A report on protests at the Tampa convention appearing in the Hill (h/t Lambertstrether) partly focused on views about our economy and financial system of an Occupy protestor named Andrew Speirs. The report says:

Photo: 401k / Flickr
“Protesters with the Occupy movement were also in full force with calls to dismantle the United States’ economic and political system.
“Our economy is mostly electronic,” protester Andrew Speirs told a group of reporters. “We have no backing to our currency. It’s fake money. It’s actually just printed debt by the Federal Reserve bank. And we can’t pay back our national debt; we can only create more debt by printing money.”
Perhaps the report is accurate in portraying Occupy as wanting to dismantle the political system; but let’s immediately note that neither the above quote, nor any others from the report document that conclusion. On the other hand, the quote from Andrew Speirs is very explicit, about his views on the monetary aspects of our economy, and clearly implies that he wants big changes in this area.
Speirs’s views don’t represent Occupy, which is known both for its diversity of views on economic matters, and the agreement of its members on a pro-individual/anti-big corporation view of both politics and economics. However, Speirs isn’t the only Occupy activist with the views he expressed above, and since these views are surely mistaken, I think it’s important that they don’t come to represent Occupy in the future.
First, our economy isn’t mostly electronic because it also includes goods and services, productive activity, and all kinds of real capital, both capital made by people and societies, and natural capital. These days financial capital is predominantly electronic; but that doesn’t make the economy all bits and bytes.
Second, it’s true that we have no commodity backing for our fiat currency. But that doesn’t mean there’s “no backing” for it and that it’s a fake. US currency is “backed” by the strength of the economy that uses the currency for trading, and also by the fact that it’s the only currency acceptable for fulfilling tax obligations to the US Government and generally our state governments as well. Also, our currency can buy whatever is for sale in our domestic economy, and that’s the bottom line, because this ability is all that’s “real,” and has nothing to do with it having any commodity backing such as gold, silver, platinum, oil, or any other concrete material.
Third, to say that our money is “actually just printed debt by the Federal Reserve bank” is very misleading to say the least. Most of our money isn’t “printed” anymore. It’s generated electronically, as Speirs must know since he mistakenly attributed this quality to the whole economy. Also, whether “printed” or created electronically “out of thin air” our currency and bank reserves are “debt” only in the very special sense that when the Government, including the Fed issues money, it is then obligated to accept that money in fulfillment of the tax obligations of the entity offering it. But the Government doesn’t have a debt in the sense that it must pay interest on currency or reserves, though for reasons of its own it may want to pay interest on reserves. So, in this sense, our “debt money” isn’t the same as debt instruments like Treasury Bills, Notes, and Bonds. In addition, the money and reserves issued by the Government are different from Treasury debt instruments in that they are not counted as debt subject to the limit. So, there is no limit on how much of this “debt” the Fed can issue.
Also, it’s not accurate to say that all our money comes from the Fed, or even that it’s ultimately supported by the Fed through settlement transactions and open market operations. The Treasury still retains the legal authority to print a limited amount of currency, and more importantly, the Mint can still create coins with unlimited face value as I’ll explain below.
Fourth, while the private debt overhang from the crash of 2008 and its aftermath is a very serious problem for the US economy; the public debt of the United States subject to the limit isn’t an economic or fiscal problem because it’s extremely misleading to say “. . . we can’t pay back our national debt; we can only create more debt by printing money.” Instead, it’s a political problem. If the political problem can be solved, then the debt subject to the limit can be repaid without economic pain. Here’s a plan for that; demonstrating that the public debt can be repaid without issuing any more debt subject to the limit.
1) The President should use the authority provided by a 1996 law to mint a $60 Trillion coin and deposit it at the Federal Reserve. The deposit will eventually result in nearly $60 Trillion in Proof Platinum Coin Seigniorage (PPCS) profits being credited to the Treasury General Account (TGA).
2) The Treasury should use that money to pay off all the intragovernmental and Federal Reserve-held portion of the current $15.9 Trillion debt subject to the limit. That portion is roughly $6.7 Trillion, or about 42% of the 15.9 Trillion. That action would immediately reduce the debt-to-GDP ratio to 58% of GDP or so.
3) 10% or so of the remaining debt is short-term debt with a term of one-year or less. The Treasury should pay that off as it comes due. So within one year the Treasury will have paid off 52% of the debt. However, another $5.9 Trillion will come due over a ten year period. So by 2022, assuming robust GDP growth the debt-to-GDP ratio would be less than 5%, composed of debt with a maturity of up to 30 years from 2012, assuming that the Fed doesn’t buy up long-term debt and let the Treasury buy the debt back back early. Eventually, after 30 years the debt subject to the limit would fall to zero.
4) the above assumes that Treasury would issue no new debt instruments, but would pay for all future deficit spending appropriated by Congress with coin seigniorage profits. So, that’s it! The debt can be paid back without tanking the economy; either now or in the future.
What about Inflation? Well, we know that the first $6.7 Trillion of pay-off isn’t going to cause inflation because about $1.9 T is going to the Fed and will just sit there until they decide to do QE or something. But they can do the same QE or not whether they have these reserves or not, because they can always create new reserves out of this air anyway. So, transferring reserves to them can have inflationary impact. The remaining 4.8 T of the $6.7 T just goes into Government accounts and isn’t spent until needed anyway, so it won’t cause any additional inflation.
Next, the $1.6 T in Treasury Bills that would be paid off the first year basically come under the heading of QE done by the Treasury, since it’s a swap of the T-bills for reserves. We know from the Fed’s experience, however, that QE over a year’s time of that volume has little inflationary impact in an economy like the one we have now. The reason is that even though it adds reserves to the banking system, it adds very little to the net financial assets of the T-bill holders, which is also why the impact of the Fed’s QE on recovery has been so miniscule.
Now, how about the $5.8 T in debt that would be paid back over a 10 year period? The volume paid back each year would still amount to relatively small amounts of QE and would still add very little to net financial assets (only interest payments); so there’s no reason to believe this would be inflationary either. The final $1.2 T in bond debt would be gradually paid over a 20 year period and would hardly create a ripple in the money supply of our much expanded economy, so here too using coin seigniorage rather than debt to enable deficit spending make no inflationary impact.
So, finally, we come to the possible inflationary impact of using coin seigniorage profits for deficit spending. Here we do have the Treasury adding real financial assets to the economy in the form of bank reserves. And this can be inflationary if deficit spending exceeds the productive capacity of our economy. However, I want to emphasize very strongly that there’s no reason to believe that deficit spending accompanied by debt issuance is any less inflationary than is deficit spending using coin seigniorage profits. To believe that it is you have to believe that reserves are more inflationary than Treasuries. But the theory supporting that view, the quantity theory of money, was shown to be false by Keynes in the 1930s, and, the empirical evidence available since suggests, if anything, that Treasuries are more inflationary than reserves since they pay higher interest rates.
The Occupy movement is the most important event to happen in politics in many years having the potential to re-orient the political parties toward the needs of people and away from the demands of the big corporations and the extremely rich currently buying dominance in our politics. Even though the movement is experiencing setbacks in the face of unconstitutional repression by local authorities aided by the Federal Government, Occupy still remains our best hope for a bottom-up movement that can revitalize our democracy.
It would be a shame however, if this movement became motivated by ideas about the monetary system that involve fundamental misunderstandings about how things do and can work under the current structure of our laws and under the Constitution. Our politics are now shot through with false ideas about our modern money system, and how we ought to be implementing government spending and fiscal policy.
It’s very important that Occupy not fall victim to ideas and theories offered by either deficit hawks or doves, or by “gold bugs” or other commodity money or fixed exchange rate advocates. We won’t bring social and economic justice and revitalized democracy to the United States by embracing the kind of ideas about our fiat money system expressed by Speirs in that short quote. To do that, to break the power of the corporations, the financial sector, and the very rich, Occupy will need an understanding of money and the Government’s power to place it in the service of public purpose, that’s as close to the truth as we can get, and right now that means it will need to know Modern Monetary Theory (MMT) very, very well.
(Cross-posted from Correntewire.com.)



73 Comments

Money that represents a promise is only as valuable as a promise. How many promises you got?
The promise is that the money will be accepted for payment of taxes. I think the Government can fulfill that promise as long as the Constitution survives.
We have a debt base economy. It only works when the economy continuously expands. Which cannot happen indefinitely in a finite world with finite resources. Therefore it will fail and collapse at one point.
We are very close to that point right now.
The problem is that you obviously want to come up with a way to continue this fraudulent system – which I am guessing you do very well under – which is why I generally pay little attention to you.
What constitution? You maybe implying the one that has shit all on it from wiping there asses with it.The make believe money system will die on it’s own when it has no more lies to feed it.
Good post. Thanks letsgetitdone…
I agree with that.
Claw back the money from the bankers- but that’s not going to happen because the bankers have their hands up Governments backsides. They are the government.
Here’s George Monbiots video, what “After Capitalism” means.
We’ve already got keynes for the bankers and gold standard for us. We’ll be forced to pay for the bonds or the trillion dollar coins by getting rid of SS and Medicare.
or rather MMT for them and Mises for us.
The UK runs this system and has no Constitution. It has also run without a Constitution for a long time.
I have to question the inflationary aspects of coin Seigniorage.
The US Debt can be considered interest bearing money, not a debt in the sense of you or I having debt. If this be true, then the exchange of non-interest bearing money for interest bearing money could be deflationary, because theoretically the interest paid could be retired, and the interest spending eliminated.
In practice, I believe our dear beloved leaders would find new and interesting way to spend the interest saved, on about a dozen new carrier groups.
Thanks. Rec’d.
When Reaganonomics was first introduced, it was promised that the money of the wealthy would trickle down on us. But, it’s not trickling down. They aren’t trickling much at all.
So, I propose that we catheterize them with 1950′s tax rates to get that trickle-down flowing as promised.
I certainly agree that to the extent our money is created with an obligation to pay interest on it at a later date, the economy will have to expand at least enough to cover the interest. So, it would be be better if we could keep interest rates really low and perhaps even arrange for the interest to be collected by Government which would then spend an equal amount into the economy.
I also think that our resources are certainly finite; but some like intellectual capital and social capital and energy from renewable source are less finite than others. So, which resources that we are growing short will limit the further expansion of our economy in you view? And why do you think we are running out of these rapidly enough so that we are at the point of economic collapse?
Sorry, which “system” do you think I’m interesting in maintaining? And what aspect of it do you think I want to maintain?
All I’m saying is that the Constitution gives the Government the authority to create unlimited fiat money, and that when the Government spends that money into the economy it is, at a minimum creating tax credits. It cannot refuse to accept those in payment of taxes unless it changes the fiat currency.
Thank you, DD.
SKF, I’m sorry, but your comment is just so much nonsense.
The $60 T costs nothing to mint and the credits it and other coins it can create demonstrate that we will never run of out of money for our entitlements. In fact, the $60 T coin would create pressure for expanding and enhancing SS and also for providing enhanced Medicare for All, HR 676, among many other good progressive measures.
Again, SKF, that’s nonsense. Why would MMT be disposed to help bankers? Why not take a look at this one and find out what MMT is really about. In brief, MMT is economics for the public purpose. It is profoundly Galbraithian in character, and is the most viable economic approach to realizing FDR’s unfinished business, his second bill of rights. If you don’t know that, then you don’t know the first thing about MMT and its developers.
The UK has no written constitution. But it’s unwritten constitution certainly recognizes that the Government must UK currencyc in payment of taxes.
Other than that I agree with everything. I particularly agree that the repayment of all debt is likely to be deflationary and that deficit spending without issuing debt will also be deflationary because it will drive the Federal Funds Rate down to zero. I think that’s good, because I like very low interest rates. They’re good for small business and bad for usury.
Recommended lets. I started going down the road about why we should even tackle the so called “debt” arguments using the means you decribed. Perhaps however it may be easier to sell to the masses initially than the broader scope and implications modern money and monetary operations. This is not to be condescending but I have gone over MMT with many but some still come back to me with myths we are constantly inundated with.
Thank you, wigwam.
I like 1950s tax rates too; but let’s do it without all the loopholes they had then. Their effective tax rate was much lower, which was one of the things that led to “reform” in the 1960s.
Thanks psa. One of the reasons why I like the $60 T coin so much is that doing it would teach the lesson that we can never run of money in a very dramatic way. That’s what progressives need so conservatives can never cry poor mouth anymore but have to debate real issues.
After that lesson is learned, we can get to the real MMT-related issues like the need for deficit spending, the impact of particular deficit spending alternatives in terms of public purpose and the issue of when to expect demand-pull inflation and how to combat it, and when to expect cost-push inflation and how to combat that.
Thanks letsgetitdone,
it seems like a lot of people have developed a very confederate view of economy. And that’s unfortunate because we know very well that such idea’s are horribly dysfunctional.
Andrew Speirs couldn’t be more wrong when he says that “We have no backing to our currency”. If Mr Speirs wants physical examples of what backs our currency then I’d point to all of the physical improvements which we have made…. the roads, bridges, canals, railways, schools, hospitals and the skills of the American workforce.
We agree. The UK has a body of common law. Which can be changed by the whim of parliament.
The purpose of the US Constitution was to try to remove the whims of rulers from the equation. I’m not sure it worked so well.
We’ve had 220+ years of money driving lawyers to look for and exploit meanings and loopholes, and create new meanings (Citizens United), decisions which are so far from “original intent” as to be ludicrous.
Here is the best thing I’ve found on that matter. I’m still thinking about it, however.
But they have already shit on the constitution. What the fuck do they care about making money in anyway they chose. I went to my local market and saw a 8pack of ears of corn for $10 today. It’s going to be a long winter.
This comment would perhaps be be more appropriate at
http://my.firedoglake.com/wigwam/2012/03/12/s-i-g-t-x-m-revised/
Questions were asked in another blog about the meaning of various terms in the sectoral balance which I answered operationally using BEA data. The data is from the web site
http://www.bea.gov/national/nipaweb/Ni_FedBeaSna/DownSS2.asp?3Place=N
with download of the first xls file.
The xls spreadsheets are arranged as a single spreadsheet per section. Each table in the section is on a tab within the spreadsheet.
a) Federal Deficits – Net Imports = Net Private Savings, is strictly true. See fig4 of
http://pragcap.com/understanding-modern-monetary-syste
If this equation is summed over all years, we get
b) Cumulative Federal Deficits – Cumulative Net Imports = Cumulative Private Savings, or,
c) Cumulative govt “deficit” = national wealth.
The net worth of the govt sector is the entry FL312090095 in sheet A007 Ann. The net worth external is FL262090095 and is given in A009 Ann, S. 9 a. Rest of the world which is the external account.
Cumulative private savings is Peoples’ wealth which is defined as the net worth of household and nonprofit sectors of the economy (FL152090005 in sheet A003). from
http://pshakkottai.wordpress.com/2012/07/31/cumulative-deficit-vs-household-net-worth/
The plot shows that b) is true.
“Cumulative private savings” is the “net worth of household and nonprofit sectors.”
“ The term “net private savings” is also rather deceptive. As far as I’ve been able to determine, it was invented by Modern Monetary Theory (MMT).” is a comment by another blogger which I am answering.
Another proof of MMT.
http://pshakkottai.wordpress.com/2012/03/30/another-proof-of-mmt-4/
This is a plot of gross national wealth on the x axis plotted vs. the same quantity in the same year minus govt deficit minus External balance. The years start at 1960 and end at 2011.The plot combines BEA Section S A007 S.7 a Federal Govt and A003 S.3 .a. Households and Nonprofit Institutions Serving Households. (FL152090005 minus FL312090095 minus FL262090095) is the value along the y axis which agrees with the household net worth FL152090005.
Each (deficit plus net export) adds to peoples’ wealth. The dollars are current values not adjusted for inflation. This line is much more straight because no inflation adjustments to fixed dollars were involved. This is a proof of
a) Federal Deficits – Net Imports = Net Private Savings
Another way of thinking about the plot is as a plot of actual wealth on the x axis compared to the predicted wealth calculated using the MMT equations of balance which is consistent with whatever balance BEA is using. We can conclude that BEA is also using MMT accounting.
Net private savings is defined in
“ Government surpluses must equal non-government deficits (with no external account):
The bottom row of the Current Transactions Matrix indicates that government savings (surplus) or tax revenue net of government spending and payment of interest on bonds ((T – G –ibt-1Bt-1) are equal to the non-government sector’s dis-savings (deficit = pDK – Fu – Sh),” with terms defined in the current transactions matrix described in “Stock-flow consistent macro models
Posted on Tuesday, September 8, 2009 by bill” at
http://bilbo.economicoutlook.net/blog/?p=4870
There is a typo in the table. In the banks column Dividends should be –Fb. Subscript t-1 refers to the previous period and ” i” is the interest rate.
“For the household sector, the sources of funds include wages, interest on deposits, and distributed dividends from banks and firms. Uses of funds include consumption and payment of taxes on household income.
For firms, sources of funds include revenue from the sale of goods and services to households and government, as well as that component derived from the sale capital goods to other firms. These funds are used for investment, the payment of corporate taxes, the payment of interest on borrowings, and the distribution of dividends.
Banks receive interest on loans and issued bank bills, and use their funds for payment of interest on deposits and the distribution of profits.
By summing across the rows for the flow-of-funds accounts of banks, households and firms, it is apparent that all transactions cancel out with the exception of the interest paid on bank bills by government, the payment of taxes by firms and households, and the receipt of revenue by firms for the sale of goods and services to the government.
However, and very significantly, these components are all vertical transactions between the government and non-government sectors. That is they do not net to zero but create/destroy net financial assets in the non-government sector.”
Depreciation or appreciation enters only in the taxation. It does not enter directly in the Transfer Matrix.
Regarding another comment “I believe in a debt based monetary system (which we have), you need to increase debt in order to increase money.” In all horizontal transactions, debt and savings cancel. But in vertical transactions, money is created (or destroyed by taxes) and change financial assets in the non-government sector. The federal government does not create or destroy dollars by borrowing. It creates dollars by spending and it destroys dollars by taxing.
“In summary, the words “debt,” “owe,” “borrow,” and “lend,” when describing personal (monetarily non-sovereign) finances, involve the creation and destruction of money. Those identical words, when describing federal finances, involve nothing more than an equal exchange. No money is created or destroyed.” From
http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/12/24/why-federal-debt-is-not-debt-and-federal-borrowing-is-not-borrowing/
Thanks captjj. Long time no see. Of course, your comment is very much to the point.
Yes, we do agree. And the bottom line here is that fiat money is tax credits, and that the US Government will never repudiate that use of fiat money as homeroid implied.
homeroid this reply has nothing to with the issue, which is whether or not your fiat money will be accepted as tax credits when you pay your taxes this year. The answer to this question is that it will be and it is nonsense to suggest otherwise.
Thanks for an excellent analytical comment. Other references on the “debt is not debt” is not debt theme: here, here, and here.
Hmmmm. If I buy a bond from the Treasury at auction paying by check, existing bank dollars flow from my account to one belonging to the Treasury. If I subsequently sell that bond to a bank, it pays me in bank dollars, freshly created from thin air.
And, if the Treasury were to sell that bond directly to the bank (without me as a middle man) those same bank dollars would be created. And the Treasury would subsequently spend them in payment of the government’s bills.
Those dollars would subsequently be destroyed when the bond was paid off or sold. But in the case of a sale, new bank dollars would be created if the buyer were a bank.
Hmmmm. If I buy a bond from the Treasury at auction paying by check, existing bank dollars flow from my account to one belonging to the Treasury. If I subsequently sell that bond to a bank, it pays me in bank dollars, freshly created from thin air.(If you take a loan, money is created by fractional reserve. If you pay the bank it just marks up your checking account. If you sell a bond to the bank, the bank gives you existing dollars. It has less reserves and a T bond. No dollars have been created or destroyed.)
And, if the Treasury were to sell that bond directly to the bank (without me as a middle man) those same bank dollars would be created.(No, because money is created only during a loan.) And the Treasury would subsequently spend them in payment of the government’s bills.( If the T bond is bought by the bank directly, the treasury exchanges dollars for a T bond, as before.)
LGID,
I’ve followed the discussion on the platinum coins for some time. I wish Obama would bring it up to at least point out the ridiculousness of the annual “debt ceiling crisis” the Republicans insist on creating. You know, educate the public: “you think this sounds silly, kinda gimmicky; well, that’s exactly what this phony crisis they’ve created is. And guess what, it’s legal” O. won’t do that, though. He hasn’t the imagination or the sense of political theatre.
I think a more productive avenue of applying pressure is insisting that he invoke the 14th amendment. Several people have suggested it, from the Chucks (Grassley and Schumer) to that DLC multi-millionaire Bill Clinton. It would seem bipartisany and corporately kosher for him to go that route. The only reason I can think of for O. not using the 14th is his apparent fealty to Pete Peterson. Obama needs to be flushed out on this issue. If he loses cover he might change his tune.
When a bank buys an asset or makes a loan, it debits current-assets and credits the seller’s or borrower’s account. There are no other accounts that get credited or debited. Specifically, there is “existing-dollars” account involved in this transaction.
Not quite:
To elaborate. Loans are but one form of equity that banks deal in. Essentially banks are pawn shops for securities of all sorts: equities, derivatives, and debt: loans, bonds, notes, etc. They buy, sell, and make loans against securities. And they pay in freshly issued credit, which the government recognizes as cash.
So fiat currency is a good thing? Paper backed by a promise of the government? And we should continue to slave away at “paying back” the national debt which….oh by the way just passed 16 trillion? Which I guess doesn’t take into account inflation? And if you’re not into inflation, can I state that it took the U.S. government 200 years to accumulate its first trillion of debt…..and drum roll….it took them a whopping 286 DAYS to accumulate the last trillion on that little tiny tab.
“At an average interest rate of 2.130%, Uncle Sam will shuffle $340 billion out the door just in interest payments this year….” “China owns so much US debt that the interest income they receive from the Treasury Department is nearly enough to fund their entire military budget.”
You can check out the previous quoted article at zerohedge, here.
But ya, carry on, nose down and make those payments kids!!!
Here’s a more recent reference, this one by Nick Rowe:
Making a loan is the equivalent of buying a loan agreement from the borrower. And buying treasuries is the equivalent of buying loan agreements, say from other banks.
The point is that banks buy and sell assets and pay in freshly created bank credit against which checks can immediately be written.
The bank can only use its assets to buy another asset (the bond). So, it can’t create money for that purpose, unless the Bank is the Fed. It could borrow from another bank to get the money to buy the Bond, and this transaction would create new money. But generally, banks wouldn’t do that. So, I think you’re mistaken here.
If the Treasury sells a bond to a bank, again the bank must use already existing dollar assets to buy the Bond, or it must borrow the money, which again produces both a liability and a money asset to buy the bond with. That’s exactly the point of doing debt issuance when the Government wants to deficit spend. The mainstream believes that the money the Treasury will create in the private sector is offset by the money it takes from it when it sells a bond. The mainstream believes in the Quantity Theory of Money, which is why they want deficit spending to be money neutral. MMT however, believes that whether or not the deficit spending is money neutral the result is creation of a net financial asset in the private sector. If a bond is sold then the NFA left in the private sector is a bond. If there’s no debt issuance, then the NFA left is the reserves created through deficit spending.
MMT economists also believe that NFAs in the form of bonds are more inflationary than NFAs in the form of reserves because Bonds can be leveraged more than once loan processes, which as you know are the processes by which private banks create new money. So, MMT says that in our present banking system there will be more inflation if we continue to rely on debt financing of deficits than there would be if we just printed the money.
Again, I don’t think banks can create new money for themselves whenever they want to buy an asset. That’s against the rules.
The banks creates the money first out of thin air when it lends to you. Then, if it needs reserves to cover its reserve requirements it either borrows from the overnight market at very low rates, or it goes to the Fed discount window which always provides the necessary reserves at rates a bit higher than the overnight market. See here and here.
In the last reference go to question 3, and Bill Mitchell’s answer to it. Also note the links to his other posts at the bottom of that answer.
Also, for those interested Bill has some good stuff on sectoral balances in earlier questions and answers in the same post.
Hi wilvick, glad you’ve been following the PPCS discussions. I think if Obama called attention to the $60 T possibility and said it proves we’re not running out of money, then the Rs would just make fun of him and try to change the law so he couldn’t do that. On the other hand, if he just did it, started paying off huge quantities of public debt and pointed to what he did, saying it proves 1) We’re not running out of money and 2) creating money to do good things isn’t inflationary. Then people would believe those because he didn’t just tell them about it; but also showed them. The “showing” is very important to winning the propaganda war which would ensue.
On the 14th Amendment, I believe he might win a debt ceiling fight using it, and that Court would be reluctant to get involved. However, that just gets rid of the debt ceiling; it’s not a real political game changer. What I want is that big game changer. See here and here.
Note especially the speech in the last reference.
I don’t think they can create money in the act of buying securities. That would mean that banks could create assets for themselves without corresponding liabilities. It would be a violation of accounting rules. I think you need a more recent reference on this point preferably in the law itself. A nearly 50 year old quote from Patman isn’t enough to establish the point.
wigwam, I don’t believe this. I think the Fed can do this; but no member banks can.
Zerohedge is mostly full of crap; stop reading it your mind will just get poisoned.
Apart from that chebetts, please don’t comment if you’re not going to read a diary before commenting. The diary proposes minting a $60 T coin and using the coin seigniorage profits to pay off the Federal debt subject to the limit without issuing any new debt. Large proportions of that national debt would be paid off during the first year. Most of it would be paid off within 10 years driving the debt-to-GDP ratio down to single digits, and after 30 years there would be no debt outstanding.
So, this:
and whole shtick you gave us following it are irrelevant to this diary.
Do banks create money when they buy a desk — or a ballpoint pen?
wigwam, I think Nick’s wrong about this. If we think of it from an accounting point of view,then we have yo ask: “when the bank writes a check in payment for the asset it wants to buy, the bank is tendering a liability, a credit instrument which it must make good. Eventually, the liability has to be settled with an asset, already existing high velocity money. That has to come from banks assets either pre-existing or acquired by borrowing the money. I think the key thing here is that the bank can’t dig into its reserves at the Fed to settle this and it also can’t go to the discount window, because it cannot lend money to itself. So, the bottom line is that a commercial bank cannot create new money by buying a security.
Banking is a really good business; but it isn’t that good a business!
Banks only create money when they lend. period.
Maybe folks are confusing (a) the situation in which they lend against a security — which creates money — vs. (b) actually buying the security — in which they don’t create money.
I’m sorry for coming off as “square” but I can’t wrap my head around minting a single coin for 60 trillion, and whatever that would mean toward paying down debt. I did read your diary, I guess my mind needs a smack or something.
So this single coin of yours, where would you put it? Would you tell anyone? Would you actually mint one or just say that you did?
I find it interesting that you think zerohedge will poison my brain. It’s kinda like controlling a conversation, you leave out a lot of good stuff on the edges.
The debt is unsustainable. The current way we all live / pay for is unsustainable, minting a single coin will not change how people respect their Earth, nor will it change how we poison ourselves….without the help of zerohedge, or our loving government.
Good luck to you, I support your effort in coming up with new ideas around anything that we currently have, but to me, we have to get down to the very root of all before we can start “rebuilding.”
If so, why can our government borrow at near zero interest?
The power to fund loans with bank credit and the power to purchase other financial assets with bank credit are logically equivalent.
If a bank can purchase financial assets with bank credit, it can purchase a potential borrower’s loan agreement, which is an asset after all, with bank credit. And that is equivalent to having funded a loan to him with bank credit.
Conversely, if a bank can fund loans with bank credit, then they can loan me my asking price for my Treasury bond, which I put up as collateral, on terms that lead to an instant default on my part. They foreclose on my bond, and I have the credit in my account or withdraw it in cash, whichever I choose.
The point is that the power to loan bank credit and the power to purchase with bank credit are equivalent.
In response to econobuzz at #45:
That’s a good question. They are supposed to invest only in “securities”: debt, equities, and derivatives. And the local Federal Reserve banks are supposed to enforce that.
Per “U.S. Code Title 12, Chapter 3, Subchapter 7, Section 301. Powers and duties of board of directors; suspension of member bank for undue use of bank credit”. Law.cornell.edu. June 22, 2010. Retrieved August 29, 2011.
Banks don’t “purchase” securities with bank credit.
They either purchase the security — in which case, money is not created.
Or
They loan against securities (or any collateral) — and do create money.
When banks pay their janitor, for instance, they do not create money.
How banks make purchases according to William F. Hummel:
Here A, L, and R presumably refer to “assets,” “liabilities,” and “reserves,” respectively.
Per the Wikipedia:
This is confusing. Here are 3 text book examples from
http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/~hfoad/e111su08/Chapter13.doc
1. If the Fed sells $2 million of bonds to the First National Bank, what happens to reserves and the monetary base? Use T-accounts to explain your answer.
If we assume that First National Bank pays for the bonds out of reserves, then there will be a $2 million decrease in reserves at First National Bank and a $2 million increase in securities. At the Fed, there is a decline of $2 million in reserve liabilities and a $2 million decline in securities (assets).
First National Bank
Assets
Reserves -$2 million
Securities +$2 million
Liabilities zero
Federal Reserve
Assets
Securities -$2 million
Liabilities
Reserves -$2 million
The monetary base is defined as currency in circulation plus reserves. The $2 million drop in reserves means that the monetary base fell by $2 million.
2. If the Fed sells $2 million of bonds to Irving the Investor, who pays for the bonds with a briefcase filled with currency, what happens to reserves and the monetary base? Use T-accounts to explain your answer.
This transaction causes currency in circulation to fall by $2 million. Since the entire transaction was carried out in cash, there is no change in bank reserves. The monetary base still falls by $2 million, though.
Irving the Investor
Assets
Currency -$2 million
Securities +$2 million
Liabilities zero
Federal Reserve
Assets
Securities -$2 million
Liabilities
Currency -$2 million
7. Suppose that the Fed buys $2 million of bonds from the First National Bank. If the First National Bank and all other banks use the resulting increase in reserves to purchase securities only and not make loans, what will happen to checkable deposits?
This is a somewhat tricky question in that you are not told who First National Bank purchases securities from. The Fed’s purchase causes reserves in the banking system to rise by $2 million. First National then uses this $2million to purchase securities (presumably from someone other than the Fed!) Suppose they buy the security from an individual. This means that there is now $2million more currency in circulation.
Suppose that $2 million is deposited in the bank. The bank then places a required fraction of this $2 million in reserves (based on the reserve requirement) and uses the remainder to purchase a security. With a 10% reserve requirement, the bank will buy $1,800,000 worth of securities. The person who sold these securities will now have $1,800,000 to deposit in the bank. They do so and total deposits are now $2million at the first bank and $1,800,000 at the second bank = $3,800,000. The second bank places 10% of the $380,000 in reserve and uses the remaining $1,620,000 to buy securities from another individual. That individual deposits the proceeds from her sale into her bank and the process continues. Eventually through the process of multiple deposit creation, the total value of deposits created will be $2 million * (1/rr) = $2 million * (1/0.1) = $20 million. And banks have altogether bought $20 million worth of securities and sold them to various individuals. Individuals hold securities and the deposits are in banks.
The Fed purchase of $2 million from the bank causes 10 times that amount sold to various people.
Federal Reserve
Assets
Securities +$2 million-$20 million
Liabilities
Currency +$2 million
reserves -20 million
The last example is my completion of 7. Any comments?
Suppose a bank buys my Treasury bond. Consider the following three ways of paying me:
1) cash
2) cashier’s check
3) credit in my account.
My claim is that regardless of which way, the money supply increases by the price of the bond.
1) Suppose the bank reaches into its vault and pays me cash. Recall that vault cash is not part of the money supply. But the minute it is in my hands, it does become part of the money supply.
2) Suppose the bank hands me a cashier’s check for the price of the bond. I will deposit it into my account say at some other bank, where upon it becomes a demandable deposit and thus part of the money supply.
3) Suppose the bank credits my checking account at that bank. Again, the nation’s tally of demandable deposits has instantly increased by the prices of the bond.
QED
The 60 Trillion coin will never happen. Plus, it would greatly threaten the capitalist owners’ confidence and probably would result in even more governmental corruption and maybe even a race to win the rest of PPCS credit money pork.
It would be even more destabilizing. Plus, if too much cash gets concentrated, inflation could be acceptable as a means of competition.
The policy of paying the government’s bills with Treasury-issued money could be very helpful at a much less grandiose scale. It would help if even a portion of our deficit were covered with Treasury money rather than borrowing, and it would prevent the GOP from using the debt limit to hold the economy hostage.
chebetts,
You actually mint two $60 T coins. One is kept in a lockup at Treasury. The other is deposited in the US Mint’s Public Enterprise Fund(PEF) at the NY Fed. Then the following happens.
1) The Fed credits the deposit of the coin because it’s legal tender and they are the Government’s banker. Result: the Fed using it’s authority to create unlimited reserves to place $60 T in the PEF.
2) The Fed takes the coin and places it in a vault. It becomes a $60 T asset on its balance sheet, and remains in its vault indefinitely.
3) The Treasury uses its legal authority to sweep the seigniorage profits out of the PEF into the Treasury General Account (TGA) Since the cost of the coin is roughly $3500 to produce; the result of this action is to place $60 T minus $3500 in the TGA
4) The President would announce to the world that the coin was minted in order to remove any debt ceiling crises and to repay all US debt subject to the limit as it falls due. He would also offer a justification in a speech. For a fuller explanation see here.
Well, it was you who appealed to the authority of zerohedge. I was only making the point that it has no authority with me, since it seems to be a haven for “gold bugism”
Clearly, the diary showed it can be paid; therefore it’s not unsustainable.
Actually, the big coin might change how people respect the earth. the $60 T will disarm conservative and Democratic deficit hawks, progressive politics will become more important and more successful, and it’s the progressives who will push sustainability. The more political power they have the more we will turn to healing the earth and to programs that do that.
I agree. But I think there’s more than one root and that the silly idea that we have fiat currency solvency problems has been a very important root of our failure to meet most of our problems over the past 40 years.
Banks don’t buy or lend reserves. Period.
When a bank buys a security that already exists, they are not creating an asset and emitting a liability which is money — increasing the money supply. Only their portfolio mix changes.
The person who sells the security also experiences a portfolio change. They don’t have more money than they had before. They have exchanged an asset for cash. Period.
If, on the other hand, a bank LENDS against a security, they create an asset — an IOU — AND a liability — let’s say in the form of a checking account for the borrower — which IS money. The borrower has surrendered a signature on a promissory note in exchange for MONEY.
In the second instance, the bank has created an asset and a liability — which IS money — out of thin air.
Meant to write: Banks don’t borrow or lend reserves FROM OR TO INDIVIDUALS. Period.
wigwam, The Hummel quote states things inaccurately.
1) Bank issues a Bank draft: This is a liability; so liabilities go up at the point of issuance of the draft, regardless of where the money is deposited.
2) Upon deposit in the issuing bank liabilities remain the same; but the issuing bank’s cash assets and reserves go down.
3) Upon deposit in another bank, the liability is extinguished, and the issuing bank’s cash assets and reserves go down.
They can, however, cash reserves (and vice versa) and then deal with individuals via cash (or credit).
Agreed; depositing the draft indeed extinguishes it as a liability.
BTW, I’ve posted something that addresses the matter of how banks pay for assets.
Hmmmmm. It’s my understanding from various sources that banks lend and borrow reserves to and from each other on a regular basis. See this for example:
i think you’re good up to 7. I think that 7. is a weird application of the money multiplier. However, I think the money multiplier is a myth. See here and here.
Well, let’s see!
Vault cash is part of bank reserves, however, and also banks assets. So, the the bank pays with vault cash, it hasn’t increased either net financial assets or bank reserves in the system.
Right! But again, the bank has increased neither net financial assets nor bank reserves!
Right, but again there’s no increase in NFA or reserves in the banking system.
When we started this discussion originally you talked about new money being created by private banks when they buy assets. Now you’re talking about new money being added to the money supply. Those are two different things. In your examples the bank hasn’t created any more money. Instead it’s used existing vault cash or other existing reserves to add money to the bond seller’s account.
Ludwig, this is just speculation. Show the causal chains involved for these things to happen!
It would be helpful, but it wouldn’t fundamentally change the political situation, the way the $60 T coin would. The object of the game is to break the deficit hawk. A Trillion Dollar coin will only begin to do that; and it will give them for lobbying and perhaps repealing the 1996 law. On the other hand, minting the $60 T coin results in a fait accompli. If the hawks don’t like it, then they can stick it where the sun don’t shine! The money’s in the TGA and that’s all she wrote. Game over! A new game starts up!
That’s it! Plain and simple!
Right!
It’s the same as with a loan. The banking system gets an asset that it didn’t have before: the loan agreement in the case of a loan, and the bond I’m selling in the case at hand. Meanwhile, the banking system incurred a new liability (the credit in an account or the cashier’s check) or incurred a decrement to their total reserves.
Why is it okay to call the payment for the loan “new money” but not the payment for the bond?
Good luck getting any likely administration to present Congress with a grandiose fait accompli that upsets the 1%. Believe me, I’d love to see it happen, but I think the chances are very small.
On the other hand, it might not be beyond no-drama Obama to spend a trickle of Treasury money to avoid defaulting or wasting another $1.3 billion on GOP debt-limit theatrics.
Chain of causation. Hah. You go first.
BTW, Professor, a technical question. In Wynn Godley’s sectoral balance equation, where does the income go in the transaction of buying a government bond?