Today the MSM question of the morning for Congressional Progressive Caucus members is a variant of this:
“Which is worse, voting for a debt ceiling increase bill that doesn’t raise any revenue and that will lead to major cuts in discretionary programs, and in entitlements including Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, or voting to defeat a bill that does that and causing the United States to go into a default.”
So, there it is: a false choice again, being used to make progressives look bad if they say they will vote against anything but a clean debt ceiling deal.
In replying to these questions, some progressives are saying, both are worse, and it’s completely illegitimate to tie the debt ceiling vote to deficit reduction. Deficit reduction should be discussed separately when it’s time to pass a budget. Of course, the progressives are right about what ought to happen. But the problem is that they will have to decide whether to vote for a bill that will grievously hurt their constituents, or to vote against it.
What they most need to know at this point is that they have to reject outright the framing given in the question above. The choice is not between voting for default and voting for a terrible deficit reduction bill. The choice should have been put this way:
“Which is worse, voting for a debt ceiling increase bill that doesn’t raise any revenue and that will lead to major cuts in discretionary programs, and in entitlements including Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid, or voting to defeat such a bill and placing the debt ceiling problem in the hands of President Obama to handle”
The answer to this properly framed question is that it is better to vote to defeat any such bill, and to leave the President to handle the problem. Make no mistake about it. The President can prevent the default himself. There are 6 options he can use, and he will have a constitutional duty to do whatever is in his power and authority to prevent default. Here are the 6 options:
– Challenging the debt ceiling based on the 14th Amendment Section 4
– Selective default
– Proof Platinum Coin Seigniorage (PPCS)
– Running an overdraft at the Fed
– The Fed burning its Treasury Bonds
– The “exploding option” plan
I’ve previously discussed them in some detail here and also analyzed and compared them.
I’ve also written many posts on PPCS, because I think it is the preferred alternative among the 6. I won’t repeat what I’ve already said, and urge you to read some of the posts at the link. Instead, all I want to do is to emphasize that a vote against a “compromise bill” that doesn’t compromise with progressives is NOT a vote for default.
It’s a vote for the President to use his powers to solve the problem without requiring harmful spending cuts in an economy that can afford absolutely no cuts without corresponding spending increases.
So, make the President do it! Make him solve the problem and avoid a default! That is the best thing that progressives in Congress can do now to save the economy and begin to kill the current austerity mania that will destroy the futures of our children and Grandchildren.
And for those of us outside of Congress, the best thing we can do is to ask our Representative and Senators to vote against anything except a clean debt ceiling deal, and to point out to them that they would not be voting for default; but only for placing the problem in the hands of the President who will have to handle it without making a big deal that hurts most Americans and that also, incidentally, forces them to walk the plank! Tell Bernie Sanders! Tell Sheldon Whitehouse! Tell Al Franken! Tell Dennis Kucinich! Tell Raul Grijalva! Tell Keith Ellison! Tell Barbara Lee! Tell Donna Edwards! Tell Louise Slaughter! Tell Marcy Kaptur! Tell them all!
Tell them to make no mistake! Tell them in no uncertain terms, that we will not forgive them in 2012 for giving away parts of the social safety net; when they easily could have avoided it by voting for the President to take care of the problem without making a deal. The President is dealing with the Republicans and going after our bread and butter! And Congressional progressives are aiding and abetting him by accepting false framings of the issue, and deluding themselves or trying to delude us into thinking they have no choice. Tell them that we do know they have a choice. Tell them to stop marching with the oligarchs, or we will find other Senators and Representative who will march with us!
Cross-posted from Correntewire.com.



168 Comments

They’ve all been out there all week saying he should use the 14th. You’re right. Do they really believe it, or was it just so much rhetoric?
Recommended.
Great one Hoss! And it makes perfect sense. After all isn’t this the president that wants us to “make him do it”? This would be right along those lines.
I will NOT FORGIVE THEM, any of them, if they ram through this ruinous deal.
Recc’d. Thanks for pointing out the framing. Now the question becomes, what, as progressives, do we do, or not do, in 2012?
My question is how to get through the month with food and utilities paid, and maybe medicine? Fuck them in 2012, I am going to try to damage as many incumbents as possible before I die. They’re fucking parasites and I want rid of them.
Just finished calling Boxer and Feinstein urging them to vote no on the latest capitulation re the ‘super congress’ telling them to put it on Obama, that he has the capacity to lift the debt ceiling legally and that they need to cut him loose if the Dem Party isn’t going to be defeated big time in 2012.
Thanks, Jane. At this point, I just wanted to write something that brought the point that he has alternatives to them, and then see how broadly I could spread it on twitter.
Proof Platinum Coin Seigniorage (PPCS) is all over the web now; and Paul Krugman mentioned it in passing on ABC today.
All I have is my vote. I feel like I waste my energy contacting Congress. They’ve proven time and again that they don’t give a damn what I say or think. All of them need to face primary opposition in 2012.
Thanks Bill, I couldn’t agree more.
Maybe we need to replace “Move-On!” with an organization called “We Will Not Forgive,” and primary all the chicken-shit bastards!
MSGOP is reporting that Pelosi is saying the house dems may not back the deal.
`Tell Louise Slaughter!’
Oh please. Louise helped make this government-by-fubar a foregone conclusion last December, when, as chair of the House rules committee, she helped ram through the re-up of the Bush tax cuts.
Progressive Co-Chair says….drum roll please….
We’ll see…
I don’t trust any of ‘em anymore.
I neither. I will never forget this betrayal.
As usual, there’s been a lot of either/or bs in this nonsense.
My favorite is scaring people who depend on Social Security checks into thinking that, if the debt ceiling isn’t raised by any means necessary, that they won’t be getting their Social Security checks come Aug 3.
In other words, our current seniors will have to suffer unless we let them open the door to destroying Social Security for our future seniors.
What assholes. And these are Democrats who are pushing this bs.
I like that idea.
The Super Commission is just an attempt to keep the Pols hands clean the commission gets the blame but every Dem who votes for the commission is guilty and I won’t be voting for them.
I just cannot believe the Dems are so stupid they are letting the GOP get away with only the minimal number of votes to pass this.
The GOP has cleaner hands than the Dems do on cutting SS and medicare.
This is political malpractice if you have to pass something unpopular then both sides need to step up.
Lets see if the Tea Baggers fall for this obvious sham their side could kill this deal if they wanted too same as our side.
They just got more political cover.:(
I can’t and won’t sell this plan to Dems.
Just wrote all three of “my” Congresscritters — all Dems, including Pelosi:
“If you vote for that unconscionable deficit hysteria bill Senator Reid has just (July 31) thrown his support behind, not only have you lost this registered Democrat’s vote for all time, I will be unregistering as a Democrat and will be working for the defeat of every single Democrat who does vote for it — including Obama of course. You people are destroying the Democratic Party, along with the social safety net for the sick, the elderly, and the poor — and democracy. Why would anyone waste their time, money or vote on you when they can get the same Republican policies by doing nothing?”
Recc’d!!! x20 all fucking bull shit! Just raise the debt limit as it has always been done.. The repukes should all be lined up and use your own imagination what should be done with them…
FYI, email for the Congressional Progressive Caucus: progressive@mail.house.gov
I don’t know what an exploding option is but they shouuld just burn the damn bonds at the fed. I can’t understand how they should be counted as outstanding when they are sitting in a vault at the fed. sounds nuts.Then they should mint about 15 trillion dollar coins and eliminate the debt. Period.
FWIW it looks to me like part of this post repeats.
“It’s a vote for the President to use his powers to solve the problem without requiring harmful spending cuts in an economy that can afford absolutely no cuts without corresponding spending increases.”
And then it begins with the same question as the lead sentence in the post (Today the MSM question of the morning for Congressional Progressive Caucus members is a variant of this)
…and repeats until “So make the President do it!” You might want to edit that to remove the extra paragraphs. Probably a copy/paste error.
Great “communication,” madcap.
I think the Dems, and Obama especially, are underestimating the intensity of the base’s loathing for Obama.
People are ANGRY. More and more and more are saying, “I will NEVER vote for this a**hole.” And they mean it.
When folks are this pissed off, it’s less easy to scare them with the Palin/Bachmann bogeyman/woman.
I don’t think this fervor is going to decrease markedly by Nov. 2012.
On the same show, Jane’s old buddy Grover was crowing about how we will never have an early 90′s type tax increase on the wealthy. Just sad.
I’ve written all my congress critters and the pres twice this week.
Grijalva has issued a strong statement. I’ll believe him when I see him whipping for the bill’s defeat AND voting against it. Not holding my breath. We’ve all seen this act before.
http://grijalva.house.gov/index.cfm?sectionid=13&parentid=5§iontree=5,13&itemid=1063
letsgetitdone, your clear-voiced wisdom, regarding so many things, is an asset to conscious and considered understanding.
Recommended to the attention of all who watch, with increasing consternation, as the idiocy unfolds.
DW
As has been the case again and again since Obama took office, Democrats have been the bigger problem than Republicans by far.
Look beyond the rhetoric.
Grover believes in something, and he acts on those beliefs. It’s no clear yet whether the members of the CPC actually do.
Even sadder.
That really made me angry. Especially since Obama told the bond vigilantes they didn’t have to worry, he’d make sure they got paid.
You mean the statement he issued against the bill he voted for yesterday?
http://fdlaction.firedoglake.com/2011/07/31/grijalva-statement-opposing-the-bill-he-voted-for-yesterday/
That was a profoundly cynical move.
party tonight? i have chips and dip left from last night?
A variation on this that might spell it out even further: “We Will Not Forget And We Will Hold You Accountable”.
Grijalva
was for the bill before he was against itfolded on the bill before he wrote a sternly worded press release against it.
Yeah, lol, I just got my Ma approved for Medicare hospice yesterday (she’s been private-pay in long-term care for more than 3 and a half years). Maybe the Repu’ublicists can cut that out — and cut down that cushy $938 / mo SS she gets.
Just for a little subversion’s sake, let me offer this:
Lotta people are pissed and unregistered from whatever Dem lists and parties and websites and so forth. Re-consider joining OFA and hear me out.
They just sent me an invite over the weekend to attend a house party to celebrate the President’s birthday.
I’m showing up to PROTEST IT! I’m gonna march up and down in front of that house (on the street) with a sign that says:
***************
You cut Social Security/Medicare 2011?
We cut YOU 2012!
***************
It’s always good to know what they’re up to, and counter it.
…and primary all the chicken-shit bastards!
that would be a fine way to “Move On”.
And as Beowulf notes, it is the only one with no legal problem, and because it exists, it provides a problem to the USSC declaring the debt limit un-Constitutional under the 14th, because it provides a simple out that avoids the use of the 14th.
I still think the 14th flies because the USSC will not jump in to screw up the economy.
But I like the coin idea!
Kelly, I agree. I’m still signed up for all the e-mails. I want to know what the enemy is doing.
Yes, and what Grover “believes in” is VILE.
So when are you going to get off the bloody fence and start pushing for a stand alone Progressive/Labor party, Jane???
“I neither. I will never forget this betrayal.”
Barack Benedict Arnold Obama! And his Dem army off rubber spines.
The which pitch is an old sales trick and they are biting on iy every time!
“…Clearly, a significant chunk of Pelosi’s caucus is outraged. Progressive Caucus chairman Raul Grijalva (D., Ariz.) said the proposed deal “trades people’s livelihoods for the votes of a few unappeasable right-wing radicals, and I will not support it.” Rep. Emmanuel Cleaver (D., Mo.), chairman of the Congressional Black Caucus, called it “a sugar-coated Satan sandwich.” The two chairmen have scheduled a joint-press conference on Monday to call on President Obama to raise the debt ceiling by invoking the 14th amendment…”
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/273247/reids-pelosi-hesitant-gop-looking-votes-andrew-stiles
“O” wants this done so he and Arnie(etc) can go play basketball!!!
Very interesting take from the very independent Al Jaazeera:
The kabuki play on Capitol Hill
The real deficit in Washington is one of political morality and honesty.
“Forget about ‘winning the future’ – Barack Obama wants to win the centre. That’s what the Washington Post is telling readers (7/25/11):
Obama ‘Big Deal’ on Debt a Gamble to Win the Centre?
Advisers think securing his plan would ensure general-election victory.
The Post’s Zachary A Goldfarb (who can’t be held responsible for the headline) explained that Obama was making Republicans an offer they couldn’t refuse …
He added:
“Obama’s political advisers have long believed that securing such an agreement would provide an enormous boost to his 2012 campaign, according to people familiar with White House thinking. In particular, they want to preserve and improve the president’s standing among independents.”
http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/07/20117317512537743.html
Yep voting for the 3rd party in Calif. Peace and Freedom or Green in 12 No More the Lesser of 2 Evils.
Thanks: I have a Repub who could care less…..
He already voted for Reid – first beta version
And the progressive caucus chair does say he is against, but does not say he will vote against.
pass the popcorn
The American middle class, the poor, the elderly, the vulnerable have been placed into a lose-lose situation by the debt ceiling debacle: face default, in which we all lose, or face the shredding of the social safety net, in which we all lose! And neither of those alternatives deals substantively with the debt problem and both will increase joblessness. And the mega-rich continue their bloodsucking ways. After Aug. 2, comes and goes, there will be consequences for both political parties.
Move On – a bunch of brain-washed, apron-wringing, well-behaved little neoliberal Obots.
So true and the only loser will be us on Main Street.
I have a prediction.
If this passes and part of the deal is a bi-cameral commission on spending reductions, that will become a fundamental change to the very nature of our democracy. It won’t happen right away but soon this committee will morph into the real political and policy center. Members of this committee will soon be the only deciders of spending policy. All decisions will be in their hands. Eventually some useful idiot will suggest that instead of elected officials, members should be appointed to life time positions. They will become the government and Congress and the President will be merely a mask to disguise the true power until the take over is complete and we are all nothing better that serfs who’s sole purpose is to sevice the ruling elite.
It’s too late to stop it. The hand has been dealt. All that’s left is to watch it happen. Short of some major calamity that completely upsets the balance of power in the world this is our future. Those of us old enough to be dead in a few years will be spared to worst part of it. The generations to come, however, will have to suffer the consequence of what is being done today.
This would be the same Grijalva who was once a progressive leader in Congress, no? He should be made to resign from the Progressive Caucus.
Those fuckers ALWAYS get paid.
“Obama’s political advisers have long believed that securing such an agreement would provide an enormous boost to his 2012 campaign….
Holy.
Shit.
It’s time for O to bring George W. Bush-thinking back. Whatever he/they say is wrong. Proceed accordingly.
How much you wanna bet that Paul Ryan will be appointed one of the Junta members?
If you think his “base” is mad, you should talk to some Indys.
Exactly! Look at the RESULTS.
Supposedly the “Progressive Caucus” has scheduled a meeting. This is where they will pass out the K-Y jelly the WH sent over.
You mean the Proctozone-hc, right. Oh, wait, Congresscritters don’t have to settle for generics…
Oh, did you hear Plouffe suggest that the committee be composed of people who were willing to stand apart from their party. In other words, he doesn’t want any members from the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.
I’d like to know what we’re supposed to do with the 523 congress critters who now have no purpose for existing. Maybe we should stop paying them or maybe we could convince them to setup a government in exile.
Repu’ublicist conference call to ensue in 35 minutes.
Obama doesn’t *need* the 14th.
The debt ceiling is just one more Congressional action, in no Constitutional way superior to all the others signed by this and previous Presidents. Those earlier Congressional mandates require the executive to spend the money to implement the votes of those many Congresses. Just what has been happening all along.
When Congress gives contradictory instructions to the Executive in Charge of Making It So, the exec can do nothing but choose which Congressional directive to follow – and which to ignore.
Once the debt ceiling is hit, anything at all that Obama does, even if he does nothing at all, will violate some directive(s) of Congress. Given no possible choice but to ignore *some* Congressional mandate, why not do what he sees as best for America? He can show himself to be a strong leader and dare anyone to do anything about it.
The 14th is fine, but it is just a backup position for the “contradictory instructions” position.
We’ll have a House of Lords and a House of Commons within the Senate.
I want to know what the enemy is doing.
*heh* Ain’t that the truth…!
“He can show himself to be a strong leader and dare anyone to do anything about it.”
___
Well, that’s what the Big Dog argued.
Sadly I fear you are right. After 30+ years of indoctrination and propaganda the “public” is primed to accept whatever a corrupt political class throws at them. The country has moved so far to the right and the left has been an abysmal failure in framing the issues that there is a historical inevitability at what is playing out. Democracy was allowed to die and soon many Americans will follow.
I hope you are wrong. I have taken some solace from the fact that a few progressives endure in the face of tremendous pressures.
There is no “become” about it, Jerry, the mere consideration of it is a fundamental threat to democracy … and signals a “change” within the ranks of those who are sworn to both uphold the Constitution AND represent the intersts of their constituents.
The very idea is an end-run around democracy and an embrasure of nothing less than blatant rule by an elite, above the law, and beyond legitimate “authority” which may ONLY come from the will of the people … who possess, in a genuine democracy, the only legitimate “mandate”.
We are witness to a coup, to an act which is nothing less treason against the rights of the people, the principles of conscience, and the rule of law.
That is how serious the matter is now, not next week, and not next year, for you are correct in assessing today’s action as it is INTENED to be extended tomorrow …
DW
DW
Yeah, the Republicans have been screwing over the American people that they turned to the Democrats, only to get screwed over by the Democrats, too.
But you still have to look at what they are demandig for a normally cleam bill… All fucking BS by both sides.. But the real blame lies at the republican’s feet! They want an end to the New Deal and anything that helps those in most need of a fucking break in life… If they get thire way, and it looks like they will, it WILL cost lives of the least amoung us…Pure fucking greed at it most base!
Do you think most of the U.S public understands the ramifications let alone cares? I don’t. The public has been molded into passive, ignorant pieces of clay that the political class molds to their own benefit. Given there is on organized opposition historical forces will just have to play out.
Nancy Pelosi had a news conference and she didn’t look pleased. She was noncomittal about the conference voting for the bill. She said she’d have to read the details. She had just spent 2 hours with Harry Reid and she claims she doesn’t know what’s in the bill? Hard to believe.
Glad to see the Congressional Black Caucus came out against this bill. They’ve been carrying Obama’s water since day 1. Guess this was a bridge too far.
Pelosi and Hoyer think they can deliver 90-100 votes. We’ll see if that many Democrats are willing to stick their necks out and vote for this piece of crap.
I’m interested how many of the 23 Democratic Senators up for relection will vote for this bill.
And what are the “consequences.” What’s your plan?
I suspect that your assessment is likely correct, Bluetoe2, and that the price of education has just gone through the roof.
And yet, painful as it undoubtedly will be, given the unwillingness of many Americans to seek deeper understanding, this trauma is something that must be experienced that learning, sufficient, may possibly ocurr.
DW
A quick Photoshop for ya.
http://www.bgladd.com/KY4Dems.jpg
Valiant diary, even blessed by Mz, Hamsher.
So tell me folks.
How DO we pressure congress NOT to pass this vile shit, which looks like it will be done tonite or soon.
What’s the action to be taken? What’s the magic pressure to apply at this point in time (this Super Congress game’s over folks, a bit late for a heroic last stand know what I mean?)?
I see a lotta talk . . . what’s the action? What’s the pressure?
K-Y is far too expensive, likely it will be some petroleum product, which may be bought by the pound … of flesh, or otherwise, old chap.
DW
i shall work hard to unseat anybody that votes to cut SS or medicare
Indeed, The O Deal!
The big problem with contesting O’s possible use of the 14th is standing. Someone would have to show they were harmed by that.
In memory of the dearly departed Democratic Party:
http://www.fdrlibrary.marist.edu/pdfs/fftext.pdf
For there is nothing mysterious about the foundations of a healthy and strong democracy. The basic things expected by our people of their political and economic systems are simple. They are: Equality of opportunity for youth and for others. Jobs for those who can work. Security for those who need it. The ending of special privilege for the few. The preservation of civil liberties for all.
The enjoyment of the fruits of scientific progress in a wider and constantly rising standard of living.
These are the simple, basic things that must never be lost sight of in the turmoil and unbelievable complexity of our modern world. The inner and abiding strength of our economic and political systems is dependent upon the degree to which they fulfill these expectations.
Many subjects connected with our social economy call for immediate improvement. As examples:
We should bring more citizens under the coverage of old-age pensions and unemployment insurance.
We should widen the opportunities for adequate medical care.
We should plan a better system by which persons deserving or needing gainful employment may obtain it.
I have called for personal sacrifice. I am assured of the willingness of almost all Americans to respond to that call.
A part of the sacrifice means the payment of more money in taxes. In my Budget Message I shall recommend that a greater portion of this great defense program be paid for from taxation than we are paying today. No person should try, or be allowed, to get rich out of this program; and the principle of tax payments in accordance with ability to pay should be constantly before our eyes to guide our legislation.
recommended with enthusiasm.
i’ve told my congressman (cpc-member) and i’ll do it again…. maybe something like this:
dear representative mcgovern, stand up on the house floor and tell the president and the american people what needs to be done: Proof Platinum Coin Seigniorage!
we’ve had one day of action, let’s have another. this time we can tell them not only what we want (hands off social security, medicare and medicaid), we’ll also tell them how we want them to do it.
what do you-all have to say about that? are you in?
Thanks Bruce!
I’m glad to have a simple ask to deliver to the members of Congress who claim they oppose cutting Social Security:
“Vote against anything except a clean debt ceiling deal … [you would] not be voting for default; but only for placing the problem in the hands of the President who will have to handle it without making a big deal that hurts most Americans.”
With that message, we make it clear we will support them in rejecting every variation of this bullshit and every attempt to impose Catfood Commission II.
What are the chances that the progressive caucus by itself (40 members?) could stop the Harry Reid bill?
If Pelosi whipped her entire caucus to reject everything but a clean debt ceiling bill, could she stop the White House deal?
I have that problem too. But we have to do it. Can’t let ‘em off the hook.
he is a strong leader to the 25,000$ a plate diners with 350$ bottles of wine
WashingtonWays
I think’s that’s just her little dance.
I know, but tell her anyway! This is about telling them that they are walking the plank when they vote like this.
I don’t either. That’s why you have to keep on top of ‘em.
“Tis going to be passed, one way or another, Larue, it’s long-term thinking … how shall we, when it comes crashing down, rise from the ashes and build a civil, sustainable and peacable society,
Unless someone sees something far different from the end-time gloamings which seem mmost evident to me.
DW
the Money Mafia theme
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhmQ1TDOlSo
Yes, it infuriated me too. But almost anything he does has infuriated me since the great health care reform kabuki of 2009-10!
Had to laugh at that! I hadn’t seen your piece, Jane, and now feel trapped in some Machiavellian version of the old limerick. One expects political cynicism — but political cynicism is now unfolding much faster than one can form an expectation!
There was a young lady named Bright
Who could travel much faster than light.
She set out one day
In a relative way
And returned on the previous night.
that is funny!
madcap, I think it’s better to primary them. I have nothing against third parties and am not one of those who blame Ralph for Bush’s victory; but it just seems to me that it’s easier to beat the bastards in a primary, than it is to beat them in the general election when they have the full support of the party apparatus.
I say Progressives need to vote no, and put the pressure on this feaux Democrat. Obama has worked to corner the Democrats, once again, into an impossible corner, while taking the Tea-GOP off the hook completely for their madness. All the MSM is pointing to progressives as the group who’ll kill this deal, as they do their jobs of protecting the Tea-nuts. Now it’ll be the progressives who are being unreasonable and demanding too much, not the Tea-nuts who drove this whole fiasco. I think the president put the Democratic caucus exactly where he wanted them. He’s wanted to make cuts to entitlements from day one, and has put them in a position of annihilation.
I refuse to believe this president is that politically deficient. And I refuse to believe he doesn’t understand the true nature and motives of the GOP, especially the Tea-nuts. I believe he worked skillfully to entrap his own party to force them to make cuts to programs he knew full well even he’d never get through Congress.
If there’s a better theory, I’d like to hear it. The more I look at his first 2.5 years, and seeing time and time again how obstinent the right is, and the fact this president always seems to walk into a corner and claim he was forced there, then claims he has to compromise with the right on their turf; then you have to conclude its intentional. Either that, or this supposedly highly intelligent guy, as we’re constantly told by his supporters, is the dumbest political strategist in this nation’s history. I mean, how many times can the hapless keystone cops run the same playbook, and keep catching their quarry in the same trap, and win each and everytime? I don’t know, you tell me!
Thanks!
Threaten to primary them too. The majority of their rank and file supports SS and Medicare too. Run as an SS/Medicare Republican!
Some of the Senators up in ’12
Sheldon Whitehouse – Rhode Island
Jon Tester – Montana
Bob Casey – Pennsylvania
Amy Klobuchar – MN
Sherrod Brown – Ohio
Bill Nelson – Florida
Debbie Stabenow – Michigan
Dianne Feinstein – California
Jeff Bingaman – New Mexico
Kent Conrad – North Dakota
Jim Webb – West Virginia
Clair McCaskill – Missouri
Ben Cardin – Maryland
I explained why they can’t burn the bonds in this diary: http://my.firedoglake.com/letsgetitdone/2011/07/28/what-if-a-debt-limit-extension-is-voted-down/
MSGOP reporting we are about to hear from the Piece of Shit in Chief.
Thanks Ms. Molly, I’ll edit!
Just read that, and called Grijalva’s office, mail box is full!
So, I called Adam Salvana’s cell phone, (202) 573-2562, and he answered it! Think he’s Press Secretary or like it?
He stands by the press release, says the caucus is tired of being kicked around, alludes to GOP/TEA dong all the kicking and cautiously ducked the caucus stand regarding their own P/arty kicking them, and Obama kicking them.
Arguing for the 14th . . . claiming they were all misled, I asked him to tell the caucus that Pelosi and Reid and the dem leadership in both houses and in WH were the worst enemy and if the caucus did NOT take an immediate position of a 3rd party for we the people only they would be slaughtered in ’12 elections.
He agreed about the caucus members concern regarding the slaughter, ducked the Dim Party allegations I painted for him.
LeSigh. Great guy though, took my guff and didn’t hang up n me, gave me a lot of phone time.
They ARE worried about re election . . . but, he waffled on the 173 dems who voted FOR the damned bill which House recently defeated . . . I said NO SUPER CONGRESS, he kept working around it . . .
I said the votes are the only thing that counts at the end of the day and the Caucus votes to date since they were elected were horrid . . . back to his talking points he went.
They are playing kabuki and have NO intention of confronting their own Dem leadership I don’t think, only will be making a SHOW they are confronting Obama and Dem leadership.
LeSigh.
may he choke on his words,or a pretzel….just kiddin mods
Thanks, Larue.
Does everybody already know this? NYT disclosed around 6:30 tonight the current terms of the deal between the White House and Republicans. It looks like WH is going to try to fool us by claiming the deal protects Social Security, only cuts Medicare “a little” and might, could, should, maybe might cut a teensy little bit out of military budgets.
What I cannot fathom is how any sane Democrat would ever vote for a deal that required another vote on the Balanced Budget Amendment as a hammer to force Catfood Commission II to approve massive additional cuts:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/01/us/politics/01FISCAL.html?hp=&pagewanted=print
“There seemed to be broad agreement that any deal reached would include at least $2.5 trillion in spending cuts over the next 10 years, of which $1.2 trillion would be approved now. But there was intense jockeying over the terms governing the next steps, including the work of a new bipartisan Congressional committee whose members would be charged with finding more deficit reductions in time for a second increase in the debt ceiling in just a few months.
“Failure by that committee would trigger automatic cuts in programs beloved by Democrats and Republicans, respectively, unless Congress later this year passed a Constitutional amendment requiring balanced budgets.
“Strong balance-the-budget language has been the linchpin of support for any new fiscal plan among many House Republicans, who forced their leaders to include it last week in a bill to raise the debt ceiling, but it is anathema to many Democrats in the Senate, and in any event requires two-thirds approval in each house to take effect.
“The negotiators appeared to be having a hard time defining what kind of cuts would occur at the end of the year 2012 if Congress failed to act on the committee’s recommendations.
“Under the framework that negotiators were discussing today, half of those cuts would come in defense spending, while the other half would be a combination of other domestic spending, like discretionary programs and farm subsidies. Cuts to Medicare would not make up more than 3 percent of the non-military cuts. While many Republicans are loath to risk such cuts to defense, some of the more Tea Party-influenced freshmen members are less concerned with that than with getting big spending cuts overall while avoiding tax increases at all costs.
“And negotiators agreed that any deal would not include language that could lead to a new formula for the annual cost-of-living adjustments for Social Security beneficiaries, a change that could save more than $100 billion in the first 10 years. While many economists have long said the existing formula overstates inflation, many Democrats oppose any change that would reduce benefits from current law. Dropping the proposal from the White House-Congressional talks reflected in part the influence of Representative Nancy Pelosi, the Democratic minority leader, whose negotiating hand has been strengthened, since she will have to deliver a significant number of Democrats votes for House passage of any solution, given the likelihood that Mr. Boehner will face a significant loss of Republican votes.”
Ms. Molly please read again. I found some minor typo but no repetition.
Thanks, just emailed them.
Three points:
1. Bingaman, Conrad, and Jim Webb are retiring, not running for re-election.
2. The Super Congress has to get at least seven votes to pass any proposal out to the Congress. Whattya bet they’ll make it an “Easy Eight” by putting the retiring Lieberman and Conrad both on the committee?
2. Of the Dems running for re-election, how about we target for punishment in the primaries the greatest of the faux Dems:
Sherrod Brown
Debbie “Stab-Me-Now”
Amy Klobuchar
Claire McCaskill
Sheldon Whitehouse
I’d add DiFi to the list except that the cost of campaigning in CA is so extreme that I doubt a successful insurgency candidate could be fielded.
Might also want to go after Tester. Small state, relatively cheap to campaign. A lefty might be toast in the general, but the idea is to punish Dems who don’t vote like Dems, so off with his (electoral) head!
Thank you DW.
Piece of shit on teevee alert. What a fucking rat bastard lying no good son of a bitch.
priceless. Except Webb already said he’s retiring; Conrad, too, IIRC.
Otherwise, very handy index to who needs an early reminder that they are replaceable, and we don’t care by who.
Reposting this from above where I replied to someone about the Grijalva Press Release link:
Just read that, and called Grijalva’s office, mail box is full!
So, I called Adam Salvana’s cell phone, (202) 573-2562, and he answered it! Think he’s Press Secretary or like it?
He stands by the press release, says the caucus is tired of being kicked around, alludes to GOP/TEA dong all the kicking and cautiously ducked the caucus stand regarding their own P/arty kicking them, and Obama kicking them.
Arguing for the 14th . . . claiming they were all misled, I asked him to tell the caucus that Pelosi and Reid and the dem leadership in both houses and in WH were the worst enemy and if the caucus did NOT take an immediate position of a 3rd party for we the people only they would be slaughtered in ’12 elections.
He agreed about the caucus members concern regarding the slaughter, ducked the Dim Party allegations I painted for him.
LeSigh.
Great guy though, took my guff and didn’t hang up n me, gave me a lot of phone time.
They ARE worried about re election (or so he says) . . . but, he waffled on the 173 dems who voted FOR the damned bill which House recently defeated . . . I said NO SUPER CONGRESS, he kept working around it . . .
I said the votes are the only thing that counts at the end of the day and the Caucus votes to date since they were elected were horrid . . . back to his talking points he went.
Seems to me they are playing kabuki and have NO intention of confronting their own Dem leadership I don’t think, only will be making a SHOW they are confronting Obama and Dem leadership.
LeSigh.
Do I really wanna waste my time with Pelosi, Boxer n SciFi?
Someone tell me why I should call them at this stage (game’s over it seems)?
Nice catch on the phone#!
I’m dialing!
I knew nothing about this alleged vote on a “super Congress” by Democrats. How did this happen? I thought this was Boner’s idea, i.e Republican. How did it become Reid’s idea? And how did this limited group get the power to change the social safety net by itself? Jane says it’s the only reason it exists. How did I miss that? Is that a given at this point? I may lose a building valued at $1,000,000 in 2007 (my depleted retirement) this year because of lost tenants, and I would still fight like hell rather than let those lying, selfish, racist, rethugs halt the debt ceiling increase. THEY voted for the budget; they have to live with it. Why are oil subsidies, war (“defense” around the world), the filthy rich, and offshore tax havens NOT on the table, and my retirement and Medicare are still at risk???
It is a back-up; but there’s no contradiction if he can raise the revenue through PPCS.
please tell me what the liar and Chief is saying.cant watch
Indeed.
Is Jane live-blogging Piece of Shit’s presser?
Di Fi is probably a lost cause. Boxer just won re-election by the skin of her teeth to Meg Whiless. If it is wasn’t for the pathetic campaign meg ran she might have unseated babs. Pelosi on the other hand needs to go. The fact that she stood on the floor last night and said boner went to the dark side and then turned around and did the same thing herself 5 minutes later says it all. They need to go every last one of them.
Until I see proof (and with this I am in disagreement with even Mz. Hamsher) that either coining or the 14th are more than wishing for a pony with a horn on its head I dismiss them as being pie in the sky dreams.
I just don’t see either being possible with this group of erected offals, NONE of them.
I’d LOVE to be proven wrong on this . . . but.
It was very clear, I reread it a couple of times. But I read it before it was front-paged, and when I saw it again on the front page, the duplication was gone. I assumed you had fixed it. Either I had a browser fart or it was (yet another) MyFDL glitch. It just looked like the contents had been pasted in twice.
And thanks for these posts. I have learned so much from you.
I’m in; but it will have to be tomorrow morning. They have a deal now and are trying to sell it to the tea partiers and progs.
“If Pelosi whipped her entire caucus to reject everything but a clean debt ceiling bill, could she stop the White House deal?”
What POSSIBLE motivation could Pelosi have to even consider this? Recapturing the House in ’12? Getting her gavel back? HAH!
She’d be bucking her corporate donors and overlord, bankers and Wall St who are bent on privatizing all government services She don’t work for the people, she works for them others I mention.
I don’t see her motivation . . . none at all. Just kabuki.
Gie ‘em HELL brothuh Kelly!
I’m gonna skin a Kete river salmon, fire up my camp stove grill.
N watch SG-1 rerun . . . I’m played out for now.
Dawg help us all . . . .
It was a DePress(ing) Conference.
Thanks. Forgot Bingaman quit too. I vote for Ohio, Michigan, Minnesota & Missouri. I say leave Rhode Island alone.
Well, I see he plans to campaign for reelection on cutting Medicare. He really, really, really wants to cut Medicare. And you know when he begins the next debate telling the R’s how much he really, really, really can’t wait to cut Medicare and we know what a fabulous negotiator he is you gotta wonder if he won’t wind up requiring everyone over 65 to pay back every cent they received in Medicare.
*waves to demi*
Doing the same thing, but no sign. Just asking questions re: how they can still support this candidate. Figure I’ll take waste the balance of their time with debate. Oh, and I’ll gladly recycle any signs/pamphlets they push on me.
You may well have a good general point. But as noted, I live in Pelosi’s district — and she is not going to be successfully primaried. Just to have a discussion about her record, and the record of the Democrats, would seem to require a force from outside the local, powerfully entrenched Democratic Party. And the discussion, I believe, is a necessary prelude to any successful democratic (small d) change…even if the goal is to change the party machine from within.
I would nevertheless be very happy to see someone take up the mantle of a primary challenge to Pelosi, Boxer and Feinstein from the left. It might even have me re-registering as a Democrat. ;-)
My rep is Barbara Lee,and after many years of loyal support, I”m gone unless she throws this vicious anti-safety net ploy back at Obama and let him be accountable for his reactionary vision.The prog caucus should just fold its tent if it sells out once again.
Glad to see you not holding anything back and I agree with you 200 %.
We is all taking a boat trip down South after being sold out by our savior.
And saviors are so hard to find these days.
a souless dick…there i said it
Dawg indeed …
I want Cardin out as well. This guy is a McCaskill in the making.
Bingaman of NM will be retiring in ’12. You should see the clown car of candidates that have announced for his seat!
It won’t last for generations. A decade, at most. Then the guillotines and the firing squads will rise when their own military, who they are even now telling may not get their paychecks, turn on them.
BETRAYED!
Good thing I am getting ready to open a new business. I knew they were gunning for medicare. I’m already close to being closed due to the cuts they have enacted already over the years. Cutting medicare is a job killer! You evil sons of bitches. Democrats are the most craven cowards the world has ever seen.
Never again will I vote for a democrat. Never again will I give money to a democrat. Never again will I work to help elect a democrat. No more helping to get voters to the voting booth. No more calling voters to get them out to vote at my own expense.
Who is the worst enemy the forces you fight against or those who betray you from within? TRAITORS!
I’d love to be proven wrong, too. I think you’re right, Larue. We’ll find out in a week or two. The business networks are saying that some of the ruling corporatist class has bet on a default, therefore it will happen, but only for a couple of weeks.
Then we’ll see the Supercongress, and the tattered velvet glove of the Republic comes off the iron fist of the Fascist Empire. And there’s no Darth Vader to discover his inner goodness and save the Last of the Jedi.
And then Marx will be proven correct. Again.
Pelosi’s a rich bitch, a member of the ruling elite. Why do you put any faith in her?
Standing is not a problem…it is weighted toward NOT finding someone to have standing. For once this is a good thing.
And then there is the whole political question doctrine…
What really bothers me is the possibility that there is a Grand Bargain we don’t know about in which defeating the Dem Party in 2012 is a feature, not a bug.
I think it is crystal clear that the cpc is an integral element of the kabuki dance. the penultimate enablers. they serve no useful purpose to the progressive movement. In fact, they undermine it at every critical turn. Let us begin to wage war on these rats first.
True,
we loose nothing by chasing these cowards from office, as the health care plan, the tarp and the debt limit compromise so ably demonstrate. it would be difficult to see how the republicans could have gotten a better deal, and they certainly would not have had we had any opposition from the democrats.
lgid,
again, you offer a perfectly sane and well though=out strategy for honest players. unfortunately, the cpc is simply the last rung in the fix. the cpc has every opportunity to block this agreement and force obama to evoke the 14th amendment, but they are not poker players and apparently they lack the perspective to know that the powers that be will not let the government default. maybe they know more than you and me, though, it may be that they know they are irrelevant and that the powers that be will not allow them to be players. but, hey, they are comfortable in their captivity, aren’t they?
Thanks. I hadn’t thought of that, and I was just about to fall asleep.
Cut the sophistry! What first needs addressing is this:
PROOF: The U.S. Banking System is INSOLVENT
Our cowardly Congress in its insane dealings with this manufactured debt ceiling crisis CANNOT ESCAPE THIS FACT. They cannot possibly cut the budget enough to prevent the banking system’s collapse. In fact, by their efforts they are only proving themselves all too willing to hasten this end.
Every Democratic vote to enable this extortion frees one Republican maniac to vote against it. The affirmative Democratic vote will achieve nothing that Democrats claim to want and everything that Republicans have demanded — further enraging, depressing, or otherwise alienating the Democratic Party base — while the Negative Republican vote will give the tea-bagger maniacs everything they want without having to give up anything they don’t want — thereby confirming them in their extortion and whetting their insatiable appetite for more. I fail to see, therefore, why a single Democrat would see any incentive to vote for this steaming pile of economic/political shit.
President “Third Way” Obama and the Republicans have worked this out among themselves and should have to take full responsibility/blame for it. Since President Obama has done nothing that this liberal Vietnam Veteran voted for him to do — and loads of reactionary crap that I had no idea any Democrat would even consider doing — I have no further stake in his Presidency and no reason to want it to continue. He so much wants the tea-bagger Republican and fence-sitter “Independent” votes, then I say let him sink or swim with them. He doesn’t want or need me.
“Too late, the prophets(profits?) cry, the island’s sinking, let’s take to the sky!”
–Supertramp, Fool’s Overture(the music on the piano in the snow is the Star-Spangled Banner, BTW)
The Deal is made. They are officially screwing us hard. The question is, are we going to take it?
Latest breaking news:
http://my.firedoglake.com/sixgill/2011/07/31/debt-deal-arranged/
I already announced my intention to run against Amy Klobuchar. I ran against her in 2006 as the Green Party candidate.
The only real question is, do the progressives in Minnesota have the moral and political courage and fiber to take a stand.
Time will tell.
Larue
Run against them. No safe states, no protecting “progressive” Democrats who are in place to protect the system.
There really is no other option at this stage.
That is the plan in Minnesota anyway.
Me too! Marx predicted a dictatorship of the proletariat. What we got is a dictatorship of Wall Street shitheads. I propose that all Social Security recipients go to their nearest government offices and set up shop outside with tin cups asking for spare change. We could call it a national beg-in. How do you think the Europeans will react? They already think we’re a laughing stock. Since I depend upon Social Security Disability benefits it would be in my self interest, and I could pocket some funny money as well.
California’s Dianne Feinstein — who turns next year 79 — is numero uno. Laughable reels of Election Night 1992 coverage from ABC has David Brinkley referring to her as a liberal. She loves the military industrial complex!
Michigan’s Debbie Stabenow has no substance. She goes along and has nothing worthwhile to consider.
Michael Cavlan,
Anything on Michigan U.S. Senate for Green Party?
This deal among the top 1% to avoid a default and an actual default will gravely harm us -the middle class, poor, unemployed, and seniors.
If I had to choose between a default and this shitty deal, I CHOOSE DEFAULT!
With a default at least we can take the richest 1% of this country down with us!
IMHO, it’s not about beating them but rather about making them think they can be Nader’d. The key is to make a third party push early, and shine a spotlight on how they’re doing or not doing their job.
Imagine what Nader could have done to Obama during the past six weeks, if he had a campaign rolling along.
I would totally love that nickname if I didn’t hate the use of “GOP” (a partisan promotional tag) on general principles. (The above sentence, with the sarcastic quotes, is the first and likely only time I will use it on this site.)
MSFOX, perhaps?
As Krugman wrote, the Obama/Reid position here is considerably to the right of the average Republican voter. Definitely a lot of room, even in the R districts, to punish someone for this bullfuckery.
Ah, my “Obama as Palpatine” analogy! Welcome to the Dark Side, Darth Gringo. :)
Yes. Nancy “impeachment is off the table” Pelosi will fold eventually – it is a matter of time. After all, she crowed about how it is all austerity time now.
The better approach is to realize that change soon is impossible. In the short run there may be a reaction against the Republicans/Tea Baggers so that nearly any Democrat will be elected.
More likely is a gradual change. In either case, taking back the Democratic Party will be a more efficient approach than building new political infrastructure (lists, offices, contacts in the press, Etc.). The party needs replacement locally, statewide, and federally.
Please, please, please…include Medicaid in your list. That seemingly bastard child of a program funds 74% of all the seniors in nursing homes right now and permanent care for the seriously disabled.
Default is clearly unconstitutional. But apart from that, very few or no Congresspersons would prefer default. That’s why I tried to show them that the choice was not between default and voting for the bill. It does no good to keep asserting an obviously losing position, when you can assert one that will give you a better outcome.
In this respect I want to emphasize how important PPCS could be, if its working could be demonstrated even in a limited way, and we could use that as a wedge to make PPCS the preferred method of keeping the Federal purse filled, then we become free to advocate for the things people need without having to answer the question “How are you going to pay for that?” That is so huge. We could do:
State Revenue Sharing and restore those lost jobs, a Federal Job Guarantee,a Social Safety net brought up to European standards with Medicare for All, updating of our infrastructure, conversion of our energy foundations to solar, wind and geothermal, a first class free public educational system, and support for new technical and scientific innovations we’ve been lacking — all without having to face questions of deficits, debts, and problems of affordability.
How about that they believe in the constituents that voted them in, Ms. Hamsher?? That’s why we elected them.
But, if you would rather fellow travel with Ron and Rand Paul, then be my guest.
Anthony
Actually, no, it wasn’t.
That bill was a fake procedural move crafted by the Repubs under 2/3rds suspension rules for propaganda purposes only. Grijalva’s vote there should be rendered meaningless. His opposition to the compromise bill, on the other hand, is genuine.
Stop playing these games, Ms. Hamsher. We see what you are up to.
Anthony
Both House Progressive and House Black Caucuses (Allan West excepted, of course) are now committed NO votes.
Good…I hope they stand their ground, and then some of them start defecting from the Democratic Party. That would be an excellent foundation for a new Left Party (along with labor and the Greens and the antiwar Left, too).
I’d love a primary challenge to Obama…but a full on Independent Presidential campaign by Senator Sanders or some other high-profile prog/Lefty would be so much better..especially if linked to something like Blue America to run TeaKKKluxers, regular GOP’ers, AND DLC’ers alike.
BTW….all props to LGID for his excellent work…and for introducing me to the PPCS concept and MMT.
Anthony