured to grow over time, so even after 2014 and taking into account the 15 million additional people covered, we will still be looking at 35 million uncovered, and 35,000 fatalities per year due to lack of insurance.
6) The mandate cannot be enforced. The IRS isn’t really a very effective collector. It collects only a very small percentage of debts each year now. If there is widespread non-compliance with the mandates, the IRS won’t be able to enforce them. In one way that’s good. However, the IRS presence will be a constant irritant to people, and in addition, widespread non-compliance will increase the widespread disrespect and cynicism we already see with respect to our laws and their enforcement. Moreover, such enforcement as there will be cannot be done fairly or consistently.
7) The bill does not decrease the share of GDP being spent on health care. It’s now about 17.5%. If GDP averages 3% growth over the next four years, which may not be the case if we have a double-dip recession, we’re looking at health care costs outrunning GDP growth by probably about 7% per year. By 2014, health care expenditures could be about 22-23% of our economy, while other nations are still at 12% or so. This will make the US even more uncompetitive in international markets than we already are.
8) The bill facilitates the march of the American political system away from Democracy and toward Plutocracy. By failing to curb rising premium costs in the period up to 2014, the bill adds further to the income insurance companies can use to block further health care reform. So, it hurts the sustainability of health care reform and it’s ability to gain strength over time. This highlights another progressive core principle violated by the bill. Every bill must be evaluated in terms of its political effect on democracy, and whether or not it facilitates the evolution of American democracy toward Plutocracy. Bills, like this one, whose effects will be to weaken rather than strengthen the sustainability of democracy, ought to be opposed in principle by progressives.
9) The political FAILout will kill real reform. In the short run, the bill makes it much more difficult to pursue real solutions to health care reform, because the elites and their enablers will whine about how hard they worked to pass this bill, and about how everyone should just wait until 2014 to see how things work out. In the longer run, the inflation in premium costs, the waiting period of four years while costs increase, and the actual experience of the system beginning in 2014, will all persuade people that it’s useless to expect Government to help people with their problems. This bill is potentially a killer for progressive politics, if we let the Administration push us into the obvious wait-and-see posture that they expect from us.
In summary, we need to work as hard as we can to defeat this bill, and if we can’t convince any Senators to kill it, then we have to come out of the box in January breathing fire about how bad it is, and how much it needs to be repealed before the elections of 2010, and replaced with enhanced Medicare for All.
NOTE 1: That is, the appropriate precedent for incremental change is not SS, as "progressives" keep telling us, but AFDC.
NOTE 2: The talking point that the bill will mandate that 85% of premiums be spent on actual health services means nothing unless there is enforcement, which there isn’t. I’m guessing that the likelihood of the insurance companies opening their books to the Fed is the same as the banksters doing so: A big fat zero.
(This post began as a comment ona post by khin, was revised by lambert to sharpen up some of its points at correntewire, and was revised again by me for this posting. So, it’s a serial collaboration.
(Also posted at the Alllifeisproblemsolving blog and Correntewire.com where there may be more comments)



55 Comments







thanks lets (and khin and lambert). what a mess.
recommended.
Thank you selise. I’ve been missing your comments the past few days. Hope you’re OK.
An excellent analysis: thank you.
Thanks Grumpy. Have you seen that news item out of Australia about a scientific study that says Grumpy people are healthier?
Reason 8 is fleshed out cogently by Glenn Greenwald over at Salon. This HCR fight is much, much more than simply trying to provide adequate health care to the population, it represents one of our last chances to confront the machine. That’s the top reason in my book that we should kill the bill, it would land at least a glancing blow to the plutocracy.
I think it would be more than a glancing blow. It would show the Democrats that they can beat the plutocrats and would encorage much more effective resistance. If we could somehow win this fight, it would the beginning of the end for the emerging plutocracy.
Lgid,
We are in much deeper to the corporations than you seem to think. Shooting the bill down would be a start. But, you must remember, the Dems are already happily controled by the corporations. Those that we characterize as progressives in congress are those that are only captured in part by the corporations (like Jello is captured by the communications industry, etc.) We’ve got a long hard slog ahead of us. But, after listening to Sanders abd Harkin tonight, I would say we are going to get the Health Care Bill the corporations want. Our next nightmare will be the cave ball coming from the house progressives.
cb, you may be right. I do expect the House progressives to cave. They already caved to Pelosi. Why not to the Senate?
Did you see Maxine Waters on Countdown tonight? She was sounding a whole lot like Sanders several days ago. I think the defeat we will have to have to wrench the lobbyists away from Dems is a sound thrashing in 2010. Then maybe we can help pick up the pieces and perhaps have an opportunity to infuse true liberals into the party structure. A hard rain is gonna fall, for all of us. Maybe we score an ultimate victory if we can rise out of the ashes.
I saw here. But she folded the first time around, why not now? I agree the Democrats might have to take a big defeat. Let’s hope that defeat is restricted to blue dogs.
lets and I talked about this over in his last post, and he said it was a valid tenth reason even if not something that was too important to state explicitly. But I think it’s extremely important to state, and is actually my biggest reason, so here’s reason #10…
10. We can probably pass a bill in the Senate via reconciliation. Obama and Reid have just spent six months negotiating a health care bill and so they almost certainly feel that not passing anything at this point would be a political disaster. Therefore, they very likely will cave in and pursue reconciliation if forced to do so. Although as Nate Silver has pointed out, it is quite possible that senators like Nelson and Lieberman would vote against any non-reconciliation follow-up containing other provisions, these also happen to be the most flawed provisions of this bill, so no one should be shedding any tears if we wait on them. This would be the best of both worlds: we pass provisions like the Medicaid expansion and Medicare buy-in now, avoid passing the most flawed provisions, and the Democrats also avoid a worst-case political scenario.
I agree with khin, and gladly accept this as reason number 10.
I’m new posting here but I’ll just say this. First, thanks for your excellent post which educated me in a couple of ways. The first point for me that stands on its own as justification for opposing HCR is your #3.
I left the Democratic Party shortly after I joined as an 18 year old because of the Dems’ hypocrisy, and time has only heaped justifications on that decision. No registered Dem who also self-identifies and more importantly purports to act as a progressive can remain a Dem after this fiasco, regardless of whether it passes. Even the Sunday Socialist Bernie Sanders is willing to throw women under the bus for the benefit of some perks for his state in the HCR bill (here’s another argument against the bill, namely how unbalanced it is with regard to concessions to individual states). And while Russ Feingold continues to rant and wail about the loss of the public option, he, too, will be voting YEA for the bill and thus for killing women, killing the poor, killing the not yet poor and for enriching the rich. This bill is all that deserves killing. (Reconciliation along the lines of the above suggestion is a good idea, but I have a notion we won’t get that because it would violate the Plutocratic agenda here.)
kudos, redwein. “Progressive” Democrats need mazelike psychological fortifications to prevent the cognitive dissonance from storming the keep.
Lets, point 4 will be a gargoyle, an absolute humdinger for Repubs to stoke the anger of folks forced to pay for a bad deal.
Who is going to stand up and defend the Democrats against this justified rage? Jason Rosenbaum? Markos?
Good luck with that, their credibility will just go >poof!< assuming they have any left.
And while it is encouraging that the IRS will not have seamless enforcement, I am concerned that those who voluntarily manage to remain uninsured will be punished in other ways, and be barred from the system even for life threatening emergencies . . . we’ll have to be on the lookout for this.
Right you are, spork. But there’s one good thing about this bill, and that is that it is so terrible that it can serve as the focus of a movement to get real reform instead of a corrupt giveaway to the insurance companies. It can serve as a negative focus for progressive action and for the Medicare for All movement to organize against. We’ve got to immediately start complaining that middle class people can’t afford the risk pools that are supposed to give the ones denied coverage insurance until 2014. We can organize those people and get them bothering their representatives and demanding subsidies so they can afford the insurance. We can start demanding legislation to control increases in insurance premiums so that they can’t exceed the general rate of inflation. We can also demand that the mandates be removed. We have four years to build a movement to get rid of the mandates. And, of course, we can start asking our politicians why the rchest nation in the world can’t afford Medicare for All for its citizens. Why is it that Canada can do it, Australia can do it, New Zealand can do it. France can do it, and the UK can do it, but America can’t. What’s wrong with our represntatives that they can’t get us that. Why are they so incompetent that they can’t pass a Medicare for All plan?
@ letsgetitdone: I applaud and support your comments. Progressives generally do better fighting “against” rather than “for.”
Dangerously precedent-setting flaws in this health bill should give powerful incentives to rally and organize.
Will we meet the challenge?
Progressives need leverage. What’s the fastest way to get the most leverage?
We should “hold the mandate hostage” until (1) anti-trust exemptions for the insurance industry are repealed; and (2) more equitable and effective subsidies are legislated (so that the mandate is mutual, rather than overly burdensome to consumers and overly lightweight for insurers and government).
Anyway. Wanted to say I really liked your comments.
Thanks Jon Walker has also been saying that we should hold the mandates hostage, and I’ve been saying that in one form or another for months. It’s a simple principle. Don’t give the opposition what they need until you get everything you need. The insurance companies need the mandates to keep Wall Street happy, so we really had a lever there. But the idiots are refusing to use it.
Thanks redwein. I too doubt that we can get reconciliation, but we can and must call for the defeat of this bill, and for the use of reconciliation to get a better one.
but but but John Harwood thinks we’re stoned and idiotic!
HARWOOD: So much of the commentary that I’ve heard has been really idiotic. Liberals who want universal health care ought to be thanking Harry Reid for getting this done rather than talking about what’s inadequate in the bill. I’m not saying the bill is a good bill. But if you’re a liberal and you want universal coverage in this country, and think that you can do better, that Harry Reid can do better than he’s done that the White House can do better, they ought to lay off the hallucinogenic drugs because we’ve had a vivid demonstration of the limits of political possibilities on this issue.
@atonemusic: You’re SO very right that “we’ve had a vivid demonstration of the limits of political possibilities on this issue.”
While I don’t buy claims that our only alternative to accepting the Senate bill was to get “nothing,” it’s clear that the will to “fight on” simply didn’t exist.
I absolutely don’t buy claims that we had to pass this bill by Xmas or wait 20 years.
A third option would have been to exhaust all tactical measures and use all legislative tools (such as reconciliation) FIRST, before leaping to ram through a flawed bill that’s not due to become effective until 2014.
Senate Dems could have come back after the holidays and exercised some of their unexercised clout. They chose to “abort” rather than “retry.” I strongly suspect Obama said “do it, or else!” The President convinced them that it was the best way to keep the Democrats “in power.”
There were undoubtedly a few senators who would gladly have returned on January 2, 2010 to fight harder and longer and smarter. They were vastly outnumbered.
Most Dems felt compelled to give Obama his Christmas “win” ― and to get the hell off the Senate floor for the holidays. This is typical American short-term thinking ― much like running a corporation according to demands for upbeat quarterly reports, rather than engaging in sound practices for sustainable profitability over the long term.
So. Given the reality that the Senate bill is about to go into conference and be “merged” with the House bill (although I suspect that it will emerge untouched by House influence), I think it’s time to stop saying “kill the bill” and start organizing a powerful plan to ensure that this bill gets “fixed,” and doesn’t fade from Congressional view.
I agree, but remind you that even three progressives could have forced reconcilation.
@ letsgetitdone: I didn’t realize that it would take only 3 senators to force reconciliation.
Knowing that, I would say that President Obama must have done some pretty scary stuff in dark back rooms to cause 60 Democratic senators to run from the fight, en masse, with their tails between their legs.
I say three because the Administration might have been able to buy off the ladies from Maine if they needed to. Actually, if the Republicans had held firm, ony one Senator could have forced Reid into invoking reconciliation if they wanted a bill.
That’s nonsense. Reid didn’t use reconciliation. he and Obama are to blame for that. We’re going to try to get rid of Reid in 2010.
I really do hope you can kill this bill. But the more likely outcome is that DC passes this bill, and the voters rise up with one voice and proclaim, “liberals are useless.”
Like I said, I really do hope you can kill this bill.
Hi cassiodorus. That’s what it looks like. But if they fold we’ll be back at their throats next year.
@atonemusic: You’re SO very right that “we’ve had a vivid demonstration of the limits of political possibilities on this issue.”
While I don’t buy claims that our only alternative to accepting the Senate bill was to get “nothing,” it’s clear that the will to “fight on” simply didn’t exist.
I absolutely don’t buy claims that we had to pass this bill by Xmas or wait 20 years.
A third option would have been to exhaust all tactical measures and use all legislative tools (such as reconciliation) FIRST, before leaping to ram through a flawed bill that’s not due to become effective until 2014.
Senate Dems could have come back after the holidays and exercised some of their unexercised clout. They chose to “abort” rather than “retry.” I strongly suspect Obama said “do it, or else!” The President convinced them that it was the best way to keep the Democrats “in power.”
There were undoubtedly a few senators who would gladly have returned on January 2, 2010 to fight harder and longer and smarter. They were vastly outnumbered.
Most Dems felt compelled to give Obama his Christmas “win” ― and to get the hell off the Senate floor for the holidays. This is typical American short-term thinking ― much like running a corporation according to demands for upbeat quarterly reports, rather than engaging in sound practices for sustainable profitability over the long term.
So. Given the reality that the Senate bill is about to go into conference and be “merged” with the House bill (though I suspect it will emerge untouched by House influence), it’s time to stop saying “kill the bill” and start organizing a powerful plan to ensure that this bill gets “fixed,” and doesn’t fade from Congressional view.
@letsgetitdone: Frankly, I was surprised at how abruptly Senator Bernie Sanders buckled.
I was recently looking at Nate Silver’s site to try to understand his position a bit more.
Silver’s position is that passing the bill without provisions like guaranteed issue would be “worse policy” than passing a smaller, leaner bill containing only provisions like a Medicaid expansion, a Medicare buy-in, etc. I think that is probably the case if you compare it with getting nothing passed later, but if the more flawed provisions were deliberately left out of the bill, there would seem to be an increased chance of returning to it in future years. But then, you could argue that we can come back anyway. It all depends on your conception of how “final” the provisions in this bill are likely to be. I am leaning toward removing the flawed insurance-related provisions for another day if necessary, and think on the face of it that Silver’s dismissal of this option seems reflexive. I’ve called my two senators and (doubtless in vain) asked them to vote against this bill specifically to move it into reconciliation.
This will be the last post of mine about affecting passage of this bill, however, because I think more important issues are how “we,” meaning would-be progressives who have heavily bought into the flawed organizations that brought us to this position, can reorient ourselves to prevent further failures.
HCAN, Moveon, Daily Kos, Bowers, Dean, Kirsch out.
PDA, Healthcare-NOW, Corrente, ZBlogs, Weiner, Himmelstein in.
khin, I agree that we need new organizations and quickly. On Nate, I think he’s not seeing that Medicare and Medicaid expansion would be popular if Medicaid were better funded (we have to get the states out of it). So my view is that we pass those kinds of changes, let them run for two years, get the political credit, and then revisit to make them permament. As they work the insurance industry will perceive the danger in further expansion of these programs under reconciliation, so they will accept good regulations in return for avoiding further expansion. The key here is to use expansion of these programs not only as part solutions to our problems, but also their rising popularity as political hammers against the insurance industry.
Lets, I agree with all your suggested reasons. I have a question and a suggestion.
Question: Does the Senate bill have a provision in it that gives states the freedom to implement single-payer legislation? I was told a few weeks ago that Reid was contemplating including a provision that allowed states to apply to the Dept of Health and Human Services to implement their own system. I haven’t read the new Reid bill so I don’t know if such a provision is in there and if its so burdensome few states will jump through the hoops to apply. If there is no provision in the Senate bill allowing states, with minimal hassle, to implement their own programs, then I would amplify your 9th point (that the bill will kill off real reform) to stress that the bill will probably snuff out the state single-payer movement.
It will probably do so even if there is no explicit provision in the bill stating that the bill preempts state action. Federal courts have frequently found implicit preemption of state laws and regs by congressional laws that didn’t say a word about preemption. My guess is that if the individual mandate and the exchanges are enacted, the federal system will be deemed so comprehensive by the federal courts that those courts will find an implicit preemption of state action.
Suggestion: I urge you to note in future commentary that your nine reasons apply with equal force to the House bill, in fact, with equal force to all versions of the Senate and House bills since the first drafts were published last June. The damage done to the freedom to choose an abortion since June should add to our outrage about these bills, but the abortion provisions should not be the reason for opposing them (which is the position taken by HCAN founding member Planned Parenthood). Similarly, the stripping of the “public option” from the Senate bill should not have been the determinative factor for anyone in deciding to oppose this bill.
I am hugely relieved that Howard Dean and Jane and others are now calling for opposition to the Senate bill. But in my judgement those who now criticize the Senate bill on the ground that the PO is gone should have been saying that back in June. I’m reluctant to get too exercised about that because people like Dean and Jane deserve a lot of credit for having the guts to have a bottom line, something Jason Rosenbaum and Richard Kirsch and Andy Stern and Jacob Hacker and the rest of the “leaders” of the PO campaign don’t have.
But I do think we have to be very clear about the circumstances in which those of us who oppose the Senate bill would retract our opposition. And I hope to high heaven one of those circumstances is not the restoration of the sad little PO in the House bill. I get down on my knees every day and thank God that the PO was stripped out of the Senate bill. The only role the PO has played since June has been to give well-meaning progressives all over America the cover they needed to support legislation that throws hundreds of billions of dollars per decade at the insurance industry, the nation’s most powerful opponent of single-payer.
I never worried that much about the impact of the sickly little PO. Since June I have always been quite confident in predicting that the PO in both bills will at best get a foothold in a minority of the markets around the country and never accomplish much, and at worst would die a slow death in full public view within five years or so. But such a failure would not be a stake in the heart of the single-payer movement. At worst the death or complete ineffectiveness of the PO would give the Limbaughs and Pallins something to smear the entire universal coverage movement with for a few years.
What has always scared me about the post-June-2009 version of the PO was the role it has played in inducing progressives to support an insurance industry bailout (the individual mandate and the subsidies to make the mandate affordable). Now that the PO fig leaf is gone from the Senate bill, many progressives now feel freer to condemn the Senate bill. I can only say, Thank god and urge progressives to use their newfound freedom to reevaluate their tolerance of the insurance industry bailout in the House bill.
Earlier today I signed the FDL petition to kill the Senate bill. I will sign with equal alacrity an FDL petition calling for the killing of the House bill. I’d be very comfortable with the petition saying we would be willing to be neutral or supportive toward either the House or Senate bill if the individual mandate were taken out.
Kip Sullivan
Hi Kip, I’m always happy to have your comments on one my posts. Also, kudos to you for your recent series (here’s part six) on 2/3 of Americans support Medicare for All. It’s a great series and I followed it avidly.
You asked:
As far as I know, there’s no provision giving states the freedom to implement Medicare for All, or single-payer generally. I’m happy to take up your suggestion that the 9th point should be amplified to indicate that it will snuff out state-level single-payer.
You also suggested:
I agree with all this, and as I think you know, I called for killing the House bill some time ago, also, and had a number of arguments with Jane and others at FDL who thought I was wrong about that.
I agree with your remarks about suggesting that people should have been in opposition to the bills coming out of Congress since June. I felt that way also, and negan to blog my firm opposition to the bills beginning in July here, even suggesting that any meaningful was already lost even at that early date. I also agree with you when you say:
I’m afraid that is Howard Dean’s condition. It may be Jane’s too. I’m with you though. I will oppose this bill as long as it has the mandates along with no choice of insurance for every single person in this country. I will also oppose it as long as it compromises on choice. I will also oppose it as long as it has a band-aid period before reform is implemented. I don’t care about deficits per se. The health of Americans is much more important than whether or not we run deficits.
Unlike yourself, I do worry about an inadequate PO passing and dsicrediting the role of Government in reform. This may well hurt Medicare for All, and so I would rather see no PO rather than an inadequate one, and I would be opposed to a bill with a sickly PO without a measure that allowed State-level Medicare for All to get started.
I signed the FDL petition against the Senate bill too, and would sign one against the House bill also if Jane sponsored one. Finally, I agree with you when say that a bill without mandates would be much more tolerable, but I would not tolerate any bill that further rolls back reproductive choice for women. I believe that certain principles of justice can never be compromised in legislation even for the best pragmatic reasons. And, for me, reproductive choice is one of them.
Thanks again for the thoughtful comment.
Oh, thank God you are still here, Lets. I was going to privately e-mail you to see if you had moved to another website.
Obama/Rahm want the bill that came out of the Senate Committee. Max whined to us that he could do nothing “because the President doesn’t support single payer”. The NY Times mag reported in June that Max was pretty much doing what the WH wanted.
This is about control. We have control freaks in charge. They don’t care about details as long as they are in charge. They also don’t care if the Democrats lose the majority in 2010. They can actually work better with the Republicans and
centristsbusiness Dems. The White House aka Obama and friends are neo-liberals. Obama is weak. He’s deeply conservative. Time for people to fact the facts. They voted in fascism with a liberal veneer.Our only strategy? Scare them with defection to other parties. Call them out. Cancel your credit cards. But don’t just “work to get better Democrats elected”. that’s Charlie Brown and Lucy time.
Hi mm, No, I’m still here and also at http://www.kmci.org/alllifeisproblemsolving and http://www.correntewire.com/blog/letsgetitdone. I cross-post at all three places, though most of the discussion occurs here and at Corrente. You’ll also find that lambert, selise, libbyliberal, hipparchia, DCBlogger, ValleyGirl, VastLeft, and others are also posting and commenting at Corrente, while some of us are still quite active here.
I agree very much with your analysis of the overall political situation. Obama and Rahm may actually be playing for a re-orientation of the political system containing three parties, with themsleves masters of a dominant Whig corporatist/globalist party. The Republican Party would then become a conservative party with a pronounced fundamentalist religious orientation that the Whigs would hope to marginalize, and the progressives, a leftist secular party which the Whigs would also hope to marginalize. While this is going on, the Whigs would also improverish the United States by continuing to loot the middle class and use the resources to profit in the global economic system.
Have you run across the proposal to begin The Justice Party yet?
Obama and Rahm may actually be playing for a re-orientation of the political system containing three parties, with themsleves masters of a dominant Whig corporatist/globalist party. The Republican Party would then become a conservative party with a pronounced fundamentalist religious orientation that the Whigs would hope to marginalize, and the progressives, a leftist secular party which the Whigs would also hope to marginalize. While this is going on, the Whigs would also improverish the United States by continuing to loot the middle class and use the resources to profit in the global economic system.
my dad and i were talking about this back between the election and the inauguration. i had decided to check out a local ofa group and we were talking about the possible ramifications if ofa grew. funny thing, my dad, who has for some time wished for a third party [somewhat along the lines of clintonianism] so he could give back the democratic party to the leftists, was actually critical of obama’s organizing machine and the kind of party that it could perhaps turn into.
hipparchia, Your Dad was right to be suspicious.
The House can repair it and make Joe & Ben stand before the people and tell them why they will kill a public option.
If the House improves the bill, then it won’t have the votes in the Senate and the Leadership will have to move to reconciliation. However, I’m not at all sure the House will kill it. The opponents of choice may still stay on Board because they have the Nelson language, not as bad as Stupak, probably enough to move Stupak people like Marcy Kaptur over. The progressives in the House could kill it, but they have been really lacking in cojones so far. If Pelosi applies the pressure now, will they really go against her? I don’t know. I think it’s iffy.
I’m sure Jane and FDL will be pressuring hard to get the House to move the bill away from the Senate version in Conference. But if they do, I don’t think Harry Reid will be able to get Lieberman and Nelson.
The Truth, the Reality of governing is that legislation in a timely fashion is more than good, it’s a necessity. Treading water in a hurricane is not good, so you must change the situation in a seriously fundamental way. In government that means legislation, however slow it may seem. So, the administration has every reason to push them to do a lot. And this year they have done a lot and the economy (for example) has come around and we’re doing HCR and financial regs and energy policy and AfPak and a lot of other things which normally might get a bit more attention.
Sure, you can spend forever and a day to get something important like HCR done ‘right’. But by spending that time you lose political capital and time to work on other things. That’s why it’s important to set the agenda before an administration begins and then to push it hard to get it done in a way that’s useful.
I’m impressed by the ideas and critiques about the current HCR. I wish there had been more of this a bit earlier when it might have been easier to consider them. Indeed some of them have been considered and adopted or rejected. There are clearly ideas which still need work. But, time is running short. Other issues arise and the public grows weary (sick to death really) of the fighting.
It’s time to get it done.
I hope we get the public option. I hope the conference committee manages to keep everything civil and productive. I hope and so far that hope has been rewarded with a lot of work and a pretty good product. Let’s get it from the one-yard line in and do that by making it better every hour.
You’re kidding, right?
Very glad to have found this edifying site. Last entry for the day: Was it a coincidence or a commentary that IFC showed Kill Bill 1 and 2 last night? Regardless, the Deadly Viper Assassination Squad, whose offspring all somehow have slithered into Congress, must be overthrown. See you all in the streets.
Well, the Iranians have the guts to do it. Why not us?
You’re right, montanamaven, progressive/liberal voters are refusing to admit we have a Clinton-style triangulator as President. In every meaningful way, he has allowed himself to be captured by industry. This should come as no surprise. His rhetoric on the campaign trail was either (1) inspirational gossamer, or (2) code for “I won’t rock the boat, I’m a corporatist”. Many voted for him, as did I, because we had no other viable choice.
Excellent points. The one about the subsidies not being indexed to rising costs is a killer.
The excise tax on “Cadillac” plans is also not indexed to rising costs, so by 2016 an awful lot of middle-class people will find themselves impacted by that tax. The effect will be that their businesses will remove benefits in order to avoid the tax. This provision breaks Obama’s promise that people will be able to keep their insurance if they like it.
There is nothing,repeat nothing,more important than health care reform to me and millions of others. I do not believe that provisons will be incrementally “improved” over time. At least not with thisfoundation, which is more of a foundation for decades-long control by the health cartel. They need to be stopped NOW.
Not to mention that really strong healthcare reform can do wonders to pull the economy out of the shitter all on its own.
It improves labor mobility tremendously. People who are working only to have health benefits can move on and open up positions for people who need to work for income. People who stay at jobs rather than pursuing entrepreneurism, because they need health benefits, can finally start competitive new businesses and create new jobs. The macro economy can re-allocate all the currently misallocated resources that are going toward propping up a system that should function like a public utility, but is instead allowed to run like a wholly exploitive and unbound oligopoly.
Very very important point in all of this as this is what makes countries like Denmark so productive. It’s the inequality that is killing us. Economically “Medicare for All” will move the country back from feudalism/fascism/FriedmanRubinomics. “Labor mobility” is vital to a healthy economy. It would move us away from being wage slaves. It would start to close the equality gap.
There is a reason Martin Luther King, Jr said that inequality is health care is the greatest inequality. Health care should be at the core of democratic and Democratic principles. Health care as a human right is one of the great moral issues of our time. It is at the heart of what used to be the Democratic Party. If you are not for this right, you are not a Democrat.
Economic injustice, militarism, and racism are the triple evils King preached against. We are watching the evils becoming stronger. We are slowly just like in Germany in the 1930s becoming good Germans.
I think that’s the problem. These Democrats are not Democrats. They are Whigs.
A study by the California Nurses Association estimated that Medicare for All would create 2.5 million new jobs. One way to look at this is that the opportunity of passing this turkey rather than HR 676 is 2.5 million jobs. Way to go Obama!
You can say that again.
Those here at FDL who advocate “killing the bill”, have never provided (to my knowledge) an answer to the question of what is to be done after the bill is killed. I have asked this question of both Jane and Noelle in various threads and both of them have given me non-answers and then ignored follow up questions. 45,000 people a year are dying for lack of medical care because they do not have insurance. Many of them will be covered on day one with the passage of this bill. If the bill is killed these people will continue dying.
The question is a simple one: You advocate killing the bill. What is your proposal for achieving Health Care Reform after the bill has been killed?
I am still waiting for an answer.
Answers have alread been given: Here, Here, Here, and Here.
Also, Jon Walker has some recent diaries on how reconciliation might work.
Thank you. Your diaries were very helpful in understanding your position.
I think you are right that reconciliation could work, but I am skeptical that it will.
Frankly, I don’t see this as a winning strategy. I think that we need to accept that fact that we live in a fascist corporatocracy and work for change in that context. I’m not sure what that means, but I think that is our reality. Wishing for single-payer through reconciliation is a pipe dream and the faster we all reslize that the sooner we can begin adjusting the strategy to the reality.
sangemon, I’m not wishing through single-payer through reconciliation, just for a real reform bill. Maybe one with no mandates, expansion of Medicare to lower age groupings, expansion of Medicaid, and a broad scope public option, and no band-aid period beyond 9 months.
Also, I don’t know why we can’t both work to get reconciliation and also work against the movement toward plutocracy. Can’t we do more than one thing at a time?