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On March 1st, Tom Engelhardt (TomDispatch) published an interview at MyFDL on Firedoglake of journalist Jonathan Schell by Andy Kroll. Nonviolent revolution was the subject matter of the interview. The article passed off the conveyor belt without comment, which I find remarkable. I do not believe it even made the recommended list, let alone being front-paged at MyFDL.
You can read the article here.
During the interview, Schell reviewed successful revolutions that defeated and in some cases toppled empires and totalitarian governments. In each case, beginning with our war for independence against Great Britain, he described how the outcome was assured by first winning the hearts and minds of the people through a variety of nonviolent means, including the power of the pen and nonviolent public demonstrations against authority. In many cases, for example the French Revolution and the Bolshevik Revolution, the majority of the violence and killing happened during the scramble for power after the governments fell.
JS: . . . Usually the cliché is that the stage of overthrow is the violent part, and the stage of consolidation or of setting up a new government is post-violent or nonviolent. I discovered it to be just the other way around.
AK: On this subject, as your book makes clear, some re-teaching is in order. We’re so conditioned to think of overthrow as a physical act: knocking down the gates, storming the castle, killing the king, declaring the country yours.
JS: In a certain sense, overthrow is the wrong word. If you overthrow something, you pick it up and smash it down. In these cases, however, the government has lost legitimacy with the people and is spontaneously disintegrating from within.
AK: As you note [in your book, The Unconquerable World], the Hungarian writer György Konrád used the image of an iceberg melting from the inside to describe the process.
JS: He and actually the whole Solidarity movement had already noticed how Franco’s cryptofascist regime in Spain sort of melted away from within and finally handed over power in a formal process to democratic forces. That was one of their models.
Schell’s point is that in order to win a revolution, one must first win the hearts and minds of the people and one cannot accomplish that task at the point of a gun. He calls Ghandi the Einstein of Revolution because Ghandi was the first person to realize and intentionally use nonviolence as a strategy to bring down an empire. Ghandi used that tactic, in effect paralyzing the British, on September 11, 1906, at The Empire Theater in Johannesberg, South Africa. Here is Ben Kingsley as Ghandi recreating one of the greatest moments in people power and the history of revolution.
Spring is the time for new beginnings.
The American Empire is rotten to the core and cannot be saved.
Revolution is an idea whose time has come
Spread it
Demonstrate
And melt it from within.
Cross posted from my law blog.
46 Comments
BTW, Jonathan Schell’s book is titled, The Unconquerable World.
[Ed. Note - 1 - The Andy Kroll diary under Tom Englehardt's byline entitled "Andy Kroll: The Unlikely Oracle of Occupy Wall Street" regarding Jonathan Schell was indeed compelling. Enough so that it was front-paged at MyFDL at 2:00pm Pacific March 1st. You currently may verify this by this link of the MyFDL pages for that time frame. http://my.firedoglake.com/page/13/ That may turn to page 14 in the link URL as other diaries are promoted.
2 - Given the compelling subject matter, care was taken in choosing the video to accompany that diary. The Editorial Staff on duty at the time found and included what we feel was highly relevant video of Schell reading Vaclav Havel. That enhanced content was indeed provided by FDL support, and not originally in the diary.
We understand your lament that "The article passed off the conveyor belt without comment, which I find remarkable. I do not believe it even made the recommended list, let alone being front-paged at MyFDL. "
The Diary was for a short time on the recommended list and we indeed front-paged it on MyFDL, using our best promotional efforts.]
Very true. But then this is the trick, isn’t it. But when most people hear the term revolution, they immediately assume the destruction of The American Dream™. In which they still hold onto with a deaths grip.
Thank you for the correction.
My fault for not knowing.
Please accept my apology.
I will use the strike-through feature to correct the text.
Mr. Englehardt’s missives often go unread or uncommented upon.
Don’t know why . . . but I ‘spose if Pepe Escobar, Juan Cole, or any of Raimondo’s tribe or the likes of Spengler and others from Asia Times Online posted here, they’d be ignored too.
Funny how that is amongst well read self id’d liberals n proggies.
;-)
Ya take them out of the US meme, and they glaze over like the GOP when talking points fail.
A lot of them are too busy trying to justify their jones for violence, especially where Occupy’s concerned. David Swanson’s had to put up with them quite a bit.
Not saying we don’t have a lot of work to do and a long way to go, but the recent poll before the crazed shooting incident that killed 16, including 9 children, already has Obama at a 50% disapproval rate and something like 60% want us to get out of Afghanistan now.
I’m going on memory with these numbers, but the poll has been discussed elsewhere on the site.
In any event, I live in Paducah, KY, which is in the south and everyone I know is struggling. They know the banks are stealing us blind and the government is aiding and abetting them to commit massive financial crimes.
I think people are starting to get it and they don’t have much to lose.
Especially students, who graduated, cannot find a job, and have staggering debt from predatory student loans.
Dry tinder awaiting a spark.
Hey, bro. Gotta light?
I appreciate the post Mason. I miss a lot of stuff here that I should pay more attention to.
Small note: I have never been fond of the video set to play automatically. Once I’ve seen it I don’t need it to restart every time I might refresh the page to check for comment updates.
I clipped this from the page that the mods directed me to: This was posted on Friday, November 26, 2010 at 7:18am, (presumably Pacific time), and promoted on Thursday, March 1st, 2012 at 2:00pm. Look at the times! This was originally posted on the day after Thanksgiving and this place is a tomb around some holidays. And none of the people who read at work would have been in the office that day. At 2:00pm, (4:00pm my time), on Thursday, March 1, I still had a half hour before I headed out the door to fight the traffic and run my errands and try to get home before 6:00pm. I can’t speak for anybody else but some of us were doing our, you know, lives at the time. Don’t be upset or incredulous that this didn’t go over with a bang. Sometimes it’s all about the timing. And please don’t think the worst of people just because this didn’t get the attention it deserves. That goes DOUBLE for you Larue! ;)
[We've asked Mr. Englehardt on more than one occasion to fix his personal blog calendar/clock here at MyFDL, as we cannot do it for him. The diary in question was indeed created and published by him on March 1st, and subsequently later that same day promoted to the front page of MyFDL.]
Thanks.
Wasn’t aware that was a problem. Sorry, but I don’t know how to fix it, or if it can be fixed. I provided a link to the video on youtube, but I don’t believe there is anything that I can do to disable the auto start feature at youtube.
There’s no real reason to comment on the professionally cross-posted diaries, imo, Larue since no one comes to answer back. A comment might offer more support than a rec, but…
I.e., zero comments doesn’t necessarily mean zero reads.
I don’t believe the article first appeared on Friday, November 26, 2010. That was before Occupy.
BTW, I think there is something wrong with the ‘promoted’ feature because I see that type of notation on a lot of current articles that get front paged at MyFDL.
BTW, I didn’t say anything about thinking the worst of anyone.
That’s copied directly from the page Mason. I see your point but that’s the date on the page.
Oh yeah. That was mainly directed at my good friend Larue. :)
Interesting point. It would be nice if one could find out how many reads though.
I dunno Mason. How does one paralyze a group that obviously no longer needs us. Especially when there are still a large number of people do just fine under them.
Thanks Mods. I was at work that day. I can’t speak for anybody else but my work time never includes web browsing time. When I’m on the internet, it’s to deal with work email and order supplies, etc. When I get home, if the weather is nice, I ride my bike for an hour. If the weather is crappy, I ride my stationary bike for an hour. For me it was timing. Just bad timing. Thanks for directing us back to it.
Check out the Editor’s note tagged to your comment. Apparently, Engelhardt needs to update the clock on his set of preferences and the article was first published on March 1st.
Imagine that. We disagree and we’re both right.
Ummm, yeah. Check out mine @16
I live in Georgia. Today while in a doctor’s office I was absolutely stunned by the conversation going on around me. It began with the day’s headlines of the Afghan slayings by the so called “lone gunman”. Before long every patient in the waiting room was joining in – a veteran of ‘Nam adding points about stress, PTSD and drug abuse – eventually coming around to the question of who is profiting from wars.(??? In GA?) And a consensus that not only should the troops come home, but that war should not be for the profit of corporations. (I swear, I was pinching myself to be sure I wasn’t dreaming!). They further took up the topics of rule of law, the financial mess, lack of jobs, .. and on and on. I was amazed. I cannot help but wonder if Occupy’s actions last fall/winter, despite little MSM coverage, didn’t have a hand in people beginning to venture forth and talk. And that is the first step to winning over the hearts and minds, me thinks. I actually left feeling hopeful.
And exactly how are we in disagreement? Because I don’t see one.
I see that here in Texas too. Undoubtedly the Occupy movement changed the conversation. The sad thing is the ideological conservatives are still convinced that it’s liberal policies driving the collapse. But like most conservatives, they wouldn’t know an actual liberal if one was say, eating lunch with them. Still it’s a wonderful sign that the conversation is taking place.
Mr. Englehardt’s missives often go
unread oruncommented upon.Edited for clarity, Larue…! ;-)
Well I appreciate being directed back to it as I missed it like I usually do with weekday content. So hat tip to Mason and the mods.
Today, a die-hard Libertarian and I found more common ground than possible differences, He’d advocated the ‘No Govt’ line, and, I’d argued that I do like Big Govt looking at our food and drugs, however, we’d both agreed that the foxes in charge of the henhouses need to be ‘processed meat’…! ;-)
LOL
A new use for SPAM.
You betcha, tho, I’ve never heard of Vixen meat being an ‘additive’ to Spam…! I’m game tho…! ;-)
No one REALLY know what goes into spam.
But it was liberal policies driving the collapse. Both parties are beholden to neoliberal orthodoxy. Liberal Bill Clinton was ever so happy to open the gates for market deregulation and end welfare as we know it. And of course we know what a sweet job Obama and his mob of Democrats are doing.
Who cares what a “real” liberal is? Most people react negatively to that word with good reason. After Obama, the liberal/progressive project is for all purposes damaged beyond repair. Attempting to revive a bankrupt liberal/progressive movement will not result in the cessation of people voting against their own best interests.
“Dry tinder awaiting a spark.
Hey, bro. Gotta light?”
Indeed. The polling data shows some remarkable discrepancies between the body politic and government policy on a range of important issues. The hysterical over-reaction to the peaceful OWS protests suggest to me the powers that be have seen the same data and understand the implications.
Throw enough sparks around and one’s gonna really catch and there’s no telling where it’ll stop.
Those who despair of change may be surprised. Culture is a chaotic system, things can change very quickly and unpredictably.
Don;t be absurd. People can call themselves anything they want but it doesn’t make it true. Hell, Lanny Davis calls himself a “Progressive” but if that’s the case, then I’m Mrs. Tutankhaman. Just because Bill Clinton identified as a Democrat doesn’t make him one. Nor does it make his policies “liberal”, at least not how I understand liberal principles. And nobody is talking about “reviving” anything. You have no idea who I am or what I believe. If you can’t be rational, please don’t attempt to engage me.
It seems to me that you’re positing identity as a basis for political discussion, as in “they wouldn’t know an actual liberal,” and “You have no idea who I am.”
That doesn’t seem so rational to me.
If Bill Clinton wasn’t a Democrat, what was he? For that matter, who is a “real” Democrat in your view?
A fantasy ideal is no substitute for facing the reality of what liberals/progressives have become.
This is also for WD and Larue and maybe others; I get Tom’s newsletter via email so I don’t read it at FDL or comment. So maybe a number of MyFDL participants also get his newsletter.
Maybe Mods could look at some sort of ‘tab’ function where people like Tom,DavidS,GregP,etc could post as a ‘professional’ writers section of MyFDL.
And it sure would, also, be super to see the text that is being responded when reading a comment.
If you wish to ignorantly and unfairly slag progressives with the broadest of bullshit brushes, I suggest that you just scoot on over to balloon-juice.com.
I didn’t say he wasn’t a Democrat, I said he wasn’t a liberal and that his principles and policies weren’t especially liberal. You’re conflating the words “Democrat” and “Liberal”. Know who does that alla time? Conservatives.
I’ve mentioned a similar idea to management, ubetcha. Even a separate list for the pros. Some post two a day now, which crowds the actual reader diaries down the list. Many authors work hard to create them, too.
For myself, I prefer reading TomDispatch at Tom’s house; there’s more contrast to the print, so I can see it more easily. As for Pepe, say, I just click into Asia Times, as I like to read Crooke, Chassudovsky, and others, depending on the content. Even Englehardt’s there some days. ;o)
Note: ATimes IS a hard format; dunno why it looks like it does. Taste? Web designer?
Given the importance of the subject matter here, I’d sure like to recommend reading Danps’s diary on provacateurs in addition, and if you have time, Jack Lindstrom’s concerning possible perils of the May 1 General Strike.
Oh, thank you so much for saying that. I was thinking the same thing, just didn’t have the stones to mention it.
Glad you mentioned the number of reads per article. I believe that is a standard option for all wordpress hosted sites. Crane and I have it on ours, for example. We can see the numbers, but our readers cannot. Of course, we also have the freebie option.
I’m sure the information is available back stage here. We can access some of the raw date by clicking on the site meter icon at the bottom of the page, but we can only see site totals and not reads/article.
I also post at the Smirking Chimp, which is not a wordpress site. If you click on Recent Popular Content, which is one of the available selections on each registered user’s Menu, you access a screen with a list of articles sorted by the number of recent hits (i.e., that resets to zero each morning). In addition to the title of the article, the author, and the number of recent hits, there is a column that provides the date the article was created. That is a nice feature because sometimes articles from weeks, months, and even years ago resurface.
For example, even as I speak, Tom Engelhardt’s article yesterday about Obama’s 0% doctrine is at the top of the list with 477 recent hits. When I clicked on his title, his article popped up on my screen and when I scrolled down to the end, I saw that his article has been read 500 times. The difference has to do with when the list was reset. In his case, it reset after his article had been read 23 times.
The site also has a list of recent blog activity titled Most Recent Threads. This list of articles is sorted by activity. Articles are added to the list when first posted and move to the top of list when a comment is posted.
Both categories provide helpful feedback to bloggers, which they can process and use in figuring out what to write about and how to write it. I cannot speak for anyone else here, but I find that information extremely useful and I wish we had it available to us here. I think MyFDL has a lot more readers/day than the Smirking Chimp.
I second the motion, although we can block-quote relevant portions of a comment as needed, just as I did.
A while back, we were in McDonald’s, drinking soda and using WiFi, and we heard essentially the same conversation, among two tables of older McDonald’s ‘regular’ morning crowd.
One of the things that I learned at the Chimp is that the number of reads/comment varies, but often there are significantly more than 100 reads per comment.
Articles get a lot more comments here than at the Chimp.
The number of reads per article ticker at my own WordPress site certainly helps me to figure out what people want to read, and what they do not want to read.
Also, there is a huge difference between the number of reads and the number of comments/likes/recommends. I lurked for a long time and never, ever commented, clicked like/dislike/thumbs up/down or recommend. This did not mean I did not read and form an opinion. Many folks simply do not engage in the options. So, a reads ticker is helpful.
I have been a fan of Tom Englehardt for years. In fact, I have a number of his books. I often read his posts at tomdispatch.com before they’re cross-posted here. I don’t always feel compelled to respond to them because what I have to say is nowhere near as important as what he has said.
I think you underestimate the importance of what you have to contribute. If nothing else, write a comment personalizing the point of an article. That is, how you experience it in your own life as walkinboots did up @19 and Crane did @42.
I know I’d like you to comment and blog more often.