unless you were compromising with yourself. I’m sick of hearing the "public option was the compromise". No, it wasn’t. You can’t compromise on something when it’s the only policy for which you have advocated. . The public option, not single payer, is the demand. A compromised public option is likely to be the compromise. Improved and Enhanced Medicare for All, or single payer, was never on the table. It was never part of the negotiations, thus it was never a policy up for compromise.
Imagine you and your spouse plan to go to dinner(for the vegans out there, assume the meat entrees I use to illustrate my point are tofu based. Let’s stay focused). You want steak(Medicare for All). Your spouse gives you two options, A) hamburger(Medicare-like, national public option), or B) beef jerky(limited access public option, w/out many market advantages of traditional Medicare). If you choose to drop your desire for a good steak dinner, and go all in for the hamburger, that’s fine. However, you have not negotiated with your spouse. You’ve made a conscious decision to limit the dinner discussion to hamburger over beef jerky.
This is how it went when advocates of a single payer system-turned public option advocates didn’t insist that Medicare for All be part of the national health care debate. They limited their compromising position between a national, medicare-like public option within the context of a market-based, for-profit health insurance system and a limited or even non-existent public option. Single payer was never on the table and thus could not be compromised upon. That was a strategic decision made by a good many activists, bloggers, and left-leaning advocacy groups. For my part, I could have settled on the Medicare-like, national public option, but I understood from the outset, that was the compromise. And, to make that compromise, one must argue for something more, ie to get a national, Medicare-like public option, single payer had to be on the table.



31 Comments







Didn’t the progressive caucus negotiate the right for a floor vote on single payer in September?
Yes, I advocate strongly for that vote, though it is at this point just symbolic. My point is single payer was off the table from negotiations from day one of the Congressional debate(Weiner got that in there far after the debate began). Many SP advocates became PO advocates and have since labeled PO the compromise from SP. That’s not possible. SP was never part of the debate, thus can not be negotiated upon.
has last summer gone down the memory hole? maybe i should post a comment with some history.
p.s. thanks for the diary and attempting to set the record straight.
Yeah, well, I still advocate Medicare for All, and I am in for the long haul, but as you and I know, PO was not a compromise for SP, since SP was not included in the debate. Activists should have demanded SP be in the debate even if eventually they would have been willing to settle on a Medicare-like option, because clearly without SP in the debate, a Medicare-like option will never materialize as the “compromise” position.
the single payer activists i know of did demand this and even made the same argument about compromising later. unfortunately they were shut out.
Selise, of course. I am referring to the A List blogs, the left-leaning advocacy groups like HCAN and MoveOn, etc.. They didn’t support the broader movement for single payer and let single payer be swept from the table without any debate. Then hopped on the PO bandwagon. And, then claimed it was a compromise from something they willingly watched be excluded from the debate.
Yeah, I don’t think you two are disagreeing.
yep
You’re not seriously suggesting that the Weiner amendment/floor vote constitutes putting SP on the table are you?
The floor vote on ditching it all and swapping in HR 676 is a symbolic feel-good effort. It does a smidge of good in getting a few hardy souls to go on record to say that all things considered, they’d rather have Medicare for All. But I doubt that even most of the CPC will go along.
I also fear that the Weiner effort distracts from the much more pragmatically crucial effort to preserve the Kucinich amendment, approved in E&L markup but pretty much subject to the mercies of Pelosi and Hoyer. That’s the amendment to allow a waiver to federal laws standing in the way of states creating their own SP systems.
You’re not seriously suggesting that the Weiner amendment/floor vote constitutes putting SP on the table are you?
I’m not suggesting anything. Perhaps I misunderstood what the vote was for. Is it not a vote on the question of single payer?
I think we can chew gum and walk at the same time. I welcome Weiner’s voice. he makes the best case for national public insurance I’ve heard from a Dem pol. He makes the arguments Dems should have been making for the last 30 years.
I agree with you, Kucinich amendment is vital.
Oops, meant this in reply to ralph.
It’s a vote to entirely scrap the tri-committee bill and ignore the Senate HELP committee bill and whatever comes out of Finance, and swap in John Conyers’s single payer bill, which has no more than about 85 co-sponsors at present.
I support HR 676. I march for it. But I know I’d have a better shot this year at winning the Lotto than seeing that bill pass. Virtually no hearings have been held on it, its advocates have not been included as speakers in White House-organized health care events, and Obama’s renounced it (despite once having supported it).
The floor vote on HR 676 is a nice-to-have, not a need-to-have, at least in 2009. And nothing worth having was worth negotiating away in order to get it.
Hi ralph, I’m not sure Medicare for All can’t still become a serious alternative leading to a compromise on a really strong PO. My argument is here, in my most recent diary.
this is the compromise i’d like to see: kucinich amendment
I agree there was never a serious push for single payer. Similarly, there was never a serious partner in negotiating health care reform. Does it matter where we started? If so, how?
Sometimes the rhetoric of debate can be more effective than the facts. Just ask the people who believe their rights are being taken away by HCR legislation with death panels. Is it true? No. Is it effective? When enough people believe it, yes.
What practical distinction are you asserting?
Well, there has been a serious push for single payer in the activists community, however, those activists, who are less wired in, Cal Nurses Assc, PNHP, member unions of the AFL-CIO and SEIU,etc., than the grassroots political apparatus, MoveOn, HCAN, DFA. the National Union leadership, the A List bloggers, were shut out, and the wired in folks abandoned SP for PO. They call this a “compromise”. But you can not compromise on what isn’t in the offering, ie PO isn’t a compromise for single payer, it is all they have advocated for. I think if the activists were pushing for Medicare for All it would have given room for progressives in Congress to negotiate a worthy public option. I’m also not convinced the public would not have supported at least a voluntary Medicare option. By setting out with only advocating the public option to the exclusion of single payer, the activists assured progressives in Congress would give up their greatest bargaining chip.
thanks very much. i understand why you can’t let the argument pass without correction.
Oh, and thanks for this post and for making this point. On the one hand, I’m always grateful when Jane slips in the point that the public option is “already the compromise.” But of course, you can’t really compromise on an asset that you’re thrown overboard before negotiations have even begun.
BTW, I see that the Matt Taibbi piece published in the 8/25 print version of Rolling Stone came online on Sept 3. Don’t know if anyone around here has remarked on it yet. It was the basis of this FDL post and thread with Taibbi, but most commenters hadn’t seen the actual article.
It provides an excellent chronicle of the current fiasco, and covers the same ground about the lack of “choice” in HR 3200 that selise, I, and others have been hammering on in these parts, to our occasional peril.
In fact, Taibbi seems to have resolved the question that never fully got answered in this roller-coaster comment thread, regarding whether individuals will actually be free to reject their employers’ plans and sign on to the public option:
re tabbi
libbyliberal has a diary: How Many Lobbyists Does It Take To Screw A
LightbulbCountry? (Taibbi’s Take on Health Care)imo her diaries are not to be missed.
re po (sorta):
have you seen darcy burner’s post at openleft? there is a bit of a discussion in the comments (i tried, but others did a better job). i’m hoping she will return to clarify the questions/contentious issues.
Thanks; I figured the article was flagged by someone. And thanks for Darcy tip; I’ll head over there after miniralphbon gets put to bed.
“SP was never part of the debate, thus can not be negotiated upon.” ; yup but leave it to the MSM to phrase it that way.
selise, thanks for the mention. :)
masslib, thanks for this. Appreciate your statement.
And my next question is, what if the hamburg or beef jerky is contaminated meat … a Trojan Horse-meat … has toxic bacteria (as in rancid opportunism for insurance and drug companies) and you get sick from it, very sick from it (and God, forbid, need American style health care.) (Good thing I am not bitter :) ).
Listening to Obama on tv news right now, saying “We have never been so close.” Pants on fire, President Obama!!!
I am calling Congress, especially House Progressive Caucus. They should have stood by single payer. They should have made the line in the sand. And Weiner even puts it in position again, the left actually has a Hail Mary pass here, and they are simply going to look on from the stands at those pathetic single payer folks tilting at windmills to mix metaphors. Not raise a finger out of EGO or cynicism to actually embrace principle right now. Do they trust that $2 million a day lobby money given Congress and Pres will rise above it all and take care of us as best they can with or without serious attention from us. And if we shut our eyes, and not object, it won’t make a different, anyway????? IF NOT NOW, WHEN WILL WE HAVE ANOTHER OPPORTUNITY LIKE THIS???? WHERE IS THE SENSE OF ANGER????
Taibbi’s article spells it out. And his last paragraph about the apathetic or how-could-we-be-still-so-trusting left, afterglow of Obama’s election high notwithstanding, that is, the responsibility of the citizens to protect ourselves and protect our TINY collection of champions in Congress like Kucinich and Sanders and Wyden and Weiner right now is sobering. We are like the Seinfeld clique, who is ultimately narcissistic and even ends up in jail for the stupor of passivity and narcissism. The Seinfeld generation of watchers, too cool for school, too passive for political exertion.
When I saw the new movie on Woodstock I was disappointed that it focused more on sex, drugs and rock and roll and the rep for anti-war spirit was given more to the shell shocked vet in the movie. DFH made a diff back then. Where is that outrage now? We have sold out generations with our passivity on health care. Obama has a nice smile. But he is selling us down the river.
Let him speak to the kids. Don’t let him give away more of the store to corporations in health care.
“And Weiner even puts it in position again, the left actually has a Hail Mary pass here, and they are simply going to look on from the stands at those pathetic single payer folks tilting at windmills to mix metaphors. Not raise a finger out of EGO or cynicism to actually embrace principle right now.”
Totally agree. It’s like watching a slow moving train wreck.
To Hubby: It’s steak or the couch! Your preference?
Thanks: Please pass the A1.
I refuse to give one dime to the purveyors of Medicide!
Hehehe.
wait, I’m confused – some seem to be saying that in a scenario where you are presented with a false choice, exclusively between two bad options – that there is an option besides just choosing the “Least Worst” and pretending to like it, out of crackpot pragmatism?
why should anyone keep voting for the Party of the Least Worst, then???
maybe fidelity to the Democrats exists on some sort of higher plane, and it is simply better not to wonder about it too much….
Well, we live in a republic. Third Party candidates don’t have the political apparatus to win elections, at least on the national level. But, look, Dems could go the way of the Whigs, Repubs could just go away…:) But a viable third Party will actually have to over take a national Party before it elects say a President.
My point really was activists are outside the system. They did not “compromise” on single payer, except perhaps in their own heads. If they wanted a Medicare-like option, then they need to at the least, agitate for voluntary Medicare for everyone under 65. Otherwise, the Left in Congress, who really do the negotiating have no pressure from the outside. They are left with the PO as their bargaining chip and they have no where to go but right.
For profit healthcare is the problem. You can’t fix the problem by more for profit healthcare. The only way is single payer, like medicare for all. Paying for it needs to be looked at not by more taxes, but finding new ways to pay for it. The Congress only knows taxes, and they are the people who are to come up with the bill.
The Republicans keep bringing up tort reform, the people need to read the Constitution. The Constitution guarantees us the right to tort, and they want to take away our Constitutional rights. They already have stomped on our rights by limiting awards and rights to a jury’s decision. Even Republicans should be up in arms over this, but the ignorant in their croud keep backing the talk of tort reform.
Tort reform would not significantly bring down the cost of health finance anyway. Agree with you. We need Medicare for All, and that’s what we should be agitating for. Even if those of us outside the system would settle at some point for a Medicare-like option for everyone rather than Medicare for All, you can not stand outside the system and call for the best Dem proposal within the system, because inside the system they react to pressure. If there is no pressure to go left, they have no where to go but right.