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This is a crosspost from Daily Kos.
A few days ago, some of you may remember that I linked to a story about a school district which has been imposing prayer on students and people attending school ceremonies in direct violation of established law. (Please note that this is a link to the original post which has been much updated from the original, including the names of the family involved even the name of their minor child. I repost the link now with permission from the parents.) What I didn’t make clear until a day later at least is that the principals involved are dear friends of mine and I’ve been watching their struggles with a district which has deliberately and systematically tried to impose their belief structure on the entire community, regardless of individual desires. Since that first hearing when they won an injunction against prayer, things have turned around but I’ll let me friend tell you:
My son will not be attending his high school graduation today. Yesterday, the 5th Circuit ruled that open prayer, to include asking the audience to stand and pray with school district officials, is A-OK in American public schools now.
Having been forced to participate in countless religious activities at school events for 4 years, and having failed for 3 years to garner the help of district officials in crafting an inclusive ceremony respectful to ALL students and attendees, my son filed suit to prevent these prayers taking place at his graduation. He was granted an injunction, then lost on appeal by the district and Tx AG Abbott.
The Castroville community, as seen on FOX last night, now plans to bus in all manner of people with no interest in seeing a beloved child graduate, but with definite interest in creating a media and Christian spectacle.
Rather than protect the privacy of minor students in their charge, Medina Valley ISD officials elected instead to provide my son’s full name to the media. Obviously we will not be attending this abomination of a grad ceremony as my the community hatred toward my family has been intense.
What a shameful, disgraceful display from a public school.
Note: I’ll be hosting this conversation as my friend is busy hosting the diary over at Daily Kos. I’m in communication with her so I can answer questions with just a bit of a lag time.
Note: Their lawsuit was filed with the help of Americans United For the Separation of Church and State.
M
53 Comments
Thank you so much for crossposting this, Peggy. I tried but don’t know how, hahaha. You’re a dear for helping.
No prob. Super happy to help. :)
Thank you for this, Margaret, and good on you for being here even as you juggle a new job. I was kind of wondering if you still had time to write, recommended.
The Fifth Circuit sucks.
How would this case fare in the current US Supreme Court, and will your friend pursue it this far? (do not have to answer)
PS: Love the first tag!
In today’s American theocratic, fascist state, the constitutional requirement for a meaningful, deliberate separation of church and state is an embarrassing, inconvenient, outdated relic of Enlightenment idealism.
The repressive, destructive forces of American Christian religious fanaticism are forever busy fomenting the destruction of constitutional religious freedom.
‘Then they came for the atheists,
and there was no one left to speak out for me.’
Adapted from Niemoller.
I know that they and the AU are pursuing it. And now considering action against the district for releasing a minor child’s name without permission.
Yeah, who does that? Who releases a minor child’s name without permission?
Even in published court opinions, a minor child’s initials and not name are used.
This is indefensible, seems to me.
IMO the Christians should be the ones protesting this. They should be the very people who believe in freedom of religion and that it was never taught that religion had to be shoved down peoples’ throats or into their faces for that matter. I don’t know how others feel but organized religion really turns me off now.
The Medina Valley Independent School District apparently.
You know those same “Christians” would be very incensed if one of the prayers offered was an Islamic one.
Oh, of course. Remember how they freaked out when Keith Ellison was sworn in on Thomas Jefferson’s copy of the Koran?
Um, so much for “Little Alsace of Texas.” I suggest folks do a little investigative work and politely contact the local, county and state historical/museum/library/archive/arts societies of their choice (here’s a resources page for South Central Texas that includes Medina County). Let local curators and preservationists know that you find it very difficult to be a patron to historic Castroville and Medina County. These folks have ties to the chambers of commerce and will apply pressure as well. Start the ripple effect!
A message from the original author:
I, Margaret, am going to be attending the family’s private graduation celebration for the brave young man.
Right-e-o, Felix. Agreed. I don’t think religion/prayer has any place in a public school. It even bothers me when they have the prayer when the House convenes.
There, I said it, and I’m a Christian.
Thanks for the post, Peggy.
(It’s not 10:45 yet, but it’s getting there.)
Thanks demi. :)
Good on you. And, now you actually have a few pennies to buy gas and be able to be a supporter and advocate for the issues you believe in. Yay.
What I learned from trying to debate with Christians (which is a oxymoron) is that they dont believe that there is an separation of church and state. They instead believe that there is freedom to go to any church you want. They go on to deny that there is anything at all to do with the separation of church and state in the Constitution.
They think just because that phrase inst in the Constitution that it isnt legal. They entirely dispute the First Amendment. Which makes one wonder what other obvious facts from the Constitution that they dispute.
Heres a court describing the facts very well. Thats sounds like something that could be useful in this situation.
Everson v Board (330 US 1 [1947])
“The ‘establishment of religion’ clause of the First Amendment means at least this: Neither a state nor the Federal Government can set up a church. Neither can pass laws which aid one religion, aid all religions, or prefer one religion over another. Neither can force nor influence a person to go to or to remain away from church against his will or force him to profess a belief or disbelief in any religion. No person can be punished for entertaining or professing religious beliefs or disbeliefs, for church attendance or non-attendance. No tax in any amount, large or small, can be levied to support any religious activities or institutions, whatever they may be called, or whatever from they may adopt to teach or practice religion. Neither a state nor the Federal Government can, openly or secretly, participate in the affairs of any religious organizations or groups and vice versa. In the words of Jefferson, the clause against establishment of religion by law was intended to erect ‘a wall of separation between Church and State.’” http://www.usconstitution.net/consttop_reli.html
Who are the money people behind this?
No idea but fundies always seem to be ready to crawl out of the woodwork when situations like this arise, don’t they?
Maybe you can find out when you go. You’re good at fact finding. Bat your baby blues.
I’m not going to the graduation. I’m going to the private party the family is having. They’re very good friends of mine.
At least two-thirds of the country today doesn’t care what’s right or what is or isn’t in the Constitution. They seem to regard their personal feelings and ideology as sacred (pardon the pun). Tolerance is rapidly becoming a thing of the past. I’ve spent a lifetime remaining politely silent as people prayed at weddings, funerals, etc., but it’s getting so bad that I’m starting to expect to be challenged for not participating in their rituals.
I’m sorry that the graduation of the young man in question was spoiled by this issue, but I’m sure he’s going to grow up to be a better person than any of the members of the Medina Valley Independent School District.
He already is. :)
Wow.
Great post.
Good luck to that young man. His parents must be proud.
Some times young people make me incredibly proud. My respect and admiration.
And he’s not alone:
http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2011/06/04/brigette-depape-senate-protest-marcelle_n_871331.html
“DePape, in her final act as a Senate Page before she lost her job, staged an unprecedented protest on the floor of the Senate chamber. She walked out into the red-carpeted centre aisle carrying a red “Stop Harper” sign that she’d pulled from beneath her skirt as Gov. Gen. David Johnston read the new government’s speech from the throne.”
Looks like in Canada, this wonderful and amazing human being has the biggest cajones in that country.
Much respect.
I am sure I speak for many here at FDL and extend to your son congratulations on his graduation and a sincere wish for his long and happy life.
And, of course, the very best to you.
The author of this piece would like me to extend her most heartfelt thanks and gratitude for the support she and her son have received from you guys. From her:
Thank you all for your kind words and support
I will print this entire thread with all comments for my son to read and treasure. This community is simply amazing.
I must go and plan a party for a wonderful boy now, thank all of you again.
Christa Schultz
“I am sure I speak for many here at FDL and extend to your son congratulations on his graduation and a sincere wish for his long and happy life.
And, of course, the very best to you.”
What doremus35 said above; Ditto.
Also extending warm congratulations to this graduating senior and his family. Very sorry to hear about how his very *reasonable* request to have separation of Church & State has been denied both by the school system and the state (as rep. by the court). Rather shocking, in fact, and I thought I was immune to shock these days.
It’s chilling that the Court has deemed that the school system can openly force prayer to happen at the grad. ceremony.
So-called “Christians” being bussed in to harass and ram their views down everyone throats is just more fascism on display. That these beings have the nerve to call themselves “Christians” is a topic for another time.
Thanks for the post, Margaret. Good to get this info out there. I would say: Shame on Fox, but we know that neither Rupert Murdoch or Roger Ailes would know shame if it hit them upside their think skulls with a 2×4.
WOO HOO! 21 year old Brigette DePape speaks about her action on the Senate floor (video interview, Global Montreal, June 3, 2011)
nice link.
thank you.
Nice to see your virtual self lurking (no offense ‘Sirlurksalot’)around the premises.
God, no god, my god, your god, perhaps a god, evidence for a god, the wrath of god, etc. ad nauseam.
Is this what America has finally come to: a religious side show meant to deflect the attention of the moronic masses from the financial and constitutional destruction and debasement of their country?
The glorification of stupidity seems to be a growing American national pastime.
We will now have 3 minutes of voluntary virtual projectile vomiting for those who agree with my contentions.
adieu, ya’ll!, catch you later.
Murdoch and Ailes are part of a kind of gatekeeper/assassination squad for the 1%ers. Every routine viewer you take away from them and redirect to a local, progressive, grass roots media diet, the harder their job (what’s been accomplished and more actions likely to follow to keep the pressure on).
Excellent post, Margaret. Thank you.
I agree that xtains judge anyone who doesnt ‘join in’. Thats why I have started to turn my back when Im at a function and they start some silly prayer crap.
Makes me feel like screaming that no I do not believe that Jesus Christ died for anyone’s sins. It still puzzles me that in one part of a book it says that there is only one god, but then they try to go against that and say Jesus is god. No wonder xtains cant figure out the Constitution or even care what it actually says….
Read your question on this matter on another site, and was a bit shocked to see that unless it is a criminal matter, the child’s name is publishable. (think I understood that to be the response) This just seems so wrong. I still wonder, though, since publication apparently happened during pendency (sp) of an active case, if the name would have somehow been protected.
At any rate, publishing the name was unnecessarily malicious.
Thank you SD. How’re things in KittyKountry?
I kicked a “vicious minister” out of our yard sale today. It made me feel good.
Do tell!
I cannot seem to get past that part in the Bible where Jesus tells someone “go inside and shut the door and pray to the Father in secret. Do not do as the Philistines do and wail on the street corners” or something to that effect.
So what is up with all the public praying? I thought the guy they supposedly follow told them not to do it? Why do these supposed Christians insist on doing just the exact opposite of what their divine leader says to do?
The Romans had a saying let the god’s defend themselves. Heck they are god’s right?
If vengeance is the Lord’s as the bible says then an all powerful God does not need help from pin heads to punish unbelievers.
If God is the way the truth then if man is rational and we really were created in his/her image then we should all in time freely choose to believe and follow God’s will.
The Fundies however act like any disrespect God is disrespect for them. Maybe because we think that the fundies do not represent God and or there is no God but either way the big thing is the Fundies use God to enforce their will they claim its god’s will on others whether we believe or not.
If god did exists and was logical she/he would not need defenders, he/she would not need help explaining her/his ideas, and….just why the Fuck would he choose the anti Science crowd to defend him?
She tried to make our front yard her pulpit to bully unions (way to impress my next-door neighbor who pays his dues), gay people, abortion providers/patients, and any other people who don’t embrace her interpretation of a christian bible, i.e., most of my neighborhood. She was scaring away our customers and just pissing us off in general. So ultimately I was forced to tell her she was mean, cruel, judgemental and needed to fill her heart with a lot more love before she tried to preach to other people and then I told her to leave. I just wish I’d noticed the Huckabee sticker on her car when she pulled up so I could’ve corraled her sooner.
After talking to her though, I wondered if half the bible isn’t simply a test. I think whichever Leviticus verse it is that they cite to condemn gay people to hell is actually an exam trick. If you take it to heart literally and believe gay people are going to hell, you fail the test. If you ponder it and arrive at the conclusion that a loving god wouldn’t deny any loving family, you pass. This bitch failed.
“Congress shall make no law means that Congress shall make NO LAW. No law means no law.”
–Justice Hugo Black
Back in the sixties when I was in a PUBLIC elementary school in a Texas suburb, we all had to recite the Pledge of Allegiance and then bow our heads while some student read a prayer. If we didn’t, we got three licks from the “Board of Education,” a paddle with holes drilled in it for extra speed wielded by the principal.
At first, the prayers were all Protestant, mostly Southern Baptist or Methodist. Then the Roman Catholic parents protested, so we had to listen to both a Protestant AND a Catholic prayer. Then some Jewish parents protested, so we had to stand with our heads bowed while listening to at least THREE prayers every morning. Then a Hindu showed up and, you get the picture.
All of us kids were quite happy when an atheist or agnostic went to court and got an injunction banning all prayers in the school district. Most parents weren’t. They called the principal, the same guy who used to whack us if we DIDN’T at least pretend to pray, a Communist for honoring the court order.
Excellent!
The problem with this issue is the silent majority. The people who say nothing or go along just to be polite, to belong & not rock the boat. Many of us were brought up that there are 2 things that are not appropriate topics of discussion; politics & religion.
The problem is the evangelicals don’t follow rules of polite society & are using this to embellish their numbers. Silence is considered assent. They use results from evangelical television & internet polls to suggest majority support of USA population, rather than just viewers. The new favorite is agree or delete campaign by discourages participation opponents giving the appearance of national support.
I have no problem with anyone’s personal beliefs but when they try to impose it upon others is when I draw a line. If they were prohibited from practising their religion that would be different. But no one is prohibiting prayer, silent prayer,however the evangelicals aren’t happy with a moment of reflection or silent prayer they must have a noisy public display of religion. Their way is the only way & their sect is the only sect they must save us all from our beliefs.
Before the GOP imposes evangelical Christianity on the nation its time for the silent majority to be brave enough to stand up for our rights of privacy, self determination & religion. Individual have the right to determine what they believe and how they want to express it. Whether it be in organized religon or quiet walks in the woods every adult has the right to decide, not some group bent on salvation. They only have the right to impose their views on their minor children, but may not interfere in the parental rights of others. It’s time we end our silence & preserve our rights & our Constitution.
It would seem the parents rights are under attack by the Medina ISD. They have imposed a specific sect of Christianity upon the student body what’s next?
I’m a Christian and I will debate with you any time, Freedom. Your statement is not true. There are many Christians who firmly believe in the separation of church and state, and I am among them. The state, its leaders, are not even specifically mentioned in the prayers since they are just human beings like the rest of us (for many of us.)
As one of the posters said previously, with the ‘state of the state’ at present, it becomes very easy to separate oneself from it. As did Jesus when tempted by Satan in the desert.
Late to this; Good on ya Peg!
All my support to the family.
Whats next is the elections. They have established the tea party as a place where only the nutty xtains join. If you ask me I think they will cut their own throats before they get too far in their endeavors.
But your right that they are planing on how to make the US an theocracy dictatorship. Not that they would call it that but, thats what they are fighting for.
Their denial of the 1st amendments obvious definition is a bold claim. And makes just as much sense as everything being only 10k years old.
Hopefully as the baby boomers die off, so will their generations religious fetishes. And thats why now today they are pushing their fight. They want to leave a Christian nation behind. Their religion demands it. But then it also demands that we should be playing this game with the Romans not our own Government.
That might explain why religion picked up in America. If you compare the time lines with Slavery, I wonder what that would show?
I also think that American Socialists have it confused, Its Christianity that is to blame, instead of Capitalism.
What exactly do you want to debate? Sorry but as a whole Christians have a voice. There will always be people with their own minds that instead have their own beliefs. But thats not the collective voice. And religions are collectives. So I wasnt addressing a rogue element when I broadly spoke about Christians.
“As did Jesus when tempted by Satan in the desert.” Why is that Christians can never talk about anything without slipping a sermon in?
BTW why did you call me Freedom instead of Nogod? Nogod is two letters shorter or can you not bring yourself to type my name?
BTW its the name of my metal band. I know its kind of long, but it just evolved that way.
We disagree – about the only area in which our politics differ – but here we disagree.
Of course congratulation to the young man and his family on his graduation.
But the Constitution does not ban religion from the public common. It has a phrase requested by Baptists so as to prevent Episcopalians – the state church in some states – from obtaining a Federal Law that would prevent them from holding their beliefs, or holding their revivals and meetings. The 1947 decision was a stretch that was needed at the time because of communities doing to the atheist faith that which the Baptists feared being done to them.
So there is no right that the young man, or his family has, to demand that religion be banned from the ceremony. Indeed “asking the audience to stand and pray with school district officials” is not a legal order – one can do whatever one wants during that moment. I’d prefer the multiple religions approach used in many areas – including an atheist “sending good thoughts to the students” if you like – but I am neither a lawyer or a designer of graduation ceremonies.
So as I said, I disagree – but I realize that at FDL mine is but one opinion – and your mileage may vary.
:-)
These folks apparently yearn to return to the three estates. They keep fighting to have “Jesus camps” (now that’s a great film for community salons) and all kids pushed through them.
Congratulations to the graduate, thank you for posting Margaret. It’s good there are good people, especially in TX, who will stand up for our rights and do what should be done. Thanks to all in the family for courage and strength, the lawyers and everyone who has been supporting them in this quest for justice.