During the campaign, Obama promised to end the Bush tax cuts on the rich. In late November, he started waffling:
A member of the Obama economic advisory team, William M. Daley, acknowledged that because of the gravity of the situation, Mr. Obama was leaning toward letting a Bush tax cut for the wealthy expire on schedule in 2011 rather than repealing it sooner.
And this from a press conference on December 11:
And I have not made yet a determination in terms of how we’re going deal with the rollback of the Bush tax cuts for the wealthiest Americans. That’s part of the charge that I’ve given to my economic advisers working in concert with our health care team.
The other morning on Scarborough, the new person at CNBC’s morning show told us that pay cuts are already happening at big companies because of economic stress. So, she said, it probably won’t be necessary to raise taxes to correct the income disparities that even she admitted are a problem.
This is from the Saturday’s NYT:
The biggest question is whether Barack Obama will go ahead with his plans to increase income and capital gains taxes on affluent families — those making $250,000 a year or more — soon after he becomes president. With the economy in such trouble, he may decide it’s better to delay any action.
Rolling back the Bush tax cuts for the rich is a promise Obama must keep. It’s a matter of fundamental fairness. The repubs promised that if we cut taxes on the rich we would see a blast of investment that would bring in new revenues and budget surpluses. Instead, we got steadily rising deficits under Reagan and Bush I, followed by improvement under the fiscally disciplined Clinton administration:
| Reagan | added $1.94tn to the National Debt |
| Bush I | added $1.16tn to the National Debt |
| Clinton | subtracted $14.2bn from the National Debt |
And then we got Bush the Incompetent, who, through December 17, has added a staggering $4,927,775,329,129.06. To top that off, the Wall Street moguls Bush served so well wrecked the economy. Much of that $4.92tn is the direct result of the stupid policies adopted by the incompetent administration at the direct request of Wall Street and its legions of lobbyists bearing campaign contributions.
Only one group benefited from these policies. The income of the top 1% has risen dramatically since 1980. Look at the results of Berkeley economist Emmanuel Saez and Thomas Piketty of the École Normale Supérieure in Paris, the leaders in this area. They define income as “the sum of all income components reported on tax returns (wages and salaries, pensions received, profits from businesses, capital income such as dividends, interest, or rents, and realized capital gains)”. They exclude government transfers like social security.
There is criticism of their work, some of which is described by Yves Smith, but to me the critic’s arguments smell like they were bought and paid for.
The share of income of the top 10% of households is fairly stable at around 33% from about 1950 to 1980. It begins to rise under Ronald Reagan, and continues to rise steadily through 2006 (the most recent data available), when it reaches 50%. In 2006, you were in the top 10% if you earned $104,700, and in the top 5% if you earned $148,400.
The rise for the top one percent is even more shocking. This group gets 10% of all income during the early Reagan years, and then they really start raking it in. By 2006, this tiny group, whose worst off member got $382,600, gets 23% of all income. Practically all of the growth in the top decile comes from the steep rise enjoyed by the richest 1%, as shown by Saez’ Figure 2.
Ian has made this point, that gains from productivity are going to the very high income people, and not to the workers. Saez provides the following information about the growth of real annual income in his Table 1.
| Period | Average Income Growth | Top 1% Growth | Bottom 99% Growth |
|---|---|---|---|
| 1993-2006 | 1.9% | 5.7% | 1.1% |
| 1993-2000 | 3.7% | 10.1% | 2.4% |
| 2002-2006 | 2.8% | 11.0% | 0.9% |
Edited and reformatted, footnotes omitted.
The chart shows what we all know: Democrats are better for most Americans than repubs, and this whole idea of trickle-down benefiting everyone is just wrong. In the Clinton years, the income gains to the top 1% were just four times greater than gains to the bottom 99%, compared to the era of worker hating, when the top 1% made eleven times the gains of the bottom 99%. When the figures for 2007 are released, we can expect even greater gains for the greedy rich.
The data shows that the top 10% have done really well over the past few years, and government has done really well for them. The rest of us are going to suffer, but their wealth, however obtained, will protect them. Now we need money to pay for their bailouts, their Ponzi schemes and their wars. It’s time for them to pay for the benefits they took.
Obama must keep his promise in order to make sure that everyone contributes to the solution. There are millions of us who gave him money during the campaign. Many of us gave more that we really thought we could afford, and we did it in part so he wouldn’t be indebted to big money. We expect him to act like it. The Bush tax cuts for the rich must be terminated as the first order of business. We can raise rates later in the year.



65 Comments




this is a great post and a great point but the the way the obama camp and all democrats are frasing this falls right into the lap of the republicans
reagan raised taxes he did not lower them and bush’s “taax cuts” actually raised taxes at the local level overall, he did not lower taxes at all
when the government starts giving us back more money then we give them THEN they can start saying they lowered taxes, untill then, every time they “lower taxes” and at the same reduce government spending more then they lower taxes then they have in fact raised taxes
here’s how the obama camp nees to frame this plan;
“bush did not lower taxes at all, his plans only redistributed taxes at a net gain not a net loss
we plan on reducing taxes back to the levels before bush took offics and then try to reduce taxes back to the levels before reagan raised them as well
that will put this country back on track as an economy with an engine driven by the middle class, the economy that made this nation the envy of all economies”
bing
masaccio, thanks very much for the post and link.
I just posted this, “Do the Wealthiest Americans pay 97% of federal income taxes as the National Taxpayers Union asserts?”, because a physician on another blog is taking it to me with these numbers. I can’t find a link to refute their numbers.
If anyone has any comebacks, I would be very grateful.
Bush raised taxes on the poor, that’s for sure.
I don’t see any incompetence in this “administration”. they got everything that Osama bin Laden asked them for.
We’ve been looted and now Obama is going to continue the giveaway on the backs of the poor who’ve increased exponentially as the rich get richer.
If I were KING I’d increase taxes on those making a million bucks or more. $250,000? You can barely live on that anymore. But, he won’t do that either. I don’t know where he thinks he’s going to borrow the $$ for his initiatives?
China to the Rescue? Not!
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/12…..ef=opinion
Recommended and Dugg !!
The “People” Cannot afford to allow the top 1% to take 23% of all the gross income of the country. they must be made to pay their fair share of taxes so we can rebuild our country and Economy. Everyone must share in the costs and benefits of our Economy not just the top!
Dugg, thanks for opening the link.
masaccio, thanks very much for the very helpful comment you left on my diary.
All I can say is ‘Stick Em Up”.
What comes around goes round baby, it’s your turn .
The amount of wealth redistribution that has happened in the last eight years is mind boggling, more than the combined GDP of twenty countries.
You betcha I think it’s a good idea.
Its more than fairness its about the Dollar dropping even more in value as wages remain stagnant.
Its about America’s ability to borrow money at a lower interest rate because as our debt grows our creditors will want more return for the risk of lending to us (in a sense by not raising taxes we raise taxes MORE by increasing the National debt and interest rates).
Its about the Dollar dropping and the Euro replacing the Dollar as the World’s reserve currency.
Its about interest rates increasing and the effect that WILL have to slow our economy.
Sorry to go O/T – sort of. I haven’t read yet but will do so soon.
If you’d like to know your congresscritters’ records measured in Progressive values go to ProgressivePunch dot (org, I think). It shows
House and Senate or both. Enter your zip code. Very interesting.
BBL.
Too true…! Historically, the wealth disparity today between the Haves and the Have-nots mirrors the Dapper Twenties levels, and, similarly ushers in a protracted era of misery…! We need another FDR to step up now!!!
what issue? there is no question. There are no democrats anymore. They all work for the corporate junta now and it has been decreed that the middle class is to be reduced to a much lower standard and the rich to take much more. So if there is going to be a more equitable tax system it won’t be initiated by any of these people. Toast,finito
I think Obama is thinking he has two big fights on his hands right out of the box in the near trillion dollar stimulus and expanding the health care system so it’s better not to pick another fight on taxes when simply waiting will have the same effect delayed at most 1 year. The budget deficit isn’t a problem that should be front and center in any debate as long as the country is in recesssion. I know eventually the US is going to have to pay the bills but it’s not going to happen in the next 12 months for damn sure.
I wouldn’t say that our system of government is very resilient at the moment. The strain of doing many worthy things at once, while right in each instance, is wrong in the whole. Do one or two big things, then another one or two, that’s progress. One of the big things will be a fairer tax code but it will almost certainly come from it’s expiration under the law, not through a fight in the Senate.
Bush had 8 years to prove that tax cuts for the rich would benefit the economy so much we would not need to raise taxes to pay for Bush’s war for oil.
Now we STILL have to pay for the war for oil. Lets increase taxes it worked for FDR.
Letting the tax cuts sunset is ok with me.
But I prefer otherwise
letting THESE tax cuts sunset is ok but I want the reagan tax INCREASES to be rescinded
“trickle down” is flawed in it’s very concept
all wealth comes from the bottom up, wealth came from the earth in the first place, it started at the bottom it cannot possibly “tricke down” in fact it “migrates up”
We need to demand the GOP answer how will we pay the debt they created by backing Bush every step of the way in a losing war that we are now stuck paying for.
Its sad that Bush to burnish his legacy is now hoping for another Terror attack on Obama’s watch just to say I told you so.
I want Congressional hearings on why we did not go after Ossama and went into Iraq instead. I want the fake Niger Uranium story investigated.
Great Idea!
Pick a fight? he owns both houses of congress… Don’t forget that the uber wealthy that earn from interest and stocks have their income as capital gains regardless of how much they rake in.
We need to a progressive tax and we need to tax wealth AND inheritances more. The rich not only can afford to pay taxes but have been getting away with not paying with specual laws and tax shelters.
All of this has to end.
Politically tax cuts for the middle class and tax increases for the rich will be very popular. I want the GOP to try and defend that after the bank bailout.
I don’t care how hard it is. The rest of us are hurting. What the hell are the rich doing to make it better? I’ll tell you. They want to make money hand over fist. Their greed is absolutely unbounded. That means they won’t lend unless the interest rates meet their hurdle rate. So, they want guarantees. And look at the way Cerebus is manipulating the Chrysler situation. Why is it that only workers and productive people get hurt when the rich financiers feel a bit of stress.
When will we see something from President-Elect Pragmatic that shows his committment to our issues?
We should be seeing some class warfare in congress. But I don’t think it will play there. Who will represent the lower and middle class? We know who speaks for the rich – congress!
Yeah and tax moving income to other countries like by incorporating your American company in another country to avoid taxes we need a tariff on those companies a big one.
talk about GREAT ideas, THAT is how the democrats need to talk to these repukelicans
for starters, these tax cuts have to be rolled back right away… it’s unclear to me what if any consumer purchasing benefit might be derived from keeping them in place… nobody, not even the moderately affluent, are buying much of anything so I fail to see how taxing a fairly small number of people at fairer levels will hurt the economy somehow.
But all of this begs a much bigger issue: how to reduce America’s ridiculously wide gini coefficient/gap between the richest and the poorest. This requires concerted attention on education, innovation, real productivity growth, capital spending priorities and tax policy, and one hopes that team Obama has such a plan in mind as he looks to structure his trillion dollar stimulus package. The time to take a good poke at the inequality problem is now.
Meanwhile, from the lower end of the income pool, some gratuitous off topic schadenfraude: Wassila police have arrested Bristol’s mother in law on drug charges. No word from Bible Spice.
Greed is a real disease and it is contagious. You catch it in top restaurants, first class anything, private clubs, luxury cars, hotels and yachts, jewelry stores and designer boutiques.
How about a retro active tax on tax sheltered income?
And outlaw awarding government contracts to those who do move or are located elsewhere.
holy crap, the white house has the NERVE to slam the nytimes for blaming this economy on bush
wow
this is like the shark slamming someone for calling it a carnivore
by rescinding the reagan tax increases which redistributed the tax burden that’s how
by giving tariff to companies who exported jobs overseas that’s how
by making the union concept and collective bargaining the default that workers have to opt out of rather then opt into, that’s how
is there a cure? or at least a treatment?
Every single post I agree with goes down in flames in reality. Let me see how to phrase it better. I wish I agreed wholeheartedly with some of the plans that none of us like, because the ideas we all like seem to be dead on arrival with Obama’s transition.
As I understand it, Obama is NOT going to follow through on his promise to roll back the tax cuts for the wealthy. From all that I’ve read those tax cuts will stay in effect, end of story. I’d like to be wrong.
me likey
how bout calling these taxes;
“asset reclamation” instead of “taxes”, or “bill you didn’t pay under the bush administration” rather then “taxes”
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Hal was over $50 a share and now its at $17.51 according to the 5 year google finance chart!
Bwahahaha!
*sob*
Tax Hal no more hiding in the Cayman Islands!
Agreed!
This is a great post. I’ll just never understand why, “social issues” aside, so many middle class people believe that they will be, indeed they are helped, by the trickle down approach which makes no secret of saying “this is not for you, but hang in there and maybe you’ll get something out of it.”
Yes!
I agree. I like the terminology that Biden used: a tax cut “shift” from upper to working and middle class. Roll back Bush cuts for upper income, and do a full-employment revenue neutral offsetting cut for lower income brakets. I am not familiar enough with details for those brakets that don’t pay enough to be cut right now (refundable tax credits? Anyway, if they don’t pay enough, in effect, a negative income tax).
Whe economy doing better and long run deficit issue becomes important again, then restore upper income marginal tax rates to at least Reagan levels.
Now might be a good time. I just heard Jackie Speier on the news claiming that some banks have paid out the full value of their bailout bucks to executives. I will check the KCBS internet site and try to find that interview, which should be archived there soon.
If we hear cries of socialism, then we can suggest Jefferson’s idea of a wealth tax geometrically increasing with personal wealth (he was thinking specifically of land, but we need to modernize the concept for modern day economics). Then ask the rich if they would like that better.
BTW, massacio, I think you had a post about Rick Warren the other day and I was so sick of reading about that sack-o’-shit, I said some cranky things to you for having written it. My bad. Sorry. maybe it was someone else.
unfortunately those measures would not even begin to make he type of impac I believe is needed. The gini coefficient has been moving in the wrong direction for almost a generation, and only fundamental and incredibly painful will change things. A few new taxes and tariffs and strengthening of unions would be using a fingernail to reinforce a failing levee. The economy requires structural adjustment – a redistribution large enough to, say, move the ranks of the college educated from 1/4th to 40-50% in a generation, and create the jobs they will demand from real productivity and innovation led growth: new industries, massive regional renewal initiatives, etc. Yes, we’ll need to tax and reinforce social insititutions like he unions to help us do this, but they’re just the very beginning of the beginning. A huge stimulus package is the time to be thinking and confronting these larger issues.
True, but hasn’t the basic Reagan income tax structure been in place for almost a generation now? I agree the other things you mentioned are important, but I am afraid some are minimizing the impact of policy variables like tax structure.
We must sell tax increases on the rich as a way of defending the value of the Dollar and as a way to keep interest rates down.
There is a relationship between debt and interest rates interest rates go up the more it looks like you can’t pay.
The value of the Dollar goes down as we print more money to service our debt which means the price of everything we buy goes up.
I think reverting the tax policy as you suggest, but without restoration of any of pre-reform loopholes that benefited the very rich until the 80s, would help. But this can’t just be about tax poliy, which lags structural change,not leads it. The additio al revenues that would follow from tax reform have to systematically deployed for real, more equatably districuted growth.. and that means reforming everything from healthcare and housing finance to the basic processes for how corporate investment decisions are made and how they are made. In other words, we need what the rethugs hate the most – not just taxes and tax reform — but a comprehensive, integrated industrial policy.
Thanks for reminding me about the loopholes. I agree that an industrial policy is needed. Even if one does not like that idea in “normal” times, I think there is definite and very strong evidence that messed up capital markets over last decade have resulted in grotesque misallocation of capital. That has to have some serious impacts on I guess what would be called “micro” capital structure.
Absolutely beautiful commentary. As spot on as is possible.
Time to suit up for the class war Richistan has been waging on the rest of us for decades!
Lets go back to Eisenhower tax rates — let them keep a dime for every dollar over a million.
As long as it’s not ‘Brooks Suits’, Teddy…! ;-)
Just whenever talking to the press, and especially during interviews, politicians and talking heads should call it a “tax shift”, in order to cut off the filthy-rich big media pundits from (essentially) incoherent and frightened whining about their income tax rates on the air.
how bout “retroactive taxation/overdue costs”?
we have retroactive immunity. let’s let fly with the retroactive chit.
we ARE needing a cleanup of the last 8+ years!
just “go back” and “get the money BACK!”
I’ve heard crazier from Bu$hCo!
The gini coefficient is an important issue. Maybe you could put up an Oxdown Gazette diary discussing it and the comparisons between the number here and and overseas.
oh hell!
sorry sanderO.
i didn’t read alllll the comments when i jumped in.
but that WAS the first thing that crossed MY mind.
i owe ya drinky poo.
:)
That hopefully doesn’t involve Mangini.
“I don’t care how hard it is!”
Admirable sentiment, and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I also want world peace and a wine cellar, but they cannot be gotten without considerable effort, sacrifice, or patience.
I know if you say the word ‘pragmatic’ around here many consider you as big a Nazi as, say, Barack Hitler Obama — but goddammit, sometimes things actually cannot be rammed through without concern for present realities.
I say let the fucking things sunset — it’s what, another year? I am by no means an economist, but if someone can tell me why the actual cost of this outweighs the possible political gain of giving these assholes one less bullet in their rhetorical arsenal, of making the American public feel that Obama’s being MORE than ‘fair’ to the uber-rich and thus gaining support for his future moves, great. Let them sunset and then let the Repubs fight for them while the breadlines are growing longer and the soup kitchens run out of wet-naps.
I for one am willing to delay sweet vengeance for one more year if it helps to make the victory a lasting one.
Well, that’s why we need the diary, so we can find out.
Are you saying the American people give one rat’s about the taxation of the rich? Do you think the UAW folks care? Do you think those college grads who can’t find work, those increasing numbers of unemployed and underemployed care?
How hard is it to explain what I wrote in fewer words? I can put it on a bumper sticker: Tax the people with money!
Is this person aware that the pay cuts usually start with the people at the bottom and then work up the ladder?
here are my suggestions for Obama:
- comprehensive tax reform optimizing for growth with equity (growth in employmet and income for the greatest possible number – no more trickle down crap
- employee free choice
- regional, sectoral and industrial growth targetting using the cluster model, including massive public investment in various types of technology foundry capability (which would then be publicly or
cooperatively owned) and massive funding for local cluster-based economic development initiatives (a huge CDBG program for industrial growth)
- creation of worker-led growth and innovation cooperatives (like the freelancers’ guild)
- comprehensive educational and education financing reform
- transition of stimulus infrastructure jobs into permanent new types of companies and industries (green tech or whatever(, possibly with a big public ownership component
- break the back of anti competitive elements in big business; require employee and community represetation on corporate boards, breaking the back of the CEO class; rigorous prosecution of anti-competitive behavior in the future; break up failing companies and give them to the workers
- limit LBO takeovers, limit the growth in corporate acqusition leverage coming out of the recession, at least until structural
changes take root, probably by a combination of disclosure controls and punitive corporate taxation
- regulate hedge funds
- limit OBS risk management to publicly underwritten derivatives (in other words, the government would be the only allowable counterparty for credit and forex mgmt derivatives)
ok, now haul me away for embracing market socialism…..
-
by the way.. no is the right time to begin thinking about this type of massive change. Normally, housing is the most problematic element in enacting a comprehensive industrial policy and, as the Netherlands, Singapore, Sweden, Spain, Uk and Sth Korea have found, pretty much sucked away any stimulus infra spending hat might’ve gone into new or upgraded foundries/plants, industrial restructuring and productive infrastrucure, and education reform. But we have a massively oversupplied housing market and enough market based product delivery capability now idled, pent up and ready to go as soon as the foreclosure crisis is fixed by government and once real growth starts to pick up. this is a unique opportunity.
Let me fix that for you:
Is this person aware
that the pay cuts usually start with the people at the bottom and then work up the ladder?I’d suggest at the very least making all that bailout money that went to paying Executive salaries or benefits taxable at about 110% rates.
Don’t just tax — confiscate.
If there’s anything the last few months have proven hopelessly wrong, it’s the idea that the rich need to have low taxes because they invest that untaxed wealth in ways that create jobs. Excuse me, the best evidence is that they “invest” in pyramids. Even the purchase of stock on a secondary exchange like the NYSE capitalizes exactly nothing, and creates zero jobs. It’s a side bet. The best one could say for income from “capital gains” on the stock market is that it should be taxed at the same rate as gambling and lottery winnings.
But the wealthy have not been content lately to “invest” in relatively harmless gambles like equities. They’ve gone in for nth order derivatives even further removed from the real economy, and any regulatory oversight, and both of those factors combined to make these instruments of economic mass destruction. It’s not merely the case that we should have steeply progressive taxation because wealth contributes nothing to society — we need to confiscate wealth because it forms a positive danger to society to have all of these rich fools out there with way more money than they have any use for, or any idea how to put to use without hurting themselves and others.
On the plus side, we now know that when the rich invest in pyramids, they sometimes lose, big-time.