Tweet
I write to warn everyone that President Obama likely intends to start a war with Iran before the November election even though two days ago,
(a) Secretary of Defense, Leon Panetta, admitted that Iran is enriching uranium for peaceful purposes and not attempting to develop a nuclear weapon; and
(b) Chief of the Defense Intelligence Agency, Lieutenant General Ronald Burgess, admitted that Iran is unlikely to start a war on its own.
Jason Ditz at antiwar.com reports today,
Officials say Obama has been telling Israel he wants to “give sufficient time” to the current round of sanctions before starting the war, though they say that in the end the result will start be a war because Iran is “behaving like sanctions don’t matter.”
Ditz further reports that,
Obama advisers are now calling September or October the “sweet spot.”
For additional information on what I believe to be Obama’s complete capitulation to corporate America’s lust for unfettered access to Iranian oil and his decision to act in “lockstep” with Israel, allowing Netanyahu to drag us into an aggressive, unnecessary and illegal war with Iran in order to assure that he defangs the eventual Republican nominee for president and wins the November election, please listen to this 24-minute interview of David Bromwich by Scott Horton at antiwar.com.
Also, please take a few minutes to read Bromwich’s article at the Huffington Post titled, Obama’s Drift Toward War In Iran.
88 Comments
Editorial Note: Historically, people have come together and voted to retain an incumbent president during wartime, evidently fearing that electing a new president would be destructive to the war effort.
Just as Bismark stole the socialist’s thunder, Obama keeps stealing and adopting right wing talking points. The right wing wants war with Iran and the lapdog media is vigorously pounding the war drum and spinning lies to whip up a frenzy for war.
Will Obama act honorably and stand-up to the right wing noise machine and their bellicose candidates for president and declare that war is not an option, since Iran is not attempting to build a nuclear bomb?
Of course he won’t.
Does he care how many innocent people will die as the result of his desire to win a second term?
Of course, he doesn’t.
Therefore, his decision to preempt the right wing Republicans by going to war with Iran will leave we the people, who oppose unnecessary and illegal wars of aggression for natural resources that benefit US multinational corporations and the criminal banks that own them, with no choice in the matter except to take to the streets to express our horror and disgust.
And one more thing.
Write these words in blood: Whatever Israel wants, Israel gets.
Until we say, “Enough!”
What are your thoughts on the following question:
Are Israel’s fears of a nuclear Iran justified or justifiable?
Hi Fred and thanks.
No, they aren’t justified or justifiable, because the IAEA that actively monitors Iran’s nuclear program, all of our intelligence agencies, and the Secretary of Defense agree that Iran is not attempting to build a nuclear weapon.
How about in five years?
It Works for SONS-OF-BUSHS!
If Mason is correct in his warning, and the evidence of THIS nation’s past behavior suggests that he is not, then NONE of us have “five years” to engage in polemical “worrying”, doremus, in supposing the evil in others which we daily manifest around this world.
However, let us not beat “around” any bushes or obamas, why do you not make clear YOUR “fears” or worries?
Indeed, why stop at “five years”, why not say, “or in ten years, fifteen or twenty”, in fact, why not go whole hog and say “one hundred years” or even “at ANY time in the future, forever”?
We know, all of us, that Iran is not threatening war. Israel and the US are threatening war.
The real “fears”, if honestly you’ve got them, should be attached to actual reality.
Let me put it to you this way; in the last five years, the last ten years, the last fifteen year, of these three countries, Iran, Israel, and the United States of America … which have started wars?
No doubt, these thoughts will be of little use or value to any who are prejudiced in favor of certain nations or “philosophies”, quite apart from actual reality.
BTW, Mason, I thank you for making clear the danger which we all, all human beings on planet Earth, face.
Recommended to the attention and thoughtful consideration of everyone at FDL, regardless of allegiance, prejudice, or opinion.
When this nation, the USA is, finally, brought to a long overdue justice, and let us hope that we will not be subject to the same “medicine” we happily, if mindlessly, inflict upon others, then all “good” Americans may explain to everyone else in the world, how the behavior of this nation was not of their choosing. But what, in the name of reason or humanity, will they say that might excuse the fact that all those “good”, comfortable Americans did NOT understand the true human and bloody cost of war and chose, instead, to ignore the wounding and killing of others , at “OUR” hands?
Will THAT take five years or generations to “live down”?
DW
All aggressive wars are prohibited by international law. Wars are permissible only if reasonably necessary in self-defense, or defense of another nation.
We enter a murky area when we consider the issue of taking preemptive action to prevent an act of war by another nation. At the very least, a decision to go war must be reasonable. That is, it must be based on the existence of credible objective evidence that another country has the present ability and the intent to initiate a war of aggression.
There is no credible objective evidence that Iran has the present ability and the intent to attack Israel, the United States, or any other nation.
On the other hand, there is evidence that the US and Israel are supporting MEKK, an organization in Iran that seeks regime change. The US also has labeled MEKK as a terrorist organization. That it would support MEKK to destabilize the theocratic regime that runs Iran, does not reflect favorably on our government’s intent, which appears to be to overthrow the Iranian government or provoke it into committing an act of self-defense that can be misconstrued as requiring war in self-defense.
I don’t believe your 5-year time period is a relevant consideration.
I’m not a fan of the Iranian government, but I am a fan of the Rule of Law that does not support attacking Iran.
My guess…
Obama will start a war with Iran in order to get elected… and you will take to the streets and whine and complain… and then come election time… you will REWARD Obama for all his corruption and betrayal by voting for him.
Thats the problem. In the most brainless act ever… brainwashed American voters continue to vote for and reward their corrupt oppressors. That’s my new difinition of insanity.
…definition…
Perhaps, jbabe will not overmuch mind if I link to a delightful and education diary put up today?
http://my.firedoglake.com/jbade/2012/02/18/video-documentary-dont-tell-my-mother-i-am-in-iran.
Well worth a look and a listen.
DW
I’d be interested in seeing you explore the other side of the coin a little bit, vis a vis whether the US is even capable, politically and economically, of engaging in a war of Iran. Our international reputation is in tatters; international reaction would be extremely negative; if it didn’t go well right away (and I bet it wouldn’t) the public will sour on it really fast; economic uncertainty unmanageable by the US. Starting a war with Iran would really begin the process of cementing out status as a pariah state, and be economically stupid. I’d have to think that people in Washington, even in their little bubble, would have to realize at least this much, right?
From the Bromwich piece you linked to:
Here’s where we can see, in more than one way, how things “really are”. The Israelis and Americans both know that they don’t have enough to initiate an offensive war against Iran; the political and economic implications of that I already covered a little. They’re hoping that the Iranians give them an excuse.
That seems to be their strategy. It probably won’t work.
What the mullahs really care about is staying in power. They can do that one of two ways –
One, deliver a rising standard of living and relative peace and calm.
Two, allow and/or create a climate of fear with an enemy to point to and soldier on being the least bad option, and therefore retaining power.
I think they’d prefer door number one, but they’ll take door number two. I don’t think it’s in the Iranians interest to give their enemies an excuse.
I don’t really know what’s going to happen, and there’s a bunch of questions I haven’t addressed, but I have a hard time seeing even the Israelis openly, or even through a false flag, starting a war with Iran. I just can’t get there. These are lunatic regimes we’re talking about (Israel and the US), I realize this, but I think there’s a lunatic continuum, and we’re just not that far down it.
Basically, I see two mitigating factors that make initiating a war with Iran look less likely. I look at China and Russia, and I cannot see them allowing us to go after Iran openly. The key here, I think, is that our relative international power has declined to the point where the Russians and Chinese have a de facto geopolitical veto over this sort of thing. Pretty much the same reason I can’t see us going into Syria.
The second is that I am counting on the soberness of the Iranian regime. These people are theocrats, that’s true, but they are sober, realistic theocrats, geopolitically speaking. I don’t think they are ever going to play their part in initiating a war like that.
I could also be dead wrong. What a disaster that would be.
A war with Iran would be World War Three, and any who “believe” otherwise make a most-fatal and deadly mistake.
The Iranian people are NOT terrorists.
I say that having known a number of Iranians, all of whom told me about their family’s experience with Savak, the secret police “WE” set up for the Shah’s father … AFTER “WE” deposed Mossedegh in 1953.
Truth to tell, one outer, “we” are the terrorists.
Might you be willing to click on the link to jbade’s diary?
It would be worth your while, I assure you.
DW
That should be “jbade”.
My apologies, the mind-finger synapse is “fluctuating” a wee bit this afternoon …
DW
“However, let us not beat “around” any bushes or obamas, why do you not make clear YOUR “fears” or worries?”
What me worry?
Fears and worries?
Regardless of my concerns, this little rock will continue to spin.
The greedy will continue to steal.
Mankind will continue to enjoy killing its own kind.
War will be a perpetual feature of human existence.
And the concept of fair will eternally be a place where pigs compete for blue ribbons.
So, let me turn your question around a bit:
What are you not afraid of?
The only part I’m in disagreement with is your judgment that going to war will win him the election while I can’t think of a better way for him to lose it. Because Republicans aren’t going to vote for him no matter what and most of his base is already unhappy with him. I don’t think even the Kossacks would be on board the Obama goes to war with Iran bandwagon. I believe the toady media has been instructed to sell a war with Iran, to begin shortly after the election. Just my .02
Be prepared for pushback: At today’s protest against a war on Iran, I held a sign that read, “Divorce Israel”. I got a couple of hostile responses but one more telling and indicative of the propaganda than the other: The driver stopped to ask me if I knew about the Holocaust. Then he called me an anti-semite using some colorful adjectives. This brainwash theme ties Israeli immunity to the victim status of Jewish people in Europe during WW II. How do you equate the tragedy of the holocaust with the aggressive actions of the leaders of Israel? Starting a world war or even a war of two nations is a “war crime”. How does using Jewish history justify Israeli leaders’ threats to commit war crimes in 2012? Do you get a pass to be evil because long ago some of your ancestors had ‘evil’ done to them??
I am not afraid of those who can happily joke about the nuclear vaporization of other human beings, as you did on jbade’s diary.
Frankly, doremus, I overestimated both the depth and the breadth of your compassion and understanding.
And, no, it will NOT be “ever thus” …
The human experience and deepest striving is to “become” … to learn and to “understand” the nature of change, to cherish life and love.
Else humankind will perish from this earth … however,in that case, as you allude, the earth will abide.
It is sad you’ve so little to imagine or to live for.
After ten-thousand years of “endless” war … I assure you that MANY of the rest of us do have much to imagine, to create, and to live, and if necessary, to die for. Humankind has not yet even begun to imagine the fullness of its potential, and the hateful little beings who seek wealth and power are daily revealing both their weakness and their insanity. Potential will prevail, and “investments” in discouragement and destruction are going to come “up” very “short”, indeed, and ultimately, will be discarded as pompous, empty palaver, and pathetic “efforts” to control.
You’ve my continuing condolences for possessing such a bitter and meager grasp, such a warped, unhappy, and curtailed sensibility.
DW
My sense, Margaret, is that it is not Mason’s judgement that war will win Obama the election, but possibly that of Obama and those who “advise” him.
I consider that you are correct, such a calculation would NOT win Obama the election and, if he pursues such madness, for such it most clearly is, after the election, then he will fare no better.
The only purpose such a war might have, politically, beyond some mindless assumption of electoral “victory” is as “diversion” to deflect understanding from the gutting of civil society – but it is far too late for such a trick to work as it did when Vietnam was attacked to quell the rising question of economic justice.
That concern for economic justice and a disgust with war are at the highest level and with most articulate grasp that I have ever seen in this country.
Those in the bubble ignore this truth, not at our peril, or even that of the world … but at their own.
DW
Yeah, after re-reading I get that impression too.
This reply is to DWBARTOO @ 1:10 P.M.
“Frankly, doremus, I overestimated both the depth and the breadth of your compassion and understanding.
And, no, it will NOT be “ever thus”
The truly remarkable aspect of your response is that you know nothing about me:absolutely nothing.
And yet you make irresponsible pronouncements and consider their veracity to be self-evident.
Your unsupported pronouncements would suggest that you are unfamiliar with the literary power of understatement and irony and satire.
I never joke! But I have a tendency to say very serious things with a hint of humour to emphasize and exaggerate the painful truth of the underlying reality of my statements.
A nuclear war in the middle-East: unthinkable.
The vaporization of human beings: a crime against humanity.
The fascist governments of American and her allies: sad but true.
On the other hand, you seem to feel that if you beat your chest loudly enough and often enough and pounce on the words of other with the self-aggrandizing light of truth and Jesus in your eyes, you will show others the truth and the power and the glory of your point of view.
You will need better eyes and a more careful reading of my words to even begin to understand where I stand on all issues.
I have a great deal of respect for Horton and his guest in the intervidew.
However.
The simple fact of the matter is that if Israel OR US want to attack Iran, there are four things that will stop them, aside from the specter of WW3 and flying nukes.
China
Russia
Pakistan
India
Not to mention all of Europe who depend on gas and oil coming from or will come thru, Iran.
I fully disagree with Horton and his guest.
If Obama sanctions an attack for re-election, it will be the end of the USA and the planet as we know it.
Not in terms of a nuke holacaust, altho nukes will fly.
But in terms of living standards for all of civilized and developed first and second world countries and their populations.
An attack on Iran is sheer suicide and pure fucking insanity.
I don’t buy it, Obama will NOT sanction this. No US President will . . . n the US population will not only rise and oppose it mightily to the point of mass rioting, they will also deeply feel it’s impact from food, jobs, shelter, and every thing that’s a part of our daily lives.
But thanks Mason . . . I’d seen Horton’s work on this at aw.com . . . seeing it again does not change my mind about it all.
Doremus, if I have been mistaken, then I apologize, but you must admit that your words to me at jbade’s diary, and your bitter words, here, about how you perceive the world to be, and as well, your question, above, to Mason, “How about in five years”, might lead any one of the rest of us to consider that you support Israel, and possibly, thereby, an attack on Iran.
Again, if I have misread your words, then I apologize. Perhaps you were but “playing” the devil’s advocate?
Nonetheless, I would not wish a heart attack upon you, nor suggest that, how did you put it on jbade’s diary, you “… fuck yourself to death”.
Perhaps, I have misunderstood, but have you not gone rather over-the-top in your response?
DW
As well, might you not realize that irony cannot be easily grasped through this medium, that satiric subtlety must, sometimes, be accompanied with a “snark” tag, thus “/s”?
Might you ponder these wee thoughts, as being worth consideration?
Likewise, doermus, you’ve, apparently, no idea as to my perspectives and know little or nothing about me.
However, you will note that I did not curse you nor suggest any “self-abuse”.
I appreciate your clarification and assure you that we are more aligned than you may, now, imagine … as regards “unthinkable”, “crimes against humanity”, and the fascist nature of America and her allies.
Doubtless, then, you share Mason’s concern and mine with the intentional and deliberate destruction of the Rule of Law?
Perhaps you might also agree with me that we have witnessed the undermining of the Constitution in such fashion as to term these actions both “high crimes” and “treason”?
Both of us, clearly are given to saying what we think and consider to be so.
I respect and value that, I assure you.
And, I most appreciate your making clear your true and unvarnished thoughts about the nature of what both of us, and every other human being on planet earth, now face … I would seem to be slightly more optimistic than you in some regards, but that is a result of living three score and five and having thought, seriously and very directly, about the human condition for somewhat more than fifty of those years.
Peace to you doremus, and respect, as well.
DW
DW:
No one enjoys being attacked. My comment to jbade’s diary was satire and indicated my fears and surely not my hope or wishes.
“…but have you not gone rather over-the-top in your response?”
Yes, over the top, down the valley, and back over the top.
You made statements which are not true and set yourself up as my moral judge.
You defamed my character when I have striven so very diligently to stand up all of my life for the underdog and the poor and the common man, of which I am but a simple example.
Regarding fornication: sometimes it takes harsh words to send a wakeup call to those who would judge unfairly..
For my harsh words I do apologize.
I have read your comments and we agree in principle in most cases.
With that I offer you a beer and a hand shake and a foxhole if you ever need one: I suspect we both could not want for better company or companionship.
Peace.
Agreed, doremus.
Should that time come, I would walk to the wall with you, knowing that our struggles and efforts were not in vain, and that what we both stand for … and against … matter … and might, very well and for the better, change the world …
Namaste
DW
You are mistaken.
Regardless whether Obama starts a war with Iran, please rest assured that there is no possibility that I will ever vote for him.
I will be voting third party, but I have not made up my mind which candidate I will vote for, other than to say it will not be Ron Paul. I am leaning toward Dr. Jill Stein.
A war with Iran right before the election is Obvious Wag the Dog action. kind of like how terror threat levels and terror plots always happened when Bush was President right before an election.
However who says we can win? Iran does not need to fight us all they need to do to hurt us is sink every oil tanker in the Persian Gulf.
Without oil without oil tankers to transport oil even if we win how long would it take to build more oil tankers?
How long would it take to clear the Persian Gulf of 100, 200 oil super tankers that have sunk to the bottom of the Gulf?
Why would Iranian speedboats, warships, subs etc go head to head with the American fleet when the oil our fleet needs is unprotected?
I agree you right about O planning a war but I think its important to point out there is a good chance we won’t win a war with Iran.
We lost Iraq we lost Afghanistan 10 years and all the billions in cash but not troops the generals asked for and we still lost.
Iran is bigger tougher than both countries.
seconded no more voting for lesser evils:)
“Perhaps you might also agree with me that we have witnessed the undermining of the Constitution in such fashion as to term these actions both “high crimes” and “treason”?”
I could not agree more and my friends are tired of my rants in support of your statement and our mutual position.
The power of satire is its ultimate betrayal of a powerful truth with its seeming banality of statement and logic of argument. If Swift prefaced ‘A Modest Proposal’ with a caution explaining it was snark, would we still be as shocked and disturbed by its ultimate message for mankind and the poor?
And a word about profanity: There are very few words which leave the listener with no doubt as to the intent of the speaker.
I on occasion, perhaps too often, subscribe to that point of view.
Alas, I am flawed just like the rest of the human condition.
Stan
Hi, Margaret.
Yes, you and DW are correct. I don’t believe it will win him the election and it’s theoretically possible that it might so infuriate voters that we would see an independent candidate emerge victorious as the consensus result of a protest vote.
Yeah, I know that’s a reach, but I can always dream, can’t I?
I’m just blown away to discover that anyone would refer to the 2-month period before the election as the “sweet spot” to start a war of aggression, which could turn into WW III and slaughter thousands upon thousands of innocent Iranians in a carpet bombing campaign, just to win an election.
2012 is the new 1914.
Sure feels like it, ET, nice catch . . . wonder which archduke will get shot to start it all THIS time . . . ;-)
This comment is not about you. What you said about being falsely accused of antisemitism struck a cord in me. That has happened to me and it’s annoying. Please bear with me as I engage in a mini-rant.
To accuse anyone of antisemitism, if they criticize Netanyahu and his government is stupid, ridiculous and absurd.
There are, for example, many Israeli Jews who criticize their government and they certainly are not antisemitic.
Ironically, criticism of Netanyahu and his War Party is tolerated more in Israel than it is here.
People who reflexively play the antisemitic card to manipulate and control others to do their bidding need to stop, reflect on what they are doing, and pledge to develop their critical thinking skills and practice evidence-based argument.
Yes, I am talking about Alan Dershowitz, who, among others, is one of AIPAC’s designated hitmen. I have had enough of the intimidation and fear game that he plays.
All of us need to grow up and deal respectfully with one another as mature adults focusing on the facts upon which we can agree or disagree while intelligently discussing the relative merits of the arguments based on those facts without calling each other names.
The world would be a far better place if all of us committed to following this process during these poisonous times.
After all, the path to a better world passes through questioning our own assumptions as well as questioning the authority of others and we don’t have to go through hell to get to heaven. `
Some grossly irresponsible and deeply disturbed people in high places are playing dangerous games with many innocent lives.
They need to stop acting like drag racing teenagers approaching the edge of a cliff at more than 100 mph waiting each other out to see who hits the brakes first.
Sorry, doremus. Well, then again, maybe not. When I read your comments, I was thinking of things you said on my diary of yesterday, and took your words quite literally:
doremus35 February 14th, 2012 at 7:26 pm «
“You bet your fucking ass. All of Germany should have been reduced to a desolate, salt encrusted landscape with a fence along its border warning those who enter that “Arbeit Macht Frei”
………………
doremus35 February 14th, 2012 at 7:31 pm «
“…all of the adults in Dresden reaped what they sowed and it’s abominable that children were orphaned,…”
Margaret:
You have once again earned my respect and admiration for saying it the way it really is/was.
The sad but true reality is that we didn’t let the Russians visit on the Germans that which the Germans visited on the Russians first.”
…………………………….
doremus35 February 14th, 2012 at 7:22 pm
“You must be fucking nuts!
When we are talking about the deaths at the hands of the German People, yes not just a few lunatic, fanatical Nazi, but the total complicity of the entire German population in the slaughter of 20-27 million Russians, 6 million Jews, 6 million Poles and only god knows how many gypsies and other ‘sub-humans not counting the dead soldiers and civilians in every country Nazi Germany invaded and occupied, and the bombing by Zeppelins of cities in England in WWI, and the saturation bombing of London and Coventry among other English cities, and the total destruction by the Luftwaffe of Stalingrad and Minsk to name just two Russian cities completely destroyed, and you want us to feel bad about the firebombing of German cities to force the surrender of one of the most monstrous criminal states in the annuals of the history of the world, I can only ask:
Are you fucking nuts?”
…………………………..
doremus35 February 14th, 2012 at 8:19 pm
“You can put as many spins on the topic as strikes your fancy.
You can call all Americans today, including yours truly, butchers of children throughout the world and you would be absolutely correct and for that I apologize to you and the universe, and I tell no lie.
But with over 45 years of study of WWII; intimate contact with the survivors of the death camps while teaching in Israel; and lecturing on comparative religion and the Holocaust at the university level, I can state, even handicapped with the sub-standard level of knowledge that I admittedly possess, that I will certainly burn in hell for what my country has done in my name;
however, then again,
the Germans ( 1933-1945), the good, the bad, and the ugly, to them Dante’s hell will be but a dip in a glacial pool, and only the incandescent wrath of ‘god’ will wash the stench of their foul sins from the nostrils of the human race.
Otherwise dear compatriot, have a very Happy Valentine’s Day, honest.”
……………………….
I assume I needn’t add more. You proved there who you are to me.
http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2012/02/14/67-years-ago-today-the-allies-firebombed-dresden/
And given your question, I may be nuts, but I do still have compassion for civilians who were firebombed, killed slowly and in utter agony by fire and suffocation, and I hate that some can’t separate out their hatred of Germans and find their own humanity.
Shortly after the elegant lawyer Mossadegh had the temerity to nationalize Iran’s oil in the early 50s, we deposed him in 1953 and installed Shah Reza Pahlavi to head a very, very compliant client state of Iran, which lasted for 25 years. We controlled the oil and forced the Shah to purchase our weapons and we turned a blind eye to his repression of his people. We were visibly pissed when the mullahtariat of Khomeini came to power in 1979 and threw our sorry asses out of Iran. In 1982, Iran announced to the world that it wanted to acquire nuclear technology and every year since Israel has yammered that Iran was 6 mos. to a year from acquiring nukes.
The shadow war USrael has been conducting for several years has moved from the shadows into the full light of day. We declared war on Iran Dec. 31, when Obama signed the NDAA which included sanctions on Iran’s oil exports. It appears that USrael wants regime change in Iran with Obama pushing for regime change utilizing sanctions before opting for a shooting war. Sanctions – in military parlance, “softening the target” – take some time to have the desired effect. Since Iran has acquired some friends around the world – BRIC – it would behoove USrael to tamp down the war rhetoric. I doubt that Obama wants to go to war now because his eye is on the Nov. election. However, USrael is still looking for a casus belli as they attempt almost daily to provoke Iran into responding to our warmongers. War before Nov.? Not likely. Possibility of a miscalculation? Very high. Oct. Surprise? A possibility. Their flirtation with war is absolutely reprehensible and they need to come to their senses and realize the fate of this planet lies in the balance.
I understand why you’re asking the question, Mason, but it’s my belief that Obama and his cronies have entertained zero thoughts about him not being elected.
Consider that the man has given absolutely everything possible to those in the financial sector, the military profit sector (both arming and rebuilding), those who want complete American hegemony, private armies, increasing privatization of our educational system, wars on whistle-blowers, and tra la la…what more could the Oligarchs ever want in a President, srsly?
If the vote is close, which I doubt, representatives of those groups will likely make sure he wins in any of the many ways open to them.
I quite agree, and the modest proposal of rendering the poor down to their essential fats and oils would find many, today, who would applaud its apparent sentiments.
As a society, not only do we no longer “do” nuance, satire and irony have find no appreciation at all.
Such “flaws” as you may possess are no different from my own, I merely type the damned stuff, count to ten, and start over again.
Often this renders me, apparently, less stoopid in the eyes of others, and seems to suggest that it takes a great deal to really ruffle me feathers.
All balderdash, of course.
Quite.
Remember to floss.
David
Kinda my thoughts as well.
To be clear, when I read these words of yours, doremus, it reminded me a little of the legal rule that if the defense were to bring in an assertion that hadn’t been previously introduced, prosecution then has the right to examine it further, or provide new evidence to refute it:
“You defamed my character when I have striven so very diligently to stand up all of my life for the underdog and the poor and the common man, of which I am but a simple example.”
As long as those underdogs aren’t Germans, all of whom you wish had been eradicated off the face of the earth. Yes; I realize you don’t consider those civilians innocent or ‘underdogs’.
Hey Masoninblue, I don’t know if you’re a Bruce Springsteen fan but you might want to check out this article in The Guardian about his new album coming out Mar. 5.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2012/feb/17/bruce-springsteen-wrecking-ball
Namaste
Bravo… I am gladly mistaken
The reason I brought it up is because I noticed in your diary that you advocated for everything except the most imporatant part. WE HAVE TO STOP VOTING FOR THESE CROOKS.
There is a growing number of Americans who can think for ourselves and who refuse the brainwashing. But some of us seem to be a bit shy about speaking the obvious truth. NOTHING will ever change until we stop voting for these Democratic and Republican crooks.
In the last election I did not vote for a single Democrat or Republican. I voted for Independents [not affiliated with any party], Green Party and Reform party. Where I had no choice I wrote in a candidate. I intend to do the same in this election. I refuse to be duped into voting for corrupt criminals.
I am a proud lifelong liberal/progressive and a former Democrat who re-registered as an Independent. I can think for myself and I REFUSE the brainwashing.
If anyone still belongs to the Democratic or Republican partys I highly recomend re-registering as an Independent. Anyone who belongs to either of these totally corrupt organizations is activly participating and encouraging corruption… and is dumbly doing exactly what the 1% and those who have corrupted our government want them to do.
Once again… congratulations on being able to think for yourself. Keep speaking out.
And If I might add… I agree with you about Obama going to war in an attempt to win the election.
Virtually everything that is happening is pointing in that direction. We have criminals and scoundrels running our country and they are willing to do anything to maintain power.
Thanks for bringing this subject up.
Awesome, eh??? Kinda hated to see the Boss mumble about O doing ‘okay’, but…guess ‘on the sidelines’ is better than something else. ;o)
No matter how much he has caved to their desires, they always demand more.
Jane Stillwater posted a link in her diary earlier today to a FOX News report that, as she put it, “declares war on Iran.”
If this is anything like the so-called news reporting of the other lamestream networks, and I understand that it is, the millions of people who get their news from watching these shows cannot help but be influenced to think that Iran is reeling out of control and must be stopped for the common good, no matter the cost.
A concerted effort is underway to prep we the people to enthusiastically support a war against Iran and I do not doubt that Obama is being pressured to attack Iran.
I do not know where he really stands on the issue. Sometimes he seems against it; other times he seems for it. At no time has he declared unequivocally that war is not an option. For this reason, as Bromwich points out, we continue to drift toward war. Netanyahu uses Obama’s waffling to maximum advantage nailing him ever more tightly into the war coffin.
Maybe Obama really wants war, but he is afraid to come right out and say it. Maybe, as in health care, he wants to be forced to do what he secretly wants to do so that he can continue to pretend to be progressive and blame the mean Republicans for forcing him to do bad things. Whatever his true intent, I have no doubt that he will go to war sooner or later to avoid being labeled by right wing and the Republicans as soft on defense and anti-Israel.
I doubt if the sting has faded. I refer to the sting that he received from watching the members of both houses of Congress in joint session give far more standing-Os to Netanyahu than they ever gave to him.
Would he go to war to assure victory in November, if the Republican candidate for president and the media are calling for war and criticizing him for not defending Israel and our freedoms?
I fear the answer is self-evident.
Totally agree about Alan Dershowitz.
I would love to agree with your last sentence… but unfortunalety history has shown that that is exactly what needs to happen. Standing at the gates of Hell is the only thing that will motivate most people to act.
Great diary.
Only have a sec right now; but:
http://my.firedoglake.com/wendydavis/2012/02/17/blue-eyed-blondes-sell-war-it-doesn%E2%80%99t-get-any-uglier-than-this-fu-diane-sawyer-raddatz-et-al/
and
http://chris-floyd.com/component/content/article/1-latest-news/2216-breaking-the-glass-beyond-the-cataloguing-of-imperial-evils.html
Thanks, billyc.
Yes, I am a Springsteen fan and I will check out the tunes, but I have to say that, like Wendy, I too am disappointed with his comments about Obama. Sounds like he was really pulling his punches to avoid creating a controversy and that appears to be inconsistent with his music.
Nevertheless, I pledge to let his music speak for itself.
Namaste.
Thanks, Wendy.
I’ll check them out.
“Yes; I realize you don’t consider those civilians innocent or ‘underdogs’.”
Do you?
Recommended!
Glad you brought this link over “here”, wendy.
Time (past time, in fact) to stop simply reacting to the outrages and to move the message to the next levels.
DW
It was doremus’s comments from my thread I posted above I’d wanted you to see. They belie what he’d told you, and ferociously. IMO, you apologized…in mistaken belief that he was the person he told you he is. Not.
With your response to Wendy you’ve given voice to a fear that I have had for quite a while. I believe you are correct. Another fear I have is that the warmongers have not considered the “ricochet effect’ – aiming at Iran we end up shooting ourselves. Those advocating war don’t understand that a war with Iran could cause the downfall of the American empire, eradication of Israel, go global and cause irreparable harm to millions of people. Too many nightmares for me to wrestle with!
Then who is doremus, wendy?
I ask that you read my response on Scarecrow’s post, that you might understand my reasoning for seeking common ground with doremus.
Then, if you feel that I need to know more, about who or what you understand doremus to be, I would truly welcome your insights.
DW
Balderdash squared!
Your pity for the butchers and your apparent silence for their victims, unless they are Germans, speaks volumes of your failure to truly understand the depth and scope of the horrors of WWII.
Es ist eine Schande Sie sich nicht an die Grossenordnung des Problems zu verstehen.
You are absolutely correct.
I must amend my comment.
You are not fucking nuts, just abysmally ignorant.
Books will remedy that issue, give it a shot.
Concur with your viewpoint(s) and comment billyc –
There is a history of what WashingtonDC has done and imposed on Iran and the Iranian people — a history that is knowable and which does not reflect favorably on American conduct in/around Iran post WW2.
American Empire post WW2 picked up where the British Empire left off in ME affairs or Asian affairs. What London and WashingtonDC were so adamant about Tokyo and Berlin not doing during the 20th century they both did/do as imperial powers repeatedly.
Americans have been largely Hollywoodized as to being the “good guys” of WW1,WW2 and post WW2 20th century history. The run-up to the attack on Iraq in early 2003 by WashingtonDC was purely driven by subversion of truth,fact and motive. But seeing how this took place while G.W.Bush(R) was POTUS the Ds in WashingtonDC did a dance of politics of public opposition if convenient and closed door meetings out of public view of letting Bush and Cheney do it.
Now as Mason describes above a D Party run WH is willing to perhaps send to death well over 100,000 Iranians to grease Obama WH desires for winning the WH again in November 2012.
The political depravity of this however escapes so many Americans who as Glenn Greenwald in recent days as exposed very well are well into the Hitlerian tactic of shoveling propaganda and setting up false premises and ways of thinking to take all Americans into another Attack Iraq debacle.
Americans who let Barack Obama do an attack on Iran and then fall lockstep into supporting him doing it because he is a D and not a R are the worst of hypocrites. Americans have become the WarBastards.
Yep. Abominable, isn’t it?
And when you vent your hopes that anyone (and I’ve seen you do the same before) that they fuck themselves until they have a heart attack and die…I draw a line in the sand, doremus, and submit that you are hopelessly irredeemable, at least at this point in time. And no amount of history or academia can provide a person with a conscience.
“…and submit that you are hopelessly irredeemable, at least at this point in time. And no amount of history or academia can provide a person with a conscience.”
Yes, there are many whose absence would not diminish the world one iota. Fortunately, I have not met any of them on FDL.
I do concede that I get carried away emotionally sometimes, but I actually pick insects from my path so as to not harm any living thing. Nazis, well that’s another matter: it comes down to how you define living.
And your concept of redemption? Vague at best, meaningless at worst. Sounds like religious nonsense: the operative word is nonsense.
And of that sly creature a conscious? Who among us is so wise as to be able to balance the soul of another against the weight of a feather as did the ancient Egyptians in their death rituals for acceptance to the afterlife?
It is surely not I.
I will leave that exercise for those who fancy themselves a minor deity and know the mind of ‘god’.
You’re turn at bat slugger. Let’s see how far you can hit the ball before I catch it and throw it back for an out at home plate.
Something else to consider.
Let’s remember, it’s only Repuke presidents who lie/blunder us into wars who are respected. Dems are “weak” and “soft” no matter what they do.
I think Obama is smart enough to know a war on Iran would be ruinous to both him and the US, and is resisting with all his might. Picture $10 a gallon gas, half-empty supermarkets, and a scared, pissed-off populace come November.
I think we’ll have this war precisely because Bibi finds Obama an insufficiently respectful punk and wants him gone. I truly believe this is the only reason.
Might I ask, doremus, why you persist in your “righteous” anger?
I determined that your emotions had quite got the better of you in our earlier exchange.
However, you seem, to me, to perceive honest difference of opinion or compassion different to yours as “fair game”.
Conscience is the responsibility of each and every one of us, and there is no foul in seeking to appeal to the conscience and better angels of others.
Yet you persist, overmuch, according my sense of perspective, in what amounts to relentless emotional attack.
To be clear, I am not attacking you, nor your integrity as a human being, I am, however, suggesting that your behavior towards wendy, who is a much-respected and very valued friend of mine, is not reflective of such respect for other human beings as the last comments between us led me to consider that you held near and dear.
I note that you have 21 friends listed, here at FDL, and that among them are friends of mine whom I respect, appreciate, and honor for their demonstrated humanity, courage, and intellect.
I offered you my apology for misunderstanding or misreading your comments on this and another thread, assuming that I had offended you unreasonably and unfairly.
You apologized to me for taking me to task in what you admit was emotional and over-the-top “language”.
I hope, then, that you will not take amiss my suggestion that you might seriously consider ceasing and desisting the “practice” of this “business” of outraged response, of latching onto your annoyance and mangling any “points”, which you consider that you are making, beyond reasonable limits and rational self-constraint?
The field is yours, “play” my comment as you will.
How you choose to do so … will determine my future responses to you, your comments, and what you have professed your philosophy to be.
DW
One attack scenario: “Someone” launches a drone strike on alleged Iranian nuclear weapons sites. Civilian casualties are minimal. No invasion of Iran occurs. It’s over in an hour. The drone has no identifying marks and takes a route that hinders tracing its launch point. Iran declines to attack US fleet in Strait of Hormuz because of certainty of retaliation and likelihood of defeat. Obama is all smiles.
In other words Iran is a major thorn in the side of Israel’s plan to (little by little) take over ALL of the Palestinian land. Which was there plan from the get go.
And a neutered Iran makes the House of Saud and Jordan and (possibly even Syria) a lot more secure.
I don’t think Obama will attack Iran before the election. First, because Rs are making such a botch of their campaigns so far and look so extreme that I don’t believe he will think he has to that in order to win. Second, I think we have to recognize the likelihood of a collapse of the Eurozone and the Big Banks here being driven into insolvency again. If that happens Obama can take the banks into resolution and take them out of politics. He can also then get money flowing through the Government-run banks to small business almost immediately, and also place great pressure on Congress to respond to an economic “crisis”, through more stimulus and deficit spending. Then his political position could get very, very strong here quickly, and again the Rs could not hope to beat him, whether the Israelis are angry at him or not. Will he do any of this if the Eurozone collapses?
I don’t know, but if we assume that he’d be willing to start a war to save his political skin, then why wouldn’t he take down the big banks to do so? It would be easy to do if they were on the brink again, and the Rs could hardly complain since so many of them have been fulminating about his and Bush’s bailouts of the Banks and, of course, the auto industry.
In sketching out this possible scenario, I’m well aware that if Obama would not do these things unless he were under extreme pressure. But, Mason, you’ve conjectured that he would start a war to ensure his re-election; so if faced with a choice between giving the Rs a very strong campaign issue against him if does another bailout; or taking the banks and Wall Street down, then why wouldn’t he do that, in order to get re-elected?
I’m dead set against war with Iran, but how does it turn into WW3?
On the internet, you are what you present yourself as, Doremus. And you presented yourself as a cheap, shallow cynic.
Arg. I spent some time listening to ‘Wrecking Ball’ and ‘We Take Care of Our Own’ since I commented.
Sadly, the latter fails, imo, and reminds me of a needle stuck in a vinyl LP’s groove. None but the most minute chord changes here and there, the same melodic theme over and over, and it never comes to any dramatic bust-out that’s been a hallmark of his.
‘Wrecking Ball’ gets to the anger, but I kinda wish he knew about the concept of Broken Social Contract in lieu of ‘American Dream’, but…then I wish he hadn’t glorified the assassination of Bin Laden, either, and knew WTF he was talking about re: The Wars Ending. That said, again the recurring musical themes were present (Badlands, Born to Run, etc.), familiar, making you hope that some grand things gonna bust out…but…back to ‘Give it all ya got’.
And I really wanted them to be great.
I like your POV Larue and I wish I could believe that saner heads will prevail. I too am of the opinion that a war with Iran will not just be the end of the Middle East. They have three times the population and area of Iraq and haven’t been living under UN imposed military sanctions, (as Iraq had for over a decade before Bush attacked) and we couldn’t win there despite trillions of dollars, (remember how it was going to “pay for itself”?) and at least hundreds of thousands of, (mostly Iraqi), lives. Then there are Russia and China of course, both of whom vehemently oppose an attack on Iran and both of whom are capable of starting WW III unilaterally. A war with Iran will be suicide for the United States and Israel and a true crime against all humanity. That said, I just don’t believe saner people will carry the day. At this point it would be relevant to recall the words of Albert Einstein who said that “I don’t know what WW III will be fought with but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones”. I’m not optimistic.
Well said, Margaret.
And Einstein’s words ought to be made familiar to all.
The “endless war” is also being waged against reason, tolerance, and understanding. And that is the truth, which is, always, the first victim of the blood-lust of war …
Saner heads, will, as occurred in the sexed-up, run-up to the mindless war in Irak … the consequences of which war have not even been begun to be honestly tallied.
DW
See Margaret’s comment @ Feb. 19, at 7:13 am, SqueakyRat, she has laid it out, most succinctly.
DW
What may be relevant in this discussion is what happened when the newly elected president ended up giving the generals what they wanted re the surge in Afghanistan. It’s been reported he’s gained confidence and the dynamic has changed with his taking control vis-a-vis the Pentagon, but this time he’s dealing with other powerful forces who want a war with Iran. Flint Leverett’s take is that his lack of leadership will result in a U.S. war with Iran. Masoninblue, looking at Obama’s nodes, they would support Leverett’s assessment.
http://www.raceforiran.com/how-by-not-leading-obama-will-lead-us-to-war-with-iran
Response to DWBARTOO @ 7:53 p.m.
Fascinating, simply fascinating!
After your final comment at the above time I went back and reviewed you statements to me regarding my straightforward question to masoninblue about Israel’s fears of Iran, and let me repeat that statement for purposes of illustration:
“Are Israel’s fears of a nuclear Iran justified or justifiable?”
My question was simply stated without the slightest trace of rancor or emotion or self-righteous anger.
Now, allow me to quote your responses to that statement:
“Frankly, doremus, I overestimated both the depth and the breadth of your compassion and understanding.”
Some might consider that an unwarranted, self righteous, unprovoked, ad hominem attack.
Or,
“It is sad you’ve so little to imagine or to live for.
Or,
“You’ve my continuing condolences for possessing such a bitter and meager grasp, such a warped, unhappy, and curtailed sensibility.
DW”
And again,
“Might I ask, doremus, why you persist in your “righteous” anger?
I determined that your emotions had quite got the better of you in our earlier exchange.
However, you seem, to me, to perceive honest difference of opinion or compassion different to yours as “fair game”.”
Gee, it might appear to a disinterested party that it is you who struck the first blow. It is you who went on an unwarranted attack without provocation.
And why did you attack?
Because I dared to ask a question you did not like?
Because I might dare have a difference of opinion?
Because I might not fit into your idea of what a liberal should think?
Because I am not part of the anti-Zionist, anti-Israel ‘good guys club’ at FDL?
And Ms. Davis’s comments? That’s between us.
So, now with that said, I not only detect a degree of hypocrisy in your summary remark, but must question the validity of your following statement:
However, you seem, to me, to perceive honest difference of opinion or compassion different to yours as “fair game”.”
And with all of that said, I will always save room in my foxhole for you, differences of opinion and all.
Peace be unto you David.
Mason,
I’m very late to your post but here are my thoughts.
I think Obama has already started war with the use of Drones and Black Ops in Syria. Syria, being one of the allies to Iran which Isreal also has deep hatred for. Obama may not be discussing this openly, but as you and other have said above, if Isreal wants it, they will get it.
I didn’t think Obama would want another term after the hell ride he has had in this first one. However, he has gone very lightly on the banks and those war profiteers. In fact, he has sent his campaign director to tell the monied elites he will go light on them in order to get campaign cash and support.
Isreal is pushing from all sides and spectrums to go to war and will officially start it themselves so to speak, but many of us are reading news outlets that are far from mainstream. We already see advancements going through Syria and it is not looking good. Margaret is very exact about this being the beginning of WWIII. Those nations that are currently just appeasing the US will turn if we support Isreal in wiping out Iran. China and Russia both have viable trade with Iran and depend on the oil. It will be another war of the world.
“And you presented yourself as a cheap, shallow cynic.”
Mr./Ms. Rat:
Opinions are like assholes: Everyone is entitled to one.
No, they aren’t ‘between us’ when they are on a public diary. Not were yours to my friend DW; I could let yours to me stand, but not those to him. Now, not even those you *made up* about what I wrote should be allowed to stand without correction.
1. That diary was about the firebombing of Dresden. IMO, there was no need for me to go on and on about the evil Nazis unleashed. I fully mentioned my personal connections and immersion in holocaust literature, as well as early Zionism are fully represented in the comment stream; I know you read it all, thus…your motives for this claim are highly suspect, and I resent them.
2. Not all Germans were Nazis.
3. No children are Nazis.
4. Bombing civilians is terror-bombing, as was reported by Reuters at the time.
5. This strategic bombing (read: purposely done to civilians to achieve some arcane results or other) led to the ‘strategic’ bombing at Hiroshima and Nagasaki, and Allied, now US/NATO bombing, drones run amok, etc. today.
6. If a nation’s citizens are all culpable for the military actions (not to mention economic terrorism) dictated by their leaders, since they either elected them or did not stop them from executing those horrors, then by your lights WE will deserve it when ‘they’ come for us.
7. ‘Conscious’ is not interchangeable with ‘conscience’.
8. Your (not ‘you’re’) baseball metaphor made me laugh; thanks at least for that. Now you can go play by your lonesome; I’m ‘out’.
As far as your erudite German: ‘It is a shame you are not on the scale of the problem to comprehend.’…I’ll just allow that diss to stand on its own, thanks.
And Mason; sorry this all happened on your diary, but apparently it was necessary, and most folks have worked right around all our issues. Congrats to those good and focused souls, LOL!
As you will, Stan.
I extend that same peace unto you.
‘Tis clarity I seek, not lock-step agreement, although my sense is that we already share both broad and deep agreements …
However, I do wish that you might consider tempering your reactions to others, here, just a wee and tiny bit, and hope that you shall not take that hope amiss.
The fact that Mason and CS hold you in considerable esteem, doremus, suggests to me that your merits and virtues outweigh what I sometimes perceive to be your too-ready willingness to bluster. Which “willingness”, by the way, is very reminiscent of the behavior of a friend of mine who, though no friend to the warlike aspects of the Israeli government’s current “leadership”, has taken considerable pleasure, over the years, in appearing to take and hold “positions” which quite aggravate those who see Israeli government behaviors to be dangerous and NOT reflective of a people who should know, by virtue of their own experience, that it is not brutality which ultimately wins the better day and sustained existence, but abiding patience, humanity and the willingness to wage unrelenting peace.
Might that peace we share between us become the essence of what we all would seek to share with any and all whom we encounter, at least, initially? Trust must, after all, be built upon mutual respect if not appreciation, and that respect, if it is to be meaningful, must be premised not upon a ready willingness to engage in violence but a continuing willingness to refrain from violence, to seek and wage … everlasting peace.
History demonstrates that hatred may be sustained through many generations … and that the “result” is not a good or uplifting thing.
How may things change, then, for the “better”, to reason, to tolerance, to understanding, and to peace, unless we, you and I, begin to make and live that change?
Peace …
DW
Hi, Joe.
I believe Obama is a true believer in neoliberal economic theory and he is fundamentally opposed to placing any restraints, legally or bracelet-wise, on what the banks and multinational corporations do. Therefore, should the Eurozone crisis render the banks insolvent again, I would expect him to bail them out again.
If that causes riots in the streets, I expect he will crack down on the demonstrators and call them terrorists.
He has consistently shown a pattern of behavior in which he takes the wind out of Republican sails by adopting their ideas as his own, but he never does that with progressives and their ideas.
I do not regard him as centrist and I do not believe he will do anything to try and please the left, even if that causes him to lose the election.
I must confess that he remains an enigma to me in many ways. His reluctance to take a firm and principled stand about any issue and his obsession with secrecy and hatred of whistleblowers together with his apparent fear of confrontation and dismal negotiating skills leave me wondering why he wanted and still wants to be president.
He only seems capable of pretty speeches, but he’s not even doing that very well anymore.
And when the going gets tough, he orders his advisers to agree to something and leaves to join his family for dinner.
What an inspiration!
Yes, I agree.
I believe the Iranians have strategically placed their uranium enrichment facilities in caves deep under mountains beyond the reach of conventional weapons, including the fabled bunker-busters.
For this reason, I do not believe your “one-strike scenario” is possible, unless Israel or the US uses nukes.
Russia and China are Iran’s principal allies and both of them have enough nukes to reduce our planet to a cinder.
When we know for certain that the Iranians are not enriching uranium to make a nuclear weapon and have no intent to do so, does it make any sense to nuke Iran and provoke Russia and China to respond in kind?
Would it make any sense to do so, even if they restrained themselves and did not?
And what about the slaughter of innocent Iranians?
The concept of “minimal civilian casualties” is impossible under these circumstances.
When you pause and think about it, I hope you will agree with me that even one civilian casualty is unacceptable.
Yes, Rachel and Fred are lovely, kind, thoughtful, highly intelligent friends whose good will towards their fellow human beings and manifest kindness have inspired and warmed many hearts here at the Lake.
They epitomize what the Lake it ultimately all about:
Friends sharing their thoughts and concerns.
Again, peace be unto you and may you enjoy the gift of life until the stars lose their twinkle and the clock of time has finished its race.
Namaste and ‘god’ bless.
As far as your erudite German: ‘It is a shame you are not on the scale of the problem to comprehend.’…I’ll just allow that diss to stand on its own, thanks.
A more faithful translation would be:
It is a shame you fail to understand the magnitude of the issue.
And in deference to the warm relationship we once shared, I too must say:
Aufwiedershn ma chere femme.
Der Vorhand ist auf unserer Reise durch die Zeit zusammen zu schiessen.
Trans: The curtain must close on our journey through time together.
Goodbye and ‘god’ bless you and your loved ones for all eternity.
Masoninsblue:
Regrets about mucking up your splendid essay.
Thanks and appreciated.
Mason,
Right up front: I was neither endorsing an attack, nor condoning civilian casualties, nor asserting that any civilian casualties are acceptable.
I was trying to predict what Obama might do regarding Iran, given all of the constraints and pressures that have been well described here and elsewhere.
I think the limited-strike scenario is the most likely event. The proponents of a military approach usually talk about an attack, not a war, although that talk could be part of the deceive-the-voters process. A quick attack is how Israel dealt with similar situations in Iraq and Syria. Israel was rebuked, but did not care. I don’t see the Chinese or the Russians sacrificing their populations, not to mention the entire planet, to protest or prevent an attack on a facility in a third country. A quick strike might set back a weapons program – assuming for the sake of this sentence that a weapons program exists – by a few years, and that would allow Obama to crow about being tough. He can and will claim that he crushed the Iranian weapons program even if the claim is false, even if no damage is done to the alleged weapons program by a non-nuclear attack. I don’t see the US using nuclear weapons because the opprobrium would be too intense for the US – and the US does not quite have the Israeli attitude about world opinion.
The biggest operational obstacle to a drone attack is that the Chinese know how to reprogram the drones to land safely at Iranian airports. US may use cruise missiles instead.
Thanks, but no need to apologize.
You will always be my friend and I will always respect you, even if we occasionally disagree, and I feel the same way about Wendy and DW.
I believe the four of us are old and wise enough to know that humans, including ourselves, have the right to express ourselves passionately about matters we feel strongly about and every once in a while we are going to step on each other’s feelings.
We should give each other the freedom to be ‘over the top’ in matters that touch the heart of who we are and what we care about. Hurt feelings is a piss poor reason to throw away a friendship.
We can and should continue to learn from each other.
I know that I would be very upset to lose any of you as a friend.
I give each of you license to piss me off when the occasion warrants and I agree to let each of you decide for yourself when the occasion warrants digging the Louisville slugger out of the closet.
Carry on.
:~DW