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Morning Firepups! As most of you are aware, I’m all about science and things scientific. I’m one of those people who needs hard, solid, empirical evidence in order to be convinced of the veracity of claims. Don’t have the evidence? Then don’t waste your time and mine trying to convince me. And anecdotal “evidence” is not evidence at all. Don’t even try to woo me with astrology or pyramid power. The fastest way for a guy who wants to ask me out to get shot down is to ask what my sign is.
Now that I’ve almost certainly made you think that I’m a close minded skeptic who wears blinders and never considers the possibility of something more, let me qualify that last paragraph: there are many, many phenomena which are unexplained and sometimes inexplicable. Some things we don’t know or understand because our science is not there yet, some because we are unable to perceive them, (we can only perceive the tiniest portion of the EM spectrum unaided for example), and I’m sure there are many things that we are just unable to grasp. Consider that just a few short years ago, the possibility of extra solar planets was a hotly debated topic in astronomy circles. While given the vastness of the cosmos their existence seemed inevitable, we as yet had no evidence of any planetary bodies outside our own solar system. Now we know that they not only exist but are in fact common, with some 778 exoplanets counted to date. A few centuries ago, people thought that the elements were: Earth, Air, Fire and Water but now we know that none of those are elements at all. One is a molecule, two are mixtures of molecules and one is a plasma. So science evolves, and to a more limited degree, our perceptions evolve as we develop tools which enable us to perceive more of that electromagnetic band but some things we’ll probably never know. Maybe we aren’t wired for it, maybe it can never be successfully tested, etc.
I have had a number of unexplained things occur to or around me, (not all of which happened while experimenting with mind altering substances). For example, there was the aircraft for which I couldn’t identify the airframe, its methods of flight or of propulsion. There was also what I and my former neighbors called “The Bull Creek Ghost,” a portly, tipsy young man who was always carrying a beer and hanging around the pool area. I have no evidence to back up my claims of those phenomena, except for a couple of witnesses. I know what I perceived though and I know that I can’t explain them and I probably never will be able to. I’m certain that there will always be phenomena which we can’t explain and which will cause almost everybody else to look at us askance and take a step away, but that doesn’t make our experiences any less “real.” Sometimes we aren’t perceiving what we think we are but there are rarer occasions when we have witnessed the genuinely strange.
So what about you? What experiences have you had that you’ve only ever whispered to your closest confidants out of fear of being labeled a loon or worse? I promise I won’t laugh or jeer. Now is the time to get it off your chest, so spill.
167 Comments
Talk about pressure, “so spill.” Let me think a bit, first.
Good Morning Margaret
zed!
Good morning pups of fire. I wanna hear some ghost/ufo stories!
Thanks, Margaret, a spiritual beer will be raised in your honor, when the day is farther enough along to indulge. That’s homey for the ghosties.
Good morning all.
Another bee update.
morning, margaret ‘n pups! now to read — see u 8:30?
^..^
The closest I came to thinking there might be a ghost in my historic house was when I heard footsteps in the upstairs parlor.
Turns out is was town July 4 fireworks display on the other side of the Wallkill River reverberating off the front of the house.
Good Morning, Margaret!
I very seldom take the time to comment on anything related to “Pull Up a Chair” but in this instance I will make an exception since this is Pull Up a Chair and Be Strange, and thusly, tickles my funny bone.
Now, I’ve been strange all my adult life in that here at at Pull Up a Chair, prohibits any conversation relative to politics. And since I come from the Hinterlands that is the Sonoran Desert, well-kept “secrets” only apply to the National Security Act, and subsequently, “no secrets” are permitted. As such Transparency, is my forte.
And in this regard, I am just “touching in” to make sure that Strangeness does exist and to which I find a tad of “interesting” and which may be comparable to my “interesting.” Or on the downside, “misery loves company.”
On a brighter side, I have been married to the same woman for these past 38 years, and “secrets” for me, don’t exist. To wit, on the day before my marriage, my soon-to-be wife suggested that should I be one to keep any secrets, such as going across town to “fool around” with the opposite sex, I best sleep with one-eye open. As such, the best “advice” ever delivered and received. And it’s for this reason that I recommend my wife’s advice to all.
Jaango
Take your time. I’m not going anywhere for a bit. :)
Ooh! I’ll bet that was creepy for a bit! Morning eCAHN.
Okay, I did see the Marfa lights and was not expecting to, had to check with people in Marfa who keep track of the phenomenon to make sure that what I saw was the actual lights.
For about 5 minutes. I was talking to a guy I was dating in the downstairs parlor when we both noticed the sound. We stopped talking, listened, and as the fireworks display increased in frequency, it became apparent that it wasn’t footsteps. Then I remembered the date and we had a good laugh.
I’ve never seen those but the official explanation sounds like BS to me. In this case I’m more skeptical of the official explanation that I am of the UFO theories, though both are almost certainly not true.
Strange ? I have been an electronics and computer geek for over 50 years. Programs that apparently re-write themselves and and electronic equipment that re-wires itself ?
But I digress. What we consider “normal” is only a consensus of opinion concerning what our brains make of the input our senses tell us. No more. No less.
Morning Margaret, pups. Find myself usually trying to walk the line between skepticism and cynicism. Some days feel like just belly flopping into the cynicism. Neuro folks have been coming on strong the last few years, maybe they will produce a don’t shit yourself pill. Would be some fun to watch the fundies scream about that one.
Since oral tradition among the local native tribes has reported them since before Europeans invaded, I have some doubts about the ‘headlights’ explanation, myself.
For the purposes of this post, “strange” means unexplained or inexplicable.
As I’ve grown older, I’ve noticed the human tendency to look for explanations where none are apparent. I’m particularly guilty of that.
I’ve tried to cure myself by remembering to say “I don’t know” when that is accurate.
I can say in all honesty that I never had one of these kinds of experiences, however, as a child, I was always fascinated by recurring dreams I had, about flying. Occasionally different places I had never been physically to my knowledge, but more frequently, there I was at about 100 feet over the landscape, looking down on the rooftops and lakes on my neighborhood. I would just run, take a mighty leap and be airborne. These dreams ended around age 12.
You promised not to laugh. Hope you are doing well today. I had to think about the last sentence in your first paragraph. Woo and asking someone out have not been in my vocabulary for a while and I needed to google the terms to refresh my memory. ;-)
LOL
Precisely! That’s a similar explanation to the whole “bath salts” theory about the face eating “zombie” in Florida. The “authorities” do love to take the latest trend, fad, etc and turn it into something nefarious and the root of all things unexplained. All that does is make people who can engage their cerebral cortex roll our eyes and feel exasperated
Yeah, well….if I’m honest, I was thinking about years or even decades ago myself. :)
I was making French toast this morning, and I swear I saw the face of Ben Bernanke on the first piece. I was quite relieved when the face of Joe Stiglitz appeared in the hash browns. LOL
Morning, everyone.
That should be in the description of FDL in Wikipedia
I do like evidence from the ground like the Wisconsin bloggers bring us about what they see or heard.
But I admit its not something to base a post on or be used to prove a point it should be repeated though.
I use anecdotal “evidence” about my GrandAunt having TB all the time to push for healthcare for everyone for example. I admit I I do trust my Dad’s stories but it is still anecdotal “evidence”.
Just a small quible:)
Like the Oviedo Lights ?
Not far from where I used to live.
Well if you see Krugman on a sausage patty, we’ll officially consider it weird.
I never heard of those. Thanks for sharing!
Nobody who knows you thinks that:)
I had those dreams around that age, too. It was quite exhilarating, having just enough conscious awareness that I was dreaming but not waking up. Thinking, “oh boy, I get to fly again.” I am sadly earthbound in current dreams. Maybe it had something to do with the mixed blessing of pooberty.
Maybe that’l teach you not to be making that surrender monkey toast. Hash browns is merkin.
I’m sorry I wasn’t more clear. Anecdotal evidence of an event is called an eye witness report but anecdotal evidence in support of a scientific theory or explanation isn’t evidence.
Again, sorry.
My Grandfather in Mexico did not believe the moon landing he just thought they got drunk in the desert thought they were on the moon and had a film camera.
He like you would have wanted more proof:)
Must say I’ve been disappointed. I expected lots more horror stories about nanobots.
Prolly is some commercially funded think tank (Kochs, anyone) to find & debunk such stories before the technology can get discredited.
I still have very lucid dreams but almost never of flying, (unless I’m in a flying contraption), but the gravity on my dream world seems very low, leading to things like enormous waves and huge sand dunes.
I’m thinking those flying dreams are boy things. Did you girls get to have them too?
That’s easy. Anyone with a powerful enough laser and photo multiplier can prove the moon landings by bouncing a laser off the reflector at the site at the Sea of Tranquility.
Ooh you uttered the ‘k’ word, better go brush your teeth with bleach.
Agreed no need to be sorry and I hold eye witness reports about crime, gossip etc in very low regard. I believe eye witness reports are enough to question a person but you need more for a conviction. Gossip I let my friends tell me their version especially if the story seems out of character.
I have an appointment to attend to, people. Thanks Margaret, sorry to have to bug out of here.
Yes, but not too frequently.
Have yourself a great Saturday non.
Notice how cleverly I tied it into the topic though.
Without question an impressive and acrobatic segue.
I’m in the middle of an interesting book, “Incognito” by a neuro science guy. It says we don’t actually see very much in the moment, the brain fills in most of the current picture from memory and calculations. It gives interesting examples
As a self-designated “expert” on Oral Tradition, the “spiritual” will continue to outlive the “scientific.” As such, the “scientific” cannot explain the existence of Asians and Europeans having lived in this Indigenous Hemisphere for these past 50,000 years. Thus, the disconnect between the Conventional Wisdom and the Common Sense. And therefore, I am a ornery Contrarian, given that language and culture, will not disappear in the foreseeable future. And more on Point, the Medicine Men or more appropriately, the Medicine Women of the Dineh, suggest that the planet was populated by “aliens” and consequently, we are all temporary visitors to the planet currently labeled “earth.”
Jaango
Once I brought my Ford to a dealership to get fixed because it had problems I pushed it in the last block. I said fix it they did next week smoke comes out through the AC vents I’m trapped in traffic I finally get a chance to pull over open the hood of the car on a side street and am about to try and put the fire out with my shirt wrapped around my hand.
Suddenly a truck pulls up this guy puts the fire out with a fire extinguisher then he cuts the battery cable with pliers he just happened to have on his belt and tells me its an electrical fire.
My friend had car trouble earlier in the week and said he helped him too.
Is there an angel of auto repair?
My Sister’s friend bought her first tarot deck and read for me I got the Tower, Hanged Man, Death etc I said this is just random so I made her shuffle again and deal and got pretty much the same cards. After 6 more shuffles and deals getting the same cards honestly I forgot all about this when 4-5? months later I got arrested on felony pot possession.
“Indigenous hemisphere”? Which hemisphere would that be? In the western hemisphere, evidence for human colonization only goes back to between 15,000 and 20,000 years. In the eastern hemisphere in Europe, Asia and Australia, the evidence of human occupation goes back for over 100,000 years and there is also hard evidence of different species of the genus Homo going back much further. I’m not sure what you’re saying.
Good morning, pupses! Thanks, Margaret, for a chance to spill about the ghost in the old 1930s beach house my parents used to rent.
It was a big, shotgun style house, with the dining and living rooms comprising the corridor down the middle, and the 4 bedrooms, the kitchen and the single bathroom accessed by doors along the main two rooms. From the dining room one could climb a narrow, winding wooden staircase which ended abruptly at a locked door, making the attic off limits to renters.
I was in my early teens, brother 2 years younger and sister 3 years younger than him. We headed to the beach with our dad immediately after arrival, leaving mom to explore and unpack without us under foot. After an hour or so we trekked back through the dunes to the house, and found mom in one of the big Adirondack chairs on the deep porch that spanned the beach side of the cottage. She explained that she had heard footsteps upstairs while we were away, as though a person was walking back and forth the length of the attic. My little sister was able to squeeze under the door due to the gap under it made by the angle of the stairs. She unlocked it and we all took a thorough look around and found nothing that would explain the noises.
Listen as we might, none of us heard anything, and it was quickly forgotten. A couple of nights later, my brother and I were awakened, in separate rooms on opposite sides of the living room, by what sounded like footsteps upstairs. This happened from time to time throughout the many years that we vacationed in the house. Oddly enough, we were never frightened by it, even though sometimes we thought the steps sounded as though they were coming down stairs. They always disappeared when they reached the dining room.
When the grand kids were born we started leaving little gifts and notes to them on the stairs from ‘George’ the ghost, and they always looked forward to hearing him, rather than being afraid.
Seriously, guys, we joked about George and played practical jokes on each other over the years, but rarely a trip to the cottage passed without someone being woken by steps in the attic and on the stairs. Once a Swedish friend, an engineering student and not at all superstitious, was spending the summer with us and was woken. Mattias walked into the living room in the dark and stood for a moment. He said that the footsteps stopped, but as he stood very still and silent he felt a slight motion of the air on his body as though someone had walked past him. He said that it made the tiny hairs on his arms and the back of his neck stand up. He was quite unnerved by the experience.
About 6 months before 9/11 I got randomly interested in middle east stuff I read “The Assassins” http://www.abebooks.com/Assassins-Bernard-Lewis-Oxford-University-Press/5372307290/bd
The Ottoman Centuries http://www.amazon.com/Ottoman-Centuries-Lord-Kinross/dp/0688080936
And Right before 9/11 I picked up the ” Popular Mechanics ” issue that had how to make a non nuclear Electro Magnetic Pulse bomb article in it.
I read Popular Mechanics in the High School library all the time but after high school had not read it since.
I think now in my life when I start showing an interest in something new a sustained interest that that something will be important.
Seconded:)
Thanks for sharing that story Ohm. Nothing like a good ghost story in the bright morning when the shadows can’t getcha.
Good morning Margaret. Thank you for the post.
Today is garage sale day in the neighborhood and you do not dare to keep your garage door open if you are not participating, people walk right up and have a look around anyway.
http://www.dreammoods.com/dreamdictionary/f3.htm
LMAO! That would be too weird, somebody coming up to me and asking, “How much for this?”, just because I happened to be taking a break from organizing my garage.
A lot of people on death row in Texas might be very interested in that book. Maybe you can donate it when your done?
I very occasionally have dreams about flying, full of uncertainty about how I can stay in the air and how long, and occasionally unexpectedly losing the ability to stay afloat. Very occasional.
Bernard Lewis is a neocon.
I’ve read the Kinross book, but not until after 9/11. It helped advance my knowledge but when I looked at the negative reviews, they say it is a too west-centric book.
Good for you for getting interested in the subject at an opportune moment.
Mornin’ Sweetie !
was doing my usual saturday drive by and noticed your name on the mast – had to say howdy – great topic to boot.
Having just moved to Texas, our youngest and I were coming home one night and he asked me why that little girl was waving at him from a rock in the middle of the creek ? come to find out it’s a local urban legend – (the old cememtery closest to the creek is sadly filled with children who had died in a small pox epidemic ) but our son had yet to hear the story and he simply isn’t someone who could credibly fib about such a thing
off to the Farmers Market to get some fruits for jelly/preserves ( I blame Aunt Toby !!)
mad, mad progressive love to you Margaret, and all Firedogs
That has happened here, too :). The really annoying thing was a “shopper” who parked her car squarely across my driveway, making me almost miss a Saturday morning vet appointment for my cat! Grrrrr.
Ouiji board with my grandmother maybe 1/2 dozen times ’til she got spooked. then once with girlfriend that spooked both of us.
i think it (Ouija) may tap deep subconcious which reflects the stronger mood of the moment: playful, thoughtful or very dark. a reflection of self that we do not want to see.
sorry, that’s from Ruth
Thanks for that cbl and great to see your fonts again. Don’t be such a stranger, Stranger. :)
I’m assuming crystals and Ouija Board are cool since you didn’t specifically mention them. I heard they’re pretty effective.
Morning Margaret & Pupses.
Just how could Egyptians build the pyramids without the wheel let alone power tools cutting rock by hand with fire hardened copper tools that need to be rehardened with fire after a few hours of work and getting the blocks that well fit together so they did not need mortar seems insane. Tell me whats your objection to Asians and Europeans being found in America 50,000 years ago they did have boats back then right?
Link or a Diary would be cool
I almost used a Ouija Board for the graphic but in the end I decided on The Moody Blues. That’s a haunting song and in the 70s and 80s, radio stations only seemed to play it very late at night, when your buzz was winding down and you began thinking about sleep.
Crystals can be useful in a laser and I once used a Ouija board as a serving tray…
Cool tune up top. One thing: Can you tell me where that dude keeps the double-necked guitar stashed? I wanna steal it. And I might as well snatch up that big percussion setup while I’m at it.
Hahahahaha!!!
I find that my faith in the ingenuity of ancient Egyptians to be far more credible than the “alien” theories. Just because technology has progressed and we’ve forgotten how such things were accomplished back then isn’t evidence if extra terrestrial interventions.
You shouldn’t discount the possibility of Alien Invasions…
Good Morning, Margaret and PUACers,
I’m showing up late because I slept in, again, for the 3rd time this week. That in itself is strange.
Going to read the comments and catch up.
I imagine it’s kept at John Lodge’s house. Jimmy Page has one too though.
A closely related topic, IMHO, is how we keep all sorts of good luck charms — items that were there when something good happened to us. I remember I lost one once and it took a long time to recover. Used to blame all turns of bad luck on losing it. LOLOL
I don’t discount them. I just find them much less likely than human ingenuity when it came to constructing ancient monuments.
Morning Deb!
So…ghost or UFO stories, huh?
first let me say that the Moody Blues were my very favoriteist band of the 60′s and 70′s. Had some of my best trips with them! “LSD, the Private Sea and the Search for God” old book, still got it.
When I was a kid, probably about 8, I saw a disc of light rolling along the horizon. I have looked in UFO books and something similarly described was one of the only unexplained “sighting’s”. It sure wasn’t the sun, ’cause I could look straight at it.
I’ve had many powerful experiences before & since but, let me tell you this one from the mid-70′s:
I was in a kind of low mood, no reason why, really. I went in to take a nap, hoping that I’d feel better ( one way or another, you know). Well, all of sudden, there I was, out-of body and hanging above the intersection down the block.
I totally freaked and snapped back into my body.
So, I was laying there, wondering WTF? and this old Indian man came and sat down by the bed, introduced himself as Roaming Turtle and offered to be my Spirit Guide.
Let me say here that I was an ardent feminist separatist at the time and I didn’t want no MAN being MY spirit guide, thankyouverymuch, Indian or not.
I was so disappointed that a female hadn’t shown up, that I sent him away.
I sometimes wonder if I’d taken him up on it that I would have wound up possessed or else being a Female Carlos Casteneda! Either one really wasn’t in my plans so I don’t regret it.
But it was interesting and pretty bizarre.
I have since had plenty of what I call spiritual experience, including peak experiences and all sorts of other things have happened when I’m least looking for them.
My last experience was so powerful that I kinda have asked to be left alone for awhile, you know.
I don’t talk about these things very much, because in this culture, unless you see Jesus on a tortilla or cupboard door, people think you’re cracked.
Now THOSE kinds of “spiritual experiences wont’ take you anywhere, so they’ll safe for our narrow, restricted, linear minds, aren’t they?
Ya know buzz, I’ve done that before but eventually I always forget the significance of the item and it gets tossed out when it’s outlived it’s utility or gets used up.
I saw Jimmy Page (and the original Zep) on a double-bill with the original Jethro Tull at “The Swing Auditorium” way back in the day. That illustrious venue was subsequently leveled by a decidedly off-course aeroplane…
“They’re in everybody’s eggs…”
“likely” and ‘unlikely” are the most underutilized words in any language. When the majority catch on to their immense utility we might be saved. Until then….unlikely.
Wow! Thanks Kassandra. I had a similar experience one time but the person I saw didn’t offer to guide me but rather sought to dissuade me from further out of body experiences. I eventually chalked it up to extremely lucid dreaming but I’m still not comfortable with that explanation over thirty years later.
Good morning all. Thanks for the post and host Peg. Great topic.
Just a drive by to say hello. Off to the markets. (farmers and super)
Have a wonderfull weekend all.
They are becoming even more under utilized as ideology replaces coherent thought I’m afraid.
Yeah, we have to remember that the Chistain zealot, Emperor Justinian burned down the library at Alexandria, Egypt so that people wouldn’t think ’bout those things no more and stop thinking creatively.
I see it happening here in the newly emerging fascist state. totalitarian s don’t like independent thinking or creativity.
PS: I still have a resentment about the Library, even tho I wasn’t there at the time. All that knowledge lost forever.
Hey there! Glad you stopped by too. Hope you and the lovely cbl enjoy your day. :)
Not sure what Lewis has to do with Lord Kinross maybe Lewis influenced Lord Kinross I do agree that many books by Westerners even after 9/11 are to west-centric.
Still it is a good book I’ve seen many books where the west-centric bias is obvious and demeaning to the culture, people and makes the argument that only if they had been more like the West everything would be cool and makes light of their accomplishments.
Older books on Genghis Khan tend to fit that description. Still aside from doing the only successful attack on Russia in Winter which Hitler and Napoleon failed at he invented paper money and ended the Mongol practice of kidnapping your wife from another tribe for his time Genghis was pro woman. He was motivated to do this after his wife was kidnapped and his first born son was born with questions who the dad was.
The Oldest son did not inherit the core Empire China, Mongolia but he got Russia.
After Genghis’s death the oldest son got tons of flack from the other sons who were arguing who gets what. But Genghis did give his oldest the hardest job which showed how much he trusted him. I think the Mongols spied and planned attacking Russia for 19 years before they invaded.
I do wish America spied,planned and tried to learn about our enemies before we went to war.
The Mongol Court once had all the religions including Christianity debate their ideas before the court.
In America Talking Heads on TV, Politicians and Military men seem to get their knowledge of the Middle East from NeoCons if we are lucky and from Fundies when we are unlucky.
This is no way to set a foreign policy. On the one hand we got NeoCons arguing attack everyone but Israel for various reasons but they never mention lowering oil prices now Bush blew that excuse.
On the other hand we got Fundies who want a war so Jesus can come back.
Desire strange desire warps their reasons. ” Reasons Change Desire Remains the same ” ( Quote from me)
On the occasion of the Belmont Stakes…
Exactly! I often wonder how much further along we would be if that bit of vandalism hadn’t occurred.
It’s very dangerous to go out of body without a guide, things can get you out there if you don’t know what you are doing, I’ve heard.
I didn’t know what the Indian was offering, but I don’t necessarily think it was about going out of body, more a s a spiritual adviser.
I just couldn’t take him up on it. and I’ve had plenty of experiences since then that have been very informative.
So, I think I made the right decision
Agreed I think they had to have iron tools the Wheel Cranes, Block and tackle tech and some stuff we don’t even know about yet. Aliens I’ll consider as a reason when we make first contact.
But Copper tools cutting stone by hand? Nope that I can’t believe.
Well, we were immediately plunged into the Dark Ages of illiteracy and superstition based on that book of lies, the bible…..and then the Koran, so that pretty much shows you what we lost in those centuries of repression of what we’re supposed to be so good at: thinking.
Religion has stopped us growing and now, i don’t know if we even have a chance anymore with killing off Mother and all
Hey, Peggy.
I’m a female what has had many flying dreams. Most of them occured when I was younger, but, I’v continued to have them occassionally as an adult. I also experienced the semi lucid awareness in those dreams and also remember thinking, oh cool, I love flying dreams. There were a few times when I lost my height and was falling down, but always managed to slow down and my feet would gently touch the ground. All safe and sound.
Stone cutting has been around a long, long time and was sometimes done with water and some kind of abrasive material. Again, just because we don’t remember exactly how it was done isn’t evidence that it couldn’t BE done.
Any landing you can walk away from….. :)
But we have to remember that the Nile flooding , which we haven’t seen in our lifetimes since they built the Aswan Dam, probably floated those blocks over to the sites, where master craftspeople dressed them.
Hey! the Pharaoh was GOD, so they were doing they very best for him and his monuments to their religion.
Plus, everything and everyone in Egypt was owned by the Pharaoh so they willinglu did what he asked.
Don’t get me started about the little myth of Moses freeing the Jews here, OK?
Was this before or after the Plague that hit? The need to control would be increased in a plague situation that was that bad.
The plague was a real 9/11 event one can argue that the Western Empire was ripe for falling after that and the Eastern Empire lost much of it land to the Muslims soon after. The Persian Empire fell to the Muslims completely not long after the plague.
I am not excusing what he did just pointing out that real Shock Doctrine events can cause the tyranny fake Shock Doctrine events try to use to create tyranny.
So cool, I never had flying dreams, was always and still am lucky if I could get out of the house in mine!
Gotsta tend to some Saturday chores. Catch up later, Pupses. And thanks, Margaret, for hosting today’s gig.
And a little traveling music… (Apologies for the audio quality. Even WD-40 and duct tape couldn’t fix it.)
An ex-GF in the 70′s was into something called Astral Projection. It seemed to be a “discipline” wherein one developed the ability to walk the fine line between dream and consciousness, to literally control one’s dreams. I suspect most of us have experienced an awareness during dreams that we are indeed dreaming, and momentarily have a bit of control over the dream. At which point, of course, we wake up, dammit.
The Library was partly or completely destroyed in AD 48, AD 270-275, AD 391 and AD 642 by Caesar, Aurelian, Pope Theophilis and invading Muslims. The library was just a distant memory by the time of the Black Death.
Thanks for stopping by Shoto!
…is a successful one.
So, not only a dream of freedom, but one of control.
No ghost stories here.
I live with a man who just plain doesn’t believe in things that go woo hoo in the night, or day time either. I wouldn’t call him a skeptic anymore than I would call you one. He just believes there’s a rational explanation for everything. I’m a little more gullable about woo hoo stories, but I’m also aware that I sometimes Want there to be strange occurences, just so that life is so knowable, and might be more fun.
Post Script. Pile o’ Pupses.
Had to step away from the computer but you understand exactly people’s motivations. That actually happens if the garage door is open.
Morning Margaret, firedogs! I believe what Margaret says above; that there are things we can’t perceive and things that science just hasn’t gotten around to explaining yet.
I’ve seen far too many ghosts in my time, including one last year that I could see in my mind, to not believe. He was in the room with me. I could feel exactly where he was with my spidey-senses. If I closed my eyes or relaxed focus of my eyes with them open I could see him in the room, but if I tried to look at him there was nothing there.
I’m sure there is a scientific explanation. Everything that exists in this physical world, or another parallel one, exists in this universe and is therefore rooted in science. It’s just science we don’t know yet.
I also believe in Aliens, though I’m not sure if I believe they’ve ever been here. If Stephen Hawking believes in them and can break down the statistical possibilities that life exists on other planets, then I can get on board.
Thanks for the topic Margaret. The paranormal kicks ass.
Moving the tons of rocks with canals to guide the flood is something I myself think happened but once the rocks were on site getting them to fit together without mortar that close a fit without steel tools is hard.
Getting them up the first layer of rocks requires a crane building scaffolding that can hold rocks that weigh tons that high would require a wooden structure copper would not do of such size I doubt it could be done even if we had the wood.
A wooden crane that large I admit that could move rocks that heavy might also be impossible.
Get some steel tools and by hand try and make a perfect sq. Then try it with fire hardened Copper re heating the copper with a wood fire every time it gets blunt.
Just how many trees were burned down to provided fire for the tools to get hard?
Just how many trees were there to build the scaffolding? Africa where the Nile Starts has forests and so does Lebanon unless of course they were built during the ice age when Egypt was rainy and might have had forests.
Big happy hugs to cbl and oldnslow! Been missing youz.
Well, Egypt had lots of plagues. any time the Nile didn’t inundate for several years running, the rats would start looking for food.
If one only take “history” from the bible, you’d think they only had the one where the Jews escaped, but they happened a lot. And the Pharaoh was ALWAYS God from the earliest dynasties until the Romans conquered them under Augustus.
Wait, are you talking about the Black Death that wiped out 2/3rds of Europe? No, that happened in the 1300′s, and a few times after that ( not as severe) and probably released the the people to start thinking again and realizing that if the Catholic GOD could do this to his people, they didn’t want much to do with Him.
It was after this that the Renaissance started and all those Protestant heresies that are oppressing us again today
;^)
Thanks, good to have reports girls are like us guys in the flying dreams. I also have had the cruising boat dreams. Rivers flowing everywhere, very smooth riding boat, like soaring, gently undulating, no fear of falling. Just the opposite of the feet stuck in mud struggle dreams. Some say you can ask for dreams on retiring, any luck with that?
Right. A literary example. I once read a post-apocalypse-type novel in which the inhabitants of a country called Inland (ruled by the Pry Mincer and the Wes Mincer) were aware that at one time there were “boats in the air and pictures on the wind” but no one remembered how these things were accomplished. They figured if they could just get “the clevver” again, they would return to the good old days before the nuclear misunderstanding.
Beats me. But they DID have all the time in the world, didn’t they. Just lie the Chinese who used to spend their entire live on one work of art.
And I don’t think any of us know now just how high the inundations were.
We are now so used to putting as little effort into the things we make as we can possibly get away with…just until the warranty expires and then throw it in the sea….
the ancient peoples weren’t like that. They revered what they did and the materials they made it out of.
We are barbaric compared to them
One of the creepiest things in existence, in my mind at least, is the Medico de la peste masks that the Italians wore during the Black Death.
Good morning, everyone! Great topic, sorry to be so late to the party.
‘Morning, Molly.
We’re in the same state right now. That’s strange, huh?
Is the wedding today?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plague_of_Justinian#Virulence_and_mortality_rate
The last destruction of the library seems to fit after Justinain was emperor
http://www.sacred-texts.com/afr/stle/stle03.htm
But if the library was still around when the Muslims came it means Justinian did not close it long or completely destroy it.
But yes political control Justinian saw Christianity as the way to hold the empire together and attacked any competing theory even fellow christian ones.
Thanks for sharing Kris!
I didn’t know about the Plague of Justinian. Thanks for the link! As for the Library, it’s been destroyed and rebuilt many times but Kassandra is right on: very little of the ancient knowledge has survived all of the religion based purges and the warfare that has swept through.
I’m drawn to the paranormal, less so as I age. But, like many here believe that life is not just black or white. Although, there are people who go extremeist in their views, and unfortunately, that attitude does not allow for bigger or more free thinking
Gotta go. I’ve got errands. I got caught up in this. Thanks Margaret. Great topic!
See ya
No, exactly the opposite in fact. An ideologue’s goal is to badger, cajole, threaten or bully other people into adhering to their point of view. So free thought is not to be tolerated. EVER!
Too true, and good morning demi!
Thanks for visiting with us!
Mr. Einstein once said something to the effect that the universe is not only stranger than we think, it’s stranger than we are ableto think.
And thank you everybody for stopping by! We don’t have to end our conversation yet but the lovely Phoenix Woman is up top, discussing the Stupid/Evil/Crazy Vortex.
Actually a wedding anniversary celebration. They were married last June 10th on the beach in Santa Barbara, immediate family only, with the promise to have a big “event” on their one-year anniversary. That falls on Sunday this year.
It takes one to know one. I can’t think of a time that a free thinker was bullied into believing what a “fundamentalist” was trying to cram down their throat. But, the type of person who wants black and white answers will take the bait, hook, line and sinker.
He said “The universe is not only stranger than we imagine but stranger than we can imagine”. Richard Dawkins, Stephen Hawking and others have also said very similar things about the universe.
Well, yeah but what I was saying about ideologues isn’t solely about religion. When I think of ideologues, I think mainly of political ideologues, though ideology isn’t limited to politics.
Stone cutting with water and an abrasive material probably sand glued on cloth rags might work with a water wheel powered by the river and the rocks on the shore so they don’t move at all. Grinding rocks that big to that close a tolerance ok I’ll put that as a maybe.
Next find the wood for the fire hardened tools and the scaffolding I just think that steel tools and scaffolding make more sense. Crane tech with Steel makes more sense.
I have read that even today we could not build the Pyramids even with our modern tech so I wonder just what tech they had but it was more than western history gives them credit for.
Echan was talking about western centric books upthread on how Egypt built the Pyramids I think we see plenty of bias.
I would prefer they said we just don’t know.
Hi, honey. Nice to be at the same place at the same time. I read your words all the time, just not when you are “there”.
Unless, there is a quantum phenomena, wherein we are all at the Lake at the same time, but we just don’t realize it.
How’s that for strange?
iPad charge about gone, nature’s way of saying, “Go mow the lawn”.
Thanks, Margaret, and have a great Saturday, every pup.
ohmmmm
Neither of you are there until someone observes you. ;)
Ah, yes. I remember now. Are you having a fun reunion? Any strange things happen yet? Two gals show up with the same outfit? Anything comment worthy?
In an unlimited number of universes I’m sure one exists where we are all at the lake reading the same comment at the same time!
LMAO! Isn’t it great how nature assists in getting tedious tasks done? Thanks for stopping in!
I’m off as well. Have a great weekend firepups, and thank you Margaret for the post.
Righto. And, when I use the word fundamentalist, I’m not limiting that to religion, at all. Could be politics, or even cooking, or child rearing.
I am a long suffering Chicago Cubs fan. As such, along with my grandfather and father before me, I have been tormented for decades by the paranormal phenomenon known as “The Curse of the Billy Goat.”
That’s something else I mentioned in my post but I edited it out for length. There is a growing consensus among physicists that not only are there infinite universes but more are created every moment, with every decision we make. I can’t observe all of the universes you can for example, because you’re experiences differ from mine. We can only observe where our universes intersect.
Ooh, and that goat sure seems to be gnawing at the Cubs this year. Even my Astros are doing better!
Understood. :)
What are your thoughts on the Butterfly Effect?
Current theory holds that time travel is impossible so it can’t really be demonstrated or tested but if the multiple universes theory is true, then we experience the butterfly effect all the time. If I had made different decisions long ago, the universe which I currently inhabit would be very different to me and would grow more so with the passage of time, (or increase of the temporal “distance” from the event/decision in question).
Peggy, maybe that’s not a fair question for you since you’ve been at this for coming on 3 hours.
I don’t have any bacon, but the southwest hash browns are almost ready.
Thanks for an interesting, if not Strange (ha), topic and for your gracious hosting this morning, Ms. Peg.
Scritches for Neko. We appreciate her sharing you with us this morning.
You’re welcome. Thanks for visiting with us.
I love your mind. I know you, like myself, love to read. Have your read Dean Koontz’s From The Corner Of His Eye?
One day, Barty and his mother go to his father’s grave when it is raining. Agnes gets soaked in the weather, but not a single drop touched Barty, as he says, “I ran where the rain wasn’t.”
This mystery still intrigues me, (back home for a few minutes) Edward Leedskalnin and his Coral Castle in Florida. More along the lines of lost knowledge I guess.
Going to pour a cup.
I’d forgotten about that! Really bizarre.
Thanks, Non. I’d never heard of that. Why is there an ad for depression on that site? Hmmmm? Strange.
I used to be the same way until I read all of the late Joe Bageant’s books — loaded with circumstantial and anecdotal evidence of the unmitigated misery that the bipartisan fence jockey centrist elites have imposed on us. Such evidence rarely sways such people as yourself (and your complementary opposites on the GOP side) — the rest of the world has to basically wait for a confession — a confession unlikely to come forward — in order for you folks to “evolve” … and even then, it’s not a given.
Which is paradoxically the fastest way for a guy to get rid of you — even if he doesn’t believe in the hokum, either … *LOL* You can trust me on that — it’s the only way I can get rid of a chick that I suspect is a Pieces or Cancer due to the clingy, needy, 10+ calls a day / 30+ text messages …
(Yeap – dry surly assed Capricorn meany here – gee, what gave that away, I wonder?!? Hey, don’t take it out me – it was a Scorpio that gave me the idea with the stipulation that I blame it on Aquarius and Taurus. But my Libran moon child won’t let that happen – to unfair to my fellow bulls and water-bearers. Sorry Scorpio – I know I suck. Can’t be helped!)
Please take your political discourse to another thread. Do not come to PUAC to disrupt. I will ask that you be removed.
Thank you.
No real “ghost” stories from me, but when I was younger I was capable of the occasional freaky stunt. For example:
I helped out one of my brothers with his paper route. One day, a gang of five boys from school thought it would be funny to pick on me as I was delivering papers. At one point, the attacks got so vicious that I told myself this: “I am going to count to ten. If they are still there when I’m done, I am not responsible for what happens next.”
When I’d finished counting to ten, I was on the top step of a four-step stoop, weighed down with about ten pounds of newspaper, with a closed gate between me and my nearest tormentor. The very next moment, I was on the other side of the fence and gate, I had slammed the little prick up against the fence, and was holding him there with just my right hand around his throat in a grip which he could not undo as I was kneeing him in the groin. I do not remember going through the gate or even jumping over it, and I was a sedentary girl weighed down with newspapers whereas he was a quick and athletic boy who could have easily outrun me if he’d wished. The only thing I can think of is that I must have somehow teleported to be where I needed to be.
As I was beating the shit out of the kid, I noticed two things: None of his buddies were coming to help him, and for some reason it seemed that he wasn’t really yelling for help all that loudly; the latter thing is why he’s still alive today, as I figured that I must be choking him to death and so let go my grip. Turns out that in fits of extreme anger, the blood vessels feeding the ears close up to an extent; my brother, who had watched the whole thing, said that the kid was screaming for help at the top of his lungs even as his fair-weather friends were running away from the suddenly-very-scary girl as fast as they could.
That was the last time anyone ever dared pick on me. ;-)
Other strange things I could do: I would be walking along, minding my own business, and suddenly, without any outside prompting, start thinking strongly of someone or something. If it was a friend or relative, that meant I would either soon see them or hear from (or about) them; if it was a place or thing, this meant that it would be on the evening news that night. This still happens to me to an extent, but I suspect my brain’s too barnacle-encrusted nowadays to be an efficient event receptor.
My mother has similar abilities. She always knew when something bad happened to one of us kids because she’d be sitting at her desk at work when she’d get this slammed-in-the-gut feeling — right before a phone call from the school principal. And of course, like all mothers, her kids have the ability to stare her awake: To this day, any of us can go into a room where she’s sleeping and, without making a sound or doing anything to change the light level in the room, literally stare her awake.
Hey PW! Excellent post upstairs btw.
‘Morning all, just in from planting various natives and got caught up. My dream memory recalls summer vacations before I was 10. I’d self-hypnotize watching the rhythmic rise and fall of the power lines outside the wagon window (I never asked if we were “there yet”). I dreamed that I rode my bike, up/down, on those lines — not flying exactly, but what a blast! Years later it dawned on me that I never actually did that…
On Alexandria: the now very obscure but impressive 2009 Spanish film Agora is set there in the 4th century AD. The set is not digital, but was constructed on Malta. The destruction of the Library occurs in the film (in which Christians are not good guys). We were fortunate to see it in a theatre, although it was never in wide release in the US. Highly recommended!
Thanks!
“Bobby Thompson” is the stuff of legend — how many people nowadays in this documentation-crazy age can manage to conceal their true identity without help from a government intelligence agency? — yet the local establishment media couldn’t care less about him. Reminds me of the cone of silence set up around Katrina “Parlor Maid” Leung, longtime California Republican, lover of CIA agent James Smith, and secret operative of the People’s Republic of China.
Ah, Wrigley Field.
Margaret,
Thanks and for your hosting as well. A thoroughly enjoyable thread. And yup, I’ve read all 157 comments and which is a first for me.
Jaango
Sorry about being late to the party, but here it is:
If I am responding to you on this web-site and knowingly find myself pleasantly amused by 157 prior comments made by people (just an assumption on my part) who in many cases have adopted names out of a well worn stack of 1950’s Marvel comics, then I am not only strange but I and the rest of you have already done post PhD. in strangeness.
Have a nice day all my fellow strangenesses
Thanks for stopping by and I’m glad that you enjoyed it.
I have yet to see scientific evidence to explain and back the phenomenon of love.
Great topic, Margaret, thank you.
And thank you everybody for stopping by.
Very enjoyable thread, thanks, Margaret. Must be off on the weekend battle against the encroachment of entropy…!
Thanks for hosting! Give Kuro an extra ear skritch or two from me.
She’s hiding in her spot right now but I’ll be sure to give her an extra or two. Thanks for coming by! :)
I hope it’s okay if I belatedly add a strange attitudinal realization about “things scientific” with respect to what’s up there (came to mind when ‘observing’ the transit of venus on my son’s bedroom wall). I realized then that maybe the ancients got it right, far righter than we moderns do, concerning the astronomical canopy we observe above us – that it is indeed a curtain or an actual canopy as far as what really is out there, simply because what we observe is no longer there, often by factors of billions of years.
Trying to think how we actually can scientifically know what is taking place in real time ‘out there’, and I suppose we must follow trajectories, make predictions from what we perceive has happened in the long, long ago. It’s a great mind bender. What we see is not really what is there, is my point. (I think it goes along with quantum physics and not falling through my chair.)
But I don’t have any weird encounters to report, only quite a number of marvelously significant dreams that I love to suppose might be influenced somewhat by outside forces. (Other than what I had for dinner.)
:)
Plasma is the fourth state of matter. Solid, liquid, gas and plasma. Almost all of the visible matter in the universe is plasma (stars).
Fire is not technically a plasma. Just a small point.